Hazbin Hotel's premise makes no sense*

[@jaguarndr]

Man adam showing up for the first time in the court room wouldve been awesome, but we wouldn't have hell is forever which is top 3 songs

[@howdy-573]

could have been in that episode instead of "Welcome to Heaven" who would have be a nice song if it was longer. Or "You didn't know"; I like the song but "Hell is Forever" is far better

[@Corrector1]

I'm actually a little disappointed that my favorite song ended up being in the first episode.

[@Jdudec367]

@@Corrector1 Great introduction at least lol

[@VaporwaveLover2000]

that song sucks i dont like his voice

[@Dr.Soda1]

As I was watching the video, an idea popped into my mind that solves both problems So…the idea with Emily being the first angel could work…and Hell is Forever could be targeted at Emily instead of Charlie Sort of like a “Emily tells Adam about the plan like an excited child, and Adam is like ‘lol, no. That’s not how it works”.

[@rubyred6608760]

If Vaggie, a previous exterminator, got her eye torn out and wings cut off by an angelic weapon, why didn’t she know that those same weapons could hurt the angels? I guess the writers just didn’t think about it

[@OnlyPedosCanTagMe]

She probably thought that only an angel could kill an angel, or, you know, she didn't want to think back on such a shit day, causing her to miss this key detail. We really gotta start thinking for explanations and stop giving up and looking at the writers. MAKE THE STORY BETTER USING HEAD CANON YOU MOTHERFUCKER.

[@Thatgeeky_Artist]

I'm guessing Vaggie as a character would've assumed that it was at the hands of an angel or something. That's the ONLY thing I can say. But agreed, this was all VERY dumb of Vaggie of all characters to not once theorise on this concept in the like what 3-5(?) years being in hell

[@RomoFett_]

She didn't think they could be killed. Injured is a different story. Plus, she probably thought that due to Lute being higher up, she was marked as fallen and able to be harmed.

[@rubyred6608760]

@@RomoFett_ That would make sense, but I feel like that would need to be like. Stated in the show somewhere. Because without confirmation thats just a theory.

[@Corrector1]

Yeah, I don't know what the logic was there.

[@lunarlunar9405]

is it just me or would the story work better if the vees were the main villain of the first season and the heaven being corrupt twist is reversed for the second season? this way we could focus more on redeeming sinners and making hotel campains in hell then worrying about heaven coming down so quickly to kill everyone just like that

[@suspiciousstar7547]

It would've worked out a lot better like that.

[@Corrector1]

I didn't mind the idea of a conflict with Heaven, but I do think it's something that would have worked better if it had been saved for later in the show.

[@lunarlunar9405]

@@Corrector1 me neither i love that plot twist, but that plot twist only works when its saved for later and not introduced in the first episode

[@MaryamFaisal-qi2ro]

yes!! Then we could get more development for Alastor. I desperately want to like him, all the materials of an interesting character are there, but he's mostly just been hanging around and acting creepy. I'd love to see more of his previous relationship with Vox.

[@axolotlfairy2473]

We should NOT have seen heaven in season 1- that RUINED it. Season 1 should've focused on the hotel and MAYBE they could've teased heaven at the end of the season

[@Birdyboys]

This seems to be a huge problem with a lot of Viv’s villains, a huge lack of subtlety. Valentino also stuck out to me, he didn’t feel like a real person, just a caricature of an abuser.

[@artistanthony1007]

Also for an adult show, he's not even that adult and do really anything that's legitimate like rxpe, most I've seen is he just licks Charlie and they are about to do things like rxpe but stop, Japan and France go beyond and actually do that stuff without caring about being cancelled, SAO does rxpe with Asuna from what I remember seeing, I didnt see the full thing but I know that it's far more hitting and the real thing.

[@lunarlunar9405]

@@artistanthony1007 didnt the show litteraly show angel dusst being raped by a man in a fucking pop song bro i think that was too much tbh

[@hubertberrum6242]

@@nevaehhamilton3493because much of those people are just like her, why else do you think they blindly like her shows and ignore their flaws?

[@hubertberrum6242]

@@nevaehhamilton3493 agree, thank you

[@problematicprincess6270]

THIS ! I used to be a fan of viz but she's really mean and stuck up she blocked me on twitter in 2022 bc I said in my own personal tweet "I don't really don't mind the need for redesigns but I don't have alot of hope for alastors new va because its hard to find the perfect voice for characters from an older time period." I knew that I didn't want to support or give my money towards her projects. Why should I support someone who doesn't even respect her own fans ? However, as an artist myself I do have alot to say about the show. I find viz to be insanely lazy with: 1 the bodies are always the same, if not for niffy, carmilla and mimzy they all blend together. 2 The voice acting isn't good especially for Valentino, Katy killjoy, Adam and rosie. 3 The angels are underwhelming and just look like pastel demons (wich would be fine if not for the fact viz has sinner designs in heaven. If their hell forms are based on their sins in life why wouldn't they be look like normal people in heaven? Also why does Adam look like every other demon? I'm so sick of every demon looking like an imp or furry. 4 adult animation doesn't/SHOULDN'T= constant swearing. It's lazy and it comes off as what a kid thinks "Adult animation" means. Cussing and dirty jokes don't equal maturity. 5 alot of things about the world building doesn't make sense. Adam ate the fruit and swears too why isn't he in hell? And why isn't sir pentious in his human form in heaven ? Why is he still a snake ? Viz is an incredibly lazy and entitled person, when you really think about HB/HBH isn't special or unique. Alot of stories are set in hell and some "hellborn royal" marysue oc.

[@MarxistMomentum]

This show had a perfect set-up in the pilot by having the reason for the exterminations being to prevent overpopulation with the implication that that wasn't the true reason. Having everyone already know that heaven exterminates sinners just because they want to removes all logic behind Charlie's plan, because Charlie already knowing heavens true intentions makes her look less like a hopeless optimist and more loke an absolute idiot.

[@lorddevilfish5868]

Yeah I agree that the whole “it was to suppress hell from rising up”, thing should have been removed from the first episode and instead kept the overpopulation excuse (only for that to be revealed to be a lie later). That said I think Charlie’s optimism still works (admittedly not as well), with her being desperate for heaven to forgive sinners, mostly because she still has this beautiful romanticized vision of what heaven is and the angels are seen as immortal (to her) before the end of the season. Still it would have been better if Charlie felt secretly doubtful and guilty about appealing to these bizarre angels out of fear and lack of hope. What it doesn’t solve is that Adam sucks as an antagonist and should have given her more pause about morality.

[@nevaehhamilton3493]

To be fair, many hopeless optimists are indeed absolute idiots. I even call people out for their optimism.

[@duncanharrell5009]

I hate they don’t ever bring up that… Adam’s right to an extent and Charlie doesn’t do a damn thing to challenge his viewpoint. Hell IS forever and is supposed to be an eternal punishment for the unrepentant. All the sinners Charlie keeps defending were horrible people in life and we’ve yet to see anyone in Hell who doesn’t deserve it and…. They did have all their life to try and become better. Also, Charlie isn’t even redeeming them! She’s only making them feel better about the here and now. Not once has she gotten them to admit to their past sins or brought them to Heaven’s embassy to say “This one has reflected upon his/her past sins and wishes to beg forgiveness from their victim(s)”.

[@draykohunter6805]

​@@duncanharrell5009 The lack of flashbacks, Or even mentioning the past, was surprising. It's sorely disappointing.

[@oddity7263]

unfortunately it seems as though the writers don't think Charlie is an idiot who needs to get her shit together if she wants to actually be effective, but that she's a quirky sad baby who needs people to coddle and praise her as she continues making the same obvious mistakes over and over again which not only harm hell, but also her friends. redeeming sinners is one thing, but in order for Charlie to succeed, she has to overturn the social structure and norm that has persisted for 10,000 years at this point, altogether. something which seems practically impossible because the angels are the most powerful in the universe, they will ultimately win.

[@Generalmituna8079]

For a show called Hazbin Hotel, it sure doesn’t focus much on the hotel at all.

[@ChocolateLoveKitten]

Add to the fact that we also didn't really see much or any actual attempts on sinners being redeemed AT the Hotel. Whatsoever.

[@heyimadino]

Like how Helluva Boss didn’t focus on the assassination business.

[@torpid5092]

It gives me the impression that Vivzie isn’t a very patient writer, she wants to skip to the big dramatic events that a normal writer would spend entire seasons building up to. It’s like if in Breaking Bad, Walter became a meth kingpin in episode one and spent the rest of the show just fucking around and swearing at Jesse.

[@Jdudec367]

It does a lot....like the hotel is the main setting clearly.

[@Jdudec367]

@@ChocolateLoveKitten We see attempts with Angel Dust and Sir Pentious.

[@Zixin-i5p]

Its more like Purgatory motel

[@tylere.8436]

In a way, but purgatory is for those guaranteed to heaven, but have to burn away the unclean things about them, not a matter of redemption. This is more of limbo than purgatory technically speaking.😅

[@tell-me-a-story-]

They should have used a world similar to Dante’s inferno. Charlie lives in Limbo since she didn’t do anything wrong, she was just born in Hell. That’s why she is naive to the real evil of most of the people in hell. In this world, redemption already happens in purgatory, but Charlie could move there to help people do it faster, since it’s taking them hundreds of years on their own. In this version, there would be no Heaven bad guys, there would just be the drama of her trying to help the people in purgatory. We actually never get to see heaven, exept maybe at the end.

[@audreythestargazer]

​@tell-me-a-story- That's honestly really neat! Damn, now I wish we got something like that.

[@dollzo]

​@@tylere.8436depends on your interpretation but yeah

[@professorhaystacks6606]

​@@dollzo I believe the above is referring to the official Roman Catholic stance. Eastern Orthodox and some Protestant groups have a different view (and don't always use the label 'Purgatory'). In most of those interpretations it isn't even a physical place but a process. Sometimes it occurs at the outer edges of Hell. I think that's from Dante, though I good be mis-remembering.

[@avivastudios2311]

By the way, episode one was the ONLY episode that was entirely written by Viv.

[@lolitamolita5354]

No wwonder it fell apart writing wise

[@batim_b5815]

wait viv didnt write that??

[@ineedausername9617]

Weak foundation makes the whole building fall.

[@Chickinnuggeez]

That explains the dumb jokes (I still like Hazbin tho)

[@sleepyjoe1942]

yeah that's because its a show. you'd be hard pressed to find any relatively large show that has the creator doing 100% of it

[@verboselocket3896]

The thing that peeves me off the most is the whole question on "what makes someone worthy into heaven?" Because does this mean Valentino can go to heaven if he felt bad for the crap he did to Angel and go to heaven? What about murderers, people who killed other people and destroyed their lives? There are literally cannibals and I want them to live? Like- the Angels go down to hell to kill sinners and that is seen as bad. But the Sinners kill other Sinners as jokes and thats apparently alright. Yeah makes total sense 👌 Also side tangent: The whole Vaggie sparing the life of a child was imo very stupid. Adam says she was one of his best exterminators. Meaning she litterally killed other sinners. The show wants me to look at the child and think, "Hey! Look! Heaven rejected a child! Look how bad they are!" AND THEY NEVER TOUCH APON IT. Whats making me from suspecting this isnt a Hellborn child? Your telling me Vaggie hasnt seen another child in hell when she has been exterminating? Your telling me she didnt know angelic weaponry could Kill Angels EVEN THOUGH SHE WAS AN ANGEL HER WHOLE LIFE??? I know that had nothing to do with anything but idk Edit: To people who are sourcing most of these points outside the show like on livestreams or tweets, THAT SHOULD BE MENTIONED IN THE SHOW. Thats bad writing if you have to get info outside the show and it isnt mentioned within it. Hazbin is not an indie show anymore, it doesnt matter if they had 8 episodes they could of fit more direct dialouge in those episodes, stop making excuses please

[@suspiciousstar7547]

Exactly. WHY should we feel bad for sinners and hate members of heaven for doing the exact same things? Exterminators kill bad people and that’s bad while sinners kill other sinners and it’s “comedy”. Yet, we are supposed to think Hell is better than Heaven, despite both places being corrupt.

[@grawlix-man463]

​@@suspiciousstar7547Well actually the difference is that heaven kills the sinners permanently, as in sent to the void basically, but sinners who are killed in hell regenerate and come back to life, shown when Velvette says her model was torn apart by Valentino and there wasn't enough time to wait for her to "pull herself back together." With the models body and limbs being carried in the background. Basically the reason why it's comedic when people die in hell is because unless angelic weaponry is used, then they'll eventually come back, while Angel's seem to literally erase their soul in some form. And no, I don't know why they didn't make it a more obvious point, kinda dumb to rely on off-hand dialogue for such important lore.

[@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq]

Vivziepop said “ what makes someone worthy into heaven” in a livestream

[@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq]

@@suspiciousstar7547in a livestream vivziepop said “ what makes someone worthy into heaven”

[@verboselocket3896]

@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq I dont need to have info from a livestream to tell me how your world works, thats bad writing

[@suspiciousstar7547]

I think they should have stuck with the idea that exterminations were due to overpopulation purposes instead of being for “entertainment for the angels”. If we already know parts of heaven are corrupt with people like Adam or Lute, it defeats the purpose on why people should redeem themselves in the first place. Especially knowing that they’re aren’t any set rules on how you get to Heaven or how you go to Hell, it doesn’t tell us how far someone should go in order to end up in either.

[@thatguy6482]

Eh that concept was just as if not more flawed than the Uprising one tbh. If they made hell and heaven why can't they just make hell bigger when required and if they can't expand hell they wouldn't be able to expand heaven. If they can't expand heaven moving people there would he pointless because they should already have to be culling their own population, unless of course only a very very small percentage of people get into heaven, which would cause two other problems the first being that no way are our edgy protagonists getting in the second being why would hell even be evil as we see at that point, if 99% of people go their it would basically just become earth, even if the majority of people aren't great they aren't exactly keen to let cannibals and r***ists run free without either permanently ending them or imprisoning them. Or I suppose there is the possibility that they can expand the afterlifes but choose not to expand hell and just exterminate instead in which case we already know they are evil and corrupt. And if they can't expand hell but can expand heaven, why wouldn't they be able to? Stolas can portal across half the galaxy to watch a star explode for a bedtime story on a whim but angels leagues above him can't find some extra living space?

[@Jdudec367]

It was due to overpopulation though still. Not really....most angels are good people. Well yeah....and that is for Charlie to figure out, how to get them into heaven.

[@Jdudec367]

@@thatguy6482 I mean for all the sinners in hell that is the issue...and it may have been expanded enough. Heaven doesn`t have a population problem and may be bigger really, nah they could get into heaven eventualy and with all the shit we see in Hell...it is clearly evil, not 99% go there but a lot of people go there and it isn`t Earth. Heaven seems to have a lot more space then Hell which makes sense with the nature of Heaven.

[@Xeorboom]

well I see it as it IS for overpopulation but Adam just does it for fun

[@Sappysappster]

Hazbin Hotel literally has a million dollar conceptand tagline (the princess of hell opens up a rehabilitation center for sinners in order to get them into heaven); something that's RIPE for small character interactions and emotional beats yet it completely ditches that,nullifies it in one episode (and also making Charlie seem stupid), makes it the sideplot, and focuses on HEAVEN/HELL WAR okay man lol

[@nexenzy5825]

THIS is exactly why me and prob a lot of other ppl expected. they introduced all these characters and the most we got was redeeming Pentious, Angel and Husk having their budding relationship, and the lil bits they have hotel scenes

[@blacksesamecandies]

IDK man, even the concept is weird. Maybe it'd work if Charlie was an angel or Charlie worked in the Purgatory sector or maybe the sinners/winners were still alive. The whole *concept* of hell is being condemned to it, that there is no escape. You have to sell the audience that.. -There is royalty in hell and there is this happy go lucky princess -She wants to save damned souls that treat her with nothing but disrespect and contempt from living in her... home? -Heaven (for some reason) isn't content with souls being in hell so they have to exterminate them on a yearly basis -Also there may or may not be an overpopulation issue -You can die TWICE (somehow) in this universe -There is no system in balance or any we are aware of of how heaven and hell works, it just seems entirely random -Somehow Hell is more powerful than Heaven for reasons...?? I think the concept is too nuanced for the caliber of writing given in the show. It just doesn't have the chops for the heavy world-building and twists it would require to tell this sort of story.

[@Sappysappster]

@@blacksesamecandies ahhhhh worldbuilding and good character writing Vizviepop's major weakness.

[@kapoopy2856]

@@Sappysappsterwhat’s saddening to me is that she actually is, in my opinion, a pretty good character writer, based on the Zoophobia comic. The characters are relatable and the conflict between the young adults actually have stakes. I think she’s a very good writer of coming of age characters, and teens, and high school dramas. The edgy writing fits there as the characters are all teens, but here in this show, made for adults, The character writing is a bit more jarring. Again, still just my opinion.

[@cassiushellsin6243]

Vivziepop is a good episodic writer, just not a good overarching-narrative writer. It just feels like she gets over-ambitious and ends up falling flat then complains about criticisms she made for herself. I keep on giving her the benefit of the doubt, thinking that she knows what she’s doing… until she responds to the critics, making me think she really doesn’t. Rinse and repeat.

[@noobsysys]

also the fact that in the beginning of the first episode we got “Heaven does the extermination so that sinners dont rise up against them.” *COMPLETELY RUINS THE PLOT* Edit: ty for 300 likes :>

[@TendoMendo]

Actually it doesn't have to. If hell's population gets to big, hell would eventually uprise. Both can be the case without the other mentioned in the same sentence

[@cakefrosting6451]

Actually what they mean is not showing this premise RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING. It can be revealed more like a mid-season revelation or “season 2” revelation. Shown at the beginning, it negates almost everything Charlie is doing related to the hotel, because it’ll come across as nothing more but complete utter stupidity, (despite being already told UPRIGHT by Heaven themselves, not say, Lucifer (who you are obliged to doubt because he is in Hell, there is bound to be a bias), that that’s why they do the extermination, and not “the character is trying to do something based off what evidence she has at the moment” part people know from various shows. This part is tried and tested across every show, and is required to build suspense and excitement for the plot the show clearly has. I don’t mind spoilers, but spoiling the “big bads” true motive from the beginning just destroys the point of Charlie’s actions. It also is why many ppl would say a lot of the episodes are “filler”, because they already know Heaven’s whole deal thanks to Adam’s loud mouth.

[@briasinterlude1755]

@@TendoMendoThere are no visual signs that Hell is overpopulated

[@OnlyPedosCanTagMe]

​@@briasinterlude1755because 16% of the fucking population got erased . . .

[@artistanthony1007]

​​@@TendoMendo Mate nobody in Hell cares about Heavan so that doesnt work, Sinners dont even get to leave Pride to know what other Rings are like or see the city they're in unless they can fly.

[@dragonempress8367]

You probably won't see this comment, but I redesigned and rewrote Adam to be a nice guy, who's pressured by his lieutenant to keep the exterminations going. He loves Charlie's idea, sure, but the exterminations are out of his hands cause of Peer pressure. It'd make much more sense if Adam was depressed instead of Lucifer, cause it's an angel who works day in and day out killing people! Killing is a sin! That, and they could use the ten commandments as a basis on how people get to heaven. Boom!

[@hubertberrum6242]

that sounds WAY better than my take of Adam in which he's just a Tarzan wannabe

[@christopherbravo1813]

First commandment-"You shall have no other gods before Me." that right there bars anyone who is not Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or *maybe* Zoroastrian from going to Heaven. Vivzie would never base her show's morality around obedience to God, because A. she doesn't believe herself B. she doesn't want to "offend" people who are not Christian, Jewish, or Muslim. I like your idea of Adam being a "nice guy" who hates his job-these are his KIDS for crying out loud-but technically it is MURDER that is a sin, and throughout the Bible it is made abundantly clear that slaying the wicked is not the same as murder. God does it multiple times, after all.

[@draykohunter6805]

​@@christopherbravo1813 It's murky and messy and ripe for character drama😮

[@christopherbravo1813]

@@draykohunter6805 as opposed to the show, which is only one of those things. XD

[@morcillachorizo]

Reminds me of Asgore tbh. Made a decision long time ago and doesn't want to continue It but can't dissapoint the rest of his ''citizens''

[@axolotlfairy2473]

The second viv decided to show heaven in season 1 ruined any potential this show could've had. If they HAD to have someone from heaven in this plot it should be emily- send her down to the hotel as an ambassador and have her bond with the hotel crew as well as slowly realize how unfair hell is and how corrupt heaven is. Make the courtroom scene the season finale or something

[@artistanthony1007]

I didnt have a problem really, the trailer only showed a very small glimpse of Heavan and Lute & Adam appeared to enter Pride and see which I was thinking especially with the Sneak Peak they go around and interact with few Sinners BUT DONT stay or change the Extermination date & time so there's still the imminent threat but with Viv, her ideas are just genuinely awful and doesnt get meaningful build up & pay off.

[@realdragon]

Imo it should have gone like this "Hey can you not exterminate us" "No can do" "We are trying to redeem sinners" "It hasn't been done before, we can't stop just because you think that _maybe_ it will work" "We've been doing progress with some of them" "Having progress doesn't mean they will end up in heaven. Redeem one sinner then we will negotiate otherwise start preparing for another attack"

[@kaliido_scope]

Another thing you didn’t mention is that at the end of the Finale, they rebuild the hotel anyway, even though Charlie should be aware of the fact that there isn’t a system guaranteeing people will go to heaven if they redeem themselves. Sir Pentious goes there after sacrificing himself, but none of the cast has any idea. What’s the point in going through the hotel thing all over again when there’s no reason to believe they’ll make any progress???

[@artistanthony1007]

You should be getting more likes because this is true.

[@davidkimpton6775]

Because now, with heaven off their back, they can focus on the hotel. It’s kinda hard to focus on redemption when you have an angelic army aimed at your doorstep

[@Jdudec367]

She still has to figure it out herself, after what happened with Sir Pentious though....if she goes to heaven again she will know it is possible and there is no denying it.

[@Jdudec367]

@@davidkimpton6775 That too actually!

[@dollzo]

​@@davidkimpton6775but Charlie knows redemption doesn't work. The angels literally say they don't know what it takes to get into heaven so why would she have any reason to think redemption works

[@lightjones9894]

I really did not understand the reasoning of Adam's character myself, he didn't need to be the Vivienne Medrano comedic humor style gag. Like he could've been wrathful at one moment and be positive at another but the idea would be he along with heaven are corrupt. Unfortunately, instead of that we get the smiling antagonist who is rather unlikable and is so obviously despicable to the point where you know that in this universe, Heaven is not the world Charlie should striving to sending people to.

[@OnlyPedosCanTagMe]

But like... Heaven was totally better than hell...

[@oingulonthethird1908]

Adam shows that there is something wrong with heaven, but that its not all bad. He kinda needed to be such an asshole so that it makes sense as to why heaven is an antagonistic force, while also not having heaven itself be all that bad, by making it that its one dude with a lot of power be the problem, instead of heaven in its entirety

[@batim_b5815]

he was wrathful at one moment it was when he was fighting lucifer. and lucifer teasing him really pissed him off. and im sure there are a few moments where he was positive.

[@sleepyjoe1942]

wasn't that exactly his character though? funny at some times and wrathful at others?

[@lightjones9894]

@@sleepyjoe1942 Positive doesn't necessarily mean funny. By positive, I actually meant nice, such as he doesn't cuss or acts rude in heaven(acts fair to everyone), but when he's out of heaven, he's very wrathful. How sleepy are you again, Joe????

[@Elysium4]

One of my smaller gripes is the sheer, unrelenting usage of curse words in the show. Yeah, I get it, they're in hell, they're not going to exactly be Molly Mormon or Jerry Jehovah when it comes to their use of language, but the reason Alastor was initially my favorite character was how little he would swear. He seemed in control of his emotions, what he let shine through was a carefully curated facade of perfection and self-discipline everyone else seemed to be lacking. Charlie is similar but in a different way. She shouldn't swear nearly as much as the other characters because she's naive, but she isn't stupid. Furthermore, if the angels didn't ever swear, it would get across that they're in a completely different environment from Hell, that they've curated their self image the same way that Alastor would have by keeping a hold on their emotions and speaking in a very reserved, calculated manner. In contrast, the use of course language would make a lot more sense for Angel Dust or Husk because that's just what their life is like and how they live, half of Angel Dust's vocabulary would be composed of sexual innuendoes and Husk would sound like a Sailor every time he opens his mouth. But, apparently that kind of nuance is lost on the writers. Absolutely every character swears like its casual. The Angels, Charlie, Alastor, they all have a mouth their mothers would torch with napalm and soap and it just... Kind of takes away from the character variety. Alastor seems less mysterious and in control of his emotions, all pretense that he's above the plebian's tongue dropped because why not? Charlie is supposed to be a lot more 'clean,' I guess, than sinners, but her language definitely doesn't make that clear. And could you really believe any of the Angels with the way they talk or behave would have ever gotten into heaven? They're the same as the sinners, only with a high and mighty attitude and permission to commit genocide. Giving different characters specific voice inflections, intonations, and manners of speech can make for some really interesting characterization and interactions, but it's diluted when everyone speaks the exact same way.

[@artistanthony1007]

Viv's shows are nowhere close to other adult shows, she has no right to say her inspirations are Bojack Horseman and South Park, I havent really watched BH but I already have the idea it's nothing like HH and HB, her writing is genuinely worse and just childish.

[@cosmok-1367]

@@artistanthony1007 Hell, not even the characters of Bojack Horseman swear that much! Fun fact, each season of BH uses the F bomb only once per season. And they only use it as a means to show that Bojack had messed up a relationship of his that can not be repaired. That's what makes the use of the F bomb so much more enjoyable, because it's use has a purpose!

[@Jdudec367]

@@artistanthony1007 They are worse but still are good. ANd I mean...no she does have a right to say those are her inspirations, both BH and HB have protagonist who are pretty flawed not good people who have to face the consequences for their actions and their past. Her writing isn't all that bad tbh.

[@Jdudec367]

@@cosmok-1367 What about South Park then? Are you just gonna ignore that?

[@sleepyjoe1942]

@@artistanthony1007 it was inspired by South Park, the key word is inspired. I could be inspired by the mona lisa tomorrow but it doesn't mean I'm gonna be the next DaVinci

[@LovesArt23]

BASED every thing you said YES AND OMG how is it literal random ppl can come up with FAR better ideas for episodes and emotional beats and character development that FEELS earned yet the creator of all this who went to the best Art school can't seem to grasp the basic form of story telling it truly is not hard (ok maybe a little but there's classes for this stuff hell i'm in one now just so I can get a refresher and have someone challenge me more) I swear the fans are the ones truly doing the work for this show they spent 5 yrs making the most interesting and super thought out ideas I have ever seen the show didn't do that the fans did and viv gets the credit like no the fan did all the work to make your ideas more, this feels like a group project but only viv gets the A while the fans get not super sure what they get but its something small

[@lorddevilfish5868]

Hi Lovesart cool seeing you here! I really like the show but I feel that some of that love comes from the community and my friends and I being creative. If I were to write Hazbin, I would have heaven lean into the more B E N O T A F R A I D, alien aspects both in appearance and attitude, lacking recognizable emotions, having strange goals, and philosophies, making hard to gage their morality. The conflict would then come from Charlie seeing how little humanity there is to her ideal kingdom and question whether or not what she’s doing the right thing if to be forgiven means she’s stripping the quirks and humanity of her friends. They could also play with the IMPlications that Lucifer is the most human angel and if hell really is meant to be a realm of punishment or if Lucifer is manipulating it because he hates himself for being prideful and different. But instead we get the most obnoxious character in both Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel to be the main antagonist.

[@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq]

It was supposed to be 22 episodes but Amazon said “ 8 episodes is enough “

[@cakefrosting6451]

It’s one of those projects where the person who is one of “the best students” actually sits back and lets the ones who are struggling in academics get burnt out doing the work for them. The worst part is that I ain’t an art student, but there is SO many movies in this lifetime that can properly show one, how this type of story is done. Viv could certainly do well with even looking up how to PACE a show, on Instagram. I’ve seen Seth Rogan stuff, and even his things before his craft degraded, have structure and still can make sense to the main plot. Viv’s one is she already abandoned the hotel premise she PROMISED the fandom about, and just wanted her slice of cake to eat it too. Seth Rogan is already not the best comedy has to offer, and it’s made worse when Viv cannot really time when to joke and when to be serious. Like Sir Pent’s death is probably a gag, does nothing to me, it’s like “ah fine whatever I guess”. And yet I’m suppose to feel very sad about it … the tonal whiplash is insane and is still continuing into her work.

[@lorddevilfish5868]

@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq Amazon is the ring of greed made manifest.

[@LovesArt23]

@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq I think they where hoping for 22 but got 8 if you look at alot of Amazon's animated shows they all mostly get 8 episodes a season and if all gos well they get up to 11 episodes for future seasons alot of streaming shows do this to avoid money issues if the show fails or they decide later they dont want to air it cause 8 episodes is less expensive for something you don't know is going to be a hit I'm sure if adult swim had picked it up they would have gotten the 22 episodes or at least 14 (plus you kinda have to take in mind every first season is super short due to that season being character introductions and world building most stories start around the S2 mark and tend to be longer)

[@vanilla8956]

I agree, "modern" writers have a huge problem with needing obvious villains. It feels almost like it makes them uncomfortable to not flash a bright neon sign that says "THIS IS THE ANTAGONIST!" over their heads. I do think Adam's personality could work if it was shown he was not like this when he got into heaven, and that living there for many millennia "spoiled" him, but they only left that up to my headcanons. Weirdly enough I actually think Charlie is a good example of a "strong female character" which surprised me because my biases against viv made me expect another rey skywalker. But then she can't help herself and needed to make her villain way too much of a strawman of her own issues with men and it just went over the line that makes that hurt the story. Someone should have just advised her to tone it back and let Adam have some rizz instead of shouting "MY GENITALS! I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WOMEN!"

[@cakefrosting6451]

Basically her tumblr sexyman are the heroes and the not tumblr sexyman are her villains, that’s what it is basically 😂😂😂

[@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq]

@@cakefrosting6451professor venomous is the tumblr sexy man but vivziepop said Jack skeleton is the tumblr sexy man

[@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq]

@@cakefrosting6451I heard the villian is going to be a female it’s not a male

[@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq]

I heard a female is going to be a villian

[@vanilla8956]

@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq Probably because Eve was drawn suspiciously dark and unmentioned. But Adam is the villain of season 1. I actually like his character but the dialog is pretty cringe in that first scene because it's trying too hard to make him unlikable. I've seen certain people on Twitter get quite upset when villains are sympathized with now a days, and end up overcompensating to avoid that without realizing that that's actually a good thing and makes the story more dynamic and interesting

[@karentookthekids1267]

The main problem in this show is that the writers are trying to push the narrative that Heaven is the problem, not the sinners themselves. Like okay, let's just ignore there are murders and addicts down there and focus on Heaven trying to protect themselves from uprising lol

[@realdragon]

Imo it had good premise if only it focused on trying to redeem sinners

[@SeanTanktop]

a sound critque. It is truly amazing how hard the fans of this shit will gaslight the fuck out of you like you're missing the point, when the show lost the point from the jump.

[@noobsysys]

I would definetely spend 50k on this video.

[@Pazzively-Aggrezzive]

Something that PISSED me off since episode 4 was the fact that this show had never mentioned the sinners’ actual lives. You’d think, if you were trying to redeem someone into heaven, you’d focus on the actions that got them into hell in the first place. Take Angel. If you’ve read the fan wiki/Vivzie’s posts, you would know that he was part of a mafia with his family (a web of crime, hence the spider form). But that is never mentioned ONCE (it has to be in prime video for it to count.). And clearly from the Mimsy/Alastor conversation in episode 5, they DO remember their lives. If mafia was mentioned ONCE, that would give Charlie (and the writers) something to work with. Okay, he’s in the mafia. Why? Was he forced to do it because that’s his family, or did he jump for joy because he got to hurt people? If it’s the former, could he have actually gotten into Heaven if his family wasn’t a web of crime? We’ve seen his lovely traits in the show. If the latter, he can work through those tendencies in the hotel. Flashbacks are also important to explain why a character is the way they are.

[@christopherbravo1813]

honestly, the Angels don't even *need* to kill any sinner that comes up from Hell. Lucifer and Lillith weren't dragged to Hell by their own sins, they were *banished* there by the Angels. All Heaven would have to do is cast the newly "redeemed" sinner back down into Hell, thus erasing months of progress and likely causing word to go around that Heaven will not be letting any of the sinners in under any circumstances. the whole "spawn-camping" idea does sound more like an Adam strategy, though.

[@okayyy423]

Dude I hate the show too but you’re taking this shit way to serious The story just uses the ‘concept’ of heaven and hell not the actual biblical depiction.

[@christopherbravo1813]

@@okayyy423 Wrong comment, but thanks for confirming your bot status.

[@okayyy423]

@@christopherbravo1813 I’m a bot for responding to a comment fairly?? Like dude what LMAO If you’re mad just say that, but I respectfully disagreed. You’re not entitled to not be criticized same way as the show is. As if said before the show just uses the concept of heaven and hell not the literal depiction in the Bible. It’s disingenuous and pointless to speak on the show from a perspective of ‘how accurate it is’ when that’s not the goal according to the creator. I’m just saying if you’re going to criticize a piece of media at least keep in mind of info such as that. People on this app are way worse and would probably attack you just for not knowing something as small as that. I’m just informing you dude. No need to get so mad 😂

[@christopherbravo1813]

@@okayyy423 I'm not mad. You are engaging in bot behavior by repeating the same arguments utilized over and over in defense of this show. Christianity is one of those things where if you're intent isn't to portray it faithfully, you shouldn't attempt to portray it at all. Vivzie's point would get across just as well if she created her own afterlife setting completely divorced from the Christian Heaven and Hell.

[@christopherbravo1813]

@@okayyy423 Also you made your argument on a comment I made which wasn't even intended as criticism of the show. If that's not bot behavior, I don't know what is.

[@jamg25]

I feel that the writers are trapped by their own fandom. Take for example Angel Dust. Angel Dust can never be redeemed and go to heaven, without been contrived as hell, because then the writer would have to state that Angel Dust's Drug use and Whoring is "bad", and that would not only offend the fans that project themselves in AD, they will also rage because AD would no longer be the same character they liked in the first place,

[@salahabdalla368]

Drug abuse and whoring is bad. The fandom is something else I swear😂

[@GiantGunt_EthanRalph]

Thats why i think they decided to go with the heaven/hell war over the redemption stories. The writers cant say that its the characters own fault for ending up in hell because that would call out a bunch of the shows fans (who like you said relate to characters like angel dust), so instead they make heaven evil/unfair so thats its not actually anything the sinners (i.e. the viewers) are doing that got them to hell. Its just those mean privileged "winners" keeping them down. (implying that those who got into heaven were just lucky and dont deserve it)

[@salahabdalla368]

@@GiantGunt_EthanRalph They could have made a simple story about sinners themselves realising how fucked up they are and make the plot all about charlie trying to redeem them and show them off to heaven in an appearance. The war arc was so out of pocket and didn't fit the original message of the series

[@avivastudios2311]

Your little rewrite doesn't fix all the problems but it is definitely better. I like hearing people's ideas to change this.

[@ratsandmice1612]

I feel like viv doesn't understand the true meaning of Christianity, and that's what really pisses me off about this show. Real Christians dont go around hating people for sinning, real Christians understand that they themselves are also sinners, and thats why they are Christians on the first place, not for beijg perfect, but for being sinners. Everyone is a sinner. And even if you dont believe in Christianity, if you do your research its not a horrible religion, its just that there are bad peoole who like to twsit the word of God.

[@wingandwang5634]

unfortunately, the ones who like the twist the word of God are the most common types of believers in every religion. don't be surprised when they're the ones getting criticized.

[@Ken_Paul]

So it wasn't just me that got angry at viv making heaven 'bad' and hell 'good'

[@batim_b5815]

@@Ken_Paul ok hold on who ever said that hell was good and heaven was bad?

[@Ken_Paul]

@@batim_b5815 hazbin hotel apparently

[@Ken_Paul]

@@batim_b5815 yeah I don't think you get it. :/

[@cesar6447]

Its funny is this the show that points out "the hipocrisy of christianism" when anyone who had 1 religion class in their life can say this is nothing like the religion, like... angels dont know the rules but in the bible the rules were written ON STONE and Helluva Boss confirms the existence of the seven sins... the 7 sources of all evil, the 7 reasons you get into hell, the 7 acts that closes the gates of heaven... Adam mentions that "the rules are black and white" but he doesnt know the rules?

[@christopherbravo1813]

it's kinda hard to make a show about Christian "hypocrisy" when your show doesn't even have *Christ* in it. Paradise PD and Family Guy both had Him show up, and their main focus isn't even exclusively Christian-bashing.

[@Magyarpatriot-dk4mi]

The show literally is just blatant blasphemy. Dont get me wrong you can write good stories based on christian theology like the Divine comedy or paradise lost, but the thing is those were written by actually competent writers. Hazbin Hotel twists christian moral guidelines to the degree that it becomes just a distasteful joke, a joke that is not even funny.

[@christopherbravo1813]

@@Magyarpatriot-dk4mi exactly!

[@mite3959]

It isn’t though, it’s just inspired by christian lore for the characters and setting, not an actual statement about the religion

[@christopherbravo1813]

@@mite3959 If that's the case then why bring in elements of Christianity at all? Could it be that Vivzie is in fact making a statement on Christianity-and a very negative one, at that?

[@lightjones9894]

The one that really baffled me was Carmela Carmine killing an exorcist and selling Angelic that also have the power to kill other exorcists but she doesn't rage war against The Exorcists before Charlie does, even though her and her daughters have enough equipment to give other sinners weapons to fight off The Exorcists.

[@0sophloaf0]

I think she said in her song that she didn’t want to start a war because there’s a risk of her daughters being hurt

[@lightjones9894]

@@0sophloaf0 That may be true but the War happened anyway and if Lucifer wasn't there, the main cast and the cannibals would have died and I don't think The Exorcists would have stopped at that point.

[@reflection6401]

@@0sophloaf0but There have been a one sided war since hell first began in this series

[@oingulonthethird1908]

Like zestial said, if they fight back, heaven might comeback with even more troops and kill even more sinners than before

[@thatguy6482]

Because it's made pretty obvious in the series that if heaven genuinely wanted to they could absolutely crush hell?

[@babyzegeek5435]

In all honesty, I think Emily should be more of a character that Charlie could interact with as someone that helps Charlie try to convince Heaven to redeem sinners Hell, if we're gonna do a whole rewrite, I would argue that maybe the main character SHOULD be Emily

[@annamcdowell4500]

Honestly, based. Emily is Charlie. Charlie is Emily. Emily is still a sort of daughter to Lucifer maybe before he fell, but Charlie is just a random demon presenting a plan. Secret angel twist that Charlie is an angel instead of Vaggie.

[@wingandwang5634]

this is exactly why i dislike adam. he may be a funny dude but his personality does not fit his role in the story at all. if the point of the show was just to be a comedy and nothing else, id be fine with his character being a dumbass. but no, theres lore and plot, what is this

[@randomguy56789]

That’s why early 2000s cartoons are better yeah that’s right I said it

[@batim_b5815]

why lore and plot is interesting i wouldnt like the show as it is without its purpose.

[@wingandwang5634]

@@batim_b5815 you misunderstand, i like the lore and plot, I'm saying adams character doesn't fit the story.

[@Jdudec367]

I mean it is a comedy. And? You don't think shows can be lore and plot heavy and also have funny characters? Oh god don't watch One Piece then.

[@wingandwang5634]

@@Jdudec367 nope, you also misunderstand me. am I speaking old english or something?

[@zero603]

would've been cooler if, instead of being a jerk, Adam would hear Charlie out, explain to Charlie his doubts, then give Charlie a list of requirements of how to get into heavan, then give her a deadline and if she doesn't redeem a sinner in that deadline, then the executions would continue. If Charlie does succeed, then heavan would fully support the hotel, thus leading to the V's wanting to stop the hotel because the hotel would potentially ruin everything they built. the series would then have a more episodic format, with one sinner being successfully redeemed at the end of every episode. Maybe even throw in a few episodes that focus more on Charlie, Vaggie, or any other character that is important enough to be rewarded with an episode all to themself.

[@dubitataugustinus]

The plot doesn't make any sense. Btw I love Adam.

[@hubertberrum6242]

I agree with you on everything

[@UnreliableArsonist]

I like Adam for the sole reason that he’s comedic relief and basically the equivalent of a frat boy and I haven’t even watched the show to get the full experience 😭

[@KiiBon]

0:39 Did Alastor brush his teeth

[@RomoFett_]

It's color shifted to get around copyright.

[@Prophociilol]

I swear I live for this background music, these are my favorite videos to study for. God I love FP’s vids

[@scifiwifi_]

It's weird that Adam was chosen as the bad guy for season one. Like, he's the original man, and after the whole fruit-eating catastrophe, and after they die, Adam and Eve go to hell for a bit in the Bible before they go to heaven. They literally know what hell is like. They were redeemed. They are proof that Charlie's plan can work, so why isn't Adam all for it? Also, where's Eve?

[@Jdudec367]

Wait when did they go to hell? I don't remember that. I mean here Adam clearly didn't go to hell so yeah. And Eve is somewhere.

[@Samchanne21]

@@Jdudec367If you remember reading Dante’s Paradiso, yeah, Adam is there in heaven.

[@Jdudec367]

@@Samchanne21 Well that too, I didn't know that tbh.

[@sleepyjoe1942]

because vivizepop isn't meant to show heaven and hell as what it is, it's just based off it

[@klavczarkalafan4191]

@@Samchanne21 Interesting to consider, although it's not cannon. Dante's stuff is fannon

[@saucersauce_4267]

Man and I thought Magnifico from Wish was a terrible villain but Adam takes the trophy for worst villain ever

[@christopherbravo1813]

ironically enough both of them are more justified in their actions than the "heroes" that call them evil.

[@IX4W]

They are both strawman to make the 'protagonist' more right/justified

[@dollzo]

At least Adam is fun to listen to and hell is forever is a bop

[@j01sonofsleazy]

@@dollzo and his lyrics weren't written by crappy ai

[@silvermangawolfygirl]

If Hazbin focused more into making things make sense instead of cool scenes and dramatic bits that work well in a vacuum but fall apart the instant you think about it, it could honestly have been amazing. Some great stuff is there, but the creator is a mess unfortunately. And it has gradually messed up with her shows. Not listening to legit criticism and encouraging toxic stan behaviour recklessly like that will lead to this. No surprises here. Just disappointment 😞 Edit:lmao that ending tho! Voice change cracked me up!😂

[@artistanthony1007]

They also gave us scenes for unnecessary characters like Camilla, we dont care about her or have a reason to and so she should've just spoke on a phone for a moment then in the future show her but give a moment to have us start to care then the voice acting is so hollow & lifeless and I gave a chance to listen to voice performances seperately but changed nothing and that Farewell Video with old cast was the opposite & amazing to listen to as I could feel life and the biggest issue is I came for the Hotel & Sinners OUTSIDE THE MAIN CAST arrive in Hotel to do things to then get redeemed and getting Sinners out of Hell before the Clock Tower hits the time for Extermination, what I was given is not what I came for and I only would've cared for War when that time for the event comes and so I do not care for this show, being lied to her 4 Years is a awful move. There's so much more issues I have but these say enough, it's not a good show and if any of you refuse to understand my side and tell me I'm a terrible person & wrong, I really dont care but I dont care if you love this show and the voice acting performances, I cant change but try to convince you why you shouldnt like it and real reasons.

[@Thatgeeky_Artist]

I just realised how Charlie's dream wouldn't exist without the exterminators. Because if both sides were in their respected areas, no need to try and save sinners. Theres only so many times Viv can use the exterminators as the main drive.

[@klavczarkalafan4191]

Well they're not the only reason. Sinners are constantly fighting eachother in Hell, but in Heaven everyone seem to get along (atleast, if there's disagreements there isn't violence between them)

[@Funkadelic_Zach4579]

Pilot charlie : is there any *humane* way to endure overpopulation...perhaps through redemption? Official charlie : Let's stop the extermination cuz we don't have much time to redeem a sinner at my hazbin hotel. Yup her logic is broken.

[@Jdudec367]

Not really she fought back in self defense which is fine really. How is her logic broken?

[@dollzo]

​@@Jdudec367she wants to redeem sinners to stop extermination but she wants to stop extermination to redeem sinners also what does her fighting back have to do with anything?

[@Jdudec367]

@@dollzo She wants to stop extermination to keep her people alive. I meant that her doing that in self defense is why she did it and it was fine really.

[@sleepyjoe1942]

she literally only chose that in the last 2 episodes of the show, you know, when they ran out of time

[@tec-6tec-662]

​@@Jdudec367sinners aren't her people tough, Hellborns are. Hellborn(imps, hellhounds ecc.) can be erased by normal weapons and they aren't threatened by the extermination, it kinda protects them by sinners. Therefore at the end of the day Adam is the one protecting Charlie's people from sinners. I know it sounds ridicolous but it's Hazbin Hotel's writing for you 😅 It made more sense in the pilot, she saw sinners as her people DESPITE having no connection to them and wanted to get rid of them peacefully.

[@Bentons-Crib]

they could have done something ACTUALLY smart and new with the "heaven is evil and hell is good" thing, but no, they decided on simply being edgy with nothing of real importance to say

[@desadograisedrobot515]

Imagine if they did a "Heaven is SCARED and Hell is MOSTLY filled with EVIL."

[@Liliana_the_ghost_cat]

​@@desadograisedrobot515honestly. Yeah, sounds like a much better idea

[@sleepyjoe1942]

@@desadograisedrobot515 thats literally what they did 😭😭

[@Collie-King]

As a fan of the show, it baffles me on how many other fans are set off by the slightest critique. Great video man!

[@wolfwalker334]

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, it would’ve worked so much better if they made Adam a Frollo type character, a holier than thou kind of character who has a major grudge against Lilith for leaving Eden and gets revenge by exterminating sinners every year

[@sleepyjoe1942]

it would be cool but Adam being an immature child who was gifted everything from day 1 makes more sense

[@bitteryetcivilized257]

If this show is meant to be an allegory on the hypocrisy of Christianity then it seems to me the writers have very little understanding of what the core fundamentals are. The religion was founded upon the teachings of Jesus Christ after he died, his teachings were meant to be centered on love, peace, kindess, and unity. There are some people who claim to be Christians but have no real understanding on the fundamentals themselves but they don't represent Christianity as a whole.

[@josevictorribeirolisboa7576]

Moreover they are shunned. I speak as a follower of christ myself. I have yet to see a christian who does abhorrent stuff be absolved because he is a "believer".

[@Grace-g8k2x]

To show just how incompetent Charlie is, she should have made a rehab center instead of a hotel (i know its one of her dad's old buildings) or she could have done that at the end of the season instead of rebuilding the hotel.

[@FreshFalcon]

Hazbin Rehab. Does make more sense. Cause at a hotel you're there to relax or have a place to stay for some time before you go back to your original life. Not to a new life

[@nicolelouise7295]

Tbh the hotel part was kinda explained in the pilot, basically a marketing gimmick/a way to make people feel they're stay will be good. The hotel _is_ a rehab center, atleast supposed to be as Charlie's methods are a tad juvenile and kinda uneducated. Like the show doesn't really treat her exercise as serious, rather they're played for laughs

[@cakefrosting6451]

9:13 I also like how Stella-esque is the grey statue like man, she needed her the Stella look so bad

[@theenderdestruction2362]

honestly in my opinion Adam should have been a sorta reluctant villain, like if he truly didn't eat the fruit then he has no free will but perhaps sera gave him some free will but beyond that he's just doing what he's told, and in the heaven episode it could have been very awesome if it is revealed that whilst down in hell he is ordered to act like the Adam in the show but in heaven he's a man who is on charlies side and when he says his support to the surprise of everyone (even sera and lute) he spits up golden blood showing and revealing to all that simple act of going against his orders hurts him physically and drains him heavily, and that could be a plot point of Adam wanting to save his children but also having to do his orders and his death could be from just out right refusing his orders, like he was ordered by a very corrupt angel to kill charlie and he nearly succeeds but in the last moment he stops, and charlie realizes to late that he's killing himself and before she can react he falls to the ground throwing up blood and dying by choking on it as well, to send home that in the end Adam the father of mankind and the first human won over the exterminator but in doing so died to protect his greatest enemy's daughter, hell maybe he could just explain he hates Lucifer not for making him fall but for starting a bloody war in heaven and convincing countless of his children to do horrible shit and Charlie at first not believing in it but then she can look into it and find that no he and Lilith did do that and now there's a conflict

[@TheTdw2000]

Hazbin Hotel makes no sense because if Heaven is God's kingdom, then the residents of Hell are no threat to them whatsoever because God is omnipotent and omniscient.

[@helion_ut]

God doesn't explicitly exist in the show for multiple reasons, this one probably included.

[@dollzo]

​@@helion_uttrue but the angels can go to hell and the demons can't so why would they be a threat if they can't even touch you

[@DiaboTatuado]

9:47 That's the best impression of Charlie's grandma I seem in a while

[@calamityz_callide6702]

If Adam was like Dottore (Smiling and smooth talking, but behind closed doors, pissed and angry when things don't go his way). It would be so awesome. Also, if the angels didn't curse at all. It would make sense that when Charlie said "Fuck Yes". In court, Emily and Sera would have a reason to make that face.

[@averagecartoonfan6348]

i think in a better paced show, the 6 months should have been given to Charlie as a "if you can prove someone can be redeemed by then, we can work out where to go from here" and then have the season finale be the rug pull that heaven does not want to listen, operates on false morality, is completely corrupt and the exterminations are going ahead as planned. and Adam is revealed to have been fully just stringing Charlie along, maybe he could be in contact with her throughout the show seemingly being a helpful guiding light only to be revealed as more of a snake than Lucifer that one time in the garden then season 2 can be preparing for war, defending against the angel army, and Charlie trying to deal with this bombshell

[@ky7501]

There really wasn’t enough time for the characters to have meaningful relationships before the big climax of the battle. I think the whole extermination plot should have been saved for another season, and the first season should have actually focused on the hotel instead of jumping into this war stuff off the bat. If they gave time for the hotel to actually start taking effect, it would have made charlies argument with heaven more interesting because we could have clearly seen if the hotel actually worked by now. Instead we are just supposed to take her word for it (which is also super confusing because she flip flops so often between believing it will work vs having no hope it will work)

[@imposter609]

This show is basically the quote :God has left us

[@eva-naiyatorian8573]

Why it Charlie just focusing on the sinners when all of Hell is messed up? I’m mean the hellhounds and imps are basically slaves and she’s not doing anything about it. Are those not her people to?

[@tylerdaniell2270]

Hellborns can't go to Heaven

[@victoriaburroughs8399]

This show disappointed me on so many levels. I know I shouldn’t have expected the show to conform to every little niche expectation/headcannon I had (an expectation it lived up to FLAWLESSLY) but the way they completely butchered their concept and had everything running at 100 with no breaks really broke my immersion. It was so goddamn fast, and not even the fun kind of fast. Just…”Amazon may shut us down so let’s throw seasons worth of character development and conflict into one season and see if it works out”. Needless to say it didn’t. This show could’ve easily been a slice of life that left room for individual character development while also developing a slow-burn mystery regarding Liliths disappearance, but they tried to do too much too fast and it shows. The show isn’t a complete waste. It’s by far the most ambitious project adult comedy animation has seen in a long time, and some of the songs are legitimate bops, but when your story is a out-of-control train wreck riddled with plot holes, not even the show’s best aspects can save it. Also, and this might just be a me thing, but I HATE the constant profanity and sex jokes. I’m no prude (not in the slightest), but the constant slog of “adult” language and sex jokes was giving me “modern Family Guy/American Dad” vibes. A few here and there is fine, but when even serious dialogue is treated like a joke, how can you expect the audience to be invested in the stakes? Also, some of the cursing was so out of character for some characters??? Like, why is Alastor cussing???? Isn’t his whole thing that he’s a classic southern gentleman??? It just sounds so weird. That and the “how’s mercy taste you little bitch? 👹😡” from Lucifer near the end. Like really? Was that supposed to sound intimidating, cause it wasn’t. It just sounded wrong.

[@Corrector1]

If it makes you feel better, it's not just you. The excessive amount of vulgarity is a common criticism of both Hazbin Hotel and Vivziepop's work in general.

[@JaneLlewellyn]

You're not alone on that part, I also swear a lot but I'm trying to lessen it because I realized it sounds annoying. I watched adult cartoons but some never swear a hundred times in one episode. It just annoys me that's the punchline for her show and Viv thinks it's funny.

[@MaryamFaisal-qi2ro]

Yeah I agree, that line from Lucifer sounder more like a 10 year old playing Fortnite lmao (wait his va also voices varian from tangled💀) An example of threatening swearing done right is in Guardians of the Galaxy 3, when Quill is again comparing Past Gamora to his Gamora, and she just snaps and screams "I DONT GIVE A DAMN!" I don't really consider damn to be a swear, but you get my point. That actually sounded scary.

[@DrAngelKins]

I don't mind alastor using profanity. It's out of character, but at the same time, not really.

[@richi3035]

VivziePop should just remake season 1. Same premise, characters, songs and everything else, but this time with actual writers.

[@lightjones9894]

All of your points are 1,000 percent valid.

[@RomoFett_]

Not really.

[@lightjones9894]

@@RomoFett_ Explain

[@lightjones9894]

@@a_plane Yeah, It's very odd. I honestly couldn't wait for the amount of things that they were going to say but for some reason they just up and dip.🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[@K1ttyGam3r]

I miss when this show had potential

[@randomguy56789]

It’s a show in the 2020s decade nothing in this decade has any potential same could be said for the last decade to except for Kid Cosmic on Netflix that is but strangely enough I still have a glimmer of hope left

[@Sam-qc9fd]

Me too

[@artistanthony1007]

IP technically, the pilot is very different than the show in many ways.

[@K1ttyGam3r]

@@artistanthony1007 yeahhh

[@JuiceNJaam]

If Sera met with Charlie in hell instead, that would have kept up the facade of heaven being an idealized place, and Emily would remain unaware of the exterminations. It would also reinforce the idea that Sera is manipulative and trying to pacify Charlie from messing up the status quo

[@elknight1668]

My biggest concers is, how is season 2 going to work? like, if adam was the only one we know was the head of the extermination, and hell knows they can be killed, and I'm pretty sure that lute is not as powerful as adam, so how? how are they gonna tell me "yeah theres another trouble" the vees? we know vox was easily defeated by alastor, velvette has literally almost no screen time and valentino just you know....cares about angel and his contract, but doesn't care abou the hotel, so what excuse are they gonna create to say there is a trouble? and not only that but with sir pentious out of the place, are we getting another character? and in that case....it is to much characters goddamn it!

[@Spiritlikes99]

besides its funny how the series ignores the hotel for 6 EPISODES there like only 2 episodes worth of runtime actually focusing on the damn HOTEL!,besides now that adam is dead and they know they can kill angels,THE HOTEL IS USELESS!,besides charlie dating vaggie an EX-EXTERMINATOR who prob killed THOUSANDS OF HER OWN KIND is just a flaw in the damn SCRIPT!,besides i think it would been way better to they to focus on the HELLBORN people then the sinners!,if you think about it because hellborn dindt had a choice to be in damn hell!,so they deserve atleast a chance to be better!,not the damn SINNERS!

[@chordsofsteel-i4j]

8:58 im guessing its cause the bible probably doesn't exist in this universe.

[@PixieMyth]

A smooth talking Adam would be amazing

[@UnreliableArsonist]

Like how ForcedPositivity connected him to Hades from Hercules But it does make sense on why he acts the way he does bc he’s voiced by the same guy that does Fizzarolli from Helluva Boss and Beetlejuice from the musical

[@martinm.5466]

Everything could have been so much easier if the show didn't take place in hell but in purgatory. You know, the place specifically made for sinners to get a chance to redeem themselves and enter heaven and avoid eternal punishment in hell? This way the whole question of whether it is possible that sinners can be redeemed would have been answered right from the start, and the show could have focused entirely on the actual process of redeeming the characters through the hotel.

[@lorddevilfish5868]

I like that the criteria for getting into heaven or hell is unknown, it adds some mystery and makes the moral conflict more interesting. I also always assumed that heaven is going to be terrible with the exterminations and she would have to go on an arc about how being a good person is still important even if the universe itself doesn’t care. If I were to assume how it works is that human/demon/angel belief (conscious or unconscious) influences the universe either invisibly or creating entities of evil (maybe a Root of all Evil) and gods that secretly feed off the world to maintain their power and conflict (like the chaos gods in Warhammer 40k). They represent the assumptions of morality not actually tangible good or evil, the root of all evil is associated with personal ambition (such as Lucifer causing the fall), while good is associated with blind obedience. The show could with overcoming bond assumptions on human nature and seeing them as grey beings, which would be a cool idea! That said the show itself has mutilated its pacing, and as mentioned Adam is a terrible antagonist to represent this idea (and a terrible character in general)! They really should have had Sera be the main antagonist, she’s just as evil as Adam, but is delusional to believe she’s doing the right thing.

[@Kye9842]

I don't really see how you could come to that assumption based off the show, but it's otherwise a neat headcanon and I'm a fan of "belief literally shapes the world" stories

[@snakesareamazing]

I wouldn't say that Sera is just as evil as Adam. Adam was seemingly the one who came up with the extermination in the first place and he really enjoys killing sinners. Sera on the other hand doesn't seem to be happy about any of this. We already see her looking sad in the beginning of the first episode when Charlie talks about the lore of hell. And she seems just as sad in episode 6. She strikes me more as an "The end justifies the means" character and not as someone who is evil. It seems like she truly believes that this is the best way to protect heaven

[@lorddevilfish5868]

@@Kye9842 In terms of the belief creates gods or magic, it comes from a line from Stolas in Seeing Stars, where he describes the Lovecraft monster god Azathoth, the creature is said to be formed by the dreams of everything that doesn’t exist. If there could be a creature that influences the physical universe through meteor showers from the thoughts of everything that doesn’t exist, I think it’s possible there could be entities that feed off of the characters we actually know. Plus the show is about dreams and imagination so it could come full circle if it’s about dealing with belief.

[@Kye9842]

@@lorddevilfish5868 it's not the god existing that he is referencing there... It's that the tears *of Azathoth* exist, being the unrealized dreams. Those not actually being meteor showers just what appear to be

[@lorddevilfish5868]

@@Kye9842 I think it was meant to be ambiguous, Stolas could have been speaking poetically or that these meteors actually do have magic properties from their Lovecraftian originator. I will say even if he wasn’t being literal, the name had to come from somewhere and there is a lot of squid imagery not just in that episode (there’s some graffiti of a tentacle with an eyeball on it), there’s the Von Eldritch family who are associated with Leviathan, and there’s all the black tentacles that sprout from Alastor. I could be looking too deep into it, but, I think there are some unknowable Lovecraftian monsters influencing things behind the scenes. That said believe whatever you want to believe for the show. kzbin.infoUgkx2uatpkWId_dnkhR-_Mq_5n4LzxXpT9k0?si=K5R7C1Mhe0TwwSfh

[@creepyguy9082]

The show would’ve greatly improved if it focused on the HOTEL. The final product we got was a clustered mess of episodes that feel like were meant to be major specials rather than the average episodic format. It would’ve given us a lot to explore with the world and characters, how they manage the hotel and the guests coming to check it out. Episode one would have been much better suited for a season finale, leaving the viewers on a cliffhanger and question "oh crap, where do we go from here now??? How’s Charlie going to respond? What about all the guests and employees? Was all of it just a waste of time???". We could’ve at least started ourselves off with the episodic format leading to the finale, AND THEN we start getting into the nitty gritty.

[@baddog2724]

Viv completely missed and wasted the potential this show has. Hazbin hotel's topic about Heaven is not much of a good place, what is good? and what is bad? What makes you qualified into Heaven, and what makes you a sinner? Does being a sinner means you are completely hopeless? Does being a sinner means you deserve all the suffer in Hell? All of them are just great ideas to have to put in this show If only IF ONLY Viv slows down everything and give everyone in the hotel an episode in season 1 Their back stories, why Charlie suddenly wants to do this, why are they ended up down here (like what they did with episode 4) and put the meeting with the Angels at the end of season 1 to leave a cliffhanger for season 2, so that we, the viewers don't have to be put in the situations be like : "Oh shit, guess we are doing this now" Man- if only.

[@BlueBerry20071]

Hazbin Hotel is just trying to be animatex "The Good Place," but it's failing really badly.

[@MeepMacArthurlll]

No it's more like falling down 12 flights of stairs level of failure

[@PeteyBirdd]

What’s the song playing when Adam shows up it’s good crying throwing up

[@arcadeii]

i watched the first episode of this without knowing much abt it (my friend showed it to me) and…. adam confused me. i was under the impression that the system being corrupt was… a well known fact and not a supposed twist, and i was thinking the whole time that having him be quietly evil and more reminiscent if actual religion, ie using double standards or really really harsh rules wouldve been much better. i assumed at the time that it would go farther into that later but… nope, apparently.

[@Asura_editz16]

1:29 ok, she says "i weep for you if you dont think a *WELL DELIVERED* F-ck word is funnee." But to that, as a fan, i say that she never does it well delivered or does she do it right.

[@mollylikesspace]

I dont like hazbin at all, I just enjoy critiquing, but I think it'd be so much more interesting and characterful if Charlie had a very strict, religious, 'pure' world view, in an attempt to make her own soul pure. Then during the season finale, she finally meets an angel and is visibly confused and destroyed by their offensive nature and attitude. That would add more impact: not only has her worldview shifted but us as the audience are also feeling it with her. It truly feels hopeless, and the message of "nothing can make someone more divine as the next" is more clearly demonstrated and better reflects the discrimination that exists within religion

[@simple-commentator-not-rea7345]

You know the show messed up when it can't even offend religious people properly. No, they're just as annoyed as all of us at the bad writing.

[@MeepMacArthurlll]

I'm super religious but was only pissed off on how terrible the writing was

[@imagoof14]

Sinner? I hardly know her!

[@ana.wordswordswords]

"i've been influenced by south park" NO WAY😭 Viv's shows are what non-SP fans think SP is. vivzie is ACTIVELY trying to be edgy, matt and trey, creators of SP, on the other hand are just naturally crude and offensive with their humor, and always have been. not to mention, south park has actual humor outside of swearing, violence, and language . AAANDDDDDDD South Park is from the perspective of 4TH GRADE BOYS. Pretty important detail 😭. oh yeah and this is more of a personal thing but the south park games ALONE have better stories than anything viv's ever written

[@ana.wordswordswords]

alright my south park rambling aside, viv has SUCH a problem with writing, ESPECIALLY with her villains. its literally just "this guy bad because bad." "this guy good because good." something that has ALWAYS bothered me in the helluverse is status. whats the point of drumming up the significance of overlords and royalty if it literally means NOTHING to ANYONE. except, SOMETIMES it does? if these beings are so infamous and powerful, why don't we really see that? royalty means enough for Charlie to visit Heaven, but not enough for her name to hold any power? why would Heaven regard the status of Lucifer/Charlie more than Hell?? also, regarding heaven, if Sinners can be redeemed if they show non-sinful behavior in Hell before their death, what about the souls in Heaven? I mean, Adam's dead, and he's very obviously sinful, but according to Viv, he's not going to Hell... wait, then where the hell does he go? Detroit?

[@Jdudec367]

I mean...no?She is crude and edgy too. And her show really ain't SP or like that. And like...her jokes aren't all swearing, violence, and language, Adam's humor for example is his entire personality and how absurrd and egotistical he is it's only his swearing and language. I never played the games...do they really have betterr stories?

[@ana.wordswordswords]

@@Jdudec367 adam is literally the mascot of “vivzie has overly vulgar writing” his PERSONALITY is that he’s egotistical and dickish, but his HUMOR is that he’s crude and vulgar also, yes, vivzie’s stuff is vulgar and crude, but she’s actively TRYING to be that way. matt stone and trey parker are just simply people with offensive humor (and that doesn’t even have to do with the language, that’s just because the show is from the perspective of 3rd/4th grade boys)

[@Jdudec367]

@@ana.wordswordswords I mean....I thought that was Angel Dust to be fair. I mean...his personality clearly ties in with his humor, like again how absurd and comical he is despite being the main villian and that isn't only crude or vulgar stuff either. I mean they try too, you always gotta try with writing. (Um no...that isn't a 3rd or 4th grade....do you know how kids those age actually sound?)

[@enterusername4650]

This is why i never went to film school. People will eviscerate anything that isnt literally perfect. My mental health wouldn't be able to take that kind of abuse. Criticism is important but everything is "bad" these days. Nobody is ever happy. Nobody understands how hard people like vivziepop work to achieve their dreams. You know what we should be ripping apart? The souless slop big corporations pump out. Go ahead say its a bad take but everyone is so miserable in this dystopian nightmare that the only way they can feel better is by being rude and negative all the time.

[@nightstalker5282]

Remember Hazbin Hotel has ten writters for eight episodes. Too many cooks For having 8 episodes it will be classified as a miniseries. Im comparing it to Over the Garden Wall.

[@CoruscantCorvid]

The point of the exterminations is so that hell doesn't have enough sinners to overthrow heaven. The point of redemption isn't "heaven good" it's a way to pacify heaven by reducing hell's population WITHOUT killing people. Charlie's parents were personally thrown into hell for an honest mistake. She's experienced the yearly extermination her entire life. She is fully aware heaven isn't perfect and that angels can be assholes. The problem is that she goes into the meeting w/ Adam assuming that he and the exorcists kill sinners because *they can't be bothered* to find a more humane way to solve the population issue, not that they actively *want* to kill sinners. Meeting Adam and Lute is definitely discouraging, but they still aren't the big bosses in heaven. Charlie assumes the higher ranked angels aren't quite as bloodthirsty, AND SHE'S RIGHT. Sera doesn't *want* to kill sinners, she sees it as a necessary evil to protect heaven. She is actively ashamed of approving the extermination to the point where Adam has a gag order. Sera isn't a good person, but if she had been the one Charlie met in the first episode she likely would have approved the plan provided she didn't have to do much and any redeemed sinners agreed to shut up about the exterminations.

[@klavczarkalafan4191]

There are some good points to this video, there are also some things that have been overlooked. I agree that an episode 1 scene with an angel that was either open to Charlie or appeared to be open to Charlie would have been an improvement. I like that idea, it's a good idea. So here's what else I see. Who is and isn't in heaven makes so much more sense if you think about Heaven, not as an alternate kingdom, but as an alternate place in one interconnected society. Even though the characters talk about Lucifer and Charlie being "King" and "Princess" of hell, it makes more sense to think of them as leaders within an underclass to Heaven's upper class in one world. Whether this disconnect between the way the characters think about society vs the way it appears to actually work was a conscious choice or not on the part of the writers (possibly a future plot point) I don't know but it does seem to follow that rule. Also some characters are based off of ancient messopotamian spirits (like the goetia) which viewed heaven a little bit differently than modern pop-culture does. The social perception model of heaven and hell has historical precedence in the ancient messopotamian religions that the modern concept of heaven and hell is based off of. The Raphaim (and their pre-literary counterparts, the Nephilim) were archaeologically shown to be rich or influential members of society that were seen as providing alot of social good and were deified after their death. There isn't any reason to believe they were any less corrupt than the rich and power of any other era or society, and given the evidence of the brutal punitive "justice" meated out in those times, they were likely not all that just. However the good and specific reputations of their personalities, values and personal philosophies became the basis of the "branding" of temples dedicated to them, and religion formed the backbone of the institutions in those early settlements. The same is true for the Egyptian Pharaohs (Kings) who became the gods with temples dedicated to them. Similar things seemed to have happened in the surrounding kingdoms and empires of Assyria, Sumeria, Babylon and Phoenicia. And all of these pantheons were mapped onto eachother meticulously by the Greeks, who replaced their original native pantheon (the Titans) with their version of this new combination homebrew pantheon (which they called the Olympians). This happened historically and also this is enshrined in myth in the rewriting of Baal Haddad (The original, Cannanite, version of Zeus)'s victory over death into Zeus' victory over Kronos. In any case, many of the cannanite gods were demoted into the first drafts of named angels (known as the sons of El/God) in Yahweh's court in early abrahamic mythology. Those demons/gods who were seen as assisting Yahweh were designated as angels (messengers of God) and those that were seen opposing him were considered devils (enemies of God). Early on there was room for there to be demons that were inbetween. Also, gods of other pantheons were designated as a particular type of demon called 'Shedim'. For example - Dagon, being an important deity in other pantheons, was percieved as a demon in early Yahwist religion and shows up today in popcultral depictions of hell as a powerful evil demon. Some of the named demons in abrahamic religion are just gods from foreign, and therefore untrusted, pantheons and as a result garnered negative reputations in Yahwism. The characters in Hazbin Hotel's Hell are in large part defined by being associated with Hell's negative reputation even if they don't have bad ways that need changing (like Charlie). They are perceived as evil and irredeemable by both hell and heaven. In contrast, those in heaven are perceived as good by both hell and heaven. Some actually are - like Emily, and some actually aren't - like Adam. Following that logic, the fact that Adam is a jerk doesn't foil Charlie's plans in a couple of ways: First off, even if some people in heaven turn out to be jerks that doesn't necessarily change the fact that other people who go to heaven are going to be treated well. We see throughout the series that people in hell are constantly fighting, thieving and eating eachother - but while there are disagreements and secrets in heaven, there is no actual infighting or threat of violence between them. That precedent is really all it takes for an idealistic dreamer (like Charlie) to hope for the best in terms of that dynamic staying true when their plans are set into motion. Secondly, there generally tends to be a certain amount of leeway in being perceived as being jerks to people who are genuinely evil, like punching Notsees or unaliving PDFs which are far more acceptable to joke about - or to openly state to be willing to do - than joking about doing this to anyone else. So Adam being a jerk in episode 1 could be perceived by Charlie (who generally gives everyone the benefit of the doubt) as mistaken confidence in the absolute and extreme evil of the denizens of hell and, as a result, not caring about how much of a jerk he is to them - them specifically. Only for Charlie to later learn that it's actually how he is to everyone (that being said, Adam does really go over the top in that scene and more could probably be done to highlight a perception on Charlie's part that Adam isn't normally like this but is acting this way due to Hell's reputation). Going with the perception theory - exorcists camping redeemed sinners might very well cross their minds but also be clearly a bad idea for them. The exterminations, while commonly known in Hell, appear to be a scandalous secret in Heaven that only some top officials are in on. In modern day society, in real life, we can see large disconnects between the "Ivory Tower" and all the rest of everyone else. The lack of information in heaven (and possible apathy as to what happens to sinners) isn't unrealistic. Violence itself seems to be something associated with Hell and the citizens of heaven, if they don't know the exact mechanic of what lands you where, would still have a solid sense of it being out of place in heaven. Open fire in heaven's halls might result in the disgrace, and thus falling, of the exorcists. Even if they don't know exactly where that line lies, they do seem to have picked up some idea that discretion about their violence is important. That being said, if social perception is the paradigm, there are probably several things that could be changed to make it stand out better. Also, I agree with many comments on here that the plot of Heaven vs Hell, should probably be pushed back to a second (or later) season. Allowing for character interactions to be built up on the way while they are unsure if they can actually reach heaven, recruit various characters, some doubt or even leave, the rest find ways to continue on in hope, Alastor stays positive about it outwardly but really thinks it's an amusing lost cause, etc. Maybe the plotline with the Vees as the first season antagonists, or maybe the focus is on building up residents with a background plot of the heaven vs hell conflict slowly building every so often. Then the meeting with Adam should be later on in the heaven vs hell plotline, after some angels have shown positive regards to Charlie's plan (sincere or not) but delays keep occurring. Eventually Adam goes mask off and the battle happens, which higher stakes (via more emotional attachment to the characters from eachother and the audience). At this point in the story Sir Pentious becoming the first redeemed sinner would have even more weight as characters may beforehand be able to go through a whole arc of coming to peace with the possibility of it being unattainable and atleast enjoying their community together - only for that stability to be disrupted by the confirmation that is possible. A third season might then see Alastor as the main Villian, having defeated the Vees and tested some new tricks on the Angels during the battles with Heaven, finally attempting to wrap up everything needed to reclaim total power in hell and this causes him to need to prevent sinners (possible minions / targets) from escaping through the method of redemption. My guess as to why the Hazbin Hotel storyline doesn't have these character moments / "filler" is probably because alot of that energy and attitude was funneled into Helluva Boss. Which has alot of good character moments that were refined from plot holes and issues in its previous episodes. Well, that and the dynamic is probably that Hazbin Hotel is the story Vivienne wanted to tell before the team built its current skill level, and Helluva Boss is a side plot / testbed. So it would be alot easier to be flexible and change up things as needed on Helluva's plot and characterization (which makes it much better and more improved) but Hazbin Hotel may have certain elements of plot and characters "frozen in time" from writers' skill level from when it was first envisioned. Certain "darling" ideas that can't be renegotiated (either in their minds or some constraints with the contract with Amazon). I seem to recall that this was the case with Main/Side plot elements in recent previous exciting works from other creators (ie: Steven Universe's main plotline being an interesting concept with mid execution but good execution on sideplots ; Owl House had a great plot but was cancelled due to contract restraints about gay ; etc) although maybe I'm remembering that wrong. Also: This is comment 666 on this video! Congrats, we did it.

[@davidlecroy1106]

my problem is how it felt so fast paced

[@louisemagat8173]

I think that this ending (plus his Sera interactions) really show a lot about Adam's character- he really has his insecurities about being in Heaven in the first place, hence why objects redemption. He sees all Sinners coming from him, and as such their actions color him and are seen as "stain of his legacy". More than that, as he knows that he is, in fact, flawed (unlike his claims), he sees his flaws in the Sinners, and through Extermination he is able to justify his place in Heaven- by erasing his own flaws from the world, he no longer needs to face how low he (and Eve) might have fallen. Really a well written villain.

[@JJ-ec9lp]

The premise of hazbin hotel is the premise of The Good Place but if the writers were BAD LMAO

[@PokemonkaDub]

We don't need to go as far into the 1st episode as you did to see absolutely terrible writing, world building and misunderstanding of anything the show is suppose to be referencing or building upon... The prologue. The prologue is contradicting itself constantly and makes 0 sense. A) Lucifer fell in love with Lilith because of her strong will and how she didn't take shit from her husband! B) humans had no free will until Lilith and Lucifer gave Eve the apple ^ WHICH ONE IS IT? A) Angels send sinners to hell as a punishment B) Hell is run by sinners and the worse you were in life the more power you have :3 CMOM A) Angels are afraid of uprising sinners that grow in power B) Exterminations target the weakest sinnsers at random while the more powerfull ones hide and are safe :3 WTF A) Angels don't know what gets anyone to hell or heaven B) Angels are the ones who cast to hell Lucifer and know what can get an angel "fall" Okay... And many MAANY MORE

[@toyosibee.mp3]

This now makes me wonder why the hell they rebuilt the hotel at the end of ep 8, THEY DONT KNOW WHAT GETS SOMEONE INTO HEAVEN, AND THEY DONT KNOW PENTIOUS WENT TO HEAVEN, SO ? IS IT JUST...AN APARTMENT BUILDING NOW?

[@artistanthony1007]

That's Viv's writing, decisions and thinking for you, it's so fxcking stupid.

[@mushybrains9843]

I didn't even know it was supposed to be a plot twist.

[@grimrants9255]

South park swearing is funny because that's how fourth graders talk when no one else is looking.

[@MeepMacArthurlll]

It's hilarious that she criticizes southpark when they actually have layered and setups to joke and even made a episode criticizing writing like hers

[@hellomanul]

The good place did it better.

[@Chlogami]

I totally get your reasoning. Would have been better with Emily in Ep1...BUT...I personally still love the way it is now because Adam is the best character in my opinion. It makes so much sense that he became the way he is after his death as a human. That's why I personally love his presence in episode 1. There were not that many scenes in other episodes with him. I really hope that we see more of him in seaosn 2

[@gilgameshthetreasurehunter2750]

Honestly, instead of the villain for season 1 being Adam, I would have it have been Enoch. Have Adam be a supporting character for Emily while Enoch sides with Sera

[@XzavierRosa]

First if they gotten into heaven, Sarah wouldn’t allow Adam to do that and Emily also won’t allow Adam to do that and literally everyone else in hell that’s not an exterminator and also Charlie is only doing this because of the extermination just to clarify if the exterminations weren’t happening, she wouldn’t want to Get people in heaven because what she thinks is the only reason exterminations are happening is overpopulation in the song forever she learns that’s just fun so you’re probably thinking doesn’t this contradict your point if Charlie knows that the exterminations are just for entertainment and not for overpopulation not be trying to get people in heaven, but heaven but again the only reason Charlie does the thing she does is because she doesn’t like the exterminations and she figures out in episode six that the rest of heaven doesn’t know and Emily also doesn’t know Sarah doesn’t stop Adam from doing next extermination,

[@Spider-fan2038-js1iq]

I feel like it should’ve been other demons doing the exterminating, like when there’s too many sinners it starts to get chaotic and at first demons are using the chaos to their benefit until it eventually gets out of their control and they get/ have to begin the exterminations.

[@Timmy-Tury]

1:18 NOOOOOOOO

[@2l84me8]

The show and characters lack any level of subtly whatsoever, so Alastor really comes off as an overrated character the writers haven’t thought of how to use and implement yet.

[@nagyakos8467]

As a Christian, I don't mind if a show that contains religious topics takes creative liberties. If you want to make the angels the bad guys, fine, but there is a right and a wrong way of doing it. If the angels aren't the good guys, then who are? Because Hazbin Hotel presents the idea that ultimately, both Heaven and Hell are neutral. And I'm sorry, that just doesn't work. Angels and Demons are supposed to be the embodiments of good and evil, but if neither side is better than the other, then that just means the afterlife sucks no matter where you end up. Honestly at that point you should just stay in Limbo. Or Purgatory. I like Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss, I really do, and I don't hate Vivziepop, but there is one major issue I have with her writing. - Episode 1 of Helluva Boss establishes that our main characters are assassins. How many episodes are there that actually focus on them assassinating people? Heck, she had to create shorts just to fill in that gap. - Hazbin Hotel establishes that it's about a hotel. How many episodes focused on the hotel? This is the problem. A premise is established, then it is dropped, but then they pretend that the premise is still active, even though in reality it's being sidelined by action and not straight romance. No offense to any homosexuals. Like I said, I like both Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss because there are other things about them that make the overall experience pleasant for me, but I'm not gonna sit here and pretend they're flawless. Charlie and Vaggie are a cute couple though. And Hell Is Forever and Loser, Baby are songs that speak to me on a personal level and I love them for that.

[@michaelklim8277]

Charlie was born and raised in Hell with only a vague impression of what Heaven was like when her dad was there thousands of years ago. Her main character flaw is that she is nearly incapable of acknowledging the presence of evil in a soul. Everything you said makes sense but Charlie with that flaw, Vaggie with her secret, and Lucifer with him not wanting to talk about it were the only ones in Hell that knew what Adam and Lute were really like. Charlie doesn't seem to know what it takes to get into Heaven and seemed to just be trying stuff that she's heard from jaded sinners. Her own moral compass is good but she so doesn't react when anyone else violates it, so it most likely didn't sink in that Adam shouldn't be acting exactly like a sinner, even if his behavior pissed her off. It does seem like a writing flaw but, season one was mainly about exploring and fixing character flaws, and so I'm thinking now that maybe this was part of it. It could also be a parody of the blatant evil in religious texts that almost everyone looks over to follow the faith blindly. But I don't think the show was meant to be a commentary on the real life Abrahamic Religions.

[@Kurkanos]

4:07 why are you fighting a guy of your own team i don't get it

[@krt8205]

Did viv only write the first episode?

[@tylere.8436]

Feels like it, and solely yes. The other ones have cowriters

[@animalobsessed1]

2:45 Um... no. Charlie is probably aware that heaven has a hierarchy and Adam is limited to the position he has. He's not in charge of admittance, and I doubt he'd be allowed to start slaughtering people who have been permitted into heaven, just because he holds a grudge. I've seen much better arguments for the point you're trying to make.

[@chordsofsteel-i4j]

4:10 its not supposed to he a twist. Charlie probably didnt assume all angels sre bad becaude Adam was there because adam isnt a angel, he's a human, the one who tried to make her own mother submissive, i dont think anyone would be like: "aw yeah all angels must be like the first ever human"

[@somethingunusual8456]

Besides, her dad is an angel. A fallen one, yes, but Charlie isn't stupid, she sees both the good and the bad in her dad, thus could approach the rest of the angels in the same way.

[@chordsofsteel-i4j]

@@somethingunusual8456 yeah