Malignant Narcissism

In this episode, Dr. Ettensohn clarifies the concept of Malignant Narcissism, drawing on the model developed by theorist Otto Kernberg. Common misconceptions are dispelled. Object Relations Theory is used to discuss the origins of both NPD and Malignant Narcissism, highlighting developmental differences between each disorder.
Two meanings of malignant narcissism are discussed:
1. Malignant narcissism is a combination of narcissistic personality, antisocial traits, ego-syntonic sadism, and paranoid thinking that represents its own personality constellation distinct from Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
2. Malignant narcissism represents a phase or episode of narcissistic pathology in which repressed or split-off identifications with sadistic objects rise to the surface and become enacted in relationships. This is often due to loosening of grandiose defenses in psychotherapy.
Link to Episode discussing Borderline Personality Organization referenced in the video: • Is It Vulnerable Narci...
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References:
Ettensohn, M.D. (2011). The relational roots of narcissism: Exploring relationships between attachment style, acceptance by parents and peers, and measures of grandiose and vulnerable narcissism. (Doctoral dissertation).
Goldner-Vukov, M., & Moore, L. J. (2010). Malignant narcissism: From fairy tales to harsh reality. Psychiatria Danubina, 22(3), 392-405.
Kernberg, O. F. (1970). Factors in the psychoanalytic treatment of narcissistic personalities. Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association, 18, 51-85.
Kernberg O.F. (1984). Severe Personality Disorders. New Haven, CT: Yale University Press.
#npd #narcissism #mentalhealth #mentalhealthawareness #dsm #psychology #healing #psychoanalysis

[@healnpd]

I will remove comments that are abusive to any individual (including myself) or population. This includes comments that are abusive toward pwNPD.

[@Eusebeia7]

You just mentioned the unconscious, I have an INFJ personality and believe that the unconscious does not exist but rather the right hemisphere which is aphasic but communicated by intuition. Language and logic are both left-hemispheric functions. Therefore the Ni-Ti loop in the InFj personality with the right hemisphere picking the material for the left hemisphere to rigorously logically evaluate and fit into the big picture. Therefore intuition is a better choice of words than the unconscious mind.

[@AnthonyManzio]

I'm from Canada. What is your advice? Same here being bullied, mobbed, gaslighting, harassed at the hospital for over 14 years. I've happened to be the top worker for 39 years and have never been suspended. These bullies are jealous haters and are very miserable people. Union, manager, HR and the police are all totally useless. Bullies are lazy bums and stupid managers are scared of the bullies. They say I'm crazy, I drink, I'm a stalker who follows women after work. All bs defamation of character. The biggest mistake since they removed disciplinary measures. They should arrest the bullies and fire the manager. Action speaks louder than nasty words. It destroys my reputation. I will never quit to make these lazy bums ever win. If I decide to transfer to another hospital and may start gaslighting, smearing and bullying me once again, I don't know all the new managers etc. like in every department like now. So best to not change hospitals. I will never let bullies try to control me from quitting. Just don't react and don't try to defend myself which will only go back and forth making me look even more guilty. Action always speaks louder than words. Just best to ignore them and let them find another easier target. Never let these low life lazy bums ever win.

[@christinababin7020]

@@healnpd I have been in two relationships with men that I believe had npd. I love the insight you give. It rings true to my experience with npd. They both had very bad mothers. Thank you for helping these individuals. There is too much shaming and hatred towards them but what they really need is help.

[@melliecrann-gaoth4789]

It is said that the original fairy tales had evil mothers but that was rewritten to step mothers to make the stories more palatable- saleable. One of the greatest taboos remaining is The Evil Mother.

[@busystreet38]

Interesting take.

[@Eve_StElley]

And truly, ironically it’s the reality of life for many children. It’s terrible how society often outright shuts out this problem as well.

[@kathleendinsmore7588]

So glad you point this out. It is a total myth that a mother cannot intentionally harm her child. My stepmother and I did not always get along but in the final outcome she proved to be one thousand times more mother to me than my bio-mom!

[@charel9399]

If I'm understanding this correctly, it would explain why "empaths" tend to be the common "target" of abuse by malignant narcissists. By showing compassion and attempt at understanding, they are evoking a defensive response, because the malignant narcissist genuinely feels attacked by such behavior

[@charel9399]

It's honestly very sad that the people who really want to help them and be there for them are unwittingly hurting them the most (which is then reciprocated)

[@ArchAngel435]

​@@charel9399How do empaths unwittingly hurt them ? Empaths as I understand are those who love themselves enough to set strong boundaries and self care. So by extension they would not hurt or enable the malignant narcissist.

[@sepehradonis6959]

@@ArchAngel435 No, most empaths have problems with setting boundaries and narcissists can sense their kind nature. Also empaths give genuine love to narcissists which narcissists are desperate for it to feel important and regulate their self esteem. Empath is like fresh blood for the vampire narcissist. But the problem with malignant narcissist is that they hate the empath for loving them becosue they secretly hate themselves and can't believe someone actually cares about them and start abusing empaths until discarding them

[@musicbrazilian7065]

​@@sepehradonis6959Ongoing therapy has saved my life and taught me to create boundaries with the malignant narcisists in my life. They are way nicer once I removed my people pleasing tendencies they will find other people to exploit. I think everyone should have the emotional support of a therapist.

[@vodkavuitton]

Nobody is showing them compassion so stop dragging this weak ass story line to further paint yet another flipping motive for why you can't stop your weird obsession & simply move on ✌🏽 get a life & stay tf out of mine.

[@emmagrove6491]

This actually really helps me understand my older sister and the fact that being cruel to others seems to give her relief. Our father was very sadistic and abusive towards her.

[@Wasp239]

So what now? Yes, they feel relief, they feel joy. Some people feel relief from raping and killing, and?

[@azaleaslight3599]

​@@Wasp239Understanding & compassion doesn't = no consequences for the actions Doesn't = its all OK No-one is saying that

[@azaleaslight3599]

Same here I stay away from her, but have loads of compassion for her why she is the way she is 😢

[@PaulHanson-zo5qj]

Same here. Totally Blow's

[@user-ug3st6fn5t]

Same here

[@christinegreene4190]

This describes everything I just went thru with my husband who is a diagnosed Malignant Narcissist. I didn’t know what a narcissist was before this. He turned sadistically evil…It all started making sense once I learned. These have been the worst two years of my life as well as the most threatening and frightening. Thank you for your concise explanations. Before I watched your video, I was under the impression that once his defense mechanisms kicked in, the pendulum of his psychopathy became more severe and he lost touch with reality. It was scary and traumatizing.

[@emilieholtmeier2409]

Mine poisoned us

[@louisestaats234]

@@christinegreene4190 I doubt that he "turned evil." I suspect it was lurking there all the time. Snakes like to hide.

[@leannimalcrackers]

"None of us is responsible for the events that shaped our personality, but we are responsible for what we do about it. The better you come to know yourself, the more empowered you become to make better decisions."👏👏👏

[@pocahontas4583]

I’ve listened to various descriptions of personality disorders/illnesses but it’s when I hear the description of malignant narcissist that every time I’m slapping the table saying “yep! That’s it, hits the nail on the head”. Every little detail the sadism, the paranoia, the inability to understand that other people have their own mind and h thought process. All exactly describes my soon to be ex husband and I would see it but didn’t know how to even put it in words. Just always felt very disturbed and chaotic.

[@sarahs5340]

The problem is a core lack of empathy and not being able to see another individual’s personhood. Also, there is a problem with muted conscience. Another hurdle is the substance abuse disorder that almost always occurs alongside npd.

[@michelle1813]

I think the irony in this is that my theory is this starts because people suffering with narcissism (including malignant NPD) have maybe never or rarely been seen as human by others, they have not been seen in all of their pain and trauma, and so they continue to not be able to feel empathy to others when there’s no empathy acquires from others that is within. They never got the empathy that “normal” people have so it puts them at a disadvantage and they need someone else to truly empathize with their core needs for them to start growing the seeds of empathy.

[@eveningprimrose3088]

This was so my ex-husband. As far as I can tell, he practiced sadism only against me. He definitely got pleasure and stress relief from torturing me, and he almost did succeed in causing my death. Toward all others, he only ever wanted to appear to be a hero, a good guy, and a genius. He skillfully hid his torture of me from others, but our daughter did see some of it. Then she began to abuse me too... Another interesting factor is that I think all three of us are autistic, but only our daughter has been diagnosed. I observed that he treated our gifted daughter as I suspect he had been treated by his mother (who is a very strong person, and obviously narcissistic). Near the end I told him a couple of times that he was either incredibly emotionally stupid or an evil genius, and I just wasn't sure which. At that time he pulled out all the stops to try to end me with psychological torture and utter cruelty. Was I faultless? Of course not. But I did want us to love each other, and I did love him, which only made things worse. How sad that he was incapable of being loved.

[@extinctreminant]

The therapist triggers the fight or flight response and defense mechanisms to activate. Because this topic triggers a lot of memories of really bad experiences. I don’t know if I have NPD, but I definitely have BPD and too much of these videos is overwhelming. Even though I have released myself from the constant state of fight or flight I feel the anxiety returning just from peeling apart the layers of my damage and how I responded and how I treat people today.

[@theodorerooding3536]

Oof. This was hard. I'm a disabled veteran, on my mental health healing journey. You just explained my childhood and why I joined the Army in a time of war. Now to share this with my MH provider and try to grow past these toxic patterns. Thank you.

[@dammitdelta]

As someone who is trying to get better with malignant narcissism, this is extremely accurate and one of the best descriptions I’ve seen of my pathology. I sent it to my partner because it made me feel seen and understood.

[@bullsdeepdish6982]

You are awesome 🎉

[@brittaneewalters2907]

How do you know someone with malignant narcissism can/wants to heal? Is that even possible for all or is there a point where they're too far gone or can never reach healing? My comment about my husband is below. He has the same thing and I've seen outreach but then withdraw and cold hatred...which he is displaying right now. I tried everything with him... Prayer, church, therapy both individual and couples and he only ever said they were supposed look into it... It's so sad but I can't help him, I tried everything and now I have to protect my children because of his history of violence.

[@TheLaurenspomer]

@dammitdelta ... How did you learn that you are a malignant narcissist?

[@CassandraSchuback-ro9qh]

I think I am malignant I feel sick I knew something was wrong I thought I was stressed and my moods then I thought something isn't right I'm not me anymore questioning myself am I too sarcastic putting others down underneath I was so unsure n down but in an instant when my ex asked for a break I became a monster I overeacted vented to family which has caused a smear I really am suicidal I can't forgive myself for realising I abused him I have hurt our kids why am I hurting people now I'm hurting people more cause I can't undo this how do I tell everyone I am evil and how do I stop manipulating

[@CassandraSchuback-ro9qh]

How do we get better when we have hurt everyone I feel bad for the hurt I caused but I am causing more hurt

[@davemckagan635]

My mother was a textbook malignant narcissist. She was the middle child and both of her siblings are normal and well-adjusted adults. So I believe some people are simply born this way.

[@tinkingtinking2134]

My mum was a malignant narcissist, I walked away 8 years ago, she died about 2 years ago and I thought the nightmare was over, how wrong I was. One of older sisters who contacted me about our mother dying has taken her place, she's manipulated our dad into giving her everything in his Will when he passes, he's told me he has to do as he's told because she does so much for him. I'm not aloud to go see him and nor am I aloud to have any of my mums things. Unfortunately my daughter has genetically inherited this narcissism too and im going to have to go no contact with her as well as my father. I have done everything to try stay in these toxic relationships but all it does is continue to make me feel like im the bad one, things I did 45 years ago are thrown at me for why I'm being treated like this, even going no contact makes me feel like a bad person. It's an awful situation to be in but I have to leave them behind.

[@jacquelinegrace3]

❤ Praying for your strength and healing 🙏😌

[@theblackrainbow1]

I don't think narcissism is passed down genetically . You should have a good look at yourself

[@tinkingtinking2134]

@@theblackrainbow1 ok, is that why now my dad has asked me to come down to see him because he knows the way I'm being treated is cruel and he's giving me my mums English blue and white dinner set and has now given me her gold and ruby ring. You seem to have the answers to my family history, what's your interpretation of that????

[@tinkingtinking2134]

@@theblackrainbow1 in other words......naff off,

[@theblackrainbow1]

@@tinkingtinking2134 okay . Your response sheds a bit of light on it all . NPD is not a genetic disorder

[@Leaptab]

Thia video just summed up my mother word for word, it's taken 13 years of research to whittle down what exactly is wrong with my mother i this has confirmed my research pointing to a malignant narcissist. Thank you so much❤

[@amelinda292]

Forever grateful for your calm and measured approach to this very confusing topic. Between your content, and the approach of Sam Vaknin, I feel like that terrifying black hole I have spent so much unconscious energy resisting is getting less turbulent. Life saving, soul feeding experience of actually being able to process the profound grief, unsteady self awareness, and existential dread that comes with being a traumatised little human. My heart aches for all of the pain our species participate in, and mourns for those who have never known thy self.

[@DisEnchantedPersons]

I've been involved with NPDs, I have absolutely no compassion for them. My childhood was far from normal, but I didn't take it out on my loved ones or others.

[@healnpd]

I think it’s a common misconception that different forms of abuse or relational trauma are somehow interchangeable - like if one person had a difficult childhood but didn’t develop these particular issues it is somehow a reflection on their strength - as though they had some choice in the matter of what pathways got laid in their brain in response to events that were outside of their control. The fact is, if you or I had the exact same childhood and the exact same genes as someone who suffers from NPD, then we, too, would suffer from NPD.

[@melliecrann-gaoth4789]

@@healnpd I wouldn’t be so absolute…

[@sandrashane677]

@@melliecrann-gaoth4789 Brain scans have shown that their brains shrink from the abuse. They probably have a genetic predisposition to it as well since it seems to run in families and goes back generations.

[@Not-the-usual-BS]

Absolutely 💯 I’m sick of excuses for bad behavior!!

[@Not-the-usual-BS]

@@healnpd they know exactly what they are doing! They choose to abuse!!

[@TheJellyBabyxxxx]

I found that very helpful, thank you. I've finally gone no contact with my surviving parent, my mother. I tried to do it years ago, when I was in my early 20's. For both my parents as both repeatedly made my childhood a living nightmare. But a well meaning family member let my mother into my home back then as I couldn't get to the front door first or try to explain just a fraction of the actual situation. It's been incredibly hard to recently understand my parents & the true extent of what I've been dealing with. Especially as my dad is now passed. My dad was very detached. & the tiny family budget after essentials, was all his to enjoy himself away from home. He wasn't as scary, dominant, loud & cruel as my mother. But more cold & furtive. When he passed my mother got worse. I didn't think it was possible. For my own safety & sanity, I was left with no other choice but to go no contact recently. I appreciate that there's a raft of behavioural traits within any disorder. That sometimes the person with the disorder feels helpless themselves. Worse still, they're destroying the most precious relationships in their lives. My mother went to counselling years ago. Sadly that made her worse if anything as all the therapist did was give her another stage to solo perform on, without touching on the real reasons. I'd urge anybody who thinks that they may have a personality disorder to seek proper, professional, constructive help. I've known two people in my life who passed, when it looked like they were agitated. It was like by the time they really tried to speak honestly, they were in their final hours of life and unable to. It's so sad.

[@margodphd]

Terminal agitation or "last rally" is a rather frequent phenomenon, but,it rarely has anything to do with our cognition or will to speak honestly. A lot of people interpret it that way - we all want resolution and think if absolution as a needed part of natural passing process. But, nature thinks nothing of our psychological and cultural needs and it's just a metabolic process.

[@isobelle.London]

I still watch this months later .

[@isobelle.London]

I got you’re book 📖 . This explanation of NPD is a lot closer to my personal experience . I’ve had to watch this repeatedly

[@Hewillmakeawaytodayandforever]

This video is one of the most informative videos on malignant narcissism I’ve ever watched.

[@gaetanemcgraw5567]

My friend was abused as a child. He spoke to me about it. Told me that if these things would not have happened to him, his life would have been completely different. I pray for him but I could have stay with him. He was very abusive to me. He could not help himself.

[@kathleenb6375]

I am so appreciative of your videos. So refreshing compared to the demonizing views found online. It seems to me though partners of these malignant narcissists are still better off not cohabiting with them. I have experienced destruction of my life due to this relationship. I had no idea what I was dealing with for 18 years. Now I know but what to do?

[@healnpd]

I agree. Malignant narcissism can be dangerous due to the paranoia, sadism, and psychopathic traits.

[@SamStone1964]

Make discreet plans to move away if you haven't already.

[@persiamotorman]

The Sociopath I know (4 days ago) was threatened with eviction, and so physically threatened his landlord. He told him "You ruined my life, and now I will ruin yours." So, he went into the apartment and set fire to the building. He didn't care about the threat to anyone else's life in the building. He was put in prison for 1 count of aggravated arson (setting fire to an occupied building).

[@mercedesharrison5550]

Wow! My ex who I identify as a dark empath, malignant narc, machiavellian and socio was arrested late last year for M. I spent 10 years with him bc he wouldn't let me get away from him. I can't believe he has committed such an act. His problem was that he'll torture you to the brink of end to get what he wants and I think this time he went too far.

[@zippitydoodah7542]

This is why iij have no sympathy for them. They have no problem with making other peoples lives a living hell

[@AnimosityIncarnate]

​@@zippitydoodah7542 reap what you sow works in both directions. Dehumanizing people will lead to it right back 😭

[@scottwwsi]

I experienced an almost 2 year entanglement with a malignant narc / psychopath / cluster b (I saw all traits back to back most of the time) and I stand firm. no compassion. the worst encounter I've have ever had full-stop.... that 'person' was setting me up to die.....they love inflicting harm and they play everybody, even family....and after being blocked for over 2 years, still calls my phone, ending up in blocked messages.

[@thrivingnow7395]

I changed my phone number.

[@dv8578]

Thank you so much for explaining the difference in NPD and Malignant Narcissism! I have learned so much from your videos! I have been married to the same man for 24 years, I always thought he was Bipolar or Schizophrenic, until recently learning about Narcissism. I have left several times and went back, I left again 6 months ago. I had been increasing deteriorating Physically and Mentally because of the Arguments, Paranoia, Anger, lies, etc I was Exhausted! He doesn’t admit that he has any disorder. I have spent many years trying to make him see Reality! Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!

[@Evaa7162]

I agree with your perspective. It makes a lot of sense. Very enlightening. My malignant narcissist ex was just like you described underneath. Here are some of my observations and conclusions from our relationship: in my non- expert opinion I feel that they have zero distinction beetween themselves and other people - especially those significant others. No respect for boundaries because they CANNOT see them. Everyone around them is just an extension of their SELF, not a separate human being. They will sadistically emotionally abuse significant others just as they sadistically abuse themselves. The latter happens largely subconsciously, the former - I'm still not sure to this day.

[@harmonyvaneaton4101]

Mine screamed into our faces "NO! You are just EXTENSIONS OF ME! You are just parts of MY BODY! You should like what I LIKE! You should feel what I FEEL! You should BE MORE LIKE ME!" Many, many times over the years. There is no reasoning with them, no reaching their heart or mind, and no safety.

[@ruebensfilms]

You and Sam Vaknin have my attention. Thank you, very educational. I extremely like the compassionate flavour you bring. We both have to protect ourselves from people with narcissistic personality disorder and we have to be open to understanding the traumatic effects people with NPD suffer from.

[@pocahontas4583]

Villains in cartoons are actually a very accurate depiction of narcissists/malignant narcissists. For those of us married to them it’s just shocking realizing that person was a villain pretending to love you to get what they want from you, steal your personality, things you have, etc.

[@Analysis_Paralysis]

Wow! I'm so glad I just found your channel... :) This is the most informative video I've watched on the subject of narcissism. The information laid out here confirms my own conclusions about the disorder and the malignancy, especially the sadism part. I'm so proud of myself that I came to these conclusions without studying medicine or psychology!

[@PetrSlavik6969]

High five! Same here! Knowledge is empowering!

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

I'm just starting to watch this, but I'm pretty sure not all narcissists are malignant.

[@Analysis_Paralysis]

@@saintejeannedarc9460 But this video is specifically about malignant narcissism.

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

@@Analysis_Paralysis Yes it is. Maybe I misread how you meant. It sounded like you'd concluded that all narcissists are malignant and sadistic. Apologies if you were only referring to malignant narcissism, which certainly is that way.

[@Analysis_Paralysis]

@@saintejeannedarc9460 Yeah, I was just referring to this subtype.

[@steviep9780]

I burst into tears watching this. This is my identical twin. I'm heartbroken to know that this can't be fixed easily even though I was forced to go no contact because of her extreme gaslighting among other things. THIS is the content I need: factual education, NOT the drivel otherwise out there on KZbin that just demonises the narcissist, however cruel he or she is. That simply doesn't HELP! Thank you so much for this video.

[@healnpd]

I’m glad you found it helpful. Thanks for watching!

[@CraigVerdi-MindfulMoney]

The fact that you are heartbroken is very painful. Thus the videos that you say "demonize" NPD are expressing that. I don't anyone who says narcissists are evil or doing everything on purpose. Mostly they are not. But the damage still happens and we must deal with that.

[@intodewood0598]

Woah, this is coming from your twin? What happened?

[@steviep9780]

@@intodewood0598 I always knew our relationship wasn't normal. She bullied me, beat me up, and told lies about me and to me ever since I can remember. I should have cut her off after I received a letter from her wife telling ME off for having beat HER up our whole lives! Wtf. I finally did stop contact after my heart quite literally broke (it failed). She can live in her own world, but I don't have to prop it up for her as she expects.

[@steviep9780]

@@CraigVerdi-MindfulMoney I appreciate your view that they aren't doing everything on purpose. Some really aren't! But the ones in my family calculate, plan... it becomes obvious after the fact. So it appears our experiences diverge a bit. Thank you for your care and concern.

[@ctlo4403]

Thank you dr. Mark. I really hope this will be in a hundred years be eradicated. No one deserves to feel this and the induced suicidal the narc parents give to their children. I really want to forgive and walk away from the evil cult that killed my mother and my husband. Managed no contact for almost a year. But I cannot have enough to live or retire now and must face the narc. He has been knighted while treating his children and spouses like slaves. God needs him to answer to his sins because I am not able to live and walk away. Please heal them.

[@deb2319]

Arrested Development, Bad Parenting.. Peace, Peace. Peace. I like how well you articulated this topic, thank you. Be Well.

[@PegasusysTarotClub]

My younger sister is either a malignant narcissist or a sociopath. I don't recognize anything that's being posed here. I consciously remember her birth. And when she was a couple of months old she began crying relentlessly. I have not seen any sadistic abuse towards her, quite the contrary. When she was 6 months old, suddenly the crying stopped and she became extremely violent. Everytime I (or anyone else) came close she would do everything she could to hurt that person in the most vicious way). She had serious behavioural problems and all the time she was treated like a princess. I cannot subscribe to the notion of abuse causing NPD. I was the one who was systematically abused by almost all family members, including my younger sister. She was treated with all the attention and she always got what she wanted, most of the time at my expense. I believe there is something else going on. Later I had a narcissistic partner who also told me that he cried a lot when he was a child. And after the crying stopped, narcissistic behaviours came up. He claimed he was never abused in any way by his family.

[@CharlyArea]

Around 6 months, your sister started to eat solid food? Maybe can be an hidden allergy or intolerance?

[@PegasusysTarotClub]

@@CharlyArea my sister was extensively examined by several doctors and specialists. No physical cause was found.

[@CharlyArea]

@@PegasusysTarotClub Thanks for your answer. I could see with my own eyes in a near person, as hidden allergy can transform the behaviour in the terms similar as you described. I'm not specialist, but I have the feeling, a group of people with hidden allergies, can shows behaviour which they can go inside by the label "NPD".

[@PegasusysTarotClub]

@@CharlyArea That's something that should be looked into. It would be amazing if people with behavioral disorders could be treated! If allergies can cause that, (which I wasn't aware of) that could be a relatively easy fix for these issues! Would you mind sharing what specific allergy was causing this? Or is it a general effect of allergies?

[@CharlyArea]

@@PegasusysTarotClub In the case I met, the link was with chocolate / caffeine. When this person stopped to consume it, the behaviour changed tremendously. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK436949/ I recommend you to read this study. I am not telling always the cause of NPD is because of it, but, I could see with my own eyes, this person had a lot of patterns of NPD, and when stopped it, the behaviour was from rage to a better mental calm state. When you told about the story of your sister, and you mencionated the age of 6 months like a change on her, to me had sense to think was the age when she started to receive solid food. Maybe, a part of people could be inside in the label "NPD", can have an allergy is producing this patterns. Because if the brain has inflammation, has all sense to show an "anormal" behaviour.

[@macnchessplz]

THANK YOU, for explaining this in an easy ‘ish way for a layperson to understand. There are so many types of narcissism it can be difficult to discern. Looking forward to watching more.

[@nandivanqa-mgijima646]

Indeed, "None of us is responsible for the events that shaped our personality. However, we are responsible for what we do about it. The better you come to know yourself, the more empowered you become to make better decisions." ❤

[@Antonocon]

This is the best explanation of this I’ve ever seen. I will be watching this video again and checking out those papers. My father is exactly like this and I have spent a sizable percentage of time in my life around others like this. Mostly in the past now, thankfully.

[@healnpd]

Glad it was helpful!

[@lisbethbird8268]

I'm so glad to see/hear a knowledgeable, qualified professional making this distinction. Thank you.

[@LordMalignance]

Thank you for including Evil in the description in as much as the origin. Not accepted clinically, it Does point to a spectrum beyond the accepted models.

[@user-tu6xw2pr9s]

Thank you for your compassion and expertise. I feel both camps of the KZbin approaches are needed. Living with a pwNPD had been so destructive to me and my children. We believed in compassion and care for the pwNPD. It was weaponized against us and now we have so much to heal from. Please consider both are true, and yes the pwNPD is treated very harshly. They have treated us closet to them very harshly and we need someone to validate the way we have been treated by the pwNPD.

[@javireyes7333]

Right

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

It is important to be validated too, esp. if you're still in that toxic relationship, you most likely have to get away for the wholeness of you and your children. Do watch out for channels that validate though, because they can keep you stuck in a victim mindset that isn't healthy for eventual healing. There does need to be a balance. If you were in a sadistic type of relationship like what he describes in this video, then all my sympathies, and please get away. This does not seem to be most narcissists though.

[@PetrSlavik6969]

What is the psychological breaking point in our childhood that decides if we're going to be either overly empathetic with people pleasing tendencies OR extremely self-centered with malignant tendencies? What is the moment or trait that determines the final coping strategy?

[@Narcissism-TheDarknessintheWor]

Choice. - I was abused physically and emotionally daily since birth for 2 decades. I was also r@ped at 18. I genuinely thought I'd be killed by Dad and only stayed to protect my Mum, sister and cat (he despised women and animals). My Mum and Dad blackmailed me into not telling anyone and I thought he'd kill my family if I did. I've been empathic since I was a young kid and would never abuse anyone.

[@Narcissism-TheDarknessintheWor]

And I'm not overly empathic. I don't give it to the wrong peolle unless such people manipulate out of me... When I find out they're being manipulative I go permanent no contact. But I believe I am a 'super empath', as HG Tudor (a self confessed 'greater or ultra' narcissist) describes in his videos.

[@reflectonthings3008]

@@Narcissism-TheDarknessintheWorI don’t think it’s a choice,I think it has to do with the temperament of the person which they say one have already at birth and a lot of small details in the brain that affect how we see reality & interpret it.choice is a very slippery slope I think.

[@Narcissism-TheDarknessintheWor]

@@reflectonthings3008 interesting, it's definitely a combination of factors. I believe to abuse itself is a choice though... In all honesty, I'm not entirely sure why the self centredness starts at such a young age for many of them. 🤷‍♀️

[@Narcissism-TheDarknessintheWor]

@@reflectonthings3008 as in I can't wrap my mind around it as I've always had a lot of empathy even when I was a kid... The empathy had already developed maybe not to its' fullest extent, but I remember having the choice to act 'good' or 'bad'... I don't even wanna say bad but 'naughty'... 🤣 Because it wasn't anything major and I never had bad intentions... I remember. Maybe if I'd have been more like my Dad and abused animals or went fishing and been the son he wanted - he said he wanted sons not daughters himself - I'd have received fewer beatings. Couldn't even bring myself to go fishing at a young age because I remember thinking I don't want to hurt the fish - put a hook through their mouth and knife them or crush them as they're suffocating from being out of the ocean. Turns out they can actually feel pain, it's been scientifically proven, so I'm glad I didn't go fishing and erred on the side of caution. 🐟🙏 Another thing that made me feel physically sick is when kids would step on ants in a colony of ants or whatever and deliberately crush them... Couldn't do it, wouldn't do it. Saw a group of boys who had gone crabbing (they had taken crabs from the lake and put them in their bucket) who were grabbbing the crabs from their bucket and cutting off the legs of a crab and laughing then throwing them back into the lake without some of their limbs, and laughing at the crabs as they tried to stumble to the lake... I was infuriated and had adrenaline pumping through me instantly. My Mum and I went up to them and confronted them and made sure they stopped doing that... This is what I mean by perhaps my level of empathy hadn't developed to its' fullest extent, because those boys probably just went off and did it elsewhere because they were smiling when we were confronting them albeit they seemed a bit cowardly at that point as I think we mentioned the authorities and were persistent in our condemning of them being freaks but they were trying to act 'hard'... Nowadays, I would have realised that I was completely justified in my *righteous anger,* realised they'd do it again by the fact that they're still laughing and cut off their fingers and/or hands to make sure they didn't do it again because they were acting 'hard' smiling, albeit they were timid when my Mum and I confronted these freaks of nature... They only acted timid to avoid getting in trouble with the authorities, they were still laughing and said 'it's just a crab'... Who the *fuck* does that to a crab apart from a sadist who thinks he's "Godlike"... Who laughs at a crab while they're cutting of its' limbs and watching it stumble to the lake? FREAKS. That's who. You don't even want to know what I'd do nowawadays. I'm *VERY* impulsive even when it puts me in harms way. I've risked death several times due to witnessing abuse of animals... Why would I care about risking someone elses' life as well, let alone the life of a waste of space abuser? In that moment, I don't have free will, I put myself in harms way because my subconscious mind *completely* takes over... I'm not even joking. At that point I don't register any conscious thought... Because I'm not thinking. I'm angry, I'm hurt, an injustice has occured, correct it immediately, that's all I know... I'm not even thinking that, because I'm not thinking but that's the message coming from the anger that has been triggered by witnessing the abuse of another, *especially an innocent, infinitely precious non-human animal.* Maybe it's due to being abused from a young age but I have a *complete inability* to regulate my own emotions, *especially when I see the abuse of others, and especially when those others are innocent, vulnerable non-human animals who are infinitely precious and Godlike by their very nature.* Evil is evil. I will *NOT* allow for it to happen, especially *NOT IN MY PRESENCE.*

[@PetrSlavik6969]

Thank you for your perspective, which is quite rare considering current popular sources for cluster b disorders. Your approach (hypothesizing the origin of NPD as well as it's manifestation in the adulthood) "feels" more accurate when I compare it to my personal experience.

[@rockybalboa4593]

This gave me chills. This was my ex partner to a T and he camouflaged it behind kink/BDSM attempting to masquerade as a Dominant. He had all of these traits. All of them. The fact that he tries to camouflage it and just claim he is kinky indicates to me he’s very self aware of what he is. I got discarded as soon as I told him I believe he is a narcissist or antisocial. He already had another person lined up and had been carrying multiple hidden relationships with others behind my back

[@healnpd]

Significant psychopathy and sadism in a personality can make the individual quite dangerous under the right circumstances. Glad you are taking care of yourself and leaving relationships that aren’t healthy for you.

[@jennetteoverzet2959]

New information has opened the idea that narcissistic personality is now able to slide on the scale...

[@theblackrainbow1]

With all due respect, the hurt a narcissist causes can not be overlooked. Talking about NPD as if the sufferer was the victim is very triggering when you are trying to overcome and heal the abuse of a narcisitic mother . I understand she feels bad and worthless and unloved ect . But she categorically refuses to admit she has an issue . Instead she tries to make everyone else around her feel worse so she can get a kick of supply. There are many more mental illnesses and at some stage people with those illnesses recognise there is a problem . But narcissists almost never do . I believe it's out of choice

[@healnpd]

Why are you continuing to watch content on my channel if you find it triggering? I understand that you may have stumbled across the first video you commented on, saying you found it triggering. But this is now the second video you’ve watched and commented that it is triggering. It’s okay if you are not at a point in your own healing journey where this sort of analysis of the psychology behind pathological or malignant narcissism feels okay to hear. I would recommend you stop watching videos like this and focus on your own healing. Come back to this sort of information when you feel less reactive to it.

[@theblackrainbow1]

@@healnpd okay, I'll stop watching your content . I didn't mean to be offensive . For some time I thought there's no hope that my mother would ever get better and I found your content that says she could, or at least in my understanding. I'm sorry to be a bother

[@healnpd]

You’re not being a bother. 😊 I’m honestly concerned for your mental health and well-being. It seems like you need to focus on you right now, and getting a better handle on adaptive boundaries with your mother. I hope you’ll come back when it feels safer for your mental health to do so. 🙂

[@irinadumitru9088]

I enjoy the use of your cartoon characters for understanding better certain malign personality disorders.I pretty much agree with your malignant narcissistic model!😊

[@Bizarro69]

Ego-syntonic sadism mixed with the anti social sounds terrifying.

[@gaetanemcgraw5567]

Excellent! I have shared your video with a good friend. Narcissists are not evil they are mentally ill.

[@michaelmcgee335]

Some are definitely evil.

[@AnimosityIncarnate]

​@@michaelmcgee335 stop splitting.

[@Ssethtzeentach_enjoyer]

@@gaetanemcgraw5567 What makes you say they aren't evil? To go on the extreme end, I would say all of them are evil and the ones that get "better" are just putting on an act.

[@mollyringwerm9224]

This was a very cohesive, thorough and clear explanation of this construct. Idk if you take recommendations, but I'd love to hear your opinion on the differences/similarities in the function of projective identification in narcissism vs. borderline.

[@healnpd]

I do consider recommendations. Thanks for making one. 😊

[@PetrSlavik6969]

@@healnpd please, if you consider, your view on what choices we see and make in early childhood that determine if we cope with trauma by being narcissistic or inversely empathetic. I believe the childhood trauma experience may be similar, but the coping mechanism is different. I enjoyed prof.Vaknin"s view that you go through different strategies, e.g. BPD, NPD, psychopathy (for the sake of simplicity), and you stop at the one that finally works for you. Thank you. Live long and prosper :)

[@loonysama105]

I love your channel and I can't thank you enough for what you're doing! You totally nail it and It's nice to be seen and to be thought of as a person who is in incredible pain instead of the monster most of the Internet and people IRL believe. I was wondering if you'd do a video about a connection between NPD and pathological narcissism and DID and other kinds of plurality. I think a lot of the things you said really feel like a plural experience, particularly with dissociation and splitting. I know they're often co-morbid, but I've not been able to find much about it through internet searches other than harmful and uninformed lists.

[@BodyLanguageAnalysisInterrogat]

This was a FANTASTIC video & explains why Borderline Organization is observed in various personalities. If you feel that gaslighting or abuse you received was more of a breaking down & destruction you - received as more intense, see Malignant Narricisim in this video series. It may more align with one experience. Thank you for all of your videos.

[@gloria6396]

THANK YOU FOR THESE RELIABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION WHEN IT COMES TO NARCISSISM MANY PSYCHOLOGISTS ON YOU TUBE DO MORE ARM THAN GOOD

[@jesseskellington9427]

7:10 (Enemies, or fools, or Idols) in individuals. This is amazing precised language thank you so much for this concept! This helps me make sense out of the problems I have with other individuals turning me into another within these three formats. It almost feels like stages that my experience with them go through. To combat this I have just learned two walk away and move on to other individuals and groups. In gamer terims. I have learned to level grind friends and groups. So I'm never left stock having to live within this framework.

[@Cassie-pt7mt]

You described my raging, abusive, alcoholic father. It was terrifying at home. I was the Scapegoat and I still believe that everything bad was my fault. I guess that's pretty narcissistic. My Golden Child older sister has become a charming bully. She fawns to get you off guard then, lashes out with rage. I know that we both grew up in the same family. But, we responded to my father's abuse completely different. I stood up to him and was rage-beaten. My sister became the perfect, compliant, mini me of my Dad. Now, she abuses and controls and rages, just as he did. I have become a codependent, people pleaser, just like our enabling mother.

[@CraigVerdi-MindfulMoney]

Great Video. Very insightful and easy to understand.

[@healnpd]

Glad it was helpful!

[@michellembarre5032]

Amazing simplifies version! Theory put into story often helps-even master level clinicians on this subject. Makes me want to continue my Dr 👩‍⚕️ on this fascinating subject we seem to be encountering more often.

[@healnpd]

Thanks for your feedback, and for watching. 😊

[@selfesteem3447]

Dr. MARK, Great 👍 Video, REALLY HELPFUL in understanding the Malignant. WELL EXPLAINED. I am grateful for you work, GREAT Channel. Thank You !

[@healnpd]

Glad it was helpful!

[@SherriBoggs-kj2lk]

Thank you so much for sharing your excellent understanding with us! Incredible work! You've filled in SO many blanks.

[@spartacusjonesmusic]

I found this very helpful in understanding the behavior of someone I have to deal with. Your description of malignant narcissism explains a lot.

[@nandivanqa-mgijima646]

Woow, this is profound, it is so helpful for my healing journey from malignant narcissism, a very brutalvtype of narcissism. However through this video i have gained objectivity when looking at narcissism especially the likelihood of the root cause. Woow, thank i am today your follower, after having listen to many, your presentation is paramount. Thank you

[@kathleendinsmore7588]

Your content is thought provoking. The image from narcissistic abuse recovery community of the perennial boogeyman/woman is often oversimplified. Narcissists are damaged people. Codependents are damaged as well and sometimes our maladaptive behaviors can be almost as toxic as that of the narcissists we have served. It’s a vicious cycle particularly damaging to children. At least we’re talking about it. 30 years ago I was met with so much resistance when coming to terms with my own mother’s cruelty. I was expected to try harder, be more understanding but I knew nothing was going to change. This was long before I even knew what narcissism meant let alone scapegoating. It’s important to be compassionate but finding common ground with those suffering from NPD can feel more like you would have better success negotiating with a terrorist!

[@kalekidanwoldesenbet8199]

Thank you for sharing this vital information. You helped me to understand people who are suffering from this disorder ❤❤❤❤

[@vesnatalevska9000]

They are cultivated, not born. They make them…the best looking child the golden child gets the most abuse and marks them a future predator. They get the honour to carry the line of evil. They r sadistic and hate people and told forced to suck up there emotions and take the pain of abuse without crying.

[@user-if2wl7hs6w]

I would agree. I come from a narcissistoc family, father grandiose, mother covert, sister malignant. Still, I 'd say my mothers NPD is the most severe form, even if she does not have the sadism or paranoia of my-sib. My n-sib functions pretty well, but has an incredible hunger for power and control, even more than my father, who had more rage issues. Interesting videos to understand these folks (helps to get rid of the confusion and questions).

[@russruss2446]

This is interesting. Malignant narcissism does not equal NPD. Unfortunately, knowledge about how malignant narcissists came to be is most commonly used to facilitate, justify, sympathise and accept their behaviour. Abused women do this all the time. Children are traumatised and become narcissistic themselves, or lifelong shaking people pleasers. The childhood trauma explanation of malignant narcissism also minimises or ignores choice. All people, especially malignant nacissists, can choose how they treat people, regardless of upbringing. These people are not schizophrenic. Yet they consistently chose deception, manipulation and cruelty. Malignant narcissists do not change. If you see the signs you need to run away. No more knowledge is needed.

[@healnpd]

Why do you say, “of all people *especially* malignant narcissists can choose how they treat people…?” What is it, in your opinion, about malignant narcissism that might give individuals with that form of mental illness enhanced ability to choose their behavior, over and above even the general population of individuals *without* mental illness? 🤔

[@russruss2446]

@@healnpd Malignant narcissists (and other narcissists) like my overt father and covert stepfather learned decent behaviour by parroting others. This was pointed out to me about them 35 years ago, long before this new infatuation with narcissism. Narcissists must parrot because they have no intuitive sense of decency, little or no empathy. They also learn cruelty. They then choose decency or cruelty depending on who they are manipulating and what they want to achieve. They get really, really good at reading people and build a repertoire of behaviours started when they were kids. They are actors, like people reading from a script. They develop a bunch of scripts they can draw from, and they know exactly which one they are choosing at any given time. They face a thousand choices a day so they get good at making even the tiniest ones. I do understand your point that not all NPDs are the same.

[@healnpd]

I’m sorry for your experience with your family members. I do think that you are missing an important piece of this puzzle. You are describing clear social and emotional deficits: impaired empathy, difficulty discerning and following social norms, difficulty with genuine intimacy, etc. These abilities play critical roles in helping us to understand human interaction. Without them, or if they are impaired, then we have more difficulty, not less, decoding and understanding human behavior and relationships. These impairments result in skewed perception, faulty judgement, low insight, and emotional disconstraint. It is a recipe for *less* ability to live consciously, not more. To be clear, I am not arguing that narcissists or malignant narcissists are never aware of their actions or the effects they have on others. But I am arguing against the idea that they somehow have enhanced perceptive abilities or enhanced insight. I am also arguing that they, like all people with personality disorders or significant psychopathology, have less control over their actions due to underlying impairments and deficits. This should not be read as an excuse or justification for abusive behavior. We don’t need to posit evil as an explanation where dysfunction will suffice.

[@russruss2446]

​@@healnpd Interesting conversation. I would assert that we don't need to posit dysfunction where "evil" would suffice. I don't mean evil in the religious sense, but rather meanness, selfishness, dishonesty, sadism and general lack of caring about other people. I have not experienced that malignant narcissists have "impaired" abilities to discern social norms. On the contrary, I find that they have enhanced perceptive abilities. They have practiced lying and manipulation since they were little kids. They often have an astounding ability to identify that which is most important to you and use it against you. They figure out how you feel, but the only emotional response they get from such knowledge is envy, anger or exhilaration over getting new information they can use. I know one guy who is extraordinarily social and highly successful professionally. Nobody would assert he has any social or emotional deficits. But if you are related to him and have seen what he does behind the curtain you know exactly how he feels. In fact, he has confided in me. All his interactions are fake, even the rage. He told me so. He is fully aware of himself. The only skewed perception he has is a tendency to believe that all people are always out to get him. But he's fully aware that his perception is skewed. I will concede that they have "impared" emotional empathy but that is just a eufemism for not giving a hoot about others. I have absolutely not experienced that they have less control over their actions than normal people. On the contrary, their entire existence is about control - control of their false and true selves and control over the perceptions and actions of others. They are extraordinary at controlling everything. Their 10,000 hours in life was spent learning control and they are experts.

[@loonysama105]

OP, as a person with diagnosed NPD your comments are incredibly hurtful. Maybe what you describe is true for some people with NPD or pathological narcissism, but it is definitely not true for most of us, myself included. I have hurt people before, and I didn't know what I was doing until my mid-30s. It was not a choice; it was survival. Even now that I know - and believe me it took almost a decade to come to terms with my diagnosis, a large part in response to the kinds of hurtful and uninformed things you've said. Unless you identify as someone with narcissistic traits, please refrain from telling us or anyone else how we feel. (As for this person who told you that's how they felt - been there, done that and that was the lie I told because it was better than the truth. Maybe some of us lie, but it's not to deceive or hurt; it's because it's the only way. Have you ever considered that?) Anyway, statements like yours is the very kind of thing that contributes to the development of narcissistic traits, and if not that, keeps us from getting treatment for it. How can we change when we're put in a box saying we can't? Please also refrain from diagnosing people with a disorder you do not understand, do not try to understand, and do not have any empirical proof that they have. I'm truly sorry for the pain you've experienced, and I'm not invalidating it at all (btw, that's called empathy, something I've worked very hard to achieve because it is possible for us to change when we know we are disordered and can come to terms with it), but I kindly ask you to extend empathy toward people like me who have already grown up with severe pain, as you've acknowledged, who, instead of being given the help we need are met with people villainizing us. It cannot be overstated that people with NPD and pathological narcissism experience shame to the Nth degree. For me, it's so physically painful that I can't even drive for fear of having an episode and getting into an accident. Comments like yours made me feel ashamed and unable to face something I would have been able to face years before (and hurt so many fewer people) if there wasn't such a stigma. Saying that we have a choice is also harmful to victims of abuse by people with NPD and pathological narcissism because it implies that they have a choice to endure the abuse, and that is not always the case. Let me reiterate: I do not want to cause anyone harm and I never have. I've done it because that was the model of behavior I had growing up and because I didn't know how to exist otherwise and later - even now - because people have violated the boundaries I have set up to protect everyone else. (To be clear, I'm not victim-blaming. I have pre-emptively protected everyone around me because I don't otherwise have a way not to hurt them. Sometimes it is even physically painful to hold back. It's not a sustainable method, but it's what I have while I am working toward a more functional existence and not living with overwhelming pain and feelings of shame I wouldn't even wish on my abusers. Though, very likely, they did live like this, and acknowledging that they were also in pain has helped me to heal more than anything else. In my opinion, you cannot learn empathy until you acknowledge that because that is the only way to sever the self-object bond with them and build feelings of self-worth and acceptance and all the things that go with it. None of that would be possible if hurting people was a choice. That doesn't mean I forgive them, though. It means I know that what they did to me wasn't because I was bad or "evil" as you mentioned; it was because they weren't able to not hurt me. Maybe acknowledging that would help you to heal, as well. And I do not have a "false self" I've intentionally constructed to deceive people. Let me also point out that that kind of statement is also harmful to people identifying as plural, including DID, which I also have. None of us are fake or "constructed" to fool anyone else into a false sense of security. Our system was created so we could survive the kind of abuse you've described. AGAIN, PEOPLE WITH NPD AND PATHOLOGICAL NARCISSISM ARE SURVIVALISTS, NOT "SADISTS." (@healnpd I take issue with this label because from my experience what may appear to be sadism from the outside - yes, I've been given this label - is actually a dissociative experience which I'm not really connected to, and as far as I can tell, it's the only way to hurt people without being crushed by guilt. It's not because it gave me pleasure. This is something that I have not previously had control over but am working toward it. I doubt most so-called malignant narcissists are even aware of their dissociation because take it from someone who knows, when dissociation is the only way you've ever known how to exist, it feels normal and you wouldn't know something was wrong, especially for dissociation where you don't experience amnesia. You can't even rely on other people to tell you because despite what we see in Fight Club and Split, most of the time outsiders don't know because of survival. I had 30 years of therapy before getting my DID diagnosis.) I hope OP can be open-minded and rethink their perspective. At the very least, please stop armchair-diagnosing people and spreading harmful, exaggerated at best, and generalized comments about us on the Internet.

[@googlespyfranchise9089]

Can there be a malignant form of borderline? Or would it simply mean the person had a comorbidity between the two? I know someone who has the emotional lability, warmth and affect of Bpd when not triggered (no devaluing, no noticeable grandiosity), but when triggered they would become everything this video described, particularly the sadism, which I came to sadly realise may have been pleasurable and propping up a repressed aspect of self esteem, but your description that it is more about fear- becoming the big bad wolf means you’re less scared of it (I noticed a fear of abandonment also) makes sense as well. Thank you for describing the difference between this form of Npd and standard Npd, it really helps to explain differences I’ve noticed. Best content on this topic that I’ve found.

[@mikekaren2128]

It is amazing how many of the classic fairytales mirror unifying psychological themes and pathological inter-personal dynamics as if the storyteller was attempting to convey to children common human experiencing that they themself suffered in childhood. 😮 Red Riding Hood, Hansel and Gretel, Snow White etc. Good job, young man! ❤

[@fionabeyleveld2571]

My sister and i were raised in a loving home. Best parents ever. Yet my sister is a narcist and has caused so much pain in our whole family. So i dont agree on blaming the parents!!!

[@healnpd]

It's sometimes said that no two children were raised in the same family. Family roles can be dramatically different between siblings, depending on birth order, what's going on in the family when each is an infant, parent health, financial circumstances, etc. Such events can have tremendous impact on one sibling because of their developmental stage when they occurred, while having relatively little impact on the other sibling. I also notice what appears to be some idealization in your comment ("best parents ever"). Do you think your sister would agree with that assessment? If not, what makes her perspective wrong and yours valid? In dysfunctional family systems, there are often specific roles played by the children. One may be the golden child/hero. That child is treated as a good object by the parents and consistently praised, while another child may be the identified patient or family scapegoat. The family will scratch their heads about why that one member is ill or has problems, not realizing that the whole family has been subtly dumping their issues on that family member for decades. Don't know if that's your family, but I've seen it often enough.

[@lcarvalho75]

That was an excellent video. Very interesting and informative. It highlights a few different ways to think about some events in my past. Thank you, and please keep up the good work.

[@healnpd]

Thanks!

[@angeliquedrake9398]

How would you change this? How do I change this? I identify with everything you said. I don’t have any remorse. How do I change?

[@healnpd]

A person might lack remorse for a number of reasons. Some might be organic, other might be psychological. If you identify with this description of malignant narcissism, then you should see a mental health professional if you haven’t already done so. They could provide you with a proper diagnosis and help you determine what can be changed. But even if it were determined that you can’t develop a stronger feeling of empathy or remorse, it doesn’t mean that you can’t be a good person.

[@sweet2sourr]

Great editing 👏🏼

[@healnpd]

Thanks for that

[@Ideasandspirit]

Excellent video! Thank you ❤

[@hollyharte7831]

My daughters father and daughter have this. I'm genuinely concerned. Beautifully articulated.

[@kinleychimmi8689]

@@hollyharte7831 everyone has narcissism on spectrum even yourself. As long as it’s not your whole personality it’s fine

[@keithstewart7514]

Clearly informative, new subscriber. THANKS

[@sweet2sourr]

Would Kanika Bantra from KZbin fit? She identifies with both NPD and ASPD. She has been diagnosed with both formally.

[@themakuachronicles]

There should be laws against people with these traits having any right or the privilege to deny their need for treatment, and be allowed in the general population, if they cause significant harm and lasting damage to others for nothing more than to serve their own pleasure and satisfaction !!! To just…allow these types to be unconditionally exposing their recklessness and cruelty just so they can feel comfortable with their insidiously fractured self, is a real threat to public health and safety and should therefore be treated as such!! Just like any other infectious and incurable disease like TB, HIV, or AIDS!

[@ethanjohnson228]

That's a terrible idea

[@Staying_aliveforwomen]

I agree.Dr Ramani position on this would be too

[@ignaciaugarte4711]

Could you do a video when someone with NPD goes to jail how may affect grandiosity , vulnerability , will they self reflect and accept what they done ? Will they accept the shame and learn to process ?

[@yuchoob]

Hi. Thank you for this very interesting video. I am interested in learning how to respond to a narcissistic family member who has done a great deal of damage over the course of three decades. Virtually all advice about this I've found is to either go "no contact" or to "grey rock" the narcissist (essentially bore them by avoiding situations where you can get baited). I have no doubt that these methods work in the sense that they can liberate people from the influence of the narcissist, which of course can be hugely important. However, I am also aware that, of course, the narcissist a) didn't choose to be a narcissist, b) doesn't have the self-control or ability to stop, c) is suffering internally; his/her inner experience is filled with powerful negative feelings almost all the time. I don't mean to justify enabling narcissists in any way, but I do question the humanity of the recommended response. Is going no contact/grey rocking the most humane of responses the average person can opt for? Put another way: if we considered NPD as a form of illness, it seems cruel to abandon the ill person and force them to live out the suffering they experience without support. Would we do this for any other illness? If a narcissist's internal subjective experience is filled with suffering, and then - on top of this - has to deal with people cutting him/her off, would this increase the likelihood of depression, drug abuse and even suicide? I've tried to look for reliable information about the latter too but I can't find any evidence one way or another. Do narcissists have a greater than average likelihood to develop suicidal ideation, especially after people have cut off/reduced contact? Sorry to write such a long comment and ask so many questions. Thank you in advance for any thoughts you might want to share about this.

[@NeekATL]

This needed a response, very insightful. I’m wracked with guilt, yet she was trying to turn me against my family. I STILL feel guilty, losing sleep, etc. it’s a shame really. I don’t know whether it would be better to just stay gone after realizing that, or at least giving them a chance to talk. Yet I regret it every time I have with the vindictive behavior. It sucks, maintain faith in yourself.

[@ashaikhyashukhualashaikh]

it feels like you, Mr. Ettensohn, are saying only domestic abuse contributes to forms of narcissism, so what about being spoiled and pampered? doesnt that also lead to narcissism? arent spoiled and pamepered indivduals considered grandiose narcissists that have yet to feel insecurity and vulnerability? If not, what would they be considered as?

[@healnpd]

The literature often points to a particular combination of cold, aggressive, or cruel treatment of the child in combination with overvaluation of the child for one or more favored qualities. While being spoiled or pampered may set someone up to be egocentric or entitled, it would not necessarily create the internal fragmentation and conflict found in pathological narcissism. It’s not enough that the person is entitled or selfish - that alone is not pathological narcissism. This is where the diagnostic criteria of the DSM gets it only 50% right because it largely misses the mental illness part of NPD. In your question, you use the phrase “domestic abuse,” which is most often associated with physical violence - at least in the US. The kind of early experience (combined with a temperamental or genetic vulnerability) that is thought to contribute to most personality disorders is called relational trauma. It does not have to be overt. It can be the cumulative impact of years of subtle neglect or emotional invalidation, or it can be a sudden and traumatic loss or tragedy in the family sustained at just the right moment in psychological development and that has lasting consequences down the line.

[@ashaikhyashukhualashaikh]

@@healnpd Okay thank you for Clarifying

[@Prometheuspredator]

I do understand your thoughts about this.

[@knick9318]

You say that malignant narcissism is made up of grandiose npd and antisocial traits. That's misleading. Almost all NPDs are a mix of covert and overt to a degree. Especially in the case of extreme NPD people are a mix of both covert and overt. Malignant Narcissists can be covert, overt, or both. The picture of Walter White you show is a good example of a mainly covert malignant narcissist.

[@healnpd]

This is what I mean when I use the terms over and covert: Overt Or Covert NPD? (the answer will surprise you) kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqKbqopsp9hon9k

[@knick9318]

Saying Grandiose NPD implies that malignant narcissists can't be vulnerable or covert narcissists.

[@healnpd]

@knick9318 - I’m speaking to the particular defensive constellation thought to be a factor in malignant narcissism. All individuals with pathological narcissism have underlying vulnerabilities. In typical narcissistic pathologies, the vulnerabilities are compensated by grandiose defenses. However, the person remains subject to periodic collapse of grandiosity into the underlying vulnerability. In malignant narcissism, the grandiose false self is fused with aggression, making it easier to maintain the defenses via projection and cruel treatment of others. According to the model used in the video, this configuration makes it less unlikely for a malignant narcissist to collapse into the underlying vulnerability.

[@Julia-2709]

I am a narcissist but not a malignant narcissist a former friend of mine is and I am very interested about that topic. Thank you for this video and your videos in general

[@Thenamelessnarcissist]

So I'm curious what your take is on this. I've always been kinda dubious about the use of the term malignant narcissist as a construct because of the lack of literature in relation to it. And the fact that there is no empirical evidence that I'm aware of that supports it. Of course people like that obviously exist to some degree, but do you think it's even a stable enough construct for it to be relevant to treatment? Kinda curious cause I have mixed feelings on it lol Thanks!

[@healnpd]

I think the concept has limited clinical utility outside of forensic applications. That being said, I also think it is beneficial for clinicians to understand the role that primitive aggression plays in (some) narcissistic and (most) antisocial presentations, and also the role of sadism in certain clinical situations. I didn't go into it in the video, but Kernberg also discusses the role of sadism in certain kinds of self-harm, where the patient isn't enacting self-directed aggression but rather sadistic cruelty toward the clinician in an attempt to make the clinician feel powerless, small, inept, worried, or afraid. Essentially, self-harm or suicidality can be a power-move for some psychologies, used in a perverse manner to prop-up grandiosity via humiliation of the therapist. Therapists who don't understand this variation would make the mistake of trying to support the patient in the usual ways, not realizing that such interventions are only further inflaming the patient and contributing to more acting out. To the extent that pathological narcissism is about excluding unwanted aspects of the self from awareness, I think it is important that clinicians not collude by *also* excluding the "ugly" parts of a patient's psychology from awareness. Therapists want to like their patients, and this can create a conflict of interest in which the therapist unconsciously tries not to see less flattering aspects of the patient's personality. Not only does this do a disservice to the patient, but it also endangers the treatment. Therapists can unwittingly inflict further narcissistic injury on patients by refusing to see the whole picture. Clinicians should strive to see the aggression, hatred, envy, and even sadism in a patient, while also working to develop a compassionate understanding of those facets - both in order to lessen the likelihood of such "malignancies" derailing the treatment, and also to help the patient begin to integrate those facets of their psychology into a more cohesive experience of selfhood.

[@_femme_fatale]

ЗДРАВСТВУЙ! МНЕ КАЖЕТСЯ ТВОЙ ПОСЛЕДНИЙ РОЛИК О ИЕРАРХИИ - ЭТО ОДИН ИЗ ЛУЧШИХ ТВОИХ РОЛИКОВ! Я ПОНИМАЮ, О ЧЕМ ТЫ ГОВОРИШЬ. ПОЖАЛУЙСТА, СНИМИ ЕЩЕ РОЛИК НА ТЕМУ - КТО ТЫ ВНУТРИ? ПРО СВОЕ ЭГО. РАССКАЖИ, КАК ТЫ ЭТО ВИДИШЬ. ТЫ НЕ СУЩЕСТВУЕШЬ ВНУТРИ. РАССКАЖИ ОБ ЭТОМ ПОДРОБНЕЕ

[@michellembarre5032]

Would you think that Attachment theory obviously but the avoidant-approach and malignant narcissism are most highly correlated?

[@healnpd]

My dissertation looked at the relationship between narcissism and adult attachment styles. The grandiose expression was correlated with the dismissing-avoidant style, while the vulnerable expression of narcissism was correlated with the fearful-avoidant attachment style. I did not look at malignant narcissism…but to the extent that malignant narcissism contains aspects of grandiosity, I would imagine it would be more correlated with dismissing-avoidant attachment.

[@Analysis_Paralysis]

Erich Fromm suggests that narcissists aren't able to form *any* attachments, which makes quite a lot of sense! Their attachment style is non-existent. They simply do not get attached to others.

[@NeekATL]

She said I reminded her of her dad. I didn’t know whether to be insulted or taken it as a compliment.

[@JoyProto-mj5jl]

I have bpd and an addictive personality since December 2013 , I got a docter s note from a specialist.

[@JoyProto-mj5jl]

It a not a mental illness but a personality disorder, if I take medication, your fine.

[@JoyProto-mj5jl]

Drinking is a no no because it s binge drinking , if I know myself I will not get in trouble.

[@pixelchick95]

I would love to see a video on how autism can interact with malignant narcissism

[@lsassy6401]

This sounds 💯 like my ex. I suspected it, definitely called it before. I became so fucking enraged by his caregivers he had no choice to have. Ive cried many nights wishing he never had to be forced to develop like he has, that he never should have faced such cruelty so that he wouldn't become their puppet and let his abusers win by becoming them. I am broken from walking away the final time. I can really feel it's over now and I want that part of my life to be, I have to want to. I understand him and so I forgive him. Hurt people hurt people. A narcissist is just 1 of the most trauma riddled adult child kinda souls who also just needs to be seen and heard. I definitely tried to still keep him in my life while doing so but seriously would end up sacrificing my self finally if I had be with him again. So I do all the seeing and hearing from aAAAALLLLLL All the way over here far away from him, the further the more it grieves me but the better for it my survival mode becomes. I can only send him love , that courage needed to finally 1day wake TF up and taking accountibility for the pain he causes so he can grow and change from it instead of geting so triggered by the risk of even admitting to him self, let alone claiming it out loud to in order heal and become stronger. He refuses to realise that to have true power, is to master 1 self and not others. That's what coward pussies do. I just pay he wakes up and heals. He deserves a chance to be a genuine, healthy good man. And not just play pretend anymore. Don't they get drained from all the superficial pretence eventually? I couldn't do it anymore.... Kept telling me I make up stories in my head, makes sense now. Maybe that's the line he was mostly fed as a child too... I wish he wasn't this way, I so desperately didn't want to believe it. Not about my person😢

[@sagebay2803]

My Mom is a cruel Narcissist. You mention this trait is a result of a cruel upbringing.....but, I had the same upbringing and I am an empath. I CHOSE not to be like my Mother. So, why didn't I become a Narc? Not judging, just curious. My siblings are like my Mom and I realize no matter how much loving-kindness I display, they still chose to be self-centered. I have no idea WHY they are like this. Thank you for listening. Appreciate your videos.

[@healnpd]

@sagebay2803 - Cruelty isn’t the only factor. People who are treated cruelly by their parents often develop some kind of psychopathology, but it isn’t always the same kind. The specifics matter. Superficial similarities don’t add up to identical experience. No two people have the same upbringing, and therefore no two people have the same choices to make.

[@sagebay2803]

Thank you for your response. I appreciate it very much.@@healnpd

[@InvisibleBorderline]

I’m going to assume that the psychological attacks could also be directed at a life partner who is being patient, accepting and understanding? It makes me very sad that these processes are more than likely what caused the behavior of my ex boyfriend which resulted in me leaving him. I always knew he carried a lot of personal pain. So do I. I used to say “like knows like” to him on those occasions when I think he was trying to be open and vulnerable. Unfortunately, I wasn’t prepared nor do I have the capacity to help him. I can barely help myself and when his defenses were triggered so that he was tearing me down because he loved me, I couldn’t take it. I had to leave to protect myself and yet I still feel guilty about it. In the end I abandoned him just like everyone else.

[@karencloutier3236]

My bro was spoiled. Handed everything. I consider him a malignant narcissist becuz if you correct him in the mildest of ways he got physically abusive. My whole family was narcissistic. It has def done a number on my life. Nnow I know what it is I’m going to march forward to a life of me.

[@miriambarco8832]

Thank you for your clear explanation

[@Prometheuspredator]

Is malignant narcissism associated to the Dark Triad?

[@jankucera8505]

surgically precise, thank you

[@heathersoper6923]

Your videos are so informative and I will listen to them again. I'm going through an extremely bad time, one of the 2 men I have put in court, 2 dental people, has denied any wrongdoing, the other has admitted 'failing me', only he didn't just fail me, he lied and this is only because an Expert has failed him. I am having to take the case myself. As a resukt of what has happened to me I have chronic stress and anxiety, I have psychogenic tremor, I also need an operation. The Lies from the first defendant are off the scale, everything he has said, in writing, is a lie.

[@swissrootful]

there is no treatment for the malignant narcissist, just get them out of your lives, and that alone will be very hard, no amount of good will/intentions/love will help. they are lost souls and will hurt anyone not going along with them.

[@Ssethtzeentach_enjoyer]

Society used to do something to them in Minecraft that I can't put into a KZbin comment.

[@johhnyAlameda]

A fascinating description. It would be helpful to expand our understanding of the mechanisms by which malignant narcissism facilitates a fascist political movement- a societal contagion. This is alluded to in the introduction

[@merissarussomilo8806]

Seen lots great movies on them… thank you I see the truth now on this one…cuz I dealt with it twelve yrs ago

[@merissarussomilo8806]

I have BPD thank you for this ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@brianf9615]

You just described my older sister to the T.

[@sweet2sourr]

Hey Doctor Mark! Nice intro

[@healnpd]

Thanks! 😊