Heated Debate w/ Genderqueer Feminist

[@BlaireWhiteX]

Thoughts? Winner?

[@gigi2423]

Blaire White you hands down

[@sweetheartsmisery]

Blaire White you Blaire.

[@trentgill992]

i say for the last 2 hours I was study forfrench and your debate help me study lol but you did win by far!!

[@makaylacaton6441]

Blaire White Blaire, you obviously won this very heated argument.

[@LKD70]

new here... oh did a decent job. a cure for transgenderism is giving them an additional choice too. it isn't something that is forced upon someone. good debate. keep it up

[@sabinewilson4385]

Natalie used to be so unconfident in herself, looking & talking down the whole time. Now look at her being an unbothered Queen.

[@Calico_Crow]

Natalie pointing this video out, and seeing so starkly the contrast between who she was and who she is now, it blew my mind. I was so afraid to watch this because it felt so wrong to see her in a vulnerable position, but GAH now it's like... she went from this to royalty. So fantastic. And to see that echoed here in the comments

[@UsernameInvalidTHIS]

I think she's only looking down here because of where the monitor is in relation to the camera.

[@Calico_Crow]

@@baxterbrown5738 I'm pretty sure in the "Aesthetic" video she did a few videos back

[@void48z8]

Natalie? you mean William?

[@Hayden_Cat]

Yep

[@CrochetCrochetJoyJoy]

It's been 3 years now since this video streamed. How about Blaire and Natalie talk again soon? And don't make it a "debate." No point scoring. No oneupmanship. No competition. Just converse. Just talk about views. Don't attempt to convince one another "I'm right - no, I'm right - no, I'm right." Just lay out your views and see why each person thinks the way they do. Not everything needs to be a "debate." Sometimes it can be just talk.

[@prettybones9039]

I agree! I’d love to see them talk again, since they’ve both grown so much.

[@Chaos-th8um]

That would be extremely boring.

[@JE-ng4ty]

Yes!

[@hybridelectric7174]

Sarah Kelly which one?

[@tomaslev2697]

You literally described a debate tho.... The purpose of debate isn't to convince the other person but to give the spectators two views of a problem

[@oliviabird6349]

poor june is too passive to interrupt she looks so stressed

[@lynnross2204]

Dom Trussardi You creeps love passive women don’t you?

[@noriii]

ajax515 but straight men like to get choked. haha.

[@FreyjaShartSquad]

@@lynnross2204 Christ this is a Blaire White video, let them have preferences. He's not even being creepy, he's just being sweet.

[@lk9697]

June is an idiot

[@didid.k.s.1268]

@Dom Trussardi So being passive is feminine? Ok

[@dannacolin4850]

in my opinion the trans people who try so hard to prove they're the same as biological men or women and erase their transexuality, are actually very transphobic...accepting there is a difference doesn't diminish you, it is simply a fact...props to blaire in this debate!

[@shinycharms]

REAL!!

[@Cbd_7ohm]

They're delusional and mentally ill as well.

[@eeeeks]

Beautifully said. What’s wrong with being a transexual? Own it bc it is a unique experience and I understand that it’s real but it’s different and most people would accept it if more trans people accepted it.

[@jocelynniquette6507]

i am a transvestite, i don't take hormone, but i pump my nipples and my breast, why? because i want to look like a woman and feel like one... and even if men's say i have i nice butt, i saw a device who can grow the butt if i found it back i will do it...but i know i was born with blue socks😂😂

[@jocelynniquette6507]

oh and i have my real hair, the line on my forhead is higher then real women but i live with!! (if i have the money i will change it)

[@leeleemerk7344]

2019 REMATCH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

[@lassielyra]

Omg Natalie the absolute QUEEN she is is gonna slay Blaire.

[@user-yz9kz6vt9y]

Contra has stated that she doesn't want to debate problematic figures anymore because of the backlash she has received in the past from the left.

[@Vearru]

Infinity-Z Oh no that’s not great because that’s the exact thing that gets people like me to end up believing what Blaire believed at the time of this debate. Yes Natalie makes amazing videos that did bring me to a more real central/left stance on gender but it would still be nice for her to convince other influencers of some amount of what she believes because that can just make this discourse better for everyone. Basically Truscum vs Tucute should have more willingness for fair discussion rather than pure hate.

[@user-yz9kz6vt9y]

@@Vearru I agree; I think it's much more effective to hold debates and directly challenge problematic views.

[@rubenflores912]

Why? Blaire ate this one up and digested him out. She's right to just say, "Next!"

[@Lathburn]

I remember when this video first came out and Natilie was smaller and got completely slammed in the comments, but now everyone seems to be talking positively about her lmao.

[@BlueTyphoon2017]

Allinthefamily Stivic who exactly?

[@BlueTyphoon2017]

GuiltyUntillProvenSober but wouldn’t that statement that allinthefamily said also apply to Blair?

[@BlueTyphoon2017]

GuiltyUntillProvenSober well what’s your problem with transgender people? Why do you care they do with their lives?🤨

[@seanthekillah3098]

Natalie is amazing. This other person is ok or something.

[@miamazingness]

It's because she actually is way different now than she was when they filmed this video, so it's not much of an irony. Contra was contradicting herself (or at the very least wasn't communicating clearly) and lost this debate.

[@dawnarnett]

Yeah I'd love to see Blaire and Natalie talk now. I think they could find common ground on a lot now. They both are very educated and are more mature now.

[@zekezzekekan2144]

I think you're right. I think we're finally starting to have a discussion with each other. Into the guy being a dick. What are you even doing here? Are you interested in the conversation do you think the chicks are hot.

[@brijmsn]

How do you mean? What is so different now other than Contrapoints voice pitch?

[@jeanmichellelaurent]

Brian Mason she transitioned

[@jusdorange4720]

i dont think blair is regarding her arguments and comments

[@tatsuya5888]

@Luc you can say all you want but saying that Natalie is uneducated... I don't think you know what you're talking about

[@sci8911]

Blair is so much better at debating now and Contra's comments about puberty blockers being harmless did not age well

[@growingoaks]

I saw the Yaniv one and I can say that you're right. She still does a good job articulating her points though.

[@AB-zq4fw]

Blair was pretty good here, but she's better now because she gave herself the opportunity to grow as a speaker by engaging in public debate despite being brand new to it.

[@escromeo]

wdym did not age well? I haven't heard about any recent discoveries of puberty blockers being harmful, so please elaborate. I'm very curious.

[@Mandy-nt2cs]

​@Antoni Elnes There are long known and recent studies detailing the dangers of puberty blockers. It's always been known that they are dangerous.. people who advocate for them these days act as if kids use them all the time so therefore they must be safe as rain. Simply isn't true. They are only used in rare cases of early onset puberty.. and must be used in a very certain, short window of time before they will cause even more damage/ side effects. If you want the information, it's there to be had.. the problem though is these days people tend to ignore it or convince themselves it isn't true or as bad as it sounds just bc they wish it weren't. Surely don't heat advocates of hormone therapy accepting the side effects of early onset dementia, diabetes & horrific autoimmune diseases. Suppose it's kinda like a smoker ignoring the fact that smoking causes cancer.. bc they don't want to have to stop smoking. The ignorance is bliss routine will soon lead to an explosion of sick & dead young LGBTQ/ trans people. If truly you truly want the info on puberty blockers in a manner in which you don't have to read studies or info yourself, I suggest watching some of Isaac Uncooked videos.

[@escromeo]

@@Mandy-nt2cs alright, thanks

[@ryancarson8461]

You could just tell Shoe wanted to say something but she didn't want to interrupt the debate

[@nora-zs7uq]

Oliver Von arx No, she was there to moderate the debate, not take part of it.

[@nora-zs7uq]

Oliver Von arx Yes, but not take part in the debate and say their opinions.

[@dang9669]

she was more of the referee,,, "Blaire, let him finish"...

[@T.D.Swartz]

ryan carson Watching this way late but she keeps accidentally beginning to nod and then hiding it XD

[@howdypardner6278]

True!! But that's her job!!

[@FutchCassidy]

Look, _I absolutely adore June_ , but she is one of the most passive people I know of, and you put her in the role of an active moderator. Found that quite humorous.

[@janeyjpg911]

Yass

[@spookyho5994]

Nastassia I didn’t know about that (if it’s true), where did you get that from? Like, I genuinely wanna know if that’s ok

[@kryzia-just]

@@spookyho5994 pretty sure she admitted it herself in a video. can't remember which tho.

[@muddywitch9016]

Jeff Holiday would have been a better moderator, he would be polite and firm at the same time.

[@dt05]

Condensed Inspiration eh, she wasn’t needed. The two went back and forth ok. It wasn’t like the onision debate

[@Liquidfighter]

It's hilarious to see how uncomfortable Shoe is with being strict with people. She'd be the most awkward dominatrix.

[@dead_fox]

Nick Vayne nice one

[@ALSPEHEIR]

-NOW I WILL HURT YOOOOOU...i-if thats o-okay to you...

[@dionesdisciple3329]

Nick Vayne 😂😂😂

[@tallset85]

As an actor I would LOVE her to direct me😂😂

[@bagelsaredonutswithoutambi7113]

I feel for June, man. I'm super awkward

[@emmabbyreborns341]

Fast forward six years and almost every MtFtM detransitioner describes their vagina as an open wound, so Blair was absolutely right even back then.

[@molleybrackney9585]

And it’s funny because they genuinely see no difference between a neovagina and an actual vagina like sis my vagina cleans itself has the possibility to push out a child and doesn’t stop after 6 inches … it’s so weird how these people genuinely believe they are actually women or actually men like no you’re trans and that’s okay

[@trl2151]

Well, once you no longer want your vagina what is left? An open wound. There are women who don't like their vaginas and see it kind of similarly. I'm not saying neo vaginas are good generally or where they could be, just saying its a matter of spective. Obviously someone who feels regretful about the surgery and detransition will see it that way because thats what it is if they're not going to use it as a vagina.

[@beanboat.]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@trl2151... what ? no actual woman would ever describe their vagina as an "open wound" even if they didn't like it. besides, the neovagina isn't "like an open wound", it IS an open wound !

[@megamax898]

Not to come off as transphobic but it kind of is an open wound. People think surgeons can preform miracles or something. And I’m sure the complication rates are high. It reminds me of how they try to say circumcision is totally safe for babies when they can die, or lose their parts. But no matter one the surgeons want you to think the pros outweigh the cons.

[@KendallLewis-jf7hm]

@@trl2151as a woman who doesn’t particularly like the way my vagina looks, and have many friends who feel the same, it’s still not an open wound. It cleans itself, lubricates itself, regulates its own PH, and has birthed 2 children. It doesn’t close if I don’t “dilate” it, it doesn’t cause me pain that require surgical revision to reverse, it’s entirely made up of genital tissue, and it has A CERVIX. All things that a neovagina could never be/do.

[@ayaonora]

shoe just listening occasionally making a face like she wants to say something but ultimately staying quiet. lol. me.

[@arabellas70s]

honestly would be interesting if you two had a debate again

[@LiveFromThePorcelainPalace]

a cat fight between them would be kinda hot 😃

[@LiveFromThePorcelainPalace]

My money is on Blaire

[@mikehall4730]

Shoe is just sitting there like "oh my what did I sign up for..."

[@sarahtonin4649]

I think part of the problem here is that no one who didn't already know would ever assume that Blair was genetically male. She's not even at all androgynous in her appearance or her voice -- she simply seems to be a very feminine, and attractive woman. So for her to unashamedly state that she does not consider herself to be a woman, is naturally going to upset people who insist that "trans women are women," especially trans women who do not pass unquestionably as women, which probably includes the vast majority of them. I do not have a problem with this. I am a trans woman of many decades, who for most of my life had more trouble passing for male than for female, especially after starting estrogens at age 21, and having some minor facial surgery. In spite of having lived easily as a woman, like Blair, I do not consider myself to be a woman. Women and men are very different in so many ways, and I like that fact. I would never have made a point of saying to people, "Hey, I'm not really a woman," or purposely outing myself, until we started this whole hyper-woke, hysterical insistence that "Trans Women Are Women!" and the idea that people should be required to go along with that, whether they agree or not. One of the very first things people do as they encounter unfamiliar human beings in life is to quickly determine if they're looking at a male or a female. If they can't immediately tell for sure, reactions vary from person to person, ranging from fascination in some, to anxiety, or even anger in others. I'm at the "fascination" side, but then I also get intensely curious, and want to figure it out. So one problem with the whole "trans women are women" slogan, aside from the tiny fact that we aren't, is that it's gotten ridiculous enough that we're expected to believe that all it takes to be a woman is to say that you are, and if we disagree, we're "transphobes" or "bigots." I personally think that if people whom you encounter identify you in those initial seconds as a male, in spite of any female attire, they are under no obligation to treat you as female. If all the physical cues, including voice and mannerisms, say "male," I don't think anyone should be obliged to call you ma'am, or refer to you as "her" or "she," if it doesn't feel honest. On the rare occasions that I've been called, "sir," I didn't like it, but I didn't blame the person -- I figured it was on me. Now, at the extremes, we have men making little or no effort to pass for women yet insisting that they *are* women, expecting to use women's facilities, join women's groups, compete in women's sports and beauty pageants, etc. I don't think people should have to humor anyone's delusion, obsession, or fetish, as the case may be. Sorry, but if you seem to be a man, people are not rationally or ethically bound to treat you otherwise. I would not demand that for myself, and do not feel obligated to do it for anyone else.

[@norocosul33]

you seak the truth. if all trans people will think like you, we will not have any problems accepting them.

[@morrisnakes]

I believe (genuine) trans women are women, but I do not believe trans women and cis women are exactly the same. Whether I read someone as a woman has little to nothing to do with their appearance after a little bit of interaction. It does have to do with their mannerisms, the way they process thoughts, the way they converse, and I think I'm pretty good at this determination, because I can look at someone presenting as male, who is not claiming to transgender, and predict with almost 100% accuracy "this person is transgender and is going to transition in a few years when they get to know themselves, they just don't know yet." Blaire does not appear to have that level of sensitivity, because she looks at someone like Riley Dennis, who is transgender and always was even if she didn't entirely present as female, and she sees a man. We cannot demand people have that level of sensitivity that they can just tell. We can encourage it, but only if we can recognize there are inherent differences in women and men, which is antithetical to a lot of the leftist talking points. Back when Riley was still presenting as male, I would have used female pronouns for her, but I do not think demanding that of others, especially strangers is appropriate, as much as it's what the person desires to hear. That being said, there are a lot of people identifying as transgender for attention, less so now than when this video was made, but it's still an issue. Radical acceptance of their claimed identity is not going to help these people, but it may help to build some level of respect and trust to where you can have a real conversation with them that sparks some introspection. I think it's a personal choice what amount of energy you want to give this people, what sort of investment you want to make into building a relationship, and certainly not something that should be demanded of everyone.

[@sarahtonin4649]

@@morrisnakes - Thank you, interesting response. In a world where the whole subject of sex and gender has become confused and contentious, the popular phrase "trans women are women" is meaningless, because it immediately, sadly begs the question: what is a woman? If gender fanatics are going to work so hard to render the word "woman" meaningless, they shouldn't expect, "Trans women are women," to be taken seriously. I think the vast majority of humans are fine with the traditional, biological definition -- woman: adult human female. I don't think we need to redefine the word to humor people, especially people whose only effort into transition is announcing, "I'm a woman," when they are so clearly not. If trans women are women, why do we call them "trans women"? And why differentiate "cis women"? I've never referred to women, or men, as "cis-" and I won't. When I hear it used, it's normally as a perjorative from resentful, envious trans people or self-righteous activists. But the fight over definitions aside, the biggest issue I see is the ridiculous surge in the number of people claiming to be trans, which I believe is 99% fad, a huge, social media fueled social contagion, which wouldn't be a huge problem except that too many people who are too young to give informed consent are being lured down a medical path of no return. Lives are being ruined over a stupid "culture war" ideology. I'm not a "transphobe," I'm a stupidity-phobe, and a child-abuse-phobe. Most of Europe has put severe limits on medical transition of minors, or stopped it altogether. The US plows blindly forward, and probably will continue to do so, until the malpractice lawsuits start piling up, like we see in England now. The sooner the better.

[@morrisnakes]

@@sarahtonin4649 I agree that most often people who use cis are being derogatory, but I certainly don't mean it in that sense, but as a way to be more specific than "woman". The fact we can't seem to agree on what a woman is or isn't, further illustrates why narrowing it down is useful imho. In many situations, it's not important to distinguish between trans women and cis women, but in some it is. 100% with you on the pandemic of people transitioning when they shouldn't. I would go so far as to say transitioning isn't even always the best choice for people wit genuine gender dysphoria because sometimes transitioning can have secondary effects that are very detrimental depending on their life circumstances. People should have a good support network before transitioning, and as lax as the US doctors have become, I will commend them for at least trying to get people interested in transition to solidify that network before medical transition. Unfortunately, that network often contains hugbox-mentality people that do not really provide some of the critical components, such as discussing what can go wrong.

[@sarahtonin4649]

@@morrisnakes - I agree completely that hormones and surgery are not necessarily the best or only way to deal with true gender dysphoria, so it should not even be considered for minors, especially since being "trans" has become a club for disaffected teens.

[@charziebear333]

damn this is the first time ive seen blaire actually very annoyed in a debate

[@charziebear333]

white is beautiful that's very true

[@anthonyclark5849]

she got really heated in the discussion about onision I remember lol. not a debate but that's the angriest i've seen her haha

[@mortal-enemy]

She also had an argument on twitter with a SJW transwoman youtuber yesterday too, so she's probably fired up and let it all out here. Sometimes being right all the time can be frustrating.

[@ohstassie3014]

At which part

[@SomeSomeCruzz00]

I'd be pretty annoyed if someone defended someone else saying I'm enacting genocide right after chewing me out on not using proper pronouns.

[@edef1244]

Why am I only finding out this exists TWO YEARS LATER

[@jojo1234a]

Beary nope, me also lol

[@Pushnotificationsalwaysoffbye]

And me, two years and three days later. Imagine that sense of failure.

[@dingdongshush]

Same

[@mywifestiles5059]

🙏

[@babygurleatsshickennuggits4201]

Same here! I want them to do another live stream together

[@vg7735]

Being gay is different. Gay people don't take hormones or get extreme surgery to change their orientation. Lots of transgender people want to take hormones and have extreme surgery. So it isn't about societal acceptance. If transgender people were fully accepted, they would still want to make extreme changes to their bodies.

[@emerydo5937]

The accuracy

[@soniasmith3594]

A man in a wig is criticising an actual transgender woman just blows my mind

[@YasminYoruba]

It always seems the case. I feel bad she needs to deal with these types of people who ruin it for people like Blaire

[@elainehiggins713]

What is an actual transgender person? The guy in the wig insists that trans women are women.

[@nicolenonya5874]

Transarchy = the ultimate thought police.

[@vampesque]

It's because everyone in a female wig like him are saying there trans women and there not there transvestites

[@maximusralte777]

These men in wigs have no idea what transgender means at all. 😂

[@dn7096_]

The fact that Blair can talk about these subjects objectively, I think, indicates that she’s at peace with her gender rather than “disgusted” by it.

[@dn7096_]

@@mayas4m it’s funny because I see it as the other person is doing that. I guess I’d say because blaire doesn’t shy away from addressing the biology.

[@dn7096_]

@@mayas4m yes but ignoring biology and chromosomes is ignoring 95% of peoples experience with gender and sex. There are many many gender identities but they all fall somewhere on the binary gender spectrum. If there was a third gender it would have to be something like an asexual reproducer.

[@dn7096_]

@@mayas4m ^ that didn’t really make sense but what Im saying is that 95% ppl identify their gender with their sex. So to say that biology has nothing to do with gender erases 95% of the population, to use SJW terminology… I have never sensed self hatred in Blaire. She knows she’s genuinely trans so she’s not afraid to address the biology. Which was my original point.

[@VenstaMusic]

​@@mayas4m Checking chromosomes? I hope you realize that every person is born with either XX chromosomes or XY chromosomes and that this genetic difference is easily recognized at birth by the primary sexual reproductive organs, it is as simple as that. Biological sex is decided by genetics, nothing else. If you are not willing to accept that reality, you genuinely are misguided. Gender however, is more complicated territory, as it is a social construct confirmed by interpersonal communication with our surroundings. Whether it's family, friends, teachers at school, news anchors on tv; They all play part in defining the role we play, based on our sex. Gender are also the assumptions we base on biological sex, the way we socialize our children based on that and the way we behave unto people of a certain assumed biological sex. "Your chromosomes don't count for 95% of social interactions", I tend to disagree with you there because of what I stated above. If you mean that either XY or XX does not define 95% of how you behave socially; I agree though. Because it is actually the way we are socialized, educated and brought up based on our biological sex (defined by those chromosomes) that shape the better part of how our social interaction takes shape.

[@antmz]

@@mayas4m what you are saying makes no sense. It seems like you dont believe in objective reality

[@lyssakate]

Rewatching this now, I feel so bad for Contra. She was in a confusing time in her transition, struggling with dysphoria, and when Blaire made all those comments about tall trans women over 6 foot never passing I physically hurt for Natalie. (She's over 6 foot, 6'3 I believe?) Before anyone jumps down my throat, I am not saying Blaire did anything wrong and I'm not taking sides. I am just saying looking back on this, I feel a lot more empathy for Contra (Natalie) than I did back in the day when I first watched this. I think they're both in a better place now, and I would truly love to see a new debate/discussion between them.

[@dylancope]

I think Natalie is 6/6.1ft, but yeah I was feeling the same way :( Luckily, I think that Natalie is smart enough to understand that it's okay that she isn't short.

[@Virgomeowmeow111]

@sobantuy still happens tho. if you get to a passable look, ppl just assume ur a mad tall girl lmao.

[@EmiLia-us4cz]

tfw you're a 6'3 biological woman ಡ﹏ಡ. I actually used to totally hate being so tall, I felt I wasn't feminine enough and even though I have a vagina it wasn't enough to be considered feminine. I do feel bad for tall trans women, in this aspect. I just think if I thought I wasn't feminine enough as a tall cis woman, they would feel even worse about it. (I love being tall now, fyi)

[@Virgomeowmeow111]

@@EmiLia-us4cz I'm 5'9 i deal with height dysphoria all the time. I just feel kinda gross compared to these 5'4 trans girls lmao. But tall women are iconic, I'm glad you've learned to love it, and hopefully I will too :)

[@Virgomeowmeow111]

@Lane Taylor true tea

[@50blessings13]

A scene girl a republican trans woman and a weeb walk into a bar Edit:dang thanks ive wanted to reword this joke so many times but hey yall seem to like it the way it is lol

[@50blessings13]

@@Curvy.fish11 ...reallly???loo

[@nickv.3573]

@Wade Wilson sorry, you're under arrest.

[@ghoulsanddarts9601]

lmao 😂

[@50blessings13]

@Wade Wilson why is there an avengers spin off happening in the comments lol

[@powerforth8400]

How to ruin a comment with a corny edit.

[@Mandy-nt2cs]

I can tell ya'll the whole issue with all of this insanity. Somehow we zipped right past 'embrace yourself as you are' and 'you can be anything you want to be' right into 'change words, definitions & reality into anything you want to make yourself feel better', to make that hurt feel better, to make anything that offends you less offensive.

[@danielleschiazza6172]

Right! And anyone who does not agree is a phobe or bigot. Not just a person with common sense and logic.

[@thecommentsection4913]

If that's the case, people shouldn't color their hair, get braces or get plastic surgeries. Lots of people change characteristics about themselves they don't feel comfortable with. Are we applying "just accept yourself" to everyone and everything or just specific changes we don't agree with?

[@emilythompson7594]

Wow you hit the nail on the head with this comment. 👏 👏 👏

[@michellesnightmare]

Yes! Absolutely! I just got out of an argument where someone turned a halfway decent comment into stupidity by inserting the word "pressed" to mean "upset". Ugh, I just want to grab the world by the shoulders and scream "wtf is wrong with you?"

[@IchigoShinagami]

"Change words, definitions & reality into anything you want to make yourself feel better" You are making me sound cooler and I like it.

[@scarletbrigham1498]

contra has come so far since this debate :')

[@dylankennedy4539]

Blaire wouldn’t try it now

[@heysilly1341]

Scarlet Brigham I’m so happy to she her grow so much

[@chocoflavoredcookies5649]

i just came here to see what she looked like before.

[@jasonkelley9072]

Contra lost at 8:34 when she asked “what’s it mean biological sex” lol

[@PrinceofQueens]

Contrapoints hasn't gone anywhere besides a higher budget, but if Contra debated anybody, it would sound about the same.... Contra is not smart; when somebody more intelligent is speaking to Contra, you'll always see it (which is why Contra won't do debates).

[@dasc0yne]

Blaire. I'm a physician and you are 100% correct that "deformity" is not a value judgement but is clinically accurate to describe a physiologic aberration. Nick's position, at best, is for a person in transition to afford the same social consideration as someone with Swyer Syndrome. There is an ounce validity there but that's not an argument for gender to be fluidly defined socially. Contrary to what Nick thinks, a person with Swyer Syndrome does not possess physiologically functional female genitalia. A Swyer patient has non-functional "streak" ovaries and won't even develop female hips or breasts without medical intervention. Folks like Nick shouldn't extrapolate a value judgement from your appropriate use of clinical terminology. It's not offensive and a vital distinction.

[@Yasmin-ci3hd]

Would you as a physician say there are more then 2 genders?

[@dasc0yne]

Nope. I deal in physiology. There are only two viable genders. As Blaire correctly describes, the more extreme intersex conditions, that some folks like to use to argue a physiologic basis for multiple genders, are not viable alternative genders. There's genotype and there's phenotype. When there is a discrepancy between the two or if there's anything but XY or XX then it's a pathologic state. It's not a new gender. I can understand Nick's sensitivity about associations with pathology because of the parallels with the way homosexuality was once described and treated. In the process he's willing to willfully ignore science and biology for this reason. Transgenderism or gender dysphoria is not the same thing as homosexuality. Not by a long shot. Blaire can appreciate that more than most folks, including and especially with Nick.

[@thevis5465]

+Team WaveHD they live in their own little reality bubble.

[@maocharlisme]

R Sid; as a cis gay man I would be perfectly fine if science were to find lots of clues that leads to the belief that by gayness is caused by some sort of default per example in the brain. I only start having a problem when I get pushed or forced to undergo some sort of treatment for this default or am pushed or forced to lead an ingenuine life because of it. Even if gayness were some sort of default it would for most of us be a perfectly liveable and often even enjoyable one. I can see that me not being intrinsically motivated to make a child by sexual means might be a default but it isn't a problematic one, neither for me nor for the world because it isn't like we have a lack of humans or a lack of means to create them nowadays or anything. Having to ungay for me however sounds like a hugely problematic and traumatic experience. When I hear Blaire talking about a cure I totally hear her making a case for it being great that that would hypothetically be a wonderful option to offer people who are heavily suffering under their gender dysphoria if they don't have the means to undergo a sexchange or find it to intruding or rather not be in a position to be forced to cosmically totally alter their intire body in order to feel happy with it and have it really ligned up with how the general public interpretates them regarding to the sex they mentally associate with. Not in any way do I interpretate those words as her implying she would want to force this cure on transgenders/ people with gender dysphoria. Knowing that people constantly interpret you as something else than you associate yourself with does sound really hard and as a probable cause for alot of suffering but having people on a massive scale pretending that they see you as this or that when in fact they don't isn't the answer. If in my eyes all greens are actually red I can try to start calling all greens that people are telling me are red red but then I'm not actually being honest to anyone, including myself. Differences in perception are just as real as differences in identity. I don't want to hurt people but I equally don't want to lie about my perceptions either. Blaire White happens to be one of the few transsexuals that I've ever experienced honestly perceiving as 99% the opposite sex of what she was born as. However that doesn't mean that I, because there might be many transsexuals that I - for the greater part - perceive as the sex they were born as, don't value the selfidentity of those transsexuals equally. I just don't want to create an illusion of kindness by faking that I view them likewise to how they hope I view them and may have worked hard for to accomplish.

[@Phoenix1981M]

@@dasc0yne hi Dasc. would you also say, there are clear skeletal differences, anatomical differences, and metabolical differences, and differences with the brain with biological men and woman that these differences cant be ignored!

[@oliverxhmll]

I never really cared about issues like this until I met someone with actual gender dysphoria(it's ruining their life). It's a very serious condition so saying you're trans without dysphoria AND demanding female pronouns is almost insulting to the people who suffer every day. It's the same thing when it was fashionable to say you were depressed, but you weren't ... making actually depressed people after tragic life events feel like they're not good enough/ trying hard enough.

[@mlynn9361]

i was just about to make the depression comparison in reply to you, lol ... so many people use the word depressed as an adjective, like when they have the blues or something, or the occasional slump everyone gets in, which makes it harder for people to understand when you're talking about real, clincical, chronic depression and how you cant just snap out of it or choose to be happier

[@prageruwu69]

ok transphobe

[@fernforwood3989]

prageruwu Wow. What a come back. You really got ‘em.

[@NurseSnow2U]

prageruwu how is it transphobic to be realistic?

[@otaku-chan4888]

you're privileged to not know that dysphoria isn't the _only_ way to suffer in the wrong body

[@billysobolik]

That moderator was stressed af and you can tell she was in way over her head. She was far too soft-spoken, nice, and indirect to handle moderating such a heated debate. Blaire has improved significantly as a debater since this video, but in this, I'd say she definitely should have held a lot of her thoughts and emotions until the end of Contra's responses, instead of cutting them off 3 seconds in, and she should have been held accountable by a better moderator for doing so. Though, I did agree with almost everything Blaire said. She just frustrated me with how much she was interrupting in this video, while acting as though her oposer was doing that exact thing. But again, this video is kind of old, so...

[@ariananovell]

i agree but at the same time contra was constantly bringing up the same issues they had about something blaire said after blaire had already explained herself.

[@danamania150]

Contra is barely recognizable here - both physically and ideologically.

[@boringname3657]

Ideologically?

[@87channels]

@@boringname3657 Natalie is a lot less radical now

[@user-bk8qv4lv6o]

how has she changed since then? i’m really hoping she has

[@gardevoirdude7493]

@@87channels How so? She has made videos about many of the topics she discusses in this debate... When she's made non left points she's been cancelled...

[@87channels]

@@gardevoirdude7493 I was referring to the things she says in her private AMA streams and not the public videos.

[@TechnoEsoterica]

Contra's points were basically just, "stop being so mean" opposed to actually having points.

[@GreyKnight7777]

Not really. Contra kept pointing out cognitive dissonance in Blaire's position, and offering moral challenges to her presumed position as trans-arbiter, which Blaire was on the whole unable to answer. Her responses amounted to a false appeal to authority, "uhmm...of course I'm not transphobic...I've had hormone therapy" nonsense. But, of course, you'd actually have to be paying attention to what was said to notice...

[@GreyKnight7777]

impulselol You're clearly mistaken. He argued his points from a position of rational objectivity and moral consistency. It's actually Blaire that is speaking about her own personal opinions as being valid, even when they contradict her other feelings on how she should be treated. Just look at the Riley Dennis segment as an example, where Blaire's argument is literally "I will use my personal feelings, rather than a consistent and objective standard, to determine the correct course of action, here." Anyone is free to watch the video and see for themselves, but on that note... You really didn't watch it, did you? It's okay to admit it.

[@GreyKnight7777]

impulselol I not only refuted your argument, but offered an example from this debate which demonstrates that my position is correct. I think it's strange that you would have "I speak truth" as your description when you clearly have no interest in demonstrating it. You're simply, objectively, demonstrably wrong, and until and unless you can come with some evidence to defend your position, you must be discounted as a troll. Sorry!

[@benjaminsmith1638]

Blaire was incredibly merciful and should be far more ruthless and blunt in the future.

[@frostbluez]

Contrapoints just expressed interest in talking with Blaire again, Blaire always says “Contrapoints isn’t interested” when it’s brought up during live streams. I hope Blaire will consider it since Contra has been making jabs at her for over a year now and clearly isn’t disinterested

[@tshred666]

strontiumXnitrate Natalie isn’t toxic. She’s said before that despite her disagreements with blaire they actually have a lot of mutual respect for each other. When she makes jabs at people like blaire and kalvin it’s for comedic effect and out of a sense of genuine concern for their sense of self worth and how they present the LGBT+ community. I mean it’s pretty clear to see that the various truscum vloggers like miss london, blaire, kalvin and Ryan all have serious doubt in their own identities and actively pander to a largely transphobic audience. Which is very concerning.

[@Sluggii]

@@tshred666 Yeah... no. Keep that shit to Tumblr and Twitter sweetie. A lot of Blair's audience is LGBT+, including myself. It's y'all that think disagreeing means the other person is the devil so I really don't get what your point is here. "She respects her, she just thinks she's a pandering threat." That's not respect honey, that's being passive aggressive about it. Your little bubble of a community where people who don't agree are shoved out has really fogged up your vision, huh?

[@tshred666]

Buttons you can be concerned about the well-being of other people while disapproving of their behavior. Because if we’re being honest about Blaire specifically her behavior is indicative of a certain level of self hatred. I mean why else does she work so hard to tear down other trans people rather than building them up? Why produce content that panders to terfs and publicizes stories from terf news sources? Why tear down non binary people? Gatekeeping the LGBT+ community the way they do only created personal division.

[@frostbluez]

tshred666 Blair’s only goes after problematic trans people now, like Jessica Yaniv. Also she’s not a terf, she’s not a feminist and for awhile made anti feminist content. And she goes after non-binary people because she believes their presence is harmful to the LGBT community, and I agree with her on that

[@tshred666]

Andrew Greydays lol I had a recent revelation about all of this by cutting out a toxic tucute from my personal life yesterday. Holy fuck but god is Blaire fucking right about all of these god damn SJW’s and confused cis kids who think they’re trans. Yo dealing a misogynistic fuck stick who thinks he has dysphoria because he fetishistically inserts himself as the women in extremely suspect and problematic porn was a fucking incredible eye opener. This dude would justify his “womanhood” by saying he had dysphoria because he always felt ugly (lol everyone does at some point) and that he always ‘felt like a woman’ because he had a massive kick for self inserting as older women in fucking god damn shotacon and had a massive kick for other gay guys fucking him in the ass while he cross dressed. Yo was I straight was harboring my own little fucking Johnathan Yaniv in my local lgbt community. That’s not dysphoria. That isn’t being trans. Dysphoria is as a toddler and small child being constantly bombarded with recurring hyper realistic dreams about living as the opposite sex being unable to process why these dreams make you feel good and at peace and why waking up from these dreams feel a little bit like dying on a daily basis and being completely incapable of expressing these feelings to the people in your life because you just know they won’t listen or take you seriously. Dysphoria is looking down at your genitals at 8 fucking years old and just being absolutely terrified and disgusted and not being able to understand why you feel that way. Dysphoria is as a teenager being super uncomfortable with your deep voice and Adam’s apple. You think your voice is gross and awkward and your Adam’s apple is disgusting and unsightly. You think about how your incoming facial and body hair make you look like a man, and that thought fills you with a feeling of emptiness and despair, because the thought of becoming a man just intrinsically feels wrong. Dysphoria isn’t “oh well I’ve really felt like ‘one of the boys’ so I must be one of the girls” or whatever tucutes this “social dysphoria” is. And I think I see her point about non binary identities being a crock of shit that only hurt transgender people. So many people defend modern non binary identities by comparing them to third gender groups from cultures where these people served a certain cultural or religious significance. Like the two spirit people of certain Native American tribes served a certain ritualistic role within their communities. Or how the hirja of India are also compared to non binary people here in the west when in reality these people are literally just a cluster group of trans, intersex, and eunuchs. So much stupid dogma being pushed about trans and “non binary” acceptance and holy fuck is Natalie a part of all of it. And dude what was it with her recent admission that her attraction to men was just meta attraction? Dude are we gonna get a “I’m detransitioning” video from her in the next couple years?

[@taraosborne4559]

Always feelings vs facts. I do empathize with feelings…. but not enough to ignore facts.

[@sleepforever9793]

Dont get me wrong, I LOVE shoe (June) but she is the most passive person to ever pick as a moderator 😂

[@notmee2388]

Watch the debate between Blair and Candace Owens, moderated by Dave Ruben if you want to see worse. Twas Like a Lion and a Tiger going at it with a mouse trying to referee.

[@tws3184392233]

@@notmee2388 lol

[@sleepforever9793]

@@FirstLast-po9tn bruh what? How is that relevant

[@dannygjk]

@@notmee2388 LOL

[@Mmm_Kay]

@@FirstLast-po9tn lmfao your comment is somehow more wrong now than it was 3 months ago☠☠

[@matthewhavens6653]

I’ve listened to some of Blairs debate and she interviews a number of people who just go off their emotions . She’s blunt and direct and it’s well thought out. This person she’s interviews gave me somewhat of a headache. Gets sensitive over words and she has to keep re explaining things or put it in terms that they might accept

[@guyplay]

100%

[@DarlingDaintyfoot]

Yes! How many times do they say, that may be true but why do you have to say it? Because it's the truth! It amazes me when people get angry that someone makes factual distinctions between two similar but different things. It would be like arguing that a prosthetic leg is exactly the same as a healthy human leg... & getting mad if anyone distinguishes between the two. Ridiculous.

[@tesssshtshow8905]

Love ❤️ your comment cause it’s so true

[@RonniePTexan]

The whole thing could be boiled down to the part where calling her a nazi, saying she's promoting genocide etc is ok but she makes a remark about someone's teeth and then suddenly they get butthurt.

[@scorpionformula]

He doesn't know english language .. And has created definitions for his vocabulary and erases anything that he deems offensive.

[@christophertatman404]

I have autism and I do want acceptance but I do wish there was a cure for autism I don't wish this on anybody

[@christophertatman404]

so true I'm one to embrace it but most aspies want to be "Normal"

[@AB-bt9eb]

Oh things get better. Everyone finds their place in life. You will too! I know it sounds cliche, but it's true.

[@iracertain]

christopher tatman that probably wasn't easy to say, and for what it's worth you have my respect for that. I am not autistic but raising an autistic child that I love, and I wish it too having seen the toll it takes on her. Would we think of it as genocide to want to cure terminal diseased people of their affliction? Just because of some idea that the development facing their mortality constitutes a separate being. How does this line of sjw thinking differ from fundamentalists who disavow medicine at this point?

[@davevd9944]

Why do people think if you have autisme you are borderline retarded ? i have it and compared to most people....i'm the normal sane person.

[@iracertain]

Dave Vd honestly? Most people don't know everything about everything and they try to navigate through life with a combination of Intuition, brute force and amiable ignorance. What's significant is that folk make the effort, it's usually still irksome and kinda embarrassing for all concerned but that they try means that there's hope.

[@Peacefulpreface6323]

"In what way is it not a functioning vagina if you can have intercourse?" - 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 the ignorance... the audacity to accuse Blaire of not being scientific and "disgusted" only to come out with one of the most derogatory and disgusting things you can say about a vagina 🤦‍♀

[@s13rr4buf3]

I reacted the same way. Ridiculous.

[@Userinterfaceexperience]

It's still through the lens of objectifying women and misogyny. I hope Blaire's guest has come further in these six years on their journey.

[@s13rr4buf3]

@@Userinterfaceexperience This is the kind of thing that makes me not want to say that trans women are "real" women. They speak and act just like you have known men to do. They don't live quiet, anonymous lives, putting themselves second, taking unpaid jobs like caring for disabled relatives for decades on end. They don't apologize when somebody else bumps into them. They don't lay awake at night wondering whether they're a good enough person, whether they've been kind and understanding enough. They don't stay home and/or gain weight in order to hide from a sexualized gaze. Those kinds of self-doubts and anxieties are what many women have. Being aggressive, being offensive, only having consideration for number one, seeking promiscuous, anonymous sex...have you ever seen those characteristics in white, well-off, bored young men?

[@DariaZainabTdad]

Its all about penetration. Sexual pleasure. So many are just Autogynephilic.

[@jiggydico7537]

@@UserinterfaceexperienceI don’t think this dude grew a brain in this time. His head is just there so it won’t rain in his neck.

[@alexandrabanner7901]

I just love that contra says that Blair should deal with being called a racist and a nazi. And he gets mad that she calls Riley Dennis a man or a garden gnome

[@empressfagiana8293]

Lxandra B I LOVE THE IMAGINE DRAGON BELIEVER

[@kathyflorcruz552]

Lxandra B JUSTINRILEY, you mean... 😉

[@XxMommotzxX]

I don't know dude. Would you engage in self-reflection of your own moral beliefs and values if someone accused you of being racist or fascist? I know that an immediate reaction to being called either of those 'isms' or whatever are pretty heavy, but I think just brushing them off as baseless, demeaning, and mocking insults to other people are incorrect classifications of those claims. In other words, being called a racist, fascist, misogynist, or other 'isms' are essentially critiques. While some may fling them around like poop in a monkey's hand, some are based on reason and reflection of someone's arguments. This is compared to the conclusion of someone looking like a garden gnome. This is not an argument. This is a fallacious claim in hope of leading people to a fallacious and, most likely, invalid conclusion. But ya know, whatever right? :/

[@Sims4T]

You shouldn't call someone a racist or any other "ism" unless they are showing that they believe they are superior to that certain sex, race, etc. And SJW's do fling those claims at people for not agreeing with them. I get called racial slurs by other black people who support BLM just because I personally don't support it. I get told by feminists that I am oppressed even though I have it easier than men just for having a vagina, they keep bitching about imaginary things and video games.

[@ravenzyblack]

seraphimme- No she isn’t an exception, many women have experienced the same thing she has. We just aren’t as vocal. I too have been called a White Supremacist, Racist, and a Nazi because I refuse to play identity politics and be a victim. I have had feminists tell me I’m not a “real woman” or that I suffer from internalized misogyny because I don’t don’t feel oppressed by the Patriarchy.

[@Aussie1968]

I watched this interview twice; and what I have learnt - here in Australia a lot of us just call a person "mate" (regardless of gender).... so from now on.... I am just calling every single person I don't know personally.... MATE!

[@pommiebears]

Aussie 1968 I’m not going to repeat what my husband calls his friends, as I’ve found a lot of Aussie men greet each other with....a strangely hostile term that is understood as mateship. Lol. People he doesn’t know...it’s always “ok mate”. I just say....hello. Lol. I’m English. It was a bit of a shock. I’m so used to it now though.

[@MienemLeben]

Aussie 1968 I’m American and I may just start calling everyone “mate”! So I don’t accidentally call someone a he and they are actually a she or vice versus.

[@Aussie1968]

@@MienemLeben Absolutely Jenni. Go for it! It will save you many a headache! I mean seriously, it is getting ridiculous, to the point where we are almost expected to be mind readers! Cheers mate! (See what I did there lol)

[@MienemLeben]

Aussie 1968 Yes I did MATE! 😉

[@Aussie1968]

@@MienemLeben 😁👍😊

[@ljb5163]

“Why are you being technical?” “Because we’re discussing technicalities...”

[@heheitsme1031]

do you have a timestamp for this lol

[@020ctmarie]

xxx xxx I wanna know too lol

[@akibalan2861]

'An impersonator, a clown, an act, .." . Are we talking about Dylan?

[@Loomismusic]

This is before Contra realized she was transexual, I feel like she could make a stronger case now that she knows who she is.

[@bravetherainbow]

Stronger case for what? I can't see what her personal life, or how she sees herself, has to do with the arguments she is making against Blaire. Unless she argued in this debate that people who identify as genderqueer, or have male pronouns, at some point in their lives can never change their perception of themselves later.

[@ExpressiveBeats]

yeah she might realize how hormones actually work. Does that mean they're no longer "genderqueer"? how do u go down that route for so long, as an adult, to then just be like "nah im a girl actually"?

[@bravetherainbow]

maybe watch some of her videos, I'm sure you could glean something

[@ExpressiveBeats]

@bravetherainbow Nah maybe u could glean something buddy I don't need to glean nutthin stop being egocentric.

[@samblackside]

WetToesAndSandscrapedKnees hey buddy that’s exactly how it is sometimes. Sometimes people aren’t so sure with themselves and then eventually go to what they were before or they transition. I’ve had several friends who were “genderqueer” and then transitioned into male (I don’t know any trans woman, only men) and so I think it’s smooth as it could be.

[@Greg69Heffley]

I don't get why Contra couldn't get that just because there's a cure for something doesn't mean you're being forced to take it

[@Greg69Heffley]

If you are a trans person who is completely fine and happy, just don't take the cure. It would be for people who are suffering

[@dawnbugXXX]

SteffanoTheGreat The issue is, you ask for a cure for gender dysphoria = you support things like conversion therapy in their eyes. They can't take Blaire's words for what they are.

[@tolucamexico73]

The moderator was very bad. Contra was devoted to discuss semantics and try to redefine terms, while Blaire debated with facts and stablished definitions. Contra was intellectually dishonest because he attributed positions and phrases to Blaire that she did not have, kept himself ambiguous and try to relativize (for the most part) the points Blaire did. The debate came across like: Blaire (reality) Vs. Contra (wishful thinking).

[@honeybbqwings2655]

LadyArwen exactly I thought Blaire was going to call her out there for a second with these semantics

[@auritone]

It seems Shoe was only there to make sure they didn't talk over each other. I love the fact that she let them talk because it made their positions very clear. And yes, Contra seemed more hung up on semantics than anything else. I don't think he did it consciously, I think he genuinely heard something different than what Blaire actually said.

[@babygirlhathaway55]

I'd get another moderator. You were talked over a majority of the time, but stopped if you did it. Not cool. Obviously the moderator had a favorite. Good job Blaire. This is a great example of "facts over feelings"

[@firgatolowe7651]

I would say that shoe did her best it more that blare respect shoe word when counter just ignore her and keep going but yeah bare definitely Showed the facts side well

[@axtravi]

She didn't have a favorite. She's friends with blair. I think she was just more comfortable telling blair since she's closer to her.

[@theowoosh3926]

@@axtravi true

[@BrudDeroche]

Wow interesting!! Gay male here. But yes I have to agree with Blair ... it is what it is! Good luck to you both

[@21389007163175]

Poor Shoe D: I love her, but she's too meek to be a good moderator.

[@ollyp3483]

Dom Trussardi not really. I don't have that problem.

[@ollyp3483]

Dafuq is that. And why did you thumb up your own comment, lmfaoo fucking loser.

[@bernardkovalchik2063]

Leah Greene : Just shut your f....ing swearing loser. Be nice for a change.

[@Alchamei]

Kimi ni tsutau kana? I also have a feeling she doesn't have problems with non-binary genders anymore because of Contra... She is his friend and doesn't want to hurt him by saying non-binary is bullshit, since that is what he identifies as.

[@lairbear3611]

At the beginning I was disappointed that Blaire didn't use the hair analogy to see her opponents stance more clearly. premise *If you're biologically born with the chromosomal make up for brown hair then you can dye it any number of other colors you wish but that doesn't mean the fact of you being born a biologically brown haired person has changed even though you have outwardly choosen to color your hair something that feels more right to you.* same with eye color as well. If her opponents answered yes that does mean you're no longer a person with brown hair, you're absolutly now a blond haired person....well then he would be consistent with his opinion even of its just biologically wrong. If he said it doesn't mean you're now biologically a blond blond then there wouldn't wouldn't be wouldn't be any consistency in his beliefs.

[@slutscammer1318]

i wish you could tag her in this comment, maybe she never though of this analogy and could use it in a future debate.

[@kyoukotoshinou6420]

That analogy only works if you consider sex and gender the same thing. And even then, not really. For all intents and purposes, someone who has dyed their hair a different color has that hair color because they're TREATED like they have that hair color. The outward expression of self is more important to our social interactions than internal facts of biological self. Unless you're talking to your doctor or trying to fuck someone your biological sex has very little to do with your interactions with others. And it's just as rude and shitty when someone sneers at you and says "you're just a bottle blonde" as it is when they sneer at you and say "you're not a real woman."

[@jeijeirenee6330]

TRUTH

[@lairbear3611]

Not at all, kyouko. It's an either or question. Either you're biologically one hair color and regardless of what you do to change it your chromosomal make up for that color will remain the same, or changing ones hair color from the chromosomal genetic color will rewrite ones DNA. The rest of your point is in regards to something entirely different, a strawman that trues changing the anology to something it's not so no meet to address that add on strawman argument

[@kyoukotoshinou6420]

Yes, but what does that have to do with the price of rice in china? I suppose it's all very well and good to say "If your genes say you're blonde, you're blonde." Except your hair isn't blonde, it's red now, no one knows your hair was blonde, and it doesn't matter one whit what your hair color is to begin with, right? And what IS blonde? What about dirty blond? Strawberry blond? Bleach blond? Golden blond? Yellow blond? Blondeness, as a category, is a human construct. A myriad of different shades and lusters that we've lumped, crudely and hamfistedly, into a single category. What's the objective of trying to make the distinction between a biological blonde and a trans blonde, anyway? I suppose you can use the analogy to "gotcha" someone into admitting that perceived attributes are more important than "biological" ones, but even if they don't agree that changing your hair color makes your actual real forever biological hair color different you still don't win the argument, because very rarely are they arguing about sex, they're arguing about gender. And while gender is informed by biology, it isn't dictated by it, because it isn't a physical characteristic but rather a category of performances. Perhaps I just don't understand the point of the analogy at all. It's too easily taken apart to prove the very argument a gender deconstructionist would want to make. There's an argument to be made that gender is just like hair color. Get tired of the one you've got, pop some pills, change your clothes, bada-bing bada-boom you're rocking a new style. And someone's obsession with someone's "biological" hair color is just as weird and disturbingly voyeuristic. How does this analogy help you win your argument, or convince an outside viewer that you're right?

[@N0nc0mpusmentus]

I love how contra refused to directly answer any question.

[@fernojake]

N0nc0mpusmentus he'd make a good politician or great state department spokesman 😂

[@BlueberryPickles]

You know you've jumped right down the rabbit hole when you're watching 1.5-hour-long debates that happened 6 years ago. I really hope that in the intervening 6 years this guy has learned that a vagina isn't simply a hole.. The end of this was difficult to watch... Blaire is clearly stressed out and close to tears, but just keeps on going and manages to keep her cool (and look great doing it).

[@sharkisland5931]

A Vagina isn't just a hole sure but the insistence that after a vaginoplasty the genitals is in no way a vagina & "just a wound" is equally insane. Especially when this debate only exists in the transsexual space but not when talking about intersex women who have the same result from a vaginoplasty which indicates people don't actually care about this at all they just want to spread bias

[@brijmsn]

Wait, what part? Lol I got to see that

[@drpepper-is-a-woman206]

​​@@sharkisland5931intersex females who get some reconstructive surgeries are not the same as male who have completely normal functioning sexed bodies inverting their genitals. Hope that helps!

[@katrinam6795]

He has. Check him out today :D

[@karolacouturier1799]

I agree with Blaire about kids transitioning. 13 year olds are already unstable and trying to fit in and "find themselves," so why would you let them make such a big decision that will affect the rest of their lives?! Kids that age don't think rationally. Everything revolves around them at that age and their brain isn't fully developed.

[@pfannkuchesindgeil5348]

If you wouldn't let a teen to have a tattoo, you shouldn't let a child transition.

[@nunyabizz5463]

If a child doesn't go through puberty they'll never truly have the experience to know if transition is the right choice

[@llamamall3653]

Dysphoria can manifest before the onset of puberty

[@nunyabizz5463]

Llamamall and it can also subside during and after puberty. Some people also have minimal dysphoria and can live with it. I was one of these young kids who had sex dysphoria very young, and I would hurt myself trying to "fix" my genitalia. Should my parents have made the decision to use blockers and hormones? Fuck no. That's a decision for the individual to make once they're an adult, or 16 in extreme cases.

[@duckdictator6531]

while true, they don't know enough about life to go trans. For example, I used to want to transition, pre-puberty, but now, during puberty, I feel more confident that staying the same is just better for me.

[@philosophyisfreedom]

Gabby Peaches weak!

[@nunyabizz5463]

philosophy is freedom Yeah but just because people wish they started sooner doesn't mean we should let everyone transition on a whim. There's people who wished they started sooner, and there's people like me and Blaire who have to live with the sterility. It's a lose-lose but there's gonna be lot more suffering if we have people needlessly transitioning

[@leontate8805]

Saying someone is committing "transgender genocide" for wanting to cure people of gender dysphoria is arguing in "good faith" according to Contra. My sides left orbit when he said that.

[@blackdakhma]

Contra also wants to take legislation targeting language in good faith as well, which is simply intellectually short-sighted.

[@sadhappy8860]

Errr, He? It's clearly a women you racist! Lol, I know, dude's crazy and your not wrong.

[@SkaterChick1972]

Leon Tate yeah that was pretty ridiculous. I'd be super sad and offended if someone said that about me. I don't blame Blaire for being pissed off at that.

[@zoeyb8361]

This video showed me how smart you really are Blaire. Earned my sub for sure. I find myself as a trans girl constantly agreeing with your viewpoints and takes. It is OK to be trans and still be grounded in reality and realism and not have to follow some of the ridiculous ideas and attitudes that so many people seem to have. One thing I will say, is that coming from a person who also has passing privilege, I can see myself perhaps seeing things differently if I were stuck as a trans person who could never pass. I think passing in general keeps us grounded and allows us to shoot down any nonsense. I even live in a "horrible" state (Florida) and yet my day to day life is incredibly good simply because I'm a decent looking cis passing trans girl. I've literally never had a negative interaction due to being trans. If I were not passing, my life and experiences and attitude may be different. I can admit that. 99.9% of the nonsense seems to come from non-passing people. Just something to think about.

[@molleybrackney9585]

I would agree on the passing thing but Samantha lux another trans KZbinr … very beautiful in my opinion and passes well is Batshit crazy says trans women are real women just a different type and she’s constantly coming after Blaire and saying anyone who acknowledges reality transphobic

[@Cucababy5]

I think they should've picked a moderator that didn't like them both because that puts her in a difficult spot lol

[@knightofivalice960]

Yeah

[@NinaSelene]

the liking them is not the problem, fearing actual moderation was disrespectful was.

[@jimmydane34]

She's a bad moderator. She doeent know how to be one .. . But I dont wanna critique....i may be a nazi, a sexist, TERF. Homophobe or maybe im contributinng to genocide of trans babies

[@coradarling3215]

That makes moderator non-biased tho

[@pmmcrn]

Jackie Jackson

[@TonecrafteLuthiery]

Moderator could have not been there and the debate would have unfolded in exactly the same way.

[@elysiumsalem7773]

Hey dont get mad at june she was an innocent bystander.

[@donttreadonchuck8006]

I'm so sick of this word police shit.

[@COQ0828]

I’d love to see another one in 2022, i follow your channels and agree with both of you on different things. Watching this vs recent videos I feel like you both have grown so much since. Plus she’s really come a long way since her transition.

[@magicsteve5523]

It’s good to see that June’s famous low resolution has translated to this video as well

[@mikathomo391]

😂

[@mikathomo391]

Thanks 😂 /|\ /\

[@YOSUP315]

Not wanting blindness to be a thing=blind-genocide?

[@trollingonaot9037]

Xander Patten according to his logic. yes.

[@tranquil87]

Blindness is a physical disability. Your analogy doesn't work.

[@YOSUP315]

Both are physical, I don't see your point.

[@MarauderM00gi]

One is a mental disease, the other is a physical disability.

[@YOSUP315]

Man, both those are physical. Is there a point you're trying to make? Why would someone want a mental disease to exist anymore than they'd want blindness to exist?

[@JDSammy]

Blair, love you. Next time someone asks you about being a transwoman and a biological male bring up genotypes and phenotypes. A genotype is your biology. Phenotypes are the physical manifestation of your biology. So men have a genotype of xy and phenotypes of scrotums, penises, etc. One CAN change their phenotype because of modern science. One can NEVER change their genotype.

[@UnusualGibus]

Jonathan Doyle That's a great point, and would seriously be effective on this topic

[@priya3207]

+

[@Narwhy]

5 years later and this topic has blown waaaay up. Awesome Blair. Thanks for bringing the sometimes, unpopular truth, to the fore. Sometimes being 'nice' means speaking or accepting truth.

[@JuggyBohab]

this was ridiculous....his only argument seemed to be "well you're mean" and nothing else also i found it disgusting that he's condoning calling someone bigot, racist, homophobe, nazi, and things along those lines but "you have yellow teeth" is too far...that's asinine.

[@AngusStewart01]

his argument was I don't know who I am and I don't know what I am but I'm right because I feel like it

[@ArachneGillespie]

JuggyBohab it takes the meaning away from words like nazi and invalidates so much of the pain of the holocaust. what contra and other SJWs are doing is disgusting.

[@stellabrown909]

Blaire won this one by far.

[@trashketchum9782]

calling someone a bigot isn’t the same as insulting them lol i thought you people weren’t sensitive snowflakes? thought you could handle being called something you don’t like

[@somecallmemichael]

I would love to see another debate now that Contra has really come into her own. Both of you having the same amount of confidence would change the conversation entirely. An actually impartial moderator would also be great.

[@laylette4017]

I believe Blaire is still more or ledd the same but Contra is definitely in a place where she can fully go outward with her knowledge.

[@somedudeok1451]

If you look past confidence, it's easy to see that Contrapoints still had the better arguments.

[@arielthemermaid3576]

Charles Okonkwo ummm nah

[@nickelhumano0]

@@arielthemermaid3576 Yeah she had, all the arguments Blaire used where things like "I'm just using pure scientific language" and "So your issue with me is that my language is not kind enough?"

[@ThymeofGhost]

Nico she also uses straight facts too. Most trans male or females will tell you that it’s a confusing time for trans pre transition. I’m sure contra probably understands the dysphoria more now that she’s fully transitioned but even still the facts are there that 1 you can’t be trans unless you have dysphoria period, 2 as a trans person you are born and will die the gender you were assigned as at birth and when you get to the nitty gritty nothing not even hormones changes that. Yes you can alter your gender but you can’t just be the other.

[@meiisbei5974]

As a trans person, I completely agree with Blaire about a "cure for transgenderism" Doesn't matter to me if the cure if "this person is now comfortable in their biological sex" or if the cure is "this person is now the biological sex they identify with," either would be a god damn godsend for me.

[@evanl6819]

This^^ I would much rather be happy as my biological gender than have to change it

[@cookiejargamers6495]

so now your the voice of the people

[@xo1537]

Mei IsBei l

[@xo1537]

Mei IsBei plo

[@meiisbei5974]

+Whitney Skyes what?

[@Gunzla33]

5 years later and the worlds gone damn crazy!!

[@TheFunContinues]

Most annoying thing about debating these people is that they only talk about language, never any substance

[@KaiDecadence]

TheFunContinues I've noticed th at. it's always feelings, it's always rare anomalies, always spirituality/differing religious beliefs, nothing actually backed by science

[@TheFunContinues]

The other thing is that it seems to, in this case, just be about what Blaire thinks. The discussion goes from Blaire saying her beliefs to contra saying that Blaires beliefs mean something different. It's an attempt to strawman a live debate, and that doesn't work

[@liotie]

The strawmen tactic was so annoying. Just non-stop.

15 minutes in and I'm already getting annoyed by that feminist saying "assigned gender".. it isn't assigned, it's observed.

[@bosspaw4028]

Sounds of Katajamäki same, I cringed every time he said that.

[@NoeLPZC]

It's assigned based on observation. It's not that difficult.

[@bosspaw4028]

No, me telling my daughter that flower is a rose when she asks what type it is is not me assigning it as a rose, it was already a rose before I identified it to her. Same thing here. When a baby is born it is either a male or female and the doctor tells you what it is based on its characteristics. How is this difficult for you?

[@NoeLPZC]

"it was already a rose before I identified it to her." And let's say your identification was wrong, and the flower was in fact a tulip. What then? Then you in fact MISidentified a tulip as a rose. "When a baby is born it is either a male or female and the doctor tells you what it is based on its characteristics." A doctor cannot see a baby's gender identity. They can identify the _sex_ of the baby, but they cannot identify the _gender_ of the baby. It can only be assumed based on the observed physical characteristics and observed rarity of gender dysphoria, and is thereby assigned to the child rather than identified in the child.

[@SKYOFSPARTANS]

NoeLPZC Wow that is some buzzword salad. There are only two biological genders, or sexes as you like to call it. Identify as whatever you want, but you're still only male or female. I personally identify as a transgender crippled lgbtlmnopqrstuvwxyz+ Muslim atheist stegosaurus.

[@mczee2958]

Oh shoe... I love you, but you are not cut out to be a mod.

[@MFM_Gaming]

Agreed she let slide to many times the rudeness of both parties. A mod should be neutral as well as ready to make sure both sides have a chance to talk and finish a statement. No offense Blaire....

[@Surreal469]

wanderingjellyfish I like that style of modding. #LetThemFight

[@SaccharineHearts]

wanderingjellyfish threw me off when her face randomly popped up

[@Glaaki13]

wanderingjellyfish your not to bright

[@ananya1405]

wanderingjellyfish 😂 so true

[@Stalemarshmallow]

The sharpest distinction I see here is Natalie’s problem with medical talk. She gives objective things so much emotion and drama.

[@trollingonaot9037]

I hate when people call Blaire a nazi. Like wtf.

[@mattworthington7669]

trollingonaot/tubsfullofsunlight could be worse. At least she's not a Commie. Having buzz words thrown at you by these cockwombles should be taken as a badge of honour.

[@mattworthington7669]

But I agree. Blair is clearly not a nazi. Though the word has been rendered meaningless by it's comical, fanatical, over use.

[@oxygencorrosion5640]

Well not really. The word is deffinetly overused but still can get you fired easily.

[@TheEpinema]

Calling someone a Nazi is the sign of a weak argument. There are people who still declare themselves Nazis but you don't see the hurlers of such comments going to have a face-to-face argument with white-supremacists. Clearly they are fighting the true evil.

[@Scorchcast]

I know. I did Nazi that one coming.

[@catboyInWebs]

I love how june is trying to calm them down but fails lmao

[@daisywares1]

Terrible "moderating".

[@jeanmichellelaurent]

Aww bless

[@hellbound9136]

This is a battle of facts versus feelings, I give the belt to facts. Good job Blaire.

[@randomreactions16]

amen! Facts don't care about your feelings!

[@itsGuevara]

FACTSSS

[@justthatgirl-ct4jo]

With that being said, there is room for feelings. Feelings shouldn't have any weight when it comes to facts, but there is a way to present facts in a compassionate manner. Being kind is important if you want a conversation to not break down.

[@randomreactions16]

@@justthatgirl-ct4jo well, what do you do when the people who get so butt hurt over the facts are so very NOT kind? You expect me to be kind to them when they attack me for speaking the truth? When they call me horrible names just because the facts conflict with the way they feel? There are times in life when you just have to be a b**ch. Kindness doesn't always work in every situation. Sometimes you need to get your hands dirty. Just another fact of life.

[@123n704123]

as long they serve your feelings lol

[@Leah112184]

There are certain truths that you're just not allowed to acknowledge apparently. Thank you for telling the truth, Blaire. And they are just pretending not to understand you. They know you're right, but the truth hurts their feelings. It's still the truth though, and they know it.

[@mariussielcken]

How confident can you be while accusing a trans person of transphobia?

[@rocher4767]

I'm a trans person and I'm very transphobic

[@lilithbloom8312]

It’s called self hate

[@AbelRodriguez-er5ht]

It's actually pretty common, since society in general is transphobic. Many trans people may not even realize they're trans until they start to heal their transphobia, and in many cases it doesn't completely go away. Transphobia isn't absolute. It's taught to a lot of us, in many ways. Same thing happens with homophobia, misogyny, ableism, racism and classism.

[@joyciejd9673]

Heard of “internalized homophobia”? The same dynamic is at play in “internalized transphobia”.

[@mariussielcken]

@@joyciejd9673 what is oppressive about Blaire?

[@notquiteanonymous9365]

You can force someone's perception of you about as much as you can force them to laugh at your jokes.

[@michaeldorsey9231]

Holy shit, that's actually a pretty apt analogy. "Hey, I believe my humor is funny, so you should find it funny, otherwise you're invalidating my jokes."

[@blackdakhma]

The thing about gender pronouns is exactly this. It's about perception. This is why the arbitrarily invented non-binary pronouns are absurd because they have no discernible traits to instinctively identify.

[@markyhar2241]

Brian E that is a fucking awesome analogy for it

[@zexonhairi7215]

I mean stalin found the key to making people clap.

[@dragames]

*gets a gun* LAUGH AT MY JOKES

[@aliejvia1009]

I don't know who this other person is, but what I'm seeing is that if Blair doesn't change all her beliefs to match this other person than she is wrong. Blair keep being you! We don't all have to think the same!

[@danisaksson3214]

Generally speaking, if you disagree on something, then hopefully you feel that your opinion is well-founded enough that the other person should take that same stance. It's important to stay open throughout the discussion to recognize if you're wrong but I find comments like "we don't have to agree" to be derivative to the point of having a debate. Maybe you'll find common ground, or maybe one of you is flatout wrong.

[@Grace17524]

It's called a debate for a reason. Not ,"agree to disagree" lol

[@tbow7785]

Dan Isaksson Well stated. And typically that is the case, someone is usually wrong. However when talking about feelings, personal feelings of one’s belief system weather sound and supported by facts to shoot their theories or theories to shoot their facts is equivalent to an emotional blender! Some people can not be convinced especially when their feelings and emotions are involved. Why usually we’ll say let’s agree to disagree at least.

[@tbow7785]

cat1625 Debates are usually scored by a panel of judges who use debate in the sense that they consider both sides head points on the formal discussions before reaching a decision on which team nailed it for lack of a better phrase.

[@goodwork887]

Wow, I can't believe this was 5 years ago. And we're still facing the same Authoritarianism coercion on both the right and left. On the right it says "have this baby, because your state government says so." On the left it says, "call me X because I say so." In both cases there is no expectation of support for anything that would make that the obvious choice. That's why it's a power play. In fact, the demonstration of power is furthered by the difficulty in complying that is also enforced. So let's outlaw sex ed, then outlaw abortion. (With outlawing birth control on the way... wait for it!) And there is no attempt to signal a "she/her" identification, but insistence the person bow to the demand to call them that just because they demand it. So messed up, and I resist.

[@underthegardenwall]

Contrapoints insisting that trans women shouldn't be called "biologically male" and that there's no such thing as "biologically male," yet she says at 18:07 that she herself is "biologically male." MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.

[@Cassiusassius]

The debate was everywhere. The moderator didn’t do her job. Big oof

[@BeeTeaDubs]

I think she could of done well but she's too nice to make her own decision and speak up about when one should talk vs the other. Too bad though. This debate could of brought a lot of progress. But I definitely think they do this again. They've both changed so much.

[@inkajoo]

She did aite.

[@Jane-yg3vz]

Blair said she was only there to make sure they didn't interrupt eachother and she did that. I don't think her role was to actually lead the debate.

[@Cassiusassius]

@@Jane-yg3vz but they talked over each other multiple times, thats why I said she didn't do her job, or at the very least not a good one.

[@Jane-yg3vz]

@@Cassiusassius Yes, and every time they did, the moderator spoke up and redirected the conversation. Are you implying that she should have read their minds and knew beforehand when one of them was going to interrupt? She certainly did a better job than me or most others would have done.

[@amybrookeah]

I cannot legally modify my body with a tattoo until I'm 18 but you think I should be able to alter my body chemistry at 12....? I would much rather live with a stupid picture of homer Simpson with his pants down forever than messing up my chemistry possibly wrecking my future.

[@Robul96]

When I was 12, I couldn't decide which my favorite color was, but I should be able to change my gender? Fuckin hell ppl, let kids be kids... All sjw are cancer, killing our society.

[@amybrookeah]

Rick Harris as a general rule in my house I don't medicate. in the was of the common fever or an ear infection yes but as far as to change my children's ability to behaviors absolutely Not! I was medicated as a child and now have a disorder from it and I would feel horrible if I did this to my child. let them grow old enough to understand the repercussions of their actions fully before they alter themselves on such a great manor

[@amybrookeah]

Rick Harris I also have a brother that has a very severe seizure disorder he needs medicine in order to not die and to function as a whole person. I'm not against life needed medication, but I don't feel like allowing my child to take medication that will alter their future and not kill them is my decision. If you would gave told me as a child that my mother giving me Ritalin would have given me Tourette's syndrome I would have no clue what that meant nor is consequences. now as an adult I wish she would have helped me find other ways to cope with my attention span. please don't insult muy intelligence. you don't know me. And my children are learning how to function just find thank you!

[@meorrrrw4020]

+Robul so what is your favourite colour?

[@Robul96]

Meorrrrw Violet, green and blue... Still can't pick one after almost 9 years 😂😂😂😂😂😎

[@hiiif2470]

Tbh, I expected more from Contra. He started off strong and then I feel like Blaire just dominated afterwards. He seemed kinda scared of her :/ I feel like Blaire would do better by not getting angry, though. A lot of her terrible tweets seem to come out of the heat of the moment, and she'd do better to stay calm and not resort to name calling. Oh, and shoe was the cutest/most useless moderator ever

[@hiiif2470]

I def feel like she could do with some chilling out, especially after last night's twitter exchange with Theryn. However, I sometimes lose my temper when debating so I understand the feeling lol. Overall, I found the debate disappointing on both ends.

[@KaiDecadence]

Nadz a I don't really blame her though. it can be hard to keep composure when it comes to long going topics that you just don't agree with but yeah maybe next time she'll be a little more level headed

[@hiiif2470]

falen yeah I feel that, although that's why I found Contra to be disappointing this time around. He usually makes great points and is funny, but he just seemed uncomfortable here. It seems like he never really wanted to do this from the very beginning.

[@jonathandoe69]

This wasn't like Destiny vs. JonTron where the less experienced debater fumbled in the heat of the moment. Contra was legitimately not even debating for the most part towards the end.

[@kingdomkid7225]

Nadz a being basically called a Nazi during a debate is offensive, and a disgusting attempt to delegitimize your opponents argument. I would've asked him to provide evidence for the position and when he failed to do so, conversation over. You can't establish a base line with someone who argues from pure emotion

[@lizdoodles9128]

"It's an open wound, you can have sex with it but it's a wound" "Okay but it's functioning then" I cannot.

[@emmylou7052]

Literally knows nothing about the actual magic of vaginas lol

[@thecollegedropout2031]

I mean it kinda is. Idk why that’s getting a lot of heat I mean you can literally use the wrong soap and can get an infection from it idk how that’s not wound like.

[@FowlCanuck]

I like how people say conservatives are anti-science. Contra denies basic human biology.

[@DaBarackObama]

Bow to Kim Jong Un!

[@franchiseboy123]

How hard is it for right wingers like you to understand the difference between gender and sex? Why do you think they're different terms? Gender is a sociological construct, sex is a biological reality. No one in the mainstream trans movement denies that. This isn't some contemporary Tumblr creation. Anthropologists, sociologists, historians and psychologists have understood this distinction for more than a century. You just have a knee jerk reaction against anyone not fitting your narrow, pre-conceived conception of purely binary gender. There are countless examples of third genders in historical and contemporary societies. Do you just ignore the Hijras of India and the Fa'afafine or Fakaleiti of Polynesian society? They've been around for millennia. Your comment further proves how social conservatives deny reality that goes against their narrative. You would've said the same anti-scientific bullshit 30 years ago about gay people. But now that it's near impossible to deny their historical existence, you've just shifted your targets. You're an intellectual coward who refuses to accept realities that make you uncomfortable. That's about as un-scientific as it gets.

[@goldenrootsnet]

From a biologist's stand point, in non-human animal research, gender is commonly used to refer to the biological sex of the animals. In many languages there is no difference between gender and sex. Gender as a social construct is only used in Social Sciences. Hard Sciences > Social Sciences.

[@HammersOfSpectacus]

mhm.

[@markyhar2241]

John Nolan TFW gender and sex meant the exact same thing till a paedophile doctor named Dr money ended up muddying the water and making 2 brothers commit suicide by forcing 1 to identify as female due to an accident in circumcision

[@dfygrvty09]

The fact that being trans seems to be a fad, popping up out of nowhere the last couple years, seems to negate the struggles of people who actually suffer with gender dysphoria. It just seems like attention seeking bullshit to me. Given my exposure to individuals with gender dysphoria is quite limited this is quite anecdotal, I just want to say that in my experience I've never seen being misgendered as such a problem as SJWs do. If a genuinely trans individual is misgendered they politely correct the offending individual and they apologize. The other day I was working with a trainer and she was training two new employees, one male and one female. She explained to them that she generally has the male trainees clean the men's room and the female trainees clean the women's room. Then she sent them on their way to their respective duties, but not before the male trainee, who presents entirely as male, pipes up with a "I don't assume a gender." Gtfo with your bullshit before I make you clean both bathrooms. ffs!

[@cantevendoit8054]

Okay Blaire White. How about it isn’t a trend, they’re trans if they’re trans. Theyre non binary if they’re non binary, they’re non gender identifying if they’re non gender identifying. It’s not your life and it’s not effecting you. Stop gatekeeping

[@nadineehab8834]

trans ppl and non binary ppl have always existed, just because now we have words to describe them doesnt mean they didnt exist before or that its somehow a trend.

[@olduser2235]

As soon as Blaire puts on her glasses I know Shit is going down .

[@standamienwalker2278]

Intelligence turns me on a lot and Blaire wearing her glasses is a combination of an orgasm and grabbing popcorn to watch the other side being intellectually crushed until they have no more logic in their statements, if they ever did.

[@ALIVE8455]

She literally started putting them on after I read that lol

[@kathyflorcruz552]

Glimmer DuVaux Lol!

[@olduser2235]

Animal_Activist Here K

[@olduser2235]

Animal_Activist Here Now I see what's up. You're trying to knock others down Bc you like feeling superior... Well you're not. You're just another brick in the wall and when it's all said and done you don't mean shit. Meanwhile the people you are trying to knock down give you an outlet for your meaningless existence. I don't want to continue this. Every argument about trans people falls under one simply thing If it's not your business stay out of it. If she's happy she's happy. If you wanna be a slimy little shit about it do it on someone else's comment . You boring Shit of a human.

[@s13rr4buf3]

Contra points pivoted rather easily from, "What is so hard about being nice to people?" to, "It's us versus them, who would you rather prosecute legally?"

[@CassTeaElle]

I'm so sick of babies who can't handle medical words like "deformity" or "mental condition." Those things aren't negative, they're completely indifferent, scientific, medical terms.

[@punishedcrow]

CassTeaElle lol they say they are against society but the fault of the bad connotation of these words are on society, so they ARE replicating it's behavior after all

[@CassTeaElle]

Exactly! I commented on a different video, her debate with Indigo Foxe I believe, about how if you have a problem with being told you have a mental disorder, if you find that offensive, YOU'RE the one perpetuating the narrative that mental disorders are a "bad" thing to have. If you didn't think there was anything negative or weird or bad about it, you wouldn't be offended by being put in that group of people. Just like I wouldn't be offended if someone said I was feminine, or that I'm a girl, because there's nothing wrong with being a girl, so there's nothing offensive about that

[@CassTeaElle]

Also, I think people are often getting offended for other people. Like you'll notice, almost every time Blaire asks a trans person directly, why do you take offense to that, they usually respond with "well I don't really, but I think SOME people have an issue with the negative connotations." I just wonder how many people actually do have a problem with it, or if they're all just getting preemptively angry for the potential of someone else maybe being offended.

[@tmusic18]

This was a bad showing for Contra. It's disappointing because his scripted videos are so well done, but any illusion that I had of him being a prolific thinker was shattered after this debate. Blaire is not an intellectual heavyweight but she handily made his arguments look totally illogical more often than not, to the point where he couldn't even rationalize them with his superior public speaking skills. When he knew he was losing, he shifted the focus to semantics and started making petty arguments about certain word choices being "too mean". Embarrassing. I guess this is what happens when you leftists out of their safe space.

[@CassTeaElle]

Jay L Agreed. I actually love that Blaire doesn't usually have a bunch of notes or anything for these debates. It shows, to me, that she really knows what she's talking about and is a logical person, because she doesn't even need actual studies or sources in order to completely destroy someone's argument.

[@sal8527]

Blaire was totally right that we can wish for a cure without thinking tran-people are awful as people, or for that cure being equivalent to genocide. Spoken as the mother of a child who's actually suffered from gender dysphoria, I can definitely say that if it could have been alleviated with a pill, that would obviously be preferable to dangerous and expensive surgeries. I enjoy Contra's Content, generally, but he did not come into this with "good faith". He made it clear on Patreon that his only real hope was to make Blaire look bad.

[@DrSilentShadows]

Lul, from the get-go this dude was on a mission not to win the battle of ideas, but to slander another person. nice people in the LGBT tumblr community you got there.

[@msrainbowbrite]

Sally... are you a kiwi?

[@sal8527]

MsRainbow Brite Funny you should ask. I'm not, but I did live in NZ for a little over a year in the mid-90s. Wellington to be precise. Best place in the world, imho. What gave it away I wonder?

[@sal8527]

Ah! My silver fern icon!

[@msrainbowbrite]

I agree, NZ is awesome. Love my counry

[@pgs9407]

Boiling it down; all they're really arguing is terminology.

[@dianamajka1060]

Panzer GS Exactly

[@StayClear4321]

like most arguments of this topic

[@thelilabides]

This whole debate was so interesting, I’d love to see you both do another one and see how your views have evolved!

[@SunIsLost]

Yea

[@pale2244]

I cannot take the guy seriously. He looks absolutely ridiculous. He never got to a point, he was constantly looking down which was really annoying. I honestly dont think he knows what he's talking about. Every time he attacked Blaire about something, when she answered, he ended up saying he agrees with her and then goes around in circles and changing subjects. He was really annoying to listen to smh. I really dont know how Blaire kept her cool with him, i wouldve started screaming.

[@whoknows4780]

The biggest point of departure between these two (at least for the first half of the video) seems to be that Blaire believes in gender essentialism that includes the possibility of some fluidity and Contra believes in more gender freedom and respect for individuals' wishes. Blaire sees transitioning as an imperfect treatment for gender dysphoria and Contra sees transitioning as affirming someone's sense of gender/sex. That's what I'm getting out of this. Thoughts? Clarifications?

[@petitechiroptera1347]

Annie Beguhl that's what I understood this debate as too

[@sywitz]

Annie Beguhl It should also be mentioned that Contra made a distinction between ppl like Blaire with gender dysphoria and ppl who just prefer identifications different from their birth identify... like the difference between ppl with celiac and ppl who choose to go gluten free. Blaire invalidates gluten-free dieters while Contra validates them. In my opinion, it really doesn't matter how each of them perceive it (technically vs. emotionally). It only matters that they respect them as human beings, which both Blaire and Contra would do anyway! TLDR the debate becomes arbitrary.

[@philipocarroll]

Annie Beguhl Blaire White is from the right wing view that women are women and men are men. Blaire: Gender and sex are the same. Any blurring of this boundary is wrong to the right. Naturally being a trans woman and politically right creates a huge problem for her self identity. Hence she tries to frame it as a form of self expression or in her words a "pretence". Natalie is taking the view that gender is far more complicated than external genitals and xy chromosomes. E.g. there have always been women with xy chromosome that don't even know it. Natalie: Gender and sex are different.

[@izumi3574]

I’m new to Blaire’s channel, and after listening to this debate, i gotta say i stand by Blaire’s realism regarding being biologically female or being biologically male and the fact that she acknowledges her birth gender/sex .

[@vegan.3176]

Also Blaire says she does not believe in gender (because she‘s not like other trans people) and then states that you can be a biological male but live as a woman. -which is exactly what gender means, a social construct, a performance

[@jessevans8982]

@@vegan.3176 woman is the definition of a adult female while girl is the definition for a female who isn’t adult or hasn’t been through puberty yet that’s the typical meaning but the social construct of it is the idea of what a female (biological woman/girl) is or how one should dress act woman does have a meaning to it other wise it wouldn’t be a identity just a word its the gender roles aint real which woman and men have been tryna break for centuries now also dressing like a woman could mean different things trans meaning u identity as female and go by female identity and dress feminine or transvestite a biological man who identifies as male and goes by male identity but dress feminine

[@tracygrant7931]

Most trans acknowledge their biological sex though and don't deny it at all. I mean why else do you think they go on "sex" replacement hormone therapy (well sex replacement therapy to an extent, pertaining to certain external sex characteristics)? They know mate 🤣 you're only listening to the real woke ones. They acknowledge it but they don't let it take precedence over their lives, and take precedence over how they want to be seen by people they communicate with daily.

[@irishcajun85]

@@vegan.3176she’s very aware of the difference in gender identity and sex, she just believes it’s a binary, and believes she’s still biologically male despite living as a woman. That’s literally what transitioning is.

[@chrismauck6572]

​@@vegan.3176 Gender and biology is THE SAME THING... I agree, science for all of time agrees, most all the people in the world living and have died agree... that is why she says that... She knows and understands that gender IS NOT DIFFERENT from biology. That is why she says that.... Ughh

[@DeepSeas..]

1. Deformity is a valid medical term. 2. Vaginoplasty “bottom surgery” does create a gaping wound that desperately wants to close.

[@pedroantonio5565]

Nobody cares

[@danielleschiazza6172]

​@@pedroantonio5565obviously u do!

[@theblankslate8324]

19:46 "Genitals are socially constructed" Jesus. This is where contra completely lost me. He seems to think the difference between an artificially created and naturally functioning vagina is a matter of language and interpretation. "It's a matter of how you're choosing to evaluate it". This is postmodernism in action.

[@y0ujellybr0]

Gabriel Lucas unbelievable how it only took 20 minutes before it became ludicrous.

[@nolancampbell1126]

Yeah, Contra lost me when he suggested taking hormones was a normal biological occurrence. wtf - Makes no sense.

[@muddywitch9016]

Yes, genitals are socially constructed - especially when using a knife in an operating room.

[@cinema991]

Poor June looked so uncomfortable...

[@mvnkycheez]

She's too sweet for her own good

[@Shark-vi2cz]

She did agree to being the moderator.

[@mshilton4ever]

he's being so contradictory by comparing homosexuality to a mental disorder

[@JamesJones-zt2yx]

If the increase in transitioning isn't just the latest fad, then shouldn't the suicide rate have been higher in the past?

[@lomouche]

If they debated this exact topic today, I'm sure we'd get a vastly different conversation. I don't know about Blaire, but Contra's views today don't completely align with the ones she presented here.

[@frosksdeadteeth5163]

That's because she has autogynephilia, which is incredibly complicated. Blaire is HSTS, which is far simpler. Rod Fleming has a channel explaining the difference if you don't want to read the papers by Ray Blanchard or Anne Lawrence. Or you can listen to interviews with Blanchard or J Michael Bailey (who received hostility over his book from AGPs who deny the theory). Or James Cantor.

[@sarah-js2et]

@@frosksdeadteeth5163 instead of writing all that to tell us how many niche things you can name you could've just elaborated on what you were actually talking about

[@frosksdeadteeth5163]

@@sarah-js2et not really😕 unfortunately KZbin just deletes comments with links or unsavoury language. Plus it's extremely complicated. If you watch rod Flemings videos on autogynephilia he explains it very well. Or if you read the medical papers, but they are hard going and very long.

[@KaliDurga108]

@@sarah-js2et "im dumb, please elaborate"

[@lovejunkie6078]

@@sarah-js2et a quick google search said that autogynephelia is a man who gets off to being a woman (a man who is romantically and sexually attracted to BEING a woman).

[@KershawIII]

A soft spoken bunny might not be the best choice for a mod lol

[@oz_jones]

I would have gone with Jeff Holiday.

[@Isaacindelicato123]

lolllll I adore Shoe, but I completely agree

[@Jlmproductions99]

The word "Deformity" is actually a medical term dont believe me look it up, Blaire is using the word correctly, and I'd go as far to say Natalie is uneducated on that fact. Blaire is not wrong by saying having a body part that doesnt go correctly with your biological sex is considered a Deformity. Not a bad thing necessarily, it is what it is. All in all it was great debate

[@beefortebrea9386]

I can't believe this actually has to be said

[@eurovision50]

Exactly. I don't get why people can't call a spade a spade.

[@Meleena2218]

thank god I'm not the only one who got angry at this. there's something about today's day an age where people get highly offended at certain usage of words: Old, elder, deformity, mutation, imitation, and such. the words aren't degrading its calling a spade a spade. On the flip side, though, i have a family member who is mentally delayed (the actual new terminology idk what one they would fall under.) BUT when they were born this was back in the early 90's the medical definition they were given for their birth defect was, in fact, mental retardation. now, we see the R word and that's a big no no today. that's an example of a word that would be insulting to use and incorrect to today's standards.

[@pommiebears]

I agree with you all too. It’s extremely frustrating.

[@themessjess4860]

Policing language is just a way for SJW crowd to gatekeep.