Hedonism, Taboos, Society, and Deprivation | Ben Shapiro | EP 418

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson speaks with best-selling author, commentator, rapper, and co-founder of The Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro. They discuss the postmodern twisting of religious conceptions, the proclivity for hedonism to propagate at the edges of shared ideals, the danger of a society which has no shared ideals, the necessity of deprivation, and the case for a transcendent narrative in regards to long-term societal benefits.
Ben Shapiro is the co-founder and Editor Emeritus of The Daily Wire and host of “The Ben Shapiro Show,” the largest conservative podcast in the nation. In addition, he also hosts “Debunked,” “The Search,” and “The Sunday Special.”
This episode was recorded on January 11th, 2024
Dr. Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: bit.ly/3KrWbS8
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- Chapters -
(0:00) 2024 Tour
(0:39) Coming up
(1:09) Intro
(2:55) The Enlightenment was wrong, prioritizing narrative values
(7:13) Conditional probability in AI, mapping frameworks of meaning
(11:20) The prioritization of the victim/victimizer dynamic as the cardinal story of mankind
(18:40) The unjust steward, there is utility in serving mammon properly
(22:22) Christianity is not in direct conflict with capitalism
(27:18) The explanatory narratives that rise with the demented state
(33:24) Hedonic drives are primordial short-term determinations
(37:18) Our proclivity to violate taboos, and what happens when we have none left
(39:19) We experience reward only in relation to an aim
(40:46) Surfeit, scarcity, novelty, and deprivation
(47:00) The commonalities of stories amalgamate into archetypes
(50:24) The storyteller matters as much as the story
(52:11) You cannot reduce the transcendent to the subjective
(58:11) The use of religion to manipulate, taking Gods name in vain
(1:02:12) Without reverence for tradition, we become slaves to the margins
(1:09:31) Hardship creates strong people, padding creates weak people
(1:13:21) We all start out helpless, but we are not all victims
(1:15:13) We have marginalized the role of the elderly in our society
(1:18:44) Voluntary responsibility equals meaning
(1:20:53) When to tolerate and reprimand a child
(1:25:50) We have a growing need for intergenerational dialogue
(1:27:40) Cultural crisis and political disillusionment
(1:29:51) People are longing for a return to first principles
(1:32:38) When we can’t agree on sexual identification, all commonality is gone
(1:35:11) Getting back to the campfire
(1:37:54) Ackman vs. Gay, The stability of the West
(1:41:46) The rebuilding process is not hopeless
(1:44:36) Your true legacy is your children
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[@Milestonemonger]

Jordan Peterson interviewing the No. 1 selling rap artist in America.

[@owusuafriyiedennis4386]

Say it again 😊

[@sues3218]

The Young Turks heads are exploding, and the comment section is razzing them big time. LOL I have a few words for TYT.... U mad, U mad, U mad.

[@TheTylerGeissler]

L I T E R A L L Y 😭🤣

[@BarbraBond]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@bentstraw827]

Its funny because its true

[@joitus]

“Well more is better, right? Wrong. The right amount is better. And having the right amount requires some level of deprivation.” WOW. So simple yet so profound.

[@cactus3051]

Lagom!

[@jshtux]

that is in line with the ancient greeks idea of what constitutes virtue; it is the right amount of something, not too much, not little. just the right amount of something is the virtuous amount

[@mjbull5156]

Yes, an excess can merely result in waste.

[@selin5266]

Lmfao is this sarcastic? It’s such a banal statement

[@BrodeyDoverosx]

@@selin5266study more philosophy and realize the irony of your reply .

[@TheKnightOperator]

"Everyone will grow old, therefore, the the way we treat the elderly, is how we treat ourselves." - Jordan Peterson

[@sarahevans3622]

Dr Peterson, you probably don't read these posts but I can't thank you enough for pulling me out of the depths of hell so many times. Whenever I am struggling, I listen to you and regain my bearings. God bless you- see you in Durham NC!!

[@knblibra]

THIS! ❤ I could have wrote this myself, I swear. JP has helped me see Truth in ways I never thought possible, while simultaneously helping me survive (literally) the deepest depression I've ever been in. And I'll see him in St. Louis, MO!! I'm more excited to hear him speak on "We Who Wrestle With God" than I've ever been for any concert or show.

[@kittybitts567]

God bless, protect and keep you always in His care in Jesus' Holy Name, Amen.

[@michelle1772]

It makes me so happy to see more & more people talking openly about God. Jordan has been instrumental in bringing this important subject to the fore. The Left, mainstream media, big celebs, big govt, et cetera, have been trying to move us as far away from God as possible. But God always wins. It has been written!

[@knblibra]

@@michelle1772 "It shall be known!" I agree!! I think part of it is the absolute madness overtaking the used to be civil world. The younger generations are seeing this and they're like "wtf, no," and seeking God on their own. They've realized what some of the older generations haven't, life DOES have meaning and purpose. Saying that nothing means anything hasn't done the world much good, so they're turning back to the old ways. Tried, true, and tested. I have faith that good and God shall prevail. I spread His word to encourage those who are lost, we've gotta help them find their way back to His path. I think that's the most important thing we can be doing right now!

[@Cander617]

Man's like a father to me, I agree

[@chaimflam5906]

do i see a rap collab with jordan?

[@Watch-Crazy]

This ☝️

[@SchlockstarJoe]

It’s called a “joint”

[@victorygarden556]

Need this

[@FirstName-rt9uf]

Boats 'n' Hoes, Daily Wire remix

[@legacywatchguy8333]

Well, JP has one music video under his belt already...I think he's ready.

[@TheLastPirate1973]

Jordie B and Benshizzle’s new hit single “ Clean your room, you dolt”

[@youtubedick-tators1991]

Bloody hell, quite literally

[@3ZEBRA]

"JBP" could be "Jay-Beepy"

[@aligin]

@@3ZEBRAor Dr. J😅

[@thinclient5318]

Slim Shapy ft Slim Jordy.

[@noneofyourbusiness5722]

Ben is Jewpac

[@tyler9281]

Dr. Peterson was instrumental in my faith journey. I was lost, directionless, and without true meaning before I oriented myself to God. I offer up all my suffering and pain to Jesus Christ. God bless you all.

[@kittybitts567]

God bless, protect and keep you always in His care in Jesus' Holy and Mighty Name, Amen and Amen.

[@Imitatechrist]

@@kittybitts567 ✝️🕯

[@juan.zabala]

Note that you've never seen Jordan ever said words like this. He advocates for belief in god but he's not an actual believer beyond the metaphor.

[@Imitatechrist]

@@juan.zabala Note that you don't pay close attention. Have you seen him cry talking of Jesus?

[@juan.zabala]

@@Imitatechrist you don't have to believe in the that sanctity of a character for a story to be moving. He doesn't believe that Jesus was the actual son of god or that there is a real thing called heaven or hell. He simply talks about myths.

[@pattichapman7296]

I was born in 1955 in a small town, about 6,000 people. If I was out & did something wrong, not only was I disciplined, I knew my parents would hear about it & discipline me again!! It was encouragement now to act up in public or anywhere else!! It wasn’t a good idea, it was a GREAT idea!! You can tell by kids behavior that it’s needed now. Thank you for this discussion!!

[@zoomby4380]

Self discipline would be more concrete. Some don't care if they are punished, as someone noticed them and gave them attention. When self discipline happens, that's when we grow up, to know that we won't allow ourselves to give into wrong doing. 😊

[@pattichapman7296]

@@zoomby4380 I don’t believe we learn self discipline in a vacuum. We learn self discipline by being disciplined. JHIF

[@zoomby4380]

@@pattichapman7296 True with family. Yet so many today are in Dysfunctional families. Schooling today is not about reading, writing....but been a victim. I hope you can change this lack of discipline.....with Grandchildren....nephews and nieces...cousins.

[@tabularasa164]

Exactly! I probably saved myself tons of troubles because of the small town non-anonymity 😅 my husband and I chose the same - a smaller town to live in for our children. Best decision ever

[@GabeSutton21]

​@@zoomby4380How do you expect children to "self-discipline" themselves?? Do you have kids?

[@MiguelCorreiaDaCunha]

"The more responsabilities I have, the cooler my life is." I like that.

[@kit-ja]

To a point for sure.... Burn out is no joke....balance is key in my humble opinion

[@aligin]

Which could also translate to I like power

[@tangerinesarebetterthanora7060]

Some people have very boring lives with lots of responsibilities, they are obligated to do the same menial tasks each day as opposed to somebody without many responsibilities who can have more potential freedom in that regard.

[@Justineyedia]

Tell yourself The pacebo effect and confirmation bias

[@justinengland9814]

Be careful what you wish for, why do you think it is 'cool'? Depends on what the responsibility is surely?

[@DonPandon]

Can you imagine Dr. Peterson throws some rhymes just for the fun of it. What a time to be alive.

[@BubbaabbuB]

Yeah, I imagine it would even more cringe than Ben, and I would be correct.

[@zackwalker1721]

@@BubbaabbuB No way. He's got more bars than the gulags. (He has my blessing to steal that one)

[@jmortyballs]

Pingtrip plz

[@zoorenard1101]

If I could recollect before my hood days I sit and reminisce, thinking of bliss and the good days I stop and stare at the younger My heart goes to ’em, they tested with stress that they under And nowadays things change Everyone’s ashamed of the youth *‘cause the truth look strange* And for me it’s reversed We left ’em a world that’s cursed and it hurts ‘Cause any day they’ll push the button, and all good men like Malcolm X or Bobby Hutton died for nothin’ Don’t it make you get teary? The world looks dreary When you wipe your eyes see it clearly There’s no need for you to fear me If you take your time and hear me Maybe you can learn to cheer me *It ain’t about black or white, ‘cause we human* I hope we see the light before it’s ruined; my ghetto gospel” - Tupac Shakur

[@solaveritas2]

Akira the Don has come close to that by integrating JBP's speeches into music

[@johnvetter1849]

A seminar on the Gospels!!! YES PLEASE

[@actionottawa]

Go to Jordan’s KZbin playlists on his profile and look for “The psychological significance of the biblical lectures” series. It’s one of the best free knowledge sources I’ve ever listened too on very similar subjects discussed on this podcast episode. It’s an in depth version of those topics. 👍

[@christelwilk6166]

@@actionottawayes, they are pure gold

[@LW-Isaiah40-60]

I'd like to see Dr Peterson continue with the old testament first to review the book of Isaiah and invite Rabbi Tovia Singer to the table to tap into his vast knowledge.

[@305Independent]

I swear I could watch these two talk all day

[@cry_now_laugh_later]

I know what you mean I am gay too

[@Danzigsam]

I know, right? For free, even.

[@user-us3fy3tt1e]

Me too! I don’t know how to explain it, but it’s really captivating to see them both listen to each other. I feel like in general, others can’t keep up with them. This conversation feels inspiring and affirming; we are not crazy for refusing to partake in the new, hellish culture and having integrity will pay off 🥰

[@_RavishingRaven_]

Honestly same!

[@knblibra]

Agreed! My 2 favorite podcasters, listening to each other in an honest, good-faith discussion about what the hel! is wrong with the world and possibly how to fix it. Sign me up every single time.

[@GinaMcKeown-xm5hw]

I live in Belfast. And jordon petterson is my hero 🎉thank you.

[@Mebzy]

Represent

[@tahah.babikir7698]

Doctor Peterson, you're always an inspiration to me. May God bless your legacy.

[@danfontaine8179]

@@fog8969to err is human

[@dmiles3270]

Amen

[@Xjhindx]

@@fog8969to use Gods name in vein is a sin…we are all sinners, we all sin. God still blesses sinners

[@sarahevans3622]

Me too! This man has pulled me out of the depths more times than I can count!

[@sarahevans3622]

Me too! This man has pulled me out of the depths more times than I can count!

[@jlaughlin1973]

I thoroughly enjoy listening to both of these men and getting them together is incredible, even though I didn't understand a word of what they said.

[@elizabeth84266]

I also love both of these guys and had a hard time following lol. But I’ll listen to it again bc I know they are speaking of very important topics, that I’ll benefit from understanding.

[@Mrswig7]

I feel the same way I enjoy listening. I have a hard time understanding they both use such intlegent words. I feel like the more I listen, the more understanding I get.

[@Markburton86]

Same 😂

[@haraldthi]

Yay! I too, find it much better to listen to people I really struggle to understand in hopes to understand at least half of it, than listen to drivel just because someone finds they earn more from aiming to a lowest common denominator. Few want to admit there are things we can't understand,sure enough. But the easy route will make us into idiots and losers, so perhaps it's better to struggle after all.

[@von_2.0]

I commend you who have a hard time understanding because this shows you’re eager to learn. This is important and provides you with knowledge which is power. God bless you for your humility. Never change that virtue. Lean into it. ❤

[@aa333796]

from time to time, it's nice to hear a discussion at such a high level, with two people who can formulate long, multi-level arguments that look deep into society and come to interesting conclusions.

[@kathym.248]

And aren't we lucky to have them to listen to at our fingertips? Even when it's a bit challenging. They know society is a mess and they're putting themselves out there trying to help, making a huge difference.

[@Supermoneygang12]

Not to be a dick, but Shapiro isn’t even playing in the same league as JP.

[@darrenpursuingtruth2895]

Thank you to Jordan and Ben for sharing this thoughtful conversation. Thank you both for being a voice of reason and decency in these troubled times.

[@Joao-uj9km]

I'm a physics PhD student in South Brazil 🇧🇷. Some of my colleagues are in LLM's and I follow along, on a highly technical level whats going on with their evolution. Hearing JP speak about them is not only novel to me, but incredibly deep and logical. Which makes him a true genius to me. The guy is like as technical, deep and careful with his concepts, premises and logic as a pure mathematician or theoretical physicist are with their arguments. ❤

[@anguslennon6859]

You speak fantastic English

[@KaarinaKimdaly]

Oppenheimer was a genius and Ted Kaczynski was a mathematical genius, too. I think they both also qualify as "deep" , and they both paid a heavy price for their depth. . . and so did others because of the use of the bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which I read was not necessary to use, since the Japanese were already going to surrender. Hubris Is an horrible vice. The ambition to advance academically with only one's cerebral intelligence without the balancing and centering of the truly human heart is a recipe for disaster.

[@conhecimentoepoder9596]

🇧🇷👏👏

[@zoorenard1101]

​@@KaarinaKimdalyyou seems like the type who hates lemonade cause its made out of citrus. Yes, theres some bad willed actors in the world, doesnt mean you have to lecture everyone for what others did.

[@KevinS47]

I completely agree! I am doing my masters in theoretical at the moment!! Where are you from more specifically? Sao Paulo or more south of that?

[@pi1810]

This was really a good conversation. What a relief that it was not political. Thank you.

[@takeeverythingin]

i'm an hour in and i don't see a conversation. i see Jordan on overdrive and Ben waiting to throw in a word or two, when allowed..

[@jameslarge434]

@@takeeverythinginTo be fair he’s talking about pretty complex things that I think require alot of time to talk about properly

[@Tristangames699]

@@takeeverythingin Peterson isn't interviewing Ben. He has ideas that he wants to throw at Ben and get his feedback/perspective, because he respects his perspective.

[@153bigfishes]

I managed to watch (and understand) Ben Shapiro with 1.5x speed. I feel like a hero

[@SouLightness]

😂😂😂

[@phoenixreborn2907]

Amen. I got my tickets for his tour in Manchester, nh, on Monday. I'm so excited to see him speak and to find others around who are also intrigued by his knowledge and want to learn more.

[@chrishostetler3576]

"There's nothing more cowardly than attacking the dead because even more than the unborn they can't defend themselves" JP

[@boristeka9515]

Listening to this conversation literally makes you gain brain cells

[@sddfsfsfsd]

Dr. Peterson and his position about a humanities degree's purpose in life is what made me follow that route. I know how to make ends meet besides humanities, but humanities is what gives us an overarching view of the world.

[@alejandrinahs]

Both intellectuals are impressively informative. As much as one can comment on what Ben Shapiro has to say, it cannot be argued he has a spectacular ability to listen.

[@rouke3254]

That's because Ben knowns when he has something of value to gain from someone else. One could argue that JP is the father of modernism of our era.

[@mind_symbol]

it’s amazing to see Dr. Peterson’s progression as a podcaster, just as it is amazing to witness the formation of his ideas in real time. this is top tier content. ideas as complex as they are important, articulated with lethal precision. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@zackwalker1721]

I absolutely agree that Peterson has a lot to offer. As far as what he's providing with this podcast specfically though, I think there's better examples of what Peterson has to offer. He's a lot better at talking than he is at talking to others if the distinction makes sense.

[@Leo-mr1qz]

Always a pleasure to listen to these two scholars. Thank you. 😇

[@moonasha]

very glad to see a more philosophy / psychology oriented episode, rather than a negative depressing politics episode.

[@paulscott8656]

Ha! Sister Meriam 😎

[@wheatley9601]

Yeah jp hit the nail on the head before when he said that Shapiro is wasted on politics, but the same is true of himself from time to time

[@popo0129]

I really liked that. I was expecting them to go over the state of the world right now mainly in American and Canada but what we got was something I feel way more necessary. Just going back on what these faiths teach and these philosophies is something that is necessary to understand deeply how horrible some of the current day events and the few people who unknowingly encourage more chaos are.

[@sislau]

I remember when these two met (a Dave Rubin interview with both of them). Their friendship has blossomed over the years on several levels, and that's been so much fun to watch. To me, listening to their insanely intelligent delve at length into the topics discussed in this interview, this is listening to two genius friends bounce ideas off each other. It's at such a high level it's almost incomprehensible to the common man. What a treat that they shared this conversation with us.

[@alextheman3330]

Men everywhere need to hear these 2 men talking!

[@marycrawford9428]

Yes but don’t stop there. People everywhere need to hear these two men talking!

[@jkmasonryvideo]

Dr. Peterson and Mr. Shapiro - Thank you. This presentation is a magnificent example of the capacity for the conversation of two wise men to elevate ideas to a place 'greater than the sum of their parts.' Your willingness and ability to combine and share your individual reserves of comprehension, discernment, and wisdom, is a great blessing to all who will watch and listen. The presentation is exemplary of the very issues you are discussing: Face to face, meaningful conversation is the thing missing from and desperately needed by our modern society; Wisdom received from respected elders is better wisdom, precisely because the storyteller matters to the story; Virtual presence means actual absence; More screen time means the 'observer' suffers reduced comprehension, precisely because the absence of face to face interaction means only the observer's perspective is available to interpret the screen. With this conversation you are 'modeling' - the very 'modeling' and types of conversations you advocate - and your example utilizes the aforementioned 'screen' media in the most beneficial possible way, overcoming some of the screen's limitations by presenting your ideas through a process of each illuminating the others perspective through reflection, commentary, and exchange. Brilliant, a blessing, and Bravo! Perhaps you would consider doing the same together in a book?

[@NarrativeArcade]

Absolute love the discussion surrounding stories and LLMs! Narrative is everything. That's how I view storytelling and how I break down stories. People are tricked by hyperreality portrayed in films and videogames, thinking their lives do not follow the dramatic arc or that it's somehow separate. The only difference is the amount of mundane activities in reality vs. hyperreality. Your life does not bend as sharply like a dramatic arc in a movie, but you are governed by the same principles that we screenwriters use. You either change your flaws or you go down with them. A story as old as humanity.

[@dzmitryluhauskoi6363]

Thank you, I’m extremely pleased with a level of discourse.

[@danielcicin3359]

The message these two are spreading is amazing. I wish as a Canadian that North America as a whole can get back to these core values and prosper once again.

[@user-kn1jg6cs3y]

There was so much discussed in this interview that I'm so glad I had the opportunity to listen to and to hear, because I've learned so much. And what I've learned is that, yes, I need a hierarchy of values, And, I need to know what those values are. Are they good, are they bad, are they insane, are they stupid, are they helpful, are they not? I've been spending a lot of time thinking through what my wants and needs are, but I also believe that I need to know what I value before I can get there. This interview has shined a light on another way for me to do that. I'm very grateful.

[@haywiretj]

Thank you for sharing these core values and insights about the fabric of society we live in today. I didn't understand all the technical jargon, or philosophical principles, but I expect from what I did understand, it is worthwhile to listen to this over a few times to learn the concepts, or Ben and Dr. Peterson wouldn't have spent their time elaborating in these venues. I believe these men are truly on the cutting edge of shaping the future, through elucidation of higher principles and moral values, in order to offset the fracturing and volatile course that is so apparent in politics, social media, and our education system.

[@verena11]

Thank you. I enjoyed this. No fighting, just two smart men listening to each other and learning from each other. Wouldn' t it be nice, if ppl did this more often. I learnt some things too.

[@rc54]

I absolutely love hearing brilliant people, particularly when I am actually able to follow the concepts.

[@Supermoneygang12]

We’re unbelievably lucky to have Dr. JP blessing us with this information for free on KZbin. God bless this man. 😭 how many lives has he set on the path to redemption.

[@lindam7584]

The blessing during these times is the meeting of the “great minds “ and we the people are granted the opportunity to listen in. How beautiful. 🙏❤️

[@kathym.248]

Yes, isn't that amazing? There is so much awful in our world, but to have access so readily to discussions at this level, both that they make themselves available and we have the technology to do it, is marvellous. If we're able to save ourselves it will be because of this.

[@seankelly328]

Amazing conversation, Thanks Dr Peterson and Ben Shapiro 😊

[@BlackElephantProject]

It’s good to see Jordan speaking with a black man about important cultural issues.

[@tripslikstar]

Winner 🏆 hahaha

[@andrewappleby1295]

Black people aren’t the only ones to ever have cultural issues of racism and segregation. Nor have they had it the worst

[@caseyweatherwax7765]

I'm going to be endlessly hoping you two continue onto a part 2 over these discussions from this parts ending chats to how you both had started. We are living out the end...🤕🙏

[@von_2.0]

This was such a great conversation. Pure gold ❤

[@Breathoffreshair88]

Fantastic interview I wish there were more people to talk with that speak this language it’s so refreshing 🙏

[@dustinarnold9639]

Well done Dr. Peterson. Hope to see you in the spring when you come through the south!

[@breakingreat]

Please, bring Tomas Sowell to your Podcast, Dr. Peterson. Thanks!

[@Shnap1337]

Holy shit, he's alive?!

[@breakingreat]

@@Shnap1337 Yessss

[@RedMage999]

Dr. Peterson and Ben!!❤😂 Yayyyy! Love this, and loved {FACTS} with Tom MacDonald! What a treat for us All😊

[@swtblake]

Thank you both so much for these conversations. You help me make connections that deepen my convictions.

[@leannek8132]

Love you 2. Thank you so much for your efforts. Much love from a Canadian Christian.

[@robertgruber4361]

Great stream. Thank you both for your wisdom and time.

[@wazer85]

❤ always a joy to watch a long discussion between these two intellectuals

[@CNote-lx3ws]

congratulations to Ben on his powerful ascent to the king of rap. Looking forward to the Collab with Dr. J. P.

[@m.l.benson2055]

My 22 yr old Son purchased VIP tickets for Himself, Me and my 20yr old daughter. A gift for my 47th Birthday! Tulsa Oklahoma venue... I am BEYOND Excited. In the past few years I have been "WRESTLING" with my own faith. Dr. Peterson, your EXODUS Series has Catapulted my understanding of the bible and its LESSONS forward at such a pace I find myself reading ALL things God, The Bible & the Trinity as fast as I am able. There are No words or amount of money that can express my gratitude. In addition Tammy 's story and her dedication to the Rosary has inspired me in a way I can't come close to describing. THANK YOU BOTH FROM THE DEPTHS OF MY SOUL❤

[@summan41man]

Hearing enthusiasm like this is my interpretation of the Holy Spirit. You have expressed your joy and gratitude in few words, and it has been ignited by the great man that is Jordan Peterson, and equally, if not more, importantly by your conscientious family. God bless you.

[@venetiansunrise481]

Excellent discussion! ❤ Wow! Weaving a path forward even for Sam Harris. And giving me such a view into how the Bible connects all these themes. I am so honored to have access to this conversation. Thank you. I've saved it and will listen again many times. You are a gift to the world, Dr. Peterson, and give me lots of personal guidance in my life.

[@markmartin7384]

One of the most interesting talks in a while

[@JonnyBeoulve]

First 15 minutes perfectly nails modern Western society.

[@kbeetles]

This was energising, intellectually and spiritually! - thank you!

[@matthewgreenawalt439]

Good talk. Grateful to you both and that everything you discussed made good sense to me. Praise God

[@melon-pv1cj]

Oooo!!!! Very excited for the gospel seminar! I was hoping ya'll would make that happen. I agree greatly with needing someone around to explain better the Bible. I've been tackling reading the Bible for the first time and I am often left with zero understanding so I'm always googling what certain things mean. The genesis and exodus videos have been extremely helpful to me. Thank you Jordan Peterson!!

[@edshipman8814]

Hopefully one of these days im gonna shake your hand to thank you n yours for all the help. Peace n Love

[@AB-mw7hd]

Jordan and ben you are such an important people for our world it is so beautiful listening to you guys speak about christianity and judaism

[@lacyhart7707]

My husband makes fun of me every time he hears the violin sounds start in your intro as I listen to you before bed. Good way to wind down. Thanks Dr. Peterson 💕

[@edwardhorvath2256]

Cringe

[@misterdeluxia5948]

@@edwardhorvath2256 how?

[@lacyhart7707]

@@edwardhorvath2256 🤷🏼‍♀️ you’ll be ok

[@recoveringsoul755]

And it wakes him up? If someone is sleeping, why disturb them? These Are long videos

[@lacyhart7707]

@@recoveringsoul755 lol it doesn’t happen often it’s just when he happens to hear it. He thinks it’s cute. Geez

[@QCMaverick]

Jordan & Ben Gem (1:16:00): People go to their elders on their own accord to seek their wisdom. In that model, people support their elders as they grow older. Once the states takes away this wisdom and the government turns it into power over their citizen, then the need of the new generation to rely on their elders is gone and you get a crumbling society where elders need assistance from the state to survive.

[@ruthyk7083]

Jordan and Ben are pointing directly to "Pilpul"/פילפול. And learning what wise and righteous leaders across generations say is the best way through the life.

[@Charlessantos-ox8ju]

I wish the best for you Jordan here from Brazil

[@johnheart6890]

I am going to buy his book for sure!

[@b.scroggins3522]

I love Jordan. His voice, dialogue and insight.

[@r.davidyoung7242]

Brilliant conversation. Thank you.

[@BrendonTristal]

So glad to see this subject coverered by a serious intellectual such as Jordan Peterson. Since childhood I have wished to communicate these things to others but lacked the vocabulary or "shared protocols" to do so

[@WalterPaulKomarnicki]

please consider Sydney and Melbourne on your tour - we need to hear you, too!!

[@beaniegirl55]

That would be awesome.

[@damienlazar6103]

Surely show Perth some love too! 😅

[@venetiansunrise481]

Yes! I am very interested in your upcoming Gospel exploration!!!

[@debranadeau6305]

can't wait for the next seminar! I was thinking maybe Isaiah, but the Gospels, WOW!!😍😍

[@carlosue5472]

I love listening to smart people talk to one another.

[@TimCCambridge]

👍👍 To sail the spiritual seas, the emphasis is not on the skill of the sailor, rather, it is their respect and love of the wind and waves.

[@-KimberlyKay]

Excellent discourse between two honorable gentlemen!

[@howardbethyname]

The last 10-15 mins of this conversation should be heard by every person on earth and our problems will be solved.

[@chessbuddies]

very informative.... love it!!!!

[@OrthodoxRabbiBillClinton]

Really cool to see Jordan dipping his toes in different areas not just the political scene. Congrats on having the #1 rapper in America on 💯

[@KaarinaKimdaly]

Bill Clinton is not an Orthodox Rabbi, you creator of chaos.

[@hexagram531]

Wondrous. Both guys bursting with wisdom and understanding. I thought all that stuff in the universities had to end up going somewhere!

[@joarsolbakk7160]

I like seeing you contemplate some thing while keeping your extensive theoretical framework in mind. Its refreshing with the improvisation. Its a complicated thing to understand how social roles, individual motivation, scientific theory and myths all intersect. I think there is only one thing i want to point out that might be of interest to you: The notion of what is bad and good and how power and truth is connected to this. I think this subject goes deeply into questions of suffering, paradigm shifts, revelations etc, but beyond all of that, i think it is a question of feeling. I respect you alot for how you are able to deliver a more than great framework of this landscape of feeling (and that might be just an implication of your work). Intimate, but scientifically distant. I think to properly get to know this landscape on an "emotional" level we can look to Jung and his discussions surrounding philosphy and what might be considered "anti-intelletualization" - even though thats probably a bad term for referencing the essential in his point of view. I think some of the arguments surrounding dark-triad traits, human nature, ideals, idols, principles and social roles to name a few, can be better understood by a having a firmer grasp on what makes a social interaction evil or good. And maybe that this confusion can be better enlightened through a focus on suffering and consciousness, and the seemingly good or bad resulting from a given interaction (which in my mind doesnt have to reflect any easy categorical capture). My mind strays to buddhism.

[@soumyaray6706]

Wow you nailed it.

[@soumyaray6706]

Wow you nailed it.

[@RustyRaine1]

Best description I have heard so far of how LLM's work!

[@kimberleighdemott44]

I love this. Thank you for this wonderful podcast.

[@davef2143]

Amazing as always. I still feel obligated to recommend Roland Fryer and Lloyd de Jongh as they would be fantastic discussions.

[@aga3004]

Dr Peterson when are you coming to Ghana? God bless you for the great work

[@duds1922]

Sydney Australia is in dire need of Dr. Peterson's wise insights.

[@edwardhorvath2256]

Cringe

[@shawnwright5332]

👍🇨🇦

[@3ZEBRA]

the whole world is, in my opinion

[@GregoryShtevensh]

​@@edwardhorvath2256yep... all of Australia needs some wisdom and leadership, not just Sydney

[@jim-se5xc]

Where's Christopher Hitchens when we need him? His dark humour. With these, im sure, well meaning, sincere, hand wringing, catastrophic bores. If you thank god for anything Jordan, you can thank the good lord Jesus that Hitchens isn't around today, available for an on camera chat. Praise the Lord.

[@andyman3309]

Incredible conversation

[@BamBam-gf2lz]

Great discussion m I can't believe they are going to do a Gospel seminar! That's going to be awesome

[@Mike-gl6bk]

1 minute in. I love your content Dr ! I am very thankful to have role model like you.

[@garrettjones8576]

I love these two. Arguably two of the most important voices of our time. Having said that, sometimes these conversations are so far beyond my capacity to follow. Currently 31 minutes into this conversation and it's a struggle. Lol. I'm trying...

[@zackwalker1721]

Jordan has a tendency to take 6 connecting flights when he could've flown direct. It can be worth something for him to give you all the context and nuance of his thought process if he's lecturing you, but it doesn't lend itself as well to conversation which at least in theory is what this is supposed to be. Even if you can listen to, and understand every one of the 6 connecting flights that he took when he could've gone direct, you can''t address all of them in equal detail, so they just single out 1 of the 6 flights meaning that the other 5 were pointless to the overall conversation.

[@isaacetim6238]

Try listening while do something like cleaning out the garage, or yard work for example, it really becomes enjoyable

[@Handsoffthekids]

Even if you pick up a few things it will be worth the time.

[@zoorenard1101]

​@@zackwalker1721context and nuances are important. I uderstand that its a lot for the common people (im one of them) but hes trying to explain the why of the what. To understand the answer, you need to understand the equation

[@kathym.248]

I have to take little breaks. And that's fine.

[@EdilbertoAriasRolon]

Greetings from Asuncion ,Paraguay

[@rebeccaerb9935]

I enjoyed this discussion! Thankyou very much!

[@KonstantinDimitrov-]

Thank you for the quality content Mr. Peterson and Mr. Shapiro. You talk about things which 95+% of politicians don’t even think about. Take care. Greetings from Bulgaria.

[@XKietseroX]

I love that Jordan’s channel is going along with the “BEN SHAPIRO DESTROYS” joke on the thumbnail, you love to see it lol

[@martinschulze5399]

As a computer scientist specialized in AI and probabilistic machine learning I have to confess that Peterson in one of the few who dont talk arbitary bullshit about what LLMs are but is right on the spot - to our current knowledge -. Now I'm curious if markov chains and other (old) mathematical methods were included in his studies back then or if he were studying such things in his leisure time (before the youtube career)

[@LordRykard9376]

Social Science isn't super invested in Markov chains. It tends to rely on traditional regression or logistic models. I work heavily with AI and and NLP which is very very new to disciplines like Psychology and Sociology. I'm actually looking at using Markov Chains to potentially detect Mimetic conflict but it requires high amounts of relational data with temporality. Hard to come by.

[@JordanBPeterson]

I studied factor analysis which is in some sense a primitive version of AI and supervised a student working on early LLM models

[@martinschulze5399]

​@@JordanBPeterson Really cool! I've seen famous OpenAI people calling LLMs the 'fast thinking' system and now they ponder how to build the slow thinking around it, using Reinforcement learning subsystems or external systems that the LLM can query via attention mechanisms. And while from an engineering perspective this makes a lot of sense, I personally think that is not correct analogy to the real brain. That is why I liked your statement much more to just claim what it is in a formal way and not interpreting more into it as we currently know it is. I'm currently looking into environment representations, self-localization and mapping (Graph SLAM) and to connect that as an asynchronously working system to LLMs to have a continually learning spatially grounded system that resembles a little bit more the brain (Hippocampal place ?). Then the LLM could also use that graph structure to reason over spatial memories and during the reasoning (reinforcement learning or ontology-reasoning algorithms) discover new connections. What I like about this is: I steal tons of ideas from actual neuroscience and apply them in a very, very loose way. Downside: not so much formalism and hard science.

[@LordRykard9376]

@martinschulze5399 incredibly fascinating. Is this a graph-LLM hybrid? I've never heard of it. Is there a particular python library you're using? Thanks for the education!

[@chrys77cross]

Lucky duck. It is a bucket list item of mine for Dr. Peterson to respond to one of my comments!

[@adriankaschel4035]

Man I truly do appreciate both of these gentlemen.

[@shaunjn-baptiste5887]

i would love to see Dr. Jordon Peterson and Dr. Mark Chironna conversation. it would be a interesting and fascinating interview.

[@danielhoven570]

You cannot have legends without Bards

[@aaronlopez492]

Five minutes of Ben and Jordan my IQ feels like it's received a deep tissue massage. Thanks I feel so rejuvenated.

[@edwardhorvath2256]

Cringe

[@reeseseward9003]

@@edwardhorvath2256 Your so triggered your really going to every comment that likes Dr. Peterson and commenting the same thing lol get a life

[@imhim94ivan]

@@reeseseward9003right, what a weirdo

[@reeseseward9003]

@@imhim94ivan I mean really it's so pathetic it's almost hilarious family guy should do a bit about people like @edwardhorvath2256

[@reeseseward9003]

@@imhim94ivan bro this little troll Edward is practically stalking Jordans page he is replying hate from comments 50 minutes ago all the way to 13 minutes ago lol just imagine him hovering over this video right now looking for the next comment to reply hate to lol

[@ExecutiveZombie]

Beautiful conversation 🙏🏽

[@autumnleaves2766]

Excellent discussion, well done gentlemen. I am a fan of Dr Peterson and I also enjoy hearing Ben Shapiro speak too, he is no doubt having a positive effect on the younger generations too. As someone who sadly never had children (I'm in Dr Peterson's generation), it's certainly true to say that life can feel empty and meaningless. I try to counter this by doing creative activity in both music and art, and even some writing in the past too. Creative activity is vitally important and reading Dr Peterson's two 12 Rules For Life books finally made me realise the value of it, even if one can earn little or nothing from it. Thanks for this great discussion.