Heidi Zuckerman: Why Art Matters | Rich Roll Podcast

Rich Roll sits down with museum director and curator Heidi Zuckerman for a conversation about art-what we can learn from it, why it matters & how to democratize it. Plus the future of art, NFTs and the blockchain, decoding Marfa, and more. To read more about Heidi and peruse the full show notes, go here👉🏾bit.ly/richroll696
✌🏼🌱 - Rich
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FILMED AND EDITED BY BLAKE CURTIS, DAN DRAKE & MARGO LUBIN
www.blakecurtis.net/
www.dandrake333.com/
00:00:00 - Intro
00:02:27 - Rich and Heidi’s Long Background Together
00:06:12 - Mutual Friends with Rickey Gates, Hut Run Hut, Artists + Athletes
00:08:09 - Who Practices?
00:12:22 - Rich on Reframing Physical Activity
00:13:22 - Heidi’s Story of How She Got into the Art World
00:18:11 - Entry level exposure, success is grinding, not overnight
00:19:06 - “Writing Our Own History and Stories”
00:22:04 - Creating Impact for Art in Heidi’s Early Career, Conversations with Artists, Legacy
00:27:43 - What’s next after Aspen Museum, Moving to OC
00:33:33 - October 8th 5pm opening for Orange County Museum of Art!
00:36:16 - How Do You Define Art?
00:39:17 - Apathy will kill society, “Why does art matter?”
00:41:11 - Art Communicates
00:44:54 - The Orange County Museum: Museum of 21st century
00:49:37 - Highest order of living is service
00:53:13 - How kids are taught art, School as creativity killer
01:01:36 - Meditation, 1300 days + of consistent practice, rewiring the brain, Ritualism
01:06:21 - Recurring Themes in Conversations with Artists
01:10:23 - “Artists are people who make things for other people”
01:11:45 - Two Questions: “What would I love" and “Why does this matter”
01:13:02 - The Urban landscape is the museum, Merging of art and culture
01:14:50 - Rich reads from Heidi’s book, “What if we asked, what would we love?”
01:16:33 - Prayerful approach to art, How did Heidi get there?
01:19:14 - What sparks interest in an artist?
01:21:07 - “Who’s interesting right now?
01:23:35 - What's Happening in Marfa, TX?
01:30:17 - NFT’s, Artistic intent in the age of content
01:37:06 - Is AI art actually art?
01:40:50 - Lessons from leading and empowering teams
01:44:52 - Heidi’s ambition for the museum, “I want people to feel welcome”
01:46:13 - Artists’ respect for Heidi because of integrity
01:48:41 - “What have you got to lose? Why not try art…”
01:50:17 - Closing Remarks
* * * * *
NEW TO RICH?
Hi I'm Rich Roll. I'm a vegan ultra-endurance athlete, author, podcaster, public speaker & wellness evangelist. But mainly I'm a dad of four. If you want to know more, visit my website or check out these two the NY Times articles:
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[@naturejelisabeth]

Wow! Am 53min in and am SO impressed by the museum being a safe space for people in need!!! So beautiful! 💞💞💞

[@krisap]

ART Matters was on our buttons and T-shirts for patrons of the AGO (ART gallery of Ontario) in Toronto. One day someone grabbed about 50 of them at once! I asked for the reason and they told me that they were having a birthday party for a friend named ART!!!

[@wendygreene9518]

LOVE this episode, so much. I started painting during the pandemic, to help me manage work-related stress. I highly recommend starting something creative. It really does something for your soul.

[@StephenCoorlas]

1:00:50 This is a great take away and certainly feels true. Life is more like a spiral (Corkscrew) than a circle; yes things repeat, but not quite in the same way. And when you do experience things repeatedly, the hope is that you experience them with a slightly elevated sense of wisdom.

[@basketballfan5763]

Put this talk on while I drew my first sketch in so many years....I love 🎨🎭 art

[@tikipaddy]

Great Conversation and enjoyed getting know to Heidi and the conversation about why art matters.

[@nbcareerconsulting9496]

I love this, I've always been a fan of art, regular gallery / expo visitor but very uneducated. I've recently moved from Sydney to a small outback town in Australia and started volunteering for an arts charity with very similar values and perspectives to Heidi. I'm onto her podcast now. Thank you for introducing me to yet another awesome guest. I've lost count how many I found here and follow directly 👌

[@loridacier3539]

That was fantastic. So inspiring. Lovely to hear a woman say what she is great at without apologies. Will listen to this one again and definitely check out Heidi's podcast.

[@TJ-jq9bz]

I’m an artist and an athlete. Run hut run sounds interesting!! I really appreciate this conversation because as an artist, art matters so much to me but I’m so happy it matters to others also. I love how you love art! I love the prayer from your book! We need each other! Thank you so much for sharing about suicide and suicide loss. I lost my son to suicide. Art and nature has been so healing.

[@nommh]

A very empowering and interesting talk. More like this please. As Heidi said: art is a practice and we know that many athletes are learning to improve their performance by spiritual practices. It could bei so much fun to see how artistic practices interact with that.

[@robmcafe]

Great behind the scenes of the art world conversation Rich and Heidi. Love the interweaving lives and stories and ambition.

[@BATgirl57]

Thank you for this conversation! A big fan of RRP without being an ultra athlete, I feel like this topic of art was just for me (and all the other artists out there!) Never heard of Heidi Zuckerman before this and now she’s my hero and inspiration!!!🙏😎✌️

[@AJ_12-09]

Is this podcast about art in general or just painting as art?

[@naturejelisabeth]

Thank you so much for sharing this beautiful, fascinating, inspiring & remembering conversation!! 💜 Don't know were to start, why I am feeling and thinking this way about it, so I'll leave it with this: Yes please, do a No. 2, 3, 4... :)) Best wishes, Beth from Autsria

[@jenniferchristy7198]

Thank you for this episode. I found RR through my vegan journey a few years ago, and I am also an artist and art educator. Needless to say, this episode was especially enjoyable for me. I agree wholeheartedly with Heidi’s perspective on the value of art; and loved listening about all that she has done for the art world; however, I was a little taken aback by her quick judgement of the art teacher in Houston. I’m feeling the need to support him or her here. I’ve taught art for two decades in museums, galleries, my own studio, and public education. My experience in public ed is everywhere from title 1 schools to the extremely affluent. So, back to the Houston art class. What was seen by Heidi was a very small glimpse of a much larger problem with the state of art education in our country. I was not there, but I can guess that this Art teacher had a large group of children, probably not enough help, and a very limited timeframe to get those children through the museum. I’m more than certain that she or he would have loved nothing more than to linger and look, reflect and discuss, but with a smaller group and more help! I’d also like to say that as art educators, we want nothing more than creative freedom with our students and certainly do not want to teach scripted lessons over and over each year. I had to laugh when Heidi mentioned her kids bringing home the same projects each year. She must know that it wasn’t the art teacher’s choice to do that. I now teach in a place where I am given a great amount of autonomy within the program, but I still get questions from parents as to why little sister didn’t get to do that really cute project that older brother got to do. I suppose my point is that if we want art to be taught more creatively, we need more funding, more trust from parents and administrators that we, as educated art instructors know what we are doing, and more volunteer help from the community… people just like Heidi. 😊

[@journeyofaconfusedartist]

This insight will help so much with my next book in the art book series "Journey of a confused artist"

[@yaelgavishstudio]

Great episode, please bring more art and artists on the podcast!

[@sayusayme7729]

Nice surprise today, thank you 🖼 🇨🇦

[@scalesstudio4670]

Thank you for sharing

[@zerinhaque4127]

I love the conversation ❤️ But there was just a lottttt of "You Know" in her speech.

[@enVee539]

@zerinhaque4127.....I agree: two hours of "you know" (woman) and lots of "like" (man).... mostly boring conjecture with a few thoughtful insights. "Cultural consciousness"? Hmmm......definitely not working class!

[@lauvra]

I'd love to buy this book in Australia, will that be an option eventually x great great conversation

[@directionofease]

1:06:35 “Flow state…” 🙏🏻

[@ellensteadman7742]

thank you ... now i have a way to describe Chinese Buddhist poetry ... it extraordinarily describes the inexplicable ... art that is more then art

[@longbow4856]

Dark isle Piper:She Moved Through Fair: Bagpipe #SlowAirSunday☘️🌸

[@dailydoseofmedicinee]

💓

[@1lucky13]

I’d like to suggest Ana Teresa Fernandez for The Run Hut Run project, she is an incredible artist and athlete practicing in San Francisco

[@paulahilliard1201]

❤❤❤❤

[@newcreation7084]

A bold statement about what art 🖼️ is . I do not agree in a way because there is a difference between a real concept and just saying is art ( where is the consistency?)we are all creative but not all artists

[@jennifertaylor2780]

Not a bad interview… I did feel like he was always on the edge of saying “so.. about your sister Laura.. is that thing with her husband serious? Should I call her”

[@DJSTOEK]

💘

[@3ATGL]

Thom Mayne of Morphosis, producer of some much hated structures.

[@anthonylopez9594]

how they about to let that static do that woman's hair like this hahaha.

[@r3z0lv]

If the person who made it says it's art it's art. Fast forward, everyone that can type is making "art" with text to AI generated images. Good job society, keep lowering those standards, let's make breathing an accomplishment.

[@mango850]

This is a lot of bromance for the first 36 minutes (on video, it's about 45 minutes on audio). Rather long for Rich Roll who usually generates biographical awareness 20-30 minutes. Skip to that 36mins to hear more of the real subject matter, "why art is..."

[@santafeangel6490]

La Dee da… zzzzzzzz

[@lolizorz]

Why does your podcast feel like it's targeted towards rich people?

[@linjicakonikon7666]

It does have an NPR reek to it doesn't it?

[@robmcafe]

I guess cos they're all Rich's people.

[@amartinakis]

This definition of art has issues, it does not really define what art is. She says that anyone who calls it art it is art and it is about intention, then she says that AI art is not art although people who do AI art say it is art with intention to do art.

[@bridgetblair9034]

Check out George Dickie's theory of institutionalised art

[@linjicakonikon7666]

When I hear two grown people? committing Upspeak?, I immediately turn them off?. Gone? Out of here?.

[@shanarahejones7770]

I have watched your podcast for years. This is the worst interview you have ever had, This women speaks in circles and with attorney language that is the what the common person will not understand. I would invite you to re listen to this interview and how she circumvents every question with highly educated word salad. Horrible. Horrible. PS: I am from Southern California and I am well aware of the different exhibits, she just lucked out to end up where she is. I would if I had a vote never have placed her there, she had no sense of different cultures and is completely whit privilege. She did not grow up as I did.