The Great Ache That Binds Us: Susan Cain On The Power of Bittersweetness | Rich Roll Podcast

NYT bestselling author + TED superstar Susan Cain joins Rich to talk about her new book ‘Bittersweet’-and why embracing this feeling paves a path to creativity, connection, & transcendence. To read more about Susan and peruse the full show notes, go here👉🏾bit.ly/richroll699
✌🏼🌱 - Rich
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FILMED AND EDITED BY BLAKE CURTIS & DAN DRAKE
www.blakecurtis.net/
www.dandrake333.com/
00:00:00 - Intro
00:02:25 - Rich's Recent Speaking Gig Felt Unnatural
00:06:18 - Defining Introversion
00:11:25 - Bittersweetness & How It Relates to Sensitivity
00:14:08 - We Don't Celebrate Introverts
00:16:54 - How Do Introverts Work Best?
00:20:58 - The Pandemic's Effect on Introverts vs. Extroverts
00:23:14 - How Disruption and Loss during covid affected Susan personally
00:25:22 - Bittersweetness & Depression Often Mistakenly Get Associated
00:31:32 - Darwin's Personality, Survival of the Kindest, and the Vagus Nerve
00:34:46 - Defining Bittersweetness
00:37:16 - Relating Bittersweetness to the Odyssey and religion
00:40:03 - The question of “Why sad music” led Susan down this path
00:42:27 - Our Options of Response to Pain
00:45:34 - Ad Break
00:47:25 - Back to Show
00:49:22 - How did we get here, Susan? Calvinism.
00:53:28 - The Tendency to Distance Ourselves from Difficult Life Circumstances
00:57:36 - Longevity and Immortality Effects on Psychology
01:04:18 - Bittersweetness in light of Spirituality
01:06:28 - Responding to her own research as an Agnostic
01:13:46 - Can you train your sensitivity to bittersweetness?
01:17:00 - Revisiting Susan’s relationship with her mom
01:28:07 - The Pursuit of Happiness
01:29:56 - Grappling with Deep Questions In a Separation of Church and State world
01:32:57 - Beethoven Story
01:36:12 - Rich on Our Divided World
01:38:52 - Rich on Storytelling
01:40:40 - What's Next for Susan?
01:41:00 - What one thing do you want people to get out of ‘Bitter Sweet’?
01:42:11 - Advice about introverts… As a parent?
01:45:50 - When an Introvert gets promoted into a position that requires extroversion
01:50:28 - Why does Rich structure his day the way he does?
01:53:06 - Closing Remarks
* * * * *
NEW TO RICH?
Hi I'm Rich Roll. I'm a vegan ultra-endurance athlete, author, podcaster, public speaker & wellness evangelist. But mainly I'm a dad of four. If you want to know more, visit my website or check out these two the NY Times articles:
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[@suesbent]

“There’s a feeling I get when I look to the west and my spirit is crying for leaving.” ~ Led Zeppelin

[@tamgsmith8077]

Nice!! Hadn't thought of that lyric in a long while.

[@calista1280]

Me too, so I headed West!

[@myrnaalexander2090]

I just love Rich Roll’s open honesty and humility- he is so beautifully human! Love his podcasts!

[@kate60]

Excellent. Introverts are exhausted by the pressure to conform. Be free.

[@jesse3105]

I was a super sensitive kid and definitely an introvert who felt a lot. Now over time all those sensitivities have been blunted and there's an emptiness where those things used to be. I'd like to reconnect with those things because I think I somehow over corrected and am missing a lot of beauty of life. Thanks for reading, looking forward to the cast.

[@tamgsmith8077]

Incredibly self aware statement. You will reconnect with those aspects. As a matter of fact you already have.

[@analogkid4957]

That is the essence of inner child work and Re parenting- re - connecting with that little sensitive boy inside you❤️

[@jamiethrogmorton2540]

As yet another former lawyer who left that world (extremely depressed), seeking healing, this really spoke to me. How nice to have a guide like Susan today, whereas I had to forge my own path 25 years ago. She highlights deep human instincts that truly can enrich us if we tune in. 🙏🏽☺️

[@kkpaine]

Nice comment.

[@1kontrabida]

Rich this topic is not just timely but not spoken often but thought off a lot. Thank you for bring this to light and having Susan Cane to shine light into something as dark of a topic/thought. More people should watch and learn from. Amazing

[@bonniemullen4990]

Bitter Sweet is a excellent topic, thank you for the understanding of this , it's so very helpful in interacting with such ones , thank you Susan Cane and Richie Roll👍😌

[@jahidulislamshohan8779]

@@bonniemullen4990 LP p

[@juliasmithe]

So great to have someone voice what I feel. Also, I’m sorry about the loss of your loved ones. I lost my brother to COVID and my being is forever changed.

[@Mookiethedog]

As an introvert this speaks so well to me

[@Fillup82]

Susan just gets it.

[@brookie_cuqui]

"A dusting of sadness." Damn, Rich, that's beautiful. You're a gift to the world. I scored a 9.6 on this quiz. This woman is enlightened. Also, her voice is similar to Lisa Kudrow's. "The answer is in the yearning itself." What a powerful story with her mom. I'm glad you were able to live in that loving space with your mom again. And, hey, Dancing with the Stars is art, it's dance.

[@thedirectorsmom]

Yes! Her voice and cadence are exactly like Lisa Kudrow. If I only heard the voice with no video, I don’t think I could tell who it was. Quiet is one of my top 10 books. Loved Bittersweet and now reading Quiet Power, as I am a K-5 reading tutor.

[@kalena26]

Totally Lisa Kudrow. How funny!@@thedirectorsmom

[@IndigoFlaming]

Susan spoke of the evocative quality of Leonard Cohen's music. In Zen Buddhism, he found a welcoming space for stillness, quiet, and appreciation of the bittersweet nature of existence.

[@annettestevens2260]

Loved this interview. Seems that now is a time in which hearts that can ache are doing an emotional equivalent of an Ultra. Making some meaning out of that experience is a salve.

[@MelodyProsser]

This topic is so me. It spoke to me right away. When I first pressed play, the song I'm Only Happy When it Rains by Garbage went through my mind. LOL. I've always wondered why I was so attracted to songs in minor keys.

[@williamkelly1519]

She is clear with her message. Excellent.

[@barbcarbon9440]

I love the warmth and tenderness that this woman brings. She reminds me that this bittersweetness is such a huge part of who I am and her words give me permission to love and accept that part of myself. Thank you for having her on.

[@katababinszki8883]

I was soooo hoping for a very long time that this interview will manifest between you two. Susan literally changed my life with Quiet and put me on the path where I found Rich - and also the amazing Julie. Recognizing, embracing and leaning into my sensitiveness and introversion lead me to tune into my body, finding joy moving it, declining on numbing the pain of pleasing others to the detriment of my being has bought me so much peace and joy. Now I am on my way to to find how I could turn my pain into a creative offering while I feel immense gratitude of seeing these two human beings in one room, going with their magical flows of exchanging beautiful thoughts. Thanks so much you made my day and will stay with me as I am searching for my path.

[@Rosh_UK]

Really impacted by the book Quiet a few years ago I took time to watch this. I knew I'd have to split it down in to chunks as there'd be enough depth in 10/20 minutes for me to process for a day! Got to the end and really enjoyed it. Found myself rewinding at the end again and again! Thank you 🙏

[@heatherorr3478]

This episode brought me joy and reignited my flame for the search for awe! Thank you both 😍 I will be getting my copy of Bittersweet.

[@janetkarfonta6034]

Just what I need today, fell down the rabbit hole this weekend. Past Trauma wanted out. Allowing myself to feel the pain.

[@robtleroux]

“Happiness cannot be traveled to, owned, earned, worn or consumed. Happiness is the spiritual experience of living every minute with love, grace, and gratitude. “ ~ Denis Waitley

[@TenTenJ]

One of the most ancient sad instruments is the Armenian Duduk. It was introduced into the film industry about 15 to 20 years ago because of its unique ability to articulate bitter sweetness and longing. Armenian culture, which dates back about 5,000 years, embraces this emotion completely, with most of her music and poetry distinctively in this vein. No Armenian finds this depressing, but uplifting and soothing, as ironic as it sounds. Rather, it is like putting a balm on a wound. I would add that depressed emotions lack inner vibration, whereas embracing bittersweet emotions possesses no resistance, but are welcome. Thank you for a fabulous guest and episode. I will end my comment with the following in Armenian:

[@TenTenJ]

Ապրիս Ռիչ Ռօլլ, ձեր շնորհանդեսները անզուգական են:

[@abipray]

Thanks for bringing her

[@casslarkin4567]

Another great one! What a beautiful human Susan Cain is! Thanks, RRP!!

[@bretstevens262]

Love Susan! Great podcast RRP! Thank you for the another hitting home podcast!

[@amberfahr6680]

Sometimes its only when there is a sad song that I can cry at all

[@anthonyfox477]

Truly amazing guest and conversation. "Quiet" has been sitting in a pile of books on my nightstand for at least a year. Time to dust it off and dive in.

[@vanhoudtshoorn]

Thank you for this beautiful conversation❤

[@msinbalony]

I am 47 now. When I was in my young teens I read one of Milan Kundra's books, where he desribed a feeling of sweet sadness and longing and called her Litost. It is a made up word.. or maybe a word in Czech, his language.. I don't remember. But it stuck with me, and I have never forgotten that it. It describes such a distinct feeling that we all know, but don't have a word for. Till this day I call it Litost.

[@isabellegagnon8042]

Great podcast!! As an introvert who gets to go out to play and serve, and comes back to the comfort of her cocoon at the end of the day to re-charge, I so relate. The subject of bitter -sweet and it’s actual meaning was new to me. Super interesting: I can relate to that carácter strength as well…a valuable one to develop. Thank you!! ☀️

[@nigelbanksart]

Goodness - such a beautiful exchange - thankyou for the goosebumps

[@bohemianqueen_]

I love these types of episodes

[@gabrielapirvu5178]

Rich Roll has class and offers deep insight into various topics. Love his podcast.

[@mandymaciver8948]

Thank you both. This was beautiful.

[@KrisG66]

Susan, you are such a kind, interesting person! Great podcast!

[@OlaoluMMatem]

Susan Cain's voice is so soothing!!

[@ArbitraryLifestyle]

It was really nice hearing someone who continues talking while they're making a point rather than stopping as rich begins to talk over them.

[@Stu_DLNGR]

Toby Morse sent me. That one you were on, RR, was a great podcast! THIS one is amazing!!! Every word she has said in these first 10 min are SPOT ON, in my case. I cant wait to hear the rest. Much love, yall. Peace

[@sarahtoth391]

" I see the world as bittersweet all the time." Wow, never heard anyone put those words to how I feel. Such a great listen.

[@shooshoojoon4]

Apart from appreciation of the puristic, elegant visual presentation of this show, I felt a full on participant in most areas you covered at a visceral level. Finally, that sense, beyond words, that we feel when touched deeply by music, nature, a face...is the "Oneness" we long for in our illusion of being separat. Thank you!

[@sunflower-oo1ff]

Wow …what an interesting podcast Rich ! And man.. you looked so relax and the shirt👍 thank u for all the hard work u do, you’re awesome 🕊

[@sameoldsteph]

Awesome podcast. I’ve always had a bittersweet outlook and I’m both highly sensitive and introverted. I wish I’d had my current level of self awareness years ago. I’m so tired of being called depressed! (Edited to add: A lot of highly sensitive people were born on your birthday, Susan Cain…myself included!)

[@vivdoolan6846]

I really understand Susan's loss in regard to her mother, the pain of it has no words to describe it. It's like the core of who you are, your early heart and everything that your heart has become since is shattered.

[@observer5864]

Yep.. an open floor office is truly punishment for introverts 🙂

[@shartmann2008]

QUIET is my favorite book of all time. I felt seen for the first time. YAY!!! WFH forever. Can't wait to read the new one!

[@salmanisrar3772]

Love this episode. HPS and introvert here. 💛

[@lars8027]

Even when Rich Roll clears his throat, I listen.

[@mauiswift6391]

Great podcast!

[@TheChestnutBranch]

The story about Beethoven brought me to tears 😭 I had never heard that before.

[@bobbyulili]

sometimes a podcast is more than a podcast

[@erindettweiler3745]

this is so great... and also so cool that i just pulled Quiet out of my neighborhood mini free library a couple days ago!

[@jhj6636]

Thank you, Susan Cain, for this very special insight. I was drawn to your work through my faith, an interest in icons, and the Greek χαρμολύπη which may be translated as 'bright-sadness'. My interest in psychology and emotions (including Plutchik's dyads and wheel of emotions) also led to bittersweet. I have ordered a copy of your book!

[@radfoo72]

I like her voice. She sounds like Lisa Kudrow.

[@markkennedy9767]

I always wonder about the adaptiveness of melancholy and sadness. I used to be on antidepressants and always thought sadness needed to be dealt with. But I'm now wondering how those feelings can be used and "mined" to reach greater meaning and connection as described here. Still working through this at the moment.

[@horseradishdude]

"Whatever pain you can't get rid of, make that your creative offering" - Susan Cain.....Whoa.

[@davidhogg1216]

Rose of God, like a blush of rapture on Eternity’s face, Rose of Love, ruby depth of all being, fire-passion of Grace! Arise from the heart of the yearning that sobs in Nature’s abyss: Make earth the home of the Wonderful and life beatitude’s kiss.

[@radoslavkristin9830]

Rich, I have recently heard Shawn Baker talking about your back issues.. I would highly recommend Egoscue method and obviously myofascial release - Becoming a supple leopard is great book for that 👍

[@wideorbits7103]

Awesome

[@Roger-tv7sf]

Very nice 🙂

[@jocelynoslear1578]

What is it to have Compassion It is to have Passion for All Things and has its Root Meaning in Sorrow

[@ritazita1111]

This woman's 'bittersweet' philosophy reminds me of one of your previous guests, Dr. Anna Lembke's sensibility. Sounds like neither of them expect life to be easy. Nor do I.

[@amberfahr6680]

Where can i find this quiz for bittersweet?

[@radfoo72]

That's a giant table for a 2 person podcast😆

[@BradsMadskills]

"I wish I was... Whoa ... A wild-West hero..."

[@tinabaker6336]

Which hallelujah rendition did they refer to?

[@thedirectorsmom]

My notes: 8.22.2022 Rich Roll interviews Susan Cain m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/aaLFmIekrbdofaM 2 covers of Hallelujah 1. Jeff Buckley m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2mkiHmcbKp0mZY OR kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2mkiHmcbKp0mZY 2. Rufus Wainwright kzbin.info/www/bejne/goKuZYycnrWdZ7M

[@stretch1807]

The sadness she speaks of is the birth pangs of remembrance which preface the transformation of the former stage of life to the next. If you know, you know

[@analogkid4957]

The yearning for the Divine whence we all come from

[@GoldandPinkLight]

Maya Rudolf doppelganger!

[@vanhoudtshoorn]

Live then the days of thy life, that are less than a fleeting moment, with thy mind stainless, thy heart unsullied, thy thoughts pure, and thy nature sanctified, so that, free and content, thou mayest put away this mortal frame, and repair unto the mystic paradise and abide in the eternal kingdom for evermore. Bahá’u’lláh, The Persian Hidden Words, 44

[@jocelynoslear1578]

Do not disturb me, I am playing. With Death What is Compassion… to have Passion for All things and it has its Root Meaning in Suffering

[@vanhoudtshoorn]

The world beyond, writes Bahá’u’lláh, “is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother.”[4] Just as the womb provides the environment for a person’s initial physical development, the phenomenal world is the arena within which we develop the spiritual characteristics and capacities that we need for our onward journey. Both here and in the next life, we advance with the assistance of God’s bounty and grace. Also important to the progress of our souls in the next world are the good deeds carried out in our names here on earth, and the sincere prayers of our families and friends. Baha,'i Faith

[@Mimulus2717]

What a beautiful, touching and thoughtful conversation. these are the topics I love hearing about, I guess because I scored a 7.6 on the quiz. Great guest Rich, and you where such a responsive host who deeply listened. will share this with all my introverted melancholic friends. Off to listen to my favorite bittersweet song by Radiohead : kzbin.info/www/bejne/poqrdqN6o9uJhs0.

[@jsavannah123]

interview fulll rae kristina

[@stretch1807]

But you cannot fall in love with your sadness lest you become a siren.

[@vingtcent3343]

you're talking about highly sensitive people and still, without ever considering, loudly clear your throat directly into your microphone multiple times. implementing a mute switch for guest and presenter will cost you maybe 100$ , or for goodness sake, just turn away from the microphone which is a highly narrowly focused one anyway. Joe Rogan manages to do that, you can, too. the majority of people listening do so with headphones, please try to be considerate

[@luxsikasenthilkumaran9310]

sad muci makes me hopeful

[@dr.samierasadoonalhassani2669]

Thank you, medically the epigenetic( environmental variables that express good or bad genes .Bublic speaking Is skill like surgical skills , more if you start from childhood,confidence, respect,from parents and family.Medicine is life long , full time job, no time for family life , the more famous involved doctor,doing medicine is hard. And unhealthy , to solve problems all day long . All is environment , brain at birth is undeveloped, complete development at 25 years old by pruning extra neurones& new reactions to environment. Mylenation of axons continue till 70 years old It is interesting how lay people ( not Specilist medical doctors) thinks. Always ask why this behave like this? All is the brain,mind which means all the body by giving signals both ways , human body cells and nervous system . It is all neurotransmitters, electrical signals, biolog, biochemistry, physics,quantum biology. Thank you , but feel better these subjects to be dealt by neuroscientist in behaviours and PsychiTrists who have long clinical experience , physiologists. Thank you, For my medical brain ( a-scientist brain ) is not really explain the topic. Stopped listening after 20 minutes, sorry for my feedback , with due respect , this better understood by philosophers and doctors. God bless you .

[@vanhoudtshoorn]

AN EVER-ADVANCING CIVILIZATION INTRODUCTION Humanity, the Bahá’í writings explain, has passed through the stage of childhood and now stands at the threshold of its collective maturity. The revolutionary and far-reaching changes occurring today are characteristic of this period of transition-a time which can be likened to adolescence. In this period, thoughts, attitudes, and habits from humanity’s earlier stages of development are being swept away and new patterns of thought and action which reflect its approaching maturity are gradually taking root. ‘Abdu’l-Bahá explains: “That which was applicable to human needs during the early history of the race can neither meet nor satisfy the demands of this day, this period of newness and consummation.” He continues: “Man must now become imbued with new virtues and powers, new moral standards, new capacities…The gifts and blessings of the period of youth, although timely and sufficient during the adolescence of mankind, are now incapable of meeting the requirements of its maturity.” The hallmark of this approaching age of maturity is the unification of the human race. Shoghi Effendi writes that, while unity “of family, of tribe, of city-state, and nation have been successively attempted and fully established” world-encompassing unity is “the goal towards which a harassed humanity is striving.” In another passage, he refers to “the inauguration of a world civilization such as no mortal eye hath ever beheld or human mind conceived.” He asks: “Who is it that can imagine the lofty standard which such a civilization, as it unfolds itself, is destined to attain? Who can measure the heights to which human intelligence, liberated from its shackles, will soar? Who can visualize the realms which the human spirit, vitalized by the outpouring light of Bahá’u’lláh, shining in the plenitude of its glory, will discover?” The emergence of a global civilization prosperous in both its material and spiritual dimensions implies that the spiritual and practical aspects of life are to advance together. Through faith and reason, it becomes possible to discover the powers and capacities latent in individuals and in humanity as a whole, and to work for the realization of these potentialities. Recognition of the fundamental harmony of science and religion also allows for the generation, application, and diffusion of spiritual and material knowledge among all the world’s inhabitants. The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established.BAHÁ’U’LLÁH

[@kate60]

God created the heaven and the earth. Christ Crucified for your sin is the only way to God. We are eternal beings. We are not our own. There is an end to all of life.

[@NoExitLoveNow]

Not even a good story.

[@kate60]

@@NoExitLoveNow What story? Truth says we all die and are going to face judgement. To deny that you did not create yourself or can keep yourself alive is dishonest. Nothing by chance. There is a Creator to all creation. This isn't home.

[@NoExitLoveNow]

@@kate60 You are a weirdo.

[@Jmamelia]

Your beliefs. Not truth or relevant to all.

[@kate60]

@@Jmamelia So sad that you don't see that you didn't create yourself or can you keep yourself alive. Who created such beautiful things that we enjoy? Nothing by chance.