Hell and Religious Trauma - Mark Gregory Karris

Mark G Karris, author of "The Diabolical Trinity," describes some of the trauma that the teaching of eternal torment can inflict on people.
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[@williama.hovestreydt6623]

I'm 60 years old and still recovering from spiritual abuse...was intentional but I was a child that believed as Mark did. ECT was taught from my first day out of the womb...My daddy was my pastor as well.

[@christinamcbride9389]

Thanks for sharing. I can relate. I was taught this doctrine at 4. I've dealt with ptsd my entire life. I feel like I lost my life

[@InfoAddict26]

I’m 19 and I feel similar to yourself. Although I’m not completely convinced of universalism because I like to have breathing room for nuance (just in case I’m wrong or right about something) but I have to be honest. I don’t think I could be a Christian if ECT is true. There’s something deeply sadistic and wrong about this take. Reminds me more of Allah than Yahweh

[@michaelnelson1270]

The God who is love will not consign the majority of his children to eternal conscious torment. This I believe. Here I stand, I can do no other.

[@michaelnelson1270]

That said, my heart goes out to those who have been traumatized, which includes me.

[@bradvincent2586]

Amen. I just said the same thing to God today. I am awaiting confirmation for full freedom.

[@williamfinch9858]

"You have rejected it and judged yourselves unworthy of eternal life."

[@bradvincent2586]

@@williamfinch9858 what?

[@michaelnelson1270]

@@williamfinch9858 The quote needs context (and attribution). Exactly what have I rejected? Without context "it" has no meaning in this sentence.

[@melisasanchez177]

Such a genuine sharing. Thank you for speaking the story that so many us of experience. You shared so beautifully and gave me hope for healing. I want to know God without the fear. What you said really resonated with my experiences.

[@goblintown]

If I had no choice but to be damned in Adam, how do I have a choice to be made alive in Christ? Adam gets 100% of humanity but the Lord Jesus Christ only gets 2-5%?

[@benindahl9233]

Right bro, it doesn’t make sense! But it takes a willingness to look at it, and the religious mind doesn’t want to

[@scottellis7024]

Because obviously Adam > Jesus… wait, no. That can’t be it. Shoot.

[@byzantinedeacon]

All "die" in Adam. There is no damnation in Romans 5:12. This has been the historical error of the western churches to assume such things. The verse is talking about death and resurrection. It's not talking about people going to heaven or hell. It's talking about a humanity that dies that now will be resurrected.

[@thanevakarian9762]

@@byzantinedeaconRoman’s 5 seems to be talking about sin as well and sin is the thing that warrants Gods wrath no? Romans 5:18-19 (ESV): 18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 Seems like more than just man’s mortality is being addressed here.

[@jhq9064]

​@@byzantinedeaconRomans 11:32-36

[@brotherbroseph1416]

The doctrine has never made true sense to me. I grew up Baptist and the depictions of hellfire I used to get just tore my little psyche apart. I’ve never been able to be at peace when it comes to this. So I try to not believe it. I try to believe that Christ defeated hell and any “fire” I may go through is purgative and metaphorical. If there are Christians in the chat, please pray for me. Patrick

[@stephengorman1025]

I believe the Spirit is revealing the true nature of God's love to beliver's across the globe. I will pray that the reality of His love for you will become embedded in who you truly are. Grace and Peace.

[@JoBo301]

You are not the only one - the fact you have been traumatised by hell shows that you are a normal, sensitive, caring person. Who wouldn't be outraged by such a doctrine?

[@brotherbroseph1416]

@@JoBo301 it is insane.

[@JoBo301]

@@brotherbroseph1416 It is probably the greatest thing in the world that stops people from coming to God

[@georgemooyman7155]

I have also recently left the ind Baptists. I now believe the salvation of all after coming first to understand that thd KJB isn't the perfect preserved word of God. I am still silent about my beliefs with my old Christian friends as I can't handle the negative effects that come from them. May the Lord strengthen each of us to understand and be bold in our convictions.

[@bluegreenOD]

The reality of neural networks / neural formations is underestimated. I sincerely appreciate how Mark how ideas and conversations can trigger the ‘old’ networks

[@warrenroby6907]

This is a great presentation. As a licensed counselor I can vouch for the therapeutic content.

[@jonnyw82]

ECT brainwashing has literally ruined my life. I was a very thoughtful and sensitive child and after I was taught about it my life was never the same.

[@bcburt2000]

That saddens me. Even though you are not the same as you were being that sensitive and thoughtful child, I hope you have found some ways to recover pieces of that childlike heart.

[@JoBo301]

I needed to hear this today - thank you for posting

[@glennrobinson7193]

The only hell is the false teaching of hell

[@user-my5ze3dm2s]

Don’t go to a Rabbi. They teach much religious bondage if they do not know Christ. The Bible brings life. Don’t put it down because the Spirit can comfort you. Ignore the incorrect teachings of God’s love. There is inherited sin through Adam’s race. The original was passed on. That’s why we need Christ Jesus and he reconciled the world to himself. That is the reality that we are loved by God. I did have a slight breakdown from an incorrect teaching of hell until Christian Universalism became clear years later.

[@billcanonico6657]

thanks for this good message. i believe we need to hear this over and over, from different people, as often as possible. one of my first thoughts questioning ect came many years ago, and led to many other helpful thoughts. it just seemed odd to me that God would say "i love you i love you i love you" right up to the moment our earthly lives end. then, one instant later, say "i hate you i hate you i hate you", and inflict horrendous torture on us forever.

[@bradvincent2586]

Well said.

[@georgemooyman7155]

Good advice given.

[@bradvincent2586]

Thank you 🙏 seriously. Thank you.

[@anthonymccarthy4164]

I wonder if what Jesus said, "Judge not and you will not be judged," might not mean that the only people who'll go to hell are those who delight in other people going to hell. Maybe for slandering God and driving People away from religion.

[@williama.hovestreydt6623]

If you a great therapist in central Florida let me know...

[@WaldorfStatler]

Nobody who literally believes that hell-crap can love God whatever they say. They are just scared out and trying to please that sadistic god of theirs when parroting ”I love you mighty God”. I know by experience that ”whatever you beg for in my name you will get” are simply not true. Tried for decades force myself to believe ”the right way”, until my mind was totally drained from hope,joy and faith. Struggled with borderline and depressions all my 63 years and there was never ”Gods peace” for me.

[@TheBlueCream]

the only way out is Christian Universalism

[@stephengorman1025]

Whilst I don't agree that the disciples were vegetarian at the creation man was created to be vegetarian (possibly vegan). Only after the flood was Mankind instructed to eat meat. For this reason Jesus may have been vegan. Even though he provided fish we are not told he ate it. The truth is we don't know for certain.

[@TheBlueCream]

'infernalists' misinterpret Jesus words..study 'aionios' in the Greek mistranslated as 'everlasting/ eternal in Mt 25 vs 46 and how it relates to 'olam' ...'aionios' appears 100s of times in the LXX where it cant mean eternal ( ie all the statues regarding the Mosaic Covenant are said to be eternal/ everlasting yet they have been done away with like circumciosion )and Matthew was very familiar with the LXX, he quotes from it many times ..Jesus Himself quoted from the LXX and He knew 'aionios' more often than not doesn't mean everlasting

[@theguyver4934]

Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )

[@anthonymccarthy4164]

I'm a five year long vegan after a half a century of being a vegetarian but, considering several of the Apostles were fishermen, Jesus served multitudes bread and fish and Jesus is documented as eating broiled fish and the traditional Passover meal of lamb that recent movie is nonsense. Today I'd say that veganism is the moral ideal in terms of diet on the basis of kindness to animals and the environment, that's not what the record shows. Much as I wish Scripture did say that, it simply doesn't.

[@wildrover9650]

Crack head.😮

[@glennrobinson7193]

What a joke that Jesus and his disciples were vegetarians. Upon reading this the story of Jesus feeding the 5,000 men with five loaves and fishes, and when Jesus after his resurrection cooked fish for his disciples. Fish is not a vegetable if you don't know that.

[@fireandforge]

The biggest problem is no one has used scripture to prove all this. All I hear is someones opinion on the matter. Give scripture and more will believe.

[@emersonb.5399]

No one? There are innumerable videos, books, and websites that lay out a biblical argument for Christian Universalism.

[@fireandforge]

@@emersonb.5399 yup. All for greedy lucre.

[@emersonb.5399]

⁠​⁠@@fireandforgeThere’s nothing wrong with being compensated for one’s time and effort.

[@fireandforge]

@@emersonb.5399 your effort? Everything you are and have is from God. His Servants can be paid but His Word is not to be sold.

[@emersonb.5399]

⁠@@fireandforgeSo no one should be paid for teaching on Christianity or the Bible? Even if they put years of work into writing a book you’re entitled to read it for free?

[@williamoarlock8634]

Hell isn't real as god and heaven aren't real. End of your 'religious trauma'.

[@patrickkircher145]

Hell is real, and it's infinitely worse than anyone has ever described it

[@bradvincent2586]

You can get out of here with that Pharisee energy

[@patrickkircher145]

@@bradvincent2586 I truly can't understand how so many Christians can deny the words of Christ himself

[@bradvincent2586]

@@patrickkircher145 Hang with me and see if you can make it through this whole comment. Try to read slowly. Google is your friend: “The Meaning of Aionios. The Greek words aion and aionios, and the Hebrew equivalent olam, mean “age” and refer to a specific aeon, epoch or season. Although translated “eternal” and “everlasting”, they simply do not mean forever and ever.” I truly don’t know how you believe in an eternal torture chamber and are capable of functioning. How do you work? How do you say hello to a stranger without screaming at them about their eternal fate? Aren’t you in the fetal position crying and praying and fasting for hours and weeks and months? No? Just me? Do you believe the words of Jesus when he says to go heal the sick? Have you gone and healed the sick? (And don’t say that was only for the disciples, he told them to go make disciples of all nations and gave unlimited promises for healing). Or are you not good at healing people, just being a Pharisee on eternal hell? Do you believe the words of Jesus when he says “I will draw all men into myself”? Sir. I hear you. I respect you for clinging strong to the literal English words in your English Bible. But Jesus is the Word. Logos is the word. Eternal hell is literally as opposite to love and logos as anything possibly could be. Go watch some Dan Mohler for a few hundred hours… then come back and watch some Andrew Hronich.

[@TheBlueCream]

​@@patrickkircher145 you are misinterpreting His words..study 'aionios' in the Greek mistranslated as 'everlasting/ eternal in Mt 25 vs 46 and how it relates to 'olam' ...'aionios' appears 100s of times in the LXX where it cant mean eternal ( ie all the statues regarding the Mosaic Covenant are said to be eternal/ everlasting yet they have been done away with like circumciosion )and Matthew was very familiar with the LXX, he quotes from it many times ..Jesus Himself quoted from the LXX and He knew 'aionios' more often than not doesn't mean everlasting

[@Jon-bk2yw]

​@@TheBlueCream thank you for sharing hope with us, believing that I was damned to ECT doctrine ruined my life and caused harm to people around me

[@stephengorman1025]

Whilst I don't agree that the disciples were vegetarian at the creation man was created to be vegetarian (possibly vegan). Only after the flood was Mankind instructed to eat meat. For this reason Jesus may have been vegan. Even though he provided fish we are not told he ate it. The truth is we don't know for certain.

[@bradvincent2586]

I went vegan 3 months ago. Similar to the eternal hell thing, it just got too disturbing to participate in horrific animal torture. I am wrestling both of these topics out with God and awaiting confirmation. Peace to all who may read this ❤

[@stephengorman1025]

Whilst I don't agree that the disciples were vegetarian at the creation man was created to be vegetarian (possibly vegan). Only after the flood was Mankind instructed to eat meat. For this reason Jesus may have been vegan. Even though he provided fish we are not told he ate it. The truth is we don't know for certain.

[@apostolateoftheear3719]

“While they were still incredulous for joy and were amazed, he asked them, “Have you anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of baked fish; he took it and ate it in front of them.” - Luke 24: 41 - 43

[@stephengorman1025]

Good point, post resurrection the Lord obviously ate fish. Thanks for that.

[@apostolateoftheear3719]

@@stephengorman1025 Sure thing. Do you think there is significance to it being post resurrection? I’m not sure if there are any pre-resurrection accounts. I’ve not looked into the question at all.