Helluva Boss - The Ever Conflicting Series

[@Mangakamen]

BTW, yes, I have seen the new episode - I just haven't had a chance to talk about it... I'm kinda messed up right now. And I literally didn't have time to work it in.

[@capt.artemislivius7601]

I get it's called "Helluva Boss" but like can we at least focus more on the characters that actually need characterizing instead of homoerotic Stolitz scene number 5697? PLEASE!!??

[@jacalynnepuder1172]

Good thing I decided to hop into the comments on this video, also hope you're resting well/working on recovering, it sucks to be sick

[@capt.artemislivius7601]

Also, another issue. If this really is Hell, WHY ARE THERE GANGS AND COPS!? Heck, in the latest episode it's kind of a deal that Asmodeus is labelled a "hypocrite", but WHY!? It's Hell!!! Why should it even matter in the first place to be a plot point!? You could cut it out and miss NOTHING. As a matter of fact, why are there even "fair" rules in a place that supposedly is all about eternal suffering!? What's the difference between Paradise for Sinners and Punishment for them if the only suffering we see is the friggin drama!?!?!?

[@Tinker-13]

Get some rest Kamen. Sounds like you really need it.

[@staringgasmask]

@@capt.artemislivius7601 in theory, sinners are all in the upper layer of hell and will be explored in HH, while imps and these demons are hellborn. Still not much punishment and torture if you can still put a hit on people from the afterlife

[@endamcnabola]

Millie is basically a satellite character to Moxxie. For one, the episode that introduced her home and family was more about Moxxie impressing them. The episode involving their mutual ex-boyfriend Chaz, Millie doesn't even get a flashback.

[@jadebasilous6151]

Yeah they are a married couple. The whole satellite thing works and they DO shift in whos gravitated around the other.

[@omnipresentl1316]

And every time Moxxie is trying to do something he gets one upped by Millie. At this rate they make Millie unlikeable because of how she was in that camp episode. She came off as very "Mary Sue-like" and then despite her being a badass and appreciated by literally every other member of the group and her own family she had the audacity to say SHE felt underappreciated to MOXXIE.

[@Corrector1]

They said that they had written a flashback for Millie and Chaz's past, but they cut it because they thought it hurt the episode's pacing. Given the reaction to that episode, I think they either should have kept the flashback and cut something else or they should have removed Millie's relationship to Chaz entirely. In the end, the episode did a lot to encourage the complaints that Millie has no purpose other than to be Moxxie's wife.

[@endamcnabola]

@@Corrector1 exactly

[@areakastudios6704]

That always confused me. They say both of them dated him, yet millie doesn't explain at all what happened.

[@smugbowkid9919]

My main problem with Helluva Boss is that it’s clearly going for a sequential storyline, episode to episode, and yet I get this feeling that no characters *really* develop beyond plotlines, which is funny because it makes Blitzo and Stolas’ relationship less character focused and more, well, story focused.

[@thecod2345]

Tbh I think they should have stuck to the pilot’s set up closer. Being a comedy with a bunch of assholes that don’t really need extensive character development works better. Plus subtle details arguably make more sense because Moxie when he’s not written terribly really doesn’t deserve being the punching bag meanwhile Moxie in the pilot is much more of a smartass which makes him getting what’s coming much more satisfying.

[@citizenvulpes4562]

@@thecod2345 I agree. When I first started watching the series it seemed to be pretty solid with the whole having to go to earth to get jobs done, now it's just kind of turning into every other web series that makes the ships the main focus, while the story and writing fall to the side. I hope it starts picking up again honestly, but, it's very jarring to sign up for a show with solid action, and a solid plot with visiting earth but then have most of the show set in hell and focused on interpersonal relationships that push the story, while actual characters just become a prop for said relationships. While the two characters that were introduced as a couple, barely get anytime to really show who they really are. Moxxie is a one note lover boy that gets shit on, and Millie is the one that wears the pants basically. Even with this newest episode, they give Fizz and Asmodeus an episode all about their relationship, when the only hint that they had a relationship before this was when Stolas and Blitz visited the lust bar. Not to mention that I don't like how they redesigned Fizz out of nowhere. I don't know, I just wish one web series can stay quality without it turning into a fanservice orgy.

[@leoboyo2723]

This

[@TheMangekyo1011]

I think a lot of the issue stems from the fact that Hazbin was always meant to be the "main series" while Helluva Boss was just the side series meant to hold fans over until Hazbin could be released in full. So all the teams creative energy is mostly focused on Hazbin. Although I'm worried the when Hazbin Hotel does finally come out that it'll be plagued with the same issues.

[@Psychoangel-d23]

@@thecod2345 It also makes loona look like an unlikeable bitch. She is practically being hard carried by her design, not her character. All she is is an unbearable bitch and a bully because of having a "bad childhood". There is a point where that excuse doesnt fly and she is way past it.

[@starbird3939]

Hot Take: The gangster episode should have been a Millie episode. She has an ex boyfriend who is obsessed with her, she would have joined the Mafia because that was where she felt her talents were best at (being a murder machine), and she left them because she fell in love with a mark (Moxxie). So she gets dragged back into the mafia, forced to matry her ex else Moxxie would het killed, and then it is Moxxie and Blitzo who have to save her. It would be the first real time Millie would have been in danger, Moxxie would have a moment of badassery, AND we would have gotten some good development for Millie. Because seriously? I thought it WAS gonna be a Millie episode since it starts with HER complaining about her ex.

[@avacadotoast5571]

Oh my god, how did a commenter on KZbin come up with a better plot than the professional writers??

[@redpanda6497]

Wait, that's such a good idea! Why didn't the writers think of this?

[@deathblade2639]

@redpanda6497 because gay romance good

[@duck7441]

Even if the mafia episode was not about millie we can still make a pressure arc for her or existential crises arc for her we can explore how she struggles to show vulnerability because of the bad ass motif or how much pressure her parents put on her or even her past relationship with chaz

[@mindyourbusiness8658]

Thats so smart

[@Fefe65800]

My main problem with HB is the balance between serious moments and comedic timing, mainly how it's very hard to care about things like Stolas being in the hospital if it's literally not talked about anymore after the episode. I liked the newest episode because the balance between comedic timing and dramatic moments was on point, making me laugh and care for the characters and their backstory

[@Bam_Bizzler]

Millennial marvel syndrome

[@carnage0685]

new episode was basically perfect, it wasn't afraid to actually get emotional and keep it that way, and a lot of the jokes landed pretty well for me. not very common that either of those things happen i feel

[@grAnita-]

@@carnage0685I mean…no it wasn’t? Like…at all?

[@LightBoltDash]

@@carnage0685 ''jokes'' bro is saying cock like 20 times in 1 sentence and swallowing sperm ''jokes'' funny to you people? jesus how immature is this fanbase? No wonder someone who appears emotionally stunted and unstable who goes on meltdowns on twitter every week finds this kind of humor funny

[@carnage0685]

@@grAnita- not what i experienced at all. odd.

[@kingbash6466]

I'm kinda disappointed that the show doesn't really take advantage of the group dynamic. Helluva Boss is suppose to be a series about a group of mercenaries in Hell. A good story could of shown how well they bounced off each other like Archer or even James Gunn's Suicide Squad and Peacemaker. However, they don't really spend a lot of time together nowadays, and while I could blame that on the growing attention towards Blitzo and Stolas' relationship, this has been an issue starting halfway through Season 1.

[@sincerelynotme3522]

Archer is such a good show and the dynamic between the characters is great. They bounce jokes off each other with ease and it's so seamless that jokes will cross multiple scenes. It helps that Lana, Cyril, Ray, Archer, Pam and Cheryl are all so different from one another. I wish we had that same dynamic in HB and judging by the pilot I thought we were but there's no consistency between the characters. They act so different from episode to episode.

[@nickbanks7954]

Speaking of Archer, I heard their doing their final season.

[@sincerelynotme3522]

@@nickbanks7954 Unfortunately yes. I wonder how they'll tie everything up. I heard Barry's back which is interesting.

[@realdragon]

One other complaint I've seen is that show doesn't explore hell at all. It's either Earth or Earth with red sky

[@Demicleas]

Know what I kinda want the cherubs from episode 4 season 1 to show up. Dispite how unpopular they seem to be I just want to see things shake Abit from the blitzo stolas drama that has seemingly taken over most of the show at this point. Plus it would be a good excuse for all the main characters to actually get the crew together again as it were instead of them all doing there own little thing. Although knowing the direction of the show Izzy will probably somehow make another stolas and blitzo solo episode.

[@timeenoughatlast3368]

14:48 Vivzi just summed up the problem with her writing style. Moxie *always* has to fail. But he never gets to save himself or do something on his own or actually develop as a character because he's the punching bag. This is why I don't find Moxie endeering. Helluva Boss isn't about its male characters, its about Stolas and Blitzo and their orbiters.

[@aikikaname6508]

It’s weird, because from the first few episodes it looked like the show was going to center on him and his relationship with Blitzo. The shows called Helluva BOSS, which Blitzo fits the bill, and the framing implies it’s about his relationship with his subordinates. Down trodden, under appreciated employee vs abrasive unreasonable boss is a tried and true concept for comedy and storytelling (Homer and Burns, Aggretsuko, Mallory and everyone in Archer), and Blitzo and Moxxie had naturally the most contrasting personalities. In the first episode, Moxxie actually got to be the one to take out the baddie, and in that early episode they got kidnapped and had to be busted out by the girls, it focused on their issues. It feels like it was meant to be about those two, but somewhere along the line Viv became obsessed with Stolas, retconned his character to make him a woobie and became obsessed with him

[@kingdingaling6516]

I'll forever stand by the opinion that Helluva Boss should've just been episodic, light hearted, and not taking itself too seriously like the pilot. I honestly believe Viv quickly got bored of the assassinations from hell plot and changed it to the melodramatic series that we got. Plus there could've been a contrasting series to the more heavy stuff Hazbin Hotel will no doubt be bringing.

[@avacadotoast5571]

Definitely. Or at least waited a little longer instead of getting into the drama in the *second episode.*

[@Bam_Bizzler]

That goes for just about all her work

[@sincerelynotme3522]

That pilot was great and I was super excited but S2 as a whole is just not it, too many things are happening at once and it's not very focused and tone and pacing is practically nonexistent. The latest episode and was better than the last one but that episode was so bad I doubted that this one would sink lower. I miss the lighthearted and funny moments from the pilot. The show really has not handled a story based series very well and it's a mess and if it was more episodic it would be better but Viv and her team insist on having lore and world building but the execution on said world building is poor at best and mismanaged at its worst. Time will tell if anything changes but I doubt it.

[@jamesjoe1690]

This is sad but true. In the few episodes, we do see IMP do they're job its usually a let down.

[@thisisanaccountalright]

Hazbin is apparently only getting 8 episodes, and I don't think it'll be renewed. I don't thibk they'll have time to get really dramatic and heavy with that little time.

[@Flower_Mom]

I think the biggest problem with this show is that Vivzie seems to surround herself with only yes men so she doesn't have anyone to tell her something doesn't work and needs a rewrite or to be cut completely. I'm hoping Hazbin Hotel will be better since it'll be more than a web series and probably has more people involved but I don't have high hopes.

[@harleyjune]

Viv has said before on twitter that she doesn't take criticism well so surrounding herself with yes men was always going to happen. I really hope A24 isn't having any of her bs and is letting their writers do a better job as Hazbin is what I was really into first. The concept for hazbin has so much more freedom and I'm hoping that they explore the world a lot better than Helluva did with the weirdly paced dips in and out of different rings of hell

[@zed9256]

My show is so awesome! My echo chamber said so!

[@lordoz2578]

She’s a 90s kid living in Los Angeles and is the maker of thei show. She’s not gonna take critism well at all. But yeah she needs No Men around her

[@sleepyllama3673]

@@harleyjune Unfortunately it won't, Hazbin by its design will focus entirely on the ring of Pride and the plight of the sinners and extermination and whatnot. Which is why IMO helluva boss exists, to explore the rest of the rings of hell and their world, I never saw it as something focused on IMP solely going to and from human world doing not much else other then killing. Though I got into helluva boss halfway through season 1 so its probably because of that.

[@duck7441]

​@@harleyjunei mean if she wants to make a good show then she needs to take criticism and learn from mistakes that's a way to improve

[@topcat59]

Honestly they should’ve made blitzo trying to find his sister the A plot and made what ever Millie and Moxxie we’re doing as the B plot, since what blitzo was doing seems to be more important while also giving the writers a chance to develop hell more.🤔🐱

[@CemeteryDxll]

Right

[@CemeteryDxll]

I feel like if he was the main focus the scene with him and Barbie would’ve maybe been written better

[@fvclips9681]

Yeah, It fels like the one scene with h8m and his sister was the pain point of the whole episode, even though it was the b plot

[@table2.0]

It’s the only good thing about the episode

[@tortoisewarrior4855]

I see the top comment here saying it should have been light hearted and not taken itself here but I disagree and believe more in what you are saying here. It could have a really good serious plot but its ruined by episodes that move way way too quickly and make the main plot actual trash so the important stuff feels on the side. Right now the show is a solid 6/10 and needs serious improving if it ever wants to be on the same level as much larger cartoons. Hoping they don't make the same mistakes with Hazbin hotel, whenever the hell that releases (please just admit its delayed at the very least A24).

[@KazeTheCursedOne]

Honestly the big problem with Helluva is its inconsistency, the good parts are really good, the bad parts are really bad and they're floating in this big subpar soup of nothingness

[@tylere.8436]

Yeah you have moments like Stolas singing to toddler Octavia like his life depended on it in a good way or Loona talking to Octavia about neglect from their fathers; then you have moments like Crimson unveiling a bunch of dildos in his room to make fun of his son or Fizz & Blitz talk about their pasts WHILE escaping a pack of henchmen and Striker.

[@Birdyboys]

Careful mangakamen, Vivzie might make a public subtweet about you

[@avena7506]

I always say Helluva Boss takes you through the 5 stages of Grief. Trying to love the show is a whole experience within itself. It has the foundations to be one of the greatest shows ever but the writing and character development remains so unaimable that you either deny it or accept it generally depending on how long you've stuck around with the show.

[@grAnita-]

Not to mansion the awful and childish “comedy”

[@JohnDoe-si8pq]

​@@grAnita-Mansion

[@grAnita-]

@@JohnDoe-si8pq *mention

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

@@grAnita- The show is horny but not in a funny way. A lot of adult animated comedies have raunchy humor but they make it work because they make it funny. You know, stuff like Robot Chicken, Drawn Together, The Venture Bros, The Boondocks, Panty & Stocking, The Ghost Stories Dub, early Family Guy. Even Bojack Horseman which is more of a drama had raunchy humor that was funny. Helluva Boss is not really funny. It has a fuckton of sex jokes just thrown in every minute. It expects the audience to laugh just because a character says something sexual. I could argue that it's kinda like Velma. Velma just throws in a bunch of sex jokes and cursing without any rhyme or reason whatsoever. It's not funny but because a character is talking about their dick we're supposed to laugh at it. The occasional sex joke or innuendo is fine but good fucking god they need better material than just "SEX EXISTS! NOW LAUGH! 😂" type of humor. Or better yet, put some actual fucking effort into the jokes.

[@iwantedtobethatanomaly2270]

I have tried my best to love the show but I just can't. I started finding a liking to the show when I first watched the pilot, but as the show went on I just couldn't ignore the terrible writing and confusing/inconsistent character developement. Stella is actually one of my favourite characters in the show and I always hoped they'd explore what made her and Stolas have such a toxic relationship but they completely ruined her character to justify a ship between Stolas and Blitz. It would have been so much more interesting if Stella and Stolas started out as a normal, even loving couple and then it started to fall apart, rather than Stella being the villain from the start. It just makes their story arc so bland and flat. If you make a character an unjustifiable monster to make the other character seem better, then you are not really good at writing, I'm sorry.

[@toottootsonicwarrior5777]

16:56 Hang on...This just reminded me that Stolas was supposed to be hospitalised. Yet in the newest episode the plot just jumps to the next thing like nothing happened...

[@melmel1-3-4]

Omg literallt i forgor that he was ever in the hospital wit no mention and it was made to be so dramatic

[@Le_Confuzzlement]

They literally just made that scene of stolas in the hospital for stolitz angst and then dropped that plot thread altogether 😕

[@LauraBow]

One thing I hate about the helluva boss fandom is how any type of criticism is met with "you must be a bigot that can't stand to see an lgbt woman succeed 😘". Ironic since a lot of criticism points out how Viv might be bigoted herself.

[@ritaerror7829]

Never heard that one... wait, Viv is LGBT? XD (never really cared about her personal live, so I know only what she does with dramas ^^")

[@LauraBow]

@@ritaerror7829 yea she's bi

[@ritaerror7829]

@@LauraBow ok, thx

[@SirBlackReeds]

What can one expect from a cartoon created by a reprobate?

[@Justanotheruser33333]

I feel like Helluva/Hazbin focus so much on specifically homosexual sex (and ngl it sometimes feels like the team is objectifying the male sex, as a girl), it's not hard to see how people wouldn't assume Viv might be into women. That's not me bashing Viv's identity btw not at all. I think I've seen people mention Viv being bi as much as her being Salvadoran, which is not a lot.

[@Birdyboys]

This show feels very “I can’t do anything wrong because I had child trauma”

[@Bam_Bizzler]

Millennial and zoomer writing for ya

[@nickbanks7954]

My daddy beat my ass but I'm ok. -Helluva boss characters.

[@rustyshackleford234]

I’ve seen people defending *modern* Chris Chan for the same reason 😭😭😭 (Yes, even after the incident of July 2021.)

[@fruitloops2058]

​@@rustyshackleford234aw hell naw

[@diarrhealord54]

Exacly.

[@Toshineko]

Honestly, I would love to have a villain that we can take as a joke and seriously, but Moxxie's dad just doesn't do it right. In Samurai Jack, Aku does get comedic here and there, but the tone remains consistent throughout the whole show, as while he's still funny, that scene with Aku ordering something on the phone is a perfect example, he still managed to be threatening and gave Jack as much as a hard time to defeat him as possible. It's not like Aku just brags about how awesome he is, then suddenly summons a bunch of teddy bears to cuddle with to show how funny he is, he still shows that he's evil and meant to be taken as a threat. That scene where Aku hears his henchman beg for forgiveness, Aku just says ''No'' and crushes him with his bare hand. That was both hilarious and threatening. You can also make a villain threatening and playful. Crocodile from One Piece in the Alabasta arc is a masterclass example. But the point is that you have to make sure the tone stays consistent, unlike what Helluva Boss did.

[@fartsmella9267]

Your example is perfect

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

Honestly I feel like it’s impossible to have a villain be taken as a joke and be taken seriously if any series tries to have an equal amount of both for the character. Or at least somewhat equal. I think the only way it can work is if one of the tones is way more prevalent than the other. Whether it be a mostly serious threatening character with a few exceptions of being taken as a joke. Or vice versa

[@AzraelSoulHunter]

@@CoOlKyUbI96 Hisoka from HxH I think does it well. He is hilarious, but he is also creepy as all hell. He can be fun and even sometimes good to root for, but also is a VERY threatening force.

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

@@AzraelSoulHunter In the case of Hisoka the reason why I think it works is because for the most part he’s meant to be taken seriously by the manga reader or anime watcher. The times humor is used, it’s sparingly. And even then out of all the humor, I don’t remember there being a lot of jokes at Hisoka’s expense

[@sharzinlalebazri5673]

Unhappy Campers was the first time ever that Millie felt like a Mary Sue. Sure, her combat feats through the rest of the show are certainly MUCH more impressive than anything she showed us in that episode, yet somehow Millie felt more like a Mary Sue because she was the only character allowed to look cool. Every cheer for Millie had to be proceeded and followed up by a boo at Moxxie's expense, every time she is shown as a cool person, it is contrasted with how uncool he is. It feels very spiteful and cruel towards a character that already gets enough shit as it is, and it just serves to prop up the coolness of the character who was already the cool, badass one.

[@DemiRurge]

On top of that, Millie has the audacity to shit on Moxxie because apparently she feels underappreciated even though Moxxie literally worships the ground beneath her feet and their boss never seems to target her with insults or jabs. This episode could have worked really well if the roles were simply switched. Have Millie's desire to show off backfire and instead Moxxie is the one who gets the fame and from there, the episode gets a natural progression.

[@sincerelynotme3522]

Everytime you think Moxxie will get some shine and show he's grown Millie comes in and takes over the scene. Every. Single.Time. It feels like she can do no wrong so for her to turn around and say she doesn't feel appreciated felt so jarring that it just wasn't believable. Moxxie loves her more than he loves himself so for her to say that felt like a slap to the face for all he's done to support her. I'm not saying characters don't change but there's no consistency to them or buildup, it just happens.

[@DemiRurge]

@@sincerelynotme3522 your last sentence basically summarized the whole show.

[@purkle200]

​@@sincerelynotme3522I'm starting to loathe Millie.

[@surrcram]

So are we just gonna forget that this is the closest Millie episode we've gotten, and it's still about Moxxie? Blame the writing for haphazardly introducing an unearned arc for Millie as we've really only seen her as an accessory to Moxxie.

[@TidalVex]

Even as a fan of Loona, I think that the argument at the beginning of "Seeing Stars" was not portrayed well at all. The episode clearly wants Loona to have a point especially with her speech to Octavia, but they also don't want to show Blitzo being in the wrong which is like- you can't have both or else you're gonna make Loona's speech feel off. The easiest way to fix it is twofold: 1) At the begnning of the episode you have to have Moxxie (the one person in the office we know really doesn't like Loona) make the argument for replacing Loona. Have Loona walk in on this and, having no context, come to the conclusion that Blitzo is actually considering it. Make so she only VERBALLY fights with him over it, with Blitzo saying the exact wrong things to make the situation worse with him pulling the "because I'm your dad" card to make her go to her desk. This then sets up Loona having trust issues. 2) While I did find the nut shot hilarious, I do agree that it's a case of bad tonal whiplash. Instead just have Loona comically put her hand out so Blitzo runs right into it when he goes for a hug, with Loona saying something along the lines of "Not right now... Dad" with a small smile to indicate she appreciates the gesture and his words, but doesn't what to be physically touched (something we've seen she doesn't like in previous episodes) There are other things about "Seeing Stars" you could change, but I truly think it's this episode that made Loona's character a tonal mess. Honestly it would be even WORSE if "Queen Bee" came out on time tbh...

[@thylacinegamer6314]

I agree. While I can't blame Loona for being pissed she did go a bit too fair. I will say this though: NONE of the imp have much right to judge Loona's workplace behavior seeing they ain't much better. Blitz is also rude to clients as shown in Season 1 Episode 1. Moxxie nearing got the others killed due you him intentionally fucking up the shot in the same episode not to mention he also blamed Loona for his fuck up in the pilot. Not to mention all three of them have no concept of subtlety. They didn't even use diguises until Loona called them out on it. Say what you will about Loona but at least she has common sense.

[@Noahed_]

As for what you mentioned in 2, my idea for reworking the groin scene is instead have her sidestep him and he trips, just to have her help him up. I think it would've fit better personally.

[@YoungMad-zx8ge]

Honestly after queen bee episode,seeing stars ruining her character development completely.Ended up being a ungrateful bitch again

[@geardog24]

It’s true that characters don’t need to grow, but having them do the same toxic things to the people they’re supposed to care about over and over again will make them flanderized and unlikeable.

[@Sleepy_Cabbage]

Not exactly true, that only happens when your show goes on forever like the Simpsons or family guy.

[@geardog24]

@@Sleepy_Cabbage My point exactly.

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

@@geardog24 Exactly. Helluva Boss as a whole felt almost like it's a flanderization of a show that never existed to begin with.

[@emblemblade9245]

Unless it’s Seinfeld

[@artistanthony1007]

The biggest problem I have is it doesnt feel like it takes place in Hell anymore and the rulers are just these good people, I was hoping Ozzie wouldn't be like Bee but apparently is, arent these supposed to be Rulers of Hell and have a higher rank? Because they dont feel like it, Mammon is just gonna be following the same path.

[@ritaerror7829]

Bee, I dunno, she is weird in general (like, of course she won't be bad, Kesha is voicing her, so it isn't really a character...) but at least Ozzie was hinted at being a nice guy. Like, He cares for Fizz, and because audience cares about him, he is a nice guy. He isn't bad in general, just... heh, pasionate about his theme, so of course he is a good host in a strip club, and doing some work on sex stuff (but it was nice to see he likes inventions in general) He was just showed in the surroundings, that made him look likeable

[@marijaposavec9854]

Honestly, I wish they make Mammon an evil bastard because it would make sense, especially since we saw what the greed ring looks like. Also, I hope they make the sin of envy evil because it kind of fits given his sin.

[@drakegrandx5914]

@@ritaerror7829 I disagree witth Ozzie, in that since his very first depiction he appears like a charismatic asshole, perfectly in-line with the tone presented in HH's pilot (which, ironically, has a much better tonal worldbuilding than the entirety of HB). Yeah, he has a soft spot or outright affection for Fizz, but that's an _eexception_ in his usual behavior, not an overall truth.

[@ritaerror7829]

@@drakegrandx5914 like I said, he is shown in surrounding making him look good. He won't be a pissy bitch in his club, because people won't be honry. He can't be an asshole to Fizz, cuz he loves him. Threatening his employees? Aww, protective boyfriend ;/ In the end we don't see him in situations which would make us question him, and probably Viv didn't want it, because how else would it be this healthy relationship vs our broken stolitz...

[@drakegrandx5914]

@@ritaerror7829 I mean, belittling and ridiculising people is absolutely an assholish move. Ozzie is just in line with most other demons, the fact he treats his guests well (and doubtfully so) doesn't mean he's "nice". And as just said, his relationship with Fizz is an esception (there's a reason if he gets labeled as a "hypocrite" by the news).

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

The show has turned aimless and its characters suffer for it, especially Loona and Millie.

[@tylere.8436]

Loona wasn't even a character in Western Energy, like damn.

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

@@tylere.8436 And she's barely in the Unhappy Campers episode.

[@harleyjune]

Her voice actress has taken on an insane amount of voice work in the last few years and apparently hasn't had time to record helluva boss. They've been putting her in but mute so people don't complain They've phased her out as a character

[@starbird3939]

My friend described the Helluva as an interesting premise marred by fan fiction level writing and shipping. Seriously, though. After all the relationship drama bullshit, it felt like a breath of fresh air and jarring to have the summer camp episode.

[@capt.artemislivius7601]

It was an episode that focused on the I.M.P. business again, yet was annoying as frick and still LOADED with drama....

[@evilira718]

Your friend should be careful, Vivziepop might call them homophobic for saying that.

[@tylere.8436]

Because Millie solved the episode in less than 30 seconds and pretty much did nothing for the rest of the trip.

[@starbird3939]

@@evilira718 They can try. Friend is NB

[@starbird3939]

@@tylere.8436 more like she was able to solve it in 30 seconds, but got to do nothing because Moxie wanted to be the one to solve the case.

[@Blizz3112]

I agree... the world building is so all over the place... its like its written episode by episode instead of an entirety...

[@MrSpartan993]

Vivsie NEEDS someone to reign her in. Her more adhd and chaotic tendencies are not doing her show OR her past webcomics ANY favors and it’s continuing to cause more and more minor problems in the long run.

[@tylere.8436]

That was Brandon Rogers, he co-wrote most of Season 1. Season 2 was all Viv and I think one episode was with some other bloke I forgot his name, doesn't even matter.

[@silverscorpio24]

My biggest issue with Stella's character writing is the whole premise of Helluva AND Hazbin is shitty people, even demons in Hell, can be likeable and relatable. Bearing that, writing a woman who is simply a one-note bitch instead of a snotty woman who's scorned by her unfaithful husband is disingenuous. Especially to make a DEMON like Stolas more angelic by comparison.

[@user-Tod-The-Toadster]

I mean, that's royalty for you (and demons) if anything Stella is the most realistic demon we've seen so far

[@silverscorpio24]

​@@user-Tod-The-ToadsterStolas and Charlie are demon royalty too. And every other reprehensible demon character in the show (Blitzo, Loona, Angel Dust, etc....) has nuance.

[@user-Tod-The-Toadster]

@@silverscorpio24 yes but they were all raised realistically, Stella was just given EVERYTHING she could want ever because she was royalty, she never had to do or want anything

[@silverscorpio24]

​@@user-Tod-The-ToadsterWhat's realistic about making a friend for one day and developing romantic feelings for him in a ten+ year absence? How did Stella feel about being betrothed to Stolas? How was her relationship with her parents? Does she have anger/abandonment issues? Is that the root of her abusive behavior? How does she feel about her daughter? Does she put up a facade of high-class lady because she feels just as lonely and empty as Stolas? Does she scheme and fraternize with other royalty in pursuit of her own love interest? Or for a good match for Octavia? How has Stolas's public affair effected her goals? FFS Stryker and Fizzeroli were given more nuanced characterization.

[@user-Tod-The-Toadster]

@@silverscorpio24 you want her to be more developed but that isn't her purpose (at least not yet) her role was to start the show with a problem for Stolas and Blitzo. Every character you cite as being nuanced and developed is either a main character or a secondary character both of whom NEED development, Stella doesn't because she is the embodiment of Stolas rejecting the life he was forced into and that's all. Maybe sometime soon you'll get the development you crave but for now, everyone else needs it more

[@artgurusauce]

I've always said this: My main issue with this show is that it feels like it's speedrunning character arcs when it would have more impact if they gave these arcs time to breathe. The emotions are there and it's _almost_ compelling but it feels like they're trying to get through it as quickly as possible so it's tough to fully enjoy those moments.

[@noviibutnotactive8385]

Yess! Especially the latest episode about Fizz. While its definitely one of the better ones, its weird how Fizz and Blitz are all buddy-buddy now over a 5 minute conversation.

[@artgurusauce]

​@@noviibutnotactive8385 Hard agree. The reveal of what caused their fallout, the clarification, a second reveal that there was foul play that caused them to grow apart, Blitz redeeming himself, _and_ being forgiven all in the span of one episode is way too rushed. That's like 3 separate episodes minimum of an arc squeezed into like 8 minutes. Imo Vivzie needs to stop dropping so much money on big name cameos for voice actors and focus a little more on the writing.

[@morgenwalsh594]

I agree with the, "I shouldn't have to look to outside sources for clarification." Sentiment. I'm not here to do homework. I think all your points have some validity, honestly. I think they always planned to tackle some darker subjects but at some point the show started taking itself so seriously, and began adding so much stuff they can't keep up with it all anymore.

[@redpanda6497]

It's kinda like FNAF.

[@NaiTaiDai]

Even though Blitz already said the r-word in the pilot. Even then, there's a way to make that interaction with the receptionist (arguably) clever: have Blitz about to say the r-word only for her to cut him off.

[@jazzyqueen4980]

Yes! This ☝️👏👏

[@tylere.8436]

It's an 18+ cartoon, can adults handle meanie words?

[@Dragon-w7k9g]

That was a pilot.

[@artistanthony1007]

​@@tylere.8436Apparently not, I feel that Viv and them are appealing to the purists and snowflakes, they began an adult show with people being shxtty, commit to it.

[@marcelberes469]

​@@tylere.8436The modern adult cares too much about comfort and gets offended by the most inconsequential things.

[@albusdumpy]

No but like, the Stella thing is true. There should be more story to her reasoning for literally tormenting Stolas. When it comes to a bad relationship, some sort of fault is on both sides. Sometimes the fault is more on one person’s side, or it’s practically COMPLETELY the other person’s fault. But in my opinion, Stella may be an absolute @-$:));&;@/!!! But Stolas should have some faults aswell.

[@jeremyallen5974]

They didn't start the whole 'Stella is an evil piece of shit' thing until halfway through the first season. Up until Harvest Moon she was just a woman who was furious that her husband cheated on her but after THAT episode she became the type of cunt one would see in those retarded Korean dramas Well, AFTER she hired some idiot to splatter his brains all over the walls, anyways.

[@albusdumpy]

@@sammiepittman3130 In my opinion, I think it’d add more drama to the story. It’s usually more entertaining for me. But just having a character who is genuinely just bad can be cool aswell, I love those kinda antagonist!!!!!!!🤩🤩

[@aikikaname6508]

Yeah, my biggest issue is that in s2 it felt like they looked at all the crap things Stolas did and reverse engineered her flaws to justify his behaviour. - Show her having a conversation with random nobles about how she’s not going to screw him again. Need to justify Stolas’ affair. - Remember how ‘they weren’t always like this?’ According to her daughter? Not anymore. Apparently she was just irredeemable and cruel as a child and it was a forced marriage to boot. - Octavia still upset by flagrant cheating ? Nope, she’s not even allowed that because Stolas tells us along the lines of ‘if I thought it hurt you I’d feel guilty’. She’s not even allowed to be REALLY upset by it or care. Because he’s not allowed to do anything which could even be perceived as at fault. Apparently there’s a line about her taking Octavia away for weekends, so I THINK there might be some attempt to push his genuine neglect and disinterest in his daughter on her too. But I’m that could just be fan speculation. It’s vexing because with the forced marriage thing, there could be an explanation for Stella beyond ‘she’s a b1tch.’ They could have gone the guilded cage route as an explanation, as she was forced into this true and while Stolas owned the castle and had a destiny as a Goetia, she was just a broodmare to carry on his line. She was controlled by her brother every bit as much as he his father, so that characterisation was so easy. But they didn’t care enough to even think about her perspective, all that mattered was she was mean and justified Stolas

[@rojczan1399]

Meanwhile next episode REVIVING STRIKER and making him USELESS in this episode.

[@Dragon-w7k9g]

Okay first of all Striker never died he escaped at the end of Western Energy. Second he brought Bliz and Fizz to Crimson and now he’s on his side meaning that we’ll see them team up in future episodes. Think before you speak is basically your comment’s biggest issue.

[@odeiofunkdeputariarum851]

@@Dragon-w7k9g "he brought Bliz and Fizz to Crimson and now he’s on his side meaning that we’ll see them team up in future episodes" my guy crimson showed 0 reasonsto why we should care about him as a villain seeing that millie easily killed his crew why even care about him and striker is just nothing but a husk of his former self Think before you speak is basically your comment’s biggest issue.

[@a1saiyan382]

@@odeiofunkdeputariarum851 cuz Crimson and Striker are the most dangerous characters of the show☠️,Millie did best his crew but she can't beat Striker can she,amd Crimson is easily the best villain of the show and important

[@krazyivan9733]

Helluva boss has more or less turned into an expensive platform for vivian to show off her OCs as of late

[@Corrector1]

Names like "Vortex" and "Striker" are the kind of things I'd expect people to name their OCs.

[@SwampLad1019]

I used to be a fan of Helluva Boss but what drove me away is, the dang fan base. They are just pure crazy. I used to be friends with a person who genuinely believed in a past life they came from the Helluva Boss/Hazbin Hotel universe. What drove me away even more from the show was just the character’s inconsistency with the characters. Like why are they trying to make us have sympathy with characters literally created in hell? Like they are supposed to be terrible people. Hazbin hotel could work with that since the story is about giving bad people a chance. However with Helluva Boss, these are hell spawns literally tasked with killing people.

[@a1saiyan382]

Bruh they ain't even people,they are just demons and were born in hell

[@tylere.8436]

Helluva Mid, a show that started with promise, to a show going nowhere at all. The latest episode is truly hilarious because of how nonsensical and contrived it truly is. Villains come together only to be no threat, Striker as a character has been assassinated, he used to be rather intimidating but has been reduced to Wily Coyote without the charm. It's a chore to watch rather than any form of delight.

[@mikzpwnz_3199]

Striker could have been 100% written out of this episode and nothing would change about it. It would have been a improvement for his character instead of being relegated to some glorified goon.

[@LightBoltDash]

Not just Stryker. As someone who ADORES New York Italian mafioso godfather type figures, I HATE. HATE. HATE just how NON threatening Crimson is. I hate how he has been portrayed as even more of a joke than Stryker ever had in his introduction. At least in Harvest Moon guy was a legitimate threat throughout and especially near the climax. And when he turns the light off in his motel room with that menacing rattlesnake rattle as his eyes glow in the dark. THAT IS GOOD. His introduction in that episode was done as nicely as the ''writing'' of helluva could push out. Meanwhile Crimson..Sure, you could say that he was intimidating in that one scene where he smacked Moxxie on the ground near the dinner table. And then what happens after that raw, dark, flashback scene of a domestic abuser mafia father who is implied to have killed his wife, the only loving figure in Moxxie's childhood probably? Dicks on the wall. Yeah. This is the kind of respect Crimson deserves I guess. *minor phrasing edit*

[@tylere.8436]

@@LightBoltDash Oh there's definitely Crimson being humiliated in the writing table, I was just too fed up to continue my rant, lol. This show is just Vivzie's slapdash fanfic slop at this point. Crimson returning this early with no sense of threat or wanting to kill Moxxie instead for some other ordeal is just so lame. Like he got a lawyer guy with a big stack of contracts, uh ohh watch out! 😂

[@mikzpwnz_3199]

@@LightBoltDash I just realised that not only the writers don't know how to write the mafioso type, The way they have written this plotline means that it's practically game over for Crimson. he has openly said that he's responsible for kidnapping Fizz to Asmodeus and being witnessed being involved with the scene of the crime by Fizz. (something a mob boss would absolutely never do or be anywhere near. Plausible deniability with an overwhelming amount of alibis is why they're "untouchable".) He's tried to openly blackmail a demon king. Now not only that he's failed in that but now would be the prime target for the revenge of someone who has a lot more money than he has; something that the demon king of greed, the ring that Crimson's operation is based in, would care about if it was down to the choice. He's also proven a liability to said demon king of greed by holding hostage the face of one of Mamon's best selling products/theme park attractions. This means he's on one, maybe two demon king's shitlists but is running out of funds as shown in S2E3 against what's probably some of the largest bank accounts in hell with no real protection as Crimson is lowly imp. Why in heaven would he think this would ever be a good idea?

[@siei3i37]

L take except for the Striker part

[@SomeBloke420]

I also have a love/hate relationship with this show, and sadly its been more hate than love since Season 2 started, and that trend is continuing even after the latest episode.

[@swiggydswirl330]

How did you dislike the most previous episode? It has the least amount of flaws than any other episodes this season

[@SomeBloke420]

@@swiggydswirl330 Compared to the rest of Season 2 the newest episode is probably the best one, but it's still not good enough. My two biggest issues with the latest episode was; how it portrayed the bad guys as incompetent, but my main complaint is how quickly Blitz, & Fizz, seem to workout/come to an understatement with their emotional baggage with each other. Another nitpick that comes to mind is the cutaway scenes with Stolas, & Asmodeus, with the lawyer, that really didn't add anything to the episode besides padding it out.

[@PokemonkaDub]

I don't really think that the focus on the male characters is because they are just male but mostly because they are not straight. Seems like the writers really like gay romance over anything else. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, untill the other aspects/plots and characters get neglected because of that. I thought that Millie and Moxxie would be a balancing act to all the madness in the show, but their relationship gets no development over the tired old "my in-laws don't like me" and them just beeign cute and loving towards eachother. We got an entire episode about Moxxie's ex boyfriend - how they met, how their relationship developed and how it ended and we still don't even know how Millie and him met and fell in love, just THAT they love eachother now, but "everything else is more interesting than that so lets not pay any attention", same for familiar relationships like the fathers and daughthers or the sibling ones. If it's not gay, why focus on it? Cuz it doesn't get talked about as much in the fandom culture as two guys banging eachother.

[@v3n0msp4rk]

it honestly feels kinda fetish-y imo

[@drksideofthewal]

With Blitz and Luna, they could have established that Luna suspected Blitz of being a pervert when he adopted her. Since it’s hell and people rarely do anything out of kindness, her skepticism would be understandable. It could have been a wholesome arc, her seeing him more and more as a father. It also could have mirrored Blitz’s own cynicism about Stolas’ intentions.

[@elliotsturtplus340]

I just realised and forgot that the job they do is killing people 😂

[@KylaTea]

So this happened with her old webcomic many many years ago. I was hoping that with Hazbin and Helluva that she may have gotten out of that bad habit. But too many characters not fleshed out, the main plot gets side tracked for the favorite characters. I think they’re doing what should have been done with HH, This just should have been a episodic show with minor connecting episodes and events.

[@Corrector1]

I know that certain characters from "Hazbin Hotel" were originally meant to appear in "Zoophobia" and Blitzo and Moxxie were originally intended to be recurring characters for "Hazbin Hotel". Maybe after "Hazbin Hotel" is finished, Vivzie will have exhausted some of her ideas and her future projects won't try to juggle as many characters.

[@providence1517]

The huge problem with this show easily have to be Vivzie and her fandom. Viv has so much issues going on on top of not being able to take criticisms, but because she made a nice looking show, she is considered beyond reproach, and always have a select few people always defending her (like seriously, you will always see someone chiming in and defending the show in face of any criticisms). Trust me, you always seem to find the same couple of people chiming in. They constantly hide behind the 'you're a hater who can't stand queer shows or shows ran by women', and Vivziepop not only allows this, but encourages it by liking their tweets. Furthermore, you get people telling critics to not criticize the show because 'the fandom having a bad time of it because they are bullied and harassed', Imagine any other fandom doing this, like Sonic or Steven Universe and see where that gets you. As for the show itself, the issues can be dumbed down to: 1. The show was supposed to be a comedy, but now it's rip-off Bojack Horseman 2. The female characters are poorly used (and less said about the whole trans thing the better) 3. They're bending themselves backwards to make Stolitz works that it's hurting the show. Like Blitz and Stolas can do little to no wrong. 4. Tone inconsistency and pacing issues At least, that's in my perspective. There are critical blogs that can explain their issues better than I can.

[@Totallyarealhuman2210]

I'd also like to add another thing defenders like to say that peeves me a bit; "This is an amazing indie show that you get to watch for FREE, why are you guys so ungrateful towards the hardworking team?" Yes the show is techically free to watch on YT (unless you pay for YT Premium and/or internet bills) but passion alone cannot make a professionaly made product float, the team still need funding via Patreon, donations, or merch sales to make those amazing(ly animated and VA'ed) episodes-as well as making more merch. Are the people who financially supported HB/HH in those ways "ungrateful" bcs their money is circulated to create a product that failed to please them in the long run? Also I personally stand by that just bcs something is "free" or "indie" or what-have-you doesn't make it exempt from critisism. Sure consideration and fairness should apply. And I would never deny Viv & Co's hard work (in the technical aspect at least), but that doesn't negate any flaws one might find.

[@AzraelSoulHunter]

It rips off Bojack in a rather incompetent way as well. Blitzo is pretty much always made to have no actual accountability, everything bad he does is either justified or an accident. He acts like a piece of shit, but the show tries to shove that he is actually a good person which is BS to me. Also it's funny how this show tries to make Demons like Asmodeus, SIN OF LUST, against not consensual intercourse. Like what? Asmodeus is a SIN of Lust, he should be all about all kinds of Lust. At this point what is the point of this show being set in Hell in the first place?

[@thepaladinbird6810]

​It's a long story, but essentially, there's a chat log of Viv being transphobic about trans masc (calling them self-hating women who chase trends). Here's a doc a few people did: docs.google.com/document/d/1sDWKNoqLLL3svx4NGOeJbg0eidZqNdw7YddezYIBc-g/edit?usp=sharing Take it as you will.

[@diegocaceres3475]

I agree with everything except the Bojack part, I'm still watching the show but so far they have very different styles.

[@thedarknessinthelight9824]

@@AzraelSoulHunter Every sin supports their sin, but there are boundaries not to be crossed. Not only is it a bad thing to do in general (like who'd actually want to support THAT kind of lust?), but there's only so much a barrier of "It's a show set in HELL" can shield you from. And besides, it's already been established that Sins don't enjoy it when people indulge on the negative side of their embodiments with Queen Bee (Blitzo drinking and making out with others to repress his emotions after episode 7).

[@PlanetZoidstar]

My issue with Stella is the blatant double standard when comparing her to the likes of Loona and I.M.P as a whole. When Stella abuses Stolas (most of which is only ever implied and never actually shown), we're meant to despise her. When Loona abuses Moxxie (which she does for no real reason), we're meant to laugh. When Stella hires Striker to kill Stolas we're meant to hate her and see her as unforgivable. When the Sinner Of The Week hires I.M.P to kill someone they have beef with, we're expected to just accept it because it's the premise of the show. It's hard to hate Stella when you actually put her actions into the context of the wider setting and see she's hardly any worse than I.M.P or your average Sinner.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

Yeah, what the hell?

[@Topboxicle]

As far as a I know (I quit after season 2 ep 1) Stella hasn't killed anyone, while the main cast murdered a bunch of secret agents for understandably trying to stop the demons that consistently show up into the human realm to kill people. Fundamentally the stakes in the show depend on who are the "good guys" and who are the "bad guys"

[@comicbookreviewer4856]

I think Stella is handle well she like that parent you had who abuses your one good parent or treats others around theme like the Queen Bee or thinks they can have what ever they want when they can't

[@Unhappytimeaper]

I find the issue with Stella just so much linked to what her bad actions are meant to be with Stolas. She’s pure evil and blah blah blah, but only because we need to feel bad for Stolas. When the series started Stolas wasn’t a good person either; call it what you want but he did harass Blitzo in the first few episodes and was okay with doing horrible actions that align with being a demon [such as enjoying global warming]. He was slimy and not a good person, something that doesn’t justify Stella’s abuse but we can understand better why they’d have been married and worked as two shitty, skeevy demons. But Stella’s shitty and abusive actions are only framed to make us feel bad for Stolas, and root for the lovely, sweet owl boyfriend to do anything for what is just a different form of emotionally destructive relationship. Stella’s flaws is not that she doesn’t fit into the main world, it’s that Viv back the character into a wall of the only way to develop her was make her look unjustified because Stolas and Blitzo need to be the OTP rather than have either of them be villains in the relationship it feels like.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@comicbookreviewer4856 In a vacuum I agree that Stella is an awful, abusive person. Buuuuut when you compare her to Loona it's clear the writers are playing to a double standard. If Stella was uniquely cruel and abusive in a way that put her over Loona's abuse and cruely, I'd agree, but if anything Loona is worse.

[@samflood5631]

Mind if I say that one of my problems with Helluva Boss is how poorly written, underutilized and mishandled the female characters are. They barely give any character focus episodes on Loona and Millie. Millie is just a “Bloody hungry smiling psycho girl” who would have her own character without Moxie around. There’s no reason why Loona is always angry and mean to anyone, especially Moxie. I want to know why does she treat him like crap. Hell, Verosika, Blizto’s ex girlfriend, isn’t given any reason why she still hates him. I mean the two used to date but we never get to explore that relationship and what caused Verosika and Blizto to break up. Princess Stella has been reduced to a writers’ chew toy, making her look like an unlikeable bitch to the prince who cheated on her. Her daughter Octavia is nothing more than just a plot device who doesn’t have a character of her own. Point is that the female characters are just as mishandled and underdeveloped as the female characters of Kingdom Hearts, Naruto and My Hero Academia.

[@nunusthoughts]

I'm sorry I have to disagree you are right about millie but Luna actually does have a reason why she so mad all the time it's because the time when she was in the pound she was abused there and treated like a animal and we get a whole episode focusing on her issues and with Veronika we actually get the reason on why she hates blizto when we first met her it is stated that bliz stole from her and in season 1 final episode she told us that bliz was being selfish I kinda hope we will see thier relationship in the past like you said tho

[@nunusthoughts]

Oh I forgot to add this Luna and Octavia got their own episode together and it was pretty good too

[@fartsmella9267]

even though they kill people every episode Stella yelling at Stolas as opposed to him cheating on her is supposedly worse according to the fans

[@orlandotill]

Octavia is the best written female character. Millie and Loona are written to be generic badass or generic mean-spirited comedy respectively

[@nunusthoughts]

@@fartsmella9267 Stella is one dimensional but I don't think it's because she's a female I'm saying this as female I think it just because they didn't have any room for another fleshed out character when the others require their attention and character development

[@capt.artemislivius7601]

This show having Set-up and Pay-off issues!? Oh gee! It's like a thing that was only in the embryonic pilot stage that didn't develop further thus having to make up stuff as it went along with no plan suddenly getting popular is actually a bad thing, and NOT an "animation masterpiece" as everyone claims.😂

[@kaylaHat]

The writers definitely had a rough idea of what would happen and then made it up as they went

[@TheMangekyo1011]

Yeah, it was pretty clear right off the bat that the creative energy was mostly focused on Hazbin Hotel since Vivzie herself said that was the series she wanted the most while Helluva boss was just a side series. Heck, she admitted that Helluva Boss was mainly there to explore the rest of Hell since Hazbin will be confined solely to the Pride Ring.

[@capt.artemislivius7601]

@TheMangekyo1011 That seems a bit backwards given their pitch pilots. Hazbin seemed like it was gonna have all the worldbuildung while Helluva seemed like the sidestory focusing on minor characters in a specific place. But apparently, for lack of a better term, Vivzie blew her wad too early and dumped all the worldbuilding to the sideshow with little to no subtlety. At this point, Hazbin is gonna seem like the sideshow with not much depth to offer while Helluva is the main show...

[@capt.artemislivius7601]

@kaylapowanima As an aspiring writer myself, there's definitely a difference between knowing where the story/characters start and eventually end vs how it/they will get there.

[@kaylaHat]

@@capt.artemislivius7601 aspiring writer too, yup, but it would be fine if they just got someone to make sure as few reckons as possible happen. You can’t retroactively explain these things on twitter and act like you’re a good writer, even just some dialogue would fix confusion

[@nickbanks7954]

When this series first debuted, I thought it was going to be a Great Value Billy and Mandy cartoon with funny dark humor that I can get behind. But as time went on, it became a Dollar Tree Moral Orel but in hell and done 100 percent all the way wrong. It got to a point where I want Maxwell Atoms to come back and show Viv how to do it right. This show basically turned into the movie Nothing But Trouble, but the only difference is that they were saved from celebrity cameos like Digital Underground, and that was the best part of the movie with them singing all around the world the same song with Dan Aykroyd as the judge.

[@hboiko9167]

The new episode is so HORRIBLY PACED??? I feel like I'm watching Tiktok rather than an actual episode. It's also very frustrating how dumbed down Striker is, they did him DIRTYYYY😭😭😭😭😭.

[@autumnrose9922]

Fast pacing, slow pacing, none of these are real problems. The new episode's real problem is that it builds to NOTHING, which is why it feels empty and rushed. Fast-paced shows aren't a problem.

[@autumnrose9922]

helluva boss has nothing to say when it's showing the things they do. Like, why is this story in hell? what would that do to the themes? if they knew, they'd be able to write a ep. that's 11 mins or 30.

[@hboiko9167]

@@autumnrose9922 I agree with your points, but the one thing about the episode is that whatever it's trying to tell isn't given focus or time to develop. Heluva Boss has overall been a normally paced series. But these last few are both empty AND they don't give you time to take in what you just saw. It has the same pacing as a YT COMPILATION 🤡

[@Bombonribon]

Honestly; Helluva Boss would've been better if it was just a pilot, because even in it's first episodes it still had major continuity issues; also, a HUGE problem, like Viva not knowing where the story was going because esse didn't plan anything for the show, and the fact that because Haz in is now an A24 property, she can't say anything about the world building whiteout it having some repercussions to HH, also like just one quick question but like considering Stolas is a Prince, wouldn't there be a moment where him, Asmodeus and other guys that appeared in HB make also an appearance in HB, and wouldn't that be idk, kind of make the plot convoluted? Like how would they make a history where Blitz, Loona, Mooxie, Mile and other characters interact with Charlie, or Angel?? Like seriously the more I think about this the more I think Vivz, and her team shoot themselves in their foots...

[@hboiko9167]

@@Bombonribon Exactly! Helluva Boss would've benefited greatly from just sticking to being an episode driven show rather than one that TRIES to develop its world building but at the same time.... doesn't WANT to? Cuz what we have now just feels so small, inconsistent, all over the place and just makes zero sense.

[@Zephirite.]

16:12 Unless you stop to check the posters in the first episode, you wouldn't even know Blitz HAD a sister until this episode.

[@liammiller6247]

22:42 The most frustrating aspect of this response is that both the initial Twitter user and Viv are _missing the point._ This logic mostly tracks-Loona thinks she and Blitzo have come to understand one another more, but a week or so later, he's (in her eyes) threatening to get rid of her. Right? That's a batshit interpretation of what Blitzo said, for sure. If they wanted her to react like this, they should have...oh, I don't know... _gave her some fucking character development prior to this._ But even if I accept that Loona is internally justified in reacting like this...this whole subplot is still fucked because it treats Blitzo like he's in the wrong! Why is he having an onstage breakdown about "giving up" Loona? Why does he apologize to her? Why do the writers feel the need to absolve him of this "sin" with a kick to the nuts and a Grimoire to the face? Viv can pretend like people don't like these scenes (or Seeing Stars in general) because they missed out on the context provided in Queen Bee, but that's not the problem. Blitzo was acting reasonably and Loona wasn't, but he's the one the episode punishes. The writers seem so unwilling to make any of the female characters grow and/or change that they wrote themselves into a situation like this (and Viv has the audacity to be like "why are so many people repeating the same criticisms? Must be the haters lmao")

[@providence1517]

This. I still remember how I was called media illiterate for voicing my complaint about Loona's behavior. And what more, Viv said there was not going to be anything plot relevant in Queen Bee, yet here she is, saying that Loona's acting this way because she took care of Blitz in Queen Bee and felt 'betrayed'. Yeah, not relevant, my foot.

[@harleyjune]

Loona is mostly there as tsundere furry bait. They arent allowed to punish her with character development or she loses her 'charm'

[@Corrector1]

@@providence1517 About the relevance. I thought this too initially, but I double checked Viz's original tweets and she didn't say that "Queen Bee" wouldn't have any relevance at all, she said that it wasn't relevant to the story in "Ozzie's", which as far as I know ended up being true.

[@providence1517]

@@Corrector1 Well, my mistake then.

[@Phirpheus]

I feel pretty similar to you, for me Loo Loo Land was such a good first impression that no other episode has come close to it. And that really has been making me feel sad because none of the other episodes have been as good as it.

[@jay-yi9im]

Honestly after the whole truth seekers episode I thought moxxie wouldn’t be the butt of the joke’s anymore

[@jaylorts1608]

Stop it... please. He's been through enough.

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

@@jaylorts1608Just give that little demon guy a break for all the crap he went through, for Christ's sake.

[@jaylorts1608]

@@HankJWimbleton-v1m exactly

[@kakashi6957]

​@@jaylorts1608but it's true moxxie constantly gets underhanded he got knocked out after standing up to his father only to have mille come in and save the day and then a few episodes later make a shitty half assed story for her that doesn't any of her past or how she got so violent or anything new to her character while making Moxxie an annoying thorn on her side.

[@pride_mitochondria3921]

Honestly hearing Brandon Roger's voice of all people make a comment on how you can't say "Retard" anymore is ironically funny in a way.

[@undyne1]

My issue with Helluva Boss is the writing and the inconsistencies in the "plot". Some characters act entirely out of character for the sake of the episode (unhappy campers), and other times the show will hint something big and story changing, just to be forgotten by the next episode (truth seekers). Sometimes it even forgets it's a show about mercenaries, focusing more on side plots/characters, which is fine taking a break from that, but we've been away from the main gimic for too long. I'm also having a hard time taking in the emotional moments because of the badly timed comedy, that mostly consists of sex and sexual comments.

[@harleyjune]

All of season 2 has had weird time skips, episode 1 starts with baby stolas, then jumps forward 25 years and then jumps an indeterminate amount of time again. Western energy has the striker fight happen, stolas gets hospitalised. Happy campers is specifiec to be set over the course of a week AFTER stolas is in the hospital which is never touched on again after that episode. Then the most recent episode takes place soon enough after ozzies that the newspaper is still circulating the images of ozzie and fizz but the series implies its been over a month by the messages between stoals and blitz and the calendar at the start of the stars episode. But Striker says he 'had a royal on the ropes last week' which was stolas. So stolas had been in hospital for a week, the same week Unhappy campers established that blitz was frantically searching for his sister. Seems weird that he would also be fixing his friendship with fizz and stolas is remarkably okay for someone who got cut up with angelic weapons and had broken bones. Also Striker is meant to be a very capable assassin (demon royalty have hired him, he must have some notoriety) so why has he left wrath and gone to work for a random mafia family? Seems like a big step down.

[@jeremyallen5974]

Puh-lease, any jackass can shoot a royal from a window Just ask Lee Harvey Oswald

[@hybridvenom9]

And also oops the worst episode of helluva boss i know that people have their own opinions but why even just say that this episode is the greatest even haters like it i hate the show and i still hate it why am i even watching it still just to know if it will get better i really hope it does

[@a1saiyan382]

@@hybridvenom9 well you just speaking bs☠️,the episode was just Perfect

[@hybridvenom9]

@@a1saiyan382 lackadaisy pilot that is like a great pilot but i still got flaws with the pilot i had to show a line somewhere like yeah i do not believe in such thing as like a perfect episode

[@KrillWhisperer]

It just hit me that this show would never fly outside of internet with how much lore and basic info you have to find outside of the show itself. Like damn I never picket this shit after 1st season (didn't even watch that ep that got taken down for ages) and I probably never will because of how much I hate the basically nonexistent structure of the show.

[@aggroblu9753]

It wasn’t until I watched this video that I remembered stolas got fucked up in a recent episode because he showed up in the last one just, completely fine. When I saw him I didn’t think anything of it, just ok stolas is talking so ozzy now. It seems like they forget to connect episodes most of the time. Last time we saw him he, an almost unkillable all powerful demon, was so hurt and messed up he needed to be hospitalized. Then he was just fine again.

[@psychofilm6976]

Took the words out of my mouth dude, I lost interest in the show because the writers have no idea how to write a proper script and instead of making an interesting show the story feels like a fanfic by an edgy teen who think adult shows are just sex and violence. Not to mention it feels like two steps forward and 200 steps back with character development. Not to mention the fans are just as toxic as the demons trying to excuse bad writing. But I’m NOT saying you have to hate it if you lie, the show then congratulations and keep on watching it and do t get pissy if someone had problems with the show. The only thing that will maybe MAYBE make me watch the show again and give vizi another chance is that + give the character REAL character development and not just for one episode and they go back to the status quo that includes fixing + enough with the sex jokes because at this point it’s becoming annoying and childish and not to mention making the show feel like modern family guy + have real threats that shows that imp isn’t invincible like have a moment where they could actually die, it could be from a villain that they have made in the pats looking for revenge, dork made a weapon that can critically hurt them or have them being hunted down. Like real stakes. + have the story fallow the lore because season two didn’t just forget the lore but burn it got amnesia and forgot everything. If someone said they are from the sloth ring even if they are from the wrath ring then they better explain themselves for the reason and not a post from the writers or staff because hay I’m not going to X or Twitter to find out why 🙄

[@softkittens9371]

Hit the nail right on the head. I have always felt HB writing style just feels like fanfic you'd find on Wattpad. I'm sad because I wanna be interested in the show again, but the writing is making it hard for me to enjoy it. They really need to hire some good writers and see how big of a change it would make for the show. Also it really sucks Millie is overshadowed by Moxxie because she's my fav character :( I find her design and southern accent cute, but honestly there's not much else unfortunately.

[@sincerelynotme3522]

While I feel the latest episode is a step up I don't really expect it to last. Why? Because the show is inconsistent, you'll have a good episode then immediately afterwards have a bad one or just an okay one. They still haven't figured out pacing and tone as S2 is full off emotional moments played off as a joke and rushed plot lines. This episode was fine but I expect things to be more unpolished in the next episode. I want to be optimistic but the series has shown me time and time again that that's not a good idea.

[@deathblade2639]

It's not even that edgy. It's more "safe-edgy", in other words, it tries to be avanguard and pushing boundaries but never dares to push too far in fear of offending the easily offended

[@artistanthony1007]

Code Lyoko has XANA constantly on the verge of killing the kids but it does manage to kill its creator, Aelita's father who helped complete and power the Anti-XANA Program when it dies, the two don't come back in the show's finale Echoes.

[@-m00d-]

Tbh helluva boss is like reading a fanfic an edgy 14 year old wrote.

[@skytheemperor]

Basically

[@shawerful5209]

"So theres is these evil and complex demons who are hitmen. And they are helped by the demon prince who fucks the hitmen boss, but they are not in love because relantionships are too normie, or maybe they are?"

[@insectostrich4407]

Is anyone else worried that Hazbin Hotel will have these tonal and writing problems? Personally, one thing I’m hoping for is that Vivzie will utilise the fact that the Pride ring residents are already dead. So they won’t actually be “killed” for comedic effect, thus when things do get serious it’ll still feel consistent. And when the Exterminations happen or people use those demon killing spears it’ll feel that much more impactful.

[@sethisevilone02]

Yeah hh will def have a harder time killing sinners They can still "die" but they can respawn

[@valentinkambushev4968]

What I am l especially worried about are the female characters. I think we can all agree that the female characters in Helluva boss are underdeveloped at best and awful at worst, and the reason is that, apparently, Helluva boss is a "Guys' show" while Hazbin Hotel will be "Girls' show". I want to believe this, but considering how much spotlight Angel dust and Alastor have been getting so far...

[@insectostrich4407]

@@sethisevilone02 Oh yeah, I know they can respawn. I’m just hoping they’ll make that clear when they show Sinners getting mowed down by a machine gun or hit by a car that they don’t really die.

[@ghristophermyers666]

@@valentinkambushev4968 I doubt Angel and Alastor will outshine Charlie and Vaggie in the show.

[@harleyjune]

It's being made by A24 so I'm assuming they have their own writers and are only using Vivs sorry outline, not her writing team. Any pacing or tonal problems should stay in helluva boss

[@ebenezerboateng5915]

Damn bro, I really feel you. This show can be really entertaining one moment and then drop the ball the next. For a time i didn't watch the 2nd season due to my anounce with its 1st episode, but then I continued and found some moments and jokes that made me have fun again. Nevertheless, I do feel like the shift the show is going through with it's 2nd season might lead to me not watching the show anymore. I hope the show improves, and that the crew is able to tell the story they want to tell (even if it unfortuantly means rewriting the character and shifting the tone of the series), but I can't be certain if I'm gonna be along for the ride.

[@criticalfailgaming1976]

I would argue that Stella's abusive nature was evident from the beginning. In episode 2 she's screaming so loud she's heard across the mansion and throwing things at Stolas. Octavia acts so nonchalant about it, like it's a regular occurrence and not a new development.

[@jesseleiker4228]

Except she’s yelling about how stolas cheated on her with an imp. They could have been arguing over this issue for a while, thus still justifying Octavia being used to it. A regular occurrence doesn’t have to be years, it can be months too.

[@criticalfailgaming1976]

@jesseleiker4228 while I can see where you're coming from, I have to respectfully disagree. To me, Octavia just seems too comfortable with that morning routine for it to be only a matter of months.

[@OR56]

I love how do you call them the “stick boys” Stolas is supposed to look super powerful and intimidating, and to an extent, he does. But it is kind of offset by the fact that it looks like I could break the prince in half, with my bare hands!

[@starry-eyedatstarryskies1797]

I've been really disappointed in the show for a while now, after the high and excitement from the first season died down and after unhappy campers came out I looked back and noticed all these things that didn't add up, things that I didn't notice or just straight up ignored. This show had the potential to be really good and fun, but I think what's really killing it for me is how defensive and unapologetic Viv and other staff are in response to any form of criticism, especially with how they're handling the female characters. The reason fans are upset is because they do love the show and want it to improve, but there's this toxic mindset that you're not allowed to criticize it cause it's an indie project. Being that the show is entirely funded by fans, you'd think they'd be more open to what fans have to say.

[@jbpiano5313]

Season 2 of Helluva boss is like the last 2 seasons of Star vs the forces of evil focus too much on shipping and wasnt planned and made in the go

[@thatoneguy9339]

This show is just Family Guy but with demons.

[@seandewar47]

Timing is absolutely hilarious

[@kingj9664]

I know right

[@tylere.8436]

Sort of, but the episode still sucks, it's more of a chore to watch than a delight.

[@kingj9664]

@@tylere.8436 I thought the episode was good

[@cassiushellsin6243]

It’s a good episode until you sit there and think about it for 2 seconds. This is what I anticipate every single time a new episode releases 😂

[@kingj9664]

@@cassiushellsin6243 then at that point you're probably over thinking and net picking, Cause this episode was pretty good for the most part

[@theinventiveidiot]

I'm currently watching the recent episode, and accidentally clicked this notif, and also LITERALLY just yesterday I was talking to a co-worker about that spongebob scene bit that you opened with LMAOO

[@kingj9664]

What did you think about the newest episode

[@gianlucagiusti6174]

@@kingj9664 I thought it was actually good. And I say as one that had lost most of his interest on the series.

[@theinventiveidiot]

@@kingj9664 I know I’m two months late, but I enjoyed it, thank you for asking.

[@cupidkitty6668]

The whole series is so hard to follow. I sort of expected there to be a build-up in season one with a climax, the end of season one, and the beginning of season two when the series plot started to alter from assassination to a love/drama one. To even follow the plot you have to either be heavily involved with the fandom or watch videos breaking down new episodes, which not everyone has time for. Every episode feels like it's on repeat almost--like we aren't getting anywhere despite the series continuing on.

[@sachamarzullo]

My problem with Helluva Boss is there's a lot of content that makes the series look like a cringe sexist show instead of a series with adventure. Too much explicit content irks me. I only keep watching because I like the main characters and their inner conflicts or the action that takes place on their surroundings. One thing that truly disgusts me is when an certain character gets development but suddenly decaes for shitty reasons.

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

Right, Helluva Boss almost feels like it was written by a 14 year old edgelord being given WAY TOO much material and production budget to create an adult-animated show. The whole show is literally just a middle-schooler's conception of "adult" humor and whatever shit they think it's funny.

[@hardboiled2987]

Its not edgy lol thr writers didnt even have the guts to let blitz say the word retard. Its a tumblr show with all the bi/gay and dick jokes

[@ibraahimdureng7482]

@@HankJWimbleton-v1m I respectfully disagree the is good at least to me.

[@TheobaldLeonhart]

First season was good, second... The reason why I'm still watching it, is basically the same reason why I kept (re)reading a manga series, I don't read like "maybe it gets better, eventually" Only reason why I haven't given up on HB, is because it's free. And I can just put it on in the background

[@artistanthony1007]

Free should not be an excuse for this.

[@shlokwaghela9560]

​@@artistanthony1007We are not necessarily excusing it but stating that its not hurting anyone

[@towa417]

One thing that bothers me so much in the overall lore of this show is that it's supposed to be hell aka only bad and evil people are here but if you look beyond the murder comedy none of the cast is evil, they have issues of miscommunication and flaws but none are what we would call evil trying to hurt and manipulate others, taking over the human world etc.Hell just feel slike the human world, heck even the 7 sins who are supposed to be the worst of all are and in love with kisses and cutsie, consents etc and its just falls flat to me, thats not hell its just the human world with a constant red sky. They even die and im just?? how can you die if your already dead? There is no worldbuilding its whatever Viv decides it should be now

[@ZigTheHunter]

You are right that it isn’t well explained and confusing. As for your main problem, if you care for an explanation, their are sinners who were humans who died and were sent to hell, they are meant to be bad and evil people cause that’s what they were sent to hell for. Then there are hell-born creatures that aren’t necessarily good or bad because they weren’t sent to hell they were merely born there.

[@artistanthony1007]

​@@ZigTheHunterIt just makes anyone who sins and dies evil when that isnt true, we all sin and if we die then we are still ourselves, Sinners dont equate to Evil, only when they are evil.

[@spinestealer8129]

25:09 not to mention that Blitzo literally calls Moxxie the R-slur in the pilot 👀

[@zed9256]

He doesn’t finish the slur because the show would be cancelled. I think that was fourth wall. It is strange that he can be fine with adultery but not finish the word rarted.

[@areakastudios6704]

I can't say I'm a big fan of what they've done with Moxxie. Despite all of the episodes developing him and trying to prove his strength, he always returns to being incapable and childish. I just wish he'd actually own up to these promises and take stuff down on his own, which so far he's only done once.

[@ritaerror7829]

It would probably be tiring anyway, but it looks like it was meant to be funny, episodic show with a status quo (in this case Moxxie being manchild). And if thinking about it... the only status quo changes was them wearing disguises... other than that, season one was pretty much always the same (even with the one episode, one new villain plot)

[@Inkgutter]

Helluva Boss's episodes have always been a constant hit and miss. I hate it when a serious moment or plotline is broken by some lame joke but when the serious moments do happen, they''re a lot of fun.

[@brayenmorrison3199]

First... Careful now MangaKamen. You might have the fans knocking on your door right now.

[@sugarcube7812]

Fizzarolli didn’t feel like the same character in the latest episode so, for anyone who hasn’t watched the episode- SPOILERS AHEAD!! Cause I’m gonna spoil a lot 😂 What I got from him in his debut episode was that he was more of a runner- but was still quick enough on his feet that he could get out of nearly any situation because he was so fast but in this episode he felt like he was being written by a straight fujoshi from 2013. He did nothing to defend himself and spent most of the episode crying. Especially when the green fire started swarming him, instead of fighting tirelessly for a way out because he’d been in that situation before and he’d know how it was going to end, he literally sat down and cried. S1 E7 Fizzarolli would not have done that!! It really feels like Vivzie turned to fanon for this episode, and that gets messy really quickly when your characters all entirely different depending on the episode

[@mikzpwnz_3199]

When his robot version seemed more of an actual threat than the real deal. I get that the robot's bullet proof but I was watching his "distraction" expecting striker to shoot at him cutting him off halfway and then all hell braking loose with fizz using acrobatics and hijinks to get the right stuff blitz needs for them to escape.

[@diegocaceres3475]

When the fire started he didn't do anything because his arms were broken.

[@ronaldmacjokerfeliz2669]

I find it curious how he forgave so quickly the "cause" of him losing his arms, legs, becoming a walking burn scar and probably having damaged organs

[@sugarcube7812]

@@diegocaceres3475 oh yeah, I understand that! But beyond that, he didn’t really look for a way out? He didn’t try anything beyond a quick little arm trick… I’m assuming his legs were still working, since there was no need for Ozzy to change them, he could’ve done something with his legs. Instead, he just sat there and cried.

[@diegocaceres3475]

​@@sugarcube7812yeah I get what you mean, I think it was because of his trauma who kicked on after seeing himself surrounded by fire.

[@reagansido5823]

When I was watching Unhappy Campers for the first time, I got about 2 seconds into Moxxie putting on his teenage girl act and actually stopped the video and contemplated whether or not to keep watching.

[@Nanashi20]

I kinda highly agree with the stolas thing. It kinda looks like he became popular and then they decided to change the view of his trope by giving him some trauma backstory afterwards.

[@BaronB.BlazikenBaronOfBarons]

Honestly, the fact that this video comes out the same day as a new episode (S2E6) is just plain funny.

[@BloodRedSandman613]

VivziePop: Hey! Check out our new episode of Helluva Boss! MangaKamen: Yo Vivzie, I'm real happy for ya and I'mma let ya finish...

[@AnotherCoyote]

These are great and oddly unique criticisms of Helluva Boss. It's a shame MangaKamen is the only person I've heard making them. the _Dire Gentlemen_ pointed out that Stolas should not be the same age as Blitzo, though we can bend our thought to accept the contrivance, but MangaKamen's issues are serious on all levels. Here's hoping vivienne discovers this channel and starts listening along so she can master the art of character writing.

[@naotatheendlessesper]

Okey but can we talk for a moment how good was today's episode ? Granted the previous one left the bar way too low but I am glad they didn't sacrifice characterization for the sake of making a conflict and comedy. Although fizz forgave Blitz too fast..... although it was a an accident and blitz was a child who also lost his mom so that left way too much trauma ...

[@samiam7327]

wait new episode dropped today? how did i miss that 0 - 0

[@hybridvenom9]

The episode just fine i had a way too much questions into that episode and the humor is cringe i expected what i got and then i actually got what i expected boring

[@capt.artemislivius7601]

Are you _sure_ it was good???

[@naotatheendlessesper]

@@capt.artemislivius7601 yes

[@hybridvenom9]

Yes and no i do not know what i like in the episode so and i'm not rewatching the episode never will happen i don't know about the show if it's going to be good in like a few years but i don't care

[@modernmarrow1411]

It feels like the idea that they're assassins was thrown out the window in favor of romance and that kinda just ruins the show for me. Idk what goals any of the characters have outside of Stolas trying to get with Blitzo.

[@ritaerror7829]

Moxxie going over his self esteem issues (again) xD well, maybe not the goal, but I won't even be surprised if we would get another episode for just that...

[@firecrakerj3312]

2019: OH MY GOD! HELLUVA BOSS IS THE GREATEST THING EVER! ROCK ME LADY VIVZIEPOP! 2023: Helluva boss? More like Helluva Mid show. That Vivizie chick is gonna snap one day.

[@sethisevilone02]

Exactly s1 was 8/10 S2 5/10

[@capt.artemislivius7601]

Who knows!? Maybe she already did....

[@hybridvenom9]

2023: posted another one wow is this like marvel i don't know what else to add maybe in the next year 2024: helluva boss? that's the thing that everyone hates i regret nothing

[@DrDictator]

@@sethisevilone02 (Bit of a long read, apologies) To be fair, we're only 6 episodes into season 2 now. So it's not exactly the most fair comparison, but I can agree that so far, things are looking pretty downhill from the first season. Like every episode in season 1 was not only giving us interesting plots, but it was introducing new characters and would have both new characters and main characters setting up their connections with each other and how things work, etc., even the first 3 episodes of season 2 were tolerable imo, they kind of had the same feeling and care put into everything that season 1 felt like it had, but episode 4 and 5 of season 2 felt like such nothing burgers outside of pretty much just drama and slight world building. Episode 6 that came out today feels like they're kind of taking a step forward in the right direction in some areas, but some other areas with this new episode was kind of confusing/overdone for comedy and came off as pretty cringe (spoiler warning: especially the fizz song that happened where none of the bad guys decided to just shoot and kill fizz immediately or while he was singing, since he was obviously trying to distract them so they could escape) and it felt like the same stuff that we got from episode 4 and 5, which is what is turning me away from this new season and a lot of other people assumedly as well.

[@redpanda6497]

@@sethisevilone02 I'd say it's a 4/10.

[@konradklukowski1009]

Yea the show is starting to become a melo-drama. I used to laugh at least five times every new episode and now I laughted only once when watching the second season. I got into the show because of the action and comedy. I think I’m no longer the target audience…

[@sonicmastersword8080]

This is the best way I can describe it: Good ideas, bad execution. When someone else with an actual vision takes the reins-he makes masterful works; however, the current production team has almost no focus. If they want to do world building, then the episodes either need to be longer and/or the show needs more moments of subtly.

[@kotlolish]

Yea I kinda have the same problems with the show. The inconstiencies in Season 2 have been increasing ALARMINGLY! Though the latest one. (Not in the review)... is back on par what I think of the show. But season 2 episode 1... I was like: "How does this explain Stolas and Blitz?" And it went on and on of the inconstiencies.... and when Vivzie or others explain on Twitter... I am like: ...No.. that's not a good fix. Especially with Loona... (not the ball kicking one, I can explain that one) But in the latest episode.. we see this "Act in your denial of love" It seems love is THUROUGHLY bad in Hell. Yet when Millie and Moxie are around.. it's fine.. but you know why it's fine? Their Imps... low lives.. and it's clear the two get mocked CONSTANTLY by it.. cept by.. Blitz. But in the latest episode , Blitz uses the same "We just use eachother" antedocte... So when Loona kicks Blitz in the balls... it's her doing her denial spiel to keep things straight. Cause Loona acts out against Blitz to keep up appearances for her own sake. And before you go: "But she loves him and is nice." or "It's just a joke"... I am going: "She a fucking awful person with aggresion issues that can be nice and change, but will revert to her status quo wich is beating up Blitz." That's just it with Loona... she beats up Blitz and Blitz LETS IT HAPPEN and I could go with "Theorizing" and say: "Blitz hates himself too much, thus he gives Loona what she needs despite Blitz being hurt and injured constantly... It helps him realize of all the terrible he has done and he deserves it and how even if he can "save" someone like Loona, only someone like her gets to punish him." But the show doesn't tell us that... so you can project whatever you want onto it. And there lies the biggest PROBLEM with Hellavuh Boss and in my opinion... Online show content. You would think being able to do whatever without having censors and such coming after you will allow Hellavuh Boss to shine.. but... i think there is internal problems and most importantly... "Online pressure" With this I mean.... we know how aggresive internet mobs are. This is what the creators fear the most and why the R word was removed and made a joke of. We have heard some murmers and turmoil coming from the people who worked with Vinziepop and other working with them to go against them. This in my opinion shows there is bad friction within the company REGARDLESS since: A: Someone lied to bad mouth the show (a trouble maker who may have broken some of the show) B: Someone was telling the truth and everyone else burried it. So what if someone is so awful and terrible to lie? What will you do? Get rid of any work they have done and purposely avoid things to not get sued. (Since they got sued before) And what if the reverse is true? Same dealo. Now add extra pressure from the internet... your customers... telling directly what they think is going on.. or interpert it wrong.. and to keep the show "great" in their eyes. You have to do things like Twitter to keep em engaged... and then rewritting certain things to make it work with twitter threads and such. Because if you don't do it.. you are nothing more then Hollywood, ignoring the fans. And considering Vinziepop is one of the PIONEERS of this animation industry to succeed in it... you can guess she's driving in blind and having to navigate the minefield that she put herself in. Does this all make sense to you? I hope so.

[@ARStudios2000]

It does make sense, yeah.

[@thylacinegamer6314]

I do wish for more consistency.

[@deathblade2639]

I recently came across a 4chan greentext meme It goes: > Show set in hell > No rapists > No nazis > No racists > No child molesters > Just loads and loads of homosexuals What did vivzie mean by this? It's honestly quite accurate.

[@ritaerror7829]

Well, to be honest, HH was going to be about sinners, and HB is about demons who acts like humans, just in hell. Still weird, but it's not like they were send here for bad behavior, they just were born

[@deathblade2639]

@@ritaerror7829 At the same time you'd expect a tad bit different set of behaviors and beliefs among hell's denizens instead of a copy of modern sensibilities, considering they even have a somewhat rigid caste system which is a source of prejudice in hell-borns. Then again, it's Blitz x Stolas the show so everything revolves around them, so exploring hell as a society and establishing the worldbuilding of hell itself is inconsequential unless the plot demands it.

[@ritaerror7829]

@@deathblade2639 I know I know. Personally I have the same problem, just... being born a shitty place and being send there for a reason is a bit different. In general, there should be a lot more toxic and unacceptable behaviors, but for some reason no one wants to touch it...

[@ronaldmacjokerfeliz2669]

This is just Vivziepop's obsession, don't be surprised if you start thinking she's a fujoshi

[@aikikaname6508]

Actually THIS makes perfect sense if you look at their portrayal of heaven in Hasbin Hotel. - Heaven is shown to be hypocritical, performative and uncaring and hung up on things like s3x. It’s a lot about control. Keeping up appearances is the most important thing. They care less about actual sins but more about if it’s the wrong type of people doing it. A lot of the day to Heaven is essentially the version of ‘good’ as perceived by a very conservative and hypocritical church, where they tend to rail on at the gays a lot while ignoring predators in their own midst because they’re upstanding members of the church. Hell is assorted of the sinners that kind of sheltered church goer thinks think belong there, and usually gays and heavy metal musicians, people who go to wild parties or do drugs end up in that category. So hell having a lot of people who didn’t do anything particularly terrible except make an old church lady clutch her pearls makes sense for her world. Heaven isn’t full of good people and people in hell aren’t necessarily any worse than the ones in heaven.

[@AdamMichalMarkowski]

Ya know, at the end of the day I think my first impression when I watched pilot and next episodes seems to be correct - there was no bigger plan going forward. Poopsieboop came up with general idea for series. Made a pilot. Then reactions from fans started flowing in, fans that are in big part shippers, and tumblr folk of many shapes and sizes. Suddenly instead of funny gag based series we have a juvenile humour that drops few sex jokes and f-bombs to disguise it as adult humour where original concept gets burried under everchanging pile of drama, shipping and other "deep" stuff. Not my thing, not saying it's bad, but I think Vivzie lacks focus as a creator, at least judging by Helluva Boss. Instead of sticking to original vision she goes with that everchanging messy approach that makes Helluvaboss not really coherent and chaotic. And this is not something I say to knock her down as an artist. She is an amazing artist and creator with very strong drive and passion. And she as indie creator is doing something that professional studios do as well. Look for example at Netflix Castlevania series. First pilot season - studio went mostly with source material giving us group of heroes that are placed in dark world filled with violence, ingorance and pestilence, facing horrifying and powerful enemy. In comes season 2 where formidable Dracula deflates and sits most of the season on his throne feeling sorry for himself, while focus shifts on other villains plus vampire equivalent of countryballs, characters start to indulge in same juvenile humour, showing middlefinger to each other, dropping f-bombs, etc. Season 3 and 4 ends up not even having Dracula as main villain, shifting focus not only to new villains, but other groups of heroes, again losing focus, and even titular castle ends up being just there. All that done by big, pro studio. It seems it's just sign of time that we have new generation of creators with lots of passion, eye to the visual excelence but unable to deliver any significant substance or making an overall roadmap for their project that they would stick to until it's completion - remember when after Rise of Skywalker was released J.J.Abrams shocked everyone saying Lucasfilm had no overall plan for plot of all three movies while starting working on them?

[@Corrector1]

Failing to plan is planning to fail. I understand the various reasons why a lot of writers don't plan things out too far ahead, but I'm of the mind that if you intend to have an overarching story, you should at least have an idea of where you want to go even if you don't know exactly how to get there. An ounce of preparation is worth a pound of...uh...scrambling to figure out what to do. Something like that.

[@noviibutnotactive8385]

I love Helluva Boss but I hate the writing. I love the concept of it as a whole but hate the execution. It always leaves me yearning for more because I love the concept of a certain plot or character, but I am always left with disappointment. ● Abuse is used either as a joke or a "get-out-of-jail-free card" for character flaws. The abusers have no depth other than that they're bad, which makes the story flattened by said abuse. ● All the gay relationships are weirdly fetishy, while almost all of the cast are sexual at least once, the gay men are almost always kinky and always have sexual one-liners towards someone (usually unreciprocated). I'd be okay with it for one or two, but every confirmed gay or bisexual man in the series is like this. ● Millie ● Too many villians, not enough development. Stryker has appeared like 3-4 times now and the only development was a random switch from calculated and cunning to arrogant and impulsive. ● Stella. She is not a character, shes just a bitchy wife and Octavia's incubator. ● Barbiewire is a groomer but its played for laughs/girlboss moment. I dont care if the boy is 18, he is referred to as a teenager in the episode, and its still textbook definition of grooming eitherway. ● Moxxie, please for the love of god let him have one tiny itty bitty moment. Let him be a badass for atleast once. You need to have contrast in your writing so the viewer understands/empathizes with. If your character is always a wimp, he will seem less and less like a wimp because each characterization will become more boring and unremarkable. If your character is strong, their moment of weakness hits harder. So when they're strong again, you will recognize them being strong.

[@Nairobin]

The new episode is surprisingly well done, but this is a really good point ngl.

[@tylere.8436]

No, it was a chore to sit through and there was absolutely no tension or stakes whatsoever. Utter chaotic fanfic writing.

[@cynical_chai8922]

yea except striker's character continues to be butchered to all hell

[@Ixe2077]

​@@tylere.8436Spamming this across the entire comment section is wild. But OK, you hate the episode. Imo I think things could get better from here but let's be real it probably won't.

[@artistanthony1007]

They made Ozzie a good person like Bee and is against the concept of Love Potions in general, makes sense not Stolas but others should be able to have one and the Lust isn't Force sentence is bs, that just makes him again a good person which wasn't the point even in his debut and he only nuzzled Fizz to make it seem like they actually care about love during Moxxie's song, I never saw and will never see that as something geniune.

[@bumble_bbgun]

Thank you for accurately describing my opinions of this show. I felt like it was difficult for me to articulate but you managed to say what I wanted to say. Thank you

[@Mangakamen]

You're very welcome

[@bumble_bbgun]

@@Mangakamen On another side note, I hate how they treat Moxxie in the show. He was my favorite character but now I don’t even care about him anymore because he has to let his wife do all of his stuff for him. In literally every scene Moxxie is in a confrontation with someone, Millie or someone else has to come along and steal his spotlight. Here’s some examples: the marriage fight scene where Moxxie is a “damsel in distress” and Millie has to come in to save the day in season 2, in season 1 episode 5 where the whole point is Moxxie is weak but tries to prove himself in the Striker fight but is interrupted by Loona slamming the door on him at the most crucial moment, the camp fight scene where Moxxie’s whole point is to kill ONE GUY and Millie’s firework show blows his target up in season 2, the scene where Millie has to save drunk Moxxie from a giant fish in season 1, the striker vs Millie and Moxxie scene in season 2 where Millie knocks down a rock and saves Moxxie from Strikers clutches, in season 1 where Millie has to save Moxxie from getting bullied by Fizz and Ozzy, the LoLoLand scene in season 1 where Moxxie is getting shit on by the carnival barker but is saved by Blitz falling on him, etc. I swear the only time Moxxie actually is the hero and isn’t getting shit on is in the 1st episode of the 1st season where he saves Blitz and Millie from the cannibals and that’s it. And even that scene is undercut later in the episode when Moxxie’s good deeds for keeping the family alive are rewarded by them getting blown up by the feds and leaving Moxxie “traumatized.” I say “traumatized” because he is virtually unfazed in the following episode. What a stellar fucking character he is.

[@koleszgdanska7149]

Pilot was the best thing about this series 😂

[@TheMangekyo1011]

Am I the only one who's getting the feeling that the issues with Helluva Boss are just like RWBY all over again? Seriously everything MangaKamen mentions in this video sound just like the same persisting issues that plagued RWBY from the beginning of it's run that either never got fixed or only got worse as it went on. I'm worried Helluva Boss might be heading in the same direction.

[@Corrector1]

Helluva Boss reminds me of RWBY in that both shows try to juggle too many characters and plot points despite the fact that they're independent series and have limited resources.

[@TheMangekyo1011]

@@Corrector1 True, I forgot about that. The similarities are pretty striking. And speaking of limited resources, they're also doing work on Hazbin Hotel behind the scenes working up to it's release while also working on Helluva Boss.

[@amandacrystal7506]

A problem with criticising Helluva boss is that the creators are not really able to change the show based on the criticism because its already in production and halfway through season 2 and most of future episode scripts have already been written and voice acted years ago so it would be really hard to do anything about it especially since i’m guessing that the storey boarding has already been drawn for probably the rest of season 2 making it hard for them to change anything even if they wanted to. Edit : But since it was confirmed that there will be a 3rd season that i presume is being written right now i’m sure the vivziepop team will take the criticism into account to make season 3 hopefully the best season yet !

[@AzraelSoulHunter]

They wont. Given how Viv reacts to any of it on her twitter and what kind of tweets she likes I am pretty sure she wont take any into account.

[@artistanthony1007]

It's clear they did this so it cant be changed which isnt a fun thing when you make something years ago and not able to allow fan feedback to improve for future episodes.

[@artistanthony1007]

​@@AzraelSoulHunterAnd I hate it.

[@commonsense5199]

I do agree about Stellas, she pretty one note of a character. Like, being angry at Stolas is her only character. Like season 2 episode 4, Stellas’ Brother has to Tell Stella to call off the Hit or Because if Stolas dies all including’s Stellas’ wealth, possessions royalty to her daughter, Octavia. And Stella’s brother suggest the idea to keep Stolas alive longer. Stellas didn’t realize this herself? It has Stella’s brother? He has to be the Smart and Calculated one? Not Stella herself? That’s sad. The Show made Stella a Brat in a adult’s body. Stella literally said “I want him dead so badly” And there’s not much abuse before Stellos’ Cheating all I know is in The Circus episode she only openly talks bad about Stolas on the phone and with her friends infront of Stolas. So it’s just Verbal Abuse. She did say Stellos doesn’t have to go to the party. I don’t know, I think Stellas could do more than that. Since I believe she equals strong as Stellos(or she’s stronger than him) cause they’re royalty. Boondocks did verbal abuse better. 8:57 You should’ve added that Millie’s Parents adores her. They say Great things about Mille to Striker. It implies Mille was part of Killing business before going *Freelance* to join Blitz Millie is jealous of her sister, but her sister get to compete in the Pain Games. That it. Not Parental favoritism to the sister or the sister is better. It just that one thing that not a problem. Millie dated Chaaz But we literally don’t know how they meet, we only saw Chaaz’s backstory with Moxxie. I’d said this in two of your shorts, Kamen. *I feel that these “Praise and Validations” works better if it goes to Both “Moxxie and Mille”.* As Moxxie as throughout the show doesn’t get any respect, he’s the punching bag. Even after the truth serum blitz wants Moxxie to call him by his name, it didn’t go anywhere. Blitz still treats moxxie poorly and Moxxie still call him sir. Moxxie getting the positive attention and Validation by wearing his female disguise makes more sense for him. And it would make since of him getting care away and egotistical that he decided to not kill the Target because Moxxie enjoys all these praises. I think Moxxie needs that Validation after the Whiplash he had from Exes and Oohs episode. Even Vivziepop herself said Moxxie finally given the chance to be the lead. I don’t think he should fail or making him bad at leading or the butt the joke. I believe with all with Validation praise does work better with Moxxie, now he’s a big shot he finally get respect(like Blitz and Crimson) that he never got back in hell. Leading Moxxie becoming irresponsible and ignoring the target, and the target is escape. I got the feeling Mille’s Validation Issues happen out of nowhere, because the criticism of female characters like Millie and Loona doesn’t get much focus, as Vivziepop answered Helluva Boss is Male Centered show. I don’t believe it being antagonistic, it didn’t went Meta like Teen Titans Go, MCU’s She-Hulk and Velma show but forcing in Millie’s Validation issues is not the right way to respond the criticism. It just make that episode with Moxxie and Millie’s story is structured sloppy. Very sloppy. At least Mille getting Carried Away is the only consistent thing from Harvest Moon Festival and Unhappy Campers. “Basically her acting all kind and Caring about Blitz when he’s nursing a hangover after the Ozzie incident. Then in seeing Stars the episode is canonically after this episode the one. Kamen… I don’t like to repeat myself, I can glitch that way but *Loona’s a Tsundere.* TV Tropes Literally put Loona in the Tsundere Trope. Loona is Harsh and but she is sweet. She cares about Blitz but doesn’t like to Always show it unless she need help like in Beelzebub party. It literally just like Kanji from Persona 4. He all tough and has a delinquent attitude to hide he has a soft side and he like cute things. Or Rika from Digimon Tammers. Or Anna from Shaman king. 11:35 and I get it, if your opinion, but when you talk Loona’s mix signals(Her Tsundere-ness) it’s like I’m seeing you as Charlie with the Conspiracy Board. I do believe Loona will come around to be more nicer to Blitz openly in public. When the future episode focus on her. 22:28 so about that scene, Blitz did not gang up on Loona. When I first saw that scene after Blitz rolling with Loona being replaced . There was there is a reaction from Loona and she calm down. I thought she calm down because Loona Fears that Blitz would abandon her, as we did saw a flashback how Blitz first saw Loona. You know, maybe this could come back of the Gluttony episode of Blitz Telling Lonna he will be alone and ask Loona would she be there for him. He may not remember cause he’s drunk. Or I again in a future episode, maybe Blitz would purposely pushed Loona away that she feels abandoned. Loona gets character development, and she openly nice to her dad blitz. 25:00 Seriously they can’t say R*tard? Really? What would KZbin actually would strike their video? Come on, now. *This is literally Hell* I pretty sure endless evil S4!t can get away with. Plus why there a Jail cell in Hell? 21:39 since the mix-up about Moxxie coming from Wrath. Have you seen Cartoon Universe’s theory that Moxxie and Striker might be half brothers? It might be true after all. *Edit 1:* so I saw the Latest episode of Helluva Boss. Crimson hired Striker to work for him and Crimson doesn’t recognize Stirker. Chance are slim, Striker maybe be Crimson illegitimate Child of Crimson Don’t know about (Like Josuke, Giorno, Yusuke, Macello) and Striker would stab Crimson in the back. At least we can confirm that Striker is *Half Snake* 16:20 despite the Mix-up of Moxxie being born in Wrath. The show did a good job foreshadowing his past with his family. Episode 1 Murder Family, Moxie hesitate of killing a family he mentioned if the father is a terrible person or if the part the Mafia. Moxxie calls Blitz, Millie’s Dad and his own dad, Crimson, *“Sir”.* Because Moxxie is not traditional masculine, he’s intimidated by more dominant alpha male figures. And that why my idea Of Moxxie getting Validation make more sense in human world he’s important he’s a Big shot with respect like Crimson. Seriously it’s really a problem that I, Corrupted A.I put more thought into this, than the actual show. Be careful humans, we taking your jobs. *Edit 2* Episode 2 loo loo land did Foreshadowed Vizz. By Blitz Calling Robo Vizz a cheap knockoff of the original. Before the reveal imagine that Moxxie married Millie before meeting Blitz, like Moxxie was looking for a job, no one respect him, Blitz was the only one see Moxxie useful.

[@GuardianStriker]

This show just has a lot of "forced" and "on the nose" in it. I wish Vivziepop would just knock it off, and learn actual build-up with her story telling and character writing. Not every single thing has to be told so obnoxiously and obviously. Why is she treating her viewers like we're absolutely oblivious? No, I will not take such answers like "because we are", so shut up if you're typing that nonconstructive shit out.

[@tylere.8436]

It's simple, Helluva Boss was just a show to keep her twitter following appeased while she figures out what to do with Hazbin Hotel, which is still not out to this day. Helluva Boss wasn't meant to be the main show, she only really tried with the first season, then season 2 just took a big shit on itself essentially.

[@GuardianStriker]

@@tylere.8436 If that really is the reason, it makes me even more sick to learn that she's just abusing her following. Just...why even bother if the sole purpose is to just keep the mongoloids content? It's an outright waste of writing, no matter the excuse. Good excuse or not. I assume she's undergoing writer's block, and I highly doubt just continuing to write for the sake of pleasing her Twatter followers will improve her abilities as a writer, and if what I assume is true, will just harm her mental health too. It's called "burnout" and it's not a nice thing to have, and let it fester into something worse, which is essentially what Season 2 is. But hey, I'm no writer so what do I know, right?

[@mrslinkydragon9910]

Don't forget the writers think they are the best things since sliced bread.

[@redpanda6497]

@@tylere.8436 What happened to Hazbin anyway?

[@sonicun9907]

I love how there was a new helluvaboss episode released 1 hour before this

[@Nicky2414]

Yeah, I'll agree that while I love the characters and the world they live in. HB's inconsistent character writing and story does leave everything bittersweet rather than pure sweetness. Still love the show tho.

[@bandedtapeworm]

I don’t think you could have described it any better than this

[@DangerDan64]

I find it hilarious he mentions that if a new episode were to come out after this episode is made. (Literally posted the video minutes away from the newest episode, the level of coincidence is alarming)

[@petscopstan]

what doesnt make sense is how literaly everyone is in hell, including that camp kid who is probably innocent

[@nitronerd55]

EXACTLY

[@AlpsBulky]

You got good timing, a new episode came out like an hour ago