Helluva Boss's Terrible Characters

[@bubblybobabubbles]

I dont understand Viv's "HB is for the guys and HH is for the gals". I dont understand. You can develop both female and male characters? Like... whats keeping you just doing one or the other? You can... do... both??

[@v3n0msp4rk]

right?? just write both as actual characters instead of "heres the characters and... sigh... the females... i guess"/"heres the characters and... sigh... the males... i guess"💀

[@D_YellowMadness]

Plus both shows have similar writing so even if they succeed in appealing to their target audiences, it'll just prove both shows could've appealed to both audiences. So what's the point?

[@ZaF4ran]

Plus in Hazbin the male characters are fleshed out. It’s just an exuse

[@bubblybobabubbles]

@@ZaF4ran YEAH you can't tell me Alastor and Angel Dust aren't gonna have character development

[@anubis7457]

@@ZaF4ranTbh you can’t say that lol, the show isn’t out yet.

[@Darksaviour]

The problem with Helluva Boss is that they need to stop focusing on Stolas and Blitz for a second so they can flesh out the others

[@Darksaviour]

@@demontorch Or it’s Gonna be like the last episode which was suppose to be about Loona and Octavia but still had like 75% screen time giving to blitz and Stolas.

[@demontorch]

@@Darksaviour only time will tell

[@supersprite6515]

Yes! I 100% agree with that statement! I'm really tired of the team constantly shoving Blitz in episodes... It makes me dislike him more.

[@supersprite6515]

@@demontorch It might just be a joke/gag as usual in the episode, and the focus might yet again be on blitz... =__=

[@demontorch]

@@supersprite6515 yeah I don’t really like blitz either

[@makingtheband990]

vivziepop talking about fanart on stream: "wait, it's all loona?" always hazbin

[@Kye_stars]

LMAO NOT ALWAYS HAZBIN

[@kat0na_cat]

Haha

[@meyeneetuks4680]

ok. I chuckled at that

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

This is way funnier than any of the jokes in Helluva Boss...

[@__the_purple_man]

Honestly people like her for.... Sertain things.......but for the people who like her for her character and understand her good👍

[@2l84me8]

The problem with Helluva Boss is that it completely undermined itself within 2 years. It was supposed to be a dark comedy about an assassin business in hell that was fueled by the shaky relationship of the taboo pairing of a lowly Imp and a literal prince. Now the characters have mostly been cast aside so that Blitz and Stolas can be a fanfic version of their former selves. It really feels like the writers are just out of ideas by this point and it’s hurting the other characters by not fleshing them out and the pacing and tone is all over the place.

[@error-try-again-later]

I just don't get _how_ the writers are out of ideas when the concept of "hitmen in hell" lends itself so well to episodic B plots.

[@Neroba]

You so right, they drop the hit men idea right away we just got 3 episodes plus the pilot fully focus on it the rest sudenly switched up into pure shipping fanfiction fesr and family lore the fact we don't know nothing about the cherubs anymore it's insane. Also why do they over use striker so much it's beyond me he went from genuine villain to the lamest plot point enemy.

[@cheesemuffin8129]

I completely forgot they're hitmen

[@kikiweyo14]

Please, someone tell that to Vivzie! I wanted a dark comedy about demon hitmen, like Vivienne promised, but I got typical angsty gay fanfic on Wattpad from 2016 instead. I already got sick of Stolitz, because it was supposed to be a side comedy line about "being in bed with rich guy who has something they need for business". But somehow Stolas fell in love with Blitz, when he was shown as a horny disaster for first three episodes (+ pilot) and honestly it would be much better if he stayed like this.

[@torna2508]

​@@NerobaYeah I was hoping that season 2 was gonna be like the first half of season 1 but longer. Instead we got... This.

[@devilheartcandy]

The females in the series have been done so dirty ngl Millie: Bland and lacks a small arc Loona: A huge bitch Verosika: Has nuance but is barely seen and insisted on being “the bitch” Octavia: No issue but there’s not much to say Stella: Verbally abusive and any nuance is thrown out for woobifying Stolas Update: So S2E3 was a while back and yeah they NEVER explained Millie’s story with Chaz (LIKE WHYYY-) which kinda proves my point. I guess it’s an improvement but Millie only gets one moment to shine and that’s STILL motivated by Moxxie like always. Update to Update: S1E8 finally dropped and the fucking queen of GLUTTONY herself lost to BLITZO in a beer drinking match. Like- BRUH… it doesn’t even last long

[@veepersjeepers]

i'm starting to come to the conclusion that the things i originally saw in this show weren't enough to save it from being really poor character wise.

[@devilheartcandy]

@@veepersjeepers I swear, Verosika being in the same floor as Blitz was forgotten about. I can’t remember if it was temporary but if it was permanent then they missed out on some really good conflict & interactions

[@veepersjeepers]

@@devilheartcandy that's part of my problem, it has fantastic opportunities with no follow through. every expectation i have for the show gets doused by something mediocre i feel like wasn't what was promised from the exciting premise.

[@wiwitutsu2175]

@@devilheartcandy wasted potential

[@meloquito]

Well Stella is an abuser ofc she's done dirty but I agree on the others.

[@GuardianStriker]

Honestly, the only way we're going to get some form of "understanding" with these characters, is if Vivzie stops focusing so much on Stolas and Blitz, and dedicates at least one episode to one of the side characters. There's so many questions, that a full on episode is possibly the only way we're going to get answers.

[@helion_ut]

When you actually think about it Stolitz isn't as extremely overrepresented as it seems, it's just... memorable. I mean, in episode 1 Stolas and Blitz did "the deal" with no other interactions at all, they weren't the focus. In episode 2 their relationship was not important at all imo, Blitzo just tagged along because he is the main character and they made a few random jokes. Episode 3 has basically no Stolas, if I remember correctly. Same with episode 4. Episode 5 does have Blitzo and Stolas in it, but apart from exchanging a bit of funky dialogue they didn't do anything, Stolasnwas fairly unimportant and more of a plot device in this episode- In episode 6 we had this STRONG scene at the end with the kiss, but apart from the very end when Stolas saved the group Stolas wasn't important at all. I wouldn't call it a Stolitz episode just for that one minute in the end. Episode 7... yeah, Stolitz episode- S2 E1 is another Stolitz one. Maybe it's just because they all came out at the same time? S2 E2 had Stolas and Blitz in it and their relationship was slightly more important than usual, but I feel like they weren't particularly important in any way, the daughters were the stars of the show-

[@raylenn4444]

@@helion_ut you feel this way but it's bot the case

[@helion_ut]

@@raylenn4444 Wdym it's both the case? Sure, for some people 1 second of Stolitz is too much Stolitz, perception and all, but you can't just claim "It has too much Stolitz, the whole series is JUST Stolitz", when that clearly isn't the case.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@helion_ut I think the problem is we got 3 Stolitz-heavy episodes back to back and the rest of the cast has been shoved to the side to accomidate them.

[@helion_ut]

@@PlanetZoidstar I wouldn't say 3, it was two. The newest episode really wasn't about Stolitz, it had more Stolitz in it than usually, but I didn't feel like that was the focus at all. They just interacted with each other, but there was no real story, they simply established a sort of new relationship between in each other in which Stolas has more sass than previously and that's it. The daughters had the spotlight- Two episodes focusing on a relationship between two characters isn't that hell of a lot. Ozzie's was more focused on Blitzo and The Circus more on Stolas, so I don't feel like it's completely unreasonable. It FEELS like the series is just Stolitz just because those Stolitz moments (and the two episodes) are hella STRONG. You see people calling Truth Seekers a Stolitz episodes even though Stolas appeared right at the end, saving the group and had this damn lewd kiss with Blitzo. Why do people still call it a Stolitz episode despite the "Stolitz moment" not even lasting a minute? Because it was memorable.

[@SnugWugs137]

It's sad that the only character in both Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel I can care about and remember the name of is Moxxie, because he's the only character to have depth and a personality that can't be summed up to "asshole".

[@Misto8990]

The fact all characters can be summed up as assholes was the thing that made me drop helluva boss in like 7 episodes

[@no-one...186]

How abt Millie?

[@SnugWugs137]

@@no-one...186 Eh, she barely gets included, but her hyper aggression and tendency to escalate situations edges her out.

[@danielramsey6141]

@@SnugWugs137 Still, Millie is the only other character that isn’t an Asshole and actually defends Moxxie whenever shit goes down. But she clearly isn’t perfect.

[@colorbar.s]

in what world is he the only character with depth LMAOOO

[@ConcealedWeaponry]

The hilarious thing is, if Loona was ugly, the majority of her fanbase would be decimated.

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

How could you make a furry demon girl ugly though? Isn't that almost impossible?

[@ConcealedWeaponry]

@Noelle_Holiday Literally just give her a few facial imperfections and make her overweight, and you've got it.

[@dumbvillage9253]

@@ConcealedWeaponry you know just how many furries have fat fetish? It won't do much.

[@humansadness3749]

@@dumbvillage9253the amount of people who would hate on her would be way more though

[@inactive_ina]

@@ConcealedWeaponry i mean implying that either of those things are inherently ugly is kinda skull

[@MrEd-qc7vr]

What should have happened with loona is: Blitz hugs her, Loona smiles without him noticing, then remembering she's mad at him and THEN kick to the groin!

[@rat-a-tat-tat_]

Its such a slight change that would make a big improvement

[@codafett]

My problem is that we're expected to feel sorry for Loona and Blitzo because of their bad pasts but...they are two of the most unlikable assholes I've ever seen in a cartoon. And you can only hide behind the childhood trauma excuse for so long, after a while it's just unacceptable to expect the audience to be okay with their behavior.

[@superstarultra28]

This dude is spitting facts.

[@cosmok-1367]

At least with Bojack Horseman, when a character has a bad past, it's not an excuse for their behavior. Sure, Bojack's upbringing gives reason for his actions, but the show never excuses him and he gets consequences! To me, Bojack is peak adult media, it's both hilarious but knows when to take itself seriously and it manages to not sugarcoat traumatic topics and adds some nuance to them. Hellva Boss is always sex joke after sex joke, any serious moments they do have don't last long and get interrupted with inappropriate banter. And characters that are supposed to be unlikeable like Blitz and Stolas end up getting passes for their terrible deeds because they had "bad childhood, and they can fix each other by being in a relationship". The fact that Viv had to assistant Stella's character by reducing her to an abusive one-dimensional bitch just to soften Stola's character shows how lazy and immature her writing is.

[@devilheartcandy]

I don’t mind Blitzo being an asshole (at least in Season 1) because it’s obvious you’re not suppose to condone him. But for Loona it’s more of “well Blitz hurt her so it’s fine if she wants to kick his nuts”. Kinda like how fans of a show/book would justify villains for their actions because their mom died or something, but here it’s the authors which is bad writing imo.

[@JinxTheloosecanon-tw7sr]

Nah, Peter Griffin or CARTMEN take the biggest cartoon asshole contest!Blitz and Loona are fully justified in their actions!

[@devilheartcandy]

@@JinxTheloosecanon-tw7sr I think you just proved their point my dude

[@bluesherbet2741]

I think they are doing Octavia the most dirty out of all. Every scene I see with her it feels like it's just trying to flesh out Stolas, Blitz or both (excluding the scene with her and Loona in Seeing Stars along with the first scene showing her in the present) and every episode focused on her so far has given every other character (especially Stolas and Blitz) way more screen time than her. The scene with younger Octavia and Stolas is heartwarming but it seems like they're just trying to make Stolas more human by showing him to be a good father. The entire Loo Loo Land episode was (in my expectations) supposed to be about her and Stolas spending time together but instead 75% of it was Blitz and Stolas with 20% being Moxie and Millie and only 5% screen time actually showing Octavia. The same goes with the Seeing Stars except thankfully the 5% screen time has been pushed to 15%, still lesser than that of every other character (especially Stolas and Blitz) even though the episode was supposed to focus on her (and Loona). The thing I hate the most is that it really seems like they're trying hard to give Stolas a pass for his shi**y decisions and parenting. Her crying scenes don't even matter, she'll cry, Stolas will say "Omg I'm so sorry my lovely tiny owlet" or someone else will say "He's trying for you give him a chance" and Stolas will say his thing afterwards, they'll patch things together and Stolas will go back to flirting with Blitz rather than actually trying to give his daughter even a little attention.

[@no-one...186]

The part where you said Stolas would go back to flirting with Blitz after Octavia forgave him got me 💀 he would totally would do that. And just think for a moment, imagine knowing your dad cheated on your mom with someone, and then took you to an amusement park WITH THE PERSON HE WAS CHEATING WITH?

[@bluesherbet2741]

@@no-one...186 I would want to give him a Loonastyle groin kick but I obviously couldn't. Octavia has godly patience.

[@redpanda6497]

@@bluesherbet2741 At least he would deserve's Octavia's anger. I still don't get what did Blitz do to get beat up by Loona. He's just a bit overprotective.

[@gisi5276]

@@redpanda6497 and loona never hit him before (maybe a push when he got too close for her comfort) so thats a character break and the only thing he did was asking her to be a bit nicer

[@roseyborealis2690]

THIS, THIS is what I'M talking about I also think Stella was written like that to make stolla behavior less egregious. Yes, she can be a bitch, but Stollas should have been there for his daughter, or at least. Focus on other things.

[@paintingofacat]

wish millie was allowed to be her own character without focusing solely on her husband. female characters can and should be shown to be able to stand alone w/o the presence of a man

[@cakefrosting6451]

Like Jessica Rabbit, like geez we had one so far back but yet in spite of having such an icon to kind of understand how to make a female character that still loves their husband lots but can stand alone, Millie is constantly relegated as “Moxxie’s wife”

[@dataexpunged93N15]

Its fine to an extent, but they'd really benefit from an episode where Millie has to go on a trip with her folks alone or a business trip or something.

[@bigmonkey1254]

They can be. Yes, I'm disappointed cause I enjoyed Millie's presence, but plenty of female characters stand alone *well*.

[@danielavanilla4331]

She’s waaaay too good for Moxxie anyways. He’s so pathetic it’s no wonder why they made Loona bully him lol.

[@hostomelhorsehoarder]

Skill issue

[@jayceallen6530]

Millie and loona are really the only characters i really think need some proper development, maybe moxxie but we still know a lot about him compared to millie Bonus: I know she’s supposed to be the bad guy but I feel like they made stella have an orgin of “always being bad” because they didn’t wanna make her look somewhat justified in order to prop up stolas more.

[@Air_Serpent]

Moxxie is literally gonna get a new episode focused on himself, and he's had three others.

[@jayceallen6530]

@@Air_Serpent yeah but i was mostly saying proper character development rather than just knowing his key character traits yk

[@TeenWithACarrotIDK]

@@Air_Serpent stop using the work “literally.” Doesn’t reinforce your statements, and it’s marginally annoying.

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

@@TeenWithACarrotIDK Meh. Why would anyone care about other people using the word "literally".

[@frid7434]

@@TeenWithACarrotIDK maybe start working on your spelling before criticizing people on their grammar? just a thought

[@Clove_927]

Why are the writers so bad at making chracthers with a uterus Edit:(Im afab stop saying it's offensive to not say female,uterus is funnier than saying female, and also, thanks for the likes!)

[@starfulmemory]

this is one of the funniest sentences ive ever read in my life

[@yeayeayeah933]

Just say female lmaooo

[@hervygervy8530]

Bruh why did you have to say it like that 😭

[@Clove_927]

@Hervy Gervy I mean it's true

[@Clove_927]

@yeah well female is a pretty big term and considering that Sallie mae is written better in her 20 seconds of screen time then millie is I think it's a fair statement that if a chracther has a uterus their getting the short end of the writing stick

[@avivastudios2311]

There are four main characters in this show. They had a whole season to flesh them out. Their season was 8 episodes long. There's no excuses for Millie and Loona's lack of plot relevance. I'm sure that's enough time for all of them to figure out what their role and full identity is.

[@FawnMidnight]

My main problem with Loonas design is that the moment i saw her for the first time i immediately thought "thats a 13 year olds middle school OC" like, ive seen her before, not her exactly im not saying her design was copied, but it isnt unique. She looks just like all the edgy emo mary sue OCs kids would make (in this case furry ones) and thats all i can see when i look at her.

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

I wouldn't be lying if she only exists for the sake of being furry bait material and nothing else. Go ahead, tell me if her design wasn’t intentionally made to be sexual or anything like that.

[@Subsario]

Mate thats what im saaaaaaaying Shes literal furry bait bruh She waa designed to make nerdy ahh teenagers go crazy and watch their shit show

[@devilheartcandy]

Not surprised considering Viv always makes Rule of Cool designs and then justifies them with lore that doesn’t match up. I can’t get behind the rooster motif with Ozzie and the radio demon overlord thing with Alastor. Hell he was actually made in middle school but she never bothered fixing his hair?

[@Cepillin2099]

that also applies to literally every character from the series lmao

[@AutumnOddity]

You put my feelings into wordsssss

[@justzombie7594]

Stolas is an example of where a show created a character who is truly an asshole, but a show tries its best to deny that he's an asshole instead of resolve it.

[@ChocomelJuice]

The issue with Loona and Millie can be easily explained actually. I don't remember where they said it but it was explained that when Vivzie thought about helluva boss characters and stuff when it was just about to be fleshed out into it's own thing Millie and Loona didn't exist. They were added later to fill up the i.m.p. office. It is a real shame that it REALLY shows, ngl im kinda disappointed that this is the case, hope they give them more character, heck, just an episode JUST with Loona and Millie would be great

[@Mangakamen]

I believe you, but I'd like a source - that might be fun to talk about in a future video.

[@countgoopoo9466]

@@Mangakamen the source is it came to them in a dream

[@avivastudios2311]

This is why you can't rush things. Everything has to be thought through.

[@cake_9510]

They're gonna give them focused episodes in season 2

[@bluesherbet2741]

"That's a nice argument senator, but why don't you back it up with a *source?"*

[@Offthehookfan2009]

ik stella is bad, but i feel like they made her worse as the episodes progressed just to like make stolas better. yes she hired a hitman for him, and she is abusive but like if you go back to the pilot and the first few episodes she IS BAD BUT SHE ISNT AS BAD. its like they wnat you to know that stolas needs blitz because stella is a piece of crap. ik she is, but if they couldve just left it as, " oh stella hates stolas cuz she slept with an imp," is fine. but like its just been getting progressively worse, yes ik shes is supposed to be an antagonist but like its like shes only there to make stolas seem way good then bad. BUT STOLAS SUCKS AS A FATHER. mostly in the loo loo land episode he invites octavia to go there and distract her from his and stella's divorce but literally flirts with blitz almost the entire episode. and yk where blitz was abt to die in that episode with the humans who wnated to prove devils were real, but then he went all like devil mode, why didnt he do that for his duaghter? no no no, he goes into a human disguise and runs around , lollygagging with blitz. BUT GIVES TWO FUCKS ABT IF HUMANS LITERALLY TRYING TO PROVE DEMONS ARE REAL SEES HIM. the show tries to make you think stolas is good, he has done nothing bad, you should be rooting for him. but no i hated stolas from day one, he is like super fucking annoying, and the way the show butters him up is like fucking shitty.

[@melonsauce1474]

She hated him from the beginning.

[@straawberryfieldsforever]

Instead of making their mariage a fall out they made her an always angry, violent abusive FORCED wife and oh Stolas was abused its ok for him to cheat. Biggest L seriously

[@cringegirlartist1164]

@@straawberryfieldsforever they could have added character to Stella and still make the villain that they wanted but they chose the lazy route

[@_BubblGum_]

thank you for this 🙏

[@jeremyallen5974]

Bit extreme for her to jump right to hiring a hitman to paint the walls with his brains for cheating on her, innit? A competent writer would have had build up to it instead of going from her screeching at him in episode two to her wanting to fucking end him not even TWO EPISODES LATER.

[@emilytheartist2915]

The way I feel about Viv's work: Great designs, awful execution. (also when you asked "Who Is Loona and why is she like this?" I got an ad talking about adhd lol)

[@videogamehunter820]

Absolutely fucking TRUE! Helluva Boss was set up as a silly action comedy side series that was about asshole characters in an asshole world (kind of like Seinfeld or It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia). But Viv screwed it up by making it into a overly emotional melodrama with no good setup. When your characters are set up as assassins, assholes, and sexual deviants that we're suddenly supposed to find sympathetic, it doesn't work. I find the Blitzo/Stolis part to be the worst aspect of the series b/c they are not sympathetic. Any attempts by Viv to make them sympathetic is upstaged by their past actions. If it was a silly comedy, these characters would work. But not as a heart felt drama. Like you said, Viv is a master at character designs, animation, and personalities (initially). But when it comes to writing, she is unfocused, sappy, and overly ambitious. Poor execution.

[@dokuganryu1565]

​@@videogamehunter820Basically, she needs to stop taking it so seriously.

[@videogamehunter820]

@@dokuganryu1565 Right on, my friend. With so many of the characters who have daddy issues, I think Viv is unintentionally telling us something.

[@bardssinisterstories2607]

Let's examine the female cast (only the ones who appear in more than one episode and who are presumably important) to see all of what they do and accomplish in the story: Millie: Show's resident John Actionscene, primarily does the fighting, Moxxie's wife, energetic, has no episodes of her own Loona: Blitz's daughter, rarely appears alongside the main cast, generally very angsty and mean, characterized inconsistently, has one episode of her own Stella: Awful no good mean bitch lady who exists to make Stolas' life miserable. Was presumably born evil and continues to be evil. Serves solely as an obstacle to her husband at all times Octavia: Miserable teenager whose life is made miserable by both of her parents in equal part, has two episodes dedicated to her despite not being a main character and also serves as the show's resident emotional punching bag. Verosika: Bad bitch lady who Blitz completely screwed over and who rightfully torments him after the fact, presumably had her heart broken by Blitz, is portrayed as a villain by the plot despite actually being more sympathetic than the protagonist in this situation, presumably will be important later maybe possibly This is not very cash money as we say in the critique world. Compared to the male cast, the female cast is pretty pitiful, with only like two of them getting any real exploration and only one of those two being somewhat consistently well written. They seriously need to give the ladies some actual love. It's a mess tbh

[@RandoSando.]

I love how one of your throwaway lines was actually correct. Stolas is an idiot who can't read social cues due to the neglect from his father, not being allowed to express himself, and being raised secluded from society due to his status.

[@kat0na_cat]

Yep, this was explained in a recent episode

[@pumfeethermodynamics3286]

Well he is an idiot but he cares about people.

[@ericquiabazza2608]

Not only that bu also his personality Manga and several people asume he is just a manipulative rich kid. What the "not toxic stans" and other get is that Stolas is still a child at heart, a child teach to be a glorified king all his life. Yet he only wanted conpanionship and adventure to quench his curiosity. That is why this IS a toxic relationship, BUT NOT by intention. Stolas has NEVER trethen blitzo with taking the book, the finale + the last mention here prove it, They broke Up HARD yet Blitzo HAS THE BOOK. Stolas dosnt care about it, the only time he wanted it he call in Advance to blitzo and expres that is for Fulfilling his duties. Stilas wants it to be more than a Lie, (Lone prince your power is frail). At worst stolas is kinda sofocating and intense, yet still harmless The mayor problem is blitzo, he has too much trust issues, so for him this IS ONLY A DEAL, he fuck the owl and gets the book and WANTS to keep it that way As we saw Stolas has blitzo in a golden chain, but this is ONLY on Blitzo Imagination, he thinks that trusting stolas will set him in a trap AGAIN. Meaning you have a loner to YEARN companionship and will use Sex (because he thinks is the only thing blitzo wants, not somethig emotional) to get it, while Blitzo CANT comite to any relationship and treat stolas as a buisness exchange, an ANNOYING buissnes exchange. Some part i have seen from the insta is that Stolas and blitz have dates like movies at blitzo's house or parties, and flirt romanticly with each other, yet blitzo always try to keep it at arm's lenght. So is this relationship of 2 broken people that goes NOWHERE until at least 1 of them adress their issues.

[@rustyshackleford234]

Bro is a rich Chris Chan lmao

[@rustyshackleford234]

@@Jdudec367 -“idiot who can’t read social cues” -“due to the neglect from his father” -“raised secluded from society”

[@calamaria9221]

Helluva Boss really has a problem with having episodes that are set up to be a specific character's episode, but then dedicating it to a different character and ruining the potential the episode had. Vivzie is good at designing characters and world building, but man is she (and the other writers) bad at writing and consistency.

[@jeremyallen5974]

She's good at world building? Are you retarded? Ninety percent of the 'world building' comes from handwave Twitter threads and the other ten percent revolves around fan theories used to fill in the mile long chasms in the world's logic

[@emilytheartist2915]

Also I think the problem with Stolitz is that they're sending mixed messages. Like is it suppose to be an endgame ship or something that the characters have to overcome.

[@randaljaded]

thats the entire point of the arc lmao how did that go over your head

[@Opalhibiscus]

It’s just a plot tumor and was rapey from the start

[@flintfoster8010]

I think it's about them overcoming their fears about love, Blitzo is convinced that Stolas couldn't possibly love him and Stolas needs to learn that he should focus in the people he loves and not the woman he hates

[@dokuganryu1565]

My same thoughts. It's like they are trying to tell you they're awful for each other but also the perfect match?

[@iamperish]

A show formerly promoted as an episodic cast driven show somehow turned into a melodramatic relationship piece with hints of comedy. My issues isn't the material itself but rather the pace that it's coming out. While each episode takes months to produce and release, therefore letting the audience hold the weight of revelations and suspense, rewatching everything back to back really shows how quickly this show shifted from a comedy to forcing the audience to endure romantic issues between two characters I personally don't like too much. If the show had taken it's time and slowly introduced these more plot heavy elements like shows such as Regular Show, Adventure Time, and Steven Universe did, then my attitude would be wholly different. And yes I know those shows had years upon years of build up with large studios and teams but all in all Helluva Boss suffers from becoming too heavy too fast.

[@redactedoktor]

That's the thing, it's not too fast, and that's somewhat of a problem. Each episode takes months to come out, and so people have a lot of time to digest, and so things really don't happen quickly, and you get the worst of both worlds. This isn't really a fault of the studio, they're an indie studio who makes the majority of their money off of merch and have to take a lot of time voice acting and animating. The writers are pressured for each episode to be impactful because of how long it takes to make them, and the writers can't work out the story while the animators are animating it, it's a big mess. I tell you what, if they had more resources and the writers could afford to take their time and episodes were ready to come out quicker, none of these problems would occur, because having an episode a month would highlight the sharp tonal shift, and they wouldn't go for those writing decisions. Helluva Boss' biggest struggle is this time discrepancy between each episode, and anymore time lost not being affordable because of it's limited revenue and smaller team, leading to these writing decisions being made that hurt the show and its characters. It can't be fast, and so things in the show have to happen faster. You can't have 10 ten minute episodes of silly nonsense and subtle characterization and building the groundwork for themes that'll become important later, because you're looking at an entire year and a half of development or more with those 10 episodes, just in production, let alone actually writing the characters and their dialogue. And so, is the problem with making an independent show, it's a lot more work for a lot less reward, and the issue of time cannot be compensated for, even by bigger productions. It all takes lots of time, time that they can afford, but it takes a fee nonetheless. Their writing issues stem from the issue of time. Episodes take months to come out, so they can't make proper pacing between the episodes without dedicating a large chunk of their life to it that may not even be worth it. That's the problem with Helluva Boss. THE problem, the one that causes all the symptoms of poor writing decisions, too much work, and too little time, even with months to prepare, because you have to write the script first, and you can't go back on it, because that takes up even more time and invalidates the work of story board artists and animators who were working with an older script, something an indie studio cannot afford. And they can't take too much time writing because that's time spent on top of animation. There pie has limited time in the oven that they can't waste properly folding it, and it still takes so long, and even 10% through baking, you can't go back on what you put in there or add something new, and fans are hungry. It's a problem that can't be avoided, but one I believe they are trying very hard to fix, because the battle of an indie studio is an uphill one, where you're acquiring funding and workers, while your working, and have no proper time to set up, and you have to work so much harder. It's a miracle the animation is so high quality, and complaining to me is just beating the working horse. Solutions will not come from fans until they start donating in truck loads and workforces, something I doubt people are going to do, and so the solution has to come from inside the studio, and it's going to take a lot of time. They're release some bad episodes, but they're getting better and trying to work things out. We don't see the time and work in the kitchen, we just consume what's given, and no amount of criticism will solve any of the issues presented, because it's all production issues. The writers are competent, they just don't have time, because that time is needed for the animators, unless you want to wait 6 _more_ months, because they will not publish an episode with below average animation. And again, they're already buying themselves as much time as they can, there's nothing that can be done until they either get better than the award winning animators and writers of history, or get double their resources, and so only so progress is going to be made. It's somewhat sad that there's nothing any one person can do to change this, they're already doing the best they possibly can, and there just isn't a single thing any of us can do about it. It's quite depressing really, but it's the hard fought and hardly worth it long battle of an indie studio with an audience of millions. Time and money. They're always _the_ issue, but time and money are even more of an issue with Helluva Boss than anything else I've seen, except maybe Silksong, because it also has millions of people waiting for it, and an indie studio behind it, and they both take a lot of time to make, but an episodic show has to come release in pieces faster than a game all at once, which lead to plenty of unique issues in the final product. And just like Silksong, there's nothing we can do to make it come out faster, and there's nothing we can do to make it better, just hope at some point, they either catch lightning in a bottle, or are given a lightning storm of opportunities their bottle can't possibly miss. I did not mean for this to be so long. Yeah it's all excuses for Spindlehorse, but what else can they possibly do?

[@providence1517]

Exactly my biggest issue with the series. Vivzie promised this was going to be a light hearted show and Hazbin Hotel was the heavy stuff. This is not The Office. It's Bojack Horseman. And I hate Bojack Horseman.

[@redpanda6497]

@@providence1517 That show is good. Just you know, it made sense for it to be character heavy. It came out of the nowhere in Helluva boss and it wasn't really well made.

[@kat0na_cat]

@@redactedoktor legit a whole essay

[@redactedoktor]

@@redpanda6497 And they’re going back and forth on it, which makes it somewhat less weird, but also adds a new dimension of not-right-ness to it, and the writing is doing a lot of heavy lifting and tore one of its muscles earlier.

[@DavesGroovesandCreations]

At this point we can pray that Hazbin Hotel hopefully does not continue this trend of ignoring the character development and important moments of main female characters once it premieres. If it repeats these exact same flaws, the backlash and outcries could potentially be way worse than the criticism for Helluva Boss.

[@MrSpartan993]

Yup. People are already sick of it NOW with this show. You think they’ll have any patience left for the exact same shit in the exact same universe made by the exact same person?

[@N3rdzgummyclusterz]

Saw the trailer, it's 100% gonna be like that

[@error-try-again-later]

Hopefully A24 can reign in Viv's sadboi addiction lmao

[@merlumili]

welp, guess not

[@a_naotenhonome780]

Well i have news for you

[@jaywerner8415]

Pity the "Seeing Stars" episode is so all over the place (now that the "honeymoon" has worn off and criticism analyzed) outside of Loona and Octavia's chit chat. Seriously WHAT THE F where Moxxie and Millie DOING IN THAT EPISODE?! It would have added some screen time to the others at least. Loona beating the SHIT out of Blitz at the start still feels wrong somehow, although the kick to the balls was kinda deserved (and could have been done differently). Like your suggestion for how the episode went sounded grate. At least change it AFTER Loona, Blitz and Stolas come to LA and go "this isn't much different then hell" Then Loona tracks down Octavia but instead of bringing her in she hangs out with her. With Blitz and Stolas popping up in the background or cut away gags. Hopefully we get a "girls night out" or something Episode to REALLY flesh out these 3 girls.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

I don't see Blitzo having done anything to deserve being kicked in the nuts. He only said he MIGHT replace Loona (as his secretary, not his daughter) after she gave him a prolonged beatdown and emotionally blackmailed him into saying it. It's like having your spouse abuse you and when you tell them you're not taking it anymore they go "if you hate me so much why don't you leave?" - it's extremely shitty for an abuser to emotionally blackmail someone when their victim stands up to them. Loona is not the victim here and Blitzo's only "crime" was saying he MIGHT get a new secretary under duress (and after being pummelled for very minor criticism of Loona's bad work ethic - he's her boss and Loona has been shown to not give a shit about her job).

[@gabrielkawa3477]

Singing

[@jeremyallen5974]

He deserved a kick in the balls... for being concerned about his adopted daughter's health and well-being? What kind of fucked-in-the-head incel logic is THAT?

[@adamsayer11]

@@PlanetZoidstar Maybe it could have worked before the season finale part 2 where she opened up and called him dad etc, maybe if it was done a little less violently (maybe if Blitzo was the one to suggest to replace her rather than Loona saying it)

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@adamsayer11 I really hate how Seeing The Stars handles Loona. The narrative portrays Blitzo as being the one "in the wrong" when it's really Loona. But the writers seem to have completely missed this because she never apologises or feels bad for what she did. Blitzo does, but Loona was the abuser in the situation, not him.

[@Misto8990]

I think the fixation on making the characters bad people and saying "haha the characters have no morals" is kinda holding the show from having meaningfull character development Since they cant stop being assholes they also cant change

[@dataexpunged93N15]

Hoping it does go in a direction that criticizes the characters more, it seemed like they were doing that with Blitz in Truth Seekers and Ozzy's, but it's dropped in s2. Blitz's conflict not lasting with Stolas and seemingly not really mattering in S2 EP 2 was incredibly annoying to me, it almost feels like the season is out of order already. They should've been separated or at least unhappy with each other for an entire episode, not just kind of at the end of The Circus and Ozzy's. They should've been arguing about how they're using each other for greedy reasons. And that's not mentioning all the plots they could do with Loona realizing she's hurting others the way she's been hurt, Octavia learning to grow into a good person, etc. It's surprising, considering the parent series is supposed to be all about becoming a better person.

[@Misto8990]

@@dataexpunged93N15 the characters arent very compelling are they? I cant imagine myself caring for this show like i used to i still hope it gets better tho

[@error-try-again-later]

The fans only say that when it's convenient lmao.

[@D_YellowMadness]

Yeah, it's hard to sympathize with Loona's issues as a marginalized orphan after seeing her murder a baby & kick her loving adoptive dad in the crotch. It's had to sympathize with her lack of friends when I've seen her try to befriend humans in one episode & happily murder them in a later episode. I can sympathize with Millie most of the time but then I see another episode where she's mass murdering humans & I wonder why she's supposed to be a likable character. At least Moxie feels bad about it but the others never do.

[@OakleyZonkey]

its fucking *hell* though

[@Mr.Drew70]

Did it ever occur to viziepop that she’s just a terrible writer

[@MrSpartan993]

Probably not. She seems to not take ANY criticism at all.

[@jeremyallen5974]

​@@MrSpartan993she should try paying attention once in a while instead of siccing her idiot fanbase on anyone who says anything negative about her incel fanfic

[@Bloodclot20]

Her explaining hell’s lore sounds like 9 year old me explaining my warrior cat’s oc’s to my mum.

[@error-try-again-later]

I think even "bad writers" can make enjoyable products bc there's gotta be something out there for everyone, but Vivzie CANNOT handle any criticism whatsoever and her shows suffer for it. She's gone as far as telling her audience how they're "supposed" to "approach" certain episodes on Twitter before, like imagine being THAT passive aggressive towards your own audience. I'm not an anti or anything but damn.

[@janjanbinks1710]

She kinda reminds me of George Lucas: she has good ideas but she butchers the execution and development of said ideas. If she had more writers on board to help her streamline her work it'll be so much better

[@nightmaresandrainbows6303]

Yeah, I noticed that Helluva Boss has a really hard time writing female characters.

[@MrSpartan993]

I this point I think you mean just “WRITING CHARACTERS”.

[@nightmaresandrainbows6303]

@@MrSpartan993 yeah the writing on the is getting pretty bad. I like season 1 but it seems season 2 get fell off a cliff.

[@Otaku155]

Vivzie needs to stop letting her audience write here shows for her and start putting in her own effort in that regard.

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

As you might probably guess, even ChatGPT could write a better episode of Helluva Boss than the actual show itself.

[@sau7255]

Well duh it's chatgpt

[@odeiofunkdeputariarum851]

Stolas was originally a villain but Vivzie forced her writting partner to make him good because she liked the ship... Yeah she's not letting her audience write her show she just sucks at writting period

[@RantforTent]

@@HankJWimbleton-v1m Thats cap. People should stop relying on AI to make their show

[@Luna-Moon.UnderFNAF]

@@odeiofunkdeputariarum851She didn’t forced him, she asked him if he liked the idea and he did

[@JuanThaSilva]

The worlds most expensive fan-fiction project; Helluva Boss.

[@samharper9699]

The problem with Helluva Boss, aside from the wildly inconsitent writing and dialog, is the lack of progression. You could rearrange the canonical order of almost every episode and the series would still flow naturally. The series is just meandering with every episode introducing something new that ultimately does not change the status quo and only adds to the poorly structured world building and confusing universe. I really love this show, but dang it is inconsistent and does not seem to have a goal narratively or thematically.

[@samharper9699]

By progression I mean both plot and character wise

[@AJ_the_Dragon]

That nut shot at the end of S2 E2 just ruided the episode for me. I didnt like it already, the voice actor joke just went on, I was cringing during any Millie/Moxxie segment, jokes not landing, ect. But I was ok with it cuz I knew it just wasnt to my tastes. At the end (it could be) Loona was emotionly raw after giving the speach to Octavia, I can buy that she would lash out, seeing how shes hated hugs from Blitzo in the past (Espeshily emotianly charged clingy ones), but to go for a nut shot? I dont think she ever did that before in the show and its just complete overkill, kicking him in the stomach would have the same effect without making her look like an asshat.

[@Robotic_Boi]

Luna: dads make mistakes and they try their best Also luna when blitzo tries his best:

[@ethanchoi7036]

Yeah, just when I was almost getting to the point of finally liking Loona, she pulled that on Blitzo AND SMILED... I can't with Loona, I can't.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

Exactly, Loona felt like she came out of a badly written fanfic, written by someone who hates Loona. She was badly mischaracterised and suffers no consequences for repeatedly abusing Blitzo for no good reason.

[@no-one...186]

@@PlanetZoidstar THATS THE THING RIGHT? Loona doesn't suffer from the consequences for abusing Blitz and constantly insulting Moxxie. Don't you think it'll be a lot nicer if there's an episode of Loona facing some consequences for hurting anyone? Maybe a talk from someone who she would actually listen to.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@no-one...186 Yeah, the only time Millie clapped back against Loona was in the pilot. She never reacts when Loona or Blitzo mistreat Moxxie, which makes no sense for her character. It seems the only person Loona listens to is Vortex, otherwise she couldn't care less. Now we know she will explode at even the most minor of criticisms and she's not shown realising she was the one at fault.

[@littleblueclovers]

My biggest gripe is that I feel that the show uses past trauma as an excuse rather than just a reason. Reason: This character experienced trauma so now they do this specific type of bad act. The show portrays them as deeply flawed and they need to eventually acknowledge that and resolve it. Fans go: “I understand why they did that, but I hope they can grow and atone.” Excuse: This character experienced trauma so now they do this specific type of bad act. The show portrays them as a good person. The fans go: “That’s so sad! Aw! Poor sweetie.They need all the love. I LOVE flawed characters. Even ones that have little to no redeeming qualities. What I don’t like is when the show wants you to like them so much that they keep showing more and more trauma and bad events (out of their control) happen to them and expect us to think they’re a victim and they have no choice but to be the way they are.

[@cosmok-1367]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Bojack Horseman is a great example of this comment done right. Bojack is a terrible person and while he does have trauma, the show doesn’t use it as an EXCUSE for his character, but it’s a REASON. And even then when certain people in his life cut him off and don’t forgive him, it’s justified. Helluva Boss makes Blitz’s traumatized with his past about Verosika, Barbie and Fizz, but we only really see the trauma from Blitz’s POV. (Maybe Fizz from the last few episodes of season 2.) and were made to believe that Blitz does feel bad about the past, but we never take into account how the other side got affected. We never get to see Versokia’s side of the breakup aside from a quick summary, we never saw how Barbie felt after the death of their mom or her journey of rehab. Bojack works because it shows how Bojack affected the actions of those he wronged thus making us understand why he’s bad. But Hellva boss doesn’t acknowledge Blitz’s mistakes and he as well as the audience, expect the ones he hurt to just move on or be in his life again.

[@TheMadcap919]

@@cosmok-1367and another good example of using it as a reason and not an excuse was Moral Orel. When we see Clay and Bloberta’s past and Clay’s childhood, they manage to present it in away where it gives us a reason, but it doesn’t try to excuse what they do.

[@c0rpseUndertaker]

the main issue abt helluva boss' characters is that when they do 'develop', they lose that development, OR they change too quickly

[@reksraven]

I think that is mostly an issue of it beeing an indie project, with long production times, which was episodic before being more serialized in season 2. You don't have that much time fleshing out everybodies arc. Granted they wouldn't have to introduce so many new characters, and I really hope they don't expand on the cast any further than needed (or make them one off villains)

[@thebiggerfish8976]

Honestly, my biggest problem with this series (and Viv's work in general) that it always felt a bit "Overindulgent/Have Her cake and eat it too" in terms of how it seems that Viv tries to cram everything and every idea into her stories and characters and settings if that makes sense. Like, not just the Stolitz thing explained pretty well in this video, but this was also this was something I noticed all the way back during her Zoophobia days as well. I mean, as someone who struggles with that "Have your cake and eat it too" problem with his own settings and stories, I 100% get that why you wanna do that as well it's just... Sometimes you gotta say "no" and file ideas away for a different idea even if you liked them or have someone else you can trust to say "no" to you as well. It's hard, incredibly hard dare I say, but it's necessary or else it's just gonna be an overloaded confusing mess. Which is where we are with Viv's work right now. Couldn't say "No" to any of her ideas or save them for later, ergo way too much going on with very confusing writing and character arcs like we have now. Also slightly off topic, but Viv's human designs are nowhere nearly as good as her nonhuman designs in my book. I Can't be the only one to think that, am I?

[@wwandmitski]

what does have ur cake and eat it mean?

[@thebiggerfish8976]

@@wwandmitski It means "To try to enjoy/have all the benefits of something without having the negatives of it." E.I. trying to eat a cake without having to go through the hassle of cooking it first if that makes sense.

[@wwandmitski]

@@thebiggerfish8976 thank u!

[@thebiggerfish8976]

@@wwandmitski You're welcome.

[@dulcemendoza3526]

@@wwandmitskiwhatever

[@ronaldmacjokerfeliz2669]

This has aged like wine and it's wonderful

[@MrSpartan993]

Yup

[@snow_elfy]

wait why

[@v3n0msp4rk]

yup

[@olivelilyzz]

can i ask why? (genuinly. ive barely started watching hb like a week ago idk)

[@ronaldmacjokerfeliz2669]

@@olivelilyzz The clown, Fizarolli or something like that, I can't write that name, it was already more developed than Loona and Millie who are part of the main cast

[@lucindagomez7878]

If there is one change I would make to Helluva Boss it would be that Loona knew all along that Blintz is a deeply lonely man who fears intimacy but also craves it. From her perspective, him adopting her was taking advantage of an orphan teenager to force that familial connection which she DOES NOT owe him but is also too advantageous for her to back away from. Not only would it explain why she acts the way she does towards him, it would also show that Blintz has essentially created his own version of Stolas’s coercive power dynamic with the people in his own life. Taking advantage of his position of power over his employees to force a relationship that is more intimate than they want or owe him.

[@Corrector1]

I have thought that a more cynical way to portray Blitzo's adoption of Loona is that Blitzo thought that anyone he adopted would love him unconditionally, but things didn't turn out the way that he thought. In the first season, I felt like Blitzo's portrayal as a mostly decent parent clashed with the idea that he's a selfish asshole who drives people away, but season 2 did clarify that a bit.

[@samuraijackoff5354]

I feel that helluva boss breaks down into two types of episodes. A blitzo episode and the everybody else episode. They just need to take things slow, show one character without another or something. Focus on the small things.

[@middleman5484]

I have an idea for why Loona has tension between Moxxie and Millie. Since Hellhounds are the lowest part of the hierarchy, what if Loona’s parents were used by Wrath imps or more specifically were used as executioners for Crimson’s Mafia. Given that Moxxie has a minor resemblance of Crimson she has a natural sustain towards him.

[@rustyshackleford234]

Millie also seems a bit racist against hellhounds or sees them as lesser. She refers to loona as “blitz’s hellhound”. Viv could honestly make a great episode about this. Why does Millie see hellhounds as lesser? Why does loona hate M&M so much? We’d get to learn about the two main characters who have little to no character development. Edit: I cannot grammar

[@middleman5484]

@@rustyshackleford234 that can definitely work too

[@sadlobster1]

Here are some of the biggest questions I've had regarding Helluva Boss so far. 1. Are Hellhounds the same thing as werewolves...because both Loona and Vortex/Tex look like such creatures. 2. Although Asmodeus claims to despise touchy-feely kinds of love, fans suggest he secretly DOES care about them due to his supposed "relationship" with Fizzerolli. If this is in fact true, would this make them both possibly redeemable characters or simply neutral ones? 3. Why does Blitz enjoy putting down Moxxie so much, considering the fact he's the smarter and more skillful member of IMP? If anything, Mox should be the one in charge. Finally, why does Milly encourage Blitzo's consistent stalker behavior?

[@oranjaglad8648]

1. As far as I'm concerned, "werewolves" probably don't exist in this universe. The reason Loona and Vortex look like them is because they're humanoid. 2. Not too sure on this, but I just think that Asmodeus and Fizz don't really care much for morals. 3. Here's the thing: in media, there's always going to be that one "sane" member of the group; Moxxie for I.M.P. Blitz picks on him because he's always the most rational one a lot of the time and thinks of himself as "stronger" only because he's the boss. 4. Pretty sure it's just meant for laughs. My biggest guess is that Millie doesn't want Blitz getting upset if she also calls him out, but that's just a theory.

[@sadlobster1]

@@oranjaglad8648 In terms of the werewolf thing, I thought of that because I couldn't think of the best way to describe what Hellhounds actually ARE (due to the lack of lore behind them currently)

[@depressedrocksenjoyer9472]

2. Yes. In one of the trailers, it was shown that Fizzerolli actually lives with Asmodeus and a newspaper was shown there that was calling out Asmodeus for being a hypocrite

[@sadlobster1]

@@depressedrocksenjoyer9472 In THAT case, Ozzie could be in bigger trouble than Stolas would for "sleeping with an imp"

[@depressedrocksenjoyer9472]

@@sadlobster1 eh not much trouble compared to Stolas, considering that Asmodeus is both a King and a Great Prince of Hell so he probably couldn't care less

[@Торговецложками]

The show has an obvious problem of favoritism. It's normal when the author likes some characters more than others. Problems begin when the quality of the show itself in the form of a plot and other characters goes under the knife for the sake of favorites. Examples: Star vs the forces of Evil, where for the sake of a beloved couple, the authors ruined the final season and the finale itself, and Stephen Universe, where for the sake of the idea of forgiveness of Diamonds, everyone suddenly forgot that they were actually Nazis in space who committed a number of confirmed genocides. In Helluva Boss, the favorites are, obviously, Stolas and Blitz. And if in the first season, Stolas acted as an ambiguous character - a supreme demon, obviously unhappy in marriage, cheating on his wife, but a loving father to his daughter, he was still, well, you know, a Demon. The one who, without a second thought, will kill those who he does not like, the one who calmly orders a killer for his own purposes. A character who started creating problems for himself with his decisions, and who is now raking up the consequences. In the second season, all the blame for everything negative that he committed, including treason, was simply shifted to his wife, who became an evil and incorrigible bitch, just so that Stolas' actions would seem not just justified - but the only possible true. Stella herself started out as an interesting character who became a victim of betrayal and humiliation, but chose the path of revenge, which only aggravated the conflict. Now she's literally a scapegoat. All the potential that the show had at the beginning is now rapidly flying to the trash, and if it's not there yet, then the direction is clearly visible.

[@error-try-again-later]

They even retconned the Diamonds into committing no genocides later on, which is absolute bs when you think about it for 10 seconds. Like, what were all those literal weapons/war machines built for then 💀

[@papayer]

Don't forget Legend of Korra, aka 'let's win brownie points with a F/F relationship that made no sense for our ending'.

[@aaronlaluzerne6639]

The problem with the show is not with the characters, the problem with the show is with its writing, pacing, shift between tones, and imbalance of character focus.

[@thatoneguy2816]

So the characters are the problem too lol

[@PeriwinkleFairywinkle]

Millie is my favorite I just love badass women who are the dominant force in their relationship but aren’t overbearing or abusive bc “they’re badass so they’re violent” but I admit I’ve been extremely disappointed in her development…. She deserves way more than what she’s getting and I sincerely hope she gets more focus in the new season. She’s also the least bitchy female in series we’ve met so far too, which I think sadly makes her less of a favorite tho. But yeah she really needs to be fleshed out more than “badass southern wifu” edit: 25:01 this is the scene that solidified her as my favorite sorry just had to throw this in here 😅

[@bigmonkey1254]

Yeah, I do kinda like how she's still sweet towards Moxie but can keep up a badass image in public with style.

[@skeletonlover3214]

I think you have pretty valid criticism for helluva boss. I'm still having fun watching the series, even with those issues but yeah like you said it would be good If other characters got explored a bit more.

[@kaitomastuda6262]

For the "marriage being frowned upon" part, I'm not sure it's necessarily frowned upon. Moxxie and Millie just have a very wholesome relationship, and they're in the lust ring. A ring that relies on pleasure and yeah s3x, the lust ring could care less about having a wholesome relationship and care more about if they can get pleasure or something "fun" out of it. That's not to say it's definitely hinted that Asmodeus(sorry if i spelt it wrong) and Fizz have a very wholesome relationship, which definitely will have a part to play soon seeing how the season two teaser has a clip of (i think) Fizz reading the newspaper saying how Asmodeus is a hypocrite, which you can theorize relates to his relationship with Fizz. Overall marriage isn't seen as low there, it's just not something to be loved in the lust ring

[@Goblinhandler]

You know characters are poorly written when a fucking hundred page doujin makes you like Loona and Moxxie more than the actual show

[@Passions5555]

What? 😮

[@bunnies_go_brrr1469]

​@@Passions5555There is a pretty long porn comic out there that has Moxxie and Loona becoming a thing and doing sexual interactions behind Millie's back. It's written pretty well, you like the characters and some of it isn't all too bad.

[@dragonsdomain2096]

look bro these chars are still entertaining to me BUT HOLY GOD this show focuses on stolitz to the point where it feels like the chars are never going to get fleshed out or real dev and seeing stars is arguably more worse than the cherubs ep

[@hollyholly3172]

You right. Now that I think about it the show really HAS been mostly stolitz. Lol. Damn.

[@monika004]

its really unfortunate when you dont care about stolas/stolitz at all…..

[@carriehellbound1535]

Yeah, like what's with that anyway? I though this show was supposed to be a comedy with some drama sprinkled in . . . not a romance series. Consistancy is something the show struggles with alot. Is it meant to be an eposodic series? Or a serialized one with an overarching plot? Am I watching a comedy drama or a romantic drama? What plot points are and aren't meant to be taken seriously? This show has no idea what it wants to be and it really shows in the past couple of episodes.

[@Demicleas]

Speaking of the cherubs I'm surprised they haven't even been heard from since there fate in the comics, thought they would of been the main antagonist by now to give some kind of challenge to the Imp but I suppose that would get in the way of the romance aspect so they never go through with it.

[@carriehellbound1535]

@@Demicleas That's another thing that personally bugs me about the show. They keep intorducing new antagonists when there are already so many other antagonists that've already been set up, like the DHORKS agents, Striker, and ofc the sherubs. I feel like the show should try to at least progress the plots happening with those antagonists before introducing more.

[@smugbowkid9919]

Honestly, Hezuneutral’s videos pretty much echo a lot of my opinions on the show right now, save for a few of my own personal gripes and leniency’s. This video went hard on the characters themselves though, nice.

[@mcdonaldsadmincourtney]

SMUG BOW KID

[@bluesherbet2741]

SMUG BOW KID

[@dollzo]

SMUG BOW KID

[@ohmeohmicah]

I FUCKING LOVE A HAT IN TIME!!!!!!!!!!!

[@littleblueclovers]

What’s up with the “cute teen with trauma” ALWAYS being a goth in this world? I know more people who present as happy people as a mask, or become workaholics/delve into hobbies to escape their real world, etc. Loona looked the same in the flashback so sure, she could just like the aesthetic, but Octavia didn’t have to have the same style to show she has trauma. If she feels the pressure to keep up appearances, she could be very well-dressed to hide how she actually feels (y’know, how kids resemble their parents?). Or is she doesn’t like keeping up appearances, she could’ve just went for a hoodies and sweatpants. The universal “I sincerely don’t care how I look” outfit. In a sense I’d say the look is so-casual-that-it’s-rebellious in high ranking society. I just wish there was more clothing variety for cute girls with trauma.

[@stormy_person7530]

Personally, I feel like a lot of problems could be solved by a return to the show's original premise - the business. To me, the best episodes so far are the ones that take place partially or entirely in the human realm - Murder Family, Spring Broken, C.H.E.R.U.B., and Truth Seekers were all great and had some cool developments of the main cast - Blitzo, Moxie, and Millie, with some Loona content. A Power Rangers-style "target of the week" style could be cool, and offer a lot in the way of worldbuilding both for the Human Realm and for how the business functions in Hell. But we probably should have seen the way the show was going with Stolas and Octavia's dedicated episode being Episode 2. Not one episode had passed and already the trio was getting sidelined to focus on the side characters. To be honest, I liked Loo Loo Land and The Harvest Moon Festival, and I think they were excellent episodes that were needed to develop Stolas and Blitzo's relationship as well as set up some interesting characters from Blitzo's past. But I also think they should have been either mid-season markers or season finales. They're good, yes - but having literally _half the season_ dedicated to a side character is too much. And aside from the Stolitz side-plot choking the funny assassinations out of the story, it also just feels way too rushed. Each of these episodes are meant to be a major development in Stolas and Blitzo's relationship. In Loo Loo Land, Blitzo clearly still sees Stolas as the "creepy horndog benefactor he has to fuck to keep the business alive", whereas in The Harvest Moon Festival, he's clearly trying to pretend it's just a business relationship when it's obvious he genuinely likes Stolas, albeit under a mountain of belligerence and denial. And OZZIE's has them go on a _literal actual date_ with the main conflict being about if Stolas truly sees Blitzo as a lover or as just an interesting toy to use up and then toss away. If I could change the series, it would be this: make Loo Loo Land the first season's Episode 4 or 5 to develop Stolas and Octavia while still giving time to start the season having Stolas be his same obsessive self. Then, have Episode 7 be Truth Seekers, with the ending leading into Episode 8, The Harvest Moon Festival, where Blitzo's now torn by whether to side with Striker and rid himself of "the creepy horndog" and get a major boost to his pride... or to side with Stolas and save the life of the man who saved him and his. And, of course, I would make sure that the first _two episodes_ of Season 2 wouldn't be entirely focused on Stolas and his family drama. Seriously, it's at the point where I'm pretty sure _RWBY_ puts more focus on their main cast than Helluva Boss does, and that's saying something.

[@Thatgeeky_Artist]

You know what? It would be good to have a stella episode, where we get to see her relationship with her daughter, and because she is much lower class than stolas withing the Ars Goetia we can get some worldbuilding. We still don't know about this royalty status other than Octavia being a precautionary heir in case something happens to Stolas. And we still don't know the relationship between mother and daughter. I am just saying, her worrying about status so much would make a good episode.

[@jadecoolness101]

Yeah but if they expand on Stella then they'd have to acknowledge she's a victim of forced marriage and that'll make it harder to boil her down to "evil sociopath Stolas was justified in cheating on"

[@Thatgeeky_Artist]

@jadecoolness101 Welp... I guess there is always fanfiction

[@Youmama187]

My issue with Stolas and blitzes toxic relationship is that it could be a good dive into how toxic relationships keep going as both participants are trying to find something of value that they can hold onto in a world of misery. What I hope happens is we get an episode where Stolan and Blitzo sit down and actually put out there all the issues both good and bad why both are still dealing with eachother. Both characters are broken, and can grow, but as we just see the relationship hits the reset button every episode in order to keep the comedy

[@Hadeshy]

Legit when the episode that revealed their past came out I was like: Have them break up. Plz. Just have them break up. They can go back together when they got their shit together

[@nishchayjain1121]

Well, the most hated character in fiction will go to Griffith from Berserk, despite being a great character, he is a terrible person, since he sacrificed his crew. The Berserk fans hate him so much, I’m not going to lie.

[@depressedrocksenjoyer9472]

Well written but horrible character is one thing but poorly written horrible character(in this case Loona) is completely another

[@Goblinhandler]

People hate Griffith because he’s meant to be hated You are meant to like the Helluva Boss cast

[@magnaknight9252]

I agreed. I think this show is overdue to focus more on the other characters than just Stolas and Blitzo. 1. Have Moxxie stand up for himself more than stop being the Meg Griffin of the group, especially since he's been nothing more than a doormat to everyone except his wife. 2. Give Millie some character development and some flashback about her. 3. Have Loona be more than just a cliche of a moody, violent, edgy teen with the "f everything" attitude who doesn't do much other than being the newest furry waifu for some people who see her as a sexual plaything for their fan art, videos, and fanfic. 4. Improve the stories of all the characters, and bring back some of the one-time characters. 5. Stop focusing too much on Stolas and Blitzo.

[@paradoxthaifandub7852]

This is so true , i also like loona, her design is good but i think i want to see her growing up from asshole furries goth to actually best girl with a better behavier, all characters need to grow up and learn about life

[@magnaknight9252]

@@paradoxthaifandub7852 Exactly, that’s what I had in mind.

[@DukePumpking]

When im honest, Viziepop have lost the chance to flash up the other characters by Season 2 episode 2. imagine, Octavia want to steal the Book, Loona follows her and instead of stopping her, shes following octavia because the fight she has with Blitzo. Then focusing the entire episode of the 2 with glimps of Blitzo and stolas, and i mean really GLIMPS.

[@EdwardENigma-cg3kt]

Vivian has a gold mine of a story with a phenomenal basis. Unfortunately her execution can be inconsistent at times and often she will focus on what she wants to focus on rather than what needs to be focused on. It’s a big problem many writers have and it can damage a story that by all means should be great. Vivian is a good writer but she seems to be making that simple mistake. With more fleshing out and focus on specific areas of a story it can really improve helluva boss.

[@crazycatzg3481]

Thank you!!

[@reksraven]

Sorry, I just kept writing, I just want to make myself clear, I am not emotional lmao so a TL;DR: There is nothing a writer has to focus on, because different people enjoy different things in writing, and there are a lot of examples of great media, that does not care about things that some critiques would say is a must-have in writing. The actual way too long response to your comment: Here is the thing, without getting overprotective. I think a lot of people forget that writing what "needs to be focused on" can burn yourself out as a writer. Also let's not forget a ton of people think differently about different things. What you might think as an objective issue others might not see as one. Example of this is in the comments of this video. Some people think that Stella should be focused on, where others think that would not be a great idea. Other characters think verosica is a good character, I personally would disagree, not because she isn't salvagable, but because we know too little about her to really know, if she is a good character. Her desing is great, but taht is true for most characters in the show, she is a cardboard characterwise. In the end there is no objective best writing when it comes to what should be focused on. Some people love the minute details and need bulletproof lore, but some of the best stories have glaring plot holes and contrivances in them. Star Wars IV - VI are such stories. The lore of Jedi's, who Lukes Father actually was, etcetera was not really set in stone when filming on Episode IV started. And without hindsight of who Luke's Father turned out to be nobody could have known that we needed to focus on Luke and Vader in the end of the trilogy, that wasn't even planned as a trilogy when the first movie was shot. I mean biggest proof that the lore is not pretty good, is that George Lucas forgot that the Stormtroopers aren't Clones, he gave Jango Fett the quirk to bump his head, because a Stormtrooper bumps his head in Epsiode IV and he thought it would be funny if that was a cloned trait. Other shows with critical acclaim are the same. Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Holmes, Evangelion, etc. All had lore that was less than fleshed out with only the broadest of strokes being planned at the beginning. (Except for JoJo because Araki literally does not care about lore). But there are also great things, like Lord of the Rings that has a very deep and fleshed out lore and is one of the defining fantasies of our time. All to say: There is not one ting that defines good writing, or what people should focus on when writing.

[@moldycheese6635]

I feel like episode 2 would be much better if Stolas and Blitz accidentally met at the theme park. When Stolas originally goes to cheer up Octavia, he gets distracted by Blitz. This would make Stolas at least a little more in the right.

[@clairarts9377]

Im glad Helluva boss is getting its share of critiques and praise- this was very well done!

[@Mangakamen]

Much appreciated

[@alfie9089]

I'd love an episode where we follow a day in Verosika's life. I find her more intresting than any others. I think you could really flesh her out. Might just be me tho

[@Lumberjack_king]

It’s just you no one else likes her

[@jane_avan]

​@@Lumberjack_king I see a lot of people liking her and there is no actual reason to not do so

[@TheKlutz31013]

@@Lumberjack_king I like her

[@NoHandle44]

I never watch this show, but I usually hear praise about it. So it's weird to see this level of negative stuff on the characters.

[@hollowwoods7130]

It's just that these characters aren't well written, it's not all the characters

[@cyberzombie038]

The thing is that the show started off strong, but in later episodes it feels like they can't figure out what they want the show to be.

[@natnat8393]

@@cyberzombie038 it's weird cuz from episode 1 I saw what it's meant to be: a romantic adult comedy with musical elements

[@NoHandle44]

@@Undead_Grius man, that sucks. The character designs look really good. So it's a shame that they couldn't also have had great stories attached to them. That would've made the series iconic.

[@artistanthony1007]

​@@cyberzombie038 This and feels more leaning to teens if not children than adults as a show.

[@xeno9423]

other issue that i have is that almost every character has a similar personality. everyone is a sarchastic weirdo with a tragic backstory. who also has someone who loves but tries to be seen as the cool "bad guy" or "i don´t care" because they thinks that if they show their true personality, they will be rejected and/or considered weak. and the development they have is slowly accepting their emotions and understanding they will be accepted regardless. blitz, stolas, loona, octavia, moxie.... heck, even angel dust and her bomber friend in hazbin hotel. its like the author had no creativity. (and sorry for bad english)

[@Darkzero497]

I see the owl hommie and imp dude's shipping as the Joker and Harely effect. People adored it despite how bad it was. Such as "relationship goals" bs. Bahh. Whateves.

[@marvelous_jack5228]

Welp, it's just a matter of time until the helluva boss stans find this video and attempt to rip ya limb from limb. Still intrigued to find out ya thoughts and gripes about these characters in full though

[@cringequeen6291]

I'm so happy that you mentioned Stolas and Stella cause the circus episode makes me SO PISSED for that reason.....

[@JuanPablo-su6vw]

You know? When the pilot was show I liked this because it was focus on comedy. Now is to much on characters arcs and instropective of characters that I barely care how they feel

[@hollowwoods7130]

"Too much on character arcs" then you don't want an actual show you just want endless jokes

[@JuanPablo-su6vw]

@@hollowwoods7130 take that wathever you want, i m not sastified with the series in comparison with the pilot

[@horus7005]

@@hollowwoods7130 There are tons of different shows they just like the more comedy based shows instead of story based shows

[@JuanPablo-su6vw]

@@hollowwoods7130 you know? maybe yes. If it was something like the Simpson, South Park, regular show or looney toons I wouldn’t have a problem and any character arc is on the background or just the the leason of the day.

[@Isaac_646]

The latest episode was very obvious with both Moxie and Millie. They just get instantly shafted out of the story, and Loona is still kind of the same "angsty angry teen."

[@MarineSelena]

Im so tired of the stolitz I didn't even try to watch last chapter, I'll iust skip it 🛌

[@gabrielkawa3477]

Also keep in mind something very important. The Helluva Boss characters that are animals or partially they have animal instincts and reactions. Loona is a Hellhound so basically a dog. A dog if abused enough will become very aggressive, takes a long time to learn trust especially of the species that hurt her, and her life has been pretty shitty even by hell's standards from the looks of it. She yearns for family, relationships, and people she can trust. So here comes the human characteristics, she's basically a Tsundere, and because of how much she's been hurt she pushes everyone away in a different way than Blitz but still does.

[@Kye_stars]

exactly

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

We all get that. Its the lack of development of that is the problem. Again we KNOW the character but the development?? She is really static and yes after S2E02 too.

[@minimalbstolerance8113]

@@berilsevvalbekret772 Not everyone who has been hurt like that CAN grow as a person in real life. I speak from personal experience.

[@Vanished584]

@@minimalbstolerance8113 Well you kinda have to, both irl and in the cartoon. Irl becuase if you dont recover, you will be abandoned time and time again by those who you think care about you, It reinforces anti-morals. Been there and it still happens becuase I refuse to grow sometimes. (the MLP movie kinda tries to teach people that lesson but failed) And Cartoon becuase people will complain about poor writing :>

[@minimalbstolerance8113]

@@Vanished584 I don't think people care about me. I KNOW no-one does.

[@stickthelanding4785]

I love the Show buy i wish they would stop focusing on stolas and Blitzo so much

[@robmitch4085]

I don't think it's actually the fact that love and marriage is frowned upon. Moxie was getting mocked in that particular section because of where he was. He was in I'm not sure if KZbin's are going to allow me to say it but he was in the ring of the big L in a huge club well known for people going there for the sole purpose of fulfilling said L. For instance I may be getting the line partially wrong but at one point osmodeus himself said "it's not a house of love it's a house of L so give it a thrust That's The power of L." So I doubt they actually care that he's in love. Pretty much what happened here was he went to a hard Rock Cafe and started singing country songs about magic ponies. Granted that is my best possible guess from context clues in the episode itself not from actual information.

[@STAR_LOVE]

If they wanted Stolas an innocent and likable character they shouldn’t made a cheater and other 💩 he made. They honestly made Stolas a cheater to me. I know it was hinted they were forced to be married but they first show us that he cheated instead letting us to know Stella was rude, abusive wife the whole time, I thought she still love him even though were forced, and Octavia said they had a good relationship before, and she anger at him because he broke her heart. But now they show us in season 2 she just a cold heart b*** just probably a excuse for Stolas and Blitzo shipper to exist. ( Which it not my favorite couple tbh). The writer are terrible writing this relationship.

[@princessmarlena1359]

Much as I love Loona, she does need a tune-up in terms of personality and fleshing out here character. And the whole “angry mean b*” schtick is getting a bit old. Why do I like her? Funny enough is because she reminds me of an exaggerated version of myself, off stage. On stage I’m more like Charlie from Hazbin Hotel.

[@drksideofthewal]

I always figured that Loona is mean to Blitz because she assumes he’s a pervert who adopted her for sex… but this is never made explicit in the text. Instead, she seemingly hates her loving adopted father for no reason.

[@Scarlet-bubs124]

On a side note The section about Millie where you were talking about moxies love for Millie and how love is perceived could have been a rly cool thing is the hazbin universe, for example let’s say that love is often looked down upon in society because why would you need to love anyone when you can just go and have the literal devils tango with anyone and not face the consequences

[@SweetOrangeGirl]

Ah shit. Here we go again.

[@Ironbattlemace]

I think the worst part of the whole series is the damn bad humor and plot holes bigger than milky ways central black hole. This series is condensed like: "Imagine hell, but nearly everyone is POS and horny, everyone is a gay, execpt this one (but he is secretly gay)". It starts to feel forced when you see an owl and a imp dishing out one episode worth of "fak" jokes. I am part gay, it still is annoying as hell, if we would flip the script that everyone is straight but constantly horny, it would be as miserable.

[@shai17altamiranoanco77]

All of the females characters arent given too mich justice neither screemtime and itst such a shame

[@TheJadeFist]

Does Loona actually hate or dislike Millie? I don't think I ever really got that vibe, at worst Loona teases Moxxie, which would make Millie defensive, but also that was the pilot (unless I'm forgetting another moment) and Loona's personality changed a bit from pilot to the running show.

[@bluesherbet2741]

"STOP GETTING HYSTERICAL FATTY" **throws Moxie into a wall**

[@zopaintanimations]

I'm slowly starting to lose interest in Helluva Boss. I LOVED the first season, it's just that the second season feels like it's written by aomeome who hasn't watched season 1. There are so many inconsistencies. And I think that the character writing is slowly annoying me.

[@jubileebaby0]

I lost interest in the show as well

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

@@jubileebaby0 Honestly, I'm slowly shifting my interest to the other good animated web series out there. You know, stuff like Lackadaisy and Murder Drones.

[@jubileebaby0]

@@HankJWimbleton-v1m i love murder drones 😃

[@TheSwordmanDrake]

A 1 hour rant about helluva boss characters? Don't mind if I do

[@tylercafe1260]

34:44 is goofy but is also a reference to when he was a college football player. The hike position.

[@thewoodpeckers655]

A bit of a confession here, but I recently stumbled upon some helluva boss leaks including one with both Moxxie AND Millie forced into a *VEEERRRRRRRYYYYYYYYY* dire situation that seemed to be doing Millie’s character justice.

[@TheKlutz31013]

Where can I see?

[@thewoodpeckers655]

@@TheKlutz31013 I forgot where, and I don’t really want to say it unless you REALLY want to know.

[@TheKlutz31013]

@@thewoodpeckers655 I’m ready

[@bunnies_go_brrr1469]

​@@TheKlutz31013If I know what he's talking about, I believe it's a plot about Millie going to...Ahem...Unplug her life support because she's haunted by a ghost.

[@bunnies_go_brrr1469]

I think the episode was going to be called “Ghost***ers” or something.

[@chadmann2724]

More merch drops than episodes just putting that out there

[@omegaonion7500]

don't they have merch for characters that have literally seconds of screentime (like that TV guy)

[@hollyholly3172]

Facts. -Swear we’ve seen more merch drops for shit like hazbin hotel and we STILL don’t even have an episode besides the pilot..- edited because I forgot hazbin hotel got announced to be coming out 2 months ago in summer of this year. Still a long wait tho but atleast it’s something

[@sunflowermink3110]

I mean they need money to make the show so I don't mind

[@nilge90]

Allegedly season 2(at least the first episode) was written before season 1 who does that. Season 2 wants to establish Stolas as an innocent gay baby that is stuck in a really bad relationship and can finally go up against Amber Bird. The show went from focusing on IMP to Stolitz and the scene between Loona and Octavia feels somewhat rushed, doesn't get the the time it deserved and only exist as an extension of Stoliz

[@bluesherbet2741]

"Amber Bird" NAWWW LMAO 😭😭😭

[@screechingtoad2683]

I think where they left off in season one and where season two started could still fit together with stolas and blitz. They're more worried about their kids then where they stand with each other, and got pulled into wacky hijinks without much time to sit down and process their feelings. So, to me at least, it still feels plausible that those two episodes could connect

[@Fenix_Hunter]

After a while, Millie and Loona got their own episodes (kinda). Loona's was ok, they gave her some development and adressed the fact that she has no friends (nothing about the class stuff tho). And Millie got the worst episod of the series, with most of both development and screen time going to Moxxie

[@jeremyallen5974]

Loona's development ALSO falls flat because that moron Blitzo hijacked what Was SUPPOSED to be HER episode. AND she immediately goes back to treating him like shit like your supposed 'development' never happened If Blitz had been his usual tardo self and lost the furry bait the chance to make actual friends it would have made her animosity towards him in the next episode make more sense

[@owo4288]

Hopefully after they resolve Stolas and Blitz for season 1 finale, they will go back and give some writing to the women.

[@WarsunGames]

15:13 the majority of that fan base likes her dress style. That TOP is famous. it looks very creative and people love it and wish they thought of it first.

[@junglebat2139]

*Kicks to the groin* But in all seriousness, impressive analysis, sir. I too will keep my fingers and toes crossed that future episodes will address the points you made in this (these? Because of compilation...) video(s).

[@michaellovecat]

The issue is it's trying to make the whole thing by one point of view, I believe if the lesser characters got screen time to develop even a little bit, it would make them seem better. Just make a girl's night episode

[@Chaos_Fantasmic]

Underrated opinion: I don't really like Loona

[@biah2274]

I don't like it either, too annoying

[@TeenWithACarrotIDK]

“He doesn’t like you.” “Sorry.” *”I don’t like you either.”*

[@jusarson7237]

This aged in such a funny fucking way lmao

[@Mangakamen]

Tell me about it lol.

[@Identificador_no_disponible.]

🤡

[@js66613]

I get they are in hell, but like... ... Even if they're not supposed to be perfect or /good/, you could at least expect many of these characters to at least be more developed, fleshed out and their own people than they are - such as Loona, Millie, etc. - and give them a bit more nuance. That's generally good writing, as far as shows targeted at older audiences are concerned. (Plus, hell is a fictional place meant for sinners and sinners is an ancient concept that really had always been more meant to punish people who a specific group of people disagreed with, rather than being a place where people went BECAUSE they deserved it. So it shouldn't be an expectation that anyone in hell is ACTUALLY evil. There will be quite a few, like in any place, but let's not forget that the Bible thinks homosexuality alone is enough of a sin to have a guy stoned to death. (And considering Heaven and Hell exists, and devils exist in this universe... I'm gonna go off on a limb and say... Viv probably based this more around the Christian hell...) They don't automatically have to all be complete asshats. And even if they have to be, then why does Viv insist on making them these uwu soft bois? Clearly, she wants us to like them. In which case... actually working on their personalities and not just their sad backstories and actually making them work on themselves rather than having Stolas find excuses to screw Blitzo while also "being a good dad" - seems to me like Stolas' parenting would give anyone daddy issues, though.) Also, it's always disappointing to hear that a supposedly female show creator will overshadow her female cast for her male one and have females be just... tools to make the males seem better by comparison. Like, it's bad enough when it's done by males, but at least maybe you could chalk it up to ignorance of the other gender as bad as that is, given we're already living in the 21st century guys... like, seriously. She would have to be terribly lacking in any awareness of even herself in order to not see how poorly she treats her female characters... less like people and more like tools... compared to the male ones. It feels worse when it's done by someone who you would expect to understand. And, it would help to have some kind of disclaimer or something that very explicitly tells you not to idolise anything in there, including the Stolitz ship. Because a youngster could come across this and genuinely think it "relationship goals". It's not like other media doesn't glorify unhealthy relationships enough - like Twilight. Plus, I find there to be a double-standard in idolising a relationship based on lust with an obvious power imbalance between two people who really need therapy more than a romantic or sexual relationship at that point in time while also loathing the Stolas and his wife one. They're both toxic... you might as well treat them as equally fucked up, even if in different ways.

[@TheJadeFist]

I think the whole getting made fun of for their marriage and romance and such in episode 7 was more or less they were not in a family friendly lounge. "Are you singing love songs in my lustful lounge" and "Little imp you're really killing the vibe", even then the audience still applauded Moxxie and Millie after the end of the song. It just was not the appropriate club for that kind of thing, it was kind of bordering on being a highclass strip club/brothel, the stage was a giant green penis, going into 2 pink lines with little penis pyrotechnics. Ozzie's just not the place to go. You would find it odd to hear metal music being played at a jazz club, even if the music was good, it's not what people are going there for. I would image that if there were amusement parks and kid friendly stuff in this version of hell, that there would be other more family friendly clubs or restaurants the hell borne races would create and go to.

[@ShaunOfTheN00bs]

17:22 I was not prepared for how that DIO "Wryyyy" would enhance the funny of Millie scuttling like a gremlin, and nearly lost the bite of my sandwich I was chewing on

[@moedacow]

She got adopted by Blitz when she was 17 turning 18 soon yes Blitz is a good father figure to have just not the one Loona needs

[@michaeljavier870]

Episodes with Verosika Mayday and Barbie Wire on the spotlight would be appropriate.

[@morganguest1343]

Bit off topic, but I'm still waiting for the Three Cherubs to come back.