The Right and Wrong Way To Make a Terrible Character

[@Mangakamen]

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[@insectostrich4407]

My hope is that Adam comes back as a sinner in a future season, justifying the reason for him being so shallow to have depth later. I mean, that smile he gave to Lute as he was dying has to be hinting at something. I think it would be the perfect challenge for both him and Charlie.

[@chongwillson972]

@@insectostrich4407 "I mean, that smile he gave to Lute as he was dying has to be hinting at something." it could be the implied that only lute was the person who stayed with them no matter what, Lillith and eve both left him, so having his third partner being the one. though him trying to reconnect with lute after being a sinner, we could get, a juicy scene of Adam trying to talk with lute, the one person who didn't leave him and was loyal to him, turn against by being loyal to his ideals, "hell is forever". and also, him coming back kind of shoots the whole Perma-death thing in the foot, the snake boi, got away with it, since he was redeemed and technically didn't die on screen. they would need a good reason to bring him back.

[@insectostrich4407]

@@chongwillson972 Oh, no. I meant, I know why he smiled I’m just hoping it’ll lead to something else. Also, I think they could justify it by saying that he was the first Angel with human soul to die in hell. Or maybe the idea could be that him and Sir Pentious switched places, like a spot opened up when Adam died.

[@stephensmith7327]

I would have liked to have seen Heuy Emrich thrown in this discussion. Because the man is a portrait of Evil without charisma. He killed his first wife, tried to kill himself and his daughter to punish his son(only succeeded with himself), released a virus amongst Big Shell's population, used his son as a test pilot for several dangerous machines, sold out Big Boss, stole Punished Snake's revenge, plageriesed his work, and has THE NERVE to claim Morel High Ground. And yet I find him so interesting despite being a Tape Worm shaped like a Human.

[@naonna1]

If you like complex stories, despite it's painfully dated age, please see the TV version of Revolutionary Girl Utena. I don't think i enjoyed WATCHING the series... but i did enjoy it's overall themes and approach to character relationships. - It's one of the few shows where you should not skip the recap episodes, as it swaps camera perspectives in interesting ways. The question of how much of a bad person the Rose Bride is by the end is flame-war bait until the end of time.

[@dspace4514]

One of my favourite moments in a show is when a terrible person gets karma. Mahito was talking all that good shit about tormenting Itadori, but when Itadori finally broke, Mahito realized he became prey.

[@willowshake023]

Ngl, it was the most satisfying part of Shibuya

[@TheAzureNightmare]

Itadori brought his Golden Cloak.

[@ОлегНиколин-т5ж]

​@@TheAzureNightmare did he also bring his covenant? With black cloaks?

[@TheAzureNightmare]

@@ОлегНиколин-т5ж They were all chasing him in the snow.

[@christianlangdon3766]

Honestly this isy biggest ossue with gege, he has awesome singular moments of clarity that it feels like your in the same room as the characters. Except than he immediately screws it by having some other person come in, not follow through with the moment etc. like mahito should have just straight up died but than convoluted plot wouldnt happen as if death matters on this verse at that point. Shibuya was guttee trash, dagon had more screen time than most of the curses and i dare anyone to name somthing about him that isn't his name for character.

[@commonviewer2488]

An insufferable character is the kind that you hate so much, that even if they die or are written out of the story, you don't get a feeling of satisfaction from it. At best, you're relieved that you won't have to put up with them any longer.

[@evanoquendo1494]

A good example that immediately comes to mind is Annabella from final fantasy 16.

[@makimaac7]

Aka X-Pac heat

[@commentyouraddress]

Griffith lol

[@thefakecat8340]

​@@evanoquendo1494never played the game. Why was she bad?

[@evanoquendo1494]

@@thefakecat8340 without spoiling the story, she was a traitorous wife, a tyrannical duchess, and a horrible mother. No redeeming qualities whatsoever.

[@bluecanine3374]

I saw Adam's breakdown in the finale as a missed opportunity to add some needed context or depth to his actions, specifically on his view of "LOSERS". First man, tricked by a woman, some bitch in his words probably, that God MADE SPECIFICALLY FOR HIS USE, and had to claw his way back into the Lord's good graces. He was the ORIGINAL SINNER, yet he was able to turn it around enough to get into Heaven, so viewing those that failed as unworthy would make sense. If he, the one who doomed mankind, could still get into heaven, then what's their excuse other than being the most low of scummy people? Use the theme of redemption Charlie is fighting for and reveal that Adam was in a twisted sense what she advocated for, a sinner who redeemed themself.

[@justice8718]

Adam in the show is nothing like the one in the Bible. He’s based on the second Adam, the one that is worshipped by humans and is sacrificed for them. The only way to Heaven. And the only one who can judge human souls.

[@justordinaryguy8407]

1) I don't know if you talking about Lilith or Eve but here is for both of them Lilith wasn't specifically made for his use, they were created equal (it's stated in the show) and even when Lilith cheated on him nor she nor Lucifer were sent to hell so she had quite a lot of freedom just as Adam As for Eve she didn't tricked Adam lol, it's she was tricked by Lucifer and Lilith to eat the apple (Lucifer and Lilith basically created evil just because they can, so they're pretty much the main villains) 2) He never was a sinner, he didn't ate apple ( or he would became similar to Eve, either Ru or sinner, we don't know yet) and because he stayed loyal to heaven and didn't do it, he became an angel (plz stop using bible for an animated show about gay demons)

[@justordinaryguy8407]

​@@justice8718 It's one of the dumbest type of people, using a bible for Hazbin Hotel 💀💀💀

[@Squibbo0000]

​@@justordinaryguy8407using the bible to fill in what we dont know is a perfectly valid thing to do when THE STORY IS BASED ON BIBLICAL CANON.

[@abcdfg9859]

its not​@@Squibbo0000

[@amirgarcia547]

One of my favorite moments in Jujutsu Kaisen is when Yuji shouts at Mahito in rage right after he kills *censored,* and then Mahito just mockingly yells back at him as if it’s a game. It shows that Mahito takes absolutely nothing seriously and loves nothing more than toying with and tormenting others, which makes the scene later on where he runs away in terror from Yuji all the more satisfying. Because in that moment, he feels the same fear and despair of all his victims due to being put in the same exact circumstances they were. I do wish Yuji got to deal the final blow and avenge his comrades instead of Kenjaku just coming completely out of nowhere to absorb him, but ah well. At least he did eventually get his comeuppance.

[@ChloeCommentss]

he kinda showed the clip by accident, depending on how someone would interpret it.... but then again it's JJK, if you're interested, the fan base will spoil it all anyway :3

[@joshuaagee-bass4049]

Kenjaku works because Mahito faces his end the same way as Junpei does, betrayed by an ally at his most vunerable moment and because Mahito was the most evil cursed spirit but met his end at the hands of the most evil sorcerer, showing humans are the real monsters

[@chadzaru]

This scene in Brazil is even better in my opinion, because instead of screaming back to Yuji mahito just says "COME ON SCREAM LOUDER I CANT HEAR YOU" mocking him in every way possible

[@wolfsongrising]

@@ChloeCommentss part of why I'm just "watching from the sidelines" so to speak at this point lol.

[@Tr-Rs-An-Gi]

​​@@joshuaagee-bass4049 This is actually a very good interpretation of that scene 👍

[@briasinterlude1755]

I think what would’ve helped Adam improve as a character is if they made his grudge against Lucifer and Lilith his main motive. Lilith was the first (if not only) woman to defy him, which stemmed his misogyny. He lost both his wives to Lucifer. He probably didn’t have a great life as a human after evil was introduced to the world by them, most likely got in trouble and held responsible for Eve’s actions. If biblically accurate, he lived for centuries and experienced the worst of mankind which is why he doesn’t believe a sinner can be redeemed and has no problem exterminating them. It could also serve as a reminder to Lucifer and Lilith in their failures of giving free will.

[@CM-hx5dp]

Lucifer and lilith didn't even GIVE anyone free will. Lilith clearly already had, considering that she went against the purpose she was created for to be with lucifer, and the angels did not punish her for that.

[@briasinterlude1755]

@@CM-hx5dp my bad, sharing

[@onba7726]

I like your idea but I'd change one thing. If Adam doesn't believe sinners can change, than his motivation should actually be mercy. He sees killing his hell bound children as freeing them from eternal torment. Sure he's a dick to Charley but to him she's the child of the people who condemned so many of his offspring. Maybe Adam even revels the purges started with him coming down to hell to find and talk to Cain, only to find him an even worse person than before, tormenting his kin and possibly being tormented in turn. So he kills his first born to stop him. Gosh, there could be a whole psychological thing to this were Adam can't accept that a sinner can be redreamed because it means he didn't have to kill his child and the creeping guilt of "what if?" that causes him to double down. "No, I did the right thing!" The possibility make me so sad. Why did Viz have to be so lazy with this?

[@Suco1340]

​@@onba7726 I actually love that sm

[@Furydragonstormer]

@@onba7726 Good grief that could have actually been more interesting

[@pikazilla6405]

Mahito is a very fascinating and terrifying case because he is undeniably human. He is the literal manifestation of humanity's hatred towards other humans. Other curses are grotesque and often times think in ways completely alien to us but mahito looks and acts like a regular guy, but he's also terrifyingly fascinated with his own existence as well as people themselves. Curses themselves are a manifestation of people's fear and hatred and he is the walking manifestation of every act of evil mankind has committed on itself for no reason other than a sense of superiority and the disregard of other people's value and autonomy. He's a uniquely disgusting and hatable little cretin because you kinda can't hate him without in some way hating yourself, he is the worst part of you, he is every time you wished harm on someone and every time you celebrated the suffering of someone else.

[@lolanola1783]

I love this insight into him so much. You perfectly described how I feel about him. I kind of wish JJK played around more with this concept instead of having Mahito be one of the side villains who ultimately just gets "dealt with" like all the rest. There's something so interesting about the PERSONIFICATION of the worst parts of humanity

[@xAdrianHGx]

@@lolanola1783 real af, honestly mahito has more of a reason to be main villain than sukuna 💀

[@AQWChancer]

@@xAdrianHGx i did like sukunas ending alot though

[@xAdrianHGx]

@@AQWChancer for me it was completely out of character. would have been a cool ending if sukuna's change of heart was foreshadowed, but for pretty much entire show he was just a bloodlusted maniac that kills for fun till the day he dies. Literally last few minutes of his life he was raging and talking about murdering every person that mattered to yuji, then he proceeds to act all wise and shit in afterlife. This shit was as much out of character as gojo glazing sukuna in afterlife. All of it left a bad taste in my mouth.

[@shikiira4185]

I think Bill Cipher stands as a good example. Bill is such a terrible person yet his charisma and deceptive likeability make him an amazing antagonist. Not only that, he has so much lore that is foreshadowed much throughout the series before the audience even knew bill was a character. What makes Bill interesting is not only his charisma, but his overall looming presence. The fact that he can already be setting up his plot and you wouldn't even know he existed, yet at the same time, have hints of him everywhere. Then when he first appears to you, he appears friendly and only says he's seeking a deal. Of course, as we all know, deals with Bill bring higher and consequential stakes.

[@joshuaagee-bass4049]

Another good example is Jax from TADC vs J from Murder Drones. Jax is an abusive jerk to other characters but it's implied he does have an underlying trauma and reason for his actions. While J is seemingly set up to have redeeming qualities (caring for Tessa), only to forget about it by the finale and never be given any reason to why she hates N or anything, making her feel poorly written.

[@phantom-ri2tg]

@@joshuaagee-bass4049 Except this video says one dimensional villains can be fine. the issue is insufferable characters. A lot of people like J and she is not given enough screen time to be insufferable.

[@mythic-m7p]

Alastor also fits with the ""charisma and deceptive likeability" at least for his pilot version if you ask me.

[@juliacats5204]

@@mythic-m7p the fact that show managed to fool majority of viewers that he is a good guy and "he is here to help☺️" makes him much better. This guy gives the series push, ties all the knots and complicates simple in its core plot. If the show won’t make him a final antagonist, it will crush his character and, like, 1/3 of the story

[@caramel9154]

@@juliacats5204 wait who thought the deer guy was here to actually help charlie though? even ignoring the pilot, the dude in the show is pretty open about being untrustworthy with how he tortures people and his interest in the hotel being for deeper evil reasons. I don't see how he ties anything together though, as he's been left majorly vague in the show, presumably to give the writers breathing room.

[@Stinkfly3]

Mahito's focus arc in Season 1 and how he manipulated Junpei are why I classify him as "love to hate". He's not one of my favorites, but he's such an interesting antagonist that I can't help but appreciate his narrative.

[@rogue9230]

Nah i would consider Dio a “love to hate” antagonist as the shit he does is so petty to the point where it’s almost comical how evil he is. Mahito on the other hand is the manifestation of humanity’s worst traits so he’s just disgusting and hateable

[@MarukaiX]

​@@rogue9230OH GOD THAT DIO 😨

[@giraffedragon6110]

I think the reason why Mahito works and Adam doesn't has a few factors. 1). Mahito is a literal manifestation of Humanity's fear and hatred of each other. all of the disaster grade curses are like this, Jugo is the fear of fire, Hanami is the fear of nature, and Dagon is the fear of the ocean. Understanding this combined with his patchwork appearance, his power to mold, manipulate, and mutilate himself and others... it slots in perfectly in your mind of who he is as an individual. he is humanity's WORST. Adam by comparison requires homework. (granted the target audience of Hazbin Hotel are already familiar with the bible or at least it's opening book or 2). He's the first man, made in God's image, lived in Eden, committed the first sin along with Eve, got kicked out, lived a long but mortal life with hardship and hard work, and went to heaven. I haven't read paradise lost but they might have pulled info for that IDK. Hazbin Hotel Adam feels like your Rockstar father who dipped out of your life because of a midlife crisis and has young ladies hanging off of him young enough to be his kid. That might have been the point, that he's not a better person after millennia in heaven, but I feel it doesn't do anything with him meaningfully. 2). Mahito was introduced in chapter 16/episode 7 and has been around doing stuff since then till chapter 136/episode 47. He has been around for 129 chapters/40 episodes. While he wasn't always in focus we KNOW he's doing things in the background, plotting, and looking forward to breaking Yuji in half. Adam by comparison... had 1 season and the screen time he got didn't really do anything beneficial for his character. (granted, most of the focus was in Hell itself on developing the cast as a whole but I feel Adam's screentime was a bit underutilized.)

[@iwannahavearockstar2994]

Honestly I'm one of those people who think that Hazbin Hotel would have been a little better if Adam was rewritten as a protagonist or an innocent soul groomed to be a vicious soldier by Sarah cuz she sees sinners as unworthy for redemption.

[@joseroa5243]

@@iwannahavearockstar2994 The problem is that the author is afraid to go ibnto a more interesting side of heaven besides hell's enemy and subjugator. If they had made it be that when the characters enter heaven it's less colorful and enchanted (like hell) and more corporated, that Adam is not driven by ego and instead of colorful expressions is more of a dull reaction and when they mention culling hell he pepes and becomes more "humane" and then explain that spending millenia in the perfect world strip away all drive and passion of people and all humans eventually become stationary, like statues. They are alive, and in heaven but they are so bored with their eternal happiness that they just stay still- Have it being that the first purge was actually about a treath to heaven but then many winners found something to see in years time and manage to return to a form of normnalcy. That would've make it obvious that heaven is in trouble and sin itself it's the salvation it needs.

[@stephensmith7327]

​@@iwannahavearockstar2994that's just stupid. I think it would have been more interesting if we got a better picture of the Polotics of heaven and have Adam more or less be Landsman from The Wire. If you don't know who Landsman is, he's a cop with no sense of loyalty, fairness, or justice. His priorities are Hiarchy, Good Statistics, and what's for dinner. If he doesn't think it will look good on the books he doesn't move.

[@thfkmnIII]

Hazbin Hotel in general kinda sucks

[@iwannahavearockstar2994]

@@stephensmith7327 jumping head first into the shallow end of an argument by calling it stupid first of all , that corrupted cop personality would not make much sense considering there are several angels like Sarah who are clearly outranking him and he wouldn't be able to go on any kind of homicidal attack without some form of repercussions especially committing such sins while under heaven law . Besides we may still get the "Adam was manipulated" plot considering Sarah herself approved Adam doing the extermination . Vivzi said she is not scared to kill off characters but that she's not exactly done with Adam which may hint we will get some backstory maybe flashbacks about him from Lilith in season 2-3 .

[@cue316]

It helps that Mahito was a legitimately active threat throughout his run. He killed and hurt multiple characters and mentally hurt Yuji. Adam meanwhile likes to brag and just ends up killing 1 character, before biting the dust.

[@frankmendoza364]

and that character just comes back later anyway

[@sijnkkkkkk8304]

@@frankmendoza364 spoiler nobara comes back

[@xogleeztastexd583]

Lmao Bites za dusto

[@rawblockofcheese]

@@sijnkkkkkk8304 what about (spoilers for the shibuya incident and junpei's arc) nanami and junpei

[@toadlord8594]

@@taddad2641 Yeah but in my opinion Adam and Mahito just too funny to be compared Cause Mahito was a Way more effective Villain for the plot of JJK than Adam was for his verse of Hazbin Hotel

[@Simpsonsfan1011]

I think another point to emphasize with a terrible character done right or wrong in the "you're supposed to dislike them" section is how they harm those in the main cast and how lasting it is. Especially if they hurt characters we grow to root for or like for any reason Mahito is a good example of this as he murders three characters that have an effect on others in the story while maiming others permanently that leaves a deep scar on the main character, Yuji Itadori. It falls under the "Umbridge Effect" which I am surprised isn't brought up in the video since I think a hateable villain can backfire if they don't do anything that hits close to home for the audience. Like killing random NPCs wouldn't have the same effect as actions that can go from killing a beloved character to something as mundane as abusing a character that feels relatable.

[@nicholasaugello2534]

I mean that's why Valentino is a great villain compared to Adam because he literally owns one of the main characters as a slave not just a slave , a sex slave

[@bobfruck]

what is the umbridge effect?

[@L89Vette]

@@bobfruckI believe it refers to Dolores Umbridge from Harry Potter. A character who isn’t the main villain, but is far more unlikable than the main villain, Voldemort.

[@Blitz_IngaMCZ]

@@nicholasaugello2534 and, just to add to all that, _abusively_

[@nathanpierce7681]

unironically, skibidi toilet did this better than hazbin hotel. many of the antagonists outright hurt the characters people actually care about, making it all the more satisfying when they inevitably get their karma served to them on a silver platter meanwhile adam just, i don't know. acts like an insufferable frat boy and has an admittedly epic villainous breakdown right before being used as a pincushion. his breakdown was GREAT, i won't deny that, but it would've been so much more effective if you actually had a reason to want to see him go down

[@golddoesgames123]

Adam from Hazbin Hotel is a really underused character, with so many good motivations that could've been used to give him more depth and relatability. Vivzie kinda dropped the ball on him

[@Fanman1217]

The Fandom did him justice. There's a few rp servers that make him funny and likeable and others that try to make up a backstory for why he his this way. (Granted most try to say he hates hell cause of Lilith and lucifer but still better then what Vivzie gave him.)

[@MochiiMochaPop]

A classic choice is Megatron I think haha. Specifically like, a comic variation of him where he was a miner, tried to stand up for free choice before the auto bots tried permanently silencing him. The decepticon cause at first was noble, but slowly was corrupted as the original idea behind the cause and group was distorted.

[@Xios_Angelis]

I am kinda disappointed that the greatest "Love to hate him" character wasn't even mentioned. Handsome Jack. He would've also been a good parallel to Adam, as he is the same kind of crass, but with an actual character behind it

[@notseth3500]

Sometimes it wraps back around to just loving the guy. The dude's such a supreme douche (while being incredibly entertaining and rather charming), that at certain points I just kinda stop hating him. Definitely one of the greatest "love to hate" characters in my book.

[@kindredbarkmaw2509]

Not just that, because as charismatic and hateable as he is, when you kill his daughter the tonal shift is so instant you can FEEL his pain and rage. What he was doing was wrong. But he did it for her, in his own way. You can feel that, as terrible as he is, he is in genuine pain at her death, and YOU are now HIS antagonist. Somehow, despite being one of the morally worst characters in a series full of villains, you can... identify with him??? I that moment, at least. He isn't just a villain, he's not just evil, he's HUMAN. He has fun, he has emotions, he HAD a daughter, and now he hates YOU in particular more than anything in the universe.

[@absolutezerochill2700]

AND Jack actually thinks hes a good guy and has an understandable motivation and backstory. Adam is just a jerk bc he a man and he an angel ig.

[@cailinmoore8282]

I was just about to come in and comment about him too. I think he was the first villain I ever actually liked and sympathized with in any media in my younger years. I was instantly in love with how funny and charming he was, even when he was being a massive douchebag and monster of a person, I couldn't help but crack a smile at how much fun he was having. Of course the more I learned about him, the more tragic he became to me. When you find out about the conditions he lived in with his abusive family, the stuff he went through in the Pre-Sequel, and especially the moment when you kill his daughter, and suddenly he isn't having fun anymore, and he goes from playing with his food to doing everything in his power to kill you. He's such a rich and complex character who has layers that can be seen in so many scenes, especially the ones where his anger slowly builds up. He's a piece of shit, but he is always the highlight whenever I play, and I was so genuinely upset when he was killed.

[@thebanjoorder4446]

I'm kinda sad Jack Horner wasn't mentioned he's probably one of the best example of a good terrible character

[@PatzeShayminJeyawue]

trueee

[@mitchellalexander9162]

The Entire Time Adam from Hazbin Hotel Gloated and Boasted about 'Look How Awesome I am' The Words of Palutena from Kid Icarus kept repeating in my head and saying the same thing: *Angels Shouldn't Gloat Pit.*

[@Randomyoutuber-4831]

Yeah, that's the point of his character. To reveal heaven has a corrupt, unfair system that let's people like Adam rise while people like Sir Pentious fall. The line 'if hell is forever then heaven must be a lie' is literally a summary of that dynamic!

[@MonochromaticPrism]

A major component you missed with Mahito vs Adam is that Mahito is actually doing something that is in-line with his expected nature. Adam acting that way triggers massive rippling cracks to form within the entirety of the setting's world building, and does it in such a way that every time he's on screen makes you question how "heaven" could honestly view themselves as the good guys. This is problematic because some other characters in heaven are heavily implied to be good people, or at least be genuine in their reasoning and actions, and if you have met anyone like that or value those things yourself you know how immediately and gratingly Adam's behavior would stand out. Given his behavior he should be constantly receiving pushback and be in conflict with at least 1 other faction in heaven, yet the lack of any such thing occurring flies in the face of everything else being implied by non-Adam scenes and characterizations. Even if it turns out that the system is less "good" and "evil" and more "lawful" and "chaotic" Adam still doesn't work, as a lawfully motivated society would find his egotism and poor reasoning (during the court scene) to be inherently offensive and disgustingly inefficient.

[@justice8718]

Think about this, why do you think Adam makes it a big point that he existed before any males, including angels, in existence? That’s an another way of saying, “before the angels were, I am”.

[@sarafontanini7051]

the thing about this is that i think part of the poiint is adam's mere existence is meant to raise questions about the system. Dude is a sexist, a narcissist, sadistic and haughty, but he is STILL in heaven just on the grounds that he seemingly earned his way in so now he can do whatever he wants without remorse or second thought because 'he was already judged'.

[@ricky.t.1658]

Saying that is saying you didnt watch hazbin hotel

[@stabbykinz1446]

@@sarafontanini7051 And see, I think *this* could have worked as a concept...if they actually played it with far more subtlety. Like, he could be all of those awful traits, but I think it would've been a lot more interesting if he worked his way up so he could actively wield the bureaucratic power of heaven to lash out from a place of authority and *covered* his intentions with years of honed charisma and intelligence, not to mention gaming the system. All of that seething vitriol, just beneath the surface, barely placated by the fact that he IS very much in power and actively using his position to screw over sinners because he's just that haunted by the struggles he went through, whether of his own making or not. Instead, from the way it's presented, it feels like the instigating factors in the past are a barely remembered, flimsy excuse to him in order to have a grudge, with everything else getting in the way of him getting to be an amoral jackass. I get the purpose was to make him feel sleezy and irredeemable, but I feel like that really wastes the potential he had as a character.

[@phantom-ri2tg]

@@sarafontanini7051 People know that he is meant to show heaven is corrupt. The point is that it was not handled with care.

[@skeepodoop5197]

At the end of the day, a lot of this comes down to "show, don't tell." Adam didn't work because he was blatently telling the audience how iradeemable he was. Mahito on the other hand showed how iradeemable he was.

[@ricky.t.1658]

Adam shows he is irredimable many times

[@caramel9154]

@@ricky.t.1658 ehhh that was mostly by being blatantly sexist and doing things that lack subtly or acknowledge nuance being overwritten

[@CM-hx5dp]

@@ricky.t.1658 Eh, if I was adam, I would be sexist too. Women lied, and fucked his life over again and again. and constantly abandoned him.

[@skeepodoop5197]

@@ricky.t.1658 It's more that Adam also tells the audience how irradeemable he is. "Show don't tell" means to show how things are, rather than telling the audience. The reason for this is because if you outright tell the audience how evil a character is, it makes the character feel one dimentional, and it makes the audience think the writer doesn't think they're smart enough to figure it out on their own.

[@ricky.t.1658]

@@caramel9154 wtf are you talking about

[@Nomadman903]

I hate the TLOU Part 2 story because it tries to gaslight me that Ellie is a terrible person and Abby is just flawed despite numerous points stating objectively that Abby is terrible or worse than Ellie.

[@rogue9230]

This storyline just also doesn’t work as a playable video game since you actively dislike Abby and your forced to play as her for so many grueling hours

[@fork-man]

To matters worse as the part 1 makes it clear the world isn't back and white everyone has someone important and has taken people lives away which are also important to someone else joal was doing what he seen as right and a naritive standpoint it was right then the cherry on top is the fire fly has failed to make a cure before when they had other immune test subject's

[@MrSpartan993]

UGH, so true. Hated it.

[@tsukasa67]

The worst part about it is that the game cheats at the end. Ellie has absolutely none of the backstory or experiences that the player has so she has barely any reason to let Abby go. If the devs actually believed even an iota in what they created they would have given the player the choice to spare Abby or not. But they had no confidence and knew that 100% of players would have minecrafted her because ultimately their story was bunk and deep down they knew it.

[@thesnatcher3616]

They really should have started the game with Abby tbh if they really wanted the whole "sympathizing" with your enemies route to work for a character that killed off one of the most beloved protagonists in all of gaming up to that point. What game did as it stands currently would be like having a mario game that forces you to play as Bowser RIGHT after he brutally kills Mario and rapes Peach in front of Luigi.

[@Albert-yb9sk]

In my opinion Adam from record of ragnarok will always be better than hazbin hotels Adam, I just don’t see why Adam would want to kill his own “kids” rather than help them

[@alexanderdavidlocarnogomez3441]

Because he is a narcicist who only cares about his own ego and himself

[@mimikqx]

Definitely. Adam from ROR was great, compared to Adam from HH, who was just a static 1 dimensional character.

[@alexanderdavidlocarnogomez3441]

@@mimikqx i could almost say the same for ROR Adam... but he was more likeable

[@aylenpons6682]

I can see an Adam doing almost abything HH ones does. The difference. Thay can have different context and executions. Record Adam is not a good character just cose he estimates his sons, that had impact for how it was done, the tone and the message it tries to share.

[@pampanamonick7076]

​@@alexanderdavidlocarnogomez3441 you could say he is a simple character, but you can't say he is one dimensional, and especially static. He is a representation of love, both in a partner and in a father. He doesn't excuse evil, but he sees it from the point of view of his child. He also doesn't fight for humanity because they are humans, but because they are his children. He doesn't hate the Gods, but he does hate the fact they are hurting his family. Neither does he hate them because he got kicked out of eden, but because his wife got hurt in the process. He is love, he is what humans have over any other, he has the god given right to love and care and he wears it with pride.

[@Volvagia1927]

I think Sarcastic Chorus just did a full case study on, maybe, the most clear cut "What the Bleep were you doing, Writer" character in...possibly anything outside of out and out BAD media. "Um, Sheldon, you tried that already. Mrs. Wakeman says Jenny is not for sale." YEAH.

[@bluecanine3374]

I just saw that one too!

[@smugbowkid9919]

I never thought I’d ever see a section of a video named “Jackass has a point,” only on this channel

[@legendarycryptid2629]

@@smugbowkid9919 Different from Jerkass Has a Point, that's for sure. Of course, even if a jackass or jerkass has a point, they're still a jackass or a jerkass at the end of the day.

[@nathanpierce7681]

tvtropes mentioned. opening 20 tvtropes pages immediately.

[@agentumbra2374]

Weirdly enough I've seen Adam work really well with a few tweaks in a crossover fanfic with THE BOYS

[@crod9905]

What's the name of it?

[@Not_Sam17]

​@@crod9905 Hazbin Hotel

[@brachialtick6539]

Adam already works very well.

[@agentumbra2374]

@@crod9905 The Hell Boys. On ao3

[@crod9905]

@agentumbra2374 Nice! I'm actually friends with the author so I was wondering if you were talking about their fic!

[@justinwang8876]

I feel like Lelouch from Code Geass is a really good take on how the "noble goal bad methods" could end, since his actions actually worked. In the end, he went down as an evil dictator, but brought peace to the world by organizing his own death. Therefore, the sacrifices made were still honored, not as methods for his goals, but as victims of his cruelty.

[@Entertainment-zh7rt]

I enjoyed Adam despite what HH was trying to make us to think of him. The two second silent smile he gives to Lute before dying is better than any relationship drama and moments shared between Vaggie and Charlie.

[@user-bn4cs6zu6r]

I mean, he's sexist, racist and a genocidal maniac who has probably killed thousands of people.

[@hubertberrum6242]

I fully agree with you

[@toadlord8594]

Yeah I agree with that. Lute and Adam’s dynamic felt more engaging than Vaggie and Charlie being shoved in our faces. Heck Huskerdust has better chemistry as well over One episode.

[@alexanderdavidlocarnogomez3441]

​@@toadlord8594season 2

[@toadlord8594]

@@alexanderdavidlocarnogomez3441 Season 2 for what? Potential Sinner Adam to help expand on his character and potential redemption

[@Eterco]

I see Mahito, I click

[@Anon-9978]

📠

[@jojogacha974]

I just saw red Adam and went "*sigh* time to see another guy hate on hazbin. " Because usually when a character is red on the thumbnails it means they were one of the examples of being made bad

[@mugencc8496]

Same

[@6milhõesEm5AnosÉLorota]

​@@jojogacha974 Idk about this channel, but i tought the colors where used to match with the characters as Mahito has blue hair and stuff

[@jojogacha974]

@@6milhõesEm5AnosÉLorota nah it's usually that blue is the good example of the type of character in the video and red is a bad example.

[@toadlord8594]

Personally Omni-Man is probably one of my favorite “terrible characters” in this regard. From the incoming reveal of his murder of the Guardians of the Globe like a ticking Time Bomb, and then episode 7 when Omni-Man’s true nature is displayed to the world, was like a 💣 that we KNEW was coming but still felt incredibly powerful. With the Season 1 finale practically Cementing Omniman as a pure Monster with the outright atrocities he commits while “disciplining” Mark. But Nolan is also the Best written character of Invincible and it helps that he’s voiced by J.K Simmons.

[@----x-----]

Considering the society he comes from the fact that he could eventually regret his actions makes him a very nice guy by his people's standards

[@toadlord8594]

@@----x----- He's really the Nice Guy of the Viltrumites

[@catalin2766]

I never disliked Adam if I was to take him just as a villain, he works as a whatever villain to be defeated, you can swap him for generic angel number 27 and it works the same way, nothing changes. What I despise is that he's ADAM, the first man! There are so many ways to do Adam as a character and they used...none of them? Like, I can't comprehend firstly how is this guy so stupid! He's ancient, beyond ancient, he's been there since the creation of humanity, he should be wise beyond any other character in the show except for Lucifer, he should be intelligent, even if he wasn't a studious person after thousands and thousands of years you pick up stuff BUT NOPE! His reasoning is also inexistent. He's angry about Lilith, sure, but that's not his main purpose. He hates sinners just cause it seems, nothing much there. I would've loved for Adam, who keeps on bringing up humanity came from HIM, to have this mentality of a father and to have a deep disappointment in the sinners of hell like they are his lost children and he NEEDS to punish them thusly making his reasoning a more twisted idea of doing the right thing instead of him just being "So yeah, I'm a sadistic killer that just enjoys slaughter so that even a 4 year old can catch up to this idea that Heaven is corrupt"

[@CM-hx5dp]

Adam was just an embodiment of all Vivzie chronic daddy issues... She's a decent animator, but a shit writer.

[@KatherinaBathory]

He has spent that very millennia being told he is the very first, the cream of the cream... That's literally text-book how to become a jerk. 😂 From his meltdown, I actually think his eternity in heaven must have made him worse, not better.

[@VenusFeuerFalle]

"ike, I can't comprehend firstly how is this guy so stupid! " Bro, he had one job. DO not eat that fucking fruit and he failed it. How can he not be viewed as stupid from a narrative point of view?

[@maritofuentes4690]

​​@@VenusFeuerFalle except that thanks to vivzie rewrite Adam did not take the apple Oops Oh and also that was at the beginning of creation and it's been a few millennia since then

[@manuelvargasbasaes9381]

​@@VenusFeuerFalleExcept that wasn't his fault. If we're going to blame someone, let's blame the stupid Eve, who was the one who ate the apple. Adam only ate it because he didn't want to leave her alone. And we don't even know if this version of Adam ate that apple.

[@Arkus]

I think the appeal of Adam for a lot of fans is more the mystery of his backstory. We don't really know what happened in the Garden of Eden, just Charlie's story book version. Was Adam always this much of a crass jerk or was it a result of Lilith's actions? Also did Adam eat the Apple of Knowledge in this universe or was it just Eve? And if Adam did take a bite why was he forgiven and gained Angel status? So many questions that fans want the answers to.

[@alexanderdavidlocarnogomez3441]

And probably will or not be answered...you are throwing dices

[@anibalalejandrofernandez300]

The worst thing is that...literally Adam's backstory is literally SO exploitable potential that many fanfic writers are already exploiting since EVERYTHING we know about the events of Eden are just Charlie's childhood book (in which shows a very obvious favoritism for Lucifer and Lilith who are the "victims" of the story and Adam the "villain") and Lucifer's mentions of how he STOLE his two wives...which leaves Adam not as an idiot who can be hated...but as someone who since his creation and the rest of his mortal life was abandoned and betrayed by two of the people he loved by the same individual who ruined his entire life on a whim, it happened everything about being banished from Eden, living on the ancient earth, the death of Abel, the exile of Cain, the abandonment of Eve and seeing how the first humanity allowed itself to be carried away by sin... everything to finally reach heaven and live an entire eternity ALONE without anyone and VERY obviously and justifiably bitter with life (we can even say that his repellent attitude that they show us in the program is a mask that he wears to keep everyone away and never have a bond with anyone again. and avoid all the pain that he endured in his life as a human)

[@alexanderdavidlocarnogomez3441]

@@anibalalejandrofernandez300 all of that only works because of a huge amount of headcanons, that are never said in the show and surprisingly, you said almost the exact same thing has other people say, that Adam is just putting himself a mask to not admit he is inferior, when is not like that, Adam does not think he is inferior, he thinks he is superior against anyone and hates Lucifer because according to himself, he stole them, when is not true, Lilith left him because he wanted to control her and Eve left him for...god knows what. All this tragic past of Adam is just pure assumptions without proof and i fell people are just really paintinh Adam better than what he is. Although something is true, people like Adam, even the writers like him

[@anibalalejandrofernandez300]

@@alexanderdavidlocarnogomez3441 That's why I say that Adam has a LOT of potential in his backstory and more so for writers WHO WANT TO PUT EFFORTS into writing not like the original author (vivzie)

[@alexanderdavidlocarnogomez3441]

@@anibalalejandrofernandez300 ok

[@jennianis1811]

I really hated Mahito. He was vile, disgusting, had such a punchable face. And I loved that about Jujutsu Kaisen. I loved hating him; he makes my blood boil if he is on screen. And when Itadori beat the sh*t out of him in season 1, I was exstatic. It felt so good seeing that. Adam on the other hand is just annoying. It has definetly something to do with the swearing and sex jokes, that I just find unneccessery and over the top. Being annoying is worse than being a bad person (in fiction). I can hate bad people, but I hate annoying people on another level that I dont like. "Their crimes are just fictional, but my annoyance is real." (From a tumblr post)

[@topcat59]

Mahito is definitely deserving to be called a terrible character, since he doesn’t really desire to be more human like his fellow colleagues and he quite joys being a calamity that brings misery wherever he goes and Yuji is the one person he enjoys messing with due to his selfless nature.🐱

[@dmittleman9757]

Terrible person, not terrible character. He’s a well-written characterz

[@topcat59]

@@dmittleman9757 terrible character doesn’t mean terrible writing.🐱

[@Monkeylighthouse]

​@@topcat59it literally does

[@Emily12471]

​@@topcat59 Mangakamen has given a definition in this video, which Mahito doesn't really fall under

[@christianlangdon3766]

I actually hate mahito, like bro feels like the first year philosophical moron who thinks the matrix is actual high thinking. Like even his most basic stuff he spouts is just wrong he quite literally is the second worse curse when it comes to interaction. Than when he should have the moment of justice come upon him he doesnt die because plot. I dont even care that his death was painful it wasnt satisfying becouse all it did was somehow make a plot happen when it could have been done a lot of ways. The fact he has more screentime than most of the villain crew, is just the worse.

[@SundownerMGRR]

One of my favorite moments in Hazbin Hotel is when it ends, my second favorite is the ad break

[@pjdixon6199]

L opinion

[@sugarfreejelly5577]

Fiction's best example of this trope is Marty Armstrong. He isn't even the "Guy who's done the most bad stuff" but he is infinitely hatable because of how it makes you hate him. From the very beginning of the game every last thing you learn about this guy and how he's impacted the people surrounding him makes you hate him. But LISA doesn't want you to just take it all in at once. LISA would rather spoon feed you his awfulness one disgusting spoon at a time. They don't give you more to hate until you're done digesting the previous scoop. It's an unforgettable experience the way that LISA make you want nothing more than to see him turned into a red paste.

[@sdbzfan1]

this idea is the whole reason I despise easy to hate characters because they're rap*st or bullies its too easy, its boring, at least a bully that doesn't realize they're a bully is better than a bully because its easy, Someone like Frieza works because its taken to the extreme, nothing about him is human from motive to execution, but when it comes to people someone bad for the sake of it just sucks, I get not everyone has to have a sad backstory but I dont need sad, a monster that became a monster because of warped persecption of who they are because they keep getting away with stuff is great, they didnt start bad but ended a monster because life let them be

[@matijasostojic4288]

Adam kinda works for this if you subscribe to the theory that he didn't eat the apple and therefore doesn't have a proper sense for true evil/a moral compass, and the reason he thinks he is righteous even though he acts like a sinner is because he just does whatever he wants and Heaven just tells him he is good, then he is just good and he can't tell that he acts like an asshole even if it EXTREMELY obvious.

[@ShiningFingerStudio]

I do enjoy pure evil characters, but I have similar feelings in regards to Regina George and her many imitators. The "popular girl" character type is a little too "real" for me to be comfortable being depicted as pure evil/no redeeming qualities. Coupling that with how the character type mostly appears in media aimed at young girls, it just seems uncomfortably easy for some kids to generalize it to real life and assume girl more popular/successful than them is just evil.

[@Spino-hx2mr]

Some people tend to be that way, honestly. Not like its impossible to happen. You also have well executed examples, Jack Horner comes to mind.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

@@Spino-hx2mr What most people seem to miss is that even Jack Horner has depth, despite his simple motive.

[@Spino-hx2mr]

​@@cosmicspacething3474 What would that be?

[@redrasegarden]

Bully could have been a good example. Jimmy does some…questionable things, but dose have a grasp on what is right and wrong

[@dylanmiller6169]

And yet there was an army of people theorizing, predicting and hoping Adam would be brought back as a sinner after his death. People still liked Adam and saw potential in him. I myself think he only seemed one note because he was basically while he is on screen it is always in the same position. Working or having work interrupt his personal time. It was still his job yo kill demons and keep heaven safe from them and guess what is always around when he is on screen, or prepping to to deal with, demons. If we had a half of an episode or so to just watch him in heaven without any demons to distract him he would likely show those layers you where hoping for.

[@lumiauroras6741]

I need to know where the line between the "character dies" And "character ressurects in Heaven/potentially Hell" Is. Why does Sir Pentious get into Heaven while frickin Adam just dies? Also love how the criteria for getting into Heaven is the most basic things you could think of, truly, a show written by Californians.

[@ulurius]

@@lumiauroras6741 It is likely that Angelic weapons perma kill their victims. Adam's beams are not necessarily angelic weapons.

[@----x-----]

Dude I'd love to see some flashbacks with him in the next season from Lute's point of view.

[@ParanoidBobby]

@@lumiauroras6741 lol facts

[@marocat4749]

Also it would be funny having adam learning to be less of a dick and being humble in probably funny situations. And yes would make sense if angel could become sinners and parallels.

[@swiftswalow]

Another big problem with Hazbin's Adam as a character is that it makes the SHOW-WRITERS feel like hypocritical. As you pointed out, big part of what makes Adam as acharacter detestable is the "how is this douche allowed to be in heaven?", thus equating Adam to the protagonists of the show and the sinners from hell in a "you are no better yet we suffer" kind of way... the issue? that this works BOTH ways... Charlie's dreams and whole premise of the show is to offer a chance of redemption to the souls of sinners so they can go to heaven... but aparently Adam's redemption is off of the table and it's totally fine to murder him or the execution squad in cold blood with not an ounce of regret with the SAME weapons that ERASE souls? why? Is it because he is crass? because he did atrocities with zero regard for others? well... that's why every sinner is in hell to begin with, yet you are fighting for a chance for them, the only reason why you don't care for Adam is because you have PERSONAL reasons against him as an individual, not because he is beyond salvation, "the main cast don't like him so he is okay to kill.... the cannibals though? the demon lord that enslaves people? totally ok to fight with and for!". There is the theory that Adam will be reborn as a demon in hell and maybe be a character for future seasons trying to get redemption... and honestly at this point is the ONLY way to fix this issue, if he remains dead and nobody cares it kinda undermines severly the whole point of the series, because the whole premise revolves around "Heaven started exterminating demons to avoid overpopulation and a war... Charlie believes there is another way... so she basically starts a war". It's weird and it validates the execution of demons because it turns out heaven is 100% right, the sinners could destroy them and cause an uprise without an ounce of regret if they wanted to.

[@coppercrusader2822]

FACTS

[@jonathangoodwin5609]

Overall point: if Hazbin team did it, there's a good chance they did something wrong.

[@alligatoreamericano3520]

... So were they supposed to stand there and let themselves be butchered until someone gets redeemed because killing angels would go against their principles? Charlie tried to talk haven out of the extermination MULTIPLE TIMES and Adam made abundantly clear that he didn't care, what the sinners did was legitimate defense. Who's gonna redeem sinners if all the people Who were trying to have been slaughtered?

[@milkman4407]

This is actually a very good point, I see people bringing up nonsense about vivziepop doing straw mans on Christianity, but Adam genuinely believed he was in the right, that sinners can’t be redeemed, it’s not like he just wanted to kill people for no reason, in his mind those were irredeemable people.

[@swiftswalow]

​@@alligatoreamericano3520 I wrote a lengthy response, but it was overly long, so i'll try to make a waaay shorter but also less effective response (since there are several things to point out): With this action, if Heaven doesn't respond right away with an all out war, is MASSIVE plot armor. What Charlie just did was show the heavens that hell can and will fight back slaughtering everything in it's way... which means heaven was 100% justified in their original way of thinking, the sinners would have no qualms with overtaking heaven if they were enough people and were equipped for whatever reason they wanted (The cannibals even joined because they want to eat angels, not out of self defense, the 'vicitm' narrative doesn't apply to them)... heck, a bunch of randos and ONE trained soldier defeated the whole squad and killed the leader. The fear and tension should be at an all time high. In her attempts to avoid death, Charlie started an all out war between heaven and hell... for the right to not be exterminated and live among the people in heaven... that heaven was rejecting because they feared an all out war... you see the problem? Charlie re-affirms Heaven's beliefs, not challenge them. But the show keeps acting as if her hotel will prove Heaven that they are wrong... well, she is trying to prove they are wrong by showing that they are right. That's the Hypocracy. Also only Charlie was there for self-defense, the rest of the main cast were there because they liked Charlie, most of them would've just evacuated, which is a non-vilent way of self defense too, and is not like they couldn't rebuild later (which hey, if the main cast survives... that's all that matters, they are the only ones trying the redemption thing, and many of them not even that... ) and the rest of the sinners were there for selfish and at times twisted horrendous reasons and reprehensable people who i have no reason to care about for their lives any more than i care about the execution squad's... because those are the people that heaven is right to despise and the exact type they fear, remember heaven DOESN'T KNOW redemption works, the first redeemed demon happens only AFTER the fact. They've been shown killing and eating one another in the opening number of the series... i dunno, they don't seem the most worthy lives to keep or allow to have a chance at getting into heaven, if i live and heaven and my new neighbor is a cannibal i would seriously question what i did wrong in life. (Also Adam's death was not self defense, the battle was over, yet there is ZERO care from any characters of seeing him murdered in cold blood and it is taken as a joke... even when he would've probably been ten time more valuable to keep as a temporary prisoner. )

[@kevinreilly4611]

Yeah I kinda knew that would be your opinion of Adam's character. Personally I enjoy the heck out of him from the comedic aspect of it but also from the potential of the reverse reflection of what Charlie is trying to do. Charlie is trying to redeem people who were sent to hell and to make them better in order to get into heaven. Adam reflects the opposite of that he was probably a good soul that managed to get into heaven but since he's been there for so long no longer cares and has become what some would be worthy of hell. Personally I like the duality of that but can completely understand that that's a lot of subtext stuff and stuff you would have to read into outside of the source material (which i admit is bad writing). So it's completely understandable if somebody rejects my take given it only works outside the given material.

[@Benshavit493]

I agree, even though currently I find him a pretty lame and blend antagonist, I definitely fell like a flashback could improve him a lot by showing what tou said

[@briasinterlude1755]

I think what would’ve helped Adam improve as a character is if they made his grudge against Lucifer and Lilith his main motive. Lilith was the first (if not only) woman to defy him, which stemmed his misogyny. He lost both his wives to Lucifer. He probably didn’t have a great life as a human after evil was introduced to the world by them, most likely got in trouble and held responsible for Eve’s actions. If biblically accurate, he lived for centuries and experienced the worst of mankind which is why he doesn’t believe a sinner can be redeemed and has no problem exterminating them. It could also serve as a reminder to Lucifer and Lilith in their failures of giving free will.

[@Psychoangel-d23]

@@briasinterlude1755 The thing about adam is. he had a point. If you can just avoid punishment via redemption... Is hell really a consequence?

[@maybayV2]

​​@@Psychoangel-d23 Why does the consequence have to be eternal if you can prove you can redeem yourself? But that's literally what Adam does in the Bible as well.

[@coin2094]

@@Psychoangel-d23well that’s kinda like saying “if your prison sentence isn’t for life is it even a consequence” yeah cause it’s still time out of your life where your freedoms taken and your probably gonna spend miserable. I never liked the idea of hell being eternal anyway. I think it’s very difficult to imagine a crime terrible enough where the punishment is endless torture for an existence that has no end. I mean I don’t even think I’d want to have a nice existence that never ends. You’d get tired of it eventually and then what? You still have to keep existing. And then in the context of this story if you do become better (not just in actions but genuinely become a good person) do should you really still be there suffering? Maybe still for as long as it takes for you to amend the crime but forever?

[@Ch1l1C0nCarnag3]

I still stand by it that Abbie was so CLOSE to being a good character, but they screwed up badly and made her unlikeable. If TLoU2 had been marketed as Abbie's story and not brought up Joel or Ellie at all, then had us play as her for a few hours as we track down the man she wants revenge on without ever mentioning his name, then it would have made the reveal much more... palatable. We would have had time to get to know Abbie and her friends. We'd get to know who she is, what she's like, her perspective and how the grief led her to track Joel down. She would have had a chance to be an actual character we grow to like BEFORE she kills our beloved father figure. We'd understand her more and it would have made the consequences of Joel's actions a bitter pill to swallow rather than just a slab of rotten meat.

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

12:01 It kind of helps Mahito is a Disaster Curse born from all the fear people have of other people. Dude is literally the worst aspects of humanity manifested, so the fact he is so gleefully malicious and wicked really feels appropriate and thus you are left wondering just what low will he sink to.

[@6milhõesEm5AnosÉLorota]

He is made of evil 😱🤯🔥🔥

[@AiorosSagittarius]

My example of a well written villain is Danzo from Naruto. I hate this guy with a passion, but that's why he's such a good villain. And the noble goals he claims he has may have been true in the beginning, but certainly not anymore by the end. He always yammers how he's doing everything for the Leaf Village, but when you see what he does, you sometimes wonder how that is for anyone's benefit but his own. That's how you know the "it's for the Leaf" is only a pretense. Some actions you wonder if they were really as necessary as he makes them out to be (like spreading word about Naruto having the Ninetails inside him so the village can focus its hatred on one single kid, thus remaining peaceful). Or the Sharingan he collected. He never used those for the benefit of the Leaf, only in his fight against Sasuke (who rightfully wanted to kill him).

[@ShiningFingerStudio]

Completely agree. Much of his behavior can be chalked up to his own stated role of being the Leaf's "necessary darkness", but then you get into the details, and the lie starts cracking. Fine, the Third is a soft hearted fool who allows to many potential problems to exist, so you take matters into your own hands. Sure, Shisui's plan would only be a temporary band-aid solution to the greater issue of Uchiha integration/loyalty, but did you really need to kill such a loyal, dedicated, and powerful shinobi? Yes, the Uchiha are a ticking time bomb that are probably more trouble than they are worth at this point, and killing them all would be a rather thorough solution, bu.... wait. Are you stealing the Sharingan from the dead bodies and putting them into yourself?! Well, yes, it would be a shame for the Leaf to lose such a powerful ability, but given how you advocated for the Uchiha Massacre and actively sabotaged other attempts to resolve the situation, don't you think that this comes across as a bit self serving? Danzo lied to many people throughout his life, but most of all, himself. That it was all "necessary" and "for the Leaf", with no personal ego involved.

[@bluecanine3374]

​@@ShiningFingerStudiowhat's more it felt like he was still a child trying to prove to himself that he wasn't a coward when Hiruzen voluteered as sacrifice and he blurted nonsense in rage so the 2nd Hokage decided to pass on the title to Hiruzen. He felt lesser, a coward only fit to hide in the shadows and trying to prop himself up as the true Hokage and make Hiruzen a figurehead. Rather than work with any of his teammates no, he just stayed safely behind the lines having others to protect him or stealing the eyes because he could never rely on his own strength fully.

[@makimaac7]

There is a clear difference between a character getting heel heat and “go away” heat

[@Dark_Peace]

"we're gonna talk about terrible characters" I wonder if he's gonna talk about that blue hair girl again ... Yup, never disappoints

[@Shylunar64]

What the hell, dog assist?! But on topic, A terrible character that I like is Mustache Girl from A Hat in Time. She has a noble goal of getting rid of the mafia who took over her home but then goes about it the wrong way by stealing the time pieces and becoming judge, jury, and executioner. Not the deepest character but I like it.

[@theshinypeliper8813]

Griffith from Berserk Idk if I gotta explain myself here

[@pixelty7458]

nah griffith is a great character who is an absolute monster

[@theshinypeliper8813]

@@pixelty7458 yeah, I was going by what this video meant by terrible character (I interpreted it as a character who is meant to be a terrible person)

[@manram9474]

Thing is, Adam is not even, outside from the protagonist point of view, and only Charlie and Veggie, evil. Let me explain. Hell wasn't supposed to exist. It only existed due to the actions of Lilith and Lucifer, which made Eve (gladly or not) to eat the fruit of good and evil, to give her free will. That's not a truthful explanation, but I wil explain that later. That very action brought on the creation of Hell, a wound on creation, which shouldn't have existed in the first place, and Lucifer and Lilith were made jailers/king and queen of the place. These two very facts do show that Heaven, and above all Adam, does have a good reason to not believe when someone from Hell, above all Charlie, says "Please stop destroying our citizens!" That's without going on how sinners can become more powerful the more souls they gain (meaning that if left alone, and they would be due to how Lucifer behaves on his own citizens, be they Imps to nobles, in helluva boss), the more powerful they become. That's all present in the shows. About the explanation on free will, let me make a simple question: if there was no free will, how could Lilith have gone away with Lucifer? Or how could Eve have eaten the fruit? It doesn't make sense, but that's always a problem with people who have a very, very basic understanding of the Bible (and I am agnostic). Meaning that Lilith, and above all Lucifer, have destroyed Adam's kingdom (Eden was to be given unto him), Adam's children (who would never go into Eden in life), Eve (because she is no longer around), and they made a situation where instead of being Jailers as they should be, they instead prefer to let sinners run rampant, while they own subjects can get into Earth to kill more Humans before their time. I would be apopletic in his place. That's also without going on how Charlie came. She didn't have a plan, she didn't have proof that a sinner could be redeemed (or, as how I would prefer, could redeem themselves), and wanted to stop the only way to avoid a situation of Hell running rampant by having this plan, all the while being the daughter of the two people Adam has every reason possible to hate; That's not a small thing, because in THOUSANDS of years no sinner has redeemed themselves. Not one. Which will make the explanation for Serpentius...interesting, to say the least, to hear. Because either it will be a plot hole, or Adam was connected. All these things are present, or are at the very least takeable, from the show (either Hazbin, or Helluva). Lucifer, in my opinion, is a far more hateable person, and character, but it's not presented as such. Lucifer corrupted humanity, but bemoans the consequences of his actions, and even revels on how he did it (the apple is omnipresent in his person). Lucifer destroyed Adam's life, but he revels on what he did, taunting him with his actions, not regretting them once. Lucifer is able to, if he wished, control sinners, and imps, and all his subjects. But he wallows in self-pity. But now this comment is too long, hopefully it will be read.

[@manram9474]

Also, about the feasibility of the Hotel. In 2023 61 millions people died. Now, let's say that 95% of those go to Heaven; Then 3 millions in 2023 only went to Hell, how does Charlie expect to redeem that number?

[@SomeOtherTroper]

Walter White (Breaking Bad) and Lelouche Lamperouge (Code Geass) come to mind very easily as protagonists who are awful people. They're up against even more awful or outright unhinged antagonists, and they do have their reasons, but their hands are the diametric opposite of clean. I think what really sells those shows, though, is the moments when those characters 'break through' and start actively reveling in what they're doing. That's what pushes them over the edge into "well-written terrible character" territory: their points and motivations make sense. And then they take a nice swan dive into the absolute deep end of "shit, you might be the protagonist, but you're a villain, and you've given up everything you said was your emotional motivation". (And I'll say nothing more because their struggles in the pool after having taken that swan dive are something to behold.) I'd honestly put Julian Slowik from The Menu here too: He has a coherent motivation, but he's also a sadistic madman. I went into that film expecting a horror flick about a chef serving up his guests to each other, but that's not what I got. Slowik is an antagonist, a villain, and a sadist, but there is a definite method to his madness that doesn't excuse his actions, but gives them significant weight.

[@marocat4749]

I dont think lelouchj is an awful person, his entire emotional conflict comes from going through with his alter ego antihero role and that getting to him, because he cares, regardless what he tells himself. And that making things messy. He is more like a messy delightful antihero.

[@firestargaming9521]

"The writing can make a character terrible." Vivzislop reference?!

[@ahmad92760]

Walter White from Breaking Bad is an excellent terrible person character. He justifies making drugs as a means to an end, but he is secretly very proud of himself and loved every bit of it.

[@ulurius]

But you're not supposed to hate Walter. He doesn't fit into this definition.

[@Eddisdedd]

​@ulurius that's just because he's the Mc. What if his brother in law was the Mc? Then he'd be a terrible person

[@kmon9911]

If we're talking terrible people done right Konosuba is right there lol

[@isaackane4931]

Unironically Adam and Lute were the best characters in HH. Adam specifically, while Lute makes a good backup/secondary character to him. Their dynamic alone trumps everything else the show tries to portray, especially Charlie and Vaggie. Granted, I think a good deal of it is his VA carrying through the awful script writing. It also doesn't help that the show's incompetent writing is what makes him such a good character by comparison. He's the only person who makes an argument towards the concept of redemption in Hell, even if it is as simple as, "They had their chance." Charlie is treated with kid gloves throughout the entire series and accidently trips into being correct despite failing at every chance and not putting up any decent points on her end. While Adam's a blatant strawman made just to say, "Heaven bad, Charlie right." And, "Haha, the First Man is a screaming man-child! Take that Christians!!" I just find it funny that a character that's made to be hated turned out better than everyone else by comparison. But also makes it all the more disappointing that there was so much more potential there, but was ruined by incompetence and general malice to the concept at Day 1.

[@videogamerzero1schannel]

Back at it again with an interesting topic & here's my takes of terrible characters written extremely well for a main lead & villain, sorry I don't have anything for a supporting character I can think of at the top of my head also glad you brought up Mao, he's my favorite Disgaea character for what you explained alongside Travis Touchdown but to get back to what I'm saying Main Lead- Haseo from Dot Hack GU, I've brought him up before but I'll do it again because he's a character I understand where he's gone through, being betrayed, eventually losing your online friends but I also know that he acts so rude to everyone at the same time it's to cope with the loss of everything that's happening especially when that involved playing a game that took away his one friend that understands him the most & while it does get messed up how he pushes even the nicest people away like Silibus & Gaspard that was ultimately him thinking he doesn't need anyone else until learning to find more people to count on & save people comatose by AIDA was one of the growths to develop him as a better person Villain- Yuuki Terumi from Blazblue, I'm gonna be up front when I say, he's by far some of the most eviliest characters I've come across in media which is why he's such an effective threat, this man was actually the soul of a corrupt god, Susanoo, that wants to make sure the world will live off of suffering he'll always be feared about, which started by making sure to burn down a church where Ragna lives, corrupting his brother Jin by making him cut Ragna's arm off, steal his sister, Saya, all so Ragna will always remember Terumi with Rent Free Hatred in his head, which also involved torturing Noel later on by making her into Mu-12 for his ultimate grand plan of killing Amaterasu alongside brainwashing Tsubaki with the help of the Impetor, Hades: Izanami, was involved with the Ikaruga Civil War that he mind controlled Jin to start & kill so many people in the process, oh yeah AND was involved with the black beast that now polluted the world, yeah he's super evil & unlikable which it works for making such an effective bad guy as I legit hate him & impressed that the writers managed to make a villain this hatable for me & why I say he's some of the most sinister villains ever made

[@sdbzfan1]

a dot hack and blazblue fan, my people

[@videogamerzero1schannel]

@@sdbzfan1 heh you're welcome

[@ryanm.8720]

What makes Terumi especially noticeable is that he's actively cultivating his status as a 'terrible character', since he relies on the hatred of others to sustain his existence (although this doesn't excuse the fact that he enjoys the destruction he causes). So by hating him, you fell right into his trap.

[@videogamerzero1schannel]

@@ryanm.8720 yup that hate is why he constantly exists and can always be brought back from the dead until Ragna came up with a brilliant plan to make sure the world will never hate Terumi therefore can't be revived and it was so satisfying to see that snake bastard finally put down

[@bluetheberryyy]

Honestly I like Mahito. Though not in a "wow he is so nice" but in "this guz is intresting tell me more" kinda way.

[@leviedds9354]

Well we have Valentino to fill in the spot of a “ most terrible character” so everybody is happy. Besides Adam, he may be responsible for countless deaths of sinners, Is nothing compared to Valentino. While his villainy is light-hearted, Valentino proves to be the opposite.

[@mikonyx7712]

Dude takes every chance he can to sh*t on Viviziepop's work, and it got stale at this point.

[@shoberus4646]

​@@mikonyx7712, what?

[@leviedds9354]

@@mikonyx7712 well alot of people who didn’t like her works done the same thing and it gotten old real quick

[@atalantesimpsonn]

​@@mikonyx7712she should have made a good show then lmao

[@ulurius]

This is because Adam is charismatic, funny and commits crimes that people are desensitized to. Treason? Murder? Genocide? Oh, that's just villain stuff. But Valentino dares to go into sexual and domestic abuse? Ah, despicable! People don't seem to get how fucking awful murder is, that's why they think of Valentino as more evil than any of his genocidal peers.

[@Snoozytube]

Honestly a good example between a "good terrible" character and a "bad terrible" character is Negan from the walking dead and Abby from the last of us 2. Negan actually had charm and a character outside of his impactful moments in the series. He was feeling sorry for the group after killing Abraham and Glenn and had some "wholesome" moments like when he defended Sasha from being wrapped. There are more reasons to despise Negan, but he's actually entertaining especially JDMs performance as him

[@mwelite1706]

Okay this is on topic, The Coffin of Andy and Leyley the titular siblings are terrible people but written in two different amazing ways. Andrew (Andy) is a sociopath that try’s to be normal although is successful until they go on the run and genuinely loves Ashley(leyley) even though he has been blackmailed by leyley since he was a child. Ashley is a girl who has been neglected by her parents and ostracized by her peers and sees herself as unlovable so she manipulates Andrew with the aforementioned blackmail to keep him with her and only her (and will do ANYTHING to keep him around). The game is very apparent that as endearing as their relationship is it’s still mutually abusive co-dependent with both parties being horrible people, but amazing characters.

[@legokirbymanchannel]

What helps, is that everyone who they face off against is just as terrible as they are, including their own parents. So you kind of don't feel bad when these people end up brutalized at the hands of the siblings.

[@xShadowChrisx]

@@legokirbymanchannel aside from the asthmatic girl they locked in a dusty crate...

[@legokirbymanchannel]

@@xShadowChrisx Aside from her. Naturally. But if it wasn't for her we would probably forget that Andrew and Ashley are supposed to be sociopaths.

[@mwelite1706]

Oh yeah, with the exception of the asthmatic girl anyone they go up against deserves them. Exactly!

[@Yalovayahznepomnimena]

Edgy game for edgy teenagers. Bad example

[@misterzygarde6431]

Seeing Mahito in the thumbnail reminds me of this messed up idea for a creepypasta I had where some guy finds a DVD of the villains from the 2004 Batman show violently killing the Jujutsu Kaisen villains.

[@amirgarcia547]

Considering how bonkers the scaling in Jujutsu Kaisen can be, I honestly doubt The Batman villains could even stand a chance against them tbh.💀

[@misterzygarde6431]

@@amirgarcia547 That’s why it’s a creepypasta.

[@willowshake023]

​@@amirgarcia547Ra's Al Ghul maybe has a chance with some of the curses, but I doubt he'll ever go past the Disaster Curses

[@slushe909]

Bro what?? 😭

[@Monkeylighthouse]

How is that creepy? That sounds awesome.

[@joemama1132]

A friend of mine said that Adam was a more "realistic" character than Frollo from Hunchback of Notre Dame. Ideas of how to kill him in his sleep are welcomed

[@N0peto3]

Both characters are one of my fav villians all time ngl

[@joemama1132]

@@N0peto3 ok, but saying that a fairly one-dimensional character is more realistic than a villain that people see irl ALOT, is a stretch

[@kingdingaling6516]

@@joemama1132 That's just a blind Hazbin fan talking. Because to them, Hazbin characters are the greatest things that were ever conceived smh.

[@joemama1132]

@@kingdingaling6516 fax

[@salvadoreusebio7869]

​@kingdingaling6516 Tell you what, Hazbin is meh, but it aint the shitshow that is Helluva boss.

[@ajthewildwolf]

Adam was so wasted. When your character has more depth in nearly every single fanfiction he's been written into, you've got an issue.

[@pjdixon6199]

L opinion

[@ajthewildwolf]

@@pjdixon6199 Listen, I love Adam just the way he is. Poorly written or not, he's still my favorite character. But let's not pretend he has any depth at all. At least not in the show so far. They could still pull a W if they do anything with him in the next seasons.

[@BreadXY]

👍

[@alexanderdavidlocarnogomez3441]

​@@ajthewildwolfwell no W apparently, he is dead forever, confirmed by Vivzie

[@ajthewildwolf]

@@alexanderdavidlocarnogomez3441 Not necessarily. She did confirm we'd see him again. I think she's trying to throw people off the scent cause Adam coming back as a sinner is a super popular theory

[@junkoposter6259]

And yet I still root for Adam, as he was funny. Also Hell is Forever is a bop.

[@hubertberrum6242]

I don't blame you

[@thomashowe1583]

I've viewed Adam from the perspective of how he affects the MC, Charlie. The fact that she can be polite and optimistic about THIS arsehole, means that when you see the very few times she does get angry and lose it, you've seen what WON'T make that character break. Had Adam been more nuanced or even sad/sympathetic, it might make more sense that Charlie wouldn't even have a reason to be angry with him, making the crux moments hit less hard.

[@alexgremlin3680]

I never really cared about Adam, I'm just here for someone to talk about Mahito (one of my favorite baddies ever).

[@Petrico94]

Some line between hate to be around and love to hate. You can connect with a character doing bad things the same way you can be intrigued with an evil character and needs to be defeated. It's a convenient heel for the hero to beat down without worrying what they could be missing out on, they're already set as someone who needs to lose. There are some good villains that have sympathy but they can also get overplayed and complicate the conflict and might not get the right fleshing out. But just making them annoying isn't the same as wanting them to lose, it's wanting them to be out of the series already. Dio is somewhat sympathetic but as the story starts he's already too far gone and you just want to see him get defeated, or see more of him in a fight as it builds up to that.

[@gloweye]

Jack Horner from Puss 'n Boots 2 is a great example of how to properly make a Terrible Character.

[@sleepydoggo154]

For me was Vladimir Makarov from the OG call of duty: modern warfare franchise, bro is the one of - if not - the most effective villain that you would love but also hate.

[@buildingblock1518]

In terms of favorite terrible character written well, I’m gonna go with the Main Man himself, Lobo. Crude rude dude with an attitude. A parody of the dark edgy anti-heroes of the 80’s and 90’s. Some even say he’s a dark reflection of Superman. Both are the last of their respective kinds, they’re both incredibly strong and beat up bad guys. However Superman’s story is about truth, justice, and hope for a better future. Where as Lobo’s is pure debauchery and selfish intent. Plus the over the top presentation makes him all the more awesome

[@geoshark12]

I feel like the reason adam was designed the way he was, is because they were planning to kill him off from the start and have lute as the main antagonist along with sera , and to show that those in heaven are not always good people though this was all at the cost of the character. While i personally like the idea of adam being reincarnated as a demon and having to be redeemed his initial purpose was to be killed off and give lute motivation

[@Solar-2006]

I think Mahito is the perfect villain. One with no redeeming qualities. That's why he's one of my favorite jjk villains. That and because he is pretty strong

[@mitab1]

Adam could have talent the stance of “we have them a life time of chances to change their ways, and they did nothing but sin” What you do in life determines where you’ll end up, the people who spend their lives committing sin should be in hell, and the people who did all they can to be good people go to heaven, simple as that, imagine if you have two students, one was studying and always working to get a good grade, while the other did nothing but party and ignore their work, but after the final exams the failing student get the chance to repeat the tests over and over until they get a full score, and now both students graduate with the same grade, tell me is that fair?, this could have happened Adam some who is completely opposed to redemption after death, Instead of just making him childishly insufferable

[@justaaccount8083]

Hazbin hotel has to be THE WORST written show ive ever watch charlie, adam, alastor, angel dust and so many others contradict their writing so often and not in a good way. Its like vivziepop forgot who she was writing about

[@OdaSwifteye]

She never knew who she was writing about to begin with. She had an art direction, not a story.

[@uroskesic6117]

It s not like when Araki writes Jojo.Sure he is a good artist but he always thinks of the story first and design second

[@justaaccount8083]

@@OdaSwifteye wild considering I watched the show with a friend who does commission art and they near cried with how many scenes where incorrectly sized between shots and how the colour pallet would shift to incorrect shades in the same shot due to the show having no art direction.

[@lachiepeterson807]

My favorite type of villain is mahito. He's really goofy which makes you want to like him, but you just can't because of all the other horrible things he has done.

[@spicynoodles2742]

The thing with characters like Adam in HH, or Freddy in the reamke of Scooby Doo, is that they are so cartoonishly bad, that I end up like them, beause I can't take them seriouly.

[@TheGreatLordDIO]

Mahito really grew on me. He's like a jjk Joker, enjoying the fights, tormenting his opponents for fun, toying with humans as if lives don't matter. And his "You are me" line is really great. The fact that to confirm it he first says he kills humans without thinking while Yuji saves them without thinking, and then brings a valid question to Yuji "Do you know how many curses you've killed? Yeah, me neither". And the end where we see him terrified for the first time is really satisfying. Adam on the other hand is so boring, he's an annoying dick just for the sake of being an annoying dick. There's no depth to his character, just the surface level micro characterisation. And yeah I know there can be "characters" like that but bruh it's the main antagonist of season 1, I'd expect more. Besides, it's ADAM, there's so much potential. As for Dio, he's very well balanced in terms of being a horrible monster and yet a charming leader who can even show respect and compassion.

[@nightmareshadow1420]

A Good Antagonist/Arch enemy should also reflect how the character develops because of them. Mahito DESTROYED Yuji's view and almost broke him if not for Todo's aid, his personality afterword's was a almost complete 180 of how he used too act. He was the natural enemy of Mahito and he developed and became a more cynical person because Mahito caused him too lose people important and break his idealistic beliefs. Yuji went from believing himself a grand happy saviour like a shonen anime to cold and cynical, accepting he was nothing special in the grand scheme, and that loss was inevitable, but still soldiered on regardless, determined too defeat him and keep killing him whenever he returned. Adam... was there, I guess you could say. He did nothing to actually challenge Charlie's worldview except being that asshole strawman too validate her claims and make her look better. She hasn't adapted, he didn't make her change or develop in any way, Charlie is basically the exact same as she was at the start, if not worse. Only thing he did was the whole Vaggie being an exorcist reveal, and even that did more for Vaggie through Carmine than Charlie.

[@pjdixon6199]

L opinion

[@nicolausg7058]

Even despite all of what the showrunner did to his character, Adam was much better written character than 99% of the "heroes", especially in the first episode, where he is at his best. It makes me wander did the writter did her homework, insted of arguing on twitter/x with any people who are criticizing her.

[@ricky.t.1658]

Why is he better than the protagonist? Thats honestly super stupid to say the least

[@meisboi7394]

@@ricky.t.1658 He's better written, more likeable, and less annoying or obtuse than the protagonist. It's not stupid when you consider many studios write shitty, shallow protagonists or have no idea how to write a likeable protagonist. In fact, Adam was easier to sympathize with compared to the protagonist because the protagonist was such an unlikeable, irritating character.

[@ricky.t.1658]

@@meisboi7394 this is the most estupid thing ive read in a while and i usually read tiktok comments

[@artistanthony1007]

​@meisboi7394 Adam treats Charlie a Princess horribly & not give a shxt she's royalty and has a petty grudge because she's not his kid, that's not likable.

[@ParanoidBobby]

@@artistanthony1007 she's pretty much the daughter of his ex that cheated on him, lol

[@ShadowRose822]

I think Adam being a crass, almost sinner like, character is the point. The ending of season 1 ultimately ends with "we don't really know why people go to heaven or hell". I thought it was meant to subvert expectations of what angels are supposed to like in our and Charlie's head. I think the point is he acts just like all the sinners and shows the reasons to be in heaven are vague. That point only re-enforced with the trial when they basically admit they don't know why people go to heaven.

[@Koinoo-q8f]

Honestly mahito is my favorite character of jjk His abilities, his personality and just the general vibe you are supposed to hate him but I can't help but love those kinds of characters (he's my 3rd favorite anime vilian)

[@showerpwner]

Still holding out for Adam getting fleshed out in s2 via flashbacks. I find him hilarious as a villain and theres potential to have the apple betrayal be the catalyst for him to have become the literal psychopath he is now. Hes a mich more fascinating character if you take ths biblical lore into consideration for why hes acting that way. He's also one of the most popular characters in the show for a lot of people because the humor is that we know he's being a cartoonish version of some red pill dude lol .

[@baitreview]

I think Mahito worked as a terrible person because he never imposed a positive goal like Adam. The premise of HB is to get sinners to heaven in order redeem them, meaning that the audience must have at least some perception that heaven is good. If the first person from heaven we meet is the worst person imaginable, then the premise DOES NOT WORK. Curses are immediately set up as an opposing force to Jujutsu sorcerers, meaning that someone established to be part of an evil group acting like a terrible person doesn't break the premise of Jujutsu Kaisen

[@WolfSelkatha2]

I never expected for Mahito and Adam to be in a video thumbnail together lol

[@Nami-pi8wn]

My favorite terrible character is the one that makes a video with dumb comparisons, then realizes that one of them isn't well thought out but continues anyway and concludes with the youtube cultural cowardism of "it's just my opinion". Excellent video.

[@spinjitzumasterfalcon]

Seeing Mahito acting like a coward was the greatest get-back I’ve seen in media

[@6milhõesEm5AnosÉLorota]

But he aways acted like a coward.

[@barrytooth4306]

Mahito became my favourite villain after this line with Yuji : do you remember how many curses you killed ? I bet not, and nether do I” this line is such an amazing showcase of Mahitos character.

[@itsdantaylor]

22:34 Sensei was a COLD one. Man knew that if these kids were exposed for what they did when they were young, they'd get slaps on the wrist at best. Waiting till they were adults, that stuff coming out could ruin their families and careers. He then blackmails them to get revenge on others then blackmails them again with the crimes he coerced them to commit.

[@FeministCatwoman]

"Lost potential" could be the entire dictionary definition for Hazbin Hotel, and basically sums up the whole show. Also Jujutsu Kaisen.

[@verspin]

Thank you! I really like Hazbin Hotel but Adam (who shares my name lol) is such a lame villian. Glad I'm not the only one disliking him as a concept

[@tigerfalco]

I disagree a little on Adam. When I was first introduced to him, I loved him actually. One of those "you love to hate them" kinda characters. To me he was entertaining. Yeah he's crass (everyone in that show except for Charlie, and the Seraphims are). Yes he was misogynistic, a dude bro, etc... but he ate up every scene he was in, he made me laugh, his song was great and he showed a huge amount of personality. I would describe him as a charismatic douchebag. Obviously an asshole, but doesn't leave me hating when theyre on screen. And because of that he plays a nice balance where I enjoy laughing at how ridiculous he is and how others react to him, while also enjoying every time he is taken down a peg cuz it feels cathartic, like when he's saying something sexist and Charlie stabs him. Edit: Similar to how you described say Dexter at the end, where he's being an asshole but it/he's funny enough you dont care, Adam was that for me. And I think the angle of Adam, the first of mankind being egotistical because all humanity descended from him is an interesting way to interpret him. I mean in a sense, you're the progenitor of the most successful animal species on the planet, it makes sense he'd be full of himself. Only thing I can agree on is that due to his lack of layers, it does weaken the nuance a little bit because "Killing souls is entertainment" is such an over the top evil type thing; and due to the lack of layers and nuance even though I'd like to say his death happened too soon, I can't because I can't see what he would've added had he stuck around longer. But on the upside I guess, his death was a bit anti-climactic (the show was rushed so no surprise), and played for laughs which I feel like would be a kick in the face if he'd had more depth...so double edged sword in a way. If you don't like him thats cool, this is just my take.

[@CreatorProductionsOriginal]

My ahh saw Mahito and thought he was that villain from Boku No Hero, I have never been so dissappointed on myself

[@Raccon_Detective.]

Do you mean Shigeraki from MHA?

[@-Craig_Tucker-]

finally i'm happy to hear that someone calls out the shitty villain writting of adam! but saying, the cheapness of making him sexist and a frat boy was pointed out.. 😭😭

[@bearberserker]

I don't like how Adam is portrayed in Hazbin Hotel, but I think there might be some nuance. Adam was sent to Heaven, but we don't know the criteria for exactly letting someone be there. My theory is that Adam might have been virtuous to some degree, and when he came to Heaven, he might not have developed but regressed into his worst trait, causing him to act like he does, as he saw in the series.

[@_PannieCake_]

With Adam, they literally could have brought him back as the perfect guest at the hotel, but they refuse to use him. He could slowly learn to be humbled by mortal souls, see that his blind need to murder isn't fulfilling, and possibly give him a redemption against heaven and have him fight Lute. But no, Vivzie didn't want to do something great. She wants to virtue signal constantly instead of making a flawed character who works to fix a serious flaw.

[@daniellejackson6543]

9:50 as a someone who likes adam as a villain(hell is forever slaps imo and he's pretty funny at times) that is a very interesting alternative version. Instead of seeing sinners as lesser because he's a garbage person, he sees them as lesser because he worked for paradise and the fact that the sinners went the paths they did despite Adam setting an example of what not to do for the rest of humanity. Maybe he doesn't believe in redemption because he genuinely believes it is too late for them. Honestly a motivation like this could make him both nuanced and a despicable pure evil villain.

[@Draslyn]

Happy Chaos and BedMan from guilty Gear Happy Chaos is a very interesting character as he is "too pure". he knows so much that good and evil cease to exist to him, and he has great points to think about, like this quote: "What came first, the chicken? or the egg. you know the question, but do you know the answer? The answer, is the Omelet. The omelet gives the chicken and the egg a reason to exist. so as long as you exists, you are needed." BedMan is also a Greatcharacter as he has the best intentions to destroy and remake reality so that he and his sister can live normal lives instead of being burdened to die if they stay awake too long due to their brains function ing so incredibly highly, that it would basically burn up and they would die. He eneds up working with bad people, realising that he was manipulated and does one final thing to help his sister before he dies. PLEASE, please listen to his theme "the circle" and thoroughly read the lyrics too, as it has 2 interpretations for when bedman was thinking this. either A: in the moments before he was killed, or afterwards, with him stuck in limbo due to having good intentions, but bad choices.

[@andymcclurg9916]

I'll admit I was sadder for Mahito's death than Nanami's because he represented the themes of the series and had the most intense relationship with Yuji out of all the villains, and he was always immensely entertaining to watch with unique powers and great voice actors

[@I_Love_Tekken3]

Oh boy I haven’t watched one of your vids in a WHILE

[@TOEndire]

Aaaaaaaaaactually Mahito's ideals are all about the fact of primordial emotion. Cursed Spirits are SUPPOSED to feed off of and kill humans, so he goes completely into it. He believes (and fairly rightly so), that its simple, Cursed Spirits kill humans, and Jujutsu Sorcerers kill Cursed Spirits. THAT'S what he believes, and he's not exactly wrong. He is a curse, just like he said.

[@LilyWhitesLK]

What I also like about mahito is that we are also SHOWN him doing ‘normal’ stuff, like who doesn’t want to play soccer with their friends? Plus he also gets some comedic shoots like how one of the protagonist would. And I like to consider in is that mahito at the start was immature and that he was going through a ‘character development’ LIKE HOW A MAIN CHARACTER WOULDD!

[@ShoeLobster45]

he was playing soccer with jogos head

[@LilyWhitesLK]

@@ShoeLobster45 Hey, he was still playing with his 'friends' wasn't he?

[@fiascothe63rd]

6:33 I will say, you get a nice good look at Ann's face as she realizes she's gonna be alone with him in that car, and for me at least, that was a really good cue for how things were going to go.

[@Perdix64]

I actually just noticed that, that’s actually quite surprising.

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

Demon Slayer I think is an interesting beast as logically you should hate all the demons but the series also plays with nuiance in that while some like Enmu, Hantengu and Gyokko were horrible from the start and just became worse as demons, others like Gyutaro, Daki and especially Akaza became demons out of desperation due to circumstances they had no control over, thus you on some level understand their reasoning and even want to see them get another shot as while they were horrible you also aks wouldn't you be just as awful if put in their shoes.

[@malikpierre-louis3343]

My problem with the sympathetic demons from demon slayer is that their backstory is only revealed when they are close to death instead of slowly being told to us. So when their backstory is revealed its kinda shallow since its so last minute.

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

@@malikpierre-louis3343 That is one of the flaws of the series and I think I know why it's shown at the end. As if it was shown earlier we'd sympathize more with the demons and want Tanjiro to try and redeem them

[@sdbzfan1]

@@thefanwithoutaface8105 i think thats on purpose the mc doesn't know their blight, so the backstory is for the audience not the characters Tanjuro shouldnt care what life they lived, they're demons now and have to die but in seeing who they used to be we as an audience see that life was cruel, a great example is Gyutaro, he doesn't regret his actions but he does regret Daki having to follow him, if she could be given another chance he'd let her and leave himself rotting in hell while doesn't want to be anyway except with her brother showing that in the end they both accept some form of responsibility for the bad they've done but were fine with it for the sake of the other They dont need to be redeemed, simply remembered that they too like anyone else was human

[@billyboleson2830]

@@malikpierre-louis3343 D Gray Man basically does the same concept but way better