HEMA | SPECTACULAR Rapier and Dagger Sparring (Swordfish 2018)

[@michaelross1464]

So this is some of the best coverage of sparring as a sport that I have seen. Still, I'd advise watching "world chase tag" to see how, still with a limited budget and venue, multiple camera angles can increase the viewer experience. I sooo want HEMA to be a more widely recognized sport. Please keep the great content coming.

[@TheMountainMan001]

Never heard of or seen world chase tag until this day (31/01/2022), and wow am I entertained. The tension, the sportsmanship, the nimbleness and speed…. Incredible

[@londiniumarmoury7037]

2:36 This is a perfect attack.

[@naii2481]

Very cool! Can't stop watching videos from this channel

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

Thank you, Gena! Glad you enjoy the content! :)

[@levifontaine8186]

This is some of the first actual rapier fighting I’ve seen in a tournament. Most “rapier fencing” in HEMA is very poorly done. But this is spectacular and you can actually recognize techniques from the historic manuscripts.

[@tarquiniussuperbus21]

Don't you think that they kill each other all the time?

[@maxl3189]

@@tarquiniussuperbus21 every exchange would probably lead to death of both participants without ppe

[@tarquiniussuperbus21]

True

[@thepalestinianjew230]

@@maxl3189 As in real life it often would

[@maxl3189]

@@thepalestinianjew230 the fighting back then was alot different to now, they followed manuscripts heavily

[@AKBerryz]

Both fighters seem very athletic, quick and accurate, but those poor daggers are just sitting there forgotten haha. I get the feeling both of these guys train more solo rapier than rapier/dagger. It seems they're trying to get as close as they can and then lunge in hard to hit before their opponent can react. It works pretty well if you have a large reach advantage but if you're looking to survive I'd recommend staying out of middle measure and using the dagger to trap (or at least displace) the opponents blade before attacking.

[@drhputra1635]

There is no 'before' in rapier & dagger. You do it simultaneously. Different with rapier only attack as shown on 2:45 that bind the rapier before thrust. But I agree that they kinda forgot that they're hoding dagger on their off hand

[@alexcreek9370]

for those who know how to use rapier well, dagger seem to be a unneeded historic rudiment

[@biobomb93]

I totally agree, i'd even say if they used the dagger many "Double deaths" (when both hit each others) could have been avoided, but still, it is good to see people try to implement such style and the fight was nice to watch.

[@huleyn135]

Mostly because even in history, the dagger was abandoned in favor a smaller single sword

[@carlosgracia9888]

@@huleyn135 In history, dagger and rapier were abandoned when pistols apear.

[@LissomeMatrix]

Actually both are from St.Petersburg.

[@iamscoutstfu]

But were the thrusts beautiful?

[@christopherrowley7506]

7:06 "At this point it's a Toin Coss" hahaha is it just me or did he actually say that?

[@stropheum]

Heard that and looked through the comments for this

[@aceofr3ap3r21]

The moderator: its a toin coss Nobody: Literally nobody: Geralt: Am I a joke to you

[@joseignaciohileradorna5122]

Better than previous years but still suicidal

[@chickengod100]

Rules define the tactics of battle.

[@joseignaciohileradorna5122]

@@chickengod100 Cant argue with that. But we should strive to be more elegant in our fencing

[@chickengod100]

I will try to chew my arguments for you with childish examples. Compare battle shackled in armor of a soldier and an untimely warrior. On how much armored warrior will feel freer to attack straighter? And so in this case, they know that they will not die, and they need to win, because this is a sport, not reconstruction. If you manage to ask these fighters to imitate a real fight, as if they could die, the result will be different.

[@stropheum]

@@joseignaciohileradorna5122 I agree. I don't think points should be awarded to a player for poking with the dagger after you got a full thrust to the face. The point system is supposed to represent how effectively you can use the weapon. You shouldn't be able to score points after a situation where you would be dead, that's what persuades people into the suicidal point fighting styles

[@chopstick1671]

@@stropheum the thing is people dont drop dead if they are for example stabbed in the shoulder, or even the head really; the rule of the afterblow then is more realistic and made especially to stop suicidal behaviour we often see in modern olympic fencing, not counting who hit first, but who hit the safest.

[@hallowstar4857]

Imagine the amount of stabbing that would follow any of these rounds if this were a real sword fight to take out your opponent, I can't imagine a scenario where they wouldn't both die

[@christopherrowley7506]

In a real sword fight they would be even more cautious. You don't frantically stab because that would make it more likely for you to get stabbed. In a tournament with protective gear there is more incentive to prioritize hitting over not getting hit. In real life there is more incentive to prioritize not getting hit over hitting. Both parties of a duel dying did happen but I doubt it was the standard.

[@temmy9]

The techniques would be very different. The fact is you cannot actually simulate a swordfight in a tournament situation without the fear of death.

[@christopherrowley7506]

@@temmy9 you are right, definitely not perfectly. You could change the rules a little bit to make it closer that direction though. It would be interesting to see a tournament where you only have 1 life. So if you hit your opponent, he is out for the rest of the tournament. and if you fail to void or block his counter blow you also are out of the tournament. Certainly would make people fight a lot different.

[@temmy9]

it would degenerate into tippytap hand and leg sniping.

[@christopherrowley7506]

@@temmy9 you would have to rely on competent judges to decide what was a legitimate cut. A legitimate cut to the hand or leg certainly could take you out of a real fight. But just a little poorly aligned flick may do close to no damage at all. you're right in critique though: you can't have a perfect set of rules that recreates a real fight because people will always seek to exploit the rules resulting in an unrealistic fight.

[@microadam1082]

7:06 ah yes the dreaded toin coss.

[@5HT_Ronin]

I'm quite ignorant of HEMA but can someone comment on whether this style of competition is anywhere near the way HEMA is taught through the manuals etc? It seems a lot more like modern fencing in terms of stances etc. I understand the necessity of a dueling system where the lack of any real risk of physical harm modifies techniques. Does that reflect my observations?

[@scottmacgregor3444]

I would have to agree. They aren't constraining very well, which is resulting in a lot of afterblows. In fact they just aren't worrying about defending against the opponent's sword at all for most of the exchanges.

[@kobe.talamantez]

Rapier evolved into the Smallsword which evolved into Epee, and the Foil, which is the fencing weapon. Fencing is derived from this tradition. That's why it seems similar, but it will not look similar to Longsword or Sword & Buckler HEMA, for example.

[@aceofr3ap3r21]

Wait did I saw clearly... that was Bonettas defense with wich he defended huh?

[@BlackMasterRoshi]

what's the guy with the pole for? to break them up if they get into a squabble?

[@itinerantpoet1341]

I think it's nice to see expanded weapons, such as rapier and dagger, and open fencing as opposed to a strictly linear course, but this sport has a loooooooooooooong way to go before it's going to be at the level of Olympic fencing.

[@스페로우-b7y]

Why don t rapier dagger compete with longsword? R them too strong?

[@pnkfrd]

The two are incomparable in terms of sport. A rapier and dagger versus a long sword would not be a fair fight. There is mixed HEMA which is like what you are talking about but it is less common.

[@스페로우-b7y]

@@pnkfrd which one is superior?

[@user-ks7nb2jd6k]

Both fencers are from Saint-Petersburg! Fencing school Tramazzone is located in Saint-Petersburg too! Please correct somehow this information! Thank you!

[@h4ckrun246]

Sorry for the question I’m new around here, but what does the stick do? I mean in which case the referee uses this?

[@doktordanomite9105]

It can be hard too hear in protective gear especially while in the thick of it the stick is a way that the ref can separate them without getting hit

[@tengizoniani5029]

To smack the competitor, if one uses illegal move.

[@DrakeRD1]

Леша Перков - Москва?? Хм =))

[@itinerantpoet1341]

There was some nice work here, but it's essentially the same as FIE, just with expanded types of weapons. I don't see this as any more "real" than FIE. Like FIE, there are a huge number of mutual strikes, which is a function of a safe sport with no consequences.

[@itinerantpoet1341]

Possibly my view is distorted by the claims of North American HEMA where there seem to be no expert instructors, practitioners don't train hard, and yet call every extant sword art fake.

[@itinerantpoet1341]

I think if there were consequences, the strategy would be more conservative, fencers wouldn't launch into attacks they couldn't guarantee, and there would be more emphasis on learning to control the opponent's blade definitively before striking, which is very, very difficult.

[@Boggsy.]

4:55 I thought Rob Roy killed this dude?

[@Erbatorium]

Але ну как там с поединками

[@Whit3Hardstyler]

I am literally just seeing olympic fencing here. No one is utilizing mechanical advantage, nor parrying or keeping themselves safe afterwards. They're also no play on tempo. Both fighters just waited until the other was in range and went for a running lunge.

[@bigmoz9900]

thats bc its the peak of fencing. Everything becomes epee

[@dragonwithamonocle]

In reality, every time these two clash, they both would have died.

[@borislavkrustev8906]

In reality and practice, you are a moron. There were plenty of good, clean actions. Go fence in a tourney, get to the gold match, and see how cleanly you will fight.

[@iacopoiacoponi1983]

Totally agree.

[@martialfarts4509]

@LUNAR BLOODDROP Each to his own, I can definitely see the advantages of the cut however the thrust is my preferred way of attacking :)

[@thetwelfth9987]

With arrrrmor on?

[@umartdagnir]

Yes, fighting with a sword is a bad idea, you might end up dead.

[@Gguy061]

Historical accuracy is great and all, but it makes for lots of interruption in the action. If we want the public to be engaged, its gotta be continuous action. Yes. In real life, this would end really quickly. But I would argue combat sport isn’t about being realistic. Boxing and MMA aren't realistic. A real street fight, there are no gloves. There's no octagon and no ring. A real punch means a broken hand, and as soon as a face hits concrete, it means a KO. We wouldn’t expect strict realism from boxing or MMA, and they draw huge crowds. At some point, its gotta be about putting on a show. It certainly hasn't held back professional wrestling

[@TheCota700]

se tendría que decir Alta Destreza Española

[@bypyros1933]

Esto no es Verdadera destreza

[@benjaminslaughter1440]

ooooooh. so it's like epee but you also have a sabre. got it

[@irfannurhadisatria2540]

Yeah rapier is the big daddy to all three of MOF swords. Sidesword/rappier is the linkage between thrust heavy rapier and cut heavy military sabre as well

[@Madao116]

0:09 он сказал это)

[@HadoukenSpammer]

Sor Gay vs Alexey.

[@btr152]

I would like to see these guys fencing Olympic epee. Then we would clearly see who's worth what.

[@bigmoz9900]

Depends on the level but most well developed epeeists (not even necessarily competitive) would win