Hemi Swap Wiring Pt2 - Start and Ignition - Mongrels Garage - EP 38

[@cjs9477]

hello there just got a quick question, so i have a 2010 harness that c1 pin 30 wire needs to go to the starter relay correct? and if so what side? thanks!!!!

[@MongrelsGarage]

First, thanks for watching. You will need to add pin 30 to the C1 connector in the 2010 Harness. The wire will get 12v from the start switch/key (start position). It does not go to the relay. The Green and Orange wire on the C3 connector pin 38 goes to the ground on the control side of the relay...depending how you have it wired up, that will be 86 or 85 on the relay.

[@cjs9477]

@@MongrelsGarage thanks for the video and reply, just so I got this right you pin the c1 30 then wire it to your start switch so It gets power when you turn the key on?

[@MongrelsGarage]

@@cjs9477 Correct, it gets power when the key is turned to the start position.

[@MongrelsGarage]

If you are using a switch with push button start, the switch will provide power to the button and pin 30 will be connected to the other side of the button.

[@cjs9477]

@@MongrelsGarage thanks im trying to add a pin to 30 but its not going in all the way its also very tight

[@wewemcflee]

This helped a Lot with my hemi swap in the 2nd gen dakota explaining how it powers up helped make the paperwork make more sense I appreciate your videos

[@MongrelsGarage]

That’s great! Awesome that it helped you, sounds like a cool swap! Thank you for letting me know, comments like yours help to motivate me to get a couple more videos done.

[@spartan1876]

I was curious on how I'd go about adding the nag1 to it. From what I've seen it requires the abs module, bcm, gas pedal in addition to the obvious pcm and tcm to allow the trans to shift. Thanks for the help. Wish there was a way to search the comments for this if already asked.

[@MongrelsGarage]

I can honestly say I’ve have not done much research, I know it can be done but the NAG 1 does require 4 wheel speed input as well to work correctly.

[@spartan1876]

@@MongrelsGarage that's what I was seeing. I saw that it needed at least the rear two speed sensor didn't need all four to shift. I think I'll just throw a 727 in it or a 46re with 48re internals out of a cummins trans. Thanks for the help didn't know if you attempted to swap one in or not

[@MongrelsGarage]

If you could find a 66RFE at a reasonable price that would be a cool option, size of a 545RFE with 68RFE internals@@spartan1876

[@rodriguezluisu87]

Thanks for this kind of video! Im doing a swap myself! Something a little different but still the same concept. Audi A4 hemi and 545rfe swap

[@MongrelsGarage]

Cool project, thank you for watching the video!

[@chapmanracing1206]

Nice information. Did I miss part 3? I'm only seeing the 2 parts

[@MongrelsGarage]

@@chapmanracing1206 No, you’re not missing it. I have not made it…yet. These videos did not get a lot of interest when I first made them so I moved on to different stuff. I do plan on coming back and making a more comprehensive video as I have been getting a lot of requests now. Thank you for the comment! Have a fantastic day.

[@chapmanracing1206]

@MongrelsGarage I think it's because they were harder to get ahold of a few years ago and spendy. I know they really just started really becoming available in salvage yards here. I'm doing a gen 3 hemi swap on a D150

[@EYE_SPIDER]

Very cool!!!! Very educational I love it!!! Thank you brotha!!!!

[@MongrelsGarage]

Almost makes you want to put a Hemi in Frank I bet 🤪

[@EYE_SPIDER]

@@MongrelsGarage lol almost ha ha

[@UpNorthCatsFan]

THANK YOU soo much for this, I bought a GPEC 5.7 harness to make backwards compatible with the 09-12 NGC PCM and found no help anywhere when it came to figuring out if the PCM actually needed to receive that ground input in park or neutral. Also, thank you for mentioning that C1 Pin 30 needed be be pinned or else it would never start.

[@MongrelsGarage]

No problem, so happy it helped you. Make sure you also check out DIY Hemi as well, they are great and have a lot of information

[@MongrelsGarage]

I do have an update to some of this information as well, if you have HP tuners you can do an independent start circuit even with the 09-12 PCM. Don’t need to pin the PCM

[@UpNorthCatsFan]

@@MongrelsGarage I have, their videos are what made me take the leap into buying the harness to mod in the first place and their website helped me double check my excel spread sheet converting my GPEC harness pinout to the NGC pinout. I would like to ask you a question though. I see you didn't mention anything about the PCM needing to be flashed over to a manual file, does it matter if its a manaul or auto pcm when it comes to getting the engine to start?

[@MongrelsGarage]

Honestly I have not played around with that, however I don’t believe it should. The bigger thing with the manual file will be compensating for the loading and unload of the engine when the clutch is engaged and disengaged. The engine should run on either file as it should treat neutral (manual) and park (auto) the same.

[@UpNorthCatsFan]

@@MongrelsGarage Thank you, I only asked because a lot of the newer cars (in the gm world at least) the ecm would need to speak with the bcm and then the tcm over canbus for the engines to start, and this process would need to be disable using HPtuners, if you didn't have the bcm. but it would seem the 5.7L controlled by the ngc pcms aren't that complicated. Again thank you for these videos

[@JNMoodyPhotography]

Glad I found these! I am building a 5.7 for a retired Winston Cup car. Do you know a source for the internal diagram of the TIPM? I use Mitchell for schematics but can't find the internal relay drawings.

[@MongrelsGarage]

Unfortunately I don’t know of anywhere that has that specific information. That being said you don’t really need a TIPM for a swap. You can use a generic fuse and relay box. There are only a few relays you will need. ASD, Fuel Pump, Starter, all others become optional depending on equipment you install. The other complication with TIPMs is they are a module and will often need to be coded to the vehicle or PCM

[@glenmiller3783]

Great video.

[@MongrelsGarage]

Thanks Glen, how is the 28 coming along?

[@glenmiller3783]

@@MongrelsGarage really good, motor and transmission mounts are done. Working on a new set of headers

[@MongrelsGarage]

@@glenmiller3783 That’s awesome, looking forward to seeing the progress!

[@TheSummit02]

I’m using a 05 truck harness and PCM, does the neutral safety wire (yellow/DRB need to be grounded, I can’t get mine to fire, I don’t have injectors or coil power, I have fuel and start because I’m using the factory fuel pump relay but controlling it with the 05 pcm ground and factory start signal on my 87 c10 swap. Also you said you are going to do a ASD relay wiring video, can you give a time frame on when it will be out. Your videos are very informative thanks for your commitment to them.

[@MongrelsGarage]

Sorry I don’t have a time frame for the ASD relay video yet, I have a few other projects I’m trying to get done first. As for you not have coils or injectors, let’s see if we can figure that out. Did disable the SKIM? What are you using to tune the PCM?

[@TheSummit02]

@@MongrelsGarage pcm has no skim 05, runs in another swap vehicle. I will be tuning with HP tuners but at this time I’m trying to get it running with jumpers then wire in my ASD relay and trans relay, in other words I just want it to fire and run.

[@MongrelsGarage]

@@TheSummit02 Sorry for the delayed response, did you get the engine to fire?

[@TheSummit02]

@@MongrelsGarage I know your busy with your projects it ok I appreciate your time. I did not as of yet. Still been going through the harness checking to make sure I’m not missing something.

[@MongrelsGarage]

@@TheSummit02 I know in my other video on hemi wiring, I have a chat with someone in comments about the ASD relay and the wiring if you can find it. Otherwise find me on Instagram and send me a message…we will see if we can figure it out

[@Jeff-h9i7m]

Love the videos!! You talk at the end about videos on wiring the ASD and fuel relay. Can you please tell me where i can find those videos?

[@MongrelsGarage]

Hello, unfortunately I have not made them yet. However I have had some discussion about it in the chat for the videos. Is there something specific you were looking for?

[@Jeff-h9i7m]

Yes, i am doing a swap into my 71 roadrunner, and your videos are so detailed and helpful, that it would be also be helpful to have a video for the ASD and the fuel relay also. Its all a little intimidating to me, but i believe with your video, i am going to be able to get it done.

[@MongrelsGarage]

@@Jeff-h9i7m Sorry, when I first made these they didn’t get many views so I moved on to other content. With the recent interest though, I do plan on doing the other two videos, but it might take me a bit as I have a few projects I’m trying to get done. Biggest thing to remember is the computer controls the relay using the ground. There are two sides to the relay a control side (low amps) this is what the PCM provides ground for and power side (higher amps), this powers the system. If you get the pin outs from the connector site I provide in the two current videos you should be able to get it sorted

[@Jeff-h9i7m]

Thanks for the advice and thanks for the great videos. Ill be watching for the others.

[@MongrelsGarage]

@@Jeff-h9i7m Thank you for watching and commenting!

[@strange_daiz]

Have you worked on the newer 2015 PMC? I bought a 345 wire kit from Mopar and am sideways on my project. Not able to overcome my fuel issue. Have pressure and power to injector, no fuel injector trigger pulses.

[@MongrelsGarage]

@@strange_daiz sorry I have not worked with the 2015 and up. I believe they need physical modifications to be tuneable. Sublime technologies (DIY Hemi) does have some experience with them I believe, have you tried getting in touch with them

[@strange_daiz]

@@MongrelsGarage Thank you, I will look for em. I have collected a few connectors to make a setup like you did. Will see see what happens. Thanks for your video, it helped me overcome my fears.

[@miketasimmons]

Hello,I get a lot from your videos ty well explained. Im currently in the middle of a Hemi swap.Will your hemi swap wiring diagram videos get me past the chip key and transponder issue? Thanx for your time!I'm all wired up with a no crank no start and security light goes out.ive had to change harness and PCM due to a fire B4 this swap...

[@MongrelsGarage]

No I don’t cover the SKIM, but this does kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGHOiayOhst2gsksi=9PWi2o67Qt6UVTFz

[@lennymunroe7455]

hello there, awesome video! was wondering if you ever tested disabling the starter relay in HP Tunes to do a independent starting circuit on 09+ PCM's. if this does work, I assume you don't need to worry about adding pin 30 to the C1 connector? Thanks!

[@MongrelsGarage]

Unfortunately, no I have not tested that yet…it’s on the list of things to play with.

[@lennymunroe7455]

@@MongrelsGarage no problem. Since my swap already has a working starter circuit, I am going to try and disable it in HP tunes and see how it goes. I'll let you know how I make out. Thanks again for these videos! super helpful.

[@lennymunroe7455]

So, my 2009 ram hemi swap is up and running. I can confirm that disabling the starter relay in HP tunes does not work unfortunately. Pin 30 in the C1 connector must be both pinned and used in 2009 and up swaps. However, you do not have to use the PCM for the starting circuit. I used my original stand alone starting circuit from the truck and ran a wire off my starter solenoid to the PCM (Pin 30). I guess to summarize, all you need to do is supply 12 volts (Cranking) to pin 30 and your good to go.

[@MongrelsGarage]

@lennymunroe7455 awesome, thank you for the update!

[@electricbarbering]

Your video is absolutely amazing! Thank you for your energy you put into this. I have a 2016 RAM hemi with an 8hp70 trans that I plan to run with the stock pcm. Would all of these principles work with my setup? Is the GPEC computer any harder or easier to use? I can’t find information on that and DIYhemi has removed their info on this from their site.

[@MongrelsGarage]

Thank you for your comment! The GPEC is definitely a little more tricky, and I have not really played around with them. One think I know for sure is you will have to send it to someone one to unlock it. I believe 2015 and up require specific knowledge and tools to unlock them for open tuning and they will need to be sent to someone that has that ability. After the unlock is done you will be able to do some custom tuning with a compatible tuning software. Unfortunately I don’t have much experience with GPEC to provide any specific knowledge. I believe HP tuners and Sublime Technologies(DIYHEMI) do offer the unlock service. Wish I could be of more help, I wish you the best of luck, sounds like an awesome project. Please feel free to update me

[@electricbarbering]

@@MongrelsGarage thank you so much for the information. I’ll keep digging around, I’m sure I’ll be able to make it work one day. I’ll for sure let you know how it goes. Thanks again

[@LifelineKustoms]

Could you use a 2014 PCM for the 2016?

[@MongrelsGarage]

@LifelineKustoms Can you get a 2016 Engine to run using a 2014 computer? Yes. Is it pretty much plug and play…not sure, I haven’t played with those generations of PCM much

[@vincentking8267]

Where's the ASD relay and fuel pump relay videos?

[@MongrelsGarage]

Sorry, they have not been made yet. However I have discussed some of it in the comments for this video and in the part 1 video. Also if you have and specific questions feel free to ask.

[@leeminiaci]

Anything for wiring a gas pedal

[@MongrelsGarage]

Hello, if you're using the truck PCM like I am the "APP" is short for the accelerator pedal circuit. Go to the following site connectors.dcctools.com/home.htm, look up the year and make of your vehicle. The white connector will have the wires you're looking for "Module-powertrain Control C3 - Black/Natural" pins 16 and 17 were ground on mine, pin 25 is signal 1 and pin 36 is signal 2. The pedal itself is "Sensor-Accelerator Pedal Position - Black" on the same site. Pin 1 is "5 volt supply", pin 2 is "APP signal 1", pin 3&4 are ground 1&2, pin 5 is "APP signal 2" and pin 6 is "5 volt supply". Hope that helps you out!

[@jerememcmahan3756]

I'm sorry to bother you, I'm trying to hemi swap my old car, and I'm having a really hard time with the wiring, I'm trying to use the under the hood fuse box the factory harness came with, any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Sorry it's a 2005 durango 5.7l

[@MongrelsGarage]

Hello, is there a specific issue you are having trouble with and have you watched both videos I have so far, I go through some of the basic wiring in the first video and how to figure what each wire is for.

[@RobertSpencer-zw1cl]

besides complete harness from doner car what else to I need to control trans shifting getting ready to get rid of car Thank You

[@MongrelsGarage]

Hello Robert, I tend to play with the trucks, cars a little different. To the best of my knowledge though the cars have a separate transmission control, I believe it’s under the dash area. The shifter would be a good thing to hold onto for now as well. The other question I have is what transmission you have, if it’s the NAG 1 you are going to need a few things, as that transmission requires all 4 wheel speed sensors and a couple other tricks to make it work. Sorry I can’t be of more help, but I just have not played with the cars enough

[@RobertSpencer-zw1cl]

@@MongrelsGarage that being said can turn off speed sensors

[@MongrelsGarage]

I don’t believe that is an option for the NAG 1, it needs to see wheel speed inputs

[@RobertSpencer-zw1cl]

@@MongrelsGarage thank you I have to research the trans id

[@MarkSologub]

I have a1989 Dodge Shelby Dakota that has a 2004 truck 5.7 hemi.The truck runs fine, the problem is i need to wire a check engine light to the truck to work at least 1 time for the LAB guy at reno dmv, one that goes on and off when starting truck. Can you please help. If you're close to Reno I will pay you to do it. Again please help Thxx

[@MarkSologub]

I have a painless light that has 2 wires coming from it, now I'm wondering how I will get ur message,wondering if I should send email?

[@cjs9477]

one more question for ya you said pin 11,12 are for key ignition but my harness only has pin 10 fused + and pin 11 run/start relay output, i dont have any pinouts for key ignition on this harness? thanks again!

[@MongrelsGarage]

I just want to confirm you have the 2010 ram harness, is that correct?

[@cjs9477]

@@MongrelsGarage 2010 challenger 6.1

[@MongrelsGarage]

Okay, in the videos I use the truck wiring. But let’s see what we can figure out.

[@MongrelsGarage]

Physically on the connector is there a red wire in pin 10?, is there a pink wire with a light green stripe in pin 11? Is there anything in pin 12?

[@cjs9477]

@@MongrelsGarage yes pin 10 is red pin 11 is pink/light green and there is nothing in 12

[@coryangle1852]

hey got a quick question, dont know if you ever ran into this maybe its just a setting in the computer thats messing me up but i have a hemi and computer out of a 2006 dodge ram 1500 i am swapping into an old first gen ram and i have the wiring hooked up but when i hook both pink wires (ignition run, start and ignition off run start) the starter will engage and disengage rapidly in the run position. i have checked my connection wires to confirm which ones go hot in run and start and as far as i can tell it should be just like in your video. any ideas?

[@MongrelsGarage]

Sounds like you are getting a voltage input to your starter relay. The 06 does not need to have the starter circuit go through the computer so you can make it independent. Otherwise you will have to figure out where the voltage is coming from.

[@coryangle1852]

@@MongrelsGarage When i used the computer i would get it to fire run a few seconds and die (had skim checked out and its disabled) so im assuming the ASD was shutting it down for some reason. never tested out bypassing that relay yet. when i tried independent starter circuit i lost injector pulse signal from the computer. i still had the start signal hooked to the computer. is that not suppose to be when running independent? and i didnt disable the starter relay in the computer but i was under the understanding that didnt matter for the 2006.

[@MongrelsGarage]

@coryangle1852 I would try disabling it, the reason the start signal goes thru the computer is to avoid crash engagement of the starter when the engine is already running. If the computer thinks the starter is still engaged it may shut down the engine…just a theory though

[@coryangle1852]

@@MongrelsGarage Update. the skim wasnt fully disabled so it was still shutting down. the guy i had do my programming found an option in HB tuners to "disable skim for retrofit" that did the trick. thanks for the help

[@MongrelsGarage]

Awesome glad to hear you got it sorted out!@@coryangle1852

[@cjs9477]

what gauge wire did you use on the relays? thanks

[@MongrelsGarage]

I used 14 gauge on the power side, you could likely use 16 though. On the control (85 and 86) side you could drop down to 18 gauge.

[@kirbywinters1291]

I have a 5.7 hemi from a 2009 car. It has the engine harness with it but I don’t have the PCM or any of the connectors that go to the PCM. Can I use that harness from any vehicle or does it have to come from the car?

[@MongrelsGarage]

Hello, you can use other harnesses, a very good resource is DIYHemi.com. They can also provide you with a PCM and stand a lone harness

[@kirbywinters1291]

@@MongrelsGarage Even for the 2009 engine because they only have the 2005-2008 car harness listed on their site.

[@MongrelsGarage]

@@kirbywinters1291 I am pretty sure they have the newer ones now too, might have to get in touch with them directly

[@RobertSpencer-zw1cl]

where do you get program for laptop

[@MongrelsGarage]

You buy it from HP tuners, then they sell credits (takes 2 credits, should come with 2 when you buy the equipment and program) to unlock & tune individual PCMs. If this is a one time deal it might honestly come out as a wash cost and effort wise between a stand-alone (Holley Terminator system, Sublime technologies A.K.A DIYHEMI) or a recycled OEM system. If you plan on more then one build the OEM system will be cheaper in the long run.

[@asmiruskovic2489]

I have a problem with the wiring. How can I contact you

[@MongrelsGarage]

You can find me on Instagram, or there is email information in my about page

[@RobertSpencer-zw1cl]

Can't I just plug original pcm back in and use that way instead of reprogramming the pcm As I said I have all original wiring ect...

[@MongrelsGarage]

There are a few “if’s” it might work. If it doesn’t have SKIM enabled, if the starter is not controlled thru the CAN Bus (yours is likely fine). Also what transmission are you using? Are you going to run the Cats? If not you will should tune out the rear O2 sensors. You can always try to plug and play provided you have power and grounds where you need them it should run, might not run optimally but should start. The power for the injectors and coils come from the ASD relay though, the control comes from the PCM, the power for the fuel pump comes from the relay, the control comes from the PCM, the power for the starter comes from the relay, the control may or may not come from the PCM.

[@RobertSpencer-zw1cl]

@@MongrelsGarage Lm going to run a standard trans,probably run after market fuel pump also

[@jesse7712]

Be nice if you draw out the circuit. Wires everywhere and have to replay the video thousand times