Hercules, Disney's Beautiful Hot Mess: a Video Essay

[@demint5664]

Once I saw this comment that said “the biggest historical inaccuracy that Disney has ever committed is portraying Zeus as a happy family man” and that gets me every time

[@demint5664]

@@wise_girl9388 the way you say it makes Hera sound super interesting, jsksjsk. I’m not very versed in Greek mythology, tho, so I’m sure it’s not as fun as I imagine:(

[@Trollestiatumblur]

And making Hades to be a bad guy! This is all because of Christianity.

[@adeepdive_8205]

@@demint5664 so, Hera is a very interesting mythological figure, but not in a heroic way. she was forced to marry her brother Zeus (f*cking d*psh*t motherf*cker) and had three children with him: Hephaistos, Ares, and Hebe. Unlike other gods, she didn't sleep with literally everyone in the world, she stayed relatively loyal to Zeus. Hera agreed to marry Zeus since after he was rejected for the 100th time, he took the form of a small bird in a storm so she would pity him and bring him within her chambers; when she did so, he changed back into a human and raped her. She felt impure due to that event, so she finally agreed to marry him. She's also known for taking revenge on literally every single lover Zeus had (she was somewhat justified): she turned one into a bear, another into a cow (indirectly), and made a large serpent chase a woman in labor for two years. There is so much to talk about, but unfortunately, I have to go. Yeah, i suggest you read her wiki page or something, she's interesting.

[@Molly-tv5sv]

@@adeepdive_8205 well she even came to represent marriage and monogamy both because of the faithfulness and the revenge :)

[@adeepdive_8205]

@@Molly-tv5sv yeah, that too

[@PhoenixDemon94]

like it or hate it, Disney's Hercules did do something right. they managed to summarize about 90% of Greek mythology with 5 simple words "-and then along came Zeus"

[@exkobri558]

JuggerNuts1994 God... as someone who’s in a mythology class in high school, you just explained more than what I learned this past month.

[@mistahspoke9281]

too bad it wasn't rated R or we'd get everything from greek myths...Mostly Zeus fucking everything in sight

[@Henchgirls]

@@mistahspoke9281 And people somehow giving birth through thighs.

[@vylbird8014]

Zeus did love to meddle in the affairs of mortals. Literally at times.

[@silliussoddus1449]

*GASP* and then the cyclopes created his thunderbolts for him because of the Titans keeping them locked somewhere (idk where) because either they forgot or thought they were too ugly (not joking) like their parents and also the Titans and the Cyclopes are technically siblings because Gaea (mother) and Ouranous (the fuck do you think) had babies but like technically Ouranos was Gaea’s son that she had with herself cos the only other living beings were Tartarus (a pit) and Chaos (the thing that happened when Earth wasn’t around but is still around just sleeping) so that’s incest but so are the Kronos (the leader of the Titans) and Rhea (the mother) who are brother and sister and THEN after they have children (the gods) the children also have children with themselves who sometimes do the same thing but not really so I guess all I’m saying is that you’re not summarising it not even a little ok ill go now.

[@Beretboytoy]

The thing that gutted me the most about Hades never realising that Hercules wasn't dead all those years is the fact that he is literally the God of the underworld - The place where dead people go. If ANYONE should know when someone's dead, it should be him! Like did he just never look around and think "hey, has anyone seen Herc?"

[@bravetigerproud6895]

I'm pretty sure there are a few others more qualified to know who has and has not died than Hades. He ruled the whole realm not just the dead people. And there were other gods in the Underworld: Hecate, Charon, Thanatos, Zagreus (son of Hades), Macaria (daughter of Hades), and the Keres (1 of 5 terrors of war and goddesses of violent death), just to name a few. Given the way Hades wanted Hercules to die in the movie, i.e. violently, I'd say the Keres and Charon would be more likely to know if he was actually dead. Or maybe Thanatos, the god that personified death himself would have known. In short, you can't put all the blame on Hades. He's a busy guy and aparently everyone forgets the gods that aren't Olympians or Hades (no, he's not an Olympian).

[@wopachop4582]

@@bravetigerproud6895 ha, awesome, didn't know any of that stuff, the more you know right?

[@bravetigerproud6895]

@@wopachop4582 Most people forget about the minor deities. A similar argument turned my mythology class a few semesters ago into a full on debate between me (a Pagan who has been taught about these deities and how to show them the respect they deserve and was taking that class for an easy A) and the other 20-somthing students before the professor arrived. Awesome thing about that was that the professor let the debate go on for the first half hour of class before telling the class that I was right and starting her lecture on archetypes. (Edited for spelling)

[@highonquack6622]

Babies don't have souls

[@bravetigerproud6895]

@High Definition It's like symbolism in literature and mythology. I didn't really understand it as much as I should have.

[@fukyomammason]

The words ‘NOT BEING FAITHFUL’ over Zeus and Hera having a positive relationship is the best thing ever.

[@zaidlacksalastname4905]

Ikr

[@jvgreendarmok]

It was unfaithful because it made them faithful!

[@DeltaJim]

"Is [the doggy tag] in case Zeus forgets his name?" Given the number of illegitimate kids Zeus fathered, probably.

[@Kongstudios2]

You could in fact ascribe nearly every Greek myth to the moniker: "and Zues beheld a *insert literally every known and unknown organism in the universe* and was rendered instantly smitten!"

[@timothymclean]

​@@Kongstudios2 It was a plot twist when Zeus decided _not_ to bang someone! (Thetis, a nereid who both Zeus and Poseidon fell in lust with, but who was prophesied to bear a son stronger than his father, so they passed her off to some wimpy Thessalian king.)

[@samanthacabarles1065]

H O W M A N Y K l D S A G A l N ?

[@AVspectre]

That was my thought exactly. :)

[@c.d.dailey8013]

LOL Good point. Hercules is more memorable. That is the Roman version though. The Greek version is Heracles. So this love child is named after the wife. The wife being named Hera. That is memorable. Hera tormented Heracles a whole lot in the origional myth. In the Disney version, Hades gets the antagonist role instead.

[@maxwellg.2755]

Given Zeus' infidelity, the whole "Hercules has a dog tag in case Zeus forgets his name" was hilarious! lol

[@tobybartels8426]

But Zeus isn't unfaithful in this version; Hera is Hercules's mother, and she loves him.

[@maxwellg.2755]

@@tobybartels8426 I know, but it's still funny given the mythological reference lol

[@tobybartels8426]

@@maxwellg.2755 : True.

[@brianbrush5107]

@@tobybartels8426 We know he's not Unfaithful in THIS case. But wether or not all his other kids are legitimate or not is unclear.

[@tobybartels8426]

@@brianbrush5107 : I suppose, but this is Disney … what do you think?

[@shockingheaven]

I just enjoy the movie because it has a unique visual style, great music, Meg, and that himbo as a protagonist.

[@scremmy_draws]

what about hades?

[@shockingheaven]

eyubeon I didn’t even mention him because we know that’s the best part

[@engrammi]

I always felt like Hades is the center piece of the movie as he is awesome. Especially in the Finnish version the voice actor is sooo good.

[@jaxofspades9571]

@@engrammi Finnish Hades is my favourite Hades dub over ngl--

[@ajuwaaa]

yeah, I mean hades had an objective and faults, herc was just strong and that's that but I really love the music and style, it's definitely the best thing in this movie

[@IranahyeNotVTEC]

"Don't go to film school. Watch internet videos." Yes, Professor Ellis.

[@KmiiVC]

that's what i try to do too ngl

[@TheWinstonSlip]

“Be an independent thinker.”

[@juliasings6131]

Soooo real

[@mikkile0n]

As far as Hades not knowing Herc was alive for 18 years, I could buy the argument that Hades is a god and immortal, therefore, 18 years might actually not be a terribly long amount of time for him.

[@kylecampbell565]

That’s a good point I never considered

[@patrickmoriarty1564]

that makes more sense at least but the movie frames it like killing Herc is his main thing. You'd think he'd be staring at the portal to the underworld waiting for a baby.

[@pineapplefrostyfruits9225]

Pain and Panic murdered a ginger toddler off screen. Makes sense, huh?

[@savvasashikalis3698]

@Siper the underworld is for human souls tho

[@gravygoon6063]

He didn’t hear about Sisyphus for a fat minute if I’m not mistaken

[@hothotheat3000]

One thing I always found unique about this was that Meg appears to be older than Hercules. How many Disney movies have a romance with a female character who is older than the guy?

[@WarriorAuranae]

hothotheat3000 I never thought about her being older - sure she definitely had at least one relationship before Herc. But now that you mention it, he's barely 18, so I could see her being one or more years older. Though I can't tell if she’s mature because she’s older, or she just acts/is that mature regardless of age.

[@hothotheat3000]

The way that she is drawn and her voice all read as her being older. Not like mid-30s older, but they are not the same age, no way.

[@Whatsuppbuddies]

Meg is always the exception, what with her being exceptional and everything.

[@hanaortiz7596]

i've always thought meg could be pretty old, because hades would've kept her 'immortal' as long as he had her soul, and they seemed to have been working together for a while.

[@Mai2727]

Kida from Atlantis is thousands of years old. So I guess she wins? 😂

[@paul.maria.k]

2:46 "Indoor plumbing - it's gonna be big" hahaha, oh my God, in the German dub she says "Elvis lives - don't tell anybody"

[@bradypostma5167]

Hahaha, that's hilarious!

[@MrMickeyminny]

I could never figure out why i don't like the movie then i realized that Hercules was voiced by Til Schweiger??! Who's idea was that?? anyway once i watched the english version i really liked it hahhahaha

[@electrafabcap5109]

In the Greek dub she says "Pizzas will be delivered at homes with a phone call" so like every country added its own joke I suppose

[@bradypostma5167]

I knew they did a bunch of nation-specific jokes in the Avengers films and in Zootopia, but I didn't know they did such things as early as Hercules.

[@milenaporto7154]

@@electrafabcap5109 Unfortunately, in Brazil they kept the same meaning that is in the original language hahahahah

[@polymphus]

"How did the Greek gods hide a kid from the other side for 18 years?" *stares in Zagreus*

[@nope_118]

You. I like you

[@TSDTalks22]

to be fair, nyx is a badass who actviely was hiding him

[@zagreus5716]

👁👄👁

[@juliawood2212]

TIL that not everyone grew up loving Hercules?!?! I was genuinely shocked when you said it wasn't a box office success

[@RocaSeba]

Since i was a kid it's always been my favorite Disney animated movie :/

[@hj6507]

Big same

[@Rrextrex]

This

[@SilverArro]

It’s a great movie and I can’t bring myself to trust anyone who feels otherwise.

[@impish_snake3526]

See, I discovered it after being educated about Greek myths; kinda ruined the “family friendly” illusion for me.

[@d7787]

"Zeus got around" - literally ever Greek problem ever

[@wittyblonde6728]

*Manic Pixie Fangirl * lol

[@mrnobody9193]

@@theblackbaron4119 what is the Leda suggesting go court since she fucked a bird I'm the father lmfao, OK then.

[@pearornopear]

Main problem of Perseus Jackson's life

[@demmybane]

Peter Parker - Found a fellow PJO fan :)

[@kaldurskipper6821]

@@denisenova7494 Yes. They are both evil and Hera sucks at her job. Goddess of marriage? Better try something new

[@foxcom3183]

This is great but I will never forgive you for saying Treasure Planet was unmemorable, random lady I met 37 minutes ago

[@milirodriguez8493]

😂

[@WhizKidNate]

Kudos to you for waiting the whole video to respond lol

[@Ad-im1ne]

Seriously. I didn't even love Treasure Planet as a kid and I remember a shitton of it.

[@MostlyPennyCat]

It was gorgeous though. Like, the gorgeousest. Ever. They spent all the money.

[@LifeLikeSage]

Ya, Treasure planet was one of the greats pretty drunk lady.

[@insertwittyname5649]

I just rewatched Hercules and I think I finally realized why I loved it as a kid. Its not a history lesson, not a serious moral. Its just trying to have fun, which is what I'm looking for at the end of the day. But I've heard talk of a live-action remake and I'm pretty concerned they'll try to make it more "accurate" and "serious." At that point you're taking away the only thing Hercules has. I don't exactly watch that movie for the great plot lol

[@vporta3151]

I agree. I loved it and I wasn’t looking for a history lesson. People forget it’s a movie for entertainment.

[@okagron]

@@vporta3151 A movie can be entertaining while giving an history lesson, they aren't incompatible.

[@copingflower1909]

I think thats why in my eyes like with modern movies and shows from nowadays they get more flamed then when movies like Hercules came out, cause as a good example, when Netflix created their documentary film Cleopatra it got absolutely dunked, why?? Because the movie was being outright racist and hostile towards an entire fucking country, in that movies case thats why it and other medias portraying mythology and history nowadays get attacked and rightly so, but with Hercules, its not trying to be super super serious and is just trying to have fun with the ideas that it is basing itself on, and sure maybe some would say about how the movie had a whole song about the gospel and how everything that was told was the truth, but to that I say, they don't remind you of it like every 2 seconds how THIS is how the story went and how THIS was actually what happened without providing historical proof and shit

[@orangeslash1667]

@@copingflower1909 This film come out at the same time as Men in Black, Face off, Batman and Robin. This explains why it underperformed.

[@SunjayVideos]

"Pulled by the plot contrivance of destiny" What could be more ancient Greek than that?

[@Serenitybabe15]

that's exactly what i thought!

[@gorillema3276]

Feta cheese?

[@EngelSpiel]

Yogurt and a terrible economy?

[@deraokoli7746]

The ancient Greek playwrights invented the concept of a deus ex machina

[@HajduDIGITAL]

Yeah. And they didn't predict everything.

[@star3catcherSEQUEL]

>being an insufferable 12 year old who is mad that the movie was unfaithful to Greek mythology I don't like how you're personally attacking me like this.

[@Nerdsammich]

I'm right there with you. Hera wanting to welcome Hercules into the family? Hades being the bad guy? Still cheesed about that.

[@animatorireenie8319]

Actually same

[@lilithcrow6675]

Me too

[@Karen-pk3uv]

Coming from the girl who started using Egyptian hieroglyphics to pass notes in class at about 12 (litterally just for fun not to gossip or cheat.)....I feel you and will gladly stand up and yell "hey....Not cool" with you. I figure every one of us that fell in love with and obsessed over an ancient culture at an "unusually" young age need to stick together lol 😂😂😂 💚😎😎

[@ThreeFlatDucks]

I think you’ll find I’m fourteen

[@KenzLovesMovies]

To be fair, Odysseus wasn’t Odysseying for glory, either. Dude was just trying to get home after the Trojan War.

[@theAngryscotman]

I love that because it makes it sound like he took a wrong turn at Albuquerque.

[@KenzLovesMovies]

@@theAngryscotman Look, man. Greece is a big place. They weren't very good at making maps. Just getting to Troy in the first place, at the start of the war, was a whole-ass ordeal. Not to mention Poseidon hated the guy. Odysseus had a rough one aight

[@theAngryscotman]

@@KenzLovesMovies Hey, no arguments here. Just sayin'

[@KenzLovesMovies]

@@theAngryscotman lol I know; just giving some more details. I've taken a lot of classes on greek and roman mythology so I'm always anxious to share when it's relevant! You'd be surprised how useful it in in other literary/film analysis courses, actually!

[@snowfloofcathug]

theAngryscotman Is that the place where you can eat your soup right out of the ashtrays if you wanna, it’s okay they’re clean?

[@catherinecao4810]

I always thought that Hercules equated “the fame and fortune” with “acceptance.” That’s all he ever wanted.

[@lucyheartfilliadragneel]

Same here. I always saw it as being accepted in a shallow way by millions vs being accepted in a deep way by one person

[@waywardmind]

But he never equated those. He literally never mentions either of them. He's only ever annoyed by fame, and that for a split second of a montage and the painting scene, and he doesn't even acknowledge money to any degree. That's the disconnect. The writers knew that _the audience_ equated worthiness with fame and wealth, and they hoped we'd just transfer our own valuations over to the character. But they don't.

[@anni1348]

But for that plot to work out he needed to want or either perceive fame and fortune as "acceptance", but he never does seek out fame, he quit literally says he hates it right after the montage scene.

[@lars7282]

But even THIS point was mega weak in the movie. First they make a huge deal about his clumsiness and then the acceptance part never becomes a thing again

[@courtneydurham8429]

I remember not liking Meg when I first saw the movie because I was like, "That's not how a Disney princess is supposed to act!" But now that I'm all growed up, she's hands down my favorite and her exclusion from the Disney Princess mafia is a terrible snub.

[@mythios23]

Courtney Durham “Disney Princess Mafia” 😂

[@ingriddubbel8468]

grown up not growed up

[@tripping_on_words]

@@ingriddubbel8468 Ever heard of non-native English speakers? Guess not

[@iwatchkittenvids45]

Well she wasn't a princess

[@mh-wo8ze]

@Iwatchkittenvids45 Nor are Mulan, Moana, Ariel or Pocahontas. Also so many are only princesses by marriage: Snowhite: Tiana, Cinderella, and Belle. The only ACTUAL princesses are Jasmine, Aurora and Rapunzel.

[@thatcutenerdgirl6090]

I mean, Odysseus didn’t ‘go’ odysseying. He was just trying to get home to his wife and son.

[@EJ-bn3tc]

And clearly having fun along the way lol

[@overlydramaticpanda]

Well yes, but he was only in that position thanks to choosing to go off to war against the Trojans. So the original point that Greek heroes were more about personal fame and selfish goals still stands.

[@EJ-bn3tc]

Overly Dramatic Panda I mean he had multiple affairs but expected his wife to be faithful lol I know it was a different time but still

[@idrk3707]

@@overlydramaticpanda no he was forced to fight in the war? Get ur facts straight. He only chooses to hoe around for like 10 years near the end

[@overlydramaticpanda]

@@idrk3707 Technically, it's not as straightforward as saying he was forced to fight. As the King of Ithaca, if he hadn't had an heir then he could have refused, despite his oath of allegience to Menelaus. Unfortunately, his son was already born by that time, and Odysseus' only other plan for getting out of it by feigning lunacy was ruined when he refused to cause harm to his son. So while yes, he ultimately decided to honour his oath (or at least he couldn't use lunacy as an excuse not to go), he's also the one solely responsible for ensuring (multiple times) that the Greek army continued their siege instead of returning home - there are at least two occasions when Agamemnon announces his intentions to give up and go home and both times Odysseus is the one who persuades him not to. The second time he even explicitly invokes the whole "personal fame and glory" thing. Also, he didn't "choose to hoe around" (whatever that means) for 10 years afterwards; he would have returned home fairly quickly if he hadn't repeatedly pissed off Poseidon and got himself cursed to spend 10 years trying to get home and lose all his crew along the way.

[@ilikecats3687]

Honey, you mean *HUNKULES*

[@williewillie5622]

OUR STORY BEGINS

[@0927kira]

hercules made me gay

[@liu_yifei_is_baepotato6985]

LONG BEFORE HERCULES...

[@mez8801]

ilikecats Hercules can get it tbh

[@Tymanus666]

@@0927kira Same

[@bear4045]

I loved megra she wasn't your typical "princess trope" she was very scorned and imperfect she really stands out because she had a relationship that broke her heart prior to Hercules, she was not as virtuous as other disney princesses and did everything for self preservation... even her character design was far different. Megra doesn't value integrity and shows the different side of the coin. A very human transcendic side.

[@ThePythonfan]

She was the only positive thing in the movie and idk how they pulled it of but she remidns me a lot of the earlier Greek 60s -70s movies we had with very feisty heroines (albeit in nowadays lense pretty sexist), which is in a way a lot how Greek women tend to be or seemed to be to foreign visitors at the time. The more liberated ones at least. Like Stella or Never on Sunday, to me she's the only thing and only one who is even remotely "fatihfull"

[@Thrawn369]

Tiny Brain: Hercules Glowing Brain: Heracles Galaxy Brain: Hunkules

[@ashrinker5792]

Thrawn369 it’s wild how like everyone gets what you mean.

[@ZoanBlade90]

Universe Mind: Marvel's Hercules.

[@DGilVids]

ZoanBlade90 Cue the Caddicarus bit! *discordant trombones*

[@DealsFS]

Multiverse brain: a Justin Y. comment

[@LupineShadowOmega]

ZoanBlade90, or that version that dates alternate universe James Howlett with the golden claws.

[@albidalbi2000]

that fucking Hercules and Hades beauty and the beast edit was fucking legendary.

[@nerdyninjatemptress]

I’ve been just as jaded as Meg since I turned 20. Gotta love having a sarcastic and witty Disney heroine though, those are far too rare.

[@blueshard4632]

Do you need/want to talk about it?

[@animatorireenie8319]

Agreed 👍

[@berengustav7714]

Why I like MCU M.J.

[@sinceritynature202]

I'd actually like to make an argument about the "Want vs Need" section. While it does handle it clumsily, I feel that his 'want' is addressed more than you let on. His strength and abnormalities from his mortal peers, as well as finding out he was adopted, are what left him feeling like he didn't belong, so his want was to find where he was 'supposed' to belong. He finds out that he was born a god, meaning he must only 'belong' on olympus, and so he sets out to regain his godhood and join his father Zeus. The movie is spent with him trying to chase this idea of a 'hero' in various ways, training, doing rescues, defeating monsters, becoming adored and admired by the masses, attaining wealth and status, ect. Solely to try to get to the place and fit the standards of the places he feels he Must belong. Then in the finale, through his sacrifice for Meg, he meets the 'true hero' standard and regains his godhood, allowing him to finally 'belong' in olympus. But he rejects olympus and his godhood after realizing he never Needed to go to olympus, what was important about being a 'true hero' was not meeting the standards to attain godhood, but to save a woman he loved, because it was with her, a person he cared for and could be honest and vulnerable with, that he truly Belonged. So I would say his 'want', to belong, did feed into his 'need'.His want to 'belong', due to his strength and outsider-ness, led him to believe he Must become a god and return to olympus, and in his pursuit of that goal he realized his 'need', to become a 'true hero' not to achieve 'belonging' in olympus, but to save the person he Truly belonged with, not because of his strength or his heroism but because of who he was. Again, the movie didn't execute this...... super well, and it leads to some more weirdness with the celebrity endorsement angle, but it IS there!!

[@KazeTalks]

As a kid in the 90s, this message resonated with me really well. I was always impressed by how Hercules decided to become mortal and be with Meg. That’s where he belonged. That’s the distance he was always searching for. The film is a bit too fast paced, we needed more time to feel during Meg’s death and I definitely feel that she should have died before Hercules fights off the titans. This would have made the fight way more a vengeful and serious rather than comedic which could have been a brilliant lead up to him realising that revenge wasn’t the answer and then chooses to sacrifice himself for Meg. This is what was really missing from this film to become a masterpiece in my eyes. Nevertheless, I always felt that the arcs were really well done regardless and for kids (or at least for me), the message resonated really well. Plus, Meg’s character is super interesting, the most complex female character up to that point and that is so refreshing too. Hercules is a great Disney Renaissance film and one of the most fun on a rewatch, just not to the same level of quality as the early DR films or Mulan.

[@thecat_iswatching]

Fun fact: Hera disguised Hercules' wife and kid as monsters. So he killed them not realizing. Hera was a great step-mom...

[@WillemDefoe]

He killed them in a fit of rage

[@galecaie928]

Only half true. See, what happened is Hera disguised Hercules's wife and kids as the family of one of his enemies, and so he murdered them, only to discover that it was his wife and kids.

[@thecat_iswatching]

@Saiyasha27 Greek mythology is so messy. 😐 I don't blame Disney for veering off the track of what's cannon.

[@pillbobaggins2766]

Sounds worse than Lucifer’s mum

[@naha2153]

Klea Tselentis Fun fact: it was actually Heracles that did that. Hercules was his Roman form. Even though Hercules and Heracles are mostly the same, Heracles was Greek and Hercules was Roman

[@WIckedOmenOfThunder]

so i found this video after a disney spiral. The way she walked on screen, booze everywhere, eating junkfood really got the mood of 2020. ESPECIALLY as she has a corona beer in the background. Girl you were 4 years ahead of your time.

[@Thor.Jorgensen]

Or... You know.. It could be that it's a beer... And people drink beer some times.

[@LowestofheDead]

*The Fates intensify*

[@thevampirefrog06]

6:31 Chances are no one cares, but for full joke appreciation: "I am retired" translates to "Είμαι συνταξιούχος" in modern Greek. Which is to say, two words.

[@thevampirefrog06]

(There's a chance I got the declension wrong, and if so apologies.)

[@lotus-prince]

Wow, that's surprisingly clever. I wonder if the creators were aware of that, or if it's just a happy coincidence.. Thanks for the info!

[@oida10000]

thevampirefrog06 but the question is: does this hold true for accient greek?

[@victoriah4648]

I'm Greek and I should let you know that you got that perfectly right :)

[@rebeccahicks2392]

​@@oida10000I don't know the word you would use for "retired" in Ancient Greek, but the sentence would almost certainly still be two words.

[@slc679]

3:30 “One of the most important issues of our day” *Bottle of Corona stands menacingly in the background*

[@thejollywriter]

"An entire canon of Bella Swans." i had to pause and walk that one off. A+ commentary.

[@vikablaire3528]

One of the things I liked about this particular film was that Hercules's strength, normally an admired trait, is what made others initially alienate and look down on him as a freak.

[@taewae]

TREASURE PLANET IS A MASTERPIECE AND IT DESERVES BETTER. anyway love this vid, the bit about "it's more important for a character to be motivated than to be sympathetic or relatable" is really great advice

[@laughingjack85]

THANK YOU. TREASURE PLANET IS AMAZING. Also I concur on that second statement. Great advice.

[@noodlesushi111]

as someone who loves Treasure Planet, I can understand why it wasn't that memorable. It wasn't marketed well and the plot was a little weak but it made you love the characters and their relationship with each other.

[@cuttlefishonfire7502]

unless the character's arc is about finding their motivation, which is pretty common.

[@kgldude]

“Look at how long this video is”. Oh man, those halcyon days when 37 minutes was long for a youtube analysis video

[@noctap0d]

Right? I actually checked and when I saw 37 minutos I was slightly disappointed ngl

[@amandaschultz1338]

"Someone call IXII!" one of the best line ever written. Edit: To all you *haters* commenting that they are Roman numerals and not Greek, might I remind you that Hercules is the *Roman* version of the Greek hero Heracles?! Who was born to Zeus and a mortal woman Alcemene, NOT Hera, Zeus' wife, who is also his sister! This movie is a *Disney cartoon* mishmash of both Greek and Roman Mythological beings/ Deities, who may or may not have (let's face it probably not) actually lived. SO how about you allow me to have this tiny slice of happiness by remembering a funny line from one of my favourite Disney movies in peace! Be Well Citizens!

[@TheCashhawk]

Also one of my fave lines in film

[@peteosher8799]

Eccept that they are greek and its roman numerals

[@ronnie-sillyme0560]

I would say that line at any chance I could, even till this day. I am amazed at how many people never got that reference.

[@FunnCubes]

someone call incorrectly written 11 !!

[@rozempire2843]

But IXII = IX XI

[@endanarchy]

Three years later, 2020, we watch her chug down Corona and the scene has a different symbolic significance.

[@zombyninja2576]

i want to like your comment, but it has 69 likes

[@headphonic8]

i get it!!! it's corona, like the virus!!!! crazy!!! wow!!!11

[@ziggystardog]

Followed by “I don’t think it’s necessarily a black or white thing...”

[@endanarchy]

@@ziggystardog oh snap. Yeah. I always knew she's on point but now she's just showing off.

[@dr.braxygilkeycruises1460]

@@zombyninja2576 👀 I see what you did there!!!! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

[@saff4997]

"I'm saving you student loans. Don't go to film school." As I sit here, watching this video essay to understand what it is so I can know what I'm doing for my assignment. As a film theory student. At university.

[@cyanmanta]

Blaine By your word choice, I'm assuming you're not American, so the problem won't be nearly as bad for you. In the US, college is four years rather than three and it costs way, waaaaaaay more without actually being significantly better quality education. Privatization of healthcare and education really sucks.

[@princesspattycakeswm]

Lucky.. it's my dream to go to film school. Enjoy it! I am betting you'll do great things and hope to see your name in some credits some time in the future!

[@princesspattycakeswm]

cyanmanta really? Because of his word choice? Yikes....

[@taylorclogston9224]

Lilly Peterson An American would probably say "college." A non-American would probably say "university."

[@Sancredo]

I love how the "Not being faithful" text is superimposed over Zeus with Hera. That joke IS faithful to the source material!

[@aii5748]

*Treasure planet is one of my favorite movies* of all time. I don't see why so many people disliked it. But whatever. To some of us, *their passion project was worth it.* Even though we're few, hopefully it was worth it to them too.

[@DAsObiQuiet]

It's not that it was disliked, it was set up to fail. Seriously, it had a terrible ad campaign and then it was released against Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone and one of Disney's own Christmas films. If that isn't contrived...

[@openshores4288]

i love it too..watch Treasure Planet - Disney's Biggest by BREADSWORD and you will know why

[@saradavis49]

I always loved Treasure Planet as well. But I guess I have a track record of loving the Disney movies that did poorly. Atlantis is still one of my favorites, and I hate that it's so neglected. Make Kida an official Disney Princess, darn it!

[@xxmessymindxx1303]

Exactly. The same goes for Atlantis and The Black Cauldon!

[@raexrockstar]

AverageChocolate_x omg yes! The black cauldron was amazing but Disney’s biggest flop apparently. It was the darkest Disney film and I loved every second of it.

[@Dolly-bc1dy]

"Her bitchy gay boyfriend Hades..." THIS IS MY FAVORITE LINE. It's so true tho XD

[@SlavoidUkr]

@Gaius Wyrden greek mythology is rather wacky, it seems everyone is bi there

[@SlavoidUkr]

@Gaius Wyrden this movie movie doesn't even show his wife, no?

[@Dolly-bc1dy]

@Gaius Wyrden Oh my god she wasn’t being literal. You’re homophobia is showing btw 😂

[@Dolly-bc1dy]

@Gaius Wyrden I'll take your word for it. You just seemed pretty defensive over a fictional character’s potential sexuality. I understand the confusion tho

[@sammygecko_]

@Gaius Wyrden also! He has Persephone because he is lonely. While that does not make him gay, it does not mean he is straight either. I’m thinking everyone was pretty Omnisexual, but leaned for more Hetero relationships when looking for offspring (duh) or long-term companionship (did Per and Hades ever have kids???? I have no clue) Basically, Hades is a sad loner because he lives in the underworld with no real contact with anyone other than “co-workers”, and his brother feels bad (but in the Zeus way of feeling bad) and offhandedly offers up his available daughter that he never really connected with. People didn’t really get married for love, especially with the olympians

[@joerafique9391]

I won’t say I’m in love makes up for anything else wrong with the film idc

[@nessyness5447]

Megara in herself and the muses, make up for everthing XD she is one of my favorite disney female characters, she was not a warrior or physically strong, yet she saves the heroe's life. Besides she is sassy, has life experience, is not naive and sweet, in general has all that " the evil girlfriend" has in rom coms ( and in telenovelas that my grandma watches...and in fanfics and in shojo animes) but she is actually good.

[@jazzclub9]

If anything, MEG was the real main character here 😎 I mean, she went through some character development, learning to love and sacrifice again after being burned in the past.

[@eddie-roo]

Also, Hades is like the death receptionist, he would probably know if someone was death or not.

[@alexbradshaw5466]

If someone was death

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

Isn’t that the entity that stirred the riverboat on Styx, they would know each soul? Not Hades, he’s more of a guard for nothing to get out?

[@mariak9086]

Don't get me wrong but I was always confused why Hercules was a red-head. I'm Greek and the only red-heads I've seen are tourists. But who knows maybe in this film Hera cheated Zeus with Thor.

[@abiireland2808]

I always thought it could be because gingers are made fun of for their hair and so they used this to emphasise the fact that Hercules was seen as an outcast. Also links the possibility he is related to Ariel who is ginger also

[@CanelaAguila]

A lot of homeric heroes like Menelaos and Odysseus were described as red/blonde headed, but I wouldn't be surprised if Disney was just trying to appeal to the golden jock American ideal

[@15acesplz15]

Yeah, might be because there's a Greek color word "xanthos" that means either red or blond, depending on the context/interpretation

[@lastupenda3049]

I always thought it was dark blonde.

[@TherSomethinBoutMary]

Canonically in Disney, Herc and the little mermaid (daughter of Poseidon) are cousins and both have red hair. Must run in the family

[@TrueMohax]

The two word scene is clever comedy. "I am retired" is "Eímai syntaxioúchos" in Greek.

[@RomanZolanski123]

Holy shit what a language lol

[@madmaninabox3638]

That is clever. And cleverly pointed out as well.

[@mentichi7674]

Actually really clever thanks for the info

[@sweetbananas6077]

I dont get it, aomeone please explain

[@brianpendell6085]

@@sweetbananas6077 It's three words in English but two in Greek. So it sounds like the goat-guy can't count but, in fact, he can and does.

[@Hannahgs]

Maybe it’s because I watched it like every day as a kid, but I LOVE Hercules! I also got into Greek mythology as a kid too which made it my first “love the stupid movie despite its flaws”

[@ameliagrace30]

SAME!! Even to this day, I still ADORE Greek Mythology, and even though this film is pretty dumb and has flaws, I love this movie too. I know a lot of people who love Greek mythology got into it because of Percy Jackson - but this was my introduction.

[@mikailtheonly]

sammmeee

[@trickyjrmjrm5252]

Firmly believe this is second best Disney movie after Aladdin, had no idea it bombed

[@oliviadoyle3623]

My thoughts exactly! Even got a glow in the dark lightning blot LoL

[@wpcky7814]

Same. Catchy songs, good comedy with a theme, good character arcs, alright villain that pans out to a superboss villain ending which is sweet. One of my favorite Disney movies.

[@Neotenico]

I had no idea Thief and the Cobbler was ripped off by Aladdin. I simply knew it was in production purgatory for EONS. But growing up, it was one of my favorite movies to watch and it made me so happy to know that a certified animated movie critic legend knows about it.

[@Zizumia]

I didn't realize either until I found out that some animators who worked on the Cobbler had a falling out with Dick Williams and went to work for Disney. The falling out wasn't unprecedented as Dick was a notoriously strict boss who accepted nothing less than utmost dedication and perfection. But coincidentally, just a couple of years after these animators left for Disney, a perfect time for an animation to be made, Aladdin dropped. Hmmmmm

[@KassWinnie]

I hear you. I do. And even agree. But, to this day, that is one of my favorite Renaissance movies. I celebrate its anniversaries by watching it all over again, Herc is ma babe

[@Confucius_76]

Renaissance? 😁

[@KassWinnie]

@@Confucius_76 Disney's renaissance era, yes

[@ashapash]

Hercules introduced me to the himbo!

[@tijanamilenkovic3425]

@@ashapash Hercules is Goku of Disney because he is strong, brave and handsome yet also funny and comedic

[@thenerdbeast7375]

You should do a video on Treasure Planet, it is incredibly underrated, has a pretty good history to it and is infamous for being deliberately sabotaged by Disney.

[@CouchSpud91]

And it's garnered one hell of a cult following. If Disney backed Treasure Planet like it did all of its other animated projects, it would have killed at the box office instead of being such a huge commercial flop.

[@CraftyMaelyss]

I agree, it really is worth a video, as the characters are written extremely well and have excellent chemistry and charm :)

[@robinboy135]

Just go and look for it, there is a video that goes over all this stuff.

[@kellythomas6347]

Breadsword

[@mangaanimefan89]

You know, instead of doing reboots of Disney classics or the renaissance age; something I still can't understand because they were wonderful and they don't need to be done again. Why hasn't Disney done reboots of movies that didn't do well? Go back, see what went wrong, whether it was marketing or tone or storyline and do better this time! Make it the hit it should have been. And the first movies I think of that deserve a second chance are Treasure Planet, Atlantis: The Lost Empire, and The Black Cauldron. I'm sure there might be others but those are the ones I'd actually want to see. Just F.Y.I when I say reboot, I don't mean it has to be live-action or all CGI. Honestly, I miss Disney's animation. I'd like to see some of that again.

[@igormehello]

OMG AN ALMOST 40 MIN VIDEO EXPLAINING WHY A 1997 ANIMATED MOVIE UNDERPERFORMED this is the kind of thing i live for, god bless this channel

[@mugwump9131]

Hercules was my fav disney movie as a kid, at the time little redhead me thought he wanted to be Hercules. Looking back as a card carrying homosexual, that little twunk was one of my first crushes.

[@guggelguggel7491]

Card carrying essensially means obvious

[@orangeslash1667]

@@guggelguggel7491 This film come out at the same time as Men in Black, Face off, Batman and Robin. This explains why it underperformed.

[@justinsharber5530]

"It's not a black or white thing - it's more of a gray-dient." Best pun I ever heard.

[@justaninnocentpomegranate3702]

“Zeus got around” literally the base of every problem in Greek Mythology...

[@nickt.8738]

that and Hera or Athena got salty

[@LegendLeaguer]

Warranted

[@IsaacMayerCreativeWorks]

Nick T. Often Hera got salty BECAUSE Zeus got around

[@kingofthebis1068]

Connor Stickels Is it possible for consent to exist between a god and a mortal?

[@sambeck2510]

@@kingofthebis1068 rather than is it necessary, is it even possible? How would you know your feelings are your own feelings and not being implanted by the god?

[@M1SF0RTUNE]

You kept reminding me why I love Emperor's New Groove. Thanks for making my day with that.

[@veronicagross7458]

Hércules and empero's new groove... .easily my two favs.

[@sethlong9118]

Of course, so much love for Hercules and The Emperor's New Groove, meanwhile The Road to El Dorado is criminally underrated. And Treasure Planet, so good, so weird.

[@JoRiver11]

Isn't this the one where he's singing his own stealth theme music? (I haven't seen it in years) Damn that cracked me up.

[@cathl4953]

11:32 Hades and Persephone tale always sounded to me like someone started to make a tale explaining the seasons changing but forgot they weren't writing a love story and were lazy to rewrite it

[@kohashiguchi1454]

This is a reminiscence, not a regret; but I worked on this one, and I felt bad at the time, that "The Rugrats Movie" outperformed "Hercules" at the box office. I later got to work on "Rugrats In Paris," and "Rugrats Go Wild," so the only regrets (if any) that I had about working on *those* is that neither counted towards my Motion Picture Screen Cartoonists pension. Twenty-plus years ago I would have been curt and dismissive of Lindsay. Not now! Keep up the good and fun work :)

[@fishbuddy547]

Oh that's really cool! Where did you work at and how did you get into the animation business, may I ask?

[@splashnskillz37]

Well it's my favorite Disney movie so thx for your work

[@LNSS_v]

@@fishbuddy547 He has an IMDb entry www.imdb.com/name/nm1582312/

[@natatatt]

That's amazing. The animation in Hercules is beautiful!

[@yttis3257]

When I was in Elementary School I had two cats that I named Zeus and Kimmy because of Hercules and Rugrats in Paris. Funny little coincidence.

[@RanRayu]

when heracles/hercules was doing his 12th labour he found hades and asked permission to bring Cerberus to the surface, which hades agreed to if heracles could subdue the beast without using weapons. ok so this dude on a quest asked the god of the underworld permission to show his dog to the king and hades was like ''sure just dont hurt him and bring him back before dinner'', in almost any other story this wouldve resulted in a bloody battle that ends in the hero delivering the dog's heads to the king, i like the greek version better. also latinized form of the greek kerberos possibly meant "spotted" so hades the god of the underworld has a dog named spot... no matter how scary and monstrous a dog looks, if its name is spot im gonna pet it and give it belly rubs.

[@idontknowwhattochangethist9528]

Cerberus=good boy

[@plutarchvonpluto6439]

*Cerberus=three good bois

[@tijanamilenkovic3425]

@@idontknowwhattochangethist9528 Hercules is Goku of Disney and Aladdin is Naruto of Disney

[@onyxiris]

@@tijanamilenkovic3425 What a ridiculous comment

[@elimkwok938]

Treasure planet is one of the most underrated movies by disney

[@DAsObiQuiet]

Amen to that!

[@colbaltmind5696]

And Atlantis!

[@lenajohnson6179]

IMO it is THE most underrated Disney movie.

[@Osato_June]

The hunch back of Notre Dame is also underrated

[@Arkenway]

Treasure Planet is Disney's most overrated underrated movie.

[@rachelhawkins596]

Can we all agree that the great mouse detective and treasure planet absolutely SLAPPED, underrated masterpieces honestly

[@MCLegoboy]

I was big into Hercules as a kid. I watched this whole video, everything you said made sense, and still, eh, don't care, I love the movie the same as I ever did. Is it nostalgia? I don;t know, maybe, but also at the same time, I just have fun with it. The movie is probably why I've always had an interest in Greek art and architecture and mythology, and even though it's hardly accurate, I still don't care, I find the movie great. Gospel music in ancient Greece?! It shouldn't work, and yet it does. This movie is magic to me.

[@scremmy_draws]

same! i agree with everything she said in the video, but i love the movie anyways! it’s just so fun that i love it regardless of its many flaws!

[@TheCaptainBenis]

I mean she even ends the video by pretty much saying "I like everything about this movie execpt the movie"

[@julian7247]

I honestly think she COMPLETELY missed the whole point of the movie, to me its about selfworth. But maybe people missing that is why it actually didnt do so well.

[@Possi_ball]

Spoiler alert: It is nostalgia. It's a mess.

[@MCLegoboy]

@@Possi_ball Well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

[@melissateodola1887]

"An entire canon of Bella Swans" made me laugh and I had to go back a few times until I stopped laughing.

[@Persnikity-yv3nh]

I'll admit Hunchback is flawed af - but my God if it didn't have the highest highs of Disney intensity. Love it.

[@Vohalika]

I knooow right? Also I'd use Hunchback as a counterpoint to the whole Meg being the first female lead who has experience with men. Esmeralda so has that, too. And is arguably coded even sexier than Meg. Someone cut the goddamn gargoyles out and this movie could have been one of the best, but nooo...

[@Johnny0lovely69]

They can work if they remain frozen during the third act

[@Persnikity-yv3nh]

Yeah... oh well :P

[@Ilikecatsismychannelname]

Also one of the best soundtracks of the 90s. I love the Latin choirs!!! Also Clopin on the high notes. Also leitmotif. LOVE THE SOUNDTRACK!!!

[@mastermarkus5307]

Check out the musical version that came out... last year I think? It uses a lot of songs from the movie but has a fair amount of it's own original songs which are all _great_, and is obviously geared towards adults rather than kids. Of all possible Disney remakes I actually _want_ to see, it's making a movie that's basically just _that musical_ so that I can enjoy the story without feeling all gross when I realize how much time is devoted to Jason Alexander as a gargoyle trying _desperately_ to be funny in a film with _attempted genocide_.

[@kolspaz]

The sanest, most grounded voice upon the internet. Glad as always to see your iconic work. It puts my mind at ease.

[@iamonlinehero]

I can see how the cartoon as a whole is flawed in regards of story, motivations and tone, but musical numbers involving muses and James Woods' performance as Hades win me over.

[@maurescaveiga9202]

I will never recover from the phrase ‘an entire canon of Bella Swans’

[@TenEnvelopes]

I agree with Lindsay that Hercules' prime motivation is "belonging" -- finding where he belongs. However, the character arc is not so broken as she makes out. No, Hercules does not need to learn that fame and fortune are hollow accomplishments, a la Aladdin. That's not his arc. Here's his arc: Hercules doesn't fit in. Why? Because his village is full of assholes. They ostracize him because he's "different." Even his parents don't really know what to do with him. So Herc leaves home, and pretty much everyone he meets along his journey (Zeus, Phil, the Thebans) agrees that the way to solve his problem (not belonging) is to become somebody he's not. A "hero": beefy, brave, macho, etc. So Herc becomes - outwardly - the person everybody wants him to be. Problem is, he still doesn't feel that sense of belonging. He doesn't feel it in Thebes, and he won't feel it in Olympus. Enter Meg. Meg is the one person who values Herc for who he is on the inside - who he's ALWAYS been. Kind, selfless, genuine, etc. Disappointingly, Lindsay did not include the clip from the end of the video that brings Herc's arc full-circle, but essentially, he is standing on the threshhold to Olympus and has to choose between immortality with his father or a mortal life with Meg. He says, "I wish to stay on Earth with her: I finally know where I belong." Hercules' arc is realizing that "belonging" isn't about being somebody he's not: it's about finding someone who values him for who he truly is. Like Meg says, Hercules has no weakness. He's not a flawed character. His mistake is one of naivete, not of bad character. A tragic flaw is not necessary for a strong story. Hercules' story is about learning to have faith in himself, and not compromising his values for shallow, superficial people. The story would have been stronger IMO if the superficial heroism had actually been enough to get Herc to Olympus, where he then realized he still didn't "belong." (Compare Zuko's arc in Avatar: TLA -- he finally goes home, his honor fully restored, and only then does he realize that his "want" is different from his "need.) For some reason, the metaphysics of Hercules' universe are wiser than Zeus, and Hercules is not permitted into Olympus until after he has already learned the lesson. But wevs. The main point is that Hercules arc is not "broken," it's just subtle. It's not one we see often, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work.

[@Doomfullord]

I was actually going to comment basically the same thing in about the same length, but you beat me by 3 weeks, however, I can't really agree more. "Well its a motivation given to him." And it shows in that he doesn't really feel for the motivation either. They didn't do a particularly good job of getting that across is more the problem than the motivation itself being that bad. That was the entire point of that part of the plot. It was an intentional misleading element, a risk, that wasn't actually brought up by her especially as that's a core part of her review.

[@cesverc]

Thank you! While this video makes interesting points, I feel that they aren't necessarily valid. Hercules story many not be as striking as other Disney's stories, the whole "motivation" may feel weak to us, but it's ultimately a story about a young man discovering his values and who he is as a person, and IMO it does its job pretty well.

[@weirdofromhalo]

I also feel that the song "Shooting Star" by Boyzone makes more sense than "Go the Distance," especially as there seems to be a nice couple call and response verses for Megara and Hercules. Because really, they need each other, and they bring out the best in each other.

[@chandrawagner4061]

TiPerihelion I love your idea of a zuko-mosque story line. You actually bring up a really good point about the story and a counter to lindsay I appreciate.

[@Traumglanz]

You Sir have a pretty good point, a point which I felt was really needed to be said.

[@MadAnime963]

I'll always be so sad about treasure planet not getting the praise and love it deserved :(

[@jakemetzgar]

It has grown a following though

[@unicorntsukinc5495]

Lindsey should write that hercules/hades fanfic, since she is, you know, an award winner writer

[@Mikki9999]

Not me going straight to ao3 after reading that

[@orangeslash1667]

@@Mikki9999 This film come out at the same time as Men in Black, Face off, Batman and Robin. This explains why it underperformed.

[@ianhebert91]

"...lobs them into the sky and the plot explodes." *laughs in destroyed childhood*

[@junaoneil1202]

My grandma loved Hercules so much that she did not like it when we watched Pocahontas because it meant we weren't watching Hercules.

[@sf1822]

Your grandma is an Absolute legend

[@stevenatkins5206]

I love Treasure Planet, so the fact they had go through all of this to work on it was worth it. Hercules is what I like to call Disney Popcorn Mixed Up fun, Great, but sometimes doesn't know what it wants to be, but the acting and plot still works.

[@timothymclean]

I'm going to take a shot at fixing as much of the movie by changing one bone: Have Hercules think that being a hero is about beating villains more than saving people. Then, his conflict could be one where he has to choose between saving people and working towards regaining his godhood, and saving Megara would be meaningful-he gives up his life and chance at immortality to do something he thought was unrelated to heroism. But in doing so, he becomes a True Hero, gains immortality, learns a lesson, etc etc.

[@theywalkinguptoyouand4060]

Everyone has a lame story they think is better. Save it

[@DAsObiQuiet]

Ignore the haters. You have a great idea and a great point! Huh...*thinks about it* You're so right. Just a couple of changes would fix almost everything...

[@Nanashi20]

@@catherinestickels2591 exactly, but i think the whole getting rich and applauded crap shouldve been more explored, like, make him THINK it is where he belonged, forgetting the whole godhood thing, then realized that it wasnt the case, the people only saw the hero as some object or so, and after the self sacrifice and such, earning his godhood, he realizes that where he belongs was where the people(or person, and goat) are, thus making the whole godhood thing more of an "its not about the end point, its about the journey" kinda deal where he realized the answer to his want. (kinda how aladins father realized the treasure thing at the end of their adventure)

[@CalebJMartin]

If you told everyone in the world they should keep any creative ideas to themselves we would have no art, no stories, and no games. Thankfully, we enjoy a little something called freedom of expression, so we don't have to live like people in Nazi Germany or North Korea. I think that would've been a great change! It wouldn't solve every problem with the movie, but it would certainly make for a more compelling conflict in the end.

[@minnumseerrund]

I like this. My main issue (as a bonified nerd) is that the movie doesnt relate to the mythology at all - namely, the 12 trials. Sure, there's the montage of Hercules defeating the hydra, the nemean lion, etc - I dont remember if he's actually shown cleaning the king of Augean's stables, but that would fit right in with Disney - but it doesn't really matter, hence the montage. What if Hercules actually ends up a bitter, disillusioned hero/celebrity who then has to come to terms with the fact that his original goal (Step 1: Become a hero, step 2: ?, step 3: Godhood) wasnt what he actually wanted? Sure, Aladdin's ultimate goal was to marry the Princess, but he goes through a whole process culminating in him realising that he has to be himself to reach his goal. Hercules doesnt. He is flat out told by his parents what being a true hero means, after the fact. He never really learns. Sure, Disney goes through the trope of him declining godhood to stay with his love, but that doesnt solve the actual conflict. Hercules wants to fit in, to be where he belongs. Does he actually 'belong' in the canon ending or is it just a happy ending because he found true love? IMO, the story of a celebrity who is only appreciated for his talent/status, unable to form any genuine relationships is far more interesting than the dude who wants to be a god realising that nah, he just needed a good woman by his side.

[@angeloabbatiello4755]

Actually he's called Heracles' Monster

[@Confucius_76]

Heh

[@jamespryor5967]

Wisdom is when you realize Herakles *is* the monster

[@wanderinghistorian]

LOL underrated comment

[@prettybyaccident]

A better Percy Jackson movie than the actual Percy Jackson movie.

[@ftl9849]

oof

[@angelheart1701]

You're not wrong.

[@TheRonster9319]

That's not saying much lol

[@G-LukeJA]

@@catherinestickels2591 i watched the movie b4 reading the book. Was hyped. Then I read the books. And became furious

[@myyoutubeaccount2780]

practically any movie about Greek mythology is a better Percy Jackson movie than that hot mess

[@katthunter6561]

I always hate the negativity for Treasure Planet. I freaking love that film, and can't understand why it didn't get more recognition

[@danielludwig647]

I love it too. I think there was just a general slump with audience fatigue for big budget animated films or something. It wasn’t the Disney renaissance of the 90s anymore. Atlantis came out the previous year and also did not do so well. And Treasure Planet and Titan A.E. were rival productions that BOTH turned out to be flops. Just a bad time to be putting these out, since by now these films have developed cult followings due to re-evaluation. (Though, I’ll be honest, Treasure Planet should’ve won that little rivalry. Titan AE is a *really* uneven movie that always leaves me unsatisfied.)

[@nkbujvytcygvujno6006]

Watch Breadsword's video on it. It was actually a deliberate financial loss by the executives, because they wanted to sacrifice their last few hand drawn animated movies so they could have an excuse to switch to computer animation. Because-- this part isn't in the video, but it was because computer animators weren't unionized like hand drawing animators were, so they could pay computer animators way less for their work than hand drawn animators. It was a plan the execs had ever since Pixar proved you could use computer animation for movies and it wouldn't look terrible. They ruined the chances of their last few hand drawn animated movies on purpose so they could do this.

[@katthunter6561]

@@nkbujvytcygvujno6006 that makes depressing sense...

[@orangeslash1667]

@@nkbujvytcygvujno6006 The good news is that 2d animation is still a thing in Europe and Japan.

[@semperludens9241]

Hercules was one of the best Disney movies, together with Atlantis and Treasure Planet. They are all chaotic and random but hit marks no other Disney movie dares to hit, they are creative.

[@DisKorruptd]

I'm with you on Atlantis and Treasure planet, but Atlantis wasnt random, and herc was one of their worst imho

[@IamMissPronounced]

They were a child's dream because of how chaotic they are, but as an adult I have a harder time following these movies. They're still superb imo but my poor brain

[@Sandwhaler]

Concept art by Mike Mignola (Hellboy) on Atlantis so it's pretty 5/5.

[@littlefieryone2825]

@@DisKorruptd There's a lot of things that don't quite make sense in Atlantis (Milo, that's not how root dialects work). Yeah, it's a Disney film, but one that's rather serious about itself.

[@caitlinnishikawa5868]

Re: the central conflict and Hercules not exactly finding himself. I agree with what you're saying, but I think that a case can be made for the central conflict actually fulfilling what he needs (vs. wants), etc. Hercules want to belong, as you've established. His family growing up loved him, but they couldn't really empathize with his awkwardness surrounding his unreal strength. Plus, aside from his two parents, he was pretty universally resented by his neighbors. So, upon becoming a hero he finds "acceptance." But I think that's where the shallowness of the advertising deals and action figures come in. He's adored. He's still not accepted as a peer or as a "normal guy." He is revered and STILL treated as different than everyone else. So Hercules continues his quest to reuniting with his family of gods, thinking that once he's on even playing field with everyone he will finally have peers and not just people who either make fun of him (when he was younger) or people who see him as an idol (as a hero). Enter Meg, who is neither cruel to Hercules, nor fawns over him after his celebrity status is achieved. She is dismissive of him at first, but is able to talk to him as an equal, perhaps because she herself is not totally unfamiliar with the gods and with supernatural things. In the final climax where Hercules sacrifices himself to save Meg, we learn two things about him: first, he is now a true hero. He is able to disregard himself in the service of someone else. And second, the most important thing to him is no longer just reuniting with the gods. His central conflict, wanting to be accepted as an equal, is achieved through Meg. She has witnessed his strange journey and personal growth, and is more suited to staying by his side than the god parents who, while I'm sure are well-meaning, just can no longer relate to their estranged son. So, it wasn't really the acceptance as a hero that Hercules needed. He needed a true home, and in the end he realizes that doesn't necessarily mean being with your blood relatives, but rather can be found through shared experiences and common bonds. So, yeah, the movie is definitely flawed and it's tonal problems are a little WTF .. but I think there does exist an argument for the central conflict as is.

[@miriama1140]

very well analysed and said :)

[@comiquecon2778]

Agreed - I also think there is a lot to say in regards to Hercules' inherent naivety. It really is an adventure story in which Hercules is discovering the world for himself, and discovering that the people around him might have other motives that do not relate to what being a "true hero" ultimately is (fame, fortune, endorsement deals and so on).

[@Kirkeyressa]

That's a very good point to bring up but the movie doesn't bring it up as the main point of Hercules' journey (Hunchback of Notre Dame did it in passing but still did it a bit better and had an overall clearer arc unrelated to that). Maybe a rewrite could have refocused it. It also doesn't really solve the problem of Hades being completely surperfluous to Hercules' arc, but maybe that could be fit in too. (sorry if this is worded weird btw)

[@weirdofromhalo]

Also, I think if they hadn't changed "Shooting Star" by Boyzone to "Go the Distance," it would have been *much* more obvious the actual theme of the movie. It is definitely about belonging. The only thing I can think of for Hades is that he's some kind of foil for Hercules.

[@hectorcornejo1468]

It really bothered me that Lindsey drops the ball on the reasons why Herc doesnt find value of all the advertising endorsements, shoes, and action figures. He grew up on a farm [regardless of his supernatural background], he's still the Kansas boy that Clark Kent was (which I thought she was alluding to when she brought up the Supes background but kinda left it hanging). The only reason he really goes after that stuff is because Phil implies it will eventual lead towards his goal of being a hero so he can head home. He finds it as a means to an end, which they made clear in the training montage and later when he confronts his father in the temple by his works and his success, only to find out that mortal gain, power and fame is not the pursuit. In fact, Its been the underlying theme from the beginning til he realized that his needs were maturing to something much bigger, to sacrifice his immortality for Meg and happiness in [belonging] with his true love. Disney has enjoyed using "True Love" as the ultimate motivator that transcends everything in most if not all of their movie endings.

[@anniemz6887]

Any kind of animation + your analysis / criticism + long video = Divine way to pass time

[@heyitschevonne6322]

yyyyyaaaaaasssssss

[@oida10000]

ana malazonia

[@cwonderland6259]

I saw him becoming a true hero as finding "where he belonged" (giving life for Meg proved it and let him stop worrying about where he belonged) and the reason the modern day fame/hero status was bad for him is because he thought it would make him feel he belonged in that role.

[@GreatGamerPony]

this is just 37 minutes of me going: "BOOOOO I know you're right but BOOOOOOOOO!"

[@cegalo12]

L. Ellis: Why are you booing me? I'm right!

[@the503creepout7]

"Megora deserves a better movie. Hercules deserves a better movie. Hades deserves a better movie. Phil deserves... It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia." - Nostalgic Woman

[@NachoCheeseDorito-Kun]

"Two words! I! Am! Retired!" It is actually two words in Greek XD

[@pogfection787]

I personally love the "not being faithful" argument with this movie because it implies that people expect Disney to mention how Zeus rapes a woman at least once a week, how his wife is actually his sister, and how Hades has one of the healthiest relationships out of all of the gods, despite Persephone still being his niece, IN A KID'S MOVIE.

[@zachisebi]

A love Story between a guy and his uncle? What is this? HBO?

[@catherinemihut4211]

No this is Greek mythology

[@yohonjon7331]

THIS IS SPARTA

[@idontknowwhattochangethist9528]

Haha Greek mythology does that

[@yuki_eerhs4591]

@Gabriel Browning Rodriguez we all love uncle Iroh!

[@cursedalien]

Hera is Zeus's sister, Greek gods were basically all super incestuous.

[@VestaBlackclaw]

Hades is the Lord of the Dead and the Underworld. How the hell did he not notice an incredibly powerful soul NOT entering his realm?

[@mckenzie.latham91]

cause millions of people arrive every second...

[@itzanthony2416]

Mckenzie .Latham is

[@clareann8912]

Because movie.

[@ghosturiel]

Did he kidnap her though? Maybe Mom just claimed it was a kidnapping when her daughter ran off with Olympus's bad boy/ Black sheep. I think the Dresden Novels have the absolute best interpretation of Hades thus far.

[@alliesfrench]

Girl, I just discovered your channel and I’m damn impressed. Your deadpan humor is amazing.

[@fduranthesee]

Same.

[@dr.braxygilkeycruises1460]

Good or bad, I still love Hercules because of the Gospel Muses. First time they ever had Black characters with actual names and responsibilities of carrying the story. I appreciate that. And those ladies can SANG!!!!! 🎵🎶🎤🙌🙌🙌🙌🤗

[@RobYTACC590]

I honestly always accepted Hercules' simple plot and "destiny" filled plot issues because it's supposed to be a Greek tragedy. Sure, it can be annoying but at least i know why.

[@ES-qx6ip]

anyone notice that Hercules singing ' to find where i belong ' is the exact same melody in the same key as Quasimodos 'to live on day out there '

[@scremmy_draws]

plus the music in the first shots of the temple of zeus is the same melody as bells of notre dame!

[@HerHollyness]

Lol yeah! I always get those two songs mixed up to be honest!

[@GuiSmith]

@@neksnek2032 They’re a trope, so yeah, most will sound similar. Some use a unique melody, though.

[@theenergetichopecat7006]

I didn’t notice that they sing in the same key there! Thanks for pointing it out, I guess Quasimodo and Hercules love to be soft-spoken young men who sing in the same key all the time. Lol.

[@austinshoupe3003]

My memory might not be 100% but I don't believe they are. They do both descend to their target pitch and use similar rhythms. Melodic descent is how almost every melody ends. The rhythmic quirk is less universal but it works because the rhythm destabilizes when the melody sits on unstable pitches.

[@CharlieRaspin]

This was an enjoyable video, but you've also made me realize two specific things: 1) Hercules' stop-start tone is flawed, yes, but also ahead of its time. The MCU takes the exact same tonal approach, in many cases even apes the [Genre Film]+[Superhero Conceit] format, and is commonly cited as having the exact same problems as a result... but twenty years later, they're the only popular superhero movies still standing. 2) Hercules treats "(Super) Hero" as a celebrity job complete with endorsements etc, which is ultimately weighed down by the baggage of superstardom, because the core of heroism isn't action figures and public image, it's self-sacrifice and pushing past one's limits. It hit on the entire dynamic behind My Hero Academia almost two decades early.

[@sdsign4229]

A tone that goes up and down and starts and stops? My first thought: “THAT’S ANIME! Ridiculously hilarious jokes one moment; soul-crushing heartbreaks the next!"

[@xAutumnTwilightx]

I find the criticism of that "dual" tone in Disney movies interesting. Personally I kinda love the juxtaposition of serious and humorous, of artistic and fun. I don't really find it to be a flaw, like it's portrayed. It's just a... way to tell a story and to build a movie. Imo, it works for Hercules.

[@adrichapa3194]

Charlie Raspin I came back to this video after having first watched a while back, but I never thought about how Hercules' dual-tone really resembles MCU's current trend. Great point!

[@lampad4549]

Bro exactly

[@Seabreeze843]

That's a really interesting take! I agree that you can definitely have it both ways, and the Marvel movies are MASTERS of tone. However, Hercules still came out sloppy. I think it lacked that strong character arcs of Marvel films

[@toadflaxflower]

"Where it turns onto a sorta beauty and the beast thing, and they kinda hate ea-" FANFICNOW

[@tamarbeker1701]

Okay but seriously, do you know where to find fanfics about this?

[@casper3105]

Maybe Id be too biased to say that But I think Treasure planet is not so bad as many critics call it, Personally i really loved all the mixed styles it had and they kinda went well with together, the CGI blended well with it's 2D Animation stlye, the relationship between Jim and John Silver is really great, The side characters are also very fun and you get the sense of an Adventure from its settings and enviorment (personaly i got), do i think it's perfect? of course not, but it has it's own style, a lot of passion and entertaining Characters, i also admire the film for trying and experimenting with the technology, design and characters, overall it's good.

[@devilovesdevil]

It's-a-me Sali I cant believe its even criticized so hard I love the movie so much its amazing, the art and style and the fact it's pirates in space and adventure it's really good specially dealing with a kid trying to find his place with a father figure in a pirate criminal. It was great very visually appealing. Treasure planet and Atlantis need more love.

[@unfabgirl]

Not to mention, it is also Disney's first crack at steampunk, a kind of misfit sub-sub-genre that still has trouble defining its borders at some points (this being when they made the movie, as steampunk has come a lot farther in the last few years.)

[@emmasjoblom]

Thank you. I love Treasure Planet. Not gonna apologize.

[@unfabgirl]

To each their own. None of us will declare it a perfect movie, but for some (myself included) it is enjoyable enough to overlook the worst of the flaws.

[@OnEiNsAnEmOtHeRfUcKa]

Dude, the critics LOVED Treasure Planet. Everyone just assumes it's bad because it was a financial flop, when the reality is it's one of the most well-executed animated Disney movies ever made, and was only a commercial failure due to a lackluster and under-funded advertising campaign combined with one of the worst box office release slots in history. If they'd pushed its release back a few months and thrown an extra bone to the advertising agency, it'd be an all=time classic with an incredibly well-made sequel. Instead, it's a lovingly-crafted passion project relegated to obscurity.

[@agonygrant2643]

"don't go to film school... just watch KZbin videos" - Brilliant advice I desperately needed in 2012!

[@pachidermo]

I mean, I'll commend you on your acting. No way anyone could in fact actually get drunk on Corona Lite

[@noah52_]

or enjoy them

[@QFredfons]

@@noah52_ I mean, it's an expensive refreshment, but it's by far not one of the worse...

[@StuartAtkinson4467]

CORONA!!!?! lol

[@ZijnShayatanica]

@@StuartAtkinson4467 Right??! I had to double check when this was posted to see if it was an intentional, ironic choice. 😆🤣

[@SilverMoon459]

@@ZijnShayatanica same

[@annabelletolley8916]

This is so interesting to watch because on the one hand I'm like "those are all really valid criticisms" but on the other hand I'm like "but it's still one of my favorites and you can't beat the songs"

[@thegmanofEAP]

"a Superman movie where he doesn't care about the populace." Yeah. we got that. it's called Man of Steel.

[@RalphJr-xp3hp]

SuperRay64 this Hercules movie is basically Superman the movie (1978) but in 1997-Disney format style.

[@jacksonelmore6013]

Wow MOS has more scenes of Supes saving people than the earlier films and yet he still comes across as cold and uncaring about the populous in MOS.

[@blakep267]

Jason Avery while he saves more, he does this uncaring and fairly cold. That's what you may expect from a darker version of Batman or other heroes, but not supes

[@mckenzie.latham91]

saving a few people as opposed to then later demolishing an entire town and then an entire city.

[@sdgdhpmbp]

+Jason Avery Oh. Well in that case, he's still an unlikable piece of steel in that movie.

[@DibIrken]

I watched this whole thing but I still think Hercules was a good movie.

[@hillary96renteria82]

Same. Its funny and lighthearted I don’t understand why she expects it to be 100% accurate to the myths. It’s meant to me a loosely based adaptation for kids

[@ritasmith6781]

hillary 96 renteria She totally stated that she didn’t care it wasn’t 100% accurate to the myth. The problem was more so related to the story structure and how it didn’t necessarily build a strong character arch for Hercules and how his character’s motivation weren’t really there.

[@kirbyofthestarsfan]

@@hillary96renteria82 She mentioned her not caring about it being accurate, what she was mostly pointing out is how the story and plot don't exactly do well connecting their characters (unlike most of the other disney films in that decade) So yeah, she even makes fun of people only pointing out being inaccurate as its only flaw

[@insertnamehere917]

hillary 96 renteria you def did not watch the whole vid if this is what you took away from her criticism lmao

[@RFcity712]

analyzing the craft of storytelling, no matter what medium, shouldn't take away from any one person's enjoyment that story

[@darqjade]

"Hades has this juice... floating in a room....he calls it his juice room". I died!

[@marcellaarchambault161]

I feel attacked. I loved Hercules. Meg was my favorite heroine ever!! No guilt!

[@mollymcmurtrie8037]

I know I do love Megara to as character she was awesome