Hey Wizards...STOP! | Ancient Copper Dragon | Commander Legends Baldur's Gate Spoiler | MTG

[@eatit8262]

I used to complain about how they made treasure after gold and it was dumb because of how they didn't synergize. Now I wish more cards were gold just so they weren't synergistic with treasure.

[@micheal5973]

Problem is just gold was even more broken without the need to tap it to sac and get mana. So ya all the great tap artifact synergies as well as getting mana

[@evanbarrett409]

And some cards use when you tap artifacts. Gold doesn't tap so it doesn't affect certain triggers

[@megabubfish]

I feel like they should alternate treasure, gold, and other temporary mana effects from set to set to slow down the power creep and internal synergy of each token type.

[@megabubfish]

@@jameseddleman6944 I feel like we need treasures that function with color restrictions- think Blue/Red treasure, or White treasure. Still ramping and fixing, but less generically powerful.

[@megabubfish]

@@jameseddleman6944 And I'm not disagreeing, but in moderation it would be fine. Nothing that makes more than a Gold per its controllers turn.

[@deidara07]

It really feels like they're overdoing it with the treasure lately.

[@titanium0002]

yea

[@dizzylilthing]

It feels really hearthstone-y to me for some reason. The flavour feels too fantasy for mtg to me

[@firstandlast.1254]

@@jameseddleman6944 ok but then you're playing Eye of Singularity. You're basically proving the point correct.

[@jonathanfaulkner878]

All I can say is at least this SOB doesn’t have haste.

[@regaleagle6533]

@@firstandlast.1254 there’s loads of other treasure hate cards cmon now

[@crash4271]

Treasures were cool when they were unique, but it's so oversaturated now. "This is TREASURES!" "Wizards, this is the 7th set in a row you've shown treasures in class."

[@Bamboori]

at this point, we may as well create a new commander variant in which everyone has infinite mana.

[@waifuconnoisseur4789]

Rofellos is still banned lmao

[@GrimSoulBanisher]

Except mono white, right? We wouldn't want to break the color pie

[@chrisblack7583]

No, thats a terrible idea, to get infinite mana it has to be worked for going through counter spells and removal. This dragon is powerful yes but not game breaking, it has its limitations, like wiffing the dieroll and first having to deal combat damage, also you have to wait a turn to even attack. I see nothing wrong with this card. Keep up the good work Wizards. Edit: also with your idea of everyone having infinite mana at that point we're just playing yugioh and theres no need for lands being a resource. So just play yugioh then.

[@r1k0rose20]

@@chrisblack7583 you know that there is Haste right? And that there can be multiple Attack Phases in Red, especially with the extra Mana for the Second Main Phase. Oh and it ist flying...soooo at least some Evasion

[@chrisblack7583]

@@r1k0rose20 yes i know, i used to play yugioh. That wasn't the point i was trying to make though.

[@baconsir1159]

Probably should have been a D12, like Reckless Endeavor. Would have also been a nice bit of flavor, implying they're the same dragon

[@vicioushellsing]

This would have been a great choice actually. And then its not really much different from a savage ventmaw. The ventmaw gets his 6 mana on attack and not needing to connect. Its also a static number. So having to connect gives you a chance at making more mana. I think the card would have been completely fine. But at d20 you are going to on average make 10.5 treasures a turn. Thats just too many. My Vrondiss and Jinnie Fay decks will love this.

[@Tenshuzente]

Or have it say, "roll a d20 and subtract damage done from the result. Make that many treasure tokens."

[@FreeAtlas.]

I’m over the treasure man. It’s too much. Every deck is just running “make treasure, win game”

[@royal-wolf]

You missed Reckless Fireweaver dealing 1 damage to each opponent when a artifact comes into play. This dragon can literally kill the table with one extra turn spell if it rolls high enough.

[@ferdithetank7535]

Or, you know, casting an extra combat step spell of the treasure you've just created. Another potential Aggravated Assault combo piece.

[@PoppinNoggins]

Double strike tries to remain unnoticed...

[@Oswen120]

Ingenious Artillerist is just as bad. Also anything that adds another die to roll and ignoring the lower one is just makes it a higher chance to roll a high number. This card is absurd

[@liveanotheranime3526]

Don’t think there’s anything really wrong with treasures even though some of these newer ones are potentially busted. It’s just that it seems Wizards been tacking them on to literally anything with card text. I’ll be waiting though like another 5-6 years for more Blood Tokens uses/generators.

[@goatsfluff]

I'm still waiting for more interaction with Clue tokens. On the plane of Clues, instead of more Clue interaction, we got Blood tokens. So yeah :T

[@TCC180]

I mean it's just random gnawbone... and at least it's in red. secretly though, all the treasure they're releasing in sets lately is just to hype up the huge amount of anti-token/artifact stuff in the next set. /tinfoilhat

[@Omega_Orion]

That theory makes sense with Brothers War on the horizon and a big Phyrexian war brewing

[@Doomwarden13]

Yeah... Realistically, they kinda seem to want to push certain specific things, sets in a row, in a stretch. Double Faced cards is a good example, and we've seen lands locked in mechanical cycle from different settings. I think they would rather us get sick of something so we are ready for a change (worst case)? Or at least do some cool stuff that's in that space before moving on. Alot of the standard sets that come out would have been parts of blocks in the past. It's not crazy to think that they identify continuity in mechanics as more important than setting either: more different(popular?) places, tighter rules continuity, and if you have some story that covers more than one release in the year than cool! - it can be however big they think it really should be. It's all one card pool to all of the commander players, and it's all cards they know we might just, you know, use. So I don't think it's tin foil hatty to imagine ways to punish artifacts in the future.

[@flyingblind5677]

Nah, i’m absolutely with you. Being in theme with sets is cool in all, but they really care about money. Create a bunch of treasure token creating chase cards, they’ll get stupid expensive, then in a little bit, create must have treasure token hate chase cards, solves an issue in the format and makes them more money, I mean at that point, why would they not do that?

[@rympha3581]

I feel like I have to run Karn, The Great Creator or Collector Ouphe in every deck that can fit them, with the amount of treasure in the format now.

[@Elmarias777]

When i saw this my first thought was "Hellkite Tyrant"

[@777vid]

it's going to be amazingly hilarious when someone rolls a 1

[@nahboi483]

“Hey that’s good. That’s enough. You’re done. That’s enough- THATS ENOUGH SLICES!”

[@NelsonMendoza-sk6yj]

thats a cool reference lmao

[@ryanbrown5894]

Lmao literally burst into laughter

[@ryanbrown5894]

Lmao literally burst into laughter

[@pnwlassen5655]

A while back I went to make a deck around revel in riches. The card was like 7 bucks. Then every set after had treasure shenanigans to the point that I almost don't want to build the deck anymore. It did turn into a commander deck and is roughly complete but I have to fine tune and play test

[@jonathanfaulkner878]

I’m starting to think Treasure tokens were the beginning of the end. Or at least a contributor to it.

[@degreeskelvin3025]

Imagine this with myriad. Or with that commander that doubles treasures

[@justinjacobs1501]

Blade of Selves is reprinted in this set as well...

[@tracechristensen4208]

@@justinjacobs1501 so why not both plus reckless fireweaver

[@seasnek7024]

That can't be a coincidence since they brought it back this set. Bruh

[@justinjacobs1501]

@@tracechristensen4208 building a Vazi treasure hate deck that runs it already. This guy is getting windmill slammed in next. (Just wish I could afford Old Gnarlbones)

[@degreeskelvin3025]

@@justinjacobs1501 Gross. Sometimes i wonder if they even play test these cards

[@darknova000]

Magda says, 'Hello! :)"

[@michaelhooper8559]

I made a treasure deck a year or 2 ago because I wanted a dragon hoard, and now it's just getting better

[@thenethersheep5963]

One nice thing about a card like this, is you know when it hits the battle field it is going to have a humongous target on its back. Just like etali primal storm, I barely ever see it actually get it’s attack trigger as when etali touches battle field everyone just slams it with removal.

[@kwads1909]

Mass treasure creation is a bit obnoxious, but it just speeds up EDH games to the end they typically see anyways- a massive blowout turn. And in the end, if it means more games, I’m not sure I’m totally against it.

[@AMeekKiwi]

Yeah we all need our dockside extortionist moments at least once. Now we don't need to spend so much money to get one. I see no problems here. I know the play style is different with this one than dockside but mass treasures doesn't scare me.

[@MeisterMiso]

Faster games also mean that the games are more snowbally. That is what I hate. To me commander is about getting toghether with a group of friends and playing a relaxed game with twists and tourns. We intentionally ban cards from the Modern Horizons sets or fast mana for example. I hate the direction this game is taking, they need to focus on reprints and fund flavourfull game mechanics instead of this endless powercreep they are doing for about 2-3 years now.

[@jaredcrawford923]

It really seems like someone screwed up, this had to be meant to be a D8 or maybe D10 dice at most right? There is no way someone thought averaging 10 treasures per hit, in a color that grants haste and double strike, on a body with evasion was a good idea.

[@TeamCardgaming]

How much Support do you want to give Magda? wotc: yes!

[@The_Atroknight]

Brudiclad is interested in this dragon, at least that's the deck I'd toss it into

[@MrJdronin]

I do feel a little bit of treasure fatigue but I also appreciate that there are more options to get them. What I would love to see are more ways to exploit them outside of just mana.

[@eclipse7620]

I mean in a korvold deck this card would be insane, possibility of swinging for lethal commander and drawing 20 cards in one turn.

[@slifer867]

Dragons are by far my favorite tribe. My oldest and most expensive deck is an Ur-Dragon deck. This is A LOT of support in a single set.

[@marvingonzalez926]

I am actually very excited to play this with Jinnie Fay. Turning potentially 20 treasures (not considering Doubling Season and other token doublers) into 20 3/1 vigilance best boiiz is gonna be so much fun.

[@folbrekr]

Exactly what I was thinking too!

[@fernandocortes8875]

I cant wait to add this to my brudiclad deck 👍

[@TheDragonSwordsman]

Y'all can eat it. I'm glad red finally gets something like old gnawbone.

[@trevorkroon2163]

Rolling 1d20 has an average output of 10.5, which means every time this connects to face, you will create an average of 10.5 treasure tokens. That's enough to win off Revel in Riches by itself.

[@cerealboxantagonist]

I feel like some day MtG is gonna top off Yu-gi-oh by printing a card you can just show to your opponent(s) after sitting down at the table and you win the game before it even starts

[@devinburns1374]

Gonna say this is second best card in Magda right after maskwood nexus

[@kevinandrews1073]

Facts. Getting one for my Magda will seriously up her power average

[@tabemono820]

Can't you activate Najeela's ability after the end of combat damage and the dragon trigger resolves, but still before the end of the combat phase i.e. the way ninjas work? If that's the case then you don't even need to use your lands to activate najeela's ability the first time.

[@MC-uj5gg]

I know I'm a year late, but I just pulled one and its going straight into my Delina Wild Mage deck! Excited to see what it can do!

[@BenjiByt3]

Im not just sick of treasure but the big powerful dragons that are in every set. I used to live them as a kid but now they are everywhere and Id rather things like griffons and other less used creature types as a tribal fan.

[@milohobo9186]

With a few of my friends like Krark's Other Thumb, I'm not planning on relying solely on luck.

[@Duskrequim]

The Scrooge Mcduck in me is happy

[@Avaline-Marie]

Saw the thumbnail and literally knew it was about treasure.

[@AquaAK723]

You neglected to mention the Dragon Precon from AFR as well. With Barbarian Class and Vrondiss out, that's roll twice, take the highest roll, and a 5/4 Dragon Spirit token. Add in additional combats, which are one of the most basic upgrades made to that precon, and it gets out of hand fast.

[@SS4Inferno]

Man, my Ur Dragon deck is about to go hard in this set

[@julius-lamaryehudah-yakout1602]

Actually with Najeela, you can activate her ability for extra combat after damage step because creatures are consider to be attacking and blocking until you actually leave combat phase so you can use the treasures generated by copper dragon to put mana into Najeela so you don't need to have any other mana but not getting at least 5 treasures would negate the loop.

[@Simonk_6]

Why so much treasure I wanted to build a jank treasure deck and now this… still not old gnawbone good

[@gyorgyor7765]

There is also CLB's Temur dragon Commander I forget her name, Delina, Fable of the Mirror Breaker, Kiki Jiki, various ways to get Myrid, Karlach, cloning spells, etc...

[@wverms]

A vast majority of the time you'll be rolling between 5-16 Treasures with a 10.5 Treasure average. Sure, we have tons of better ways to combo with additional combat steps, but even without that this card is just...so valuable. And god, even if it wasn't valuable it'd still piss me off.

[@knabseraph]

the 5-16 range is not special, you have the same probability of rolling any number on a single dice. you can say"majority" on any combination of 11+ numbers.

[@wverms]

@@knabseraph it is special though? like yeah, you have a 5% of any given number, but there is still an average, and it is still correct to say that the 5-16 range will be a majority of rolls. it only matters because we're talking about repeated rolls (which we are, as I was talking about infinite combat steps). sure, you could get unlucky, that'll happen. hell, if your first roll is low, it hurts a lot more than if any of the others are, but most of the time you'll be able to consistently pull off a lot (not technically infinite) of combat steps

[@knabseraph]

@@wverms I can say you will roll between 9-20 the majority of the time, or 1-11 the majority of the time. That phrase doesn't mean anything because its a flat distribution. If it was 2D6 then at least you have a peak to talk about.

[@wverms]

@@knabseraph look, you can say whatever you want, that doesn't change the fact that on average this still allows you to have a ton of combat steps, even if you can occasionally fail at rolling high enough. not only that, but its not like that's all I said. I'm additionally annoyed at all the treasures! regardless, this conversation is pointless, and yes I'm including me in that. so I'm probably not gonna reply anymore

[@GhostlyGhost333]

Pulled a non foil and a foil version of this card out of one pack, along with a ancient silver dragon today.

[@laface2361]

I was lucky enough to pull this card from a random booster and put it in my mahadi, emperium master deck, it elevates the deck from slow burn to 1-2 turn wins whenever it comes into play and survives

[@TheHomieNess]

They said SNC was filled with treasure stuff because it was a 3 color set I’m wondering what’s gonna be their reasoning for baldurs gate

[@Madgunner117]

More dragon support 😍 is seto kaiba designing this set

[@EvanForbesIF]

Would have been balanced with a d4. But then it wouldnt be a 50$ mythic(calling it rn)

[@biglove9374]

I like the over use of treasures its making big mana cards more playable. Bigger climaxes in commander games and keeps relying on the non budget 2 or less drop mana rocks there's great treasure generation for any combination of colors. Treasures are an easy mechanic any deck of any color can utilize

[@Johnnyhitman411]

Duke Ulder Ravenguard, This, and aggravated assault are monstrous. Average of 31.5 treasures on the first combat, and from there with myriad still procing it goes up to 52.5 meaning each combat essentially pays for 6+ combats in the feature, that I would call GG since you are getting an army of 6/5 fliers for free, send the non token one at the player with no fliers.

[@Johnnyhitman411]

Ok I'm not a coward so I'm just going to say it here instead of redoing the comment but I was wrong with Myriad. You would just get roughly 31.5 treasures per combat and no more than three 6/5 fliers but it is still insane. that you can essentially get five more activations on average from each attack, removes the "will it or won't it" to the infiniteness of it...I'm totally not putting this combo in a deck I swear.

[@levioverturf9435]

So, what massive super combo are they coming out with that needs this to be able to combat it?

[@JACKSONPRYORBENNETT]

My Henzie deck is going to be making an unbelievable amount of treasure soon enough

[@dungeondavid]

I use a combo of this dragon and the two-handed axe you use the axes adventure for a double strike then cast it from Exile to equip to your dragon to double his attack power. Pretty devastating.

[@natezabinski5615]

Now, what's the harm with a non-hasted flyer with a wittle combat trigger?

[@CodyDockerty]

And now Revel in Riches is going to be a $30 card

[@Kahadi]

You're not likely to get 5 or less in a roll with this, its a 25% chance you'll whiff with Aggravated Assault. You also have a fair chance of getting 7 or more for the Hellkite. On top of that, as long as you get more than needed, whether through that one roll, doubling the triggers, or even just effects to boost the tokens generated or the mana they give, any amount above what you need can just be saved to reduce the number you need to whiff. Get a 6 with Aggravated Assault, attack again, and you need 3 or less to not get another attack. Even less likely. If it was a 7 or 8? Pretty well guaranteed you'll get enough mana next roll for it. It may not be truly infinite with just two cards, but it'll definitely last a few go arounds more often than not. Just adding any effect to double the tokens, triggers, or mana per token just may as well become infinite. Two mana per token? Anything above a 2 is another combat, and pretty well any roll makes it two guaranteed extra combats from the excess mana made. I'm getting tired of the ease of making a lot of treasures too. Its basically turning everything into better mana dorks and mana rocks and feels like its shifted the power creep more than anything else. Why do anything when you can do it and get mana?

[@matthewherrmann9526]

So like, I'm refreshed that the chase card for the set is not a jeweled lotus that every deck should have.

[@stefanjordan4770]

This Dragon makes Magda very happy.

[@matthewludivico1714]

One more terrible use of the treasures abuse would be to boost Artifact affinity with say Storm Kiln Artist, Portrait of Michiko. And would any of the power be transferable to the Ozolith to transfer to say Toski?

[@Kevin-lp3pu]

I'm so happy to put ACD into my mono Red Dragons! 😌 These comments are so heated 🔥 I'm curious how many ways this dragon could be removed and what cards you guys would use to do so?

[@TheMrTazol]

I'm surprised u didn't mention Magda and how many more dragons u can cheat in play in her deck in like... 3rd turn if u're lucky enough?

[@Antimonium]

How long before treasures become a problem because they will have too much support?

[@hawaiiandreads7750]

Bought a couple of Titiana's Song for my Green decks, with all these treasure producers.

[@dm_elliot6832]

wizards should have made it a d6 instead of a d20 and also should have put "equal to the result + Ancient Cooper Dragon's power" that would synergize really with Barbarian Class which (Level II) gives +2 to target creature whenever you roll dice 👌

[@nevermore1570]

I bought academy manufactor for $1.65 before SNC an I'm glad to hear it's only going up from there.

[@Howdy_Cat]

Excited to try this out in my korvold dragons hoard deck, definitely understand the discontent though

[@josephscherer459]

I can hear the irritation in your voice lol

[@matthewludivico1714]

Making the die roll 3d6 would have made a a normal probabilty distribution for the treasures, centered on the mean. 1d20 literally means a 5% chance each of rolling either a 20, a 1, a 10, a 2, etc... But that is just the basic math. In terms of play, it is pretty nutty, since 13 of the 20 1d20 outcomes are more than Gnawbone, who is Legendary. 13 x 5% = 65% the new card outclasses Gnawbone. And then throw in a couple of 3 mana drop Xorns, in maybe a reanimator deck, and you might pull of 30 to 40 treasures in the combination. In a Gruul deck with power, haste, and trample boosts, the new Ancient Copper Dragon is pretty toxic.

[@Phantom-vo8jy]

Red getting more treasure got to love it

[@nekumero3829]

Going straight into my DeLina deck

[@gibsonax]

Atarka and Vrondiss will be very friendly with this!

[@animebrezel1272]

You forgot about magda as commander this will just bring out any combo if you hit a 10 or higher and the dragon will hit the board on turn 3-4 so thats kinda nuts

[@CHEFPKR]

So basically this dragon + Rionya + Aggrevated Assault = win?

[@japplek]

In before someone says "but it doesn't have haste, trample or doublestrike - it's basically unplayable".

[@markkostecki4558]

Its goin in the Karlach deck im making. Two combats on a commander will be nice to have

[@dakotamcintire7419]

Running this in Atarka the world render with old gnawbone and parallel lives XD debating putting that enchantment that gives spells cast with treasures cascade in there too.

[@krunchyapples]

Dude, enough with the treasures already. There's so many things now that make treasures that you'd be purposely disadvantaging yourself by playing anything that's not treasure generators. It no longer allows for any variety in deck structure and the mana curve from having treasures being made so easily just throws off the whole pacing of matches. I would just limit or straight up ban treasures as a house rule

[@CrimsonHiroX07]

I face-desked so hard when I read the card I may have actually broken the desk...

[@spamman181]

Ran this as my boss monster once. Had atraxa the grand unifier in my hand. Rolled a 1 and a 2 and lost.

[@Codence666]

All these treasure cards make Ich-Tekik an actually pretty damn good commander. I built him partnered with Toggo, and I dump counters on him and my golems. Add all my opponent’s treasures and it’s just nuts.

[@mc_mikey994]

What about this card with Korvold?

[@Nik1718]

straight in the Magda deck, ty

[@prinnynaito]

Old Gnawbone and Xorn also became more disgusting with this dragon, at this point red and green dragon+treasures becomes ridiculous powerfull

[@dajanitator9428]

Already coming up with combos with this in my Ognis deck lol

[@combatrobot1443]

What exactly makes this card more dangerous/annoying than our previous D&D related treasure dragon Old Gnawbone, which has a similar (but more consistent) effect, but has a bigger body, and is Legendary?

[@jaredcrawford923]

The fact that we are a few sets further on with no end in sight to the treasure overload.

[@cardbutton892]

Yeah, I run an Ur Dragon Tribal. I even have the perfect slot for this guy. That slot will instead be going to Inferno of the Star Mounts (because I find him hilarious and fun). Its not that this Ancient isnt extremely good, because he is, I just find him boring. Especially since I already run quite a bit of treasure generation, ramp, cost reduction, and cheese-out mechanics in the deck. Sure, adding one more body that can just explode treasure would be an absurd benefit, but perhaps because of the group I play with ... it just feels excessive. Especially with Old Gnawbone already floating around, which I do run admittedly. MonoGreen dragons are so rare in Ur, and as a D&D nerd I do love Ancient Green Drakes. Especially Gnawbone herself lore-wise. That said, the Ancient Brass, Ancient Silver, and Ancient Gold have all found homes in my Deck.

[@allenjohnson7355]

I think this along with all of the support already printed makes treasures a legitimate archetype. Looking forward to adding it to my dragon tribal treasure hoard deck though.

[@ErnReich]

Why is making treasures a problem? Every color makes them now?

[@lnkScar]

This card with the new Miriad mechanic sounds crazy.

[@waaaaaaah5135]

Holy Treasures Batman, that's just too much!

[@sombat2788]

We need more "Stony Silence"-type cards to be printed.

[@robbiehamilton2731]

I just wanted to say vrondris, because he got a precon and it’s dragon tribal with dice rolling, and from the last dnd set

[@noshitsherlock4375]

Even with rolling a 1, you got a lotus petal for attacking, still good.

[@dhayter9448]

Can't wait to play it in my magda deck.

[@RickarRickani]

The aggravated assault/ Hellkite Charger already was a this with savagr ventmaw and Clauth. What makes Ancient Copper Dragon so much worse then Clauth?

[@mywife69]

you can only spend the mana from Klauth to cast spells so it doesn’t combo with aggravated assault or hellkite charger

[@jayv6376]

I've tossed him in my ognis deck. Feels like creating tapped treasure tokens does slow the game down but does prep the table for big plays. This way the have a full rotation before I can slam this dragon down and then run away with the game. Idk maybe effects like tapped tokens can slow the game down a bit imo.

[@w3rm4]

Can't wait to blitz this out with Henzie

[@regaleagle6533]

Ew this is really mediocre in Henzie use Balor

[@w3rm4]

@@regaleagle6533 why not both 👀

[@nathanstruble2177]

And I do agree with "not a d20" I think a d8 would have been fine, an average of 4.5 treasures for getting through for damage, that's a pretty good incentive, but not something you build your whole deck around.

[@kodylucier206]

Gonna sell myself out as a dragon tribal player; but on the note of things that give double strike, dragon tribal has "Atarka, World Render"

[@zeph3r724]

Just playing this in a Korvold deck and u can't lose

[@shakingcow816]

Kaalia loves this. If you theoretically turn three attack with this and role massive would be sick. Hellkite tyrant turn 4 win would be pretty funny