Fasting Length Depends on Your Body Fat %, Fitness Level w/ Ted Naiman

[@AB-hi6ru]

Thank you, I've settled on 20:4 fasting as a 6'2 167lb body builder. 35 years old. It's been good for my mind and body to wait until I exercise to eat. I look at food as refuel not prefuel so my calorie intake is dependent on the physical activity I have for the day.

[@lane1368]

So happy to see someone actually addreses the needs of lean people regarding fasting and autophagy topics, thank you🙂

[@kitheartist]

I feel the same

[@lhl]

Dr Naiman is my GP, so I like him, and the discussion on Resting Fat Oxidation (RFO) is definitely worth bringing up (especially since the comments seem to show that many haven't ever heard or thought about it before) - but this is a topic I've done a fair amount of my own spelunking on in the past, and while I agree that it's an important concept to consider, I think it's also worth noting that the relationship of RFO/MFO vs fat mass is like many things in human metabolism, currently super unclear. I assume the 30cal/lb fat oxidation rate that Naiman mentions is citing Alpert 2005 (doi: 10.1016/j.jtbi.2004.08.029) - it's worth noting that this was a mathematical model derived from underfed (not fasting) individuals - actually using the results of the Ansel Keys' 1945 Minnesota Semi-starvation Experiment. Others like Dulloo and Jaquet 1999 (doi: 10.1017/s0007114599001580) and Speakman and Westerterp 2013 (doi: 10.1242/dmm.010009) have also based their models on this same dataset. Now that's fine and all, but it's very different from making direct observations of fat oxidation from indirect calorimetry or other methods that actually try to measure fat oxidation. (There's plenty of those studies, but they are typically in the context of MFO during exercise, not RFO.) One of the reasons why I say it's really not clear-cut, even directionally, is because there is also research like Blaize et al 2014 (doi: 10.1519/JSC.0000000000000512) that show no correlation in MFO with fat mass or Blaak et al 2006 (doi: 10.1210/jc.2005-1598) that seems to suggest FO rates can actually be lower in obese individuals. Also, as most are aware, Volek and others have shown MFO to be much higher than previously thought physiologically possible in "fat adapted" athletes. AFAIK, RFO has never been studied/calculated in a "fat-adapted" context before. Lastly, while not rigorous, I've seen multiple reports of relatively lean individuals doing DXA scans before and after multi-day fasts and not showing large losses in LBM. All this is a long way of saying that in this particular case, the science I believe is not even "unsettled" but largely non-existent. The individual variability is huge anyway, so the best a person can do (and this applies to many health/nutrition areas) is to be their own scientist in the matter. Try it out, see how you feel and if you are getting healthier, leaner (WtHR is probably the easier home measurement) or stronger (a fixed weighted AMRAP benchmark?) on different regimens. Do more of the things that work for you, less of the things that don't.

[@thecarnitarianlife]

Great insight and info. Not everyone starts in the same place, so everyone's fasting regimen should look different. 👍

[@fastedhuman4699]

That is absolutely true

[@kevinallen5246]

Wow. You guys provide more useful info on fasting in 5 minutes than most other videos do in 15 or longer. Thank you! This definitely clears some things up for me!

[@robbywilson6729]

Also important to note is the fact that extended fasting becomes much more difficult the leaner you are. If you are relatively fat, extended fasting is much more comfortable, but if you are already pretty fit it becomes pretty excruciating. Your body is not getting what it needs and it will let you know this. I say this as a person who has experienced both sides of the coin.

[@JohnwickNS-482]

This is literally the only video on this SPECIFIC topic, “does fasting length depend on the current body fat percentage of the person”

[@spirgtudsrubec7776]

Actually the greatest motivator in this video and loads of other videos and books etc, is the comment section here below this video, like Ivy and Natty etc. It has brought me to the conclusion that cutting back on the stress of it all and taking it at a slow pace. And most of all connecting with people with similar problems, who are reasonably on the optimistic side of achieving a good grip of a balanced food intake. Thanks everyone for your contribution. Sometimes the answers are right in front of you, while you are looking elsewhere. I wonder if there is a forum on this somewhere. All i can say is you all gave me a fresh perspective and made me realize, this is not an individual problem, it is a multiple world wide problem that only together we can solve. Forget about the so called experts, I'm blue in the face from listening to them. If you never had the problem, then you don't understand it and the overpowering urges and subtle thoughts that you battle with every day of your life. So how have they got the expertise to change our situation.

[@kendrikhawk7436]

Instead of all the conjecture and supposition, I'd like to see even one factual study, that proved fasting that wasn't to the point of concentration-camp-level starvation, started "breaking down muscle" in just a few days of an extended fast. Your ability to sleep on day 3 of a fast, really doesn't point to any one thing, since so many variables are involved.

[@rappatenebrense]

yeah, me too. I think 13% pct is not enought for your body to switch to burning muscle instead of the fat. I believe that unless you are at a really low bf pct you will only lose muscle if you dont exercise, which happens to a lot of people when doing longer fasts, they don't supplement the electrolytes and just feel shitty and tired all day and start skipping the workouts after the third day of only water. That said, when I want to cut nowadays I dont go more than 3 days fasting, it seems that this lenght of fasting gives the best bang for your buck when it comes to maintaining muscle, losing fat, maitaining energy at the gym and not fucking up the metabolism.

[@aquamarine99911]

Yeah, Peter Attia is pretty ripped and he does quarterly 7 day water fasts. He continues to work out, and says it doesn't affect his muscle. Healthy humans are designed to have regularly fast

[@essennagerry]

@@rappatenebrense Have you tried exactly four days? If yes, how did it differ? I want to do 4 days just to make sure to get into autophagy and hey why not, if I get into autophagy, keep it going for a bit longer.

[@rappatenebrense]

@@essennagerry Maximum I did was 5 days only water, but the last one was 3 days, I drank water and sodium before starting it then did the whole fast dry, and honestly its easier than water fasting. I lost some fat and water weight, but honestly I don't know if dry fasting is safer or more effective than regular fasting, but I did it for the supposed autophagy benefits and to reduce inflamation because I had a pretty bad face wound after I fell of my bike and wanted it to heal faster, which it did(the nurse who removed the stitches was quite impressed with the lack of swelling and with how quick it healed since it was quite a deep cut). I didnt lose muscle in either fast, but Im not as low bf as mike, im probably around 15% right now.

[@richardchase3346]

Yes, he's just speculating and doesn't sound like he's actually tried, experienced this himself. I've always experienced muscle growth with my 7 even 10 day fasts, including added strength and stamina. And his guesses aren't backed by data or real world examples.

[@mikeerdman4831]

He is totally right on all access. I have experienced everything he have talked. Once you loose the weight back off on the fasting. 16/8 is the best.

[@milanf7571]

Doesnt the 30 kcal/ day/ lbs of body fat come from data derived from the Minnesota starvation experiment? I read this on reddit and did not check. I do know that i this study, they held subjects under high carb low calorie feeding regime. If so, that would mean that these numbers apply for non fat adapted, severely metabolically slowed individuals who would nearly constantly be in neoglucogenesis between meals. Just wondering though, maybe someone can chip in on this.

[@erikgroves5814]

I have tried to dig into this issue and wonder if it was a static number or is it based on the physiological conditions of the individual (i.e. fat adapted vs non-fat adapted, etc.). There isn't a lot of literature or research on this. It is a really good question that I too would like to get a clear answer on.

[@scottishpanda0]

Journal of Theoretical Biology 7 March 2005, Vol.233(1):1-13, doi:10.1016/j.jtbi.2004.08.029 A limit on the energy transfer rate from the human fat store in hypophagia Seymour S. Alpert

[@JK-rp3nk]

@@scottishpanda0 Scott is GOAT! 👍

[@BillyBob-fh5he]

People can burn nearly a pound of fat per day.

[@johnnyh64]

I had to stop the video right when he mentioned the 30 calories per pound. This doesn’t make sense at all to me. So if you are in a long term fast, my body needs about 2000 calories to live each day. Let’s say by day 5 I’m fully fat adapted, that means my body would lose 66 pounds per day! Something is WAY off on this. Or someone explain it to me, because I have no idea.

[@boondoggle4820]

What I’ve noticed is that after say five consecutive days of OMAD, I feel weaker by the week’s end, but when I do eat more on the weekends, which I do eating healthy keto with a focus on protein and red meat in particular on the weekend, I get stronger and my muscles get more well-defined once I actually do eat, as if my body is primed to make the most effective use possible when the nutrients did come in.

[@makokx7063]

I've been eating only dinner every day since I was 13 (for wrestling). I never felt tired or weak and actually eating breakfast makes me sick and lunch makes me sluggish and tired. Try giving it a month or so.

[@Terrahoskins]

I’m hoping I experience the same. I’ve been losing too much muscle and my dr. wants me to stop ADR. Definitely need to do more strength training and eat more protein.

[@makokx7063]

@@Terrahoskins If you don't have a serious health condition it is insane to think fasting would hurt you. Doctors are of course incredibly knowledgeable about illness and treatments but their training in nutrition is 60 years outdated.You are 100% right on the resistance training and protein though. The body is smart, it won't destroy what it needs. If you go lifting, particular for strength (heavy weight, low reps) it won't eat your muscles much because it knows you need them, even if you are in a calorific deficit.

[@SWA81]

What about excess connective tissue? Like extra skin? If the body attacks only muscle, how did humanity survive the times excess was not available?

[@jimschmidt5883]

I would like to see more study on how many calories you can get out of a pound of body fat in a day. I would think it would certainly vary from an individual who does not have fat burning enzymes built up (not fat adapted) and one who does (fat adapted).

[@michelleperry-weidner7298]

This is great information. I have been doing ADF for over a year, and have noticed recently that it is harder for me to get through a 36-hour fast now, than it was before. Now it makes so much sense! Most of the fasting gurus keep saying that there is like 100,000 calories worth of stored fat on your body, but this is the first time I've heard anyone say that there is a limit to how many of those calories you can access in a given period of time!

[@Terrahoskins]

Yes very helpful! I’m not very active and have managed to lose 12lbs of muscle and 18lbs of fat in 3 months-my doctor isn’t happy about the muscle loss and wants me to lay off ADF...I’m going to stick with 17 - 5, focus on hitting my protein macro and do strength training for a bit. Maybe sneak in a 24 hour fast now and then.

[@michelleperry-weidner7298]

@@Terrahoskins Sounds like a good plan! I was doing three 40-hour fasts per week before, and now I dropped it down to just two 24-hour fasts a week. I already feel like I have so much more energy, and I’m not randomly falling asleep during the day anymore!

[@donit.]

Do you maybe have a link to the source to the point that we can only draw 30kcal per day per pound of body fat?

[@briand5921]

Don’t hold your breath. Sounds made up.

[@donit.]

@@briand5921 that's why i was asking

[@dvlORangl]

Seems like bullshit.. in that case he'd be like 0% body fat after a day of fasting

[@briand5921]

@@donit. yes. I’m aware.

[@larsnordlander9757]

@@dvlORangl the body will greatly decrease it's basal metabolic rate.

[@luvyou-baby]

Wow, i didn’t know about this, non of the doctors who recommend fasting mentioned any of this. I very underweight cuz of digestion issues, and I’ve been 18/6 fasting this year in order to let my gut to heal between meals but some days I go for 24 hours, didn’t know I may be causing more harm. I do notice that more than 24 hours I start to get very anxious. A year ago I had to eat every 4 hours or I would get anxious, it’s only after when I started to get acupuncture treatments that I was able to do fasting. Gratitude for this info!

[@allallema]

not really accurate info amigo ...

[@luvyou-baby]

@@allallema what is not accurate?

[@KETODiamond]

I do 16/8 with Keto most of the time. I was 311, now I am 156. It just works for me.

[@luckyfish7582]

How long did it take you to get to your current weight?

[@CarbageMan]

When I was 280 down to 220 or so, I fasted quarterly for two or three weeks. That's just not in the cards at 185. I tend to keep extended rare and under 5 days. Maybe every few weeks I can skip a day of eating, or go to 40 hours or so. I tend to skip breakfast 3 out of 4 days, while having lunch between 11am and 4pm, and have dinner by 7pm (ideally.) Frankly, the only reason I might fast five days is that I need a reset and still have 25 pounds of fat I could easily do without.

[@fastedhuman4699]

I just finish doing a 72 hour fast kept the training the same.

[@AndreasMSchroeder]

We need a study on fat fasting and autophagy. All I can find is some vague mumbo jumbo like „is likely to reduce autophagy“. I‘d love to know how for example a 3-day far fast (Butter, MCT Oil, you know the drill) might have an autophagy benefit for somebody who‘s „too lean“ to do a 3-day fast by the logic of this video...

[@dailydoseofmedicinee]

Health Benefits of Fasting Boost cognitive performance. Protect from obesity and associated chronic diseases. Reduce inflammation. Improve overall fitness. Support weight loss. Decrease the risk of metabolic diseases.

[@vjr6939]

or you can exercise to get all of the above...

[@VytrexMedia]

Increase Insulin Sensitivity Autophagy

[@bullymaguire2061]

@@vjr6939 exercise stimulates 10% of that. Fasting is waaay more effective

[@rappatenebrense]

@@vjr6939 or you can do both at the same time haha

[@DanielosVK]

@@bullymaguire2061 Have you got a reference for that?

[@FoereaperGaming]

Your body will tell you when to eat. Don't listen To your mind, it always wants you to eat. Work out while you fast. I promise you will get stronger, feel stronger, and put on size with time. Remember to get plenty of fat and protein when you break fast.

[@Twatical]

Dude completely ignores how continual ketogenic adaptation can drive muscles to derive upwards of 80% of their energy from ketone bodies.

[@amperage8032]

Twatical Provide more information, if possible. I want to hear more about this.

[@erikgroves5814]

A small point to clarify... it isn't ketones themselves that provide almost 80% of the muscle energy, rather it is fatty acids (which include ketones that are also produced in the oxidation process). The FASTER study back in 2015 showed that fat adapted athletes could oxidize fat to provide energy up into the upper 70's. The ketone bodies, particularly BHB, is a by-product out of the fat oxidation process that can also be utilized for energy and provides all kinds of other cool benefits. But we need to remember that fat oxidation, ketosis, and fat adaptation are all different things, albeit all highly related to each other.

[@erikgroves5814]

​@@backfru Some of the more recent research with long-time fat adapted athletes indicate that even in anaerobic activities, they are still able to perform without burning up glycogen. Rates of lactate production and shuttling of lactate to the liver to be converted into glucose is way up and gluconeogenesis rates are way up from glycerol taken from triglycerides that are utilized. Much of the research on the need for carbs to perform anaerobic activities was done on non-fat adapted athletes. I know that for the first month or two after moving to fat adaptation, my anaerobic capacity really struggled. It increased substantially for a couple months and after 6 months my anaerobic capacity was above where it was when I was consuming carbs. Glucose is needed for anaerobic performance, but that glucose does not have to come from carbs...

[@usurper1991]

@@backfru where have you been my friend

[@claybutler]

People are under the impression that they're fueling their body with ketones, but ketones just play a supplementary role. You are primarily going to burn free fatty acids and glucose. If you don't eat anything it's going to get the fatty acids out of your adipose tissue and your liver's going to make the glucose you need from lactate, glycerol and amino acids. Ketones are always a supplemental survival strategy. Nobody's being primarily fueled by ketones.

[@Onlyfruitsofspirit]

My favorite video, now it makes sense as to why fasting was becoming so difficult for me. As a 45 year old female I only have 900 calories in fat per your calculation so 18 hours wasn’t an issue, but 24 I was feeling bad. I hit my goal weight in January and every day do 12 to 14 hours. I will focus more on exercise rather than fasting now, so helpful !

[@Onlyfruitsofspirit]

To add, as a female I depleted a lot of my iron stores, and at my dr visit I was not in good shape. We can do too much fasting. Good thing, got the iron up after 3 weeks. Iron was severely low.

[@a.walker2498]

@@Onlyfruitsofspiritquestion how did you raise your Iron levels in such a short time?

[@Onlyfruitsofspirit]

@@a.walker2498 I took flintstone vitamins with iron,, 2 per day, ate 2 bacon hamburgers a week, and began drinking alkaline water.

[@a.walker2498]

@@Onlyfruitsofspirit Thanks I'm vegan so I try to get as much iron as possible

[@tracyfinch3974]

Hands down that was the best 6 minutes of information about fasting that I have watched! Thank you.

[@fabienpaillusson7390]

Any info on where this 30 Cal per 24h per pound of body fat come from? First I am not sure I appreciate what this choice of units means and second, 30 Cal seems very small. Is he saying that a fit hunter gatherer would take into his skeletal muscles within a mere 24h?

[@KarlDag]

Yeah sounds like BS and goes against everything else I've heard, specially vs Dr Fung

[@mrsaye499]

www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/111114p36.shtml I'm convinced that there are no ultimate authorities in this realm. It's individual.

[@pakizzy]

I was wondering the same thing, sounds like complete bullshit to me. I’ve fasted multiple times 3-5 days water with salt only. My metabolism sped up and if anything I felt stronger after the fast than before the fast tbh.

[@allallema]

BS buddy

[@echd1]

more like 3000 cal every pound

[@marioques]

Thank you so much for this advise because I have less than 9% body fat and I need to know how to deal with fasting for me.

[@ivantenorio1300]

How can you fast without going hypo? I’d say you would need to get fat adapted first then attempt a fast.

[@EvilMonkey7818]

Depends on the person. No matter what it's easier to stick with a fast if fat adapted, so it's a good idea no matter what.

[@robinp2039]

Gluconeogenesis keeps you from going hypo

[@seanmichaels3787]

Gluconeogenesis.

[@rappatenebrense]

@dennis pickard thats an electrolyte problem most likely

[@shanyingchng4927]

I wish I knew this before I did my 3 days fast (for autophagy to heal my guts). I followed all the advice to do strength training and even sauna to endeavor to preserve my muscles during the fast but I still lost a lot of muscles because I only have about 17-18lbs of fats (based on dexa scan) which gives me just 500+ calories a day. I had heart palpitations and very low blood glucose during the fast. I was monitoring and was going to call it quit if it goes down to dangerous level as per my doctor friend's advice. It took me 2 to 3 months of intense strength training to gain back my muscles (not easy at 41). I think a lot of advice out there for prolonged fasting is for general population with high fat percentage but for extremely lean individuals, we really should be super careful and weigh the pros and cons of prolonged fasting. We just gotta accept that we WILL lose muscles... a lot of it if we do it. Even intermittent fasting length is something we need to watch out for.

[@patrickm7754]

How is only 30 cals coming from fat if you are losing multiple pounds a week fasting while preserving most lean mass? That wasn’t explained well at all by him

[@orbitaljellyfish808]

30 cals from 3500 calories... he had to mispeak. 300?

[@TerriblePerfection]

I also do 16:8 intermittent fasting. Already quite thin, I don't want to lose weight, but I would like the other benefits of fasting.

[@contrarian717]

Also very skinny, 14h is my limit. Else sleep suffers and low energy especially if I exercise

[@TerriblePerfection]

@@contrarian717 I have difficulty staying asleep, often waking after a few hours, but maybe that's age related. I'm 64. 🤔

[@contrarian717]

@@TerriblePerfection yes even me on 52, sleep not as good as in the 20's hey. Healthy eating and fasting doesn't help either!

[@andylyon3867]

I find that 8 hours between meals the most important rule. I am only 10% body fat but fast 2-3 days dry fast most weekends between Holloween and Ground Hog day. Getting 30-40 days of dry fasting a year a good portion of the 60 days of fasting that Russian scientist have determined as the historical and physicalogical norm. Also like a high school wrestler who needs to fast every week to make weight then feasts 4 days a week I find that my muscles and organs over the warm part of the year where I rarely fast take me up a "weight" class after that winter routine of using fat and muscle for nourishment. In other words fasting makes skinny people bulk up and dry fasting is easy in cold weather perhaps more so due to genetics programming it to be so.

[@dakotajohnson3919]

wait so im 6'4 and 400+ lbs does that mean that if on the low end im 200 lbs of body fat im getting 6k calories burned or did I misunderstand. Someone help pls

[@Ginasgusa]

I am 110 lbs, yea skinny, 5’1”.. I am fasting for leukemia and I need at least 72 hours fast. Please comment. Thanks.

[@elycetyler1942]

I am extremely lean and wanting to nourish my muscles and bones. I heard about autophagy and thought that might help with my total body aches and pains, but it’s sounding like fasting isn’t the right way to get there for me. How does a lean person provide TLC to muscles and bones/joints?

[@darkNovaskar]

Yeah I'm lean and a multi day fast feels different than when I was 20 pounds heavier (muscle). Feels bad l, I could only do 1 day and a half before I feel like I need to to to the hospital.

[@pwells2389]

I always feel strong nausea when fasting. Past day three it gets worse. It phases in and out but it’s usually this that makes me quit. Longest I’ve gone is 21 days but of late I struggle past three :( I have an unfortunate amount of fat. I also take in salt.

[@monicahughes2757]

Same me too I’m 42 years old probably 25 pounds over weight That knows you have feeling screws me up. Like I’m on a boat it’s a sick feeling and I can’t go on with my day baby my sugar is messed up I don’t know. But I’m always a person to get carsick a very fast too.

[@monicahughes2757]

LOL I did not mean to say baby😂

[@jakehayes1345]

where does he come up with 30 calories in a 24 hour period w/ a pound of fat? Is he saying that you are not using all the calories in that pound of fat? Is he saying that you can only access that many calories per day from your fat? That's a very slow conversion.... A pound of body fat may contain anywhere from 3,436 to 3,752 calories.

[@grllaspeak]

Started 16-8 for 8 months then 14-10 and now i just 14-10 and 15-9 when im feeling myself 😄. Fasting has been great.

[@michaljilek3356]

When I was 85kg I was doing prolonged fasts all the time and I liked it. Now Im 79kg and I dont even want to hear about skipping omad. But I think 30kcal per pound is too low, is there some study ?

[@birgitk6518]

I did 7 day water fast and I was 62 kg. I was sleeping absolutely amazingly. Just at night fell into sleep without any problems. But I most probably lost some muscle for sure.

[@KrisRaoh]

Depend your bf

[@22darius22]

Where is that number 30 g / lb of fat coming from? In my personal experience that doesn't seem right.

[@dalesherman8615]

There should be warnings on most fasting videos as they are targeting heavy people. Skinny people (like me) get thinking how good it will be to fast, when we really probably shouldn't be. I am 6 foot 150 lbs and went on 60 hour fast...lost 7 more pounds...ugh...but have since gained it back thankfully. I will stick to more 16/8 and try to maintain my current weight. Also to control blood sugar as I am pre-diabetic. Thank you for this video!!! Tough to find a good life balance for skinny diabetic people. : )

[@rappatenebrense]

I don't know what to do anymore, some people say eat carbs, then other say eat only raw liver and eggs, some people say don't fast then other yell at me calling me fatty and telling me to fast for a fucking week. I think thats why some people just go back to eating donuts and pepsi, sometimes nutrition is just too much to handle, I'd just like something simple to follow where I can be healthy enought without having to worry about every single calorie or gram of protein or whatever. Anyway, I know you are trying to help as much as possible Mike, love the content, keep it up and greeting from brazil. =)

[@Onlyfruitsofspirit]

It can be very frustrating. Baby steps, first cut out soda and any liquid calories. Then lower carbs. Then try 12 hour fasting. Then do 24 hour fasting. In 1 year I got to goal weight. I still eat carbs and sweets, just small like kid size amounts. Personally, the 12 hour daily fasting really regulated my cravings and hunger the most.

[@rappatenebrense]

@@Onlyfruitsofspirit yeah, I already cut out processed food, sugars and oils, and focus on eating mainly meats with a lot of nutrition(liver, raw egg yolks, fish etc), then get my energy either from some real food carb or fat, and do IF and compound exercises at the gym with hiit maybe 1-2 a week. Its working well for me, but I still think there's something missing, I wish things could be simpler.

[@Onlyfruitsofspirit]

@@rappatenebrense I don’t think any program should be miserable, but it took me a year to lose the last 20 pounds. I would throw in a 24 hour fast every month.

[@Onlyfruitsofspirit]

And I will never completely give up sweets, but I only eat sweets at the end of my meal, never by themselves.

[@rappatenebrense]

@@Onlyfruitsofspirit Me too, when I eat dark chocolate its usually a little bit after the meals, and yeah, the last 20 pounds seem to be the hardest to lose.

[@試替哥]

That's a interesting point. But,Is there any study can stand for this 30 calories/pound fat 24HR theory?

[@scottishpanda0]

Journal of Theoretical Biology 7 March 2005, Vol.233(1):1-13, doi:10.1016/j.jtbi.2004.08.029 A limit on the energy transfer rate from the human fat store in hypophagia Seymour S. Alpert

[@試替哥]

@@scottishpanda0 Thanks man

[@clifflew4108]

Had to learn this the hard way. I couldn't put on more muscle until I cut down fasting hours. I wasn't losing muscle, but no matter how much I ate and rested, I barely put on anything until I cut down the hours.

[@akanecortich8197]

Recent study and lecture linked insulin resistance to liver fat, not other types of fat.

[@martinirving3824]

Interesting. I'm 156 lbs, with about 14 lbs of fat (according to InBody). I've done a couple of 2 day fasts and felt awesome on the second day but definitely ready to eat that second evening. They were on coffee, with butter and cream, though. I guess there's some extra fuel there? I mostly intermittent fast every day 18 to 20 hours, depending on activity schedule, etc.

[@mattstolzman]

I'm 65 kg and 185 cm and I'm doing 4:20 if, his statements worry me. But I feel so great and my weight is stable.

[@Global.Healthete]

As long as you have your caloric intake don’t even worry

[@astroboy314]

If you feel great, keep going. Nutrition and fasting is so unique, and even this guy says that. Everyone is different. There is no way every single person in the world converts exactly 30 calories per lb per day from fat.

[@my-yt-inputs2580]

Wonder how this applies, if so, to those who are metabolically unhealthy but still a "thinner" profile?

[@mlane905]

@fanclass0f76 There is no such thing; you are what is called, 'skinny fat' or 'TOFI'. That is not metabolically healthy, therefore, fasting is fine, but you would want to encourage muscle growth as a priority.

[@cps_Zen_Run]

I wonder if the 30-cal per pound daily of fat is the minimum based on no or limited activity. Seems to me the body can easily metabolize 300-cal of fat per hour while exercising. Otherwise how could I do endurance training in a fasted state.

[@robbied5898]

My guess would be, he is talking shit. Where’s the evidence of this 30 Cals per pound?

[@thomasvalentine9398]

Important info for lean people that want to know how long they need to fast. More fat % = longer fast.

[@anabolena2382]

So if somebody has lower fat % and don’t want to loose more fat can we still do fasting ? If so how long ?

[@thomasvalentine9398]

Hi, yes you can! You can do a 24h fast and successfully burn your glycogen stores. After your body burn liver and muscle glycogen then it will turn on fat. This length of fast depends on your glycogen reserves.

[@claybutler]

@@thomasvalentine9398 That's not really how it works. Nobody burns through their liver and muscle glycogen. For starters, muscle glycogen is only burned when that specific muscle is exercised. If you sit around all day your legs are never going to burn through their glycogen. Secondly the liver is always going to be producing glucose. It does this all the time. And when you stop eating it's really going to ramp it up. So you're never going to burn through your glycogen. Your liver is going to keep cranking it out. The proof will be in your blood glucose. It's very common for people who follow a ketogenic diet to see a gradual increase in their fasting and background blood glucose levels as their liver takes over the full responsibility for delivering all the glucose your body needs.

[@pubmix]

Fast for how ever you want, but if you don’t want to lose/gain weight, eat your calories accordingly

[@jessicajackson6380]

I thought it was 3500 per pound not 30...

[@MA-fp3kz]

I do 16/8 daily if I go longer I find it really hard to sleep! 🙄 I'm not thin so I just try not to do longer Fasting!

[@liamspeaks9887]

Great episode! Really enjoyed it!

[@Ivy6887]

Thanks for info. I seem to only be able to lose a couple pounds then put it back on in a short amount of time. Having health issues from inflammation. I've tried fasting, no sugar, just clean eating, Keto everytime I do no carb I gain I feel there is no answer for some people.

[@chanellereid1855]

How challenging was that for you?

[@IslandWarrior3317]

I like enjoy eating boiled chicken wings with Himalayan pink salt. Not to break my fast but much later after breaking. Are the wings bad for me?

[@wrenbayley]

I’ve been taught that while fasting may take weight off quickly, an extended fast makes the body assume there’s a famine, and as soon as food is reintroduced it will store the food as fat in preparation for the supposed famine, which can result in adding back the weight lost plus some. Can you help me understand how extended fasting can be done so as not to make our body prepare for famine?

[@jasonpgallery]

I’m fairly certain this is contingent on the amount of body fat percentage starting out. If you get fat adapted you just have to ease back into the re feed with bone broth collagen and do so slowly. But much of the starvation theory stemmed from calorie reduction diets like the biggest loser that caused this type phenomenon, not caloric elimination with fasting.

[@ChimpTree]

What is the benefit of intermittent fasting with a 16/8 protocol daily but eating at maintenance calories?

[@MariA-bu2jv]

I am now in a complete quandary as to what/when to eat. Initially did IF/low carb diet for health benefits (I am already thin) but the weight just keeps falling off. Cortisol up, cant sleep, lost appetite altogether. Now Im struggling to put it back on! Do I just add some more veggie carbs or force feed myself more protein or fat? 🤔

[@metabolic_jam]

"Everyone talks about autophagy....but..." Err, Didn't they throw The Nobel for Physiology to the guy who discovered it?

[@seanmichaels3787]

Dr. Yoshinori Ohusmi got it on 3rd October 2016. Nobel Prize for Medicine.

[@metabolic_jam]

@@seanmichaels3787 yep, my point was those opposed to fasting deliberately underplay the phenomenon of Autophagy on the regular 😅

[@claybutler]

@@metabolic_jam you are mixing up two different things. One the discovery of autophagy which really wasn't the discovery but it was clarifying how it works. And you are mixing that up with the importance of fasting to promote autophagy. This is because the autophagy is always happening. Exercise accelerates it as well. Spending time in a sauna does it too. So he's just saying you don't have to suffer through fasting to get the benefits of autophagy.

[@thelmaviaduct]

So if I'm 200lb and 30% fat, I get 1800cals per day from body fat? Does this mean I don't have to eat and I won't lose muscle mass?

[@annaburns5382]

I have an immune deficiency that 'eats' my muscles due to low igm. I have very low body fat as well, hardly enough to pinch. So, I don't do extended fasting. I eat on the 16/8 or 18/6 schedule and I do well on that. I also tend towards low blood sugar and it gets lower on extended fasting.The majority of what I eat is animal fat, beef, lamb and eggs, raw cheese and sometimes a small serving of veggies. I feel amazing with this and have been doing it for several years. I give myself 'a day off' once a week to eat when I want and have a little splurge, like a gluten free grilled cheese sandwich. It makes it easier for me to be disciplined the other days if I have my day off to look forward to.

[@fastedhuman4699]

I have notice a huge difference when I do 16/8 from OMAD and 72 hours when I eat about the same with meats specially beef

[@anabolena2382]

Doing faster everyday is not good neither your body get use to it after a while and fasting dont work as it should do the best fast is an alternate fasting

[@annaburns5382]

@@anabolena2382 I don't fast everyday, I take a day off every week.

[@danacheong9966]

Don't you need lots of veggies for electrolytes (like potassium and magnesium), minerals and phytonutrients that boost the immune system?

[@annaburns5382]

@@danacheong9966 When I was eating a lot of veggies, I had chronic body pain and chronic SIBO. They literally both have subsided since removing a large proportion of the veggies. Plants naturally produce phyto chemicals to repel predators. Some people and animals react to those, causing health issues.

[@aprilsaccountabilityaccoun2889]

Food for thought. 16:8 worked really well for me a few years ago but when I went back to it in August, it didnt' work. Omad did not work either. But of course I was older and I was fatter , thus why the extended fasts worked for me. I am currently doing extended fasts still. ADF twice a week and then one 3 day fast. But I am not married to this regimen. I am already feeling that even 3 days might be too much. Although currently I am in day 3 of 3 and now feel no hunger. THe last two times I did a 3 day fast I was bigger, in the 140's and 130's and now I am 117. THanks for sharing this. I have many things to ponder today as to how to move forward with maintaining.

[@gizzelyeah]

So I’m 5’7 & 150 lbs and would like to go on a 21 day fast... i don’t work out at all meaning i don’t really have much muscle. Would a 21 day fast be possible ? I have a lot of fat everywhere..

[@mathieskoljasuszkiewicz242]

Thats totally me. After 5 days reefeeding im getting back, but muscle loss each time

[@kevinorr6880]

But the benefit of fasting are not just fat. I understand that fasting benefits breaking down tumor and many more. Would you say that long term fast twice a year?

[@littlemisssunshine2931]

Incredibly informative. Thanks for sharing.

[@celestepapai2190]

I lost 45 pounds on keto and have stayed on keto for 2 years now. My weight and percentage body fat (29%) are “normal “ but my skeletal muscle is rather low. I do IF 16/8. I’m 55. I lift weights 3X/week. Lots of people tell me to eat more carbs but that seems counterintuitive. Anyone from this intelligent group have advice?

[@x-techgaming]

The most important point - DON'T fast if you're in OK shape, and are EXERCISING to build muscle! You need regular protein intake to maximize muscle growth.

[@gc6497]

does it mean I can't fast as I'm underweight ? Because I tried twice and I couldn't. Thanks for this ! Truly a gem

[@tednruth453]

Got any references for that info about fat calorie burn rate ? 30cal per pound, is that at rest?

[@gaurd3]

who's 8 percent and trying to get down to 4%? Let alone via fasting? Who measured what he's saying?

[@ThreeSixFour]

Instagram models, if you want to be shredded that's what it takes

[@gaurd3]

@@ThreeSixFour No that's a calories deficient, very low carbs, with a steady stream of protein. 8% BF itself is picture ready. 4% is Mr., Olympia. The non-qualified cautionary tale of extended fasting is highly unlikely in the real world.

[@annukun7318]

hey guys im about 127lbs about 11 to 12 percent.....i do 19 hours everyday...... Should i decrease the hours AM I losing muscle?

[@anabolena2382]

Thank you for this !

[@stk7778]

im like5' 9" 167 lbs, got some fat on my waist and torso but thin legs. anyone know how long is good at that? also when doing 16/8 when isnfirst and second meal?

[@loganausleyreal-eyes8090]

I wonder about metabolic flexibility. As we undergo during a longer fast and we go into a ketogenic state. People say BHB is muscle as well as glycogen sparing. But I guess when the mitochondria is not fat adapted then yes, the glucose demand is high. Thus increasing gluconeogenesis to a higher degree and gluconeogenesis is a demand dependant process. And even when you are fat adapted but already really lean then... THAT creates the gluconeogenesis demand for survival..? Makes sense to me.

[@CR-to8gw]

I've listened to other podcasts that talk about no muscle breakdown unless you go over 24 hrs, and definitely not if you are consuming lots of protein on OMAD. This is a new take on the issue?

[@allallema]

don;t trust in all you hear ...

[@itsvolts1434]

I think it just comes down to using common sense in honesty. If you were to fast and not exercise then yes some muscle tissue breakdown will happen. The leaner you are the less energy can be produce to make fatty oxidation. General public can’t even get down to 10% BF and I would recommend for majority of people to stay at 15% BF.

[@robertmseaman]

How many hours can I go before muscle breakdown ? I'm 45 yrs. Male I weigh 235 maybe 25-30% body fat.... I do have muscle as well .

[@CR-to8gw]

@@robertmseaman Hi Robert - I'm no expert, but I have been doing OMAD for around 18 months - my body loves it. I'm 53, and got my body fat down to 6% last year. I recommend it for feeling great - but probably not for building massive muscles.

[@TheSurfingCat]

I can see a lot of push-back in the comments from people who enjoy longer fasts, but I think Ted's recommendations are sensible in general. One counter point I have however, is that maybe breaking down some muscle isn't a bad thing, if done in a cyclical way? I'm approaching my limits in terms of personal leanness, but I still follow a two days on, two days off approach to fasting that's working really well for me. I may not be building bulk, but my strength and the overall quality of my muscle seems much improved. Is it possibly that autophagy of muscle isn't as bad as he thinks, when it's replacing weaker, or damaged muscle with new stronger muscle? Quality over quantity.

[@a.walker2498]

Wow well I'm trying to Lost weight and Tone up, I'm 192lbs do you think 2 day's on and off would help me too

[@TheSurfingCat]

@@a.walker2498 I've been fasting for years and I've done 3 day fast, 5 day fasts, OMAD and lots of other patterns. I settled on this because it felt right for me, so I would just see what works for you. I wouldn't go straight into 2 day fasts if you've not done them before. Start with 16:8, maybe try alternate day fasting and see where the sweet spot is for you. I like the 2 day fasts mainly for the mental clarity and it's convenience.

[@FrederickTSchurgerDC]

I'm really glad you reshared this clip. It hits home with my current fasting regimen & the increasing difficulty I'm finding with doing alt-day fasting as I start to get sub 15% body fat. I get to 18-20 hours and I'm ready. To. EAT! Very curious reaction all around, especially since I've done longer fasts. It's especially hard to do a longer fast if I've done any form of squatting in the past week, as my legs are craving something in the mix. I'm wondering if supplementing with some straight tallow makes sense on a longer fast to help me get to that 10% level that I've been striving for. I know when I take a spoonful of tallow out of my collection jar, I lick the spoon like a crazed man trying to get every last bit of it off. Maybe some of the new Heart & Soil supplements would help with that. More questions & ways to explore the answers every day. Thanks for sharing this again!!

[@JessicaLivingOnPurpose]

PLEASE ANSWER I’m wondering if my breastfeeding 9 month old should fast throughout the night for optimal health? She feeds often throughout the night and day. I’m wondering if this strains her digestive organs and if they need to rest during the night OR if babies are completely different and if feeding through the night is okay? She wakes through the night so she breastfeeds in order to go back to sleep. What is your knowledge on whether she should eat during the night? Also wondering if my 3 year old should follow the same keto diet as me? 2 meals a day and fasting inbetween - high fat low carb of course- mostly carnivore / dairy free due to intolerance. Google searches are NOT answering my questions. Please answer!

[@nathanielellis3457]

Feed your child as often as they want to be fed.

[@blackorchid253]

I can attest to what he says. I went from being overweight by 70lbs, but toned( weight trained off and on for years), to my idea weight but flabby. I can’t wait to get back in the gym. I hate this.

[@thebesttheworst2277]

What did you do ... Fasts ? Are you saying your body lost the 70lbs but ate up a lot of your muscle instead of the fat you had to lose ?

[@blackorchid253]

@@thebesttheworst2277 yes, sometimes 48hr fast with little to no physical activity.

[@blackorchid253]

@@thebesttheworst2277 Yes, I did 48 to 72 hour fast with little to no physical activity.

[@No_Frills_Carnivore]

@@blackorchid253 that just doesn't make sense to me...

[@No_Frills_Carnivore]

Why would your body burn so much muscle in the presence of so much fat when protein isn't a fuel?? The body doesn't like to burn it's own protein for energy unless it's in an extreme situation - starved, malnourished, vegan etc.. after quick fuel - sugar, is done, the next fuel to burn is fat. And if you have plenty of it, you can fast as long as you like, provided you start fasting in a good place, not straight out of a sad diet, because most likely you will fail.

[@TheMarshmellowLife]

That is definitely a good thing to keep in mind. I'm 50-80 pounds overweight so it seems like it definitely gives me a buffer

[@merrymeditation]

Yep. Those of us who are really overweight are walking around with like a year of meals on us, lmao. Helps me to remember this as there is no reason for me to be eating at all rn

[@Mimi9549]

@@merrymeditation exactlyyyy , ppl act like your starving but u literally have so many calories in your gut to use as fuel !!

[@alanprice2002]

Totally confused now! You cannot get into autophogy unless you completely disperse dietary calories and then some. You won't do that with exercise or intermittent fasting! All advice I've seen is at least 48 hour fast before you autophogy?

[@jahnwizlmbru131]

Need more on Fasting and muscle. . Love to do 36 hr fast. .and exercise for muscles Is it possible?

[@suesimmons926]

Last year 8 fit, fat adapted Scottish men, 2 of them type 2 diabetics, ran 20 miles per day during a 5 day water only fast. Each lost a couple of kilos of fat, but no sigificant lean mass. See diet doctor podcast #57 interview with Dr. Ian Lake, one of the diabetics. They all agreed that days four and five were the easiest with most energy to spare. It seems like extended adaptation can surpass the 30 kcal/excess fat lb/day rule. More study needed!

[@robbied5898]

Sounds more like he just made the 30 cal rule up. Where’s the evidence?

[@suesimmons926]

@@robbied5898 It seems that he got it from a WWII starvation experiment, which is completely different from fasting for a few days.

[@MonkeyDAnis]

I lost it. I was ripped, healthy as heck and falled victom to the "Calorie in vs out is all" theory camp. I was also tempted at the same time by some of my family having carbage food with them. I gained now 40kg in 3 weeks. Re-start starts now. Its so weird, before in a deep ketogenic state fasting for even up to a week was effortless as heck, now i cant even go a day without it, it will be very hard for the first week. Hope i come back soon, but guess i need 1 month, maybe even up to 6-8 weeks, depend on how fast i can go back on track since i also lost muscle for sure trough this high caloric yet catabolic state. Wish me luck guys. Oh and for everyone who thinks i lie: you know the people who always say stuff like "i cant eat tons of that"? yeah whenever i meet those and what they actually eat, they are full after a plate. Well im truly someone who can eat tons of food, even in deep ketogenic hunger supressing state you would be suprised what i am eating. Maybe some know this weird wanna be MD stefan buttermore or however she is called. she claims she also have insane hunger, yeah mee too. But im intelligent enough to know its a hormone game, and keto helps me with that. Also when i eat how much i want keto, i still dont gain fat. But now i was weak and the bloodsugar rollercoaster had me in control for 3 weeks now. If mike gives me platform, i can also send him my pictures from 3 weeks ago and now, if you cant believe 40kg in 3 weeks

[@humblehalfbreed740]

Good luck! Sounds like you could use more protein!

[@southernsoul152]

I have complete faith in you!! 🤙🏽 Good luck

[@KenWang2]

Same happened to me. It's the fasting and low carb diet that ruined your metabolism. But even before all that it was the soy that ruined the metabolism even more. I have found out they have been adding soy to almost every food including grain fed meats, eggs and dairy. Cows are fed gmo soy to fatten them. Almost all soy is gmo nowadays. Gmo soy slows down thyroid function which slows doen the metabolism tremendously. So stay away from anything grain fed and also packaged foods that contain soy or that say might contain soy, it's a trap they contain lots of soy. For example even your favorite coffee creamer contains gmo soy. I don't know why the government is doing it. Maybe its part of the depopulation agenda and to feminize men lol. This should be talked about alot more. Soy is the real culprit here.

[@MonkeyDAnis]

@@KenWang2 ehm fasting and low carb healed my metabolism and where awesome Thats why i got ripped and so freaking healthy in the first place But then i falled victom to these s*it that once your at that point, you should try re-introduce carbs and its just calorie in vs out etc. Yeah it worked...if my goal was to get obese. I guess without the temtation from the food my family brought i wouldnt have fallen for that, but sadly i did, now im nearly obese wtf This stuff is poison, pure poison, thats the lesson i learned now. Last time ever i will spend and waste time&money to poison myself and later on have to take the torture of riding the bloodsugar rollercoaster again

[@KenWang2]

@@MonkeyDAnis I don't do low carb I'm on high carb. Thats how i fixed mine. Your gonna remain fat if you stay on low carb and fasting cause it doesn't work it's a scam. I don't know what the hell you were eating on your so called high carb diet because you should be losing weight not gaining weight. I'm sure you were eating crap food and not whole foods. And food is not a religion buddy. You seem to get your feelings hurt if someone says something bad about your low carb religion. Give grace to God that's how you lose weight. Glutony is what is causing people to get sick and fat.

[@martinadelvai4115]

Turns out how I intuiivly set up my diet and exercise last year around this time was close to perfect for my situation! Unfortunately I can't do that now because people at my gym seam to have lived under a rock for the last 8 months or so, so I have to go there at 6 a.m. before work and can't do it as often and as long as I would like to. But I guess that's just what I have to work with for now.

[@bradtaergeron4772]

Where did the 30 calories per day per pound of body fat number come from?

[@lowestprime]

what's his source for the 30kcal/lb fat/24 hr figure? genuinely curious

[@robbied5898]

Exactly.

[@monetaryjack1705]

I've lost 20kg this year... aiming for 7-10 more....everywhere has slimmed down amazingly yet even after my last 10 day fast in September I've lost no muscle, can do the same weights. And annoyingly my moobs are reluctant to pi$$ off too....

[@moiragoldsmith7052]

With respect... the moobs may be due to soy and growth hormones they feed to cattle, other live stock chickens etc...There are several studies done over many years suggesting this. Even some 'Grass fed' animals are supported by soy in Winter months. Oh the joy of labelling!! 🤪. Hope that helps. 🤞🏽

[@bygone276]

Isn't it if skeleton muscle break you see it in your very dark brown urine? If not then what's the indication other than MRI etc. When skeleton muscle break can you do workout next day with extra feeling of energy?

[@BatmanBoss]

Awesome info

[@redchakra03]

Can anyone find this "30 calories production per pounds of fat per day", can't find it, that's is very interesting but i really want to see a paper talking about this 🤔. I'm sure it's at rest, because how the heck i can go for long hike when i do multiple days fast, i mean I'm lean, with this data it mean that i can burn only 600 calories a day with my fat storage per day , 1h of hiking can be 600 calorie burn, meaning that after this 1h hike I'm burning my muscle like crazy? So at the end of my 3 day fast i lost multiple pounds of muscle? I'm not sure of this claim, maybe it increase with activity level

[@GGLiEx]

Thank you for this great insight! Didn't know about the calories per pound of fat. Super interesting :)

[@ccoodd26]

Good advice, thanks 👍

[@chuckvee6408]

Isn't this a replay (at least in part) from a previous broadcast? Seems like I've seen this before.

[@dub16100]

Great info.