Hitchens v. Hitchens: Faith, Politics, and War

April 3, 2008 - Brothers Christopher and Peter Hitchens debate the Iraq War and religion at an event organized by the Hauenstein Center for Presidential Studies with support from the Center for Inquiry and the Interfaith Dialogue Association. For more information on this debate, visit www.allpresidents.org

[@markauckland666]

imagine living your life with the first question you ever get asked is "Are you Christopher Hitchens brother? "

[@Star-hg1kt]

Cringe

[@FitratAbdulla]

Little Hitch must’ve spent his wasteful life to be compared to his legend of a brother! Then he comes and attacks his brother only to be taught a lesson yet again by the bigger brother 👍😂

[@fayrefitness5416]

Even worse...imagine your kids introducing themselves as Christopher Hitchens' nieces and nephews. 😂

[@victorrodrigues5448]

Hitchens clearly won the debate.

[@BioStuff415]

he won before started - they both Hitchens. But I wager you are referring to Christopher.

[@navidvarzeghani2789]

@@BioStuff415 Peter won

[@PeboPz]

@@BioStuff415 I'd wager he's making a joke actually

[@adeadgirl13]

You're wrong! Hitchens clearly won! Hitchens was rubbish!

[@andrewtuttle9682]

This is getting out of hand, now there are two of them

[@nosteinnogate7305]

1:03 Hitchens sitting on his throne like god damn Thanos.

[@contempris2383]

Always nice to see family Thanksgiving arguments performed on stage.

[@michaelblazejewski6121]

😂

[@seivaDsugnA]

Just a two on the "Jerry Springer" scale. And that's just because you know they've physically fought each other at some point, indeed possibly for years. It may have even involved cuppafarts.

[@karimmaasri1723]

P

[@ChannelMath]

you can tell they can still have fun together despite genuinely thinking the other is delusional, because they both think yelling over the Thanksgiving table (or whatever day) IS fun

[@contempris2383]

@Jbat-xf5pv Will you lighten up weirdo

[@jamesmay1900]

🎵 We're brothers... we're happy and debating and we're scholars🎵

[@transmogriff]

🤣😂🤣🎷

[@indianumberonecountry]

Bru 😂😂 what movie is the one that goes ‘were brothers we are happy and were singing and were colored’

[@Brush19138]

@@indianumberonecountry The Wayans Brothers. It's a TV show.

[@zacktrever1878]

Give me a high-five (or at least I remember it that way)

[@luckylarry71]

I lost this when Peter went on about the worship of Moloch and Ashtoreth in Britain and you could hear Christopher laughing his ass off in the background 😂 It's so wholesome that these two are actual brothers, arguing on such profound topics in front of a literate and genuinely invested crowd, but still mange to ever so slightly crack each other up.

[@soggybiscotti8425]

What about 1:08:53 Christopher absolutely annihilates Peter about his column being smaller and less renown and important than his and sent him straight to the emergency room, directly to the burn unit. You can literally hear the hurt feelings in Peter's voice when he replies with "However widely syndicated I am, I wouldn't want it there" as he slinks back into his brothers shadow haha. It was a bit harsh but it was absolutely hilarious. That's what he gets for trying to bring up personal s**t lol. Peter started the fight with his attempt at an answer to Christopher's challenge with a personal story, but Christopher ended the fight with one that landed like a God damn 747

[@krissmith7]

Haha yep the sudden laugh is fantastic.

[@myyoutube7144]

​@@soggybiscotti8425The biggest problem was Peter's answer to Hitchens's challenge was nonsensical. He stated something an atheist chose not to do, (his words) not something they couldn't do.

[@rafaeldiromano2085]

Xmas dinner at the Hitchens family must've been a joy to attend. Perhaps not always for the parents of these two gentlemen. Lovely to listen to and amusing at times too

[@airforcepac]

Brotherly love & sibling rivalry at its finest. RIP Cristopher. You've made me think.

[@skinnie2838]

Hitchens is a creationist now. Sad how many people he brought to hell with him...

[@YourTripleScorpio]

​@@skinnie2838St. Pete will damn you?

[@brettthompson6965]

Sure miss this guy. The world would be in a better place if Christoper Hitchens was still with us.

[@skinnie2838]

Hitchens is a creationist now. Sad how many people he brought to hell with him...

[@GuardianSoulkeeper]

​@@skinnie2838He's dead you idiot.

[@neoyokvio]

@@skinnie2838 you're weird...

[@Chris-we7hh]

The western world is unironically in a worst place due to his fervent antitheism and his influence on millennial youths that are now taking over positions in the west. Wokeism is the new religion replacing Christianity, anything the latter holds dear like humility and conservativism is now evil. Now blatant Satanism is accepted. Hedonism, gluttony and greed, along with the seven deadly sins, replaced Christian core values. Traditional man and woman is replaced by 50+ genders, men can now become women, and something that was treated as a joke before like two-spirit and furries are becoming legitimate identity. And then the endgame of it all, the so-called MAPs, is slowly coming to fruition... Quite fitting though that the hateful atheist Christopher died early while the former socialist and reformed conservative Peter still lives.

[@borninvincible]

@@skinnie2838lmao y'all bible thumpers have no power here

[@thiest1205]

We never hear a lot a out Mr&Mrs Hitchens who gave us two of the greatest intellectuals to grace our screens, thank you Mr&,Mrs Hitchens,

[@irielion3748]

A suicide death you muppet!

[@ttrestle]

01:51:24 - because atheism is not a side. Atheism just means that you see no evidence that any gods exist. Just because you’re an atheist just like if you didn’t believe in unicorns, or didn’t believe in fairies, because there was no evidence does not mean that you have a set series of belief systems. meaning if I didn’t believe in unicorns, it did not mean automatically that you understood what I believed about morals or ethics or politics, etc. I just don’t understand why Christians and why religious people can’t understand this basic point. And I also disappointed that Christopher Hitchins did not make this point to the audience.

[@jameswallace7494]

I learned some very important history from this debate. Thank you, brothers, for your points of perception.

[@joshuagrubbs5207]

Ppl often ask who I’d have dinner with dead or alive.. my answer has never changed over 10 years.. Christopher would be an honor to pick his brain

[@Reignor99]

It's hilarious to watch 2 famous intellectuals endure sibling rivalry on a world stage.

[@soggybiscotti8425]

Well.... one famous intellectual. And his little brother occasionally pops out from under his big brothers shadow. Hehe

[@myyoutube7144]

One famous intellectual and his younger brother.

[@chrispywilliams1992]

From 1:56:13 on CH has a great moment and great answer that gets better as it goes along

[@pedrocostaesilva7239]

War is just business

[@TheDwarfShortage]

Frasier vs Niles

[@kingoffire9373]

Love this comment! "I'll write an expose on your expose!"

[@TheFormerkgbchief]

Really not

[@sfms952]

@@TheFormerkgbchief

[@sfms952]

@Kelly Smunt Oh my bad. *UAPs

[@andrewtuttle9682]

Hitchens definitely won the debate

[@Alan-fk2kt]

Pete kicked his ass.

[@skinnie2838]

Hitchens is a creationist now. Sad how many people he brought to hell with him...

[@neoyokvio]

@@skinnie2838 you're weird...

[@MS-np2nf]

@@neoyokvio hes right

[@tshirtjay]

​@@Alan-fk2ktNot by a long shot lol

[@stevebrindle1724]

History since this debate has shown us that even a man as outwardly intelligent as C.H. can be utterly wrong!

[@itzyourbwoytchybooxuur6475]

How so mate?

[@stephenzavatski8016]

@@itzyourbwoytchybooxuur6475 what Peter said, the justifications he uses for Iraq can be applied other nations. Hitchens maintains that it has to be all four that he mentions, but any one can be seen as a justification. It was always about central banking and his opposition to it, just like Gaddafi, Hitler, etc.

[@johnsmith1474]

Is that supposed to be a surprise? If catching him out as wrong on an issue is all you got, you got nothing on him you don't have on everyone.

[@Slippindisc]

@@johnsmith1474 it just seemed to be an observation man. The guy isn’t like a religious figure for you or something is he?

[@MattSingh1]

@@stephenzavatski8016 oh dear: brown-shirt populist arguments. *You're a babbling fool. Christopher made the likes of you (and your sophomoric arguments) look like a total buffoon.*

[@WilbertLek]

I'm not sad enough to borrow happiness from a fairy tale that tells me I'm special.

[@seivaDsugnA]

I think it's comfort from fear that's borrowed, not "happiness".

[@gowsif_dnb]

​@@seivaDsugnA it's neither

[@krissmith7]

No it tells you you’re not special. That’s the point :)

[@BobDingus-bh3pd]

I don’t fear death. I fear living in ignorance of a higher power. I can live with finding that there was no purpose. I can’t live with finding that there was purpose while I went on without it.

[@PigBenis4U]

If a religion tells you to cut the penis of newborn children, then it's bad.

[@elsacollins3207]

Peter Hitchens, a big thank you! for putting a complain to BBC on the 2018 Douma chemical attack in Syria report by the BBC, whic had serious inacuracies. You are our voice! All our respect and admiratuon for you! From Elsa and family.

[@Ano-Nymous]

As much as I love to listen to the other topics of debates he took part in it's kinda sad to see Christopher argue for the politics of this war. And as we know by now his arguments didn't age well. The decision to invade had nothing to do with bringing freedom to the iraqis, but with Saddam's decision to make the Euro the currency to pay for his oil instead of sticking to the US dollar. It's hilarious to even make such an argument as if the US military complex is interested in anything like freedom or human rights at all. Nevertheless he was a brilliant mind, may he rest in peace.

[@ericstrattendgtmy]

“Many are called(everyone) but few are chosen”. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. ..”

[@creakycracker]

One thing I find with these debates is how easy it is to forget that God exists outside of Time. "Why does God allow death, suffering or injustice?" is a question asked by folks who don't realize He knows everything that has, is, or will happen. The end of this realm has already been chronicled in Revelation. It is like reading the book and telling the ending to everyone going in to see the latest blockbuster film . My mother loved me but she let me pull the cat's tail until I got scratched and by her not intervening I learned to leave the cat alone. We are immortal souls living in temporal bodies and this life is not forever. Eternal suffering is inestimably worse.

[@susieh9515]

We need to Spiritually. Get in tune with our iner power. Learn about ur chakras. Opwen our minds break out of the matrix. We have been indoctrinated far to long time to break out. Unlearn what they what they taught us in school. Everything but basically mathematics to a certain degree. Like dinosaurs not real. Look up tataria mudflood.

[@cheddarbeansoup]

Yeah, that absolute makes no sense

[@rsr789]

@@creakycracker Demonstrably prove your claims, or STFU.

[@DannisTheManace]

Many < everyone

[@XOXO-mb2vh]

I can't wait to see who our future awesome thinkers will be. So many classics have passed away🍿

[@West-rn-showvn-ist-chick]

There won’t be any.. have you seen the decay of and censorship of critical thinking these days? If you’re not allowed to offend anyone you lose the ability to hear different sides to things.. Vaccine injuries are being censored, the horrors of the Islamic faith are being censored, criticizing ANYTHING is being censored! They have SAFE SPACES in Universities of all places.. THE place where you are supposed to have debates and because people are so easily offended these days there are no debates.. Your not allowed to voice differing opinions.. If you say men can’t be women and shouldn’t be allowed to perform in biological women’s sports you are at risk of being fired for your job or kicked out of your university.. So if there are enlightened great thinkers we won’t be able to access them.. Hitchens would have been cancelled in today’s time..

[@aaronbryant8074]

@@West-rn-showvn-ist-chick Your reply sums it up, but not how intended...it's the kneecaping of education from a young age until adulthood. Groups in power (corporate, religious and military institutions along with right and left leaning fanatics) have pushed legitimate education to the side for emotional and instinctual reliability in the systems of control. Now instead of proven science religious "doubt" is allowed to be an option. Instead of proven mathematics " personal opinion" is allowed to be an option...all because people are uncomfortable with acceptance of the fact they don't know what they are talking about.

[@Slippindisc]

We don’t and won’t have any. If we do it will be a miracle. Anybody pushed forward by the current media and education system will simply be good at regurgitation of the party line.

[@johnpineda9373]

Peter was right

[@katarinahinsey3931]

"An idealistic war for the best of reasons " how naive can you be

[@lordthicknipples6633]

Idealism is where thought is the form of history and everything. If idealism were true, religion would not only be true, but religiously motivated war would be justified. Dubya summoned Billy Graham to do just that.

[@courtneyd9438]

Very entertaining and gave me a lot to think about!

[@SkullKing11841]

CH had been for regime change in Iraq since the 1990's. He was opposed to the 1st Gulf War at that time and then saw that there were Kurdish people in Northern Iraq saying(and yelling)that Bush Senior saved them. So he went to see what it was all about. From there he had a pretty large reversal of his opinions through the 90's. He said that the intervention in Bosnia and Kosovo changed his mind about military intervention.It was no quick jump of the fence and when the facts change,so should u :)

[@doittoit4116]

I wish this man was still with us!

[@poozer1986]

Me too

[@Samn3212]

@@poozer1986 wait a minute…

[@aprylvanryn5898]

me 3

[@AG-io5wr]

Good on you mate 😂

[@lilianfowler7988]

Peter doesn't understand empathy. It isn't God that tells me things are wrong it is my empathy. Because of abuse by my parents I have little empathy for myself. This has nothing to do with religion but my own experiences.

[@bono894]

Who determines that is “wrong”? In your worldview the only reason it’s wrong to do that is based on your arbitrary notion of right and wrong. You have nothing but a circular argument, it’s wrong because it’s wrong.

[@BiggyJimbo]

​​@@bono894 I would prefer to live in a world where people use their own moral compass and think critically , as opposed to those who require the direction of an omnipotent dictator to function.

[@bono894]

@@BiggyJimbo What if my moral compass comes to the conclusion that might makes right? I’m stronger therefore I’m right and morally justified even if I want to victimize and exploit others for my own benefit.

[@BiggyJimbo]

@@bono894I have a feeling you may be playing devil's advocate. Some (I'd imagine a minority) may come to that conclusion, yes. You are right that with this worldview, there is nothing objective to indicate whether something is right or wrong. In a world without a celestial dictatorship, there would be free will. However, I'd still rather live in that world than one where people don't question authority. Human beings are naturally social creatures. While a few would take advantage of others at any given opportunity, I'd like to believe that the majority of people have an innate moral compass that would tell them not to kill, murder, or steal. Human society is fundamentally reliant on such values to function symbiotically. Are you suggesting that only the fear of god and his commandments can instill these values in society? If it were somehow proven that God wasn't real, do you really think that the world would suddenly descend into self-centered chaos? I find it unlikely. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do not think that deep down we are all violent psychopaths.

[@bono894]

@@BiggyJimbo We already know that in a godless society like in Nazi Germany that the majority did in fact agree with the genocide and eugenics program of Hitler. In modern America we have millions of people who think murdering infants in the womb is perfectly fine. But how does a majority rule argue for objectivity? It’s like saying that because most people before Copernicus believed that the sun orbited the Earth therefore they were right. Consensus doesn’t determine truth.

[@edwardgriffin3922]

Looks like Peter has been vindicated as the Afghan debacle has now also shown

[@EiziEizz]

C Hitchens didnt appreciate enough that the enemy (Christian right neocons) of my enemy (Pisslam) is not my friend.

[@johnsmith1474]

Afghanistan has been an extremely minor war based on it's scope. The trick in it is that the operators have allowed the cost to run up to create a self sustaining profit center for the investor class. Minimum soldiers, maximum cost per day. This is business not war.

[@columanderson6079]

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[@rath6599]

He definitely got the last word. I'm rewatching this now, the first 30 minutes are the Idealist versus the Empiricist.

[@Lousy_Bastard]

@@johnsmith1474 Yes war is a racket.

[@robertdavidson9393]

Par excellent debate!

[@N3Rd32]

Immense respect for both these gentlemen. RIP to Christopher. Very missed and loved.

[@skinnie2838]

Hitchens is a creationist now. Sad how many people he brought to hell with him...

[@N3Rd32]

@@skinnie2838 You sound both mad and ignorant. Lol

[@GuardianSoulkeeper]

​@@skinnie2838He's dead you idiot.

[@neoyokvio]

​@@skinnie2838 you're weird...

[@MS-np2nf]

@@neoyokvio hes right

[@stevebrindle1724]

Peters comments about the breakdown in manners and common decency to each other in the UK apply only to London and the south! In the north of England, we say thank you to the bus driver for taking us to our destination and open doors for people carrying things etc, etc!

[@EdwardBrackstoneFilms]

As a fellow northerner I have noticed a decline in that albeit a small one

[@johnwhorfin5050]

peter i see now was pre rehearsed, like a travell ing side show

[@pugz9220]

@@johnwhorfin5050 Is an absolute

[@abb5596]

No it's just London, northerners are considered generally rude by southerners. London is not considered England anymore in the south

[@imma5269]

Disagree pretty hard bruv

[@TheSymphonyOfScience]

Huge fan of Christopher, for 10 years, at least. But lately I gravitate more and more towards Peter's point of view. Not religiously(I'm still an atheist), but politically.

[@zograf4572]

Peter is far wiser than Christopher.

[@TorahObservantUnitarian]

Might wanna pick up his religious beliefs as well. His judgement is just . As you've agreed with him much.

[@johnsun3854]

Christopher was wrong on everything here. Pure emotionalism, deflections and straw man arguments. Hard to believe he is considered an intellectual with such disregard of trying to find truth. Oh yea, he must be a postmodernist...

[@copyninja8756]

@@johnsun3854 Nah hes a smart man no need to throw him out because you disagree. Gotta learn to transcend shallow dichotomies

[@taterpuddin2592]

You agree more with Christopher when you're young, and Peter when you mature. That's what happened to me at least.

[@GozerTheGozerian]

Hitchens had some good points, but Hitchens effortlessly refuted those points and offered counterpoints which Hitchens was not able to handle. This is a tough one, but I'd say Hitchens probably won this one.

[@richardsmart1496]

Rubbish.. Hitchens won obviously his heart felt points made sense to me.

[@jasoncharrier7940]

This comment is simple yet hilarious 😂

[@TheGregcawthorne]

Christopher Hitchnens was EXTRA sassy here!

[@joshuadc82]

Christopher has the silver tongue but Peter has the lamp of wisdom. This is one of the greatest debates ever.

[@videogreats4442]

Perfectly said.....! Wisdom over Words.

[@skinnie2838]

Hitchens is a creationist now. Sad how many people he brought to hell with him...

[@neoyokvio]

@@skinnie2838 you're weird...

[@gowsif_dnb]

​@@neoyokviohe's right. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.

[@neoyokvio]

@@gowsif_dnb sure buddy

[@ndeepowder]

Peter was such a that lol, we all are lucky to live in a time when Christopher's works are recorded in print and video. I salute you Christopher 👏

[@gowsif_dnb]

😂

[@michaels8638]

shame he’s not here to see the mess left in the Middle East, I do hope 20 yrs from now he’s right , if Iraq does turn a corner and becomes a truly democratic state then it will have been well worth it and can help lead the way for the other tyrants in the region to be toppled For those countries still trying to implement democracy like Egypt and Libya I hope. In time they have found a peaceful solution to offer their people a better life. I believe this may shift others in the Middle East towards democracy, yet I can never see Saudi family giving up power and with US backing it may never need to look to democratic outcome.

[@TheAwesomeGingerGuy]

this is exactly the argument the neo-cons made for the war - and they were wrong. arab countries are moving further towards dictatorship and the west is basically starting to accept it, and thus support it (e.g., UAE, Saudi, Egypt)

[@BloggerMusicMan]

I'm rewatching this debate after about 10 years. I agree with Peter Hitchens generally on both issues debated, but Christopher Hitchens' skill in debate is unlike anything I've ever seen.

[@joshuagrubbs5207]

I feel as if Christopher’s view of religion is truly needed today as a holy war erupts across the Middle East, as he said “we must leave religion behind.” Imagine where we would be if we truly valued secularism and intellectual honesty? The lives saved, the minds of children saved .. sad to see man.

[@sticksman1979]

In 2023, Peter is right.

[@SNORKYMEDIA]

er no he isnt , we still have no credible proof

[@ashleelmb]

I like Peter but his S whistles are slightely irritating.

[@kristn6513]

What incredible parenting these men must have had. Peter must miss his brother emensly, as do I ✌️💙Hitchens

[@teodelfuego]

Hate to break it to you, but the Hitchens lost their mother when they were in their early 20s when she acted on a suicide pact she had with her lover. Their father was a distant member of the English navy. The two brothers were never close and did not like each other.

[@ivajloberberov1732]

Hello from West Sacramento. As one may remember the Government Of England John Major and company were on the Television 📺 show when the John Major and company apologized to the the Folk of the United Kingdom for going to war in Iraq.......Have a good day now!

[@capitalb5889]

I don't remember actually

[@seldom_bucket]

I didn't know who peter was untill just now, im instantly reminded of ridcully meeting his brother. I think pratchett was possibly paying homage to christopher. Every now and then i find something out that adds more to sir pratchetts knowledge and insight, like the trolls seeing time backwords.

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

Thank you.

[@life42theuniverse]

1:29:42 If there was a designer of the universe... it isn’t any of the ones that we have designed.

[@aprylvanryn5898]

Salam a lakum as they say in Detroit made me laugh pretty hard

[@MPM_News]

THIS WAS BRILLIANT

[@simbad909]

Wow such restraint ..well done

[@russellcampbell3500]

brilliant debate. would love to pick this man's brain.

[@NO-GAMES]

Bet it tastes like chicken.

[@Cyborous]

1:47:38 Tell to the Native Americans where the lot of them were bludgeoned if they didn’t convert and a lot of them were killed and forced to convert by Christian’s And forced to abandon their perspective and adopt their Religious viewpoints out of fear or be killed until they converted

[@vanguard4065]

yeah sure

[@tommyvictorbuch6960]

It was always only a matter of time, before the two brothers turned on each other. Strong stuff.

[@daryljay7057]

War is Hell is no argument! It must be terrible! Only the reason matters! Miss Chris!

[@maxclive2138]

I bet Christmas dinner in that house was interesting.

[@KoalaBear499]

Imagine their poor mother!

[@TheStanley1000]

They hated eachother, they wouldnt spend xmas dinner for most of their adult life

[@TheStanley1000]

@@KoalaBear499 They were very young when their mother killed herself !

[@FannyShmellar]

@@TheStanley1000 They didn’t hate each other, they just disagreed on many issues. Lots of that seems to be down to the fact that Peter looked up to his brother and respected him, and wanted to come out of his shadow so decided to take the opposite view of his brother on many issues.

[@TheStanley1000]

@@FannyShmellar WRONG ! Read both of their work and memoirs, you will understand what and why they disagree on many issues. And the vile comment of Christopher on his brother should maybe make you understand who's jealous of who. Nice psychology shot, but cheap one

[@lanmola]

for the love of god, please take away his clicky pen

[@Inigo_The_Son]

It boggles the mind that seemingly intelligent people can base their lives on a fairy tale.

[@ryngobrody1627]

Can anyone tell me what Peter said at 1:29:40? I didn't understand the word.

[@shannon3944]

"I think I can now return the accusation". Is that the part?

[@sarabhabib1003]

It does not matter who won the debate. 10 years after this debate, we have lost the war, our nations honor, and 8000 American lives and we left Americans behind… living Americans. Our politicians have fucked us… again.

[@Cyborous]

1:30:49 That was a good question because quite a few Christians do believe young in earth. My grandpa and grandma are Christian and they don’t believe in dinosaurs Because they think it’s a hoax.. Even though they see dinosaur bones. I think that guy is absolutely right with his question.

[@TleeMN]

There’s real dinosaur bones? I have never seen them.

[@pkingpumpkin]

Some Christians may believe in the young earth theory, some do not. No where in genesis does it state the "Earth is 10 000 years old" that young Earth theorists like to tout. I think that Peter is likely an "old Earth theory" kind of guy given his answer and therefore really doesn't see an issue with dinosaur fossils

[@11Kralle]

Why should a question about what "quit a few Christians do believe" be a good question to put before Peter Hitchens? Is he supposed to rebuke or assume everything that is put to him by members of any christian sects? Most people, who believe in the literal meaning of any holy scripture do not have the mental faculties to handle said texts in their original, untranslated form. There's no tarmac, toilet-paper or typewriting in the Bible mentioned as well, so people will think these phenomena are a hoax as well? Even the technology, that is necessary to print a bible is based on scientific achievements contradicting the literal interpretation of its contents.

[@gowsif_dnb]

​@@pkingpumpkin an honest Christian can follow the genealogies and see there are roughly 2000 years from Adam to Abraham, and roughly 2000 years from Abraham to Jesus. That would make the earth roughly 6000 years old, plus or minus a couple hundred years.

[@gowsif_dnb]

That's mostly because language changes. The word dinosaur was invented in the 1800s. Before that, we used a different word. "Dragon" was a word used for various reptiles. It included reptiles with hip structures that results in the belly being on the ground (komodo dragons and crocodiles), reptiles with hip structures that result in them being raised off the ground (dinosaurs🦖🦕), aquatic reptiles (plesiosaurs), and flying reptiles (pterodactyls). Most indigenous histories mention living among different dinosaurs. We have cave drawings that suggest we lived alongside these creatures. The Bible mentions dragons. Behemoth and Leviathan (found in Job) sound very much like a Brontosaurus and a Plesiosaur, respectively. I'd say the evidence suggests that dinosaurs were real, and humans were familiar with them. Interestingly, we have dragon accounts all over the world. Some mention water "serpents." Some mention fiery winged serpents, similar to the biblical account found in Numbers. We think of dragons as myth, but dinosaurs as real. We have an eel that generates electricity. We have a beetle that combines and shoots chemicals out of it's backside that react reach boiling temperature, burning flesh. We have a bug that generates it's own light with 100% efficiency and zero heat loss. (Compare that to our light bulbs, which suffer from around 90% energy loss to heat) I don't know why a lizard that breathes fire is so unbelievable. They were only decided to be a myth in the last few hundred years. Some people heard all these stories of dragons and went looking for one. When they didn't find any, they concluded dragons were mythological. Interestingly enough, this was at a time when people had no concept of extinction. The belief was that if you couldn't find a creature, it never existed.

[@Beesmakelifegoo]

Absolutely amazing! Thanks. Yes,yes, Religion has to GO

[@krissmith7]

Hitchens won this easily.

[@arcagebuttons5987]

Will it be brother against brother here too!? Tell me if you know this quote.

[@caroljohanson2807]

I do recall that quote from the Revelations, King James Bible. When I was a child I could not imagine that could be. I have two brothers who love one another and to see them fall away would be heartbreaking. But it’s happening all over the world. This feels like the end times spoken if in the end of the Bible. All mankind has heard the word and we are becoming Globalized. The end of physical money Surveillance states and persecution of Christians. Earthquake Fires Floods Murder Human trafficking The feasts of Satan on humans Desecration of families It’s very compelling to see the prophecies coming to be present

[@arcagebuttons5987]

@@caroljohanson2807 nope that's no where I got it from.

[@IndigenousHebrew]

@1:10:00 the Ancient Hebrews existed. Written in all of Ancient Afro-Asiatic History. Listening to the rhetoric of the descendants of fallen Angels is the biggest problem the world must overcome

[@maryronan9758]

Ephesians 6:12

[@TleeMN]

Where was the summer Olympics that year?

[@elirien4264]

I think Christopher's real beef isn't so much with "god" but with RELIGION.

[@johnsmith1474]

Both actually. His beef is with the acceptance of and subordination to the supernatural in any form whatsoever, outside as a curiosity in individual minds. Particularly when it leads to that acceptance of the supernatural being put forth as policy or education ie taken as gospel.

[@ToyDirigible]

I'm a believer in God and I agree with Christopher. I see God as at best an incompetent creator and at worst a malevolent overlord

[@AndrewFosterSheff69]

@@ToyDirigible Ironically, God loves you so much, he won't force you to be in heaven with him if you don't want to go. Good luck in the other place!

[@ToyDirigible]

@@AndrewFosterSheff69 Thanks buddy, as long as it gets me away from zealous idiots like you.

[@niccolea2086]

I think he’s pretty much said that.

[@cowafungus8104]

Kids be like ....."Bethesda! I know *that* word"

[@UltraAwesomeSauce12]

Not sure what skyrim has to do with this debate but I'll listen and find out

[@labornurse]

I hear it and think "hospital". I'm a nurse though.

[@darrenleelayton6052]

Oh my word, Chris didn't even show mercy to his family! Love this!

[@truthaboveall7988]

Christopher he hated Chris

[@USERNAMEfieldempty]

Thanks. I'm on about Ch4 of Hitch 22 so I'll probably agree with you in a few weeks time! :-)

[@rekunta]

1:19:51 Why are they calling Christopher professor, and why does he say _”Dr”_ in addressment? I’m a fan of Hitch, but he holds no degree that honors him such title. Where is this coming from?

[@soggybiscotti8425]

"However widely I was syndicated, I wouldn't want it there!" :,( 1:08:53 Bahahaha, you can literally hear his poor little heart break as he gets destroyed by his big brother and slinks back into Christopher's shadow lol. What a legend, and that grin on his face. He knows that stung baaad. RIP to a true legend. What a savage. Little brother is still healing from that word lashing.

[@jakeschlachter3104]

45:20 he seemed truly surprised at the people clapping, lol. “Stop that!”😂

[@Birdieupon]

Christopher could never cope with the tables being turned.

[@antisocialatheist1978]

Well Hitchens opening statement didn't age well lol

[@RustyCohle]

One needs to be very careful when listening to erudite, charismatic scholars, they're often so convinced of their own intelllect, their hubris leads them to get things catastrophically wrong.

[@antisocialatheist1978]

@@RustyCohle I agree

[@jewellburgener2189]

No

[@richardmillward3898]

@@RustyCohle as opposed to listening to utter morons who are wrong about almost everything they say.

[@Gerdbro]

1:28:17 fumbling over himself disgustingly. Didn’t have the humility to admit he sold out to the neocon machine and was absolutely wrong in doing so. Good on Peter for calling him out on his attempt at casuistry.

[@JxJxJxJxJxJxJx]

Der eine ist klug, aufgeklärt und eine Legende und der andere ein Theist. Jede Familie hat ein schwarzes schaf und das ist hier auf jeden Fall der gläubige!

[@allenanderson4911]

CH clearly never read Smedley Buttlers War is a racket.

[@jeffschlarb4965]

Who will write about the Climate Change racket?

[@TheSonicDeviant]

And covid is a racket?

[@jeffschlarb4965]

@@TheSonicDeviant COVID-19 is a virus, that possibly originated in the Wuhan virology lab, located in the city of Wuhan China. Thanks to the "transparent" CCP, we will probably not know for sure, since related data has been scrubbed, and witnesses have been imprisoned..

[@rrpearsall]

Nor has CH listened to President Eisenhower's wisest farewell speech of all POTUS, Warning US of the Devil's bargain we made with the privatization of the Military Industrial Complex.. Kennedy was the last President to try and break that contract with the Devil

[@TheSonicDeviant]

@@jeffschlarb4965 - No, you are very wrong. The official narrative is that COVID-19 is a disease. The virus that causes it has been named SARS-CoV-2. As mentioned, that’s the official narrative if you want to be pedantic. However there are more plausible alternative narratives, however they require you to actually think outside of your safe space and comfort zone.

[@oneoflokis]

Spinoza wasn't an atheist, anyway. He was a pantheists.

[@nevagonnasleeva8898]

Yes that’s what

[@AghoraNath]

Mono pan theist! Spinoza understood the possibility of the reality.

[@ztrinx1]

What is your point?

[@oneoflokis]

"Pantheist", I meant!

[@oneoflokis]

​@@AghoraNath"Mono pantheist". What's that? 🙂

[@Muddyorphan1812]

Love is the law Love Underwill Godswill

[@TheGregcawthorne]

I feel like when Peter pops his cloggs, the headlines are going to mention his brother front and centre. Wouldnt be able to get out of his shadow, even in death.

[@mattyice852]

Did peter ever find out their mothers background?

[@woodytheduke]

I read that it was Peter who informed CH of his jewish background

[@videogreats4442]

Exactly

[@user-vt4hd8hb4v]

The way they went back and forth, Christopher being the smug brother and Peter the easily unsettled one was hillarious 😂this was partly a stage comedy

[@Skullman367]

The thing is this isn’t an act, Peter is actually quick to lose his cool and Christopher was significantly more emotionally stable.

[@mgoswick9250]

A house divided against itself, CANNOT stand. HOPEFULLY THERE NOT LIVING TOGETHER.

[@TrippySuccubus]

I love this, and Hitch, so much that I’ve watched this many times… but that horrific whistling sound Peter makes when he talks, I can’t sit though his parts ever again. Hitch occasionally does it, too, but not nearly as often or as loudly.

[@sosalpha]

Was the drinking and cigarettes worth it? Serious question. Christopher had a spotlight and many publications. Without those terrible habits he may still be alive today. We would be able to know and understand more of his thoughts. Like anyone, he too changed positions on different subjects, Sadly not on America's Wars in the middle east. We have more problems at home to focus on at the moment.

[@copyninja8756]

Smh

[@capitalb5889]

Is this a serious question?

[@TheBundleofkent]

What do you mean by "worth it"?

[@waitaminute2015]

He said in an interview, that those habits made life bearable.

[@jasonwiley798]

It was to hitchens, and that is all that matters.

[@darrinEH]

So how IS Iraq doing today?

[@myyoutube7144]

Well, the population isn't being slaughtered in the hundreds of thousands by Saddam Hussein anymore.

[@DavidmByrd]

When should any sane person tolerate or take seriously any so called adults opinion who thinks Childish Magic Fairy Tale Stories and reality are the same thing?

[@deancyrus1]

51:59 port and starboard don't change when the ship moves 😂

[@TheQuiQuestion]

As a former 'fan' of Christopher, I have to admit that time has proven Peter to be right about everything.

[@edwardmunthali7046]

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[@WhiteUnicorn82]

@@edwardmunthali7046 How do you know that?

[@welshgruff]

Peter claims that God, in particular the Christian God, gives a firm basis for morality but what has been taken as Christian morality has changed radically over time, this would not be the case if it came from a god.

[@Grimdark_messiah]

I don't understand. 'Fan'? Peter is right about nothing here. Are you daft?

[@abc-oq7dt]

​@@welshgruff forget that. Lets have a look at Iraq

[@natepeace1737]

The Iraq thing for Christopher has not aged well. Brilliant as ever on the religion stuff.

[@Nameless-pt6oj]

How so? I’ve come across a few people saying the same thing. Not saying I disagree, I have no idea.

[@HidingFromFate]

@@Nameless-pt6oj I have seen the same take in certain circles as well. I think the gist of it is the people of Iraq were made much much worse off with our interventions then had we not intervened there. Not to mention the incredibly deleterious financial toll on the United States which effects its citizens in ways that the general public has never fully grasped.

[@chequereturned]

The issue at 1:30:00 on is that the smug questioner seems to be assuming that every Christian, including Peter, believes the world is 6000 years old and that evolution is false. Peter Hitchens, like most British Protestants let alone Catholics (even the Pope) is not a Mississippi schoolteacher and has no problem with the earth being billions of years old or dinosaurs etc. Pity Peter didn’t clarify this and left the questioner smugly thinking he’d intellectually cornered him.

[@JohnBraisby-fz4sh]

the twin brothers in paradiso christopher and peter opposite ends of those sales from 1498 conquests from paradiso :-)

[@USERNAMEfieldempty]

Poor old Peter, to have spent your life constantly getting battered by your rather cocky, more-talented brother. There is a sniping, crowing nastiness in Hitch tonight that he doesn't normally have. I wonder if CH chose to jump the fence and support the Iraq War because PH had jumped the fence and chosen to oppose it first.

[@bryangardiner5463]

Look

[@user-kx2jz2go2d]

History will be on the side of PH

[@USERNAMEfieldempty]

@@user-kx2jz2go2d You're right, Tim. And the future will be on the side of CH

[@JohnGeometresMaximos]

Eric was utterly mediocre. He was a decent orator. That's all.

[@TerryUniGeezerPeterson]

Wow, Hitchens Hitch-slapped Hitchens!

[@johnbieber8261]

At first I was annoyed with how much time they spent on the Kipling quote. Who cares, ya know? But the more I thought on it, the more it really annoyed me that Peter misquoted the poem so badly, and rather than abandon the point when he forgot the words, he just makes it up. For whatever reason, that really makes me angry. If the intention of the quote is to move the audience, or carry some profound meaning or inspiration, then to completely misquote Kipling and MAKE IT UP is actually icky. It's a lie. And for Christopher to know the correct quotation is just... *chef's kiss*.

[@abelsolomon7245]

Christopher to his bro - in his veils of tears, made me almost choke on my peanut

[@DarrellVermilion]

Criminally underviewed.

[@dannywlm63]

Very very Interesting to hear both sides from Interesting and intelligent men who probably most likely have access to vastly more information than we do. Not interested in the god thing C wins to easy but middle East was interesting and thought-provoking

[@HerveyShmervy]

Nah Peter is more convincing in the god debate

[@richardmillward3898]

@@HerveyShmervy that’s a bold statement, which you could easily back up by stating at least one of his supposedly superior arguments. So, what will you use to back up your assertion?

[@Snoui]

@@HerveyShmervy Whether or not you agree with his side, he undoubtedly had more convincing and skillful methods of argumention. Sometimes, somebody you agree with will lose a debate even if you retain belief in their points. On the God conversation, Peter was relatively unable to directly address Christopher's points, especially not so to an adept extent. He relied far too heavily on appealing to the premise of God's existence as a given objective rather than debating from a position of null. This is probably the most common mistake of theists in debate as they will only be able to reach those with which they are able to beg the question of God's existence before presenting their idea. Much more potent strategies would involve addressing ways in which the belief and worship in God provide practical benefit. Watching theists who argue from this standpoint seems to provoke a much larger sense of intrigue and thought production, rather than those who quote God as a necessity and try to absurdize conflicting theories with basis in observation and practical effect.

[@peterdaoust404]

Well I think Peter won this one, though he isn’t as charming or clever-clever as Christopher. How can a man of that intelligence, even brilliance, presume to pontificate (you see what I did there) about something that he doesn’t begin to understand. His concept of religion is so cartoonish as to beggar belief. Talk about straw-man arguments… It seems that his only objective was to misuse his undeniable charm to score points to please his acolytes (you see what I did there). Still I love him😄

[@majm4606]

Sorry, was there a moment where he presented strong, logical evidence proving a god exists? I'm hearing him appeal to the _utility_ of religion, but to me what matters is _truth._

[@rrpearsall]

We cannot deny everything is made of energy and we are conscious whether this is a mathematical matrix simulation or a series of interactions.. There is some type of organ

[@MarshallLore]

you're some type of organ

[@J_Ambrus_Films]

Imagine sitting at that dinner table as a kid 😀