Holy Post Podcast Episode 518: Christian Nationalism Round-Up & Disability Justice with Amy Kenny

[@andrewwhittaker2908]

I'm "disabled" mentally with OCD and anxiety, and living with it for my entire life I have learned that it's a gift and tool granted to me from God to keep me close to him and keep my ego in check. It keeps me empathetic and humble to others and the cross they may bear unseen. Without it I would suffer from extreme temptations. It keeps me grounded and close with God.

[@joylox]

The last part made me think of a thing my church did well. We've had a few church planning meetings, where anyone was welcome to attend, and voice their thoughts on church things. We've changed a few things based on accessibility. The ramp was put in over 10 years ago, but a lot was done more recently based on people voicing their needs. Like changing the lights in our fellowship hall to ones that don't cause migraines, adding more speakers and mics to improve hearing for those who are hard of hearing (we previously used a radio system where someone could have a private headset and turn it up more, but not everyone used mics), changing the order of service to be more ADHD friendly, and we even changed our communion to be gluten free since we found out a number of members including myself can't have wheat used traditionally in bread/crackers. It was so good to have a place where people could discuss their needs and practical solutions. I think we should schedule those more often, not just when a new pastor arrives.

[@luisbartolomey3988]

Thank You Christian, For making the connection with the 80’s. Yes we must lament. I think that this slippery slope the church is going down has been in work for the last 40 years. People of that time see this moment in history as a fulfillment of that era.

[@dwp6471]

I cannot understand how "Christians" who are supposed to be about loving your neighbor, compassion, turning the other cheek, the meek will inherit the earth, etc... Has become a group of people defined by hate, anger, violence, racism, etc...

[@virtualpilgrim8645]

Nationalism is not hatred. There is no such thing as racism. Don't adopt the language of your oppressors.

[@Faithdude95]

"You know she doesn't mean the black church." 🤣

[@andrewjohnson8232]

Learned so much from listening to this beautiful sister, Amy. Thank you. You always know when you have encountered faith, because you learn. Hearing the Gospel through the testimony of faith, is the only true way to understand its living reality. There's very little to learn from men in shiny suits strutting around on stages and shouting into mikes from the top of their egos.

[@kneeservice]

Thank you all for cutting through the mess and helping keep people accountable to Jesus and the Gospels.

[@SandyKH]

Truly great program. Reagan and Trump have the same strategy but different personality. Oh, how I repent of the mistakes of my past. Kaitlyn's interview was so great... mostly because of the way they used Scriptures to prove their points!

[@dasujudimijo]

Christian was spot on today! Her insights and comments had me nodding continuously. We've lost the beauty and power of the gospel in the desire for power and prosperity.

[@trishakoury-stoops2372]

Real Christian’s need to stop being silent and allow these people to use Jesus.. silence is just as sinful as being apart of these cults

[@MichaelJohnson-vi6eh]

When Reagan came in he was following a decade of Vietnam, Watergate, Stagflation, Israeli/Palestinian war, Iran hostages, crime, feminism taking hold. He had A LOT to get people upset about. People wanted something to be hopeful and patriotic about. I don't think that MAGA/Christian Nationalism is that kind of thing. I dont get the idea that Afghanistan was like Vietnam in their eyes. Great response about which is more important winning the war or solving problems, comforting and teaching and loving.

[@JustinGehman]

Not mentioned in discussion, but the "USA, USA, USA" chant at the end of Flashpoint's 'Watchmans Decree' felt very revealing. Country is the end. God is just the means. 😭

[@pressia07]

This might be strange reference to say but when phil was stating about the group declaration we decree …. I couldnt help but think of the office episode when michael scott yells to to the rest of the group i declare bankruptcy!! I feel like this group is doing that in a sense

[@DJMcNutty]

It's shocking and yet somewhat refreshing to see Skye and Christian unfamiliar with the NAR, 7 Mountains, and their major voices. That was like last 14 years of my life and still commands the majority of my facebook interactions. Way too familiar with every topic this episode.

[@TheGretsch6120]

This doesn't surprise me. It's all over the place. It's part of the "privilege" they have to be unaware. We even talked about being in the "Christian Ghetto" when I was inside the walls. There was even a documentary made called "American Crusade". I'm afraid too many Christians that should know what goes on in their "faith" are ignorant. Maybe they should get out of their bubbles and talk to secular folks who study this and are the target of it. Pastors are ignorant and now they're scared because they are ignorant of their own people.

[@amandaparler2080]

I've been a part of churches like this my entire life and I don't know what to do. I know that there is truth in many of the things they teach and believe but at the same time, I have had some many questions and concerns in the last ten years but I have no idea where to go. I don't know how to, nor do I really want to, walk away from every spiritual leader I have ever had.

[@asia9116]

I wouldn’t necessarily say Pentecostals and Charismatics are okay with Sean making that kind of money for “prosperity” reasons. There’s always been a prosperity stream in Pentecostal theology, but at its root it’s always to promote and move the ministry of God. Though I find it horrific that Sean has made that much money as a Pentecostal myself, I can see other charismatics justifying this money by saying “look how much he made to keep spreading the gospel!” Ugh. I am NOT a fan of mister holy roller, online troller.

[@Theinternalrewrite]

The difficulty for white evangelicals in becoming accessible for people with disabilities is it starts a complicated process of being inclusive, of accepting lived experiences from outside their own, using funds to help others who can't help themselves or pay it back, etc. These are often left wing ideals and a right wing church struggles to adopt them without feeling they are somehow betraying all other values. Yet if they can do this it would be demonstrative evangelism to the people who would want to see a caring, nurturing and inviting church.

[@andrewzook8648]

You're nailing it... until white evangelicals give up some of their 'values' they're stuck...imo. (not Biblical values btw... but all coming from other principalities and powers...above the puppet stage... things they thing are 'common sense' but in reality distort and mislead grievously...)

[@hapennysparrow]

God forbid a social safety net enter the Church's mindset, either for disabled folks or single Moms, or the poor. The Evangelical Right has no patience for that. Rugged individualism and all that. Problem is, that ideology is not found in either Old or New Testament theology.The Beatitudes sums it all up beautifully. That is God's heart.

[@Theinternalrewrite]

@@hapennysparrow Sometimes rebuking and correction is necessary in the church and members may be asked to leave if their behaviour may harm others but some churches go too far and shame people or make harsh judgments about the wrong things. I cannot always tell which people are those who are truly love God but are being led astray and those who will say "Lord, Lord," but will be unknown to Jesus. And so I try to forgive them all, pray the Holy Spirit brings them revelation and just live as an example as best I can. Equally I pray forgiveness if I'm making mistakes, overly judging others or being too accepting of sin within the church. May God help us all to live according to his will.

[@Ericviking2019]

You mean they would have to live the gospels?

[@brucee8332]

Art Linkletter hosted "Kids say the darndest things" as part of his radio, and then television show in the '50's and early '60's, "PEOPLE ARE FUNNY." (You kids are SO YOUNG!)

[@luisbartolomey3988]

23:40 how is all these declaration different from what other non Christian people believe about speaking things into the universe so that it can manifest in the physical world. Isn’t that New Age or something?? Lord please give us discernment!!!!!

[@emmarichardson965]

I got a kick when Skye called the NAR "prophets for profit". My mom has been calling them that for years, so I was hoping you would get there.

[@buzzdixon8521]

As one Christian to another, listening to you talk about Christian Nationalism is like listening to the stewards debating how the deck chairs should be arranged while the Titanic's deck tilts at a 45-degree angle

[@ashert4918]

Skye has a great point about the most extreme people getting the most media attention, but I think the advice to just ignore it is perhaps coming from a place of privilege. Christian nationalism, the ‘culture war’ rhetoric, etc have permeated the politics of a lot of seemingly moderate evangelicals and are very actively influencing policy at the moment. ‘Just ignore it’ isn’t going to work if you’re, say, a young trans person or a woman needing an abortion in the South. Of course, it’s harder to see how much these ideas have infiltrated both the government and the church if you’re not one of the ‘others’ these people hate, so it’s great to see Amy here bringing some perspective. I’d love to keep seeing more guests of various backgrounds.

[@brucee8332]

LAMENTATIONS: "I don't much like the wormwood and the gall...BUT STILL I HAVE THIS HOPE: THE STEADFAST LOVE OF GOD NEVER ENDS! NEW EVERY MORNING ARE HIS MERCIES...GREAT IS THY FAITHFULNESS!"

[@onegirlarmy4401]

Book recommendations- Jesus and John Wayne and Power Worshippers

[@hapennysparrow]

Also Anne, Nelson's The Shadow Network. All excellent and necessary reading.

[@theomiu9944]

Did you happen to catch episode 419? They interview the author of Jesus and John Wayne Kristin Kobes Du Mez.

[@hapennysparrow]

Theo: Thank you for referencing that episode. I went to Barnes and Nobles the next day and bought the book. So well written, helped me put the last pieces to the puzzle in place. Since then, I listened to a podcast by Al Frankin

[@hapennysparrow]

Al Feanken who interviewed another writer on the same subject. Her name is Anne Nelson and her book on the same themes is titled Shadow Network. It is excellent and well researched. And sickening, to be honest. I have also read Katherine Stewart's The Power Worshippers. So grateful for the exposes. Scary times. Keeping my eyes on Jesus.

[@carlad.prince9760]

As an disabled person. I say hear, hear.

[@ChanningChea]

There’s a lot of theological rethinking the church needs to do when it comes to dealing with disabled people. That is a very good thing to have a conversation about, and this was a great guest to start the conversation. However… whoa. Let us not pretend for a second that Jesus’ resurrected body was disabled in the least. He MAY have been treated us such, and he had a scarred body… But scars are not a disability.

[@kenthardy6078]

Great discussion AGAIN on Christian Nationalism and how dangerous it is to the Church. Both Old Testament and end-times warfare imagery and language are incompatible with the new-covenant mandate of Jesus. A mandate given directly to the Church. A mandate to love, make disciples, and lay down our lives in the process if necessary. Conquer and conflict language slows us down, divides us up, and confuses those standing on the outside peering in.

[@zippy_zap9525]

I really liked Christian's comparison to the religious political views of Jesus' time.

[@claudehaynes6419]

I would encourage consideration of the Jefferson Bible. The founding fathers didn't create a Christian nation, but they did expect we would be a moral one. As a classical exercise in moral philosophy, Jefferson took the words of Jesus from the gospels and attempted to put them in chronological order. He focused solely on the words of Jesus: excluding descriptive text, the nativity, Passion and miracles. Both Judaism and Islam honor Jesus as a prophet, and even atheists respect the moral philosophy found in Jesus's words. The Jefferson Bible was given to freshmen members of Congress into the 1930's. Recommitting to love for our neighbors, seeking truth, justice, and compassion may be a path to binding up the wounds we now seem only to pour salt into.

[@hapennysparrow]

Except, Jefferson thought it morally acceptable to rape the female slaves he "owned " It was a means of producing more slaves without the cost and inconvenience of purchasing additional slaves.

[@claudehaynes6419]

@@hapennysparrow I'm not sure he saw it as morally acceptable, but it was socially tolerated. Jefferson is a perfect example of human frailty and cognitive dissonance.

[@diamantedante]

Judaism definitely does not honor Christ. Islam does, and quite reverently so, but Judaism is blasphemous in its treatment of the person of Jesus of Nazareth.

[@TheoFongDraw]

Please let me know if I'm missing Amy's point, but how is Jesus' resurrected body disabled? Isn't it the most abled body a human has ever had? I think having wounds or scars doesn't make one disabled.

[@StevenWaling]

I would say that having holes in your feet and hands, and a possibly suppurating wound in your side, would be quite disabling. Also, many people with wounds continue to have pain throughout their lives. Having nails hammered into you is going to be very painful.

[@Cinnamonbuns13]

It doesn't make sense because it's incoherent. It's a seriously unfaithful reading of the text.

[@mazza8408]

@@StevenWaling yes you are right to a certain extent but I think your stretching it to fit a certain narrative scripture says he had the scars but it doesn't say he had the pain or that it affected him in a disability type way. Thomas full on put his fingers through them holes. Jesus being resurrected with scares is beautiful and I understand that as a disabled Christian she will say that about Jesus body and we as a church need to have this conversation. However we need to avoid the temptations of trying to make scripture fit it in a certain narrative we want it to fit it in. Joni Eareckson Tada life and ministry has really helped me in this area.

[@luisbartolomey3988]

42:08 We’ve become like Pharisees . That’s exactly it! Reminds me of Luke 18:8 just before Jesus goes into the parable of the Pharisee and The Tax collector.

[@charlesgoodman2514]

I see racism, white grievance cultural wars is a way to get rich in America. Far to many people are willing to do it for the money and capitalize on divisons in our society. This stuff racial divisions come straight out the church. Thanks for exposing, standing up.

[@complexmindsimpleman6642]

Skye, they may not be the majority but they are the most violent. Only the survivors get to wait for the blaze to burn out. The rest...perish

[@andythompson7477]

What is the strange background audio (or secondary audio) during the final moments of the first segment?

[@asia9116]

We need another Pentecostal scholar on the show!! Get Leah Payne!!!

[@updownjester]

The idea that this nationalism is a small blip and can be dismissed is how it got as big as it did. If it’s so small, why do I only have about five friends who don’t believe it’s Godly?

[@promomail1768]

They are in congress. More recently won GOP general elections in significant numbers. They are growing in power and influence. They are intolerant, hate anyone is different from them to the point of violence. This is not a small blip.

[@luisbartolomey3988]

47:47 The wackiness exist because there are enough people who might not agree with all of it but just enough to not speak out against it.

[@Theinternalrewrite]

You don't want a flashpoint in a GAS arena. Sounds inflammatory.

[@danielunderwood3198]

I don’t know could be a blast

[@madierose]

I was so excited to listen to this episode! I went deep down the rabbit hole of NAR in early 2020 (just out of curiosity) and discovered this entire sub-culture of largely charismatic Christians and people like Lance Wallnau. I watched Dutch Sheets emerge out of nowhere in the summer of 2020, with a following that grew from ~10,000 to now almost 300,000 - and he was fascinating to watch in the period of time between the election and the insurrection (he's actually one of the more dangerous ones IMO). I can't wait to see his next IRS 990 submission - he has struck gold! I watched Sean Feucht come onto the scene with his COVID-defying open-air concerts and then join in with Clay Clark's Reawaken America Tour. Maybe Skye is right and this group can be ignored/dismissed - if there are around a half-million passionate "believers", how many more albeit less passionate supporters of this type of thinking are out there? Too few to make an impact? I don't know. Now I'm watching the more outlandish of them get booted off of KZbin and setting up camp on Rumble.

[@luisbartolomey3988]

Great episode!!!!!

[@minaguta4147]

I sincerely hope Skye is correct about the vast majority of Christians and the spotlight on the Christian Nationalists. It certainly doesn't feel that way far too often.

[@hapennysparrow]

The show" Kids Say the Darnest Things." Wsa hosted by Art Linkletter, not Bill Cosby. Just to clarify.

[@stephenhicks6054]

The 90's version was hosted by Cosby, I believe.

[@hapennysparrow]

To Steven Hicks: Thanks for that. I did not own a television in 1990's. I guess my comment dates me. I am 73 years old. Ha ha.

[@midnightexpress726]

( Canadian here) I don’t mean to be rude, but my goodness, there are a lot of well meaning yet very misguided Christians in the American Evangelical Church. Sad.

[@kamalastromwall9275]

Excellent episode. I just watched Skye's message at TC, FANTASTIC!!! Now if I could just get my husband to watch out with me.

[@andrewzook8648]

The 7mt pledge at the "GAS"... wow are those poor people going to be shocked someday... people like that can make me angry, but really in the end I'm really sad for them. God's going to hear that pledge... and set Himself against their agenda. They will NEVER EVER fully get what they proclaim is their right to have. It's just never going to happen because their pledge/claim whatever it is, is idolatry. And even if they get some measure of it (Reich levels?) it will crumble because the world will rise up against it (with God's help!) and they and it will be destroyed... I can't imagine what will be going through them at that moment... they'll have to repent or turn on God with wrath for not doing what they thought He should do for them...

[@alb5338]

That orange wall needs a splash of green....

[@kaycegoen8435]

I LOVE the Holy Post - totally changed my life and opened my eyes... and maybe we should move on from the Christian Nationalism talks. There have been soooo many episodes that talk about that and I think we're all on the same page with that one. Let's talk more about other things in the culture and the church. That way there might be SOME episodes I can send my strongly conservative family. lol! Love you guys!!

[@ChanningChea]

I love those talks, but I agree with you. I think since they consider themselves a part of the White Evangelical church the problems from there come up more often than others. But different topics would be nice as well.

[@hapennysparrow]

It has to be discussed often, because it is pervasive, and is spreading like a cancer, and imported via missionary work around the globe. We need to keep shouting the warning because it is pernicious.

[@PeanutGallery89]

This is so disturbing!

[@hapennysparrow]

It is scary because it follows a fascist playbook. Terrifying really.

[@updownjester]

My question is, WHY DID IT TAKE YOU SO VERY VERY LONG TO SEE THIS DECEPTION? To the church’s shame, I saw this foolishness as a 19 year old in the early seventies. Most of the unbelievers saw this then also. Who is blind but my servant?

[@chuckthompson5724]

If you want to know more about the NAR and the Seven Mountain movement check out Remnant Radio. Joshua Lewis and company have multiple shows on the topic.

[@brucee8332]

He needs 3 houses for: plural wives? A meth house? Marijuana grow boxes? (Just a few ideas...)

[@Ericviking2019]

Can we tax these frauds?

[@cecilwinthorp4038]

The word protest did not derive from the word protestant

[@ronjones9116]

Actually, the word “Protestant” did not derive from the modern meaning of “protest”. Instead, at that time what it meant was that the “Protestants” were “pro”, or “for” or “in favor of” TESTING doctrine… by verifying whether the Bible actually supported the idea. At that time people were expected to just accept whatever the Catholic church SAID was true doctrine. People had not been in the habit of actually reading the Bible to check the church’s word. Individuals actually studying the Bible was a new idea.

[@jamesfraser9099]

interesting, ive never heard that origin before but heard the protest one quite a bit. Do you have any sources where you read this?

[@ronjones9116]

@@jamesfraser9099 Start by looking up “Protestantism” on Wikipedia. The first page or so discusses this meaning. But I admit, that original meaning soon got lost/absorbed by the broader used meaning of “ protest”.

[@jamesfraser9099]

@@ronjones9116 on that page it says "Six princes of the Holy Roman Empire and rulers of fourteen Imperial Free Cities, who issued a protest (or dissent) against the edict of the Diet of Speyer (1529), were the first individuals to be called Protestants" which seems to be the concessious understanding. Although clearly it was not anyone protesting church and state which is what I think skye said.

[@DJMcNutty]

PARTIALLY TRUE/PARTIALLY FALSE: It is partially correct to say it doesn't derive from the "modern meaning" if by modern you mean to say the number 1 ranked dictionary entry. But number 2 in New Oxford dictionary for protest is "a written declaration." Also the etymology is misleading: Pro- meaning "in favor of" is a much more modern interpretation than how it would be used in the 16th century. Pro (brought forward) + Test (strong witness) = To bring forth a strong witness/testimony (which can be either for or against a subject). In this case, it was the pope, religious practices, and doctrines in the Roman Catholic Church on the receiving end and if you read these original statements, you'll see they are very much in the "against" column.

[@timothymulholland7905]

Art Linkletter first hosted Kids Say the Darnedest Things, 1952-70. Y’all weren’t born yet.

[@virginiacrosby4160]

Art Linkletter did the kids show

[@js1423]

Feucht is German and means “moist”!

[@luisbartolomey3988]

46:34 unfortunately Christian, to many ask with the intent to find a whole in the argument and win. If only they had a genuine desire to understand, that would work.

[@salimapeacejoy]

I agree with Christian and it is sad.

[@faithtotushek6831]

Re seven mountain decrees. They believe in speaking things into existence. By making decrees they believe that their statements are the beginning of how they come into being. Based on genesis when God spoke and things came into being. It’s word of faith teaching. I don’t agree. Their prophets also must be validated by other prophets who are part of the school of prophets. Some from the Kansas City prophets. Again. I don’t validate these things.

[@perronmiller1395]

Wait, so is anyone gonna talk about BLM's mansions then? No? Ok....guess we only like to talk about our hot topics

[@UpNorthica]

"Roundup." Roundup?

[@sharonnissley3254]

The coverage on Sean Feucht sounded like I was listening to an opinion piece from Fox News or CNN. Typically I can rely on you guys to be level headed. But this episode you tore down a proclaimed Christian and didn't even provide an opposing view or let the guy defend himself. Bring him on the show. Now that would be an interesting podcast. Honestly, you gave me a look into your hearts. They seem cynical. I thought your team was above this type of "celebrity" bashing.

[@Syed_12]

( Will Christians And Jews and "OTHER" non-Muslims go to Heaven? ) Quran 2:62 '' Those who believe (in the Quran) and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures) and the Christians and the Sabians->ANYAllah< Is The Protector Of Monasteries, Churches, Synagogues And The Mosques ) Quran 22:40 [They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, " Our Lord is God " And were it not that God checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of God is much mentioned. And God will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, God is Powerful and Exalted in Might. Note: Why did Allah protected Churches and Synagogues if they worship false Allah ? ( Why Are There So Many Different Religions In The World ? ) Quran 5 48 ''...... If God wanted He could have made all of you a single nation.( ie single religion ) But He willed otherwise in order to test you in what He has given you (ie Scriptures) therefore try to excel one another in good deeds. Ultimately you all shall return to God then He will show you the truth of those matters in which you '' >DISPUTE verb < not noun like other religions Islam mean "submission" to God ( The above verse saying is that God will not accept a religion from the >MUSLIM< and the Non-Muslims but total "submission" to God ) Question: How Can Muslim And the Non-Muslim "submit" to the God? Answer: Be kind to other human beings and Do not lie, Do not steal, Do not cheat, Do not hurt others, Do not be prideful and Do the charity work. Note: If you obeyed all the ABOVE Allah-God's moral laws "YOU" submitted to God.( ie Islam mean "submission" to God ) The only people who will enter Paradise those who '' Submitted to God '' ( ie by Good Deeds ) God does NOT accept your religion of birth but only ''Your Total'' Submission to Him. ( God Allows Interfaith Marriages And Eat Food From the Christian And Jew And Vice Versa ) Quran 5:5 ''This day [all] good foods have been made lawful, and the food of those who were given the Scripture (ie Christian and Jew) is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. And lawful in marriage are chaste women from among the believers (ie Muslim ) and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture (ie Christian and Jew) before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking [secret] lovers. And whoever denies the faith - his work has become worthless and he in the Hereafter will be among the losers.'' Note: > Only < Islam allows interfaith marriages (>14 hundredsSame God< but They are >ALL Corrupt< more or less, some more than others from their original foundational teaching. The older religion are MORE corrupted than newer religion. Question to Muslim and Christian: Does God / Allah only answer your pray ? And God / Allah does not answer non Muslim / non Christian pray? Did Allah '' Canceled '' all other religions Judaism and Christianity? Quran 5:48 '' And We have revealed to you [O Muhammad] the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture ( ie New and old Testament ) and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. >>>TO EACH OF YOU WE PRESCRIBED A LAW AND A METHODone nation>differ qualified < for to enter Paradise ) On the day of judgement God will ''NOT'' judge humanity bases on Sunni Muslim sect VS Shia Muslim sect ''NOR'' by Muslim VS non-Muslim >but< Doer of Goods VS Doer of Evils. '' YOUR " birth in the Muslim's family is NOT a > qualification < for to enter the Paradise. '' YOUR " religion / sect / foot long beard is NOT a > qualification < for to enter the Paradise. The > qualification < to enter Paradise is > Faith in God and Good Work

[@Str20ng]

About disability, like Amy, I also want to respond very lovingly, BUT respond strongly specifically about how mistaken it is to twist scripture as she has done, to justify a view of disability that in my view is not redemptive. Worse, it comes close to a heretical interpretation of scripture to say that Jesus rose again in a disabled body. Really? The same scripture says in 1 Corinthians 15:42-43, that the human body at death is “sown in weakness”, but at resurrection is “raised in power” among other redemptive attributes. Similarly Philippians 3:21 teaches us that when Christ returns from heaven, he “will [not only] transform, [but completely refashion] our earthly bodies so that they will be like His glorious resurrected body” (Amplified Bible version). According to the witness of scripture, the body in which Jesus was resurrected was strong, powerful and glorious, NOT disabled. One reason our Lord resurrected with his scars was to remove any doubt that it was the same Jesus who was crucified that rose again from the dead. Even with his scars, there are narratives in existence today that spread the diabolical lie that the real body of Jesus was stolen away by his disciples and a “body double” substituted instead. On a spiritual level, Jesus retained his wounds, which by the way were no longer dripping with blood but were now healed, evidenced by Jesus asking his disciples to examine the scars and touch them. The lesson in that for us is that when your scars are truly healed, you no longer have any shame about them and are completely comfortable in exposing them for others to see, examine and touch. You are free from the pain of wounds when those wounds are truly healed. So rather than exhibits of disability, the resurrected wounds of Jesus are living proclamations of his healing, which is precious and glorious, never again to be inflicted by human hands. So I lovingly submit that Amy is awfully wrong about her interpretations of these scriptures. I agree that a radical change in how churches relate to their members who live with disability is needed. Those dear brothers and sisters should be treated with dignity and honour. However we cannot build that change on the basis of a twisted and frankly humanistic (if not evil) theology, which claims that our Lord Jesus was himself disabled in his resurrected body.

[@virtualpilgrim8645]

Saying "we live in a pluralistic society" is not a reason to deny that white Christians should not have an interest in shaping society in their interests. You guys obviously don't know what a nation is. The New Testaments Greek word for "nation" is Έθνος which means ethnos and race. Look it up in Strong's Concordance. The Latin word for nation is "gens" & "natio" which means tribe, people, RACE, stock. The last thing I would want is for ignorant Christians like you to decide policies governing my nation. John Jay was a true Christian leader who understood what America is. Hint: it's not pluralistic and never can be. "Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people - a people descended from the SAME ancestors, speaking the SAME language, professing the SAME religion, attached to the SAME principles of government, very SIMILAR in their manners and customs..." ~ John Jay, First Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court, 1787