Honored Matres: The Rise of the Dominatrix Sisterhood | Dune Lore Explained

[@NerdCookies]

Thank you for watching this video! If you enjoy my content, please consider supporting me on Patreon: www.patreon.com/nerdcookies

[@Stitchman3875]

I remember the Honored Matres we so superior to the Bene Gesserit militarily they were called inhuman by the BG. The HM decentralized their nervous system to the point where their bodies can respond to a threat before they even know it's happening. The HM were definitely stronger and faster. But the BG were more tactical. Thanks for uploading. Hope to see more videos on the Honored Matres.

[@NewsRedial]

This is, ironically, quite prescient of Herbert. Jordan Peterson has recently been talking about how aspects of the nervous system is autonomous and how not every physical reaction we have is instigated from the brain.

[@knyx9913]

@@NewsRedial it’s a pretty common thing. Nerves attached to our spines can reactivate automatically to certain stimuli that doesn’t require brain power. Some animals can do it better than humans not really that impressive

[@NewsRedial]

@@knyx9913 If you think 'anything' about animal or human physiology is 'not really that impressive' then you lack an inner light. Either that, or you mistakenly confuse something being 'rare' with being impressive and common with unimpressive.

[@gwell2118]

@@NewsRedialno it’s just not that impressive. Like you and others get a tiny insight into how something works and take it as more than it is. Also if that’s how Peterson described it he very much oversimplified it lol

[@NewsRedial]

@@gwell2118 You need to get a grasp of reductionism. Something is not impressive because it's on a grand scale. A thing an be understood to be impressive even if all you have is a thin slice of understanding of something. A single cell organism is a miracle of nature. But you wanted to act intellectually superior and instead revealed a shallow mind. Everything in nature and how it works is impressive. Everything. That you thing any one thing is not shows just how dull your ability to appreciate natures miracles is.

[@ugoeze7360]

“The Honored Matres eyes turn orange when enraged” _Uncle Palpatine’s curiosity has been caught_

[@theresag.1000]

I think the most compelling thing about the Honored Matres is the fact that they use anger as the basis for their power. It speaks to the true nature of anger.

[@hucklebuck411]

Thank you for another detailed explanation of one aspect of Frank Herbert's rich Dune universe. Here are a couple of other details concerning the Honored Matres. The Honored Matres were so hated by their enemy, the Ones of Many Faces (possibly descended from the Bene Tleilax Face Dancers?), that they created a vicious hybrid human/animal mix , Futars, to specifically hunt and kill Honored Matres. However, the Honored Matres were able to capture and control some of these creatures, keeping them as pets. The Ones of Many Faces also developed "the "weapon" a device so powerful that it could sterilize entire planets. In fleeing their enemy, the Honored Matres were able to steal a limited number of these weapons to use in their attempted conquest of the Old Empire.

[@Jared_Wignall]

Dune and dominatrix. I didn’t expect to see such a video made like this, but it’s defiantly interesting all the same. Great work Elaine, have a great rest of your week!

[@NewsRedial]

The Honored Matres were a fascinating late addition to Herbert's Dune universe. They were the equivalent of 12the century Mongol hoards in their utter brutality and the way the Mongols were burn entire cities to death for resisting conquest. The HM even fried the entire planet of Dune (Rakis). A way in which they were the polar opposites to the Bene Gesserit is that the BG, for all their faults and ruthlessness, were ultimately motivated by empathy for human kind and a desire to craft a super being that could guide humanity to a more enlightened, less cruel existence. Where the BG lacked any trace of empathy; even for their own kind. I was horrified to read of how they harvest the drug they rely on. That they lock a person (I think males only) into a machine that just tortured them forever so their brain produces a certain drug that is syphoned off. Just imagine the worst pain you have or could possible experience, then imagine being kept in that stay of abject agony for months and years and possibly decades with no end. All the while, the HM staff going about their business around you with zero empathy for what you are going through. My memory may have been influenced by the non cannon sequels to the six Dune books written by Frank Herbert, but I got the impression that the Honored Matres were fleeing Omnius and the machine empire.

[@stevedubya291]

The HM probably lost their empathy while previously being used as Tleilaxian Axolotl Tanks.

[@adamsinger123]

There are no nice people in FH’s universe.

[@thomriley1036]

I would love some sort of deep dive into the history of the Lilith parable in the Monomyth in pop culture. Every franchise seems to do the thing where there the idyllic kingdom/faction/race has a dark secret in their past and it comes back in the form of a race of seductive matriarchal poisoners. Vulcans have Romulans, D&D elves have the Drow, Sword of Truth had the Mord-Sith, and the Bene Gesserit had Honored Matres.

[@maxmercer1931]

Imagine how cool Frank Herbert's book 7 would have been. If he had lived it might have been published 1988 - 1996 time window.

[@thomriley1036]

If we pay attention to the real life events going on around the time of the writing of these latter books; Frank Herbert was growing older, had just watched a Dune movie launch only one year after Return of the Jedi, lost his wife and inspiration for many of these characters only to began the dying process from pancreatic cancer himself. There's such a palpable sense of loss in Heretics and Chapterhouse, and the symbology of the ticking clock and the stranger with the axe hit harder when viewed through that lens.

[@raydavison4288]

​@@thomriley1036: Herbert was certainly on the decline, and the last two volumes suffered as a result.

[@genmaicha.lapsang]

I don't know about that. I've always been in the school of fans that views the 6th book as the final one. Quinn from Quinn's ideas did a podcast last year where he converted to this line of thinking and his views articulated the reasons why better than I could here. I suggest people try to check it out.

[@raydavison4288]

@@genmaicha.lapsang: When in doubt, go with Quinn. 👍

[@tuckernutter]

DANIEL AND MARTY ARE FACE DANCERS BRIAN HERBERT LIED

[@calolson9572]

I found them terrifying when I first read about them... Talk about a devastating, twisted force!

[@dermagnus8482]

Back in the day I just thought: Not more evil females. It was annoying.

[@yecnay25]

I wish we had gotten a conclusion to the series. The Thinking Machines returning just as Leto predicted and hopefully his preparations made Mankind able to survive. As for the Matres I have some hope them being joined together with the Gesserit at the end will create a force able to keep the machines at bay, but the Matres were driven out by them once already. Not to mention Marty and the Sapient Face Dancers.

[@Danger_Noodle_Pliskin]

My thought is whether Mother Superor Odrade's plan to blend the Matre's and the Sisterhood would work, long term. After all absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible.

[@CantankerousDave]

I always preferred Terry Pratchett’s take on that quote over the original.

[@mikeroman5208]

The H-Ms were corrupted because they didn't have access to Other Memory. Having the sum-knowledge and experience of all humans that ever lived (although limited to the female side) tends to put a lot of things into perspective.

[@largol33t1]

Something tells me it wouldn't have worked. Eventually, there would be a power struggle between the two and it would split apart, no matter how long it lasted...

[@Danger_Noodle_Pliskin]

@@largol33t1 Hard to say, the Sisterhood had been playing the long game for a long time from behind the throne in the Imperium.

[@theAverageJoe25]

You know the part about the Honored Matres using a different chemical than spice reminded me of something I’ve wondered about for a while. Why didn’t anyone ever try to create synthetic spice? It would reduce the reliance on Dune and the subjugation of it’s people

[@billthevillageidiot4069]

the Bene Tleilax did , and succeeded later in the dune series of books after Leto's II death

[@WickedCool23]

It was established early on, that Spice is notoriously difficult to synthesize (the Bene Tleilax only succeeded after 5,000 years of trying), and the worms could only survive in the extreme desert conditions of Arrakis Added to that, you had God-Emperor Leto who would have known what you were attempting and thwarted you

[@magetaaaaaa]

@@WickedCool23 Didn't they attempt to take a worm off planet in secret in one of the later books? Not sure if they ever succeeded.

[@danelamoreaux4166]

Cookies in the morning,breakfast of champions. Awesome video to you and your team.

[@arcane3548]

As i red the chapterhouse book it sounds the HM using something similar to ultra instinct. Moving quick like a vampire, causing a human body to explode like a bursting water melon with only one devastating kick. It must be the ultimate femdom fantasy being in the chapterhouse castle with hundreds of HM woman as the only one male around. I felt sorry for Duncan because of loosing Murbella. The strongest woman in the Dune saga. At the end she became to dangerous for him.

[@beargiles4062]

There were plenty of men around. They just didn't have jobs that were interesting to the story, with the notable exception of Miles Teg and his aide. Duncan was a weird case since he had to remain on the no-ship, unlike literally every other person on Chapterhouse, and he had unknown skills that the BG couldn't just ignore.

[@gwell2118]

Pretty much. It’s not really subtle Herbert included a not so subtle nun fetish into the story. I mean come on, they come off like a bad porno at times lol

[@popeye807]

I just wish Frank Herbert would have given us more of its history such as how they were actually formed.

[@catinore3837]

Thank you for covering this topic with this informative video. My Dune lore always felt most deficient in this area. You have definitely piqued my curiosity in regard to these weirdos. Maybe it’s time I finally got around to finishing Chapterhouse…

[@kingcr1mz0n71]

I'm curious now, the BG are more disciplined than the HM. Their control over the voice and within (such as when you mentioned the access to gene memory and internal chemistry) maybe why the BG was able to last so long. There is the first few scenes with Paul and Reverand Mother, where Paul learnd that the mind is the true weapon of the BG. The contrast of the two is a familiar one for me. One listens to the heart one to the brain. Passion and anger make the fire burn hotter, but twice as fast.

[@oroboros88]

The HM had no real goals aside from putting distance between them and the machines, they destroyed everything in their path that stood up to them. Many of the bg can see that the HM would inevitably burn themselves out and fall apart from within, but didnt the option of waiting for that due to kralizec

[@Agamon]

Thanks for the new video! Always wonderful.

[@peterbellini6102]

Good overview NC. The additional context of Miles Teg, the Old Bashar, would've been appropriate here. He became the secret weapon the BG used to destroy the Honored Matres.

[@Kuatoftlalax]

I just finished Sandworms of Dune yesterday. At least now I understand why they’re so terrifying… excellent video thank you

[@smarouchoc7300]

I finished the last Frank Herbet dune book at 6am - at 11am, my clock radio went off, and the news was playing saying the Frank Herbert had died of cancer.... I did not like the choices his son made for the Honored Matre's enemy. Also, love the channel, really love the sign off 😁

[@briancaldwell871]

We need a Futar video! They are an interesting glimpse at the scattering. Something that the HMs feared but were harmless without their masters. They never made sense but I was always fascinated by them.

[@rayjinflo]

I remember them putting Teg and Odrade through hell, even though it's been awhile since I read the last two. As for Duncan, if you know, you know. The Tleilaxu had a lot of surprises for that version

[@nfboogaard]

Thanks Elaine for making my day a little nerdy 👽💜😄

[@uglybob7505]

Knew NOTHING of the Honoured Matres !!! Looks like Ive got some homework to do. Thanks for the video, appreciated as always 🙂

[@kdog3908]

They're certainly a very interesting 'bad guy' in the later novels.

[@Concreteowl]

George Lucas pinched so much of the Night Sisters and Sith from them.

[@chewface]

Is still disturbs me how the Honored Matres could even use their magical jiner powers to tame a eunuch in the books. [Shudders]

[@renuvatio9986]

Wow awesome but it makes me wonder in the star wars universe there was the Jedi who were not all but were not pleased in there order so they left and formed the Sith AKA darkside it to me seems that Lucas utilized this split and eventual war between them for his work I could be reading into it what do you think I am not a Dissector like you I immensely enjoy your videos I download them and have them play in the background

[@thomriley1036]

If you want even more of this theory, watch Ewoks: Battle for Endor and notice that the actress who played Reverend Mother Mohaim in Dune (1984) plays the litteral Witch of Endor. And then, read The Courtship of Princess Leia novel for even more of these "Force Witches".

[@tuckernutter]

Im a huge hater of the extended duniverse but I accept the canon they have ancestors of tleilaxu females, just not the ones already made into axolotl tanks. I feel like some narrative tension would be omitted if you could just **undo** the process, even if theres life ending trauma in there. My headcanon is that the women of the axolotl tanks are lobotomized before being tanked, thereby no hope of regaining their consciousness. They had to have saved the tleilaxu women before then, not after.

[@spiscione]

i wish the RPG covered this group, they would quite formidable to play.

[@markshaffer6447]

If the Dune Sisterhood show is a hit for HBO they should do an NC-17 late night spin-off on the Honored Matres

[@thatotherguy8138]

I've always thought that the HM's were an example of the downside of Empathy - the Fish Speakers and BG's should have simply euthanized the Tleilaxu females. The BG's should have been able to predict the depth of rage they would have when they had their Other Memories awakened; 10,000+ years of nothing but mindless wombs at best, and at worst, wombs with a semblance of consciousness and knowing something terribly bad is happening to them. They should have simply let the women die, then punish the Tleilaxu for their crimes. But empathy led the BGs and FS's to try to rehabilitate the BT females, and 2000 years later, their Rage had overwhelmed everything. How many billions - perhaps trillions - of people ended up dying because of that mistake? And it's hard to judge the BG and FS harshly for it, because it would take a particularly cold heart to not give the BT females a chance to live, a chance to become something other than a womb, and to gain their own vengeance on the BT Masters who did this to them.

[@AdityaValvi]

Great point

[@eclatshwartzbaumcybertune2063]

This was great to learn about! This was one thing id not heard about.

[@KainBooks]

This sounds like it would make a great MAX series.

[@jsbadger]

They were quite the headache for just about everyone. Until the Miles Teg ghola came on scene. Duncan and Murbelka imprinting each other was interesting as well. I still feel she should have gone with him into the Void.

[@genmaicha.lapsang]

What doesn't get talked about enough is Herbert's approach to drug use. It seem to me that he advocates more for natural herbs and fungi rather than synthetic versions.

[@So-Be-It_890]

The Synthetic Spice colored the Honored Matres' eyes orange.

[@godKiller.369]

I always wondered if the Honored Mates were a kind of analog to feminism at the time of writing Heretics and Chapterhouse, while Bene Gesserit are superwomen in the traditional roles of wife and mother. Just a thought.

[@adamsinger123]

I think FH had some pretty deep-seated stuff about resenting manipulative powerful women. Which is there is many ways right from the start, with the Voice and whole idea of women taking scolding to an evolutionary next-level

[@godKiller.369]

@@adamsinger123 Heh, BG are obviously partly inspired by strict jesuits so there is that. Yet the BG are the true rulers of the galaxy for much of the books also. For the first part of Dune it might be argued that Jessica is as much the hero as Paul is as she recieves very significant focus. And there is Odrade as perhaps the central character, later Mother Superior in the later books. As for the voice it is a real world thing, as FH also argues in interviews, most of the information is about modulation rather than what is said and of course how to command as any parent or military officer would know.. BG is just taking it superhuman. Hm, while writing this I realized FH might have stolen this from Aasimov too as a version of the voice very much is present in his books when it comes to commanding AI/robots. Anyway the Matres are basically lesser BG in every way (and undiciplined) except they have taken unarmed combat and sex/imprinting to another level, hence my thoughts in the first post.

[@adamsinger123]

@@godKiller.369 great points, and for sure! Also the idea of people so advanced they can communicate lots of info with hand signals also appears in SECOND FOUNDATION. I think we’ve all been stealing from as Asimov for quite a while, and, very arguably, we have only just caught up with him in terms of being able to do the kinds of nuanced AI interactions that he was describing decades back

[@koko40800]

@@adamsinger123 I think you're oversimplifying FH and his meaning, as many ppl seem to do....His opinions toward the BG were not 'resentful'...FH basically portrayed the BG as 'good witches' (FH called his own wife a 'good witch', comparing her to the BG)....The BG really were trying to lead humankind toward a better future and the Golden Path, which Paul and later Leto II saw the value of (and tried to implement) themselves

[@johnharrison6745]

“Never trust something that bleeds for seven days and doesn't die." 😉

[@stigkenobi7525]

They remind me a bit of the Mord Sith, from Terry Goodkind's books.

[@gregbromley152]

I think there are some interesting parallels in our societies today in both the honored matres and the bene Gesserit. So much so that its not a real stretch of belief to hear of or witness the actuons of either organization and take those as truths.

[@marknovak6498]

The Honored Matres seemed to be an example of a group that degrade from its progenitors yet became much more powerful from being orders of magnitude bigger.

[@nathanielbables8652]

Now, these bad bitchs would kill on the big screen.

[@mateuspastori4611]

Can someone explain what is that substance that the HM use as substitute to the spice melange? And, does the BG make continues use of the spice melange? Because the withdraw of the substance is deadly, so, why aren't their eyes blue?

[@genmaicha.lapsang]

I think that in Chapterhouse it is explained that the two drugs are interchangeable. So, if someone is a spice addict (like all reverend mothers) they can stop their withdrawals with the Honoured Matres drug. And an Honoured Matre who is addicted to her orange drug can take spice and she will not withdrawal. However, the difference is that the HM's orange drug does not unlock any present powers, so a guild navigator can't take it to see the future. The implication seems to be that the drug was developed by BG in the scattering who were running out of spice.

[@바보Queen]

need a movie or a show about them

[@TiristorCro]

This intro music is much better!

[@shanenolan5625]

Thanks, mistress Elaine 😆

[@jehtalent3sixtymusic]

I would love to see a Honored Matres movie and their story told in the great movie of Dune. "Horror, Drama, Action and Love" all in one movie, it would be Great 🏆🏆🏆

[@richardbradley2335]

Its rumoured the BG looked into space for the first time and thought ''This is so boring''

[@Ptaaruonn]

Why did I learn honored Matresses?! I need more sleep... Great video as aways. Thank you ^ ^

[@maxmercer1931]

Elaine how did the Honored Matres move faster than the Bene Gesserit if the Honored Matres didn't use the Spice Melange?

[@NerdCookies]

Thanks for the question! Prana Bindu is how the BG achieve quick movement. It's not a side effect of spice.

[@maxmercer1931]

@@NerdCookies thank you for the clarification

[@shanenolan5625]

Their numbers and spice substitute are curious. . ( There are supposed to outnumber the bene gessurit 10 to 1 ) the spice substitute is curious. .the events at the end of ( heretics ) the consequences. .( spice withdrawal) for the empires population. ( The guild and sisterhood have stockpiles, but everyone else ), not to mention the war . Billions along Billions of Lives Lost .

[@EDDIETRUJILLO-q8p]

Looking back in hindsight, turns out the men with machines were not so bad after all. They did not destroy as much as The Bene Gesseret or Honored Matres.

[@danielmcgillis270]

I ruthlessly stole the HM from Herbert and use them in my D&D campaign. The Drow elves are now the Honored Matres, using their sexual domination to enthrall the male Drow elves and force them into complete servitude. Much of my campaign involves the Drow elves and the Underdark. The Honored Matres fit right into that very nicely. The problem is that many of my campaign men wish to be a part of this dominatrix sex cult. I can't say I blame them.

[@koko40800]

b/c that kind of slavery might be more fun than celibate 'freedom' lol

[@Kwasimitsu]

Can’t really blame them for their perspective. The Thleilaxu were savages, makes sense that they would want to wipe out those heathens completely. Generational savagery should be be destroyed, root and stem.

[@deepaksingh-ku9uf]

just wait till rebel moon comes out

[@briandain8432]

The Yellow (orange) eye-thing... Who did it first, DUNE or the SITH? I'd say Dune, so was SW paying homage or ripping off??

[@clarkstartrek]

THESE WOMEN WERE MY TYPE OF PEOPLE TOUGH AND UNCARING....THEY DID THEIR JOB IN THE DUNEVERSE!!!

[@Davepool-hs7vr]

So the Bene Thilex are to blame for the HM

[@raydavison4288]

I thought the idea of the "Honored Matres" was too much of a contrivance.

[@josealaniz1402]

IDK about this part of the story, it's a little dumb to me. I'm reading Heretics and the idea that there's this cult that enslaves men with sex, and one of them tries to do this to Duncan, but he ends up blowing HER mind was kind of stupid 🙄

[@FrancT-]

The whole idea of sex enslavement in general is dumb. But hey, the rest of the universe is pretty cool to me.

[@바보Queen]

so this is how george lucus stole the idea of the sith

[@erichpizer1]

like the sith vs jedi..... guess Lucas did plagiarise many ideas from dune

[@genmaicha.lapsang]

In fairness he's not nearly as bad as Game's Workshop and Warhammer 40K. That borrows A LOT from Dune.

[@koko40800]

They all stole from Dune...so did 'Avatar', 'The Matrix', and 'Game of Thrones' imo

[@nenyeo6090]

@@koko40800 for sure😂

[@kenaustinardenol1338]

Wow, indeed a massive spoiler. I dont think that a lot of Dune readers ever got past God-Emperor, and of course many just started to enjoy the Dune Saga. Its been a while I read 4, 5 and 6 but you told exactly what I remembered of the Honered Matres. The next surprise will undoubtedly be for fans not going there yet to hear who more or less survived from the originals. Personally I hope they manage to adapt all 6 books to the big screen in my lifetime ( probably not or gonna be close) and there is enough material to make, just as Star Wars) television series. One is already made about the origin of the sisterhood, personally i think they should have gone for the prime Atreides hero, Vorian.

[@largol33t1]

So in what book do the Honored Matres first appear? Is it Heretics of Dune? Or is that one book before?

[@kenaustinardenol1338]

@@largol33t1 Yep, Heretics, part 5 of the 6 original Dune saga, thousands of years after God-Emperor and followed by the conclusion in Chapterhouse

[@blackbart4646]

Wow how can these vids get any dislikes ??? It shocks me ;)

[@gnomechomsky2524]

Imagine how bad they must smell

[@brianjohnson5272]

Its scary how close Herberts Matrei and todays women are.

[@ewarrior9776]

Its sad you think that way. Keep away from women, please.

[@ghostnebula8805]

🤦‍♀️

[@Knee-JerkReactor]

Raving feminists.

[@ghostnebula8805]

🤡