Hornby Class 142 Pacer Shuttle Issues

Getting my old Hornby Class 142 DMU working end to end using my new shuttle system proved trickier than I thought

[@WirenwoodModelRailway]

Thanks, I've really enjoyed seeing you get the 142 up to speed. I have a couple of them myself - a newer one with one power car and common pickups across both cars, and an older one like this. I got the newer one working on DCC and keep meaning to get the older one going too. I'd probably need to get it going with just one motor car though as anything else seems a little excessive for DCC.

[@Northerner_Transport_Hub]

aaah, the class 142, a dreaded topic upon people from the North, like myself. Loud, dodgy, but strangely a bit compelling as they had a certain charm to some, hence a lot of people went out to see the 3 or 4 coupled together when they headed to the scrapyard.

[@ArcadiaJunctionModelTrains]

Model train electrics can be truly bizarre at times. I added steel wheels to a old Triang double-ended Transcontinental diesel unpowered bogie for smooth running and extra pickups - ran beautiful and had all the polarity correct and the thing runs backwards. I tried everything to get it to run in the original direction and I can't figure it out! In the end I gave up and just lived with it.

[@roberthocking9138]

Great to see you back., greetings from AUS

[@User-3O3]

I've had one of these since I was a kid, which my mummy-moo bought for me from a toy and train fair in the late-90's/early-00's.

[@mattnimmo]

I did something similar, with my Pacer; I simply "through-wired" both cars, so that both carriages picked-up power and both were powered, making sure that I switched the polarity, between carriages.

[@alanrobertson9790]

Me too. Did this with a couple. One with a plug and one permanently. Work much more reliably and shuttle happily.

[@oobill]

I actually think this particular shuttle unit doesn't like a motor running with reverse polarity. I'm still having issues with it after further running more after making this video.

[@alanrobertson9790]

@@oobill - For me the solution was obvious so maybe you have got some really strange set up. All you should need to do is connect the pick-up from the left side of the track from Unit A to the pick-up from the left side of the track from Unit B and ditto for the right hand side of the track. If the units both work OK independently they should work fine together with this set up. If you connected it the other way around it would create a short, the transformer would make a buzzing sound and the unit would not go.

[@oobill]

​@@alanrobertson9790 That's essentially what I've done. Except I can't have the drive wheels on one car being conductive as it bridges the break in the track at one end and doesn't stop. Just how my setup is. However, I've got it working now. I did a factory reset on the shuttle, rewired the units so that all wheels in one car and only the rear wheels of the other car are conductive and it's OK. Think I had a combination of a confused shuttle and a dodgy wire.

[@alanrobertson9790]

@@oobill From your answer and looking at your other videos I think I know what the problem was. Nothing to do with the 142 you should just have just cross connected the wires so all pick-up and motors work as a common unit. Your problem is that at one of your platforms (inner station I think) you have put the isolation break about 6" away from the buffer stop. This is fine for your Lima 156, it stops at just the right place. But 6" isn't long enough for 2 x 142s so it hits the buffer stop. Let me explain as a matter of generality. For shuttle operation you get 2 scenarios for rolling stock. A) Old Lima diesels where you get one pick-up on each of the bogies plus off course the train length, say 2 carriages. (Your Lima 156 is like this). In the this scenario you put at terminal platform 1 (in your case I think its your outer station) the break point at the throat of the platform so 2 carriages & half the diesel (or your complete 156) pass before the breakpoint and stopping. At platform 2 (your inner station I think) you would place the breakpoint 6 inches/about half a diesel from the end of the track/buffer so as soon as a diesel bogie passes the train will stop. B) Most Bachmann multiple units, where the units are electrically connected (or a cross connected 142). In this scenario you want a break point at the station throat for both platforms. (Or position your isolation break for the inner station at the same point as the outer station) 6" wont be enough for 2 multiple units. To allow operation of both scenarios you would need 1) a switch so the isolating section can either be shallow or deep on 1 of the 2 platforms. (In your case think its the inner station). 2) alternatively in your video you mentioned at your inner station you have a second platform which you could use if you change the point. Instead of doing a switch with different isolation points on 1 platform you could have different isolation break lengths on each of the 2 platforms. Why this is better than the "only the rear wheels of the other car are conductive" solution? Suppose you got rich and bought yourself a Bachmann 158, you then need a scenario B solution. If you have two isolation break points on 1 of the platforms (or use 2 platforms) you would be able to buy most 2 car multiple units on the market. Or 3 car etc if you had longer platforms. Might be I've got the wrong end of the stick.

[@numptypootis8012]

Hello Bill, I was hoping you are still repairing locos for other people because I have this Lima Western I bought on a bargain but no matter how much I've repaired it it will not run, if you're still repairing other locos I would really like to send this up to you to have a tinker since I'm a bit of a dope at this

[@oobill]

Not right now. But soon maybe. When I do I won't be opening up to all and sundry as before though I'll be a bit more selective and probably only one a month or something.

[@VICTOR-pf9eg]

Was the train bodies made from Leyland nationals are these the ones they use in Manchester

[@roberthill6216]

Yes. The 142's were built by Leyland at workington in Cumbria. The 155/153's were also built there. They shared engines and body panels with the Leyland National. The LEV (Leyland Experimental Vehicle) 1,2,3 vehicles were basically a Leyland National bus with a cab at each end, bolted onto a high speed wagon underframe. The experimental wagon they were based on is part of the national collection at York/Shildon. LEV 1 has been preserved by the Waverly line. LEV 2 was recently scrapped at the Connecticut Trolley Museum, it was a demonstrator sent to the USA to try and drum up export orders. LEV 3 is slowly rotting away in a field in Ireland. The class 140 2 car demonstrator unit is at the Keith and dufftown railway in Scotland. 2 141's are preserved in the UK. One is at the Midland Railway Butterly the other is in the one:one collection at Margate. Though some may still be extant in Iran, though its hard to confirm. They were exported there after they were withdrawn in the UK. Various class 142, 143 and 144 vehicles are at several preserved railways across the UK. Hope that helps.

[@robertlonsdale5326]

could you motorise the inner wheels only?

[@oobill]

No don't think so.

[@bjftype8288]

So basicaly the whole model needs to be treated as one model with two motors and two sets of pick ups

[@bjftype8288]

@Bill Ewart Well never mind, i'm not tempted to buy one, at any price.

[@alanrobertson9790]

Exactly. Well that's the way I did it, twice. Just join the wiring between the 2 cars. Works very reliably and can shuttle. Don't understand why Bill Ewart says not quite, but won't pursue.

[@oobill]

With both motors connected to all pickups it doesn't work well at all and I've now found after further running that it's not working well with both motors connected at all. I think this particular shuttle unit doesn't like a motor running with reverse polarity. (Update: Working after shuttle reset and rewire)