Hornby R1172 Class A1 "Bon Accord": Repair Request

[@peteredwards338]

Detective Bill solves another case ! Very satisfying .

[@russellbenton2987]

Thanks very much Bill. This was one of my worst eBay buys ever . As frustrating as hell . It would never have occurred to me that it was the back pony wheels that were causing the issue . Brilliant detective work there . And I was completely unaware of the pick up issue . It hadn’t really been run much because of the spectacular derailing . My points probably not brilliantly level but everything else runs through them. I even changed the points to see if that was the issue to no avail . So really good result there . You certainly went to the nth degree on that one . Well done !

[@oobill]

No probs Russell it'll be on it's way to you tomorrow. Really nice loco so well worth sorting. Off camera I also greased the gears and oiled the wheels on loco and tender.

[@richardclowes6123]

Hi Bill, I am learning so so much from watching your videos. I started with the Santa Express around the Christmas Tree then I was given the Hogwarts Express as a present when I became disabled and now, after 2 years have a fairly large layout in my shed. Cost is everything to me as I can't work now, so I watch your videos intensely and make load of notes. Occasionally I buy a cheap loco off eBay. I've repaired a few . . . and buggered up a few !!! It's all a learning curve, but you are my inspiration. Thank you so much for that. God bless you, and all those little workers in your engine shed !!!

[@jonathanlake6053]

It's the same reason the new Hornby Hush Hush has the floating rear pony truck I suspect.Those pick up wipers give notice that they about to expire when you see the loco leap on the track! I like your video when you show the loco going in the shed for attention,and then exiting when all is Tickety Boo.

[@donniblanco5239]

Fixed Rear Pony Trucking Ridiculous idea - Prime example of Corner Cutting, if ever there was One! Gr8 Troubleshooting 🤩✨🙏🏻✨👍🏻

[@monham5041]

Hi Bill. Wow. Now I know why my new locos derail on points. My Mallard is brand new and occasionally does that. That is so helpful. Thank you. Monique from Brisbane

[@marcdempsey5850]

Evening Bill, what can one say….. is this possibly why the hush hush pony wheels don’t touch the track or are so high at the back??? To much of a coincidence one may think. Excellent piece of detective work. Looks fantastic on the railway with the rack of coaches. All very best Marc

[@chris_A8502]

Good looking engine. You've managed to get it running nicely Bill, despite original manufacturing design flaws.

[@robjw66111]

well Bill you've just solved the 'run the railway in a power cut' problem! great video

[@francishales7116]

I am completely new to model railways and find this brilliant to watch and marvel at!

[@lord-al-2024]

Thank you for doing the video Bill i learnt a lot off the film.At least i know now what to look for..

[@DaiElsan]

They have that fixed pony truck on the Hush-hush. Great video once again Bill.

[@themodelshed7066]

Thanks bill that’s solved the problem with my A1 tornado

[@bilsat]

Hi Bill.I Have the same issue with a Mainline 937038 CL6600.It was driving me mad until I removed the rear wheel under the cab area, success!

[@JohnPW22]

Hi Bill, totally agree with the design concept being awful. However, your solution is the most elegant and simple fix I have heard of to date, and you should be applauded for salvaging what was otherwise a wrecked Hornby product! Well done!

[@shakeyhandsshedmodelrailwa2494]

applauded for salvaging what was otherwise a wrecked Hornby product! Well done!..... a big percentage are like that straight from the box nowadays

[@stephenparrott3377]

well done "B-Aldi" another great production.

[@astolatpere11]

Great looking engine on your track. Thanks.

[@beertruk2429]

A neat and classy looking engine.

[@bigmac60]

Very nice solution to the problem

[@mikeadam3227]

Really like the look of the "Bon Accord" Enjoy your methodical problem solving. Not enough of that these days. Enjoy your channel.

[@roberthocking9138]

Brilliant work Bill

[@johngibson4641]

Hi Bill ,, Good solution to a bad idea from hornby and shouldnt be so much trouble on long radius points ,, i think they thought , oh well if we change tooling to the solid rear truck included in the chassis they will save on time and $$$ on having to tool the proven swinging pony truck ,, again bad idea from hornby. Keep up the good work and gr8 videos you put on youtube for us to watch and enjoy so thankyou. Cheers from John in Australia.

[@darwinsmonkeybutler2113]

Beautiful loco, bad design, great solution :) I'm v impressed. Crack on, bonny lad!

[@lestercooper1871]

Hello Bill ,Excellent work on diagnosing the faults on this loco .Terrible design those rear pony wheels ,probably broke that pick up when it kept derailing .Can,t wait for you to tackle a old Bachmann A4 split chassis which i find are a nightmare !!

[@oobill]

The pickups wear through. I worked on a Bachmann V3 a while back with split chassis. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a2LciqCKbpaBj68

[@ashlybrown5341]

Another great video Bill never get board of watching

[@dfishpool7052]

Excellent detective work on the loco issues - well done! I agree with your comments about the pony truck - how the hell can a maker of scale models enter into such a non prototypical arrangement - I've got a Triang 'Britannia' and on that the pony truck has flanged wheels and is connected to the loco frames with a swivelling unit - It will go round any curves and not derail - if they could make them like that in the 1960s one wonders why they can't do it now?!!! I wonder if it is just cost cutting?

[@TheWGLOVER]

Hardly prototypical with a pivoting pony truck.

[@dduck1585]

@@TheWGLOVER its a toy train, a representation of a loco, does it really matter?

[@DaiElsan]

Cost cutting? Have you seen the price hikes of Hornby Rolling Stock recently? Hornby have actually cut corners in design and production as well as making people pay more for the cheapened product. Its a rip off.

[@dfishpool7052]

@@TheWGLOVER Maybe not, but a lot better than the present iteration!

[@christopherhill3302]

Thank you for your advice Bill. After viewing this, and also a Barrie Davis video, I have been able to get my Hornby Tornado to run without constantly falling off the rails. Whoever designed the Tornado model, cannot have tested it very much before Hornby put it on sale? My slightly older Hornby Duchess of Sutherland,( loco drive and not a million miles from the old Hornby Dublo Duchess, in terms of design,) ran fine straight out of the box. Kindest regards.

[@lestercooper1871]

Please have a look at Barrie Davis videos of the Hornby Tornado .I,m sure it will help you .

[@kevintyler7900]

Thanks you are inspirational

[@ewoodrailway]

Lovely model, thanks for sharing

[@dtb2654]

the loco is from a Hornby DCC set Majestic Digital Train Set and between 2013 - 2015 and would have been originally DCC fitted, for some reason the pre-owned set appears to have a high selling price at the moment

[@antonhenry4817]

That's very true, about pre-owed sets. But it looks has hornby have stop producing, DCC, train sets. If you want new, looks as you need to buy every individually.

[@schwarzalben88]

These newHornby A3's usually come with a second set of rear pony truck wheels. One set is for large radius track and the others for tight radius track. If my memory serves me correctly the second set of wheels are flangeless.

[@DaiElsan]

These wheels were flangeless. But as the loco swings on the curve of the points one wheel drops inside the track catching the track and throwing the loco into a derailment. Great design, NOT.

[@duck1946]

Nice detective work Bill, i wonder how many people have taken notice of the manufacturers reccomendation about radii of curves?or has the red mist taken over? I think the floating axle was Hornby's way of satisfying the critics of the swinging truck? Modellers can be their own worst enemy at times,its all about compromise realy.

[@mickboakes7023]

Great job Bill.

[@YsanneOshea]

Keep up the most excellent work and videos OOBill, Really appreciate the effiort you put into it all and the thoroughly useful tips you show us all. Now, a question for you if I may be so bold. I run locos dating from the late 70's/80/s and 90's. Mostly but not inclusively Hornby. Some of them are more like Triggers broom Triggers broom itself! I keep them running because the new or more up to date models are simply too expensive. I'm happy with this, it feels right to keep the faith with old friends. The bigger Loco's, of which I have seven of varying antiquities, all have swivelling and functional rear pony trucks. Nothings perfect and occasionally, as you might expect with machines of such age, things do derail. But it's nearly always due to operator error rather than the loco itself! Forwards or Backwards, on pony truck or front two or four wheel bogies, all wheels go round, even though many have flangeless centre drivers. So the question is, if we could design and produce perfectly functional models 40 years ago, why cant we now? Why are Hornby producing models where the training pony axle is deliberately designed to be a dummy with no contact with the track and no ability to swivel!? Its utter madness! Whats more, the lack of pony truck swivel looks highly unrealistic when rounding curves. Models from my childhood are nowhere near as detailed as they are today but at least they can go around curved track without looking just "ODD' ! If you don't want all of this hassle, vote with your wallet and don't buy this modern trash. They look quite wonderful, the plastic construction and detailing is often exquisite but the engineering behind the model is appallingly and shamefully bad. The only reason I can think of that Hornby might believe that this is a satisfactory way to proceed is that they can make it cheaper whilst still selling it at a higher price point. In 2022, Recycling is a good thing to be doing so, go to ebay and find something old. Mend it, rebuild it, detail it. Make the bits you cannot buy. Don't give Hornby any more of your hard earned cash for a poor facsimile of the real thing! Sorry about the rant but I DO hate being exploited!!

[@speleokeir]

I believe Hornby switched to the fixed rear pony because the rivet counters complained that the rear axel was fixed and didn't swivel and wanted something more realistic. Personally I think floating wheels look even more unrealistic and suspect those who wanted the change may be collectors with display cabinets, rather than those who run their locos. I've seen that Bachmann's latest models have a similar rear pony although it does actually touch the rails (being sprung) rather than floating like Hornby's. Whether that risks catching like the example in this video I don't know. The reality is that with model locos there's always a degree of compromise between practicality and realism. Personally first and foremost I want a reliable model that works at a price that's affordable to the majority.

[@PaulinesPastimes]

Malcolm Trussler, I completely agree with you on all points and the comment from speleokeir below. That fixed rear truck just looks stupid on a model layout with the back swinging out like that. Did the designers think that everyone has scale radius curves on their layouts? These are models to run, imagine with and have fun with. That's the point of model trains for me. Resurrecting non functioning or tired models is all part of the fun and tremendously rewarding too. My Tri-ang Polly has developed an intermittent short circuit and has had a minor nervous breakdown. I am looking forward to investigating, in the OOBill manner, and getting her back to calmness. 😊

[@oobill]

I genuinely think Hornby got seriously spooked back in the late 70s and early 80s when Airfix and then Mainline started producing models that were far more detailed and accurate to look at. They, quite rightly, upped their game and started producing more detailed models to compete. The thing is, I think they still seem to think that is a priority. It HAS to look right and be as true to the real thing as possible. So you end up with this nonsense. The fair thing to do would be to make the rear truck removable and offer both a fixed and articulated option. That way they appease those looking for realism and those who want the things to run as they should. But of course that would cost more to produce so they go for a daft design of flangeless floating wheels as a half way house solution which is neither functional or prototypical so they please no one. I would really love to see a new manufacturer come out making less detailed but functional and affordable models in the way Lima did in the past. Or for Hornby to start producing a less detailed budget range to encourage people into the hobby and to stay in it! Pigs might fly though.

[@PaulinesPastimes]

@@oobill ✔

[@noodlesouchouch]

excellent job great video

[@AlecDenholm]

Excellent video. The cynic in me thinks the Hornby trailing axle thing is a cost saver (since it becomes part of the larger molding, one less moving part and less assembly etc). It looks bad and performs bad, as you've seen, so I don't buy their explanation that it's supposed to be an improvement for aesthetics. Reviews of their new Hush Hush show that the trailing wheels are so far from the track that they don't turn, so I'm sure they're aware of the derailing issue you discovered.

[@SoRTs6233]

Another great piece of systematic diagnosis, finding, what is in effect, a design fault from one of the (supposedly) best manufacturers in the UK! Who does QA on these things? Great fix as well. Cheers, Jim L

[@jameshardy4354]

Well said about hornbys stupid floating axle

[@andyrussell7506]

Hi Bill I have one of these locos but a Bachmann version with the same flangeless cartazzi truck and have no problem whatsoever with derailing and I have had it a good number of years now so it must be a Hornby issue

[@gavinblackburn3105]

Amazing that a oo loco does not have pick ups in the tender .

[@David-ci1vn]

I wonder if the catching pony truck lead to the excessive wear and then breakage of the pick ups?

[@blue2sco]

Hmm might remove the pony truck wheels from a friend's Tornado. That derails on bends.

[@petertate5741]

Nice fix mate,neat,tidy and cheap.👍As you say how did this pass quality control !

[@oobill]

From what I have seen on the telly Hornby's quality control is running it round their own test layout and having a good look at it.

[@petertate5741]

Could be Bill ! Their recent offerings are way overpriced and have way too many faults.

[@petersmith4455]

hi Bill great repairs, usual hornby cock up !,my old Triang a3 does not have these problems, as the rear bogie swivels around.come back Triang Railways !of the early 60s when circus clowns were not in the design dept, spares back up is also ghastly.

[@PatricioLGorchello]

I wonder after watching the end of this, is it the same problem with the small wheels at the back and not the front bogie?

[@martinbradshaw7877]

I certainly and emphatically disagree with Mr Ducks comment. It’s not just a toy train. It is supposed to be a scale model of a famous locomotive. These are now very expensive and should be of a standard that warrants the cost.I would’ve been very disappointed. I seem to recall that on some larger locomotives with a pony truck, Hornby included a flanged wheel which might have been another solution. Wonder whether, since this was an eBay purchase, the alternative pony truck was mislaid by the original owner.

[@PatricioLGorchello]

Hi I have the Bon accord too, it cannot do a circuit without derailing, it has never been used, is the front bogie meant to be so loose as it appears to catch

[@duncanwatson9054]

If they are the flat wheels, that is the problem. Hornby changed them to barrel shaped. They never told anyone.

[@tudrow6087]

You could spread those wheels apart more. That's what I did to fix mine.

[@rhiwderinraytube]

Hi Bill did you check the back to back measurement on the rear pony truck?

[@oobill]

Not much point the wheels are flangeless. Also the lateral movement exceeds anything that wheel spacing adjusting would likely resolve.

[@rhiwderinraytube]

The pony truck design is another cost saving exercise (saves a separate moulding and assembly) that doesn’t work…..

[@colinpetterson1083]

Good repair of contacts but LNER pacifics never had Pony trucks the rear axle was in Cartazzi axle boxes in a ridged rear frame .

[@speleokeir]

True, but they didn't have floating wheels either. Given a choice of the two I'd prefer a pivoted rear pony truck. The reality is that in order to get around the curves and over the points of a model railway, which aren't prototypical either, you need to have some kind of compromise.

[@larrydene6379]

Hi, Bill. Love the content. I'm confused though. If pony trucks are prototypically rigid to the chassis, What's going on here with Britannia? kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKLSo3urjMadnqM or ( Allelys unloading Britannia, 70000, at Kidderminster, 25/01/22. ) Watch from 4:40. Do some engines ponies pivot and others not?

[@nothingtoseeheremangotuchgrass]

Well, the pony trucks are designed to look more prototypical. If they were able to swivel, then it would ruin the more accurate look. As we saw in this video, however, it would've been much better to actually have the trucks swivel than to have them stagnant.

[@europacifictradersltd3717]

hi bill. what can be done is to remove the flanges from the wheels leaving the wheel free to spin off the track without derailing

[@TheWGLOVER]

Doesn't have flanges on the wheels. Bill's solution is the best way.

[@lecoupbilly]

Sent you a email about this!

[@oobill]

Cheers. The idea of shaping the outside rim of the wheels actually floated around in my head but unless you have the right tools would be tricky to engineer correctly. Plus I'm not entirely convinced it would stop derailments altogether depending on how uneven points are. Far easier just to get the things out of the way.

[@gregoryhale2202]

Hi Bill, I'm not to sure which is the correct terminology to use, but would it be any benefit if you were to grind down the flanges on the rear pony truck wheels ?. I have seen large Hornby locos where the middle set of wheels in an 2-6-2 do not having any flanges this then allows the loco to go around small radius curves. ( hope this makes sense ) Cheers Greg PS: Love your channel.

[@oobill]

The wheels are flangeless

[@hillmangt1]

The problem is the tight radius points. Fine for short locos but not for pacifics. Hornby and Bachman both state certain locos have to run on second radius curves as a minimum. Use decent radii points and you wont have this problem and they look much better.

[@oobill]

Not everyone has the room for express points and I don't think it's good practice by Hornby or Bachmann to produce models that don't run satisfactorily on all their own track. It's actually a disguised admission of failure.

[@charlesemerson6763]

I agree totally it is a very poor design. The trouble is Hornby's whole range of new locos have this rubbish design. You can understand on the real thing the use of a lateral motion device but Hornby can't even get that right.

[@JohnJohnson-cn9fh]

bad design,thing is these loco,s cost a fortune,you should not have these problems.jpj