Horse Hierarchy, Confusion From Humans, Gender Based Separation And Other Comments Sorted Out Here

[@meganbayley9848]

"Be a Luke" is the energy I want to carry into 2022.

[@StableHorseTraining]

I absolutely love that! Thank you.

[@tinachippas7075]

Can't add to this discussion since I'm the least equine-savvy Stable Fan here. But...I do have decades of education- based experience which is why I continue to visit and learn from Graeme's tutorials. His teaching methods/techniques are of master-teacher quality, blending salient info with his enticing teacher/guide personality. He's added a very positive dimension to Utube viewing and rescued many of us from Covid isolation. And for that, I thank you, Graeme!

[@sarahthomson8183]

Yes! And Covid isolation.. All to real.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Thank you Tina! I really appreciate such kind words and I take them as a really nice and meaningful compliment. I'm constantly working on how to be a better teacher and in turn hopefully a better human. I'm getting a lot of practice lately! I'm glad you find some happiness here and a good escape from the pandemic. That's wonderful.

[@pennywebb867]

Hello Tina. Couldn't have said it better.

[@tinachippas7075]

@@pennywebb867 Thanks, Penny. Where are you located? I'm in FL.. Nice to meet you.

[@pennywebb867]

@@tinachippas7075 I'm in Baltimore, MD.

[@kathryndejaeger1002]

In my opinion, keeping a mixed herd makes for a more well-rounded animal. They would be more able to handle stresses of moving to a different stable if they are able to be turned out with either. Good for Graeme for allowing these horses to learn it.

[@asmera4547]

I think hearing horses snort is more magical and calming than rain on a roof! Love the way you work with their way of thinking. This is so much better than the "old fashioned" breaking!

[@carlajones7399]

Hi, great comments on human intervention and our responsibility for them. I believe we are responsible to intervene when there is possibly future accurances of a horse getting hurt by another horse. We are their protectors. I believe you were right to intervene on that video. Roni could have continued to run her till she panicked and ran through the fence. For instance. Love watching your videos, keep doing what you do, it's awesome that you're trying to learn and teach humans how to communicate more like and with the horse.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Thanks Carla! Yes, a panicked horse is a dangerous horse for sure. I'm glad you're enjoying the videos and time here, thank you for letting me know :)

[@heidikortman2534]

I've decided that there's a pun in your channel name. It's Stable horse training, because you're developing horses with stable personalities.

[@sarahthomson8183]

lol! true!

[@StableHorseTraining]

ha! Good one. True too I guess :)

[@pennywebb867]

Oh, that's 👍.

[@sandrawilley8374]

uh such wit What a joy to have read, I love it when I come across a statement, and it takes tiny moment of comprehension THEN BOOM, a burst of laughter. Much appreciated! ;-)

[@gailreske7111]

So sorry you have to deal with pressure or critical opinions. I like your kindly style, be it with horses or people. Your chanel has been refreshing, especially since Covid !!! Love you Luke !!!

[@basedimperialism]

Mares and geldings NEED to be kept together. It's unhealthy to have artificially structured herds. Horses should be kepts in herds structured as closely to naturally as possible, minus anything that might result in horses fighting violently like keeping two rival stallions together during mating season for the mares. I think that keeping a mixed herd is VERY good for the horses' mental health and social health. Horses are among the most social mammals on the planet, and they need to be able to interact with other horses.

[@user-ii3vn8tn3q]

When you watch horses in the wild, they are one connected group.

[@josiemainecoon]

It's interesting you use the term 'naturally structured as possible' because a gelding is not natural! There are no geldings in nature! But yes, I agree, it is good for a herd to keep mares & geldings together....My mare was actually killed by another mare, so the criticism that geldings & mares shouldn't be together doesn't make sense!

[@basedimperialism]

@@josiemainecoon I'm so sorry about your mare.

[@MrEzekiel1982]

Learning horses seems to me like gardening: if you think you know a lot you probably haven’t perceived how much there is to know.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Ha! I have to remind myself of that everyday and I hope I never stop doing that. Great saying, I know there are similar ones but I like that one.

[@pennywebb867]

This is so true, about everything. Know-it-alls that I have met are generally folks who don't. I tend to shy away.

[@jessicat3951]

Best comment award! 🥇 Natural systems are so much more complex than anything engineered.

[@kelsiecaswell9845]

We’re here to learn about horses! Great horsie behavior. Love watching these videos to help me better understand horses. Thanks for the uploads!!

[@carolgwilt1885]

I think that putting both mares and geldings together is good. They are together in the wild and do fine. So why separate them in captivity? As you stated mares and geldings act different and so do different things. But they do these things in the wild also. Very interesting to see how each horse reacts with the other. Keep up the good work in teaching horse behavior. Hugs to you and the horses!!

[@StableHorseTraining]

Thank you Carol!

[@gelisgiallen4088]

Carol, I agree that having males and females together is natural herd dynamics, and is desirable. But I'm not understanding how wild herds contain a significant number of geldings. Studs and mares of all ages, yes, but lots of geldings? I can't quite imagine that.

[@goldenyearsacres9163]

@@gelisgiallen4088 I was thinking that same thing... geldings not the norm in the wild, I would think?

[@kkdoc7864]

I am so glad you did this and let us watch! And the best part was your telling us the similarities, personalities, and differences among the horses.

[@sasmythe9350]

I’m with you. I no longer have time for people who think they know everything and won’t accept someone else’s viewpoint. I watch you because you’re ideas are new and fresh and horse oriented. You go, man. I love your herd.

[@southernskywoman]

I love the concept of Luke as your role model.

[@pennywebb867]

I know! It gave me a huge insight into both Luke and Graeme.

[@OliveDeuce]

You’re exactly right, horse do change hierarchy position

[@her8425]

Luke is very protective of Little Miss and she obviously enjoys his company.

[@sarahthomson8183]

I really like Ross Jacobs videos. Sensitive, thoughtful -not to mention a life time of experience. What impressed me even more was his honesty about his own mistakes with horses. It takes a very solid person to admit mistakes. Would trust him 100% with my horses-if I had any.. Haha.. Sob, sob.

[@martiefranza3481]

Love Ross Jacobs too ✨

[@StableHorseTraining]

It's true, he's quite humble and very wise. Funny too, we've had great conversations together and I sure hope he can make it to Canada sometime

[@deniseheon8842]

Your amazing at everything you do!! Negative people will always be around unfortunately!! But jealousy is a terrible thing!!! Mixing the gelding's and Mare's are a very good thing! You now when to step in and it's not very often! Your horse's are very good! ❤️🐎❤️🐴

[@StableHorseTraining]

Thank you so much!

[@brendawilson484]

Just love your videos and how responsive you are to your viewers. Most of us thoroughly enjoy them and learn a great deal. People are opinionated these days, but you have my sincere respect.

[@StableHorseTraining]

I appreciate that! Thank you very much

[@lilnh1039]

You dont have to explain yourself to me. Im on here to listen to your opinion, not someone else. If they dont like this channel, they can leave.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Thanks! I hope they stay and ask questions in the end, but it's up to them

[@janetpartyka5968]

I know nothing about horses, so for me, it's a blast listening to your commentary. I like your low-key style. The horses are beautiful and smart. I appreciate when you explain their movements/behavior; it helps me understand what they are doing and why. Keep up the fun show. Thank you. :) :)

[@StableHorseTraining]

Thank you so much for taking a moment to write that to tell me. I'm glad you're enjoying your time here and the horses!

[@ldolan4051]

The language among all the horses is an education in itself. Ty.

[@donnacsuti4980]

Thanks for all your explanations on training. I'm sure each horse is different so they are able to understand your behavior and intent. Being social animals that have to communicate without words they must be thinking and watching all the time. I like your gentle methods.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Thank you! Yes, horses have absolutely nothing better to do with their lives other than protect them. This requires a master level of observation skills and as long as we can be aware of that then we can hopefully tune ourselves to match that.

[@irinab.8608]

I had not the time to watch the progress of little Miss - she is doing great and you are doing great! And thank you for adressing this type of critics or opinions in this calm way!

[@StableHorseTraining]

Thank you so much Irina!

[@jennifer1110]

I obtained my degrees years ago in counseling and psychology and I am thoroughly enjoying learning about horse behavior in more natural settings where they can be themselves. I love picking up on the subtle clues they give and absolutely appreciate your commentary and how you try different things and use the feedback to amend as needed.

[@ldolan4051]

Psychology is my lifetime interest also from any species. I have been intrigued since Jane Goodall and her work. I don't know about you, but I always feel like when we discover something new we've just scratched the surface again, ever fascinating.

[@leeevers8976]

“They” say it’s 10% of a group that make the most work. I’ve found this to be true for most situations, be it work or just life. I enjoy watching herd behavior and learn much from your videos.

[@gelisgiallen4088]

Roni seems to wonder why Miss Wildie's horse manners are different from his own. Yet Ambassador Luke comes to the rescue and sorts it out. Luke is the perfect horse if ever I saw one. Good job, Luke!

[@StableHorseTraining]

I agree! He's the best :)

[@lauraalbertson7821]

There is just something about watching and learning from you that is comforting. You’re explaining your reason for putting Mares and Geldings together is spot on. My new Baby Colt, Little Bear , is close neighbors with a Huge Friesian Mare. She has had Babies . She grooms him , stand watch over him , and is such a comfort to me when I have to leave him . I have seen him pull away when she grooms too hard . It is all within 6 short days the bond has been made . Wonderful to watch. . And I am so sorry for mean comments. My Husband and I love you my Friend! Laura 😇

[@catherinewhite4313]

I live the thought of BEING with them when you aren't trying to get them to do something.

[@myevilplans]

I recently acquired an OTSB with history on a dude string and has some baggage, these videos really help me understand him...BTW, impressive facility too👍

[@StableHorseTraining]

Thank you! and you're welcome, I'm glad I can help

[@donnacsuti4980]

One place I rode strictly kept mares and geldings apart but the end result was they didn't get along and were fisty with each other when out on a ride. I suspect your method is much better.

[@StableHorseTraining]

I suspect it is too :)

[@tinnnn1]

I only recently discovered your channel. I love your channel. I love what you say and how you approach your horses. I've been watching another channel on Friesian horses which I find fascinating. Your channel is very different but very interesting at the same time

[@StableHorseTraining]

Thanks! Welcome to the channel!

[@harlcc261]

same here Martin 😊

[@sandyhayden-bristow1382]

I have always been taught to learn from nature. It speaks to us if we simply take the time to listen. Many people, I am sad to say, are more interested in talking than listening...and they deprive themselves of so much! You, sir, listen and then give that education to those of us who do not have that opportunity. Thank you for taking the time to help us reconnect with nature.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Thank you for taking a moment to let me know :) I really appreciate that.

[@Martha-s3e]

I think you're doing good with what you're doing

[@StableHorseTraining]

thank you :)

[@Martha-s3e]

@@StableHorseTraining your very welcome

[@pattirockgarden4423]

Agree with your opinion that both mares & geldings can be together, but I've had an aggressive gelding in the past, that did much better with geldings only. I think it is not black & white. Just my experience, not a criticism. In the end, the horses will work it out in most cases. But human intervention is necessary in certain cases, to protect them from harm.

[@StableHorseTraining]

I agree it's not black and white, more of a guideline to encourage being together rather than the opposite. I've rehabbed some of those types of horses to get along with others in the end, so if you have the time to help them, I encourage that when I can.

[@starlenekalinski5633]

I agree with you. Horses need to be in mixed herds.

[@truthofthematter9409]

Cracking up at Roni's lip when his head comes up from the barrow! Omg.... so cute! Fyi I'd likely be a Gracie but not so loud.

[@hazellove2144]

If what you're doing works, keep at it. I also notice you are always improving as you and the horses learn together. 😊

[@truthofthematter9409]

when training horses as with dogs, cats... a person must train themself to think as they would therefore, must learn their behavior in the wild or natural social settings. Sort of like what you implement. You put them in a large arena and you go out with them, you speak their language and become one of them by watching and learning. Some have the old way of thinking about animals and stuck in their ways or thinks their way is the only aka arrogance. This is how I learned about dogs behavior and to train them. This is how I learned about cat behavior and to train them also. I still love and have horses but I did not get the pleasure of sitting with them and learning like I did with my dogs and cats because they were kept at a friends stable. I'm learning a lot now... through your channel and views. THANK YOU

[@StableHorseTraining]

My pleasure

[@kkdoc7864]

So many things to comment on!! Luke and Roni are so very different when keeping others away from a mare. Roni does drive by’s aggressively, but with no follow-thru. Luke finesses his way around the arena, never going after anybody just subtly maneuvering his turns and blocks to achieve his goal. And he gets it done more effectively, too. Did you notice how many times Luke gazed over at Roni as if to say, “Do you get my point?”

[@morgannahyde7502]

KZbin tossed your channel into the mix. I'm glad it happened though I don't know why other than my viewing tends to be eclectic. I don't know anything about horses; at one time they were present in most lives and are now novelties for most of us. I'm grateful for the opportunity to look over your shoulder.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Thank you! And welcome to the antics around here 😊

[@angelatracy7418]

Ahh... yes the "force" is strong with Luke" Is this learned? or the natural personality of a sensitive leader? Like a parent who teaches by example and keeps the peace? Or was this taught? Did he learn to protect? Has he had to influence his environvent because it's his job as a leader to keep the peace? He is great! Worth thousands................. I have observed no confusion within your herd. They seem to understand your leadership when exhibited. All of this is so refreshing and positive. Thank you for the education! I pay for lessons and advise that I am sometimes uncomfortable with.... because they seem to leave the Horse out . My Horse should be able to ask...I ask... What makes them safe is the goal. Pick up the feet, harness, trailer... this teaches alot!

[@StableHorseTraining]

Nature vs nurture. I'm not sure. Yes, horses should be able to ask at all times. They may not get the answer they want, but the opportunity and acceptance of them asking is imperative.

[@syvasenmaria]

I think that horses need to be around each other. Geldings and mares together. It keeps the herd and the individual horse in balance. I might be a bit controversial but I do think that stallions need to be with other horses too. Geldings that is. I find it sad when a stallion is kept alone all the time. Here in Finland some the Finnhorse stallions are put together on a pasture (sometimes the pasture is on an little island on tke lake) for the summer when they are 2-4 years old. They learn manners that way. It's been done for centuries. Humans go there only to feed them and check for any injuries and stuff.

[@pennywebb867]

Agree about stallions. It's a hard exercise to keep them with other gelded horses but at least they aren't solitary.

[@valbeech7509]

Well said Graeme! Thank you for another fascinating post, much appreciated. I am lucky to board my horse at a small yard where the owner is of similar mind and yes where the horses get on with each other in mixed sex groups.

[@sandrastevens4418]

I had a small herd of mares and geldings, 3 mares and 4 geldings they all got along pretty good. But the mares where definitely in charge. I didn't keep my horses separated. People project human feelings on horses which is totally ridiculous, horses have a herd hierarchy there is one top horse and it's usually a mare. People also don't seem to understand that horses don't like to be locked up in stables, they like to be out together. Nobody but you should decide how you keep your horses. I am new to your channel but to me your horses look healthy and happy. And mostly negative comments are made out of jealousy just keep that in mind.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Welcome to the channel! Great to have you here :) I see you've become a member too! That's amazing, thank you. Make sure to check out the community tab for all the extra information I put there for members.

[@sandrastevens4418]

@@StableHorseTraining your welcome just a little help I know how expensive it is to own horses.

[@aileen694]

This was an excellent video! *Very* interesting to read all the various comments and your responses, logical as usual. Roni is so impressive-looking. But then he ruins that illusion by his look of complete befuddlement when Luke sticks to Little Miss, and "where the heck is my Lena?" It's great to see Missy tearing around, having fun! Reminds me of Zeus in the snow the other day 😁

[@Kaalina99]

I ride on a Western Ranch in Switzerland that keeps its horses in a mixed herd. I can’t say if the horses are more balanced due to the mixed herd or because of living in the open and in a herd rather than in stables (comparing it to my childhood English stable)… It’s the most interesting thing for a beginner rider to learn about herd interaction, hierarchy and leadership amongst horses and most importantly horsemanship🙂 makes me a better rider…

[@rurome2151]

Interesting the way you explore the horses' behavior and challenge them and allow them to challenge each other to go beyond their comfort zone.

[@StableHorseTraining]

thank you

[@rottiesrule78]

I like the channel just the way you do it 👍

[@erika7674]

After reading the conversation about Think Like a Horse, I was tempted to take a look. I see that the man has another KZbin channel: Gun & Firearms & Think Like A Cop. That was enough for me! I went no further ...

[@StableHorseTraining]

Fair enough. It's a small subset of the population that is attracted to that kind of material, most of us are repulsed.

[@janeholland1399]

Best horse videos! I have learned so much from you and your herd! Thank you.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Wow, thank you!

[@kari8187]

“Nobody wants to be like Gracie “ you’re wrong for that🤣🤣 This was nice to see these two chitty chat , they both have strong opinions about the neck lol that’s where they will bond 😉 Luke is your peace keeper and role model.

[@maryleewalden3175]

Your new grey wild girl is beautiful! Maybe this info is on your channel somewhere that I haven’t seen but I would LOVE a rundown on each of your horses - name, age, hh, breeding, etc. I love them all but especially Lena and this new wild girl. Funny because my own horse ( who I love beyond all reason ) is a TWH gelding.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Well, I've done a couple of videos only about one horse, here's Lena: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5iTomueo8aEfpY Here is part 1 about Gracie: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGjGq5SigNN6iq8 Here is the one about the new little Wildie: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYTWnqiOrL2tasU and here is one about my BC Wildie: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hX64XqqJncisfas Roni is a quarter horse and Luke is an Appendix supposedly. Both are 9. Here is where I measure them all: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpbPY5SoZbKCkJI and there are about a zillion videos of me talking about their breeding, age and name :) I'll see about doing a dedicated one for sure.

[@Ladymay58]

Ps. I'm sorry I did not reply to your reply as I have been quite ill of late.. I think everyone has their own way of training horses and what works for one may not work for another.. I think if your happy with the way they are responding to you and to the other horses , then that is all that matters.. Your way is working for you so to hell with what others say.. My thoughts anyway.... We learn as we go.. I know that if I was to live there I would be there helping everyday.. I love them , always have .. They are sheer magic in my eyes.. Magestic , beautiful animals.. Beautiful to watch.. Take care always , Your videos are really relaxing and enjoyable to watch.. Thanks again for sharing with us horsey people.. hahaha Enjoy your day..and God Bless ... Hugs for them all.. or a good scratch at least from me here in Australia.. Happy days ...... xx ☺❤xx

[@sarahthomson8183]

Interesting take on Roni being "possessive" of Lena. Opened my eyes a lot to other possible motivations. With prey animals it seems to come down to fear=actual survival. If someone took Lena away from him, he would be alone (from his perspective), without a close herd, which could equal extreme vulnerability in the wild and possible early death. Very interesting.

[@pphedup]

Or he may be being "possessive" to maintain his position in the herd?

[@sarahthomson8183]

@@pphedup interesting.. but wouldn't that also be fear/survival based?

[@pphedup]

@@sarahthomson8183 I'd think so, yes.

[@StableHorseTraining]

I think a lot of times we place thoughts on the horses that are wrong. I'm mostly joking around narrating, but I genuinely wonder stuff and think on why horses do things. It's hard to figure out so we have to rely on the objective evidence we have of the actions and then address those if they are a problem.

[@PennyLane66]

Sorry you had to address negative comments again. I was always taught if you have nothing nice or constructive to say then say nothing but unfortunately the internet brings out the worst in some people. I moderate on a large forum & hear these types of comments all the time ‘do it my way, I know best I’ve been doing this x number of years’ & often those people have the worst understanding of their hobby. On a lighter note I’ve loved all these introduction videos watching how the different horses react with each other. I would love it if sometime you could do another slo mo compilation of behaviours during these introductions, I find them fascinating & they teach us so much about how to communicate better with the horses albeit in our bumbling human fashion.

[@jillsimmons110]

I absolutely love your videos. So fun and informative. Thank you.

[@catherinewhite4313]

I'm sorry people are rude. You train in a very different way than I was taught, and it is fascinating. I find myself thinking about my last extended barn experience. So much of it can come down to scale and churn: how many horses? How frequent are changes? How quickly do we try to make those changes? I like the slow gentle pace .

[@StableHorseTraining]

Thank you. Yes, it can be a timeframe thing and people can get rushed. It leaves gaps and then the next person has to try to figure that part out. Happens a lot it seems.

[@AuroraInbag]

Really late comment I know. But I somehow completely missed this video. Really sorry if someone else has already mentioned this in the comments. I tried to go through them, but I could have missed it too. I have a wonderful 11 year old mare, who's in a mixed herd of mare's and geldings. In summer times they are out together 24/7. And I must say there's a lot of calm and gentleness in that herd. But I'm getting a lot of: "Oh no! You should never mix them up" comments too. The only one I've gotten, that made a slight sense to me, is when she's in heat. Two of the geldings in the herd still believes they can make babies. Now she's rather big, so one of them can't jump her. But the other one can and do. One time she did get some bruising from his hoofs on her back. But nothing severe, and she just had time off riding til it was healed again. So I am not concerned too much about injuries. But this lady that told me not to have them together, was super worried my mare would get an infection from...well...all the 'fun times' these two have in the field. That it's apparently something not too uncommon, since obviolsy he doesn't shower first :-D . I've decided that as long as all parties are comfortable with it (meaning the gelding's owners too), that they all stay together, and we will simply have to 'run that risk'. Cause taking her away from the herd when she's in heat (which could be up to 8 days at a time) would just stress her so super much. Being away from her friends and family essentially. But I could see why, if there's geldings in the herd that loves to play stallions still, and the mares get a lot of bruising and infections from it, that maybe then you'd separate them into two groups instead. Thanks for everything you do here. I learn so much from you and your horses. It's always a huge joy watching your videos.

[@StableHorseTraining]

No worries at all, I usually see most comments that come in :) That's a tough one... I can definitely understand the concern. I'm not too sure about infections as I've never heard about that happening, but yes the mares can get pretty beat up on their hind end and back, which isn't good. Will practice make it better? Dunno... I think that if there was a gelding still mounting mares then that's the guy I would start policing a bit more or removing, not the mare. That's a horse that needs to "behave" and find something else to do. If you find the injuries to be minimal and nobody really cares, then it's probably just as well to leave well enough alone.

[@marysquires7321]

You are doing a great job. Your horses are doing good!

[@marysquires7321]

Your horses are living like horses should.& being taken care of very well & learning how to live together. Thank you!

[@sarahthomson8183]

Aww.. She tried to sidle up to Roni there.. I love her. She needs her own Instagram account. Little Miss could be the BC wildie ambassador?! I create websites (25 years) for a living and handle social media. I'd volunteer my time for this if there's any interest.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Now that's funny! Her own instagram account... well, she's not my horse so I don't have a say in that.

[@jandunn3075]

I really should watch the whole video and then make my comments all at once but I'm commenting as I go today. As to the comment of your confusing the horse if you're in the herd or the leader. When you're in the herd you're still the leader, you never become a lower horse when you're in the herd. That would just be dangerous. Whether you're in the herd or out of the herd you're still the leader. You're doing a great job keep it up. As to the question of turning out geldings and mares together, unless you've got a stallion there's no reason to separate the sexes. What are you going to do when they're on a trail and a gelding's behind a mare? They have to be okay with each other.

[@StableHorseTraining]

That's a great point actually about going on trail rides or just plain riding with another person with a horse not of the same gender. The more and better acclimation the horse has to that the more peaceful it's going to be, otherwise it'll probably just be exciting!

[@inlesinlet]

I had literally never heard of the "you *must* separate the mares and the geldings" thing until I was watching another horse KZbinr just the other day 😂 Where I'm from (Northern Norway), stallions become geldings *so that* they can be in with the mares without causing trouble/babies! Literally my first time on a horse, at 11 years old, we were all clueless kids riding geldings and mares next to each other without any squabbles. What a strange dogma to have, that they *must* be kept separate. Hold on... Question... If Joka with her behavior drives the other horses away and won't let them come close (unless it's on her terms), and that's the behavior that we associate with being "at the top of the hierarchy", isn't that a little strange...? If you're in the middle of the herd being sour and kicking everyone who's trying to be friendly to you, why is that "good leadership behavior" and not "antisocial behavior"? It's always puzzled me how people look at horses and place them here or there in some hierarchy in the herd. I don't really... see it. Either I'm really inexperienced with very bad observational skills, or something's fishy about the entire premise behind herd leadership behaviors and herd rank. I *have* observed certain horses being picked on and bullied by basically the entire herd. But whenever someone more experienced than me have pointed out that "this horse is the leader", I've looked at the herd and just felt like a big question mark. That one mare who's bossing everyone around, how's she ensuring the safety and survival of the herd by telling the other horses they can't have *this* pile of hay? I don't get it. You'd think that if there *was* a clear leader, or someone who pulled rank in a hierarchy above everyone else, then there would be some observable behavior to back that up. I don't know, it doesn't make sense to me. Do you know of any recent accessible research that's been done on herd dynamics and hierarchies?

[@Ladymay58]

I think you do an amazing job with your horses Graeme, I hope I spelt your name correctly.? I know it can be spelt in two ways , so sorry if I'm wrong.. Your horses have a great trust in you by all I see, and enjoy your company.. I enjoy watching and listening and also learning new ways with horses through all you do with them.. Where you live is beautiful to I would like to say.. Horses can be very protective of not only other horses but of their owners.. Years ago when I looked after horses , there was one horse a new one , huge in size , 18 and a half hands a hammer head, and a little fiesty, actually backed up against me in his stall, as his trainer which he did not like came into the stall with us , and tried to touch me up.. It scared me so much as I was then only a teenager.. I didn't like this man either.. he was creepy...So this hammer head backed me into a corner, which I must admit scared me to death as I thought he was going to kick me as would try to kick Joe when he came near him... Anyway , he didn't kick out at me but stood firm, I had his huge bum in my face as he towered over me...but pushed at joe and pounded his front foot until he left the stall, angry as hell...... Then he moved away from me and came up to me as gentle as a lamb... I guess it just shows you how animals can feel your enegy , know who is good and who is not.. We became really good friends , and he was putty in my hands.. I don't know what happened after that a I left the stud , as this man continued his behaviour , so I was not willing to stay and ended calling the police... I only hope they treated him well as he was hard to handle sometimes and the other stable boys found him threatening , and would warn me of this when he first arrived.. He would push and jump at the wheelbarrow when they went into his stall to clean it out.. Anyway, i love the way your horses all react to you and the gentle way you treat them.. Give them a scratch from me .. I love watching all your videos, brings back good memories for me. Thanks again and take care. xxxx

[@kkdoc7864]

Is the fact that she rolled right next to Roni mean she felt comfortable around him? No fear?

[@maritaandcats]

In my observation, the best leaders don’t need to act all “leader-ish” all the time. Everyone knows they’re the leader, so they can step in to guide or reprimand at any time, but don’t need to constantly push others around to remind everyone who’s who. I see this with my chickens 😁 Pretty Girl is the flock leader. She’s very smart and thankfully not a bully. Just a quiet noise or a turn of her head is enough to tell the other birds to back off. In contrast, the second in command, Goldie, is always pecking and tackling the lower birds. Like my favorite teacher once told me: you can either control a classroom through fear, or respect. I think you earn a horse’s respect through confidence and competence. They can tell when you understand them and know what you’re doing. So to anyone who says you’re confusing your horses: they just need to watch more videos! Your horses are NOT confused! They know they have to listen when you step in and they definitely know you know what you’re doing. What fascinates me is how you balance when to give into their preferences versus insist they wait for you. Especially with petting Little Miss on her face. Most of the time you make her wait just a little beyond what she would choose herself, but sometimes you let her go when she asks to go. How do you decide? And how do you convince horses you’re not a pushover while still respecting their preferences and letting them have some agency? I work with teens online and I know how to do it with them, but how do you do it with horses?

[@pennywebb867]

Your comment gave me food for thought. My thought-path led me to question what horses look for in their herd leader, be it lead mare or stallion. Graeme has really guided me in this understanding and here's my answer, at least my answer with what I know today. Horses like hierarchy bc it makes them feel safe. They like to know who they should look to for answers to questions like, "Do I need to run away?", "Is there good food here and/or good water?", "Is it safe to roll and will it feel good?", "Is it safe to lay down and sleep?", "Can I get this itch scratched?", etc. They can relax once they know who will answer these questions accurately. But here is the part I didn't understand until I started listening to Graeme. All of these questions are being asked and answered all the time and usually very, very quietly: a flick of an ear, a swish of a tail, a lowering or raising of a head, a movement of feet, a nose touch, an eye blink, etc. Human actions are so loud! So loud, in fact, that we always miss cues until we quiet down, pay close attention. Being leader in a herd isn't about telling herd members what to do but gaining their respect and trust by proving they offer reliable answers to those questions I mentioned. It's not a top-down kind of thing. It's not about telling the herd to do something; it's about saying trust me, I won't lead you into danger, here is good food, fresh water, scratches, fun barrels to play with, safety from predators, etc. I have really simplified all this and, for sure, left out huge chunks. But as I read your comment I found myself going off balance. Then I started questioning why was that. And I realized it was our really tiny differences in defining leadership. It was very subtle though. I don't know if this makes any sense, definitely a long winded response. But thanks for taking the time to think about and write your comment; it certainly gave me the opportunity to reflect on what Graeme has taught me over the years. Stay well. Penny

[@KristyW72]

Your doing a great job.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Thank you!

[@TheLaughingDove]

Really surprised to hear that gender seperating herds is a thing for some folks. Don't know if it's maybe regional (I'm in Australia) or riding tradition based (ya'll seem to be riding Western, I mostly learned English/English is way more common where I live and there's some quirky differences) or if I just never happened across it. I mean, stallions are a different story of course, but geldings and mares are usually mixed pretty freely around here as far as I know.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Most people mix them, a few don't and they want everybody else to do it too so they can justify their segregation and fearful tactics of caring for horses rather than have them balanced

[@sandrawilley8374]

Superbly stated: CRITICAL THINKING vs CRITICAL COMMENTING! ISHALL REMEMBER THAT!

[@StableHorseTraining]

that's a good summary

[@malinewerman9138]

The only good reason I have heard as to why mares and geldings should be kept apart is that some geldings mount mares when they are in heat, which can lead to infections. So I get why some people will seperate them in pastures. Places with a lot of horses, like riding schools, might do it because it is easier.

[@madelineevans128]

Hi, Will Little Miss the BC wilde horse get taller or are they a short stocky breed?

[@StableHorseTraining]

It depends, she'll get a little taller I think, but not too much. Mr. Wilde is a B.C. Wildie too and he's quite big..

[@Digidot1992]

I've had my horses in segregated and mixed herds. I don't think it usually matters very much, especially when you have a small number of horses in a large paddock. That way they can naturally break off into their little groups if they want. Creating harmonious herds is more important than what genders you put out together.

[@OliveDeuce]

My gelding goes out with my cousins mare all the time. It literally does not matter lol, they’re geldings, they cant mate

[@suee434]

Here's what I've observed, given that I'm only seeing snippets of life at SHT. When he arrived, Mr Wildie was clearly a loner; he'd often be in the arena standing on his own. Roo was the first horse with whom I saw him develop a close ongoing bond--complete disclosure, I always saw Roo as a bit of loner--though he now plays with all the boys and is interacting more with the girls. (If I had to guess, I'd say he'd reached the age where he wasn't always welcome hanging around the herd, so learned to keep his distance.) On the other hand, from day one, Lil Miss made it clear she knew how to be part of a herd and, more importantly, wants to be part of one; witness how quickly she made friends with everyone. And what she was expecting of Roni is the type of leader she was used to. With the addition of Luke, she livens up as if to say "yup, we're a herd again, and Luke's got my back!" Anyone who justifies doing things with an animal because it's easier on themselves... well, this is borderline critical, but in my opinion that's never a good reason if you're looking to make friends, with animals or humans.

[@pennywebb867]

Very interesting observation about RooRoo. Never thought about that before. It would certainly match up with behavior in the wild where, once colts reach an ability to reproduce they are culled from the herd. Hopefully they join bachelor herds until they are old enough to gather mares and have their own herd.

[@jandunn3075]

There is no need for people to be rude just because they've done something for 20 years and it works for them doesn't make it the only way. And longevity certainly doesn't make a thing right.

[@StableHorseTraining]

I sometimes wonder when people approach me and start with "I've been doing this for 30 years (or whatever), you should do things different" and their way of doing things is ancient or some kind of old wive's tale of doing things and I think that instead of it being a source of bragging it should be a source of shame that despite 30 years going by, nothing new had been learned. Clinton Anderson is a fantastic example of that... Or Linda Parelli perhaps

[@TheLostBear78]

Ah. I so miss horse squeals. I had to give away nearly all my horses because of health battles I have been having. Only kept my zero maintenance ponies I have had since I was a teenager. They are mother and son (gelding). And the only sounds they ever make anymore is just nickers for hay.

[@TheLostBear78]

About leaders and follower horses. My pony mare when she was in with other horses, was the "alpha" for a while, bossed everyone around. Then we ended up with an elderly appy mare, and that old girl took over and my pony ended up pretty low in the herd then.

[@TheLostBear78]

I really really miss having a big horse... Pony is nice, but it's so hard for me to kneel down to hug her neck. Not getting many horse hugs these days.

[@sarahthomson8183]

I'm curious to know what was motivating Luke. Is it paternal protectiveness, or protecting a potential mate?

[@StableHorseTraining]

Great question... Instinct of some sorts. He does like to take the girls under his wing in a way. I believe he's a bit of a peacekeeper and wants everybody to get along... but maybe I'm just projecting my own thoughts! All in all it might be some "claiming" in a way as he keeps her away. He's not necessarily fighting for her but there is some protection happening.

[@timdyer1220]

Gray mare will eventually assert herself over the other mares, over the roan gelding and quite possibly the two bays.....That's a prediction on my part :-)

[@StableHorseTraining]

We'll see!

[@martineinfrance]

Critics could be constructive but they rarely are, rather negative. I don't see the problem in mixing genders. On the contrary, it's best for the horses. I have always rode in mix herds except when horses were not gelded. Stallions who never sired were leading the cavalry! Otherwise they kept climbing each other. It happened to me. I got so scared. I don"t think Interference human-horse, as you do it, matters. They know you are not a horse, so they continue to behave as horses. It doesn't seem to impact them.

[@StableHorseTraining]

True. I just finished dealing with one that literally told me I know nothing about horses. She apologized for being so brash, but maintains I don't know anything. It's so weird on KZbin as I have piles of people saying the opposite, but more importantly, I know I'm effective as can be seen in the videos which don't have a single cut in them and are done off the cuff. You can't train these animals to act out a scene, it just happens! Anyways, I'll keep working on learning for sure but I'm quite sure I'm more effective everyday and I believe it shows.

[@martineinfrance]

@@StableHorseTraining people who just pass by to judge are amazing. Most of the time they havn't go a clue of what they are talking about or if they do, they do not accept that others have different views. They think their method is the only one to follow, no matter how their horses may feel. They are always right and know everything. I call them the Internet judges! You do the right things, everybody here noticed how calm, truthful, good natured and well balanced in their minds, your horses are which is self explanatory on how you treat them. We 've never observed a horse tense, freaking out of fear, head up, pinned ears, scary eyes wide open, agitated body. These "I know everything " should be ignored, not even worth to invest time in replying to them. As a moderator on a GSD forum, years ago, I have seen so many hate comments among "specialists" of the breed and how to train them, that was really tough to handle, because in dog training, it's the same problem, maybe worst.

[@rinnp5354]

Are there any particular videos where you show them grooming each other? I’d like to hear more on what you have to say on that behaviour.

[@StableHorseTraining]

lots and lots. Any of the horsey playtime videos, anything in the arena. I think it's fantastic and I am always happy to see them cogrooming.

[@rinnp5354]

@@StableHorseTraining I’ll definitely check them out! Thanks for replying!

[@nickprehna9404]

How many horses do you have and are you thinking of getting more?

[@StableHorseTraining]

There are 7 here right now. Why do you want to know about getting more? That's an unknown at the moment

[@nickprehna9404]

@@StableHorseTraining I was just curious because horses there beautiful animals they really are and it just got me wondering because your so good with horses one of the best I've ever seen on KZbin, it just got me wondering if you had future plan to get more horses.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Thanks, I appreciate that. We'll see what the future holds

[@patsheppard2616]

Why do some geldings have no special interest in mares. Others act almost like stallions trying to run a herd. Keeping mares and foals where they want them. But still there’s no follow through when mares are in heat. They walk away when the mares come up to them.

[@StableHorseTraining]

No idea. It's currently under intense study.

[@irThumper]

Is she in heat? We were at a stable once where a mare had abnormal cycles and acted like she was in heat, constantly, and was dangerously reactive (like super bad PMS). The problem turned out to be cystic ovaries and they had to get her spayed. After that her raging stopped. (not saying Little Miss is raging, just wondered where she was in her cycle).

[@lorineidtinytoadplot744]

I suppose if they are in a field then separating them in a all girl and all boy field would make sense but I've only ever seen this if they have a stallion

[@janethouse1779]

Interesting how in amongst the squeals and half kicks, there is also some licking and chewing. (generally a good sign isn't it?) Wonder that that means in this situation?

[@StableHorseTraining]

I did a video somewhere about licking and chewing... but I have no idea where it is. When a horse does that, 99% of the time it comes right after a stressful situation. That action is the direct result of too much pressure, whether caused by other horses, or more, often humans. We do it too and it's the action of swallowing saliva that instigates it actually as the horse didn't have the "time" to do it before that. Not sure if that makes sense.

[@marthest-louis7128]

This is very informative. I happened by chance on this exchange. I know nothing about horses and by chance clicked on Think Like A Horse two years ago and it's a good thing I did because this is how I landed here in this wonderful place shortly after. I still click on It but just to see what is happening to his animals and the neighbours'. I skip over his extreme views. Many videos I never open because he is critical of just about everybody and in some he shows abominable cruelty that should absolutely be tagged with a warning. Although such abuse and cruelty exist, I can't imagine children clicking on these links. Those of you who have perused the thumbnails will know what I'm talking about . It's mindboggling that some of these have not been taken down. But he walks on water for a mostly female viewership, very strange. He rarely interacts with viewers, and his incessant rants in his mocking voice about women is downright pathological. I won't even mention his gun channel which I've skipped through on occasion. Mostly good folks I'm sure but not my interests and values. One horse video where I became incensed was his criticism of a Dutch channel on Fresian horses many of you are probably familiar with. Again I watch this channel for the gorgeous animals, the scenery, not sure How I feel about breeding farms but the one shown seems well run, but again my equine knowledge is next to nil. Anyhoo not bothering to read a bit about the background of the event shown he went beserk criticizing a video a sub had sent him on two farms' attempt at matching an orphan with a mare that just had a stillbirth. He was almost out of his mind screaming. Fortunately this time a large number of subs protested and he somewhat backtracked. I'm sure he had no experience whatsoever with this kind of situation as is probably often the case. So very interesting to read your thoughts about Gore and in future would be interested in your views on breeding farms, I'm sure it's a very mixed bag. Respect for all you do to save and better the lives of these wonderful creatures.

[@marthest-louis7128]

Just to clarify that the cruel disturbing videos I referred to above are not Mr Gore's but ones he selects to analyze/criticize.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Pathological... yes, I fully agree with that. Yes I recall the drama for Tara. Awful.. I always say that he'll come gunning for me one day and I wonder where everybody will stand at that point that support him and his pathology. Breeding farms should be shut down. Period. I don't support them one bit.

[@bobbacon1068]

It's a family, as in the wild!

[@arctikal]

Is that darker patch on the left side of Little Miss's tummy just part of her natural color? At first I thought she had just been laying on something wet but it looks like it's here to stay!

[@StableHorseTraining]

Moisture I believe. It has been wet here and every time she lies down it just gets wet again

[@AstraSight]

Mares and Geldings can coexist in a pen you have proven that especially in thr big gatherings where you havr most if your horses out, I think the issue would arise if it was an intact male that you know hasn't been snipped and it still thinks I'm a man these are my mares (over exaggerated but hopefully I got my point across)

[@normafollet7156]

As far as i know,when horses in the wild they fend for themselves. Male and female isnt that so? And horses are a caring animal toward one another, probably better than humans havent you noticed that? 🐴🐴

[@catherinewhite4313]

I wonder what is getting exchanged that we can't see....or only can't see because I don't know what I'm looking for.

[@normafollet7156]

All humans have different personalities Yes? So all animals in their spiecies also have their own personalities Yes? Just as humans do right( hope i made some sense in saying that! 🐴

[@StableHorseTraining]

Makes sense.

[@mieschiad]

Are you sure you won't keep her? She's a cutie!♥️

[@StableHorseTraining]

she's not mine to begin with :) Somebody actually owns her.

[@tinnnn1]

Do the horses ever get to graze in a field on grass?

[@StableHorseTraining]

Being that we are situated in the middle of a rain forest we do hand grazing. I've done a pile of videos on their feeding regime here with the haybags if you happen to be bored one day. There's a lot to explain in that regard, perhaps I'll do another video for all the new people popping in lately.

[@tinnnn1]

@@StableHorseTraining That would be awesome

[@debscott75]

I’ve had my mare in mixed herds and her heat cycles were much, much stronger - highly distracted, sensitive while grooming, urine dribbled down her legs requiring extra cleaning. Twice she’s been mounted by geldings - with penetration! She had been rubbed raw (I have photos) with hair loss on her back end. She also had a rib out of place per chiropractor after being mounted. All of this went away when she was placed in a mare only field. When considering if a mixed herd is successful, I’d look at a mare’s heat cycles, marks on a mares back and sides to indicate mounting, urine and “grunge” on a mare’s leg. Back and flank sensitivity during heat cycles. Don’t just look at behavior in the paddock.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Yes, I, guess I didn't make it clear that there are exceptions of course. It sounds like you made the right decision for sure.

[@debscott75]

It’s just something to be aware of beside the obvious herd dynamics. Most people don’t think geldings can get erections but they do. And my barn owner never saw the gelding mount my mare and didn’t believe me until I got a picture of it. And she was reluctant to make a change until my mare was rubbed raw. No issues with the other mares in the field. Just mine.

[@StableHorseTraining]

@@debscott75 it's a shame you were at a place that didn't have a lot of horse knowledge. We're ok here though, no worries. Thank you very much for sharing and being concerned 😊

[@debscott75]

Actually, it was a well established barn with 25 years of experience and by all appearances, everyone got along fine. I especially wanted to make mare owners aware how heat cycles can be effected. Many resort to hormone therapy when they could try a mare-only field first. Thanks for listening. Merry Christmas to you snd the herd!

[@elainetrindle329]

Which one would you say would be the leader of the pack

[@bobbacon1068]

Trying to figure out your accent? Canada

[@ellenbrooks8061]

Sort of an odd question here, if you or anyone else has time to answer: Can geldings still get erections? And if so, do they ever try mating with the mares while they're in season? I know next to nothing about horses, beyond what I've read in books, so forgive me if my question is common knowledge. ^^

[@StableHorseTraining]

Yes they do, but rarely do they try to mate anymore.

[@ellenbrooks8061]

@@StableHorseTraining Thanks for such a fast answer, I appreciate it. :) That's fascinating. I guess being gelded really takes a lot of the 'stallion' behaviour from them, then. The mares must appreciate having friendships with them, without their hormones getting in the way.

[@jandunn3075]

Little Miss has a noisy shake because she's got some jiggle in her wiggle...lol

[@catherinewhite4313]

Interesting how judgmental and pejorative the anthropomorphizing is. We tend to talk about kids and especially teens the same way. I don't think horses will ALWAYS work it out. I knew of a horse that had to be put down because he got kicked in the shoulder. His owner just bought him. It was sad.

[@kristacook4318]

Watch out that other weaker people are jealous because you are successful. Odd I know.

[@StableHorseTraining]

I've had a couple of people pop in to let me know I'm ruining horses by the way I train and making things dangerous etc. I too have come to the conclusion that some people will try to beat a person down to be at their level so they look better. It's an odd world!