Horten Ho IX Wunderwaffe "Wonder Weapon"

[@TrotzdemDeutsch]

2 Fehler in der Doku auf die ich gerne aufmerksam machen würde: 1. Die Me 262 kam zwar zu spät, aber sicher nicht in zu geringer Anzahl in Serie. Bis 5/1945 wurden 1300 Me 262 der versch. Versionen (auch als Nachtjäger z.B.) produziert! Wegen Piloten- und vor allem Treibstoffmangel konnten sie aber nicht mehr starten und wurden bereits am Boden zerstört. Nur JG 7, NJG 11, KG 54 u. JV 44 wurden ab Nov 1944 ausgerüstet - und schoßen mit d. wenigen Machinen in d kurzen Zeit noch ca 600 Bomber ab!

[@TrotzdemDeutsch]

The Me 262 (first operational Jetfighter), the Me 163 (first rocketfighter), the Ar 234 (first Jet-Bomber), the Fi 103, known as V-1 (first cruise missiles), the A-4, better known as V-2 (the first space rocket), the Wasserfall and Enzian (first eart-to-air-rockets), the Walther-submarine and the U XXI (first Electro-submarines with own oxygen-supply extracted from hydrogen), the Horten 229 (first jet-powered flying-wing-fighter) or the nuclear bomb - what to build with the the back on the wall?

[@OPE08]

@Snobiker13 - there wouldnt have had to have been many, since no production versions were ever made, and they wouldnt have had any reliable engines or trained pilots even if they had managed to crank out a few. Pilot training hadn't even begun by the time the warehouse was overrun...

[@hugobroch8837]

@doceigen: You did not win because you were better, but just because you were more. It was a fight quantity vs quality (a huge bunch of neandethal men against honourable soldiers), and the quantity won.

[@OPE08]

@OPE08 ...the Me262 did not have swept wings because that was the best way to build it to take advantage of its potential thrust. The Me262 had swept wings so that its engines and landing gear wouldn't interfere with each other. The other option was to move the wing roots which would have delayed the project. AND, the US was already, and pretty much only, looking at fighters with blended engine/fuselage like the P80, whereas the Germans were only coming back to that design...

[@Humbertusmarius]

This may be hard to swallow, but Northrop is currently working on a "baby B2", for which they actually built a non-flying copy of the Horten 229 to test it's radar footprint. It was recently featured in a documentary on Nat Geo. The 229 was also examined by Northrop engineers at the Garber facility before they designed the B2 Spirit.

[@AlejandroIrausquin]

@OPE08 I am highly "surprised" by the discussions that have aroused on this issue. As Aeronautical Engineer and, of course, aviation history enthusiast, I enjoy digging on the theme. In the past weeks, I saw in youtube the documentary Alas Argentinas, Reflejo de un pais (Argentinas Wings). In this documentary they show an excerpt of the Royal Aeronautical Society 1993 British Gold Medal Award to Raimer Horten, for his contributions, between others work, to the design of the B-2 Bomber.

[@OPE08]

* The turbojet powered Ho 229 V3 brought to the U.S. as part of Operation Paperclip for evaluation is in storage at the NASM awaiting possible restoration. * An example of the Horten IV sailplane is located in the "Planes of Fame" aircraft museum in Chino, California. * A restored Horten IV is also on display at the Deutsches Museum in Munich. They get credit all over the world, and from their peers, which is more important.

[@as12df12]

@USalltheway96: The Horten might not have been intentionally stealth (even though her designers later claimed exactly that), but it has been experimentally confirmed that it possessed remarkable stealth qualities by reduced radar cross section alone, resulting in an early warning time of less than 3 minutes for then-state-of-the-art radar technology. There was a National Geographic documentary on those experiments somewhere here on YT, but appears to have since been deleted.

[@AlejandroIrausquin]

Well, I am new to post comments on KZbin and it does seems that posting links is not accepted. Please search for the following videos. These are in spanish but the text in question is in english and highlited. It is the text from the RAeS 1993 British Award Medal to Horten. The videos are *DOCUMENTO HORTEN 1 parte* and *DOCUMENTO HORTEN 2 parte*. This is the 2nd part of my reply to @OPE08 which is not shown.

[@OPE08]

Hey Scoutman, do me a favor, if you can find any links or anything to actual interviews or articles with or about any Northrop designers or Engineers from any of the wing projects where they say that the Horten Brothers were ahead of them, I'd be interested in seeing them. I can't find anything like that anywhere. My Father worked in the computers and avionics section for the B2 Spirit, and he never even mentioned the Hortons to me! I discovered their work for myself in the 90's...

[@OPE08]

The UK and Germany were neck-and-neck in jet research before the war, Whittles engine was actually run four years before Ohains, the difference was that the Western Allies didn't need jets, so the projects were back burner. The HoIx that flew in 44 was a pre-production mockup, exactly like the N1M that flew in 41 was a mockup. The Ho229V3 was the first full scale final production prototype and it flew in 45. Mass production was impossible because they never finished, Gotha was ready in 43...

[@spottydog4477]

Anyone know which documentary this is from?? many thanx all great show

[@OPE08]

* Unrestored examples of the Horten III and Horten VI sailplanes are displayed at the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center facility of the National Air and Space Museum (NASM) in Washington, DC. * Two of the Horten's sailplanes built in Argentina can be seen at the Museo Nacional de Aeronáutica located in Morón few miles west of Buenos Aires.

[@Shiktlah]

Company was Campini Caproni and first plane took off in 1940 'cause blindness of Italy'ìs HQ. Projects date before 1928. Unfortunately the Campini Caproni project was abandoned due to lack of raw materials due to continuing bombing on Italy. In fact during war many italian engines were replaced by german engines like DB601B that equipped Me Bf109 and Macchi Mc202.

[@survivor194]

Shiktlah the Caproni of which you write used a propeller mounted internally and driven by a traditional piston power plant. As a little boy in the '50s I remember a model of a Mig 15 that used this idea. The glow plug engine spun a prop INSIDE the fuselage. It just looked like it was powered by a jet engine.

[@52111centrumcz]

@jamestaylor94b I would give them credit for one thing; the transistor. Its rather important, and it was developed in the US by people that were educated in the US.

[@OPE08]

Have you found the pictures of the 1929 Prototype yet? Have you looked up Avion?

[@fluffy1931]

@foiafrey the Mig 15 original design benefited from German research, but was conceived, designed, engineered, and produced by the Soviets. The Mig 15s jet engine the Klimov RD-45, is a reversed engineered British Rolls-Royce Nene.

[@OPE08]

Northrop, to the best of my knowledge, has never claimed that the Hortens were an inspiration. I'd be interested if you could provide any kind of evidence or documentation on that claim? An aircraft is not "based on" its propulsion system. The N1M and N9M were both prop-powered because thats what the US Army Air Force had asked for, for designs for a new twin-prop escort aircraft and a 4-prop heavy bomber. And Northrop completed the XB35 before the Hortens completed the Ho229V3...

[@deathbybulletsmg42]

Where r the subtitles???

[@zubagvatic]

is there an english version anywhere on youtube?

[@Klottelitsch]

Eine absolute Spitzenleistung 50 Jahre seiner Zeit vorraus!

[@OPE08]

@foiafrey - Granted, it would have been ridiculous, and thats exactly how things work anyhow. The problem is that many believe that the F86 for example was designed after the 162 or 183 were "discovered", which is simply not the case. The F86 project was begun in 44 as an Army version of the FJ1 Fury. Wikipedia, for example, claims that the F86 "used the Me262 wing design", which is stretching the truth at best. As the proper wing sweep was known from pre-war research, AND...

[@kneeslider47]

What a beatiful and deadly looking aircraft! I love it.

[@OPE08]

@codboguy You'll have to take that up with the museum. Was it nice? The museum here in my town is small, but lovingly cared for. Cheers

[@scoutman549]

It is time the Horton brothers get the credit and respect that they deserve.

[@0xMaster]

I find the film somewhat more agreeable than the description. As for better attributes -- do you have a source -- an earlier US successor, YB-49, was described as "the darndest airplane I've ever tried to do anything with" by a skilled pilot, who was later killed when it crashed. The Horten brothers were possibly doing as well as they could, but they were of course not doing a B-2 Stealth Bomber.

[@OPE08]

Do you know that to be true, or is it just what you believe? Northrop started Avion in 27 specifically to work on and produce a flying wing. What were the Hortens doing in 1927? Northrop built and flew the "1929 prototype", a single-prop testbed aircraft, in 1929. What were the Hortens doing in 1929? Northrop built and flew at least 5 N1M and N9M prototypes in 39/40. What were the Hortens building in 1940? The XB35 was complete in 1944/45, what did the Hortens have ready for production?

[@Patroni_Foxtrot]

is there an English version of this?

[@OPE08]

@Padgeify - It would have sat on the ground and been strafed by P51's. They had no fuel, no engines, no pilots. The proposed Go229 would have used the same engines as the Me262 but weighed as much as a Do117 medium bomber! How impressive would a Porsche be if it used a little Ford 4 cylinder commuter car engine and had its truck full of bricks?

[@lonetraveller80]

Anybody know a translated version (or at least subtitled) of this video series ?

[@cyberarmy007]

The Horten Brothers were ahead of the times.

[@scoutman549]

@ OPE08 : You should not discredit the Horton brothers because they were Nazi's or not on our side here in the U.S. They were very loyal and fought for what they believed in.They were decades ahead of Northrop and even Northrop engineneers, and long time designers admit that the Horton brothers were ahead of their company considerably.

[@JadeIsBunny]

I'm thinking.. would we have had a better chance to win WW2 if we used the Horten Hos? Ich bin am überlegen , ob wir eine Aussicht gehabt hätten , wenn wir die Horten Hos verwendet hätten? Unsere Truppenzahl wäre stärker gewesen und vielleicht hätte man sich nicht verzweifelt dem Bären in die Arme geworfen, sondern etwas schärfer nachgedacht..

[@markmuzenhardt]

@Buemmo Nicht ganz. Die P51 war der ME109 schon überlegen, besonders in Sachen Reichweite... Die ME109 war zwar immer ein gefährlicher Gegner, allerdings konnte sie weder in Sache Reichweite noch Geschwindigkeit mithalten. Deutschland hätte aber den Luftkrieg sicher für sich entschieden, wenn die ME262 rechtzeitig in ausreichender Stückzahl zur Verfügung gestanden hätte.

[@OPE08]

No, no Horten aircraft ever made it to production, and prototype aircraft don't fly combat sortie. The Horten V3 was the final, full-scale prototype and the war ended before Gotha could make a single unit. The Horten bomber was a paper fantasy, they simply scaled the fighter up 6 or 7 times and said "yeah, here, this is what we'd do" Germany didn't have engines that could sustain that long, nor fuel of metal to make heavy bombers.

[@OPE08]

You're wrong, you'll notice that almost no jets post-WWII up to this day have wing mounted engines. The Sabres followed the fuselage mounted engine design of the P80 and its predessesor the F1. And the swept wings on the 262 were an afterthought to fix an issue with the wheel placement, it was cheaper to sweep them than move the wing-roots. That is why they are NOT at the already known optimum sweep! The 262 was a dead end, Nazi pilots flew Meteors in Argentina after the war didn't they!

[@Snobiker13]

It would most likely have been useless as a weapon platform due to bad handling qualities in yaw. And there would soon have been enough Gloster Meteors and Lockheed P-80s around to hunt it down.

[@scythelord]

Of course. The B2 has little in common with this plane other than the whole flying wing concept. Different dimensions, wing shape, all around technologically different. It's like saying Lamborghini copied Ferrari because they too made cars that were fast...

[@OPE08]

And? What exactly is it that you are trying to "prove"? All I have ever said is that the Hortens weren't the first, and that they never finished an aircraft. But it occurred to me to ask you what you think you are defending?

[@OPE08]

Unless I am mistaken, he was given that award for the success of the two-seated glider he built for them which ended up being the first glider to cross the Andes. I don't see why The Royal Aeronautical Society would give him an award for an aircraft that he never had anything to do with?? Or that the RAS ever had anything to do with for that matter.

[@OPE08]

Not so much. Its hard to swallow because the producers of that particular show were more interested in entertainment that accuracy. Evidenced by the fact that they call the HoIX "stealth" when it clearly was not, and their conclusion to the episode was the claim that this aircraft "could have changed the outcome of the war" when it clearly could not have. There never was a "Go229" produced, but the HoIX has been available for study since its capture, Grumman wasn't the first to look at it.

[@OPE08]

So how many aircraft did the Hortens produce in their careers? The answer is none, not a single one. Northrop started Avion Aircraft Corporation in 1927 specifically to work on the flying wing concept, and produced a powered flying wing prototype, called the "1929 Testbed". 5 YEARS later the Hortens flew their first glider. So explain how the Hortens "inspired" Northrop, if he started 7 years before them? I keep asking, nobody seems to know...

[@OPE08]

Oh, and, ALL flying wing aircraft naturally have "rudimentary stealth" attributes because they all have a lower radar return signature. Thats not something the Hortens or Northrop made happen, its simply a benefit of the shape of the aircraft. And if you want to be picky the B29 was allready an "Intercontinental bomber" because the US had plans drawn up for flying them out of China to hit Germany. Thanks for trying to be serious rather than insulting.

[@Snobiker13]

@camposi That may have been true in 1971. But now you have Grob, and Germany is a partner in Airbus and Eurofighter. Just to mention a few examples. And Germany has always been the world leader in gliders.

[@OPE08]

@nethead4223 _ the b2 isn't a "copy" of the HoIXv3, the B2 project designs were completely computer generated at first, and I doubt the computers secretly snuck out to a bookstore and looked up "failed aircraft of the 3rd reich" to get ideas. The big difference is that Northrops work, from the 1929 prototype, to the N9M, to the xb35 to the yb49 was an obvious linear progression. Whereas the Hortens failed to produce a production aircraft, ever, except for hobby gliders.

[@MW2AVENGERS]

well said im also 14 forget my name im not that big in that stuff the wunderwaffe is translated to "wonder weapon" but it wasnt one weapon it was multiple vehicles, guns, aircraft, so forth and so on. the ones that we have all herd of and probably seen in a certain videos are the V1's V2's V3's etc. it really is just German enginering at its best the reason why they didnt win the war because they started using their "wunderwaffe" in the late months of the war and was to late. yes im also 14

[@OPE08]

I'm not in any way discreditting the Horten Brothers, they did some incredible work at a time when Germany was falling apart all around. At a time when thousands, millions of qualified men and women were dead, either fighting for the Nazi's or victims of them. You can say that they were decades ahead of Northrop, but its just an opinion, because you can't come up with anything to back that claim up. All I said was that the B2 Spirit is in no way connected to them, and I ATTEMPTED to show that

[@OPE08]

There is a vast difference between a four engined bomber and a tiny fighter prototype, The N9 flying wing fighter, which Northrop originally offered to the US Army in 1941 flew perfectly, and one of them is still flying air shows to this day 58 years later. The B1 is not related to the B2 in any way, perhaps you should "look up the facts" a bit? The fly-by-wire system is now used in every jet built, all of them using computer assisted stabilization...

[@MELLYMEDIA]

@sonbuhitsunei More evidence is being uncovered the bomb dropped on Hiroshima was captured German A bomb, The American plutonium bomb did not work until the Americans captured a U boat destined for Japan (read steel coffins) with the ignition circuits the americans could not figure out.

[@OPE08]

Ridiculous. So the wings that Jack Northrop had been working on since forming his own company in the 1920's had no bearing on the YB49 or the B2? Its just an odd co-incidence... The fact that the Hortens had access to every public photo and piece of info on Northrops work, while Northrop had zero access to Hortens work before 44. 5 YEARS after Northop prototyped the N9m?... Its called CONCURRENT development, and the Hortens benefitted from the war, while Northrop didn't...

[@racoon965]

I liked the dog.

[@doceigen]

"Nobody knows YOU!" Oh, I'm 'known' for my works well enough.

[@StefanR0]

Yes. Jack Northrop did 'just' copy the design and not the plane to be honest. But he had some problems it seems as his model needed a rudder/fishtail, not so the HO IX. And as I asked the Northrop company by mail if they know the HO IX they told me that they don't know it LOL LOL LOL :-).

[@F3D2Skynight2]

@valkyrie1960s People are still talking about the Nazi's partly because of the innovation in a lot of technology, but the primary reason is because you want to remember how a country can descend into a war machine hell-bent on genocide and extermination. You never forget something like that, because you want to make sure it never happens again. Von Braun got all the credit, but if you really study history, you'll see that other engineers had better ideas, and their names aren't mentioned.

[@Shiktlah]

I'm Sorry..I've forgotten Whittle and Heinkel projects...... and also french projects. Any way first italian jet plane took off in 1940 but projects date before 1928

[@tea789456123]

Type XXI Rocks!!!! :D

[@Ferrant621]

Actually it was to be ready by 1946, a mere one year after the war ended.

[@7171997007]

@jamestaylor94b well thats cool but the us can do something with it instead of starting wars only to lose them

[@DJODJOMusic]

@jamestaylor94b you call weapons important ? ...

[@Elgrande555]

Dude, there are decades between those two planes. Of course that you cannot compare them one to one....what they mention is the concept which has been used when building the B2. No doubt that the US is good in refining a brilliant concept rather then inventing one....

[@OPE08]

And, the second part of your statement? I am SURE that there were, and are today, MANY aircraft designers who are influenced or even helped by the work of teammates and even competitors from other businesses and other countries. That has zero bearing on the facts I am stating. Your second statement is certainly true, but it does not back up your opinions about the Hortens work. Also, I think its a bit sad you feel the need to say "reasonable".

[@gun_nerds]

@COMMANDERKEEN321 Wie weit die deutsche Nuklearforschung war ist bis heute ungeklärt. Wer wen genuked hätte lässt sich glaube ich nicht so einfach sagen.

[@OPE08]

The Me262 would not have "dominated" because it could not dog-fight, and if it could have the Allies would have stepped up the Meteor and P80 both of which were more reliable and could dogfight. Thats beside the point, IF they had it earlier the engines would have been worse. Its the "if" that is the problem, its day-dreams and wishes. Every IF can be countered by another if, like what if the F1 had been produced instead of the P80? If, if, if...its a game, nothing more

[@RealityCheckVR]

first off, I disagree with what the narrator said from 2:44 to 2:51 ... those aren't even real words..

[@Shiktlah]

If you go back since medieval ages then I remeber you that was Leonardo Da Vinci the first inventor of tank and first of him imperial chinese scientists......But I'm talking about first real operative tank durin a battle (in this case the battle of the Somme).

[@dewky1234]

northrop never copied the idea of the flying wing at that time in america northop had flying wing designs of his own that he test flew himself

[@F22RaptorSquadron]

The USA did not copy the actual aircraft. They copied a design for a wing that made the most aerodynamic sense. A flying wing design produces the best lift/drag ratio of any wing design. And Jack Northrop spent almost his entire career researching and improving on the design, eventually leading to the N9M, XB-35, YB-49, and THEN the B-2A Spirit.

[@cmreel]

no kidding. i am sure somewhere hidden is an f-22 like German prototype. the B-2 had zero to do with the Ho-IX, if you know anything about aviation.

[@SOLAR718]

i studied modern history at skool n from wat i n da book noes, an american prize agent jimmy robertson, fought in holland n were sent 2 investigate da HO-IX airplane n its technology. Jimmy successfully snuck into the airbase in Gotha by abording a german armoured train disguised as a german soldiers, his cover was blown wen he met da german general, sturmgeist, he luckily survived da ambush n firepower n successfully hacked into a a HO-IX system n left. the base was destroy by the allies

[@OPE08]

The 1929 testbed, N1M, and N9m all flew BEFORE the Hortens had their first Hoix. The XB35 was completed and ready for production when the Ho229V3 was still in prototyping. Northrop copied nothing, it was parallel evolution at best, and Northrops planes were ahead of the Hortens. Mostly because Northrop was a trained and successful designer while the Hortens never completed a single aircraft in their entire careers...

[@dad2ujunior]

What the hell did he say?

[@Shiktlah]

This only to say that , people has always taken ideas fron past inventors and scientists...

[@noodlesman12]

@VirikNavarro americans did a lot as well

[@S1nwar]

i must strongly recomment flight simulator il-2 sturmovik forgotten battles (available on steam) where u can fly all of these :p. the ho-229 while looking awesome is completety useless in a dogfight because it has 0 horizontal stability which makes it impossible to aim most of the time....

[@CaptHollister]

You know less than you think. The fact that the n-1m used piston engines is irrelevant, no matter how it's powered, the aerodynamic properties of a flying wing are the same. After ww2, everybody used the results of German studies: desperation breeds innovation and the Germans were pretty desperate... The "inspiration" Northrop drew from the Hortens is that a flying-wing with its engines blended into the wing can be made stealthy more easily that a conventional design. Ta-dah !

[@OPE08]

I said: "...the Hortens final prototype wasn't complete til 45..." And, if you look, you'll see that the Ho229V1 Glider, and the Ho229V2 jet flew in 44, but that the FINAL PROTOTYPE, the Ho229V3 didn't fly until 1945. It was the V3 that was the final, full-scale, production prototype that Gotha was going to build. And, finally, down-voting my comments so they dissappear is pretty cowardly.

[@kamikazeevil]

no wonder weapon is the direct translation

[@cartymoo]

i was hoping for somthing tht fires lightning and zaps people stood near each other :(

[@OPE08]

If, if, if, it gets pretty ridiculous after awhile. IF they had 2009 tech in 1915, what then?? most of the "advanced technology" that they had was the result of scattering their resorces into every pipe-dream plan that came along. and was pointless to the war. IF they had acted any other way they wouldn't have been them. On the other hand, the Allies stuck with what worked, CONCENTRATED their resources, and in many cases chose not to research or accelerate unnecessary programs...

[@jarodisawesome224]

@TurKlack ja, ich stimme

[@TurKlack]

@jarodisawesome224 ich werde heute jedenfalls durch den Grund besänftigt, dass wir immernoch die besseren Waffen bauen. bestes Beispiel: Heckler & Koch. Die UMP 45 wird hauptsächlich und in großer Stückzahl von Amerikanischen Specialforces genutzt. Das zeigt mir, dass die "Alliierten" nicht auf Deutschland verzichten können.

[@Arkanii1]

@bloobear1 True fact mate. Yes Benz is of course better in that way, but i am not so rich and i will never have money to buy a car like that:( So i like both of them because i had a Ford Focus RS for one day, and this car is awesome:)

[@Olivere118]

Germany has always been the best inventers in all wars.. when all others had front loader muskets the germans had K-98 backloader and loaded the weapon 15 seconds before the others.

[@stapler1212]

@korewyn Wow. Your like 8 right? Wunderwaffe translates to "wonder weapon" a fictional weapon thought to be in develepment by the Germans during WWII and also thought to be able to end the war. Some also believe it was a reference to their development of the jet engne. I'm 14 and I know this. Don't be a "COD fanboy" Have a good day. :)

[@OPE08]

Jack Northrop started the Avion Aircraft Corporation in 1927 specifically to produce a flying wing. They finished and flew the "1929 Testbed" before the company was bought out. The N1M and N9M were mockups submitted for consideration for the fighter and bomber that the US wanted. They were all prop-jobs because thats what the USArmy asked for, jets were not needed or wanted in 39, 41, or 45 for that matter. The Ho229V3 didn't fly til 45. you fail at internet...

[@jtom94]

it is unimaginable how advanced nazi germany was in science and technology. At least 20 years in aeronautics and rocketry . If the war lasted 1 or 2 more years i think the Nazi would have unfortunately won the war and we would all be fluent in German.

[@saxonsiphon]

Listen closrley for people who play Nazi zombies, you can hear the German guy say dr. Richtofen

[@Exodon2020]

@WingmanAlpha wäre sie so clever gewesen, hätten sie gewartet, bis diese Waffen zur Verfügung standen und dann durch bloße Drohung den Versailler Vertrag revidiert

[@blank2233]

wunderwaffe means miracle weapon

[@OPE08]

I've had little arguments all over youtube, politics, religion, history, all sorts of subjects. Its funny that it has only ever been so-called Christians and people from this thread who have EVER come to my page and left me insulting comments and PM's. I don't think people are fed up, I think they just don't like someone pointing out their mistaken beliefs. ESPECIALLY when they continue to fail to back up their own claims. What, exactly, is the "wrong data" that I gave?? please, show me...

[@xBiohazardx12]

why in german

[@SOLAR718]

yea it is decades between the 262 n da ho-ix. but think about this, da 262 was created afta ww2 n was created usin da top tech they have at that time. but then think this, if da 262 was created wit more high tech thn da ho-ix, but da americans resurected the ho-ix n sayin tat it is beta thn da 262. u obviously can compare both planes. since a plane created during ww2 is beta thn a plane created afta ww2, if u know wat i mean

[@OPE08]

HOW? How were they ahead? Do you guys really believe just because they were attempting to make a jet that they were "ahead"? They were attempting to make a jet for a country that was running out of fuel and metal, not smart, not in the least... And if they were ahead, how do you explain that the Northrop prototypes were completed in 40/41 while the Hortens final prototype wasn't complete til 45? just because...well...it was a JET!!

[@scoutman549]

Why is it you think EVERYONE is a little kid or gamer ?

[@Uberaoshi]

@jamestaylor94b I am sorry that was the Russians that copied the shit out of the Germans after WW2. US flying wing The American Northrop N-1M of 1940.[12] The American Northrop N-9M of 1942. The American Northrop YB-35 of 1946. The American Northrop YB-49 of 1947.

[@illusional1]

very true @mihaelmartinovic

[@faron27]

We fly around today in 40 year old GERMAN designs

[@uboot1967]

Wenn ich gut verstanden habe,haben die Allierten alles fertig gefunden......

[@MyMMC]

war er nicht... sie war zu schwer und man musste ständig angst haben das sie einem um die ohren fliegt.