Hotah II: The Envoy Q&A

[@MadManManderly]

I really liked that all the Dayne smallfolk had the same features as the Daynes. It works perfectly with the theme that all these special houses and bloodlines are bogus. Like some random peasant girl in Dorne has the same 'magical' features as Daenerys.

[@TobeWilsonNetwork]

I do like that idea. Small world, superstitious about eye color, etc.

[@WeirdVoyager]

That's not why they have the same eyes. They have those eyes because the Daynes have historically fucked the small folk in particular taking advantage of First Night privileges being a lord provides.

[@robbiethemann]

Instead of Storm Of Swords it should have been called Swordnado

[@alienman909]

I was the guy who made the “whoever’s in charge” comment before. I shouldn’t have been so critical. To hear you explain it, and then I reread the chapter, I see now how the line works fine

[@alanpennie8013]

Don't worry. You got a useful clarification.

[@20tifer]

I took the whole “his little girls” thing as him showing up to the villages looking for recruits and them unloading the unwanted girls onto him instead of the boys and him just being a pushover saying yes to the first offer. The whole time the small folk were talking about how he hardly ever taxes or bothers them made me think he was just incapable of telling them what to do.

[@alanpennie8013]

He seems about the beat lord a peasant could want.

[@thomaskallenbach8373]

Please name the Jon Con chapters Jon I, II, III, IV etc and come up with different names for the Jon Snow chapters. It makes no sense for Jon to keep his name, because he should be irreversibly changed by coming back from death.

[@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin]

I do like the idea of calling the chapters Jon. It's just that JonCon is rarely called just "Jon" in his chapters (just three times). He is almost always "Jon Connington," "Connington" or "Lord Jon." There is a similar problem when Areo Hotah gains his name. Do we call the chapter Areo or Hotah? He is almost always called "Hotah."

[@kreegalobunsen602]

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin He's Hotah when he has his axe, but he's Areo when he and the axe are ritually divorced. JonCon you can just call Petra since he's turning to stone.

[@gokbay3057]

I don't think Jon Snow will have pov chapters again (other than perhaps a Ghost chapter, where he is in the wolf until he gets resurrected).

[@lastEvergreen]

The Jon Snow chapters can be titled “The Wight”

[@AGuyWithAChannel]

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin As you say in Prepping for Winter, it's less about what the character is called in-universe and more about whether they feel they have "found themselves" or are "living their best life". Tyrion has gone by Yollo, Hugor, and a few more names - but it's always been "Tyrion" in the titles. If Jon Connington has made landfall with Aegon and secured Dorne (two things he certainly believes are true when this chapter opens, or at least when JonCon II opens), he may have "found himself".

[@fruitrings2238]

Preston, will you release your outline for TWOW if the real book comes out? It would still be fascinating to see what you had planned compared to what GRRM goes with.

[@meanmr.mustard3096]

Winds is not coming out any-time soon if ever; Preston will probably finish his TWOW first, in 5 years time.

[@TobeWilsonNetwork]

I wonder how hard Preston will stick to his outline, I think he might do a little gardening too…

[@bram_412]

If you're doing this, you've got to pour more into food descriptions. You get to start referencing the change of seasons a little more, and the economy

[@jherm123]

Can see the potential for a homoerotic Darkstar x Areo buddy cop story

[@Midnightsstan521]

GRRM reading this: dammit now I have to restart the whole book. Lemme grab red, white and royal blue for inspiration.

[@gregorybainathsah7284]

Areoh and Darkstar, on the search for where septas go

[@Droxal]

Better than Jamie and Bronn in Dorne

[@MadManManderly]

Honestly, Areo lusting after Darkstar whilst holding his Rainbow flag was perfect!

[@iliaponomarev1624]

Two buddies going to a female monastery - that's a potential for some Decameron story...

[@joshuaherbert30]

Doesn´t Euron also say protect me from the Crabs inside my belly? It´s kinda important because thats exactly what Hoster Tully said on his deathbed.

[@jcharlescarroll]

Euron is literally stomach cancer confirmed!

[@paulcato3434]

Crabs, Bats and Butterflies: A Gastrointestinal Taxonomy of Westeros

[@PG19871230]

Is that why Euron wants to be a god? To be immune to mundane death?

[@JELazarus]

@@fakenodj that's what I've always thought. I don't think it has anything to do with Hoster Tully specifically. World building.

[@kyleholmes8230]

You are correct. Sometimes I think Carmine is just trolling us when he does things like this. It's part of a whole series by Preston where he theorized that Euron had been visited by bloodraven or another green seer or maybe a glass candle because Euron also has that comment he makes to Victarion about flying.

[@howardbiel1958]

For everyone waiting on the edge of your seat for the next “fan fic” I promise it will come out before “A Dream of Spring”

[@capitalh1895]

I have a question: are you planning to use the "Asha fragment"? Or even expecting to use any of it?

[@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin]

Yes, the Asha fragment should be in the chapter when it comes.

[@capitalh1895]

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin interesting! I cant wait to see that, but that might make it a really hard chapter to write! Some of it is based on a grrm mad-libs! Could turn into gold tho...

[@skrutrekker80]

To defend the "5 guys defending castle" thing. This is in fact totally realistic, and in keeping with the size of real european medieval conflicts. Feudal warfare was typically small scale, and most castles were little more than fortified manors. The huge crusader castles or the masterful stone castles of europe that typically survive today are the exceptions, not the rule. If anything, one of the more unrealistic parts of GRRM's world is the huge size of armies. No european medieval lord or house, or even kingdom, would be able to muster 80.000 - 100.000 men. Yet a single house in the Reach (and their vassals) in Westeros is able to do so. Source: Me, someone who has read a book

[@peterv1054]

Yes, George doesn't really know how feudalism works. He is mixing up early/high medieval feudalism in the way society is ordered around vassallage, the rennaissance or even later stages regarding army sizes and movement and the 19th and 20th century about how people think. It's totally unbelieving that almost every character is either an atheist or doesn't care about religion while religion was an essential part of everybodys life in medieval times.

[@ormurin6441]

I think preston takes the "dragon means war, war means wait" a little too literaly. war means wait as in "if there is a war going on we will wait and see who wins" and dragon means war being "if there is a dragon in westeros we cannot wait anymore" make more sense to me.

[@NA.NA..]

What is the plan if WoW comes out. Obviously if it does come out the fanfic becomes irrelevant. However I really enjoy where your taking the story. I can't imagine DoS ever coming out, and a DoS fanfic would be awesome. However I imagine your quality writing is a product of a decade of marinating on this story. If WoW does come out is there going to be a contingency plan for the fanfic or are we going to wait till the 2030s for a DoS fanfic or are we just waiting and seeing and crossing bridges when we get to them

[@muat1155]

I would assume the FanFic would be finished. PJ will have hours upon hours of new content to dissect the real WoW. There would be no need to continue as there will be the real thing to analyse and create content from and extrapolate where the stories conclusion is heading in DoS.

[@nickmozzetti327]

it will still be equally relevant, or irrelevant

[@frank_6298]

It will have been good practice for when he has to to write the Dream of Spring fan fiction lol.

[@cheeselover626]

Slighy Devil's Advocate on the name Storm of Swords: it's the book where autumn is in full effect. You have the torrent of rain the Starks deal with on the way back up to The Twins, Balon Greyjoy "falling" off a bridge in a storm (offscreen), etc.

[@alanpennie8013]

Nice catch.

[@johnappleton3446]

If you’re curious about who keeps watching your time traveling bran series, it is I. I like listening how you tie the threads together as to how George might do time travel going on in the series.

[@muat1155]

I often rewatch many Preston series. PJ’s Brienne, Danys page of lies and the Nights Watch series are great to go back to (along with time travelling Bran of course)

[@emilysanders104]

Preston's videos are my comfort shows.

[@NukeMarine]

I recommend that series to people on the subreddit as it's one of those ideas that just makes sense when you take all things as a whole, especially when it came to Bran's coma dreams. Much like Dornish Master Plan it just makes you rethink where the entire series is going.

[@Jenvick]

Can you put the Fan Fic Q&As in a playlist?

[@theletterm5425]

32:10 I feel like Preston has really misunderstood this use of "words are wind". The Maester says: "Words are wind, you know, and you've blown mine away with your good sense." So Davos has blown away the maester's words with his good sense, because words are just wind. The powerful thing in this exchange is Davos' good sense, not the words spoken by the Maester. Also, just to add, this isn't actually the first appearance of the saying. The actual first appearance is in the Prologue of ACOK, and it's actually spoken by Davos: "Well, as to that, some gave me soft words and some blunt, some made excuses, some promises, some only lied." He shrugged. "In the end words are just wind." So it would be even more strange to have the first appearance of the saying imply that words are meaningless, as is the case in the quote above, to then one book later turn around and imply the exact opposite, especially since both scenes involve Davos. I really think Preston is just misinterpreting the maester's saying.

[@PurpleAlogia]

I think George has his fake medieval lingo from mid century popular history books. It’s not like he’s an expert or sat in the archives for decades deciphering how people really talked to each other. The dialogues we get in these historically inspired narratives shouldn’t be taken seriously as being archaic. That’s not why they’re made and it would be unreadable und uncomfortable.

[@DurvalLacerda]

“What are words... just complicated air flow.” - Kendall Roy

[@philipjoyce8817]

Sorry Carmine but the best line is from the Northern Clan guy talking about dying with Bolton blood spraying on his face and tasting it on his tongue. You all know the one....

[@SHARKVADERS]

PJ IS BACK FOMOS

[@ser_ryon_vine6392]

In my mind, I think about how the Bloody Baron in Witcher 3 had like 10 guys, so Darkstar only having five works for me lol

[@tylerruddy5444]

Preston tuned Areo into my favourite character

[@LincolnMaurice]

A Dance with Dragons should be A Prayer for Peace or something

[@81caspen]

24:10 I have long thought that the great houses paid the Citadel for their maesters. An engagement fee. Some poor lords and knights are possibly permitted credit underwritten by the Faith. Others are too proud, tight, or cautious to assume the debt. I suspect Darkstar as of the poor and proud variety - if my theory is true.

[@MrSilvUr]

Can't white ravens also fly to multiple castles? Like aren't they super smart and able to go to three or four places or something?

[@chemputer]

We actually don't really know how they work. All we know is how black ravens work, and that white ravens seemingly aren't raised at the castles like black ravens are as Shireen was raised by Cressen and she had never seen one before the Fall white raven came. Black ravens just "fly home" to where they were raised. Some rare ones can learn two or three castles, and once a century there are ravens that can learn names of 3, 4 or even 5 castles and fly to them on command. (This is from the Theon sample chapter) White ravens have to work much differently, perhaps they are much smarter and can be told where to go, (but then why would they not just use those for every message? Would be much more useful, nothing preventing them from doing this, unless they require constant training and/or very specialized Maesters?) Maybe they can just find castles, or perhaps they just release a SHIT TON of them and 1 out of 100 hits a castle, so they release loads of birds so that every castle gets at least one. There has to be a reason why they're different, don't work the same as black ravens, and why, if they are superior to black ravens, they aren't just used instead of black ravens.

[@graytown82]

Davos calling stannis out for being an oath breaker to his face is right up there with Euron

[@Jordan-zl4pn]

On the language being “too modern”- Tyrion thinks about a/his “butt” at least twice, as does Bran. George absolutely uses anachronistic language!

[@alanpennie8013]

It's impossible to avoid it when there are so many damn words.

[@herbertschulz4313]

Fanfiction hotah is a far more engaging character than grrms hotah

[@sihollett]

GRRM!Winds Hotah will have his own story, just like PJ!Winds Hotah. Feast Hotah is literally just a watcher to others stories and so not much of a character.

[@herbertschulz4313]

@@sihollett but still, hotah was already a pov in two different books, but i was more invested in all of the prologue and all epilouge characters than hotah

[@sihollett]

@@herbertschulz4313 but still? I'm agreeing with you. And explaining why: because he's more camera than character. He has nothing to do in his chapters of FeastDance but watch (literally called 'The Watcher' in a chapter title). He's given something to do at the end of his last published chapter and should become more interesting.

[@herbertschulz4313]

@@sihollett yes i know, but that does not make him in any way interesting

[@sihollett]

@@herbertschulz4313 He might not be interesting in GRRM!Winds, but being a character doing stuff, rather than a camera watching stuff almost automatically improves the interestingness of Hotah. And even if he goes from not-interesting-at-all to 1% interesting that's still 'more interesting', even though he's still not actually interesting.

[@WhoIsCalli]

Loving these, keep them up

[@Borgcow]

I think GRRM’s use of modern and archaic words/phrases is a huge strong point- enough to make it feel medieval overall but punctuated by stronger, more relatable lines when called for. I mean, he drops the f-bomb constantly, he’s not having people tell each other to “fie thyself” or w/e

[@seth410]

GILBERT KING

[@chemputer]

I don't think we even know of 300 castles, carmine. Edit: We have precisely 196 Castle names in the books according to the Wiki, and 243 Houses. Honestly, for "notable" houses, that seems like a reasonable number.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

Make em up!

[@chemputer]

@@OfficialRedTeamReview We have 196 from the books according to the Wiki. So we'd only need to make up 104. There are 242 Houses that we have names for from the books. Yeah, I don't know. That's 243 Houses including House Summerchild of Summerfell in the Reach. So that makes 197 castles.

[@bobbystones9612]

Stannis’s Proudwing speech enters the chat

[@classicdansmith]

Very concerned for Myrcella hiding in Oldtown considering the history of smuggled princes during the Dance

[@Tennis932000]

I would say that a castle with a moat would have more defenders than a mere watchtower, but i agree that the banners were called and a small castle with a moat like this will have few defenders.

[@joshhoffman5233]

The message George is conveying, accepting the not great human being behavior by Arthur Dayne, is a comment on the code of chivalry more than the guy himself in my view. Letting him get a second 🗡️ may seem like bullshit to us but that’s the code that Arthur is praised for following. And that’s what George is giving us

[@CaptainTimeStories]

Did Hotah kill Obara? I was introduced to that theory and absolutely love it.

[@Tennis932000]

My first time reading it thats what i thought, because right after Hotah said “No. Choose.” Obarra was dead. It was because of his choice she died, or thats what i believe anyways.

[@muat1155]

PJ stated that he purposely left it open for the reader’s interpretation. That it could be interpreted that way, or it could be seen as a mercy kill as Obara was going to die eventually from the internal injuries caused by Balon Swann in the previous chapter.

[@catlord760]

Re: the Maester & raven conversation, we've already had a situation where a non-Maester handles ravens- Clydus and Sam.

[@donaldjgumpofficial5754]

And feathers from the Arianne chapter.

[@munken7673]

When will there be some Stannis?

[@joshhoffman5233]

A storm of swords may be a play on”reaping the whirlwind. I think refers to the chaotic period to close the war of five kings and that leaves Westeros a corpse for crows. It’s the phase where things got way out of control from the standpoint of the main players. Whereas is CoK it’s the big factions fighting, SoS has the bloody endings that are messy (wedding murders, Tywin dying), usurpations of the lords paramount in the river lands and the north, weakening of house Lannister. The rise of outlaws. Prob more examples

[@PurpleAlogia]

Also: how are maesters funded? Can they have private property?? Is he payed by his lord?? Or does a lord get one from the citadel and pays them? Once? Or a regular hiring fee? It’s confusing because real life monks are kind of a mix between septons and maesters. What would speak against them having a couple of gold stags and dragons on the side? Why aren’t there maestras?

[@manband20]

iirc the hightowers cover a lot of their expenses, but also iirc there is a fee that is paid by the Houses who ask for a maester, which effectively covers the cost of training them

[@chemputer]

The Maesters aren't paid, they're essentially a servant to the Lord, they provide room, board, and funds for anything the Maester might need (some of which he might request from the citadel, such as poisons and drugs) I don't know if they have private property, I don't think they're supposed to (aside from journals and job related stuff -- Luwin was big into astronomy, for example, the Myrish lens that came in the box that hid Lysa's message to cat, etc.) but much like the celebacy oath being broken it probably isn't that rare for it to happen. In the Theon sample chapter Maester Tybald is wearing a nice bearskin pelt over his robes, which might be considered a personal possession? Maesters aren't supposed to wear finery though.

[@espalier]

i think GRRM is leaving lots of this intentionaly vauge. but i think the scholar in Mereen who asks for the right to sell himself back into slavery shows us that Maesters are either indentured servants, or Slaves-of-the-Realm.

[@Patrick-wv5wp]

Roughly how many of GRRM's manuscript pages would you say you'e done so far?

[@pry87]

Historically the vast majority of castles were little more than a fortified tower and even a larger castle could be defended by surprisingly few people. Five men-at-arms for a disgraced landed knight seems high if anything.

[@Borgcow]

Uh wait a second, did Carmine edit the speech he claims is the best? Doesn’t he say “succor me”? Lol come on Carmine the word doesn’t mean what you think 😂

[@jswagaudio]

Can redteam stop rushing throught every single question. Like add your input once in awhile instead of rushing the whole qna

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

I didn't rush through them, in fact I cut out several seconds of dead space to allow Preston more time to answer in case he paused. It seems like it was rushed because I cut out the dead time in editing. As for my "input" I've answered this a hundred times before so here it is, again: This is Preston's project. I try not to, nor do I want to have any input on it. It's his thing and it should be just that. That being said, I did have input throughout this and previous videos it may not have been a lot but try listening next time?

[@permiebird937]

In the Queenmaker chapter Arianne thinks about Darkstar as being "highborn enough to make a worthy consort." As the heir to Dorne, knowing the feudal status, makeup, relative wealth, and alliances of every important house in Dorne would be a foundation of Arianne's education. She would be unable to rule Dorne without knowing this information. When considering Arianne's thinking about Darkstar, in Queenmaker, this fanfic Darkstar has been made far too poor and friendless for Arianne to think he would be a worthy consort. A worthy consort would need to be the Lord or Heir of the lands and castle, anyone less would not be worthy. Darkstar could be the heir, and just currently be out of favor with the Starfall Daynes, because Doran is after Darkstar, but the larger Dayne branches should at least have a working relationship in general. It's possible that the High Hermitage Army is being led by the Starfall Daynes. If a High Heritage army is a no show for Doran, the situation for everyone at High Heritage would be perilous. Doran has called his banners, so all the able bodied men should be with the High Heritage war leader in the Prince's pass. It would be understandable if Darkstar was laying low at home because of the Queenmaker adventure, but that army needs to be there in the prince's pass, or it will be big trouble.

[@PG19871230]

"I am an excellent jouster, I’ll have you know." That is all you need to know.

[@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin]

How is a landed knight period worthy of Arianne’s hand? That’s GRRM’s fault. Not to mention Drey thinks himself worthy and he’s not even a landed knight.

[@chemputer]

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin I think the simplest answer is just that Arianne has very bad judgement. On the other hand, maybe it does make sense that a Princess would want a consort that specifically *isn't* a Lord or heir, as then there's inheritance issues, their vassals likely wouldn't take kindly to the Martels scooping up loads of land that way. With a Prince, they can marry a non-inheriting (non-firstborn) daughter who would almost certainly be lower standing than a landed Knight, aside from the relationship they bring with their House, strengthening bonds with important vassal houses. Also, Doran married a noble woman from Norvos, "for love", so how does she rank? We don't know. She certainly didn't help strengthen any ties with Dornish vassals. If Quentin were heir and he thought a hypothetical Darkstar sister would be consort material, would he be wrong? It'd strengthen ties with House Dayne, even if it's not the main branch, they're still Daynes, and close. Randa seems like decent material even though she's a Junior Royce. Frankly, I could see it either way.

[@iliaponomarev1624]

Well, in the real world, female heirs would normally marry a dude from a somewhat insignificant house who doesn't stand to inherit anything...

[@PurpleAlogia]

Speaking of disposable women. That’s really an uncomfortable concept to hear about. They would also work the fields?? Raise kids? Fish? Garden? And they would make a hell of a lot of clothing. They’d weave, spin, sew, embroider, fix clothing. Recycle clothing! Sell stuff. Simply said: so called disposable women would work. All the time. Yes, all classes.

[@peterv1054]

It's about disposable noble women, peasant women aren't disposable as long as they are healthy.

[@alanpennie8013]

Louisa. Spinning, spinning, and spinning. According to Bret Devereaux' blog spinning cloth was incredibly laborious. Weaving was a doddle by comparison.

[@PurpleAlogia]

Spinning, and then weaving. But also in terms of class: the term lady comes from bread making. Do you really think that high-class ladies would be disposed of if they still could bake, cook, grow and pick produce? They did the same in nunneries. If you’re a lower class noble it would’ve been an honour to serve the higher-up noblewomen and to learn from them and their courts. I think “disposable women“ is a bit of a misnomer. And then came the witch craze.

[@espalier]

didn't Beric die all the way when Stoneheart rose?

[@espalier]

by which i mean, wouldn't it be the Thoros faction and the Stoneheart faction?

[@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin]

@@espalier Thoros is in the Stoneheart faction. If Beric is truly dead, it’s likely Greenbeard who would take over the other faction.

[@bshaddo]

Brothel or nunnery? Did PJ just accidentally do a Hamlet?

[@Zainiology]

Preston has clearly never listened to rap. Rappers are constantly talking themselves up

[@LiverpoolfanINchina]

We learn from Arya that George loves to write tomboy characters

[@matthewbryan9020]

Yeah in The Sworn Sword Ser Eustace runs Standfast with Ser Bennis Sam Stoops and Sam Stoops' Wife Before bringing Dunk and Egg in... so we see him running Standfast with 6 people including himself but before Dunk and Egg joined team Osgrey Standfast was run with only 4 people

[@Sannspoof]

Wouldn't the fact that there are 300 white ravens that have been trained to fly throughout the kingdoms mean they aren't rare at all? There would always be one in the rookery being trained Edit: and then you instantly bring that up, lol

[@iamnotagoose]

Preston has unspoken rizz 5:01

[@alienman909]

A Storm of Swords IS a lame and dorky title, BUT what if the “Storm” refers to Danaerys Storm-born? The storming of the Dragonstone to the sounds of clashing swords. That’s the best I’ve got 🤷‍♂️

[@alanpennie8013]

The anti - Stoneheart faction sound like Robin Hood's Merrie Men, except with even sillier names.

[@stephaniec9539]

Hyle Hunt did save Sam from drowning probably against Randall wishes

[@warrior316]

If hulk hogan dropped the leg dark star wouldn’t have a chance

[@DaHansWars]

Even if Grrm does finish the book, I'd like to see Prestons vision finished aswell.

[@Venom1846]

I always had this overly nihilistic idea that Doran is performing the last of his great schemes by killing off his family (I.e. Sandsnakes, Quentin being sent overseas, Arianne going into the heat of battle) because his heart died with his wife leaving him and his siblings dying. He just wants to enjoy his last painful years in the water gardens.

[@connorm4145]

That just seems like such a waste of establishing his character though

[@Kaknamenuss]

"Swampy Meg"... I got it! They are in Myr!

[@TobeWilsonNetwork]

28:58 So hype, Areo and Darkstar meet the Carmalite Nuns

[@WarWulf778]

Cool 👍

[@jewsco]

Dance of the Dragons only seems like a bad title if you think it refers to only actual dragons and not people with dragon blood like Danny , Jon and possibly Tyrion or fake Aegon and what they are doing

[@paulbarry3400]

Exactly right. The whole book is about genuine, fake and hidden Targaryens and their actions. Almost half the book is about Dany or people trying to get to her. Then the title makes perfect sense. Great title, imo

[@joshhoffman5233]

Finished making TWOW videos when? Whenever you feel like lol. And let’s hope he does publish the book and all this fan fic is good practice for DOS

[@a.k.summers5633]

It's going great. Looking forward to each chapter. Just a thought tho. I feel like you guys are going down a route were the Aegon invasion fails, and Aegon thus probably turns out to be fake. But going by Lemon gate theory, so is Daenarys, which I guess you sorta have to go by, Preston, being Preston :). Which leaves John. Now, I wouldn't mind each and all of them being of different lineage than Targaryan. I think that would fit well within the themes of Asoiaf, as well as George's writing. However, I do fear lessoned impacts from each reveal due to repotition. Thought?

[@itzfifson6140]

Look i love Hotah an athang but come on lets get to the battle of Ice!

[@FrostTHammer]

Thinking about stuff before he does it. Is this an aspect of how Hotah is written differently than other characters?

[@ormurin6441]

just a small thing- a hermitage is not a place for hermits but for weapons and armor.

[@permiebird937]

I checked Webster's dictionary, and they call a hermitage, a place where hermits live. Where does the weapons store definition come from?

[@alanpennie8013]

@@permiebird937 God knows! Maybe he imagined it.

[@daarioforel]

aren't the dragons in A Dance with Dragons the overarching Jon, Dany and Aegon plots?

[@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin]

A dance is when people react to each other in movement. Those characters don’t even interact.

[@daarioforel]

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin Other characters around them 'dance' with them though. It's not the best title but I think that's what it was meant to refer to, i.e. why George felt he could keep it when it was intended for Aegon v Dany. But what would be a better name?

[@FrostTHammer]

There needing to be such a large number of ravens make it pretty unlikely that Darkstar would be out. Might it work better if they've simply no rookery?

[@jonttopia]

It's not really weird or unlikely that high hermitage would be out of ravens. Everytime you send out a raven you need someone to bring them back from that house, so if you only have 5 men in your employ and is a fugitive that might not be very feasible to do. He would have ravens that fly to high hermitage but those are useless.

[@FrostTHammer]

@@jonttopia well no - now that Darkstar can affix Hotah's seal to any correspondence, any raven is quite valuable Based on the logistics of what Preston outlined for keeping a rookery, it's almost impossible to imagine running one without a maester. I don't see a need for the rookery to be there, unless I'm missing something

[@chemputer]

@@FrostTHammerYes, you are. The castle can have a rookery (it would make little sense not to have the building in a castle) that's just unused and empty. Also, with a little training, you can send your own letters. It's simply writing the letter (many lords are illiterate), attaching it to the right raven for the place you want, and sending it off. Sam picked it up pretty fast. As Feathers and Clydas are evidence of, non-maester Raven-tenders are also a thing. Yes, they're valuable, I guess (assuming Hotah even has a seal), but again, Darkstar has to get ravens from the houses he wants to send them to, as well as maintain them. Kinda difficult to do when you're poor and an outlaw, with very few men. He'd essentially have to send a rider to get a raven from wherever he wanted to send the raven to, anyway. I imagine smaller houses would have only a small select few ravens that went to places that they communicate with regularly, as well as several for a larger castle that can act as a sort of raven mail "hub", receiving then forwarding the letter to the intended recipient. It cuts down significantly on how many places need large rookeries with numerous birds. So, say Darkstar only had Ravens that went to one place, given the location, may as well be the Citadel. Write the letter, politely write an additional letter asking them to forward it to Sunspear or Winterfell or wherever, and bam, very simple rookery that takes very little training to operate, just a literate person and the ability to tie the message to the raven, basically.

[@FrostTHammer]

@@chemputer so your second paragraph kind of answers your first. There's much more to running a rookery than simply writing letters. The problem you ascribed to Darkstar is not new. This problem is a constant My statements are very general, it's obviously possible to run a rookery without a maester but it would be very expensive. From a financial perspective it makes no sense to me to get rid of the maester but keep the rookery. Admittedly if this were to happen, it's entirely plausible that Darkstar would end up with no ravens. The Hotah's seal part also leads on to your point regarding hub station. Here I was responding to the comment that said that Darkstar probably has tons of ravens to go to the one place. I was assuming that one place would be Starfall and due to Darkstars situation they wouldn't be inclined to forward any messages from him. Hotah's seal would change that The hub station idea is interesting, I'd have to crunch it around in my head a bit to give you specific thoughts. My initial thoughts are a little more theoretical. It does make sense that something akin to this would evolve organically, and in our modern world it makes complete sense, but that hasn't always been the case throughout history. For us it's all about scale but knowledge was much more a limited commodity. I'd lean more towards Westeros reflecting older attitudes, but wouldn't be surprised if a mixed system was use As an example, the North in winter. Hub system or widely dispersed maester's? I really don't know tbh