House of the Dragon Season 2: A Son for a Son REVIEW w/ MauLer and RK Outpost

House of the Dragon Season 2 Episode 1: A Son for a Son REVIEW with ‪@ryankinel-rkoutpost1‬ ‪@MauLerYT‬ and ‪@Fringy‬
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[@_SimpleJack_]

I'm confused, I just watched a very well written, acted and filmed TV show which I thoroughly enjoyed while none of the actors or directors have have attacked me because of my skin colour or sex...

[@87Montana]

embrace It while u can. It will be a very rare experience In the future im afraid! 😢

[@peterg9729]

Not well written when they race-swapped the Velaryons and completely fucked over the Targaryen bloodline. Aegon I is now Black. Jaehaerys is now Black. Alyssane is not Black. Viserys I is now Black. They've cast an women to play a male Admiral. Except that woman is a MAN pretending to be female. Wokest show on TV but apparently having a couple of good scenes makes it OK? Never give them an inch! Fight the Culture War! Give in to wank over dwagons! Pathetic!

[@thefunkslamdunk9224]

I just can't belive that anymore. You must be imaging it lol.

[@TheMaleRei]

You know there are many out there who are fuming and plotting to try and change that, viz-a-viz the cast, the plot, the executives, via everything...

[@henriklarssen1331]

Is it GoT Season 1-3 good? If yes i think i give it a chance.

[@C.J_the_Goat]

A diverse cast, including a non-binary actor and gay characters, two women leads. But no discord about fans being bigots or racists. Interesting. It’s almost like everyone enjoys good shows and movies, regardless of who is on screen.

[@proudsaiyanprince2651]

Diversity quota Corlys is still cringe af

[@matthunter983]

thats because wokeness is becoming the norm

[@RPGAMING]

It fits the story tho ​@@proudsaiyanprince2651

[@Mj-pr2zb]

@@proudsaiyanprince2651it was stupid that they made him black but the actor is quite good and his race doesn’t get mentioned. That’s enough for me but I understand why certain people just still can’t stand it like you.

[@C.J_the_Goat]

@@proudsaiyanprince2651 I don't agree with the 'cringe' commentary, not sure where that is coming from. I don't follow any actor interviews or behind the scene stuff. Just let the product speak for itself. He is a good actor. The raceswap is what it is, and good on them for incorporating it into the story in an interesting way.

[@markgregorygacosta531]

The power of Ryan! The Power of Mauler! The power of Garyyyyyyyyyyyyy😂 Hail!

[@JJ-52]

😂

[@kwazhims3lf]

..... The power of fringoid?

[@don.keebles]

*loud moaning intensifies*

[@markgregorygacosta531]

​@@kwazhims3lfthe power of fringyyyyyyyyyy😂

[@nicolasbascunan4013]

the new episode sucked

[@hazeleyees]

The Chat - Mauler is spoiling it Mauler - How can I? Its nice having streams like this back 😂❤

[@accidentcellar6307]

I think they mean he's spoiling it by asking too many questions, so he puts Ryan and Gary in a though spot.

[@justlivin2499]

Ewan Mitchel is such a talented actor, looking at how he played Osferth in the Last Kingdom and then seeing how he plays Aemon in this displays so much range that not a lot of actors can pull off

[@TealWolf26]

*Aemond, I know it's difficult to keep track* He's spectacular to watch and try to peer into his thoughts.

[@ComradeCommissarYuri]

They probably cast him as he’d already learned at least some sword craft in lady kingdom

[@semaxwell1]

Baby Monk yae

[@casualrider983]

barely even recognized him

[@seanmcfarlane9911]

when they broke it down about house of the dragon season 1 costing around the same as the acolyte i had to check, under 20m per episode for 10 episodes for hotd and 180m for the acolyte which is going to be 8 episodes. Its actually insane the gap between these 2 shows and lucasfilm have the sheer fukin hubris to claim people hate the show cuz of sexism and racism

[@Semeyaza]

Also, HotD episodes are basically double the lenght of Acolyte's ones... so you have roughly 10 hours of content for HotD and barely four for The Acolyte. If you think about it, it's insane. Where the hell did they put all that money in Disney?

[@willbeard4835]

​@@SemeyazaDisney has been money laundering via star wars since at least boba fett

[@gezenews]

@@Semeyaza And if anything in HotD it feels rushed. There is not a moment I'm left feeling like "cmon, get on with it".

[@lucyfaire1980]

I am glad that they silently but surely distanced themselves from the GOT series by mentioning that the dragons refused to pass the Wall. It's book lore accurate now

[@cosmictreason2242]

Was that book lore? Did it say why they refused?

[@christiankremer7440]

No , it didn't. Silverwing (Queen Alisans Dragon) actually flew past the Wall but returned shortly after , and that frightened the Queen because the dragon never refused an Order and Dragons aren't able to speak so ...🤷🏻‍♂️

[@poe-master-6913]

@@christiankremer7440 You are lying. Silverwing refused to go over the wall. "Alysanne attempted on three occasions to fly Silverwing north beyond the Wall, but the dragon refused and veered south every time. Alysanne wrote to Jaehaerys that she was troubled by the fact that Silverwing refused to fly over the Wall, despite never refusing her commands previously. "

[@jackj9816]

@@christiankremer7440what’s even cool is she played it off as the dragon was just tired or something cause the whole castle black was watching and she had to keep up the idea that she was in control

[@Gregory-Peck]

They're not distancing from GoT Daenerys pass around the wall by eastwatch

[@Go_n_shogi]

There was a shocking lack of guards outside of the queens quarters.

[@rl8259]

I assume since she’s fucking Criston Cole she told them to leave for some privacy

[@rl8259]

@@pbradics3670 This is a show about dragons leave ur realism in the back of ur mind

[@rl8259]

@@pbradics3670 Like I said the Queen obviously told them to leave as she needed privacy to hookup with Criston Cole

[@Kyles_Money]

​@rl8259 Nah this argument is dumb. Just because we have magic and dragons doesn't mean common sense in environments and situations need to be tossed out the window. This argument never made sense to me. It's a cop out. And this show has done a pretty good job on keeping the realism

[@Elmonsoon]

In the book, Blood and Cheese had to kill two guards who were with the Queen. Honestly, though? Not a huge deal to me. None were with Alicent. So, two total - and no others near enough to hear. But.... there are tons of guards in the Red Keep, it isn't insane for them to not all be standing around that high up in the Keep, in 'private area' of the royal family. However, there was one guard on duty in that area - Criston Cole.

[@Small-Chap]

I could listen to Gary and Ryan about lore and all possibilities for hours. And especially when Ryan talks about lore. Hes awesome.

[@stephengazzola1025]

Aemond telling criston Cole, the queen speaks with 2 tongues was priceless 😂

[@TealWolf26]

I "Oooooooh...!" 'ed.

[@obsidian....]

The ease to which Blood and Cheese made it to the heirs was disappointing. The book made it so difficult... . I also hope that Cris was supposed to be on guard and that comes back to destroy both him and Alicent

[@antraxxslingshots]

imagine having a show that good that there is an actual discussion stream about it after... to enjoy it as a community and celebrate it... and imagine telling everyone those exact guys can't like anything and only get joy out of hating stuff for clicks.... how dumb must they feel?

[@samwallaceart288]

Well GRRM is a "problematic white guy" so they get to just not think about it

[@leiana_yt]

14:28 To answer Mauler's question, in episode 10/S1, Rhaenys states she will personally patrol the blockade. She doesn't really give Rhaenyra a say or asks for permission. Based on that, Rhaenys would be unavailable & thus Rhaenyra sends Luke. She chooses Storms End for Luke bc it's closer/short flight & she (wrongly) assumes he'll be met with fanfare & safe conduct, since they share blood. She couldnt have known the Greens sent out Aemond/Vhagar to that same place & the BS that would ensue, which led to his death. BOOK reasoning is probably simpler: It's just what Jace says earlier, "dragons fly faster than ravens," & so she sent her boys out.

[@jackj9816]

She also didn’t account for the storm. If it was clear weather he would have seen vagar was already there and he would have been able to outrun her later

[@alexschittenden]

The show is so good at setting up future plot points. I didn’t read the books but this franchise sets up stuff very well. The fact that this episode was about a page, is crazy.

[@jaxzor]

it was not about a page m8... only the last scene is in the book, the rest is made up bs xD correction, Cregan Stark "introduction" was also in the book.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@jaxzorthat's what he means. They only used a page from the book

[@jaxzor]

@@cosmictreason2242 yea..that's not accurate as well.

[@colinmclean2409]

Still woke garbage and you do not see it

[@azryalz4721]

@@jaxzorthe book isn’t even accurate btw. Its a historical text written by (multiple different) biased accounts

[@voidis]

In the Alicent / Criston bedroom scene (around 1:07:00) it’s also interested that two nights when Cole is on guard a major tragedy happens like with S1’s fight and Aemond looses an eye and now a child is dead

[@gunnar6674]

That is just a main character issue - if an unnamed guard is there, it's less likely to be important.

[@Isaac_5.56x45]

Kinda surprised you didn't have Dan Vasc here for the review as well. We all know what a big fan he is of HotD. Ya know, being ghey and all....

[@gnog1]

Haha it's just like when the people in the video says it!!! XD

[@sadukar_7th_legion]

Game of Thrones was the only intro I never skipped.

[@StayFractalesque]

Its different too, despite being a second season, they came up with a decent riff on the iconic opening with the threads and the blood, where-as in GoT, it was pretty much the same Intro across every season.

[@RAZGR1Z]

@@StayFractalesque It's funny because they actually spoil some of the story beats in this new opening.

[@cosmictreason2242]

ENT is the only outro i never skipped

[@playthehighnote1122]

I never skipped Star Trek TNG

[@aleksandarrankovic9308]

I never skipped the daredevil intro

[@frankvandorp2059]

1:10:15 I think Gary is wrong there, in the books Laenor was killed in a market square and they have his body. There is no ambiguity that he died, only the killer's motive is unclear.

[@jackj9816]

And his lover disappeared at the same time so they assume he killed him sense he was a skilled knight

[@govinddas7876]

I mean there are ways to still make it make sense that Laenor is alive in the books but that would be a stretch

[@misstayliana1]

There is no way Aemond would admit that he lost control of the dragon. Cole is a simp & Alicent has now realised the men hold all the power & she’s at their mercy.

[@Jalapeno_Chorizo]

Happy Fathers Day and Fuck the WEF!

[@kenshinwarriorX]

House of the dragon. Aegons conquest. Remake game of thrones. Been saying it since hotd was announced

[@BodHopkins]

Does nobody mention Damon specifically tells blood and cheese to kill the one with only a single eye, names him, and warns them he is a good fighter? He didn't say random son

[@Rounderyathecruel]

He did ask what to do if they couldn’t find him. I don’t remember hearing the answer. Also they found the queen, they couldn’t exactly let them go and continue on

[@BodHopkins]

ah, you did mention it later. Ignore my comment :)

[@Kyles_Money]

For sure. But these guys are idiots and the unanswered question is also in play

[@blondymonk1535]

@@BodHopkins Blood & Cheese were talking about the head of "A SON". They never mentioned Aemond again. And they were overjoyed when they found the kids. So obvious that Daemon told them afterwards to kill "a son", it doesn't matter which one. They would get payed if they brought the head of "A SON", is also what they said.

[@BodHopkins]

@blondymonk1535 mm. I thought maybe they were just so stupid and a bit stressed by the situation that they forgot the specifics

[@franciscooctavius5957]

The set of this show is laughably, epically light years ahead of what other studios are putting out right now. And the writing is perfection. Not even a comparison.

[@sugdendingles]

blood and cheese was a pg-13 let down

[@stephenpodeschi6052]

George has hinted that he has written over a thousand pages for Winds & Dreams....His problem is pulling all the story strands together without expanding it......I think Winds & Dreams will be released pretty close together.... Now thats positivity for you...........But do not sue me if I'm wrong.....lol

[@jtomos]

At this point IDFC. Ask Ryan Condal to complete the story. His screenwriting is very good so far.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@jtomoshe's still only working with existing material to adapt though right

[@jtomos]

@@cosmictreason2242 like Gary said: the episodes cover very limited sections. So if George gives him the plotpoints he wants, he can make up the story.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@jtomos well now you backtracked to saying George is needed. After saying ryan could do it without George (implicitly)

[@samwallaceart288]

Basically he knows it's shit

[@trimreaper7947]

This is a show with 2 female leads and a diverse cast. Where are all the "toxic" fans putting it down? I thought we were all racist sexist homophobic assholes 😂😂😂

[@Super_Ammo]

Chris Gore proves himeself once again the Harriet Arbinger of whats to come. xD

[@sithlorddarthbong4959]

Ryan in the thumbnail is fucking hilarious 😂

[@hkaayaakuu]

Amazing

[@samwallaceart288]

He's one of the very few people who can pull off a soyface

[@constcarry]

F's in the chat for 'good rat' meme reference

[@crackbane1330]

Bigideas would have liked it

[@thesaltmerchant4564]

Bigidious* ​@@crackbane1330

[@merkn1ght]

F indeed

[@cosmictreason2242]

Oretty obscure. What's the or l reference?

[@constcarry]

@@cosmictreason2242 efap 48 around the 39 minute mark

[@smithno-mates2341]

B&C was botched, and to me it shows how much damage the industry has suffered in ten years. There are just too many things interfering and meddling that prevent a good and faithful adaptation when it's needed.

[@DianeCee57]

Too many sensitivity readers & blue rinse types thinking the audience can't take really f-ed up stuff when everyone outside the wokesters on X loves that stuff.

[@saelind73]

@@DianeCee57 I just read a comment,in another video, saying "You're supposed to root for Rhae. And if she gave the order people wouldn't love her and taker her side." As if this story is supposed to be good guys vs bad guys, or a football match, with two teams that you have to pick sides.

[@SolarDragon007]

​@@saelind73Rhaenyra doesn't even order Blood and Cheese in the book, Daemon does. They didn't even have to make her look bad in that moment and they still pussied out on the scene.

[@billsmafia2473]

What more do ya want, are they supposed to show them cutting off a kids head?, besides making her chose between the younger son & the heir… it was fine I thought

[@SolarDragon007]

@billsmafia2473 I hated that they removed choosing between the two sons, how minimal they chose to make Heleana's reaction, and that they end the scene with her walking in on Cole/Alicent. They could've cut away from the act itself to Heleana screaming in horror/crying after seeing it happen.

[@emk3485]

29:12 There IS a godswood in King’s Landing because Sansa goes there to pray and that’s where Ser Dontos arranges her rescue.

[@leadleghighkick104]

No weirwood tree though if memory serves

[@camrn_brian]

I think Blood and Cheese was fine. As a book reader I do view it as a missed opportunity excluding the Sophie’s choice aspect. Overall it’s gruesome and effective enough to drive the plot forward. Guess will have to see since it is still episode one.

[@lewishamilton537]

Mauler talking about his dad is so real. My parents aren’t really into their lore and just watched the show as it came out no questions asked (honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t understand all of it) And even they were mega disappointed about how GOT ended

[@TheMangoDeluxe]

Blood and Cheese are the Merry and Pippin of Westeros

[@eduardpista1487]

I liked the episode and 7/10 is a perfect rating, but I was a little dissapointed by the ending since I read the book. But I'm so excited to see the dragons and especially Vhagar and Vermithor in action. Looking forward to your reviews of the rest of the second season.

[@LivingGhost1]

They could've achieved the same effect of not actually showing the death but still had it be way more impactful if Helaena had to make the choice and chose Maelor who should've been there but then Cheese grabbed her, covered her mouth so she couldn't scream and was taunting her while Blood cut off Jaehaery's head instead. Just have the camera focus in on her face as we hear the sound effects similar to the scene from GoT where Ramsay "beds" Sansa and Theon looks on in horror.

[@leiana_yt]

Sorry for all the specific replies 😅 BUT Mauler 43:52 EXACTLY!! I rant about this in my video. The writing for Rhaenys reeks of "writer's clairvoyance". She does & says things in universe than make no sense other than the writer's want her to make these points. & this extends to OTHER characters she interacts with (Rhaenyra & Alicent, mainly). Not ONCE is she remorseful for her stupid stunt in the Dragonpit & she's so smug in episodes 9-10 & yet Alicent is all "you shouldve always been Queen over Viserys"; even Rhaenyra compliments her...even tho Rhaenys DOESNT bow (twice!) to acknowledge Rhaenyra as Queen. But it gets overlooked bc of reasons. 🙄 Daemon is the only one to truly call her out, but he cant ever get the "upperhand" bc the writer's wont allow it. I admit that they are (hopefully) building up to a certain event regarding Rhaenys, but I maintain that it will depend on HOW they handle it/what context is it under...& considering how they fumbled B&C, I dont have high hopes.

[@ashfordafful9300]

B&C was well done in my opinion. I don't want to see a child being beheaded on tv, the sound alone is enough for me. Helena did good, pointing the boy was clever because as she guessed it will be too easy so they will go for the boy brilliant.

[@govinddas7876]

so you know the event coming up. and you're still mad about what they're doing with her character? i think it thematically makes sense.

[@hashkangaroo]

@ashfordafful9300 It's still highly regarded compared to how the choice was done in the books.

[@milan99cz]

Peak is back

[@hobomaster6237]

they didnt lock the door , now thats what i call EPIC Bad Luck

[@LikelyXboy08]

The biggest issue so far with the series is that they keep taking away important moments when characters choose to do something (usually murder), but then make it an accident. The funny thing with blood and cheese is giving Helaena the appearance of a choice - but the murderers choosing their own victim - would've been way better then a direct choice from her. As for intent; Aemond should have killed Lucerys because he wanted to. These important character moments keep being undermined by 'accidents.'

[@mr.joshua6818]

I agree with Helaena, but I kinda liked what they did with Lucerys.

[@Pietaster]

Establishing shots as they changed location/scenes were amazing

[@Justice-ian]

With "Blood and Cheese" you talk about killing one or killing three, but the confusing part to me is that it doesn't seem to be about numbers. Daemon says "a son for a son", but he isn't talking about _just any_ son; he's talking about the Aemond, the one who killed Rhaenyra's son. He describes him as distinctively one-eyed and warns them he's a skilled fighter and hard to kill. Then they don't even bother trying to look for him specifically, and I'm not sure why.

[@drgordo112]

Isn't it nice that a setup episode can generate a three-hour conversation instead of hours of vitriol bad writing causes? lol

[@martinkafka9510]

Ryan Velarion present, this is going to be good.

[@vipersb1]

I liked the episode, but the Blood & Cheese scene was a big flop. Underwhelming knowing what it should have been.

[@edwinsuijkerbuijk5106]

I wonder if this is the best they could do. If you would have to chose between then scene as we got it now, or a version closer to the book but everybody says it is spoiled by bad child acting what would you go for? They way they did it now you have 1 less child actors in the scene, non of the child actors have speaking lines and no hard directions to follow like " you have to look shocked when they say your mother wanted you to die"

[@doctorajaguar]

​@@edwinsuijkerbuijk5106is not about the children, is about the terror and emotion from Helaena and Alicent. Everybody loves Helaena and like Alicent. What happens to them is impactful. No child needed in that scene actually. Just the dialogue and psichological terror.

[@leiana_yt]

A missed opportunity with Blood/Cheese, so many elements of what made that moment a MOMENT weren't present: • Helaena's impossible CHOICE. If the writer's thought infanticide was the "shock value" of the Blood/Cheese moment, they're wrong & showing they don't understand the source material. It was more about Helaena's choice, an impossible one for a MOTHER to make, but she's forced to do it, even after pleading for them to take 𝘩𝘦𝘳 life instead (something Show Helaena doesn't even offer to do??). Even without Maelor, as the "spare", this moment as the show did it with just the twins could've hit harder if Helaena was forced to choose which one to sacrifice VS just point out which one is the boy 🙃 • I know it's been forever ago & most of us are blocking out GOT, but GOT had a scene with a mother/baby getting unalived. When Joffrey ordered all of Robert's bastards to be killed & one was a baby. They cut the scene, just showed us the mother's horrified reaction... NO ONE in the fandom wants to actually see a child/baby unalived or beheaded. What's not seen is sometimes more powerful, same thing here. & I'm just pointing out GOT show has done this before & MORE (Burning Shireen, stabbing pregnant Talisa, ETC). I get that we're going with Helaena is "different" or on the spectrum & she hasn't had a "normal" response to ANYTHING, if you watch her in S1...but still weird to not have her be more impacted in some way, esp since she "sensed" something would happen. • Alicent not being present. This one is more minor overall. But it would've been the better call to have her gagged/bound & watching this unfold, helpless to stop it, as in the book. Alicent already feels uneasy, guilty & helpless over what Aemond did & this is a clear act of vengeance for it. It just reinforces for her all the "doom" she's complicit in bc she crowned Aegon. Having her get dicked down by Criston instead feels disassociated from everything else going on. Overall the episode was a 6/10, but it could've been a solid 8-9/10, if we had raised the stakes & stuck closer to the book/lore. ALL of the ASOIAF books pull zero punches with its characters & events, it's a shame/disappointing the show does.

[@DianeCee57]

Absolutely spot on, this is an f-ed up world & it appears that the show runners/writers pulled their punches & it was a bad decision. They could have had one of the most talked about incident on TV in years. I mean no one talks about any show & this could have sent the show stratospheric but they blew it. You had 2 years of build up & even if most people did not know Blood & Cheese they still turned it into something that felt under-powered. Does not fill me with hope for the rest of the series. Saying the show is better than anything around is not a high bar any more.

[@stryyker9]

she offered her necklace though.

[@lukedarks1272]

I m seeing a lot this criticism from book readers, can you elaborate in what you mean when you say that haelena didn't have to make a choice? Because to me it seems that she had to make the choice, and she did when she indicated the boy. But I didn't read the books so maybe I lost some passages

[@DianeCee57]

@@lukedarks1272 She had to make a choice between her 2 sons. She chose the younger one because he wouldn't know what happens, but they end up killing the eldest son. Have a look at Alt Shift X's breakdown of the episode he explains what was supposed to happen in detail vs what the show did. The bone of contention is that what is written in the book is way better & far darker than the way the show did it which appeared diluted. Plus the show in s1 had rats in scenes & so many saw this as foreshadowing Blood & Cheese & they kind of bottled it.

[@vipersb1]

Very well said. 👏

[@acendiatmedia8747]

The impression I got when Helana pointed out her son was that she wasn't choosing. In her mind, she was just pointing at the one she knew they were going to kill. It's kind of a brian scramble as she wasn't sure it was real or a vision. I think they she needed more scenes in this episode to better establish her mental state before hand.

[@Leelllau]

Loved the episode, but totally agree the Blood and Cheese scene was fumbled. They could have done SOO much more with that scene and still remained true to the books. Even if they had cut to black and cut the kids head off and we just had the audio....I don't know😂 ... think their hands were tied as you say. Such a legendary scene it's a shame for it to not give it the attention it deserved! But the rest I thought was good plot building and intrigue. Definitely made me excited for the rest of the season! Thanks again guys love these streams ❤

[@edwinsuijkerbuijk5106]

I think it might be for simple logistics reasons. Child actors are always a hassle. This way they have less child actors, no speaking lines for the child actors, and no hard directions to follow like " you have to look shocked when they say your mother wanted you to die"

[@Leelllau]

@@edwinsuijkerbuijk5106 also very true! 👌🏼

[@starlord157]

I never read the books and I thought the blood and cheese was awesome and extremely disturbing. It left me feeling uneasy just like Luke’s death last season. I’m sure I’m not alone with that feeling.

[@stryfe0]

I found it to be a lil underwhelming

[@fernandosimon5621]

We didn't need all the squelching...jeez

[@brianb152]

You would have enjoyed it more if they had stuck to the books version. This version was nothing compared to the impact of that

[@edwinsuijkerbuijk5106]

@@brianb152 The question is if we would. If you stick to the book scene you now need child actors that can portray emotional reactions to the events as they happen. Child actors have always been problematic. With the scene now there is 1 less child actor, none of the kids have speaking lines and no hard directions to follow like " you have to look shocked when they say your mother wanted you to die" If you would have to choose between the version we now got in the show. Or A version closer to the books but everybody saying it was ruined by the bad child acting. What would you go for ?

[@AdoreYouInAshXI]

@@edwinsuijkerbuijk5106who cares? Give me the version closest to the book. People have been using child actors for years that are accomplished. It’s far from impossible. They just didn’t have the guts to commit, just like they didn’t have the guts to make Luke’s death intentional. The show is clearly trying to tone down the shock and violence.

[@waxwars9183]

Olivia Cooke revealed that one 'animalistic' sex scene was cut from House Of The Dragon as she stunned in a sexy ELLE cover shoot on Monday. The actress, 30, who plays an adult Queen Alicent Hightower in House of the Dragon, said the 'messy as f**k' take was scrapped and admitted that while it wasn't a 'beautiful' scene it was 'really fun to do'.

[@mixelplik]

Oh I would like to say that outtake!

[@TheLittleCan]

I really disliked this episode. The morning of Luke dragged. And the ability for the rat man to get through the castle and into the rooms at night so easily was bogus. Where were all the guards... no one's guarding the rooms... what...

[@alexandersmatrala7641]

Finally I found someone else who sees that! Everyone here is bitching about them changing how Helena choses the child to be killed, but no one mentions how the whole thing didn't make a lick of sense! No guards guarding the royal floor, no kingsguard guarding the queen and the heir to the throne. There is no way to justify this, especially since the greens know they're in an active conflict. Even if the books described the event the same, it's still shit.

[@TheLittleCan]

@alexandersmatrala7641 yeah it's painful. There had to be some dialogue to explain they are short handed or something and maybe that could make it easier for them to get up there but once they get up there, there still should be guards at the doors... so maybe they have to talk there way around it. Idk. All I know is it was very convenient, which game of thrones in its prime never was.

[@TheLeadhound]

Think about this: If the assassins were slightly more professional or had different motivations, they really could have killed the king. They are just allowed to walk through the throne room while the guy is drunk with his friends. If the assassins were black fanatics that did not care about their own lives or had the promise of money going to their families, they could have sacrificed themselves to finish Aegon while he was cornered on the Iron Throne. The whole assassin plot needed to be worked out a bit better.

[@alexandersmatrala7641]

@@TheLeadhound and, additionally, the fact they let rat catchers come through tunnels without vetting them is kinda silly too.

[@TheLittleCan]

@alexandersmatrala7641 especially at night like that lol.

[@darrellludlow]

The problem I often see in CGI is when huge creatures move around and don't shake the earth. That dragon crept down the hill, but the guards remained motionless.

[@a.r.mproductions5616]

I didn't like the change they made with blood and cheese compared to the book. Don't get me wrong, it's still horrifying what happens, but it isn't as messed up as what happened in the books. Especially how it fks ups poor Helaena.

[@nicossbots]

you must be sick in the head if you wanted to se a full of decapitation of a kid. ppl complaining that it wasnt traumatic enough must be gore lovers

[@beden653]

We haven't seen the results of this scene yet, Although I myself did not have enough emotions from Heleina. Maybe she knew what would happen, but still

[@gnog1]

They chickened out

[@konstantinekalandia1138]

Nobody would like to see 6 years old baby getting rpd..but "remember, your mom chose you" line from cheese would be nice touch

[@archietall2339]

It's a little disappointing, I get it. But I can understand show Helena not reacting the way book Helena did.

[@FNownATzz]

What made the scene unbelievable was how Helaena was so calm with her voice and how she moved while grabbing the kid, running away and going "The Killed the Boy." She showed more emotion when she tells Aegon "What if he doesn't want to be king?" The biggest excuse I hear us "She's autistic!" So apparently autistic people can't show emotions now? That is no excuse for how they took away her choice and made the whole scene underwhelming. What is the purpose of her being autistic to the plot aside from representing the viewer? You can have a character be quiet, strange, have her head in the clouds and still be upset at her own child being murdered. Being shocked and unable to process emotions didn't work.

[@samwallaceart288]

She's dissociating on autopilot. She isn't calm at all, she's in shock and trying to keep breathing. Knowing autistic people they either snap or they shut down under extreme stress; in this scene she's focusing on just enduring the next 10 minutes. Between the way she thinks and how sheltered she's been her whole life without any practice standing up for herself, this is exactly how I expected her to react; froze silent and running for mom.

[@fizgak]

I disagree, it's an appropriate reaction. It could go either way and yes women tend to be more emotional than men, but there was nothing wrong with the way she reacted. She was in shock and she did not want to draw attention to herself for fear she might be killed next. I have an autistic nephew and he reacts very little to anything. It just depends on the person.

[@jjs69544]

Both the Greens and the Blacks are evil and supposed to be 'grey'. But to me it seems, from seaon 1 the writers have picked Rhaenyra as the hero with "the power of diversity" on her side and Alicent as the villain.

[@osas2kul]

Too early to tell really

[@nicoleelbin9701]

It's sort of the point that George wanted to point out the hypocrisy and misogyny of the Hightowers and maesters who write the histories. This is a patriarchal society. But I wouldn't say that any one "team" is seen as heroes or villains ultimately because thinks go downhill very quickly.

[@moe5020]

bruh the blacks just committed baby murder how are they the heroes?

[@gnolrevilo]

Ryan is great in this podcast. Really knowledgeable.

[@samwallaceart288]

He really rounds out Gary and MauLer

[@SpankMyFace]

This was a great stream to watch. Everybody got to speak, and there wasn't a bunch of needless screaming (ehem, FNT) I really like Ryan when he does these longer breakdown streams, he actually knows his shyte. Got a taste of it with 'The Star Grift' podcast he did with Mauler and SWT, and I wish he did these more often.

[@martinkafka9510]

Yep, Ryan knows his GoT stuff, which he demonstrated in HotD season 1 discussions. As a fellow book fan I am always excited to see him in these panels.

[@guyincognito1406]

FNT at least let’s me stay connect with who I enjoy a watch and who KZbin decides to arbitrarily unsub me from… Also 4 vs 10 iunno, I can see why it’s more ‘intimate’ to your point.

[@C.J_the_Goat]

I agree. Az rants get very annoying and repetitive, I usually just scrub through when he gets going.

[@edz1624]

FNT is bombastic which has an appeal on it's own that I still enjoy, which is the rowdy table atmosphere. That's why Gary/AZ does Real BBC (which is my preferred) because it is like a comic book shop. Drinker's Open Bar is just, a couple folks at the bar with a pint. Mauler's EFAPs, I enjoy when I really really want to break something down I hate or love. They are the folks sitting in the corner plotting world domination.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@C.J_the_Goataz is way better on the real bbc, open bar and rip and the silverback

[@dilluminatilair]

Fans really overhyped the blood and cheese so it’s no wonder that it was a letdown. Even if they followed the book exactly it still would’ve been a let down to me I think

[@fakecubed]

I avoided spoilers and enjoyed it thoroughly when it happened. Then I looked up the spoilers for the scene, and I'm glad they made the changes they made. I didn't need to see what happened in the book, and I'm disturbed so many book fans apparently wanted to.

[@SolarDragon007]

​@@fakecubedThe book scene is far better in terms of both logic and emotional impact.

[@edwinsuijkerbuijk5106]

If they followed the book exactly the child characters would have to do a lot more in the scene. And there would be a big chance it would be worse than what we got with the history of how bad child actors tend to be.

[@SolarDragon007]

@@edwinsuijkerbuijk5106 They would just have to look scared/confused.

[@mariia099]

@@SolarDragon007is it rly better in terms of logic though?

[@alejandromacias8004]

I cant believe no one made a joke about Sophie's Choice, or, er... Helena's Choice?🤣

[@shushinfushin1312]

I have to say, overall great episode, but the actor for Jacaerys stole the show imo. Surprisingly powerful performance from such a young actor in just the few minutes he was in, especially the scene where he, despite just flying back from the wall after finding out his brother died, tried to fulfill his duty to the queen before allowing himself to seek comfort from his mother.

[@govinddas7876]

yeah his voice crack in that scene got me

[@johnniiee146]

I'll add to the various sarcastic and bittersweet grumblings: light on source material and still compelling? But but Dan & Dave already proved thats not possible!!! Its almost like self important forward looking hubris instead of an impassioned focus on present already deeply rewarding circumstances makes for better writing???!!

[@albireo1533]

Finally some good fucking tv

[@BOLDBANGER]

yeah right

[@BradleySherlock-n4x]

There is no such thing as good TV any more.

[@Darkstar_Dayne]

​@Opener73 You need to get a life and learn to enjoy things

[@WeirwoodNet]

​@Opener73copy and paste

[@Darkstar_Dayne]

​@Opener73 That slop is getting to your head and it's stopping you from enjoying when something good comes out

[@bulbasaurbrutal5137]

They should've just called this episode Sophie's Choice.

[@TealWolf26]

Son for a son was kinda spoilery in the title. I would have preferred just to call it Blood and Cheese. I'm surprised they didn't honestly.

[@nont18411]

Stabbing a pregnant lady to death HBO: ✅ A boy, who’s one of Arya’s friends, got stabbed in a throat and choked in his own blood HBO: ✅ Burning an innocent child with greyscale as a blood sacrifice HBO: ✅ Having a spoiled brat choking and crying in his own blood after being poisoned HBO: ✅ A boy getting shanked to death by a zombie HBO: ✅ Hanging a boy because he helped stabbing Jon in the end of season 5 HBO: ✅ Poisoning a girl which caused her to die in her father’s arm HBO: ✅ Meanwhile, killing a boy in HOTD HBO: “Oh no! Child murder is wrong. This is too far. We have to self-censor this scene and end the episode with the tonal whiplash Alicent sex scene.”

[@marywinchester1322]

Hollywood is very fickle when it comes to what they think is appropriate.

[@logiconlifesupport1899]

Ahh, the good ole days

[@DianeCee57]

No doubt the sensitivity readers came in & kyboshed Blood & Cheese. The whole thing also with Alicent banging Cristin, was unnecessary & it just reads like fan fic.

[@SolarDragon007]

Ending the scene with Heleana walking on Alicent and Cole having sex was such a stupid fucking change.

[@DarksideGmss0513]

No that's not what they mean. They didn't want to show a child being decapitated on screen. As it would have traumatized the child actors. It makes sense. Because not everything is going to be 100% from fire and blood as that book is riddled with unreliable narrators.

[@theodenkingofbrohan]

I wanna see a Tywin story but showing the Reyne Tarbeck revolt

[@danielleeskelton]

That would be great.

[@christophergirardi8145]

Call it Lannister Follow Tywins exploits through the Ninepenny Kings and end it with the reynes of castemere.

[@cosmictreason2242]

⁠haven't we learned? The writers need to be as intelligent as the characters they're writing

[@waxwars9183]

I watched Netflix punisher season two episode 1 and 2 again just remind myself what 10/10 tv shows are like. I thought a punisher black widow movie would have worked and a new xmen movie with new actors and please retire hugh jackman.

[@hobomaster6237]

gorge RR Mauler DDDDDDDDDDD damnnn

[@Elricsedric]

I have just finished house of the dragon and caught up withe the new episode, I've never watched Got before. This was so amazing

[@ViolentMessiah666]

Wasn't expecting a wild Frongol to appear, the Green Men rarely leave the Isle of Faces. I thought the episode was.... ok, solid setup but they totally softballed Blood & Cheese which was disappointing and could have negative impact on the rest of the season depending how they handle the aftermath. Did like how they introduced Cregan & I think he'll be popular if they don't botch him but still not sold on the Aegon actor, something about him just isn't clicking for me. Totally with Mauler on the Aemond actor, he's right up there with Matt & Rhys for me. It can never be as good as early Thrones because the source material is significantly weaker plus any show without Stannis is automatically lesser 😂

[@DefaultAnonymousDS]

They could easily do season 6 to 8 again in a new story. They can call it The Long Night and Beyond, or some dumb shit like that. Not focus so much on The Game of Thrones but we can get some stuff resolved in that story while telling more of the story after GoT ends.

[@getyamoney4171]

Both the boys lost control of their dragons, and truthfully had the dead boys dragon not blew that his fire at the giant dragon , he wouldn't have got eatin

[@BradleySherlock-n4x]

Your standard's are broken from watching so much trash fellas.

[@JJ-52]

What are you watching?

[@crazyfingers619]

Maybe so, still enjoyed the heck out of it.

[@sarov7658]

I didn't like it but I'm not a big got fan either anyway shi is trending with 500k on twitter so it's very popular rn

[@Darkstar_Dayne]

You hate LOTR dude why should we care for your opinion

[@sarov7658]

@@Darkstar_Dayne I don't hate lotr but Hobbit trilogy>lotr the world wil understand it one day

[@danep1053]

Ryan's wig is too small for his huge head

[@timothypolanco8622]

Blood & Cheese was a lot more darker in the book in comparison to what they showed in this episode. Also we got a name drop for Dalton Greyjoy aka the red kraken😈, and I hope we can see more scenes of the younger members of team black do their own plans. Because they are importent in the book an I just hope the writers remember that. And finally I'm patiently waiting to see if this is the season that we will get to see the lads of riverrun, or will they(the writers) save them for season 3.

[@kabirh3626]

This show is Woke bs , Black rastas with white dreadlocks as Valyrians 😂😂😂 Hilarious

[@MorbidMind123]

Alicent's sex scene really pissed me off, it was so unnecessary and to me was only there because HBO has to be the "adult" streaming service when its just gratuitous.

[@crazyfingers619]

Eh, it's not the end of the world, but I agree. For me it was kicking the dog to make us hate that guy. I'm so sick of shows just throwing a dog in something to manipulate the audience. Overused trope at this point. Like Ryan said it kinda just shows the character's growth, or the moral decay. She just doesn't give a darn any more, she's going to enjoy some raunchy fun because the world is obvious madness.

[@Snow19867]

Why? Criston Cole was supposed to be doing his duty and guarding the queens room but nah, he ain't no honorable knight!

[@MorbidMind123]

@@Snow19867 In the book Alicent is taken hostage by B&C and forced to watch, turning it into her banging hotboi instead is just character assassination, both characters are meant to be prudish

[@Snow19867]

@MorbidMind123 I know I've read F&B. I'm not trying to justify their choice of going down this write route, but they did tell us that we should view this as another version of the unreliable narrative. Some scenes are better in the book, some in the show. Pick and choose. I like both

[@MorbidMind123]

@@Snow19867 I thought this was meant to be a definitive "True" version of events compared to the unreliable narration of the book

[@Nobodycares678]

It’s not about who has the seat of harrenhal. It’s about 1. Who wins the favor of the Tully’s as the whole of the river lands will follow and 2. The physical, geographical advantage of whoever gets control of it

[@jay-1800]

The Riverlands’s won’t just side with whoever the Tully’s side with as the Tully name doesn’t have the same clout as the other great houses. They never ruled the Riverlands they were given it because they sided with the conquerer early on. The Brackens and Blackwoods generally won’t side together and as we will find out the the Riverlands and Reach will be torn apart by different families choosing opposing sides.

[@alexcomisar632]

I love these guys and their reviews but for the life of me i don't understand the simping for the show where a chick with dragons gets a free ride through the world (the exact plot that other chick). All i see its just another girl whos not like other girls and wants to be a man... That and lots of teenage angst and teenage romance... Are u guys getting payed for this?

[@onetwome]

*paid. Tell us what to watch Alex, something you think is good right now.

[@YetiRC]

they are coping hard. desperate to watch something good, so they have to tell themselves that this is good.

[@samwallaceart288]

The difference is the intelligence of the side characters and how much each action has consequence. The plot is about two queens fucking things up for everyone else, but the show recognizes the grim reality of that and shows exactly how much that behavior hurts everyone else. Going back to their main criticism, they don't the old lady Rhaenys because her fuckup is the only fuckup that doesn't get recognized as that or any consequence and her character still gets depicted as a badass; that's always been a problem for the boys and they've been consistent about that. The main ladies though consistently lose people and get corrupted and it's shown that neither of them is the "good guy"

[@mmanzanozr1]

Why did it seem like Helaena hypnotized the rat catcher? That whole scene was very odd. Also I did even notice the dog being kicked lol

[@Tweed_Tone]

Blood and Cheese was a big miss and disappointment. The rest of the episode was solid and good. I’m sure if this show was made in the 2010s we would’ve gotten a bigger shock factor and authentic version as the book details. I feel like it downplays the significance of this event but I’m sure episode 2 will lead on.

[@MusashiHeadSplitta]

Can you or someone explain what blood and cheese is?

[@UNDRRAYDID]

@@MusashiHeadSplittablood and cheese is the two men “Rat Catchers”

[@TheDream6842]

​@@MusashiHeadSplittaThe two assassins and it was different in the book, because Aegon had 3 children not 2 as they did in the show.

[@Darkstar_Dayne]

I think this is better for a Tv adaptation

[@gingerandbroke1402]

Ya, the blood and cheese plot was so anti climactic that it kind of ruined the episode for me. 5.5/10 imo.

[@Dancingwithclyde]

The fact that I enjoyed this episode and loved the character development and never picked up my phone shocked me. It’s like I’m waiting to turn it off but I’m invested in it? Strange feeling after alllll these terrible shows these past years it was a breathe of fresh air.

[@MisterSinisterReviews]

Been waiting for this.. What a year its been. The Acolyte, then HOTD...A perfect change.

[@JJ-52]

Hail King Aegon! Team Green all day!

[@gsm9449]

I have no read the books, but knew about some spoilers. For me the sounds of that last act is still in my mind, but i got distrated with the fact that there was no guards around protecting the royal family in a time of a war. It make no sense, they should have put some guards and take them down or something. It seem too easy.

[@glorfification]

Stop dragon my heart around!

[@justin.channels]

This is a good group chemistry esp with the uncommon Fringy appearance

[@Neo2266.]

I hate the comparison of dragons to Nukes. No, they're gunships. A normal dragon is like an Apache or a Hind, Vhagar is an AC130

[@moe5020]

no they are definitely nukes. They are can wipe out a castle or an army within an hour and like a nuclear arsenal they are a deterent neither side can afford to make a move without careful planning and all tactics are planned around the movements of the dragons because if you leave an opening thats basically the end of the war. And like nukes/bombs they are indiscriminate and cannot be controlled once deployed they mention and it's shown in 1x10 that once the dragons go to war they cannot be called back.

[@Neo2266.]

@@moe5020 No, all that you said is more comparable to a gunship than a nuke. Now let's look at all the ways dragons *aren't* like nukes but are like gunships: Allowing people or supplies to travel on them, through the air. Being unreachable by conventional weaponry when airborne. They're not depleted once used. They require a constant supply of fuel/food to be usable. They are much MUCH more precise than nukes, you can target an alleway and have very little collateral. They are not a payload, they don't require a silo to be launched, they can park and attack from whenever they please. This also allows them to completely ignore defenses and obstacles such as walls, rivers, ravines, etc. Only thing that can counter them are other dragons/gunships or anti-air systems, like the scorpions mounted on the walls.

[@moe5020]

@@Neo2266. you're missing the point, it's not about superficial similarities the reason they compare them to nukes is because of how they influence decisions and the balance of power. If the greens lost vhagar for instance the war would instantly be over similare to how if russia lost their nukes there would be no cold war. There is also the disparity between the level of destruction they are capable of a no other weapon in asoiaf can level a city a dragon can do it easily similare to how a gunship is pathetic compared to the tsar bomba or something. Also you claim they are precise which is not true like I said similare to bombs they are indiscriminate, dragon fire burns insanely hot and will cause uncontrollable fires both in forests and cities if a dragon set an alley on fire that could very well just start an uncontrollable fire that dooms the whole city plus like I said once they start fighting dragons can't be recalled "when dragons go to war everything burns"

[@Neo2266.]

@@moe5020 I get that point and stopping at that point is missing all the other points of having a dragon, it's not just a threat, it has tons of other utilities and the threat is much more comparable to having a helicopter in Medieval times, calling it a nuke is incredibly reductive.

[@hobomaster6237]

streamyard keeps cutting if two people talk its bad

[@Gojeto346]

Blood and cheese happened in the show in a way that would be sensationalized and telephoned into being the version we read. For that reason I love it. I love how they try to play off of book lore and their own take on things. I get being bummed out but my headcanon is the book version is the one the greens tell everyone what happened.

[@samwallaceart288]

That's a good save on it. For me it really just depends on how they contextualize it in the next episode

[@doctorajaguar]

Yep, book scene is Alicent's version of what happened I guess.

[@CabooseAhNotMyFault]

the fish taco joke was good, mauler, you dont like fish tacos?

[@reaps912]

I'm still concerned about where this could go, considering neither the actors nor producers seem to have any understanding of the characters in their own show (re: articles and video interviews), but I'll approach it with cautious optimism

[@Mister_Skar]

I worry a little bit that last season some writers didn't like that Damon was popular so I worry they're going to make him an idiot

[@MarkSlavin]

Mauler - you weren't supposed to know exactly what Daemon said, you were supposed to think they were looking for Aemond, not the son of the King, so it would be a shock (to us non readers)

[@unrealkinoart]

Yes I was confused, I thought Daemon sent them to kill Aemond

[@gunnar6674]

Aemond was the primary target, but they get into it - the way they cut away from the conversation when they ask "What if we can't find Aemond".

[@AnonymousGamerDB]

No matter what the book says Kristen Cole actions prove that he is after power when ranira was heir he went after her he can't get with aegon's wife so he's getting with the queen mother these things are calculated He's not a hopeless romantic

[@amandakushner8665]

the show runners are trying to make the show more like a teenage drama Or a regular drama Show

[@mr.knownothing33]

They could’ve done better. Red Wedding a pregnant lady was stabbed a bunch of times and they showed it. TWD had the Glenn death scene. They were just riding off people’s expectations which is what GOT had been doing the last couple seasons

[@Worix21]

I totally understand Maulers thoughts on the ending, and I'm glad Gary and Ryan gave a bit more background. However I disagree that what we got was somehow softer than what was written. It was shocking and very disturbing to hear the killing of a child. To be clear I'm basing my opinion on the episode and Ryan and Gary's telling of the book scene as I haven't read HotD.

[@Worix21]

I forgot to mention that the scene should have ended with the beheading sounds.

[@StayFractalesque]

Why tho?

[@lucasbelmonte2832]

The actual killing of Jaehearys was brutal but everything else was softer. No threats of rape, no taunting of Maelor because he doesnt exist and Helaena offers a necklace rather then her life.

[@galetinm]

Blood and Cheese was way more brutal in the books. When the assassins get to Helaena's chambers they tie her and Alicent up. They ask Helaena to pick which of her sons they kill- the 6 year old Jaehaerys or 3 year old Maelor. Jaehaerys was the main target from the get go (not Aemond), they only gave her the illusion of a choice to torture her. When she refuses to pick they threathen her with r*aping her 6 year old daughter so she picks Maelor, hoping he'd be too young to understand what is happening Blood then whispers into Maelor's ear "You hear that boy? Your mama wants you dead" and strikes off the head of Jaehaerys instead.

[@Worix21]

@galetinm It sounds like it was more brutal in the book. I guess what I really am saying is I don't think this was something that was going to set the internet on fire like Gary and Ryan were saying it would have. I definitely would like to have seen the book version though. Thanks for expanding on this it helps paint a clearer image for me. 👍

[@jamiereekie9342]

At this point GRRM will be better off laying out in detail how he wants the story to end and letting AI finish for him. It'll be better then a half finished story for someone else to finish.

[@Polar333Bear]

I get the feeling that maybe Helaena did lie. Maybe for some reason she swaps Jaehaerys and Jaehaera. I'm just not certain why she would. He's the first born and heir, but I don't think Helaena really cares about any of that. Because earlier when they show Aegon coming to get Jaehaerys he realizes its Jaehaera, then later Blood and Cheese can't tell the twins apart. I don't think the writers put those scenes in for nothing. Something just seems off.

[@stevenchoza6391]

I doubt it. Jaehaerys died in the original source material at this point as well.

[@drob3820]

Remember though that she told Alicent and Cole that they "Killed the boy"

[@MarcoInaros-ns7ut]

She tell the truth hoping they would think she lied and go for the girl but the rat guy saw trough her attempt to lie

[@raemontargaryen3005]

but the child actors looked completely different. 😂. and she did picked up the girl. i think that would be a interesting cliffhanger if they cast an actual twin. but unfortunately no. its Jahaerys who was being killed. quite obviously

[@SolarDragon007]

That would be a massive change since the Dance is supposed to end with Rhaenyra/Daemon's son Aegon becoming king and marrying Jaehaera to seal the rift between the two sides.

[@joebond545]

Ending was abit weird, Haelana didnt seem too bothered to give up her son, but then again shes quite weird anyway but another fantastic episode. And i watched a breakdown video last year on the Rhaenees killing all those innocent people and apparently it is something that will come back up in the future

[@samwallaceart288]

I think Helaena's autistic and when traumatic shit happens she shuts down and goes into autopilot. Her reaction this whole scene was exactly how I thought she would act. She's in shock

[@thunderbosz]

I mean she did the smart thing the son was gonna die anyways so she saved her daughter and moved out without saying anything

[@samwallaceart288]

@@thunderbosz Funny because I thought she went and picked up a 3rd child; twins were side by side but while they're distracted we see Helaena go to the other side of the room behind them and grab toddler out of a different crib. Pretty sure that was the baby brother she was saving. We even hear some crying _after_ the deed was done that I assumed was the twin sister waking up