How a Single Pixel Ruined BBB's Edgeguard Versus Zain

In this episode of Frame Data, we’re going to take a look at Game 5 of Zain versus bobby big ballz in the Sami Singles bracket at Smash Summit 9. Even though it was just a side event, this singular stock gave Melee fans something crazy to see - a survival walltech literally pixels away from the blast zone. Since each game was only one stock, we’ll be examining all 13 engaging seconds of this game to pick apart how impactful survival moments like these can really be.
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The goal of the Frame Data series is to pick apart interactions which may get lost or go unnoticed in the big picture of a tournament. We're putting Super Smash Bros. Melee under a microscope to dissect the small interactions between players and show off what can make this game so sick.
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►Schmoo and Gentlefox's Melee Knockback Calculator:
ikneedata.com/c...
►Setchi's Platform Techchase Guide: • Guide to Fox platform ...
►What Makes Shine So Good?: • What Makes Shine So Good?
►SSBM Tutorials' Everything About Randall: • Everything About Randa...
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♫ Music ♫
Hugger Mugger - Where You At
SHIKIMO - Zodiac
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Voyage - Beyond
Catherine OST - Lost
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#FrameData #turndownforwalt #SmashSummit9 #SSBM

[@DavidADII]

Title: A single pixel Video: Several pixels away from the blastzone clickbait title unsubbed

[@turndownforwalt]

FUCK

[@Souldamnation13]

@@turndownforwalt literally unsubbable

[@OzaCommaAnand]

@@turndownforwalt I actually did click specifically because I was curious what "a single pixel" meant, so in that sense this was genuinely clickbait for me.

[@mrtoestie2707]

i mean, it is a little low. if the video is so analytical about every single moment of the match (which i love) then why tf say a single pixel. hell even straight up saying a few pixels in the thumbnail is interest sparking enough to do the same job without the extra tar.

[@7AM_Tzar]

Well, it’s one frame away from the blast zone as seen by comparing where fox teched and falco died. So pretty much a pixel if you want to say this unspecified unit of measurement is a ‘pixel’, as they are equal distance from what I can see.

[@iRideMusic]

Should've continued with an analysis of bbb's anger after the match lol.

[@turndownforwalt]

Next episode

[@KevinDuan7]

can’t wait to see an in-depth analysis of bobby’s big breakdown

[@shongzah2542]

@@KevinDuan7 a break down of a breakdown if you will

[@cstick2664]

watching the game frame by frame really makes me appreciate just how great the animations are in this game

[@JustButton]

Cstick aah I agree! The backslip was so nice

[@turndownforwalt]

They really are good!

[@papijr408]

10:16 length video with hella info for a 13 second clip. I love melee. I love this channel. I love smash.

[@turndownforwalt]

Melee is siiiiicccckkk

[@alexandergee4677]

You could easily replace ssbm tutorials with this style of analysis. For example, if you did a tutorial for wavedashing, you should showcase info like best and worst wavedash length, how to do it out of shield, situations when you would want to do it in neutral, grabbing ledge, sliding off of platforms, etc. I seriously believe you could single handedly inspire the next generation of melee players online given that everyone is stuck inside. You could show how to install dolphin and slippi, how to properly set up a gamecube adapter, and other information on how to get started to give people who aren't sure how to get started

[@muela8491]

Please do this

[@125conman]

I always wished someone would pick up SSBM-T. I think it got many players into the game.

[@dougrudolph5400]

what OP said ☝️

[@johnnycrash4892]

Damn OP you got a way with words. Someone should hire u for their business, you seem like you know how to make mooves

[@turndownforwalt]

Thank you so much! I really like this idea and I’d love to chat about some more about some different videos that could come from it. Are you in my Discord?

[@Faulheit]

"falco's shine its pretty good"

[@turndownforwalt]

Decent at best

[@emmbeesea]

Melee is beautiful. Never give up! Never surrender!

[@_Majunior]

If you're watching this and aren't subscribed, do yourself a favor

[@turndownforwalt]

That means a lot! Thank you!

[@pedlar6839]

BBB's rage was actually top tier, amazing stuff man

[@X0v3r]

YES FRAME DATA WOOOOOOO Keep up the great work walt. In times like this, ur content is something i always look forward to!

[@turndownforwalt]

Glad to hear it! Thank you so much!

[@Souldamnation13]

Love these complete breakdown. I like how you begin from the start and branching off explaining stuff along the way. Alot of super good info! Thank you. love it

[@turndownforwalt]

Glad you enjoyed! Thank you!

[@TurboPikachu]

I was trying to figure out just what it was that made your analyses so addictive to watch over and over. Then I realized. It's that same granular focus Summoning Salt puts into speedrunning record videos; but I'm more interested in competitive smash than I ever was/will be in speedrunning. I almost never enable upload notifications for any channel, but this one's a must for me. Phenomenal content so far, can't wait for what's next.

[@turndownforwalt]

Summoning Salt is incredible, so that’s quite the complement! Thank you so much and I can’t wait to hear from you in future videos!

[@roysourboy4380]

@@turndownforwalt he is 1000% right !!! YOU ARE THE SUMMONING SALT OF SMASH MELEE!!! :D

[@GeekyNerd54]

I started playing melee a month ago and your videos have been so helpful. Thanks for getting me back into smash after not playing since brawl :)

[@turndownforwalt]

That's awesome to hear! I'm glad you like them!

[@TurbinationE]

3:45 You have to be at least in the first frame of crouch in order to crouch armor to happen. In this section, Fox has only been grounded for 3 out of the 4 impact landing lag frames.

[@turndownforwalt]

Great information! Thank you!

[@emmkim1408]

Great video. Don't know if it's new or not, but the loud sound effects during the pause/play sequences are pretty distracting.

[@turndownforwalt]

Thanks! I’ve always included SFX, but after watching through it seems that some of the audio got muddied up after the export (I posted this video about 30 minutes after the video finished rendering, so I didn’t have a chance to review before posting). Sorry about that!

[@AniKhang]

@@turndownforwalt I think it's a nice touch

[@Pacmilio]

@@turndownforwalt i found it pretty fresh tbh not distracting at all

[@thegoodgeneral]

They are a nice touch but could easily be 50%-70% the volume and blend way better. Keep up the awesome work!

[@Magcargo96]

Crazy informative video. I love how in depth this is. It really is a rare sight in the KZbin scene nowadays. Props!

[@turndownforwalt]

I’m glad you liked it, thanks for the comment!

[@fittogan]

Damn that last iteration of the clip looked so fast after watching slow-mo for so long lol

[@turndownforwalt]

It’s pretty crazy reviewing these clips for that very reason - I end up watching through it so often that the real clip looks sped up!

[@leaffinite2001]

What a crazy 13 seconds

[@turndownforwalt]

It really was! Sami Singles was a pretty sweet format!

[@kevingarcia4921]

Zain's smile when he teched. Even he knew. Haha

[@qedsoku849]

Wow, amazing video. Having this much analysis on a match was really interesting.

[@turndownforwalt]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@kore382]

this the type of video that makes me want to learn melee

[@Non-disjunction]

Learn it you wont regret

[@turndownforwalt]

You should, it’s a great game! I hope these are helpful to you!

[@snocoldman]

Im both mad and insanely impressed that you managed to stretch 13 seconds of gameplay into a 10 min video.

[@turndownforwalt]

I try to cover a good bit of information in each video! The length is mostly just a byproduct of the concepts being discussed and how detailed of a description we give to those concepts!

[@Athesies]

This breakdown is incredible

[@daltonsw]

Absolutely wonderful video. Every new video you make has so much improvement over already good content. I love the little infographics that pop up. Phenomenal analysis as always. Keep up the phenomenal work!!

[@turndownforwalt]

Thank you so much! Appreciate the comment!

[@smoulder2908]

It's insane how underrated your content is, man. Can't wait for the day that you blow up, because you deserve it!

[@turndownforwalt]

I really appreciate it, thank you so much! I’m super excited with how the channel is progressing!

[@SuperScopeRawks]

Melee is even sicker in slow motion.

[@turndownforwalt]

There's always so much going on!

[@alaiabros]

Dude that intro was so good. GOOD SHIT

[@DarkLightProduction9]

Excellent music choice for the intro.

[@mr2cents308]

Been watching your stuff for awhile now walt your videos are always my favorite. delivery editing and content on point and it just keeps getting better. Keep at it man

[@turndownforwalt]

That really means a lot, thank you so much!

[@nfang_tk]

Thanks for adding the Shuzo Matsuoka meme LOL

[@turndownforwalt]

You know I had to do it

[@sonicthundershock]

Damn this is amazing, great analysis, I learned a lot

[@turndownforwalt]

Thank you!

[@kish4ri]

Why is there so much goddamn good melee content coming out lately goddamn

[@turndownforwalt]

Probably because Melee is sick!

[@EverythingisGoodieBud]

Intro matching up with the background voices is fire

[@samwisedidier7312]

Its actually insane how well edited your content is

[@turndownforwalt]

Thank you!

[@flamingo3478]

How a single discord message ruined BBB’s friendship with zain

[@AniKhang]

This is such a sick video, love the insight and presentation

[@ezanadaniel9149]

that was so sick, thank you so much

[@themodernshoe2466]

I didn't even know about ledge slips and character direction, then you tell me each character has different frame data on the ledge slips... How TF did they make this game in 13 months

[@Zonda1996]

Zain really pulls out every trick in the book to get out of punishes and generally survive/reverse deadly situations. Scary guy, tbh.

[@turndownforwalt]

He’s an incredibly scary competitor, I can’t wait to see what else he’ll be able to do soon!

[@AF-yk3mv]

This is very informative, subscribed. Hope to see more content like this in the future. In the mean time I guess I'll check out some previous uploads. Keep it up!

[@turndownforwalt]

Thank you so much! I’m glad you enjoyed and I hope you find the other videos on the channel entertaining!

[@mashtonish]

I dont play smash, but I feel like I'm getting smarter listening to these in the background

[@latinobacon]

i remember this happening to zhu at gods and gatekeepers vs sami himself haha

[@turndownforwalt]

That was a great clip! I might look at it for a future episode!

[@raghavpatel720]

We’ve voted on more frame data videos

[@turndownforwalt]

I hear you guys loud and clear! There will certainly be more in the next few weeks!

[@bb97979]

Amazing stuff as always Walt.

[@Controllerhead]

There are two different get up attacks?! Good god this game is deep. I have been playing for 20 years and never knew this. Jesus....

[@Benetheburrito]

you really improved the quality of the graphics(not saying the others were bad) , great job on this video

[@turndownforwalt]

Glad you think so! Thank you!

[@HexorMastah]

You make the best melee content hands down

[@turndownforwalt]

Jeez, thank you so much!

[@robbiestrong-morse730]

I thought it was going to be a phantom dair which always hurts.

[@tiorio9551]

Nice clip of Makoto Nagano at the end

[@turndownforwalt]

NEVER GIVE UP

[@sodapop939]

That’s Shuzo Matsuoka, ex pro tennis player

[@loganmcbroom9001]

Very good looking video and analysis. I think a few sections could be shortened/removed though, such as the walljump airdodge info, since it didn't have all that much to do with the actual clip.

[@turndownforwalt]

I agree, sometimes it can be a hard balance trying to figure out what extra information people will think is relevant. I thought the wall jump airdodge section was a fine inclusion for players who may be looking for other recovery options that aren’t discussed too often, but I totally get where you’re coming from. Thanks for the comment!

[@4250stuck]

just found this series ty!!!

[@turndownforwalt]

Welcome aboard!

[@UndertakerU2ber]

_”REEEEE!!!! REEEEEE!!!! I lost in a kiddy Japanese cartoon computer game! REEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!”_

[@turndownforwalt]

Yikes!

[@kobyichi]

Love these, good stuff man

[@turndownforwalt]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@Acryte]

Sick vid brother

[@sleepymartyr]

Love that song in the beginning

[@albinofroggy]

Quality video as always! :)

[@Nindjahamsta]

God tier content as always.

[@turndownforwalt]

Appreciate the love buddy!

[@IHAVENOLAWS]

Holy shit if players are actually taking into account whether they land on their back or stomach in fractions of a second like that and making decisions, that is actually nuts and Ive instantly given up all dreams of competing lol

[@turndownforwalt]

That frame data is incredibly specific and honestly inconsequential in the bigger picture, so I don’t think many players are considering a detail as small as that in the heat of a game. The goal of this series is to give a deeper look into these situations, but don’t let that dissuade you from competing!

[@ButcherKnife12]

Another banger Walt!

[@CharlonTank]

At 7:40 you're saying Fox is helpless, but is this case, he just have to fastfall and he could maybe even grab before falcon can do anything.

[@darkshippuu]

Amazing video

[@WungoBungo]

Should be noted that I am pretty sure if a character is hit in shield on platform and has released the shield button and is out of shield stun when they slide off the platform backward they are actually actionable and don’t go into tumble. Again not sure if this is correct

[@jason_hoogvorst]

8:08 Good song

[@sabado12x]

Amazing video!!

[@BackyardRonin]

If people get into a sudden death situation they should just do a Sammy single to decide the match

[@bruceU]

couldnt have happened to a more deserving person

[@cyrnoz1803]

Love how you get the vid over 10 minutes by bombarding us with frame data

[@turndownforwalt]

The video length is mostly just a byproduct of the concepts being discussed and how detailed of a description we give to those concepts! I usually don’t plan for videos to get to any specific length, so I’m sorry if that made the video less appealing to you!

[@cyrnoz1803]

@@turndownforwalt I was joking, love the content as usual !

[@jakezepeda1267]

That was a lot of single pixels.

[@griffindoerr1438]

i can’t help but notice how much walt sounds like birdperson from rick and morty LMAO

[@turndownforwalt]

In bird culture, this is considered a dick move.

[@griffindoerr1438]

turndownforwalt wubba lubba dub dub

[@peliparado94]

If you're not pixel perfect 99/100 times you're not good enough.

[@josh54]

8:46 insane

[@Gooboobananas]

He should have run off daired instead of double jumping and then going for the dair. It would have spiked fox the correct direction, and in time before fox could recover.

[@roysourboy4380]

ZAIN's OUR GAIN !!!

[@TheZogeking]

Cool content!

[@aki5876]

wow 10minutes of analysis on 13seconds game... So much stuff

[@WorldWendell]

damn that intro was so hype and then that cut to 15 seconds sucked lmao

[@turndownforwalt]

Sorry you feel that way! I’m not exactly sure what you mean, but I’ll try to make it better in future videos!

[@WorldWendell]

turndownforwalt Im talking about keeping the music going into the patreon ad portion at the start. Im really just nit picking editing things for no reason - no worries

[@mik5735]

Imagine someone knowing nothing about melee watching this video

[@-Conn-]

TL;DR BBB should have walk off -> dair'd

[@hahaphd6856]

Can you give us some frame data on that scream move BBB uses at the end? It seems to have caused the laughter effect on Zain, which must've lasted quite a few frames of hitstun.

[@turndownforwalt]

It actually has some pretty strong hitboxes which I’m sure Zain wasn’t expecting. I’ll look into a full breakdown, maybe around next April!

[@xxSuDDeNxNiNjA]

If he had done a rising nair instead of stupid down air on randal woulda won

[@AspectCave]

pixel? in most 3d games like ssbm there is no such thing as a pixel when refering to a distance in melee, say that mario and fox is 200 pixels away but if we zoom in and out the pixels changes, we can also change the res thus changing pixels, instead of pixels, melee characters position are represented nameless in-game units, independent of camera movements or res changes

[@pooper1614]

dope video

[@UheReasin]

(haven't watched the video) Isn't it more of A fact that he did a late hit of the DAIR rather than of a couple pixels of a blast zone? I mean I play with Falco fairly often and yet nowhere near the level of BBB and I know you either get the first hit of Dair in that edge guard situation, or don't go for it at all, especially without a jump

[@jonasrivers3675]

I love this show

[@beszt95]

Why is Bobby down against Zain's fox though lol

[@strange4107]

Nice SFX but please a bit quieter!

[@cgyh68748]

cool vid

[@correadoggsten]

hate when people use the word pixels to describe distance in melee. the camera zooms in and out so pixels are not a true measure of distance

[@TheJorjj]

Sponsored by patreon killed me

[@turndownforwalt]

I think "sponsored by" and "brought to you by" are two very different connotations, but I apologize if I didn't make that clear in the video. Sorry about that!

[@laylaeatstrees8689]

I've teched one those on rivals of Aether

[@Chocolatebeeef]

I lost it after he explained the frame data for get up attacks. None of that information was relevant. He even admitted that what he explained wasn't relevant!

[@VentusOfficiall]

I Get your point but the series is called frame data though. He explained it wasnt relevent but did it anyways because Its for people who are interested in that kinda stuff.

[@turndownforwalt]

I apologize if that was too much! Most of the videos in this series are a little nit-picky, but I still think they include important information to keep in mind!

[@mcfam8657]

Smash

[@eftorq]

09:09 listen closely Plup

[@mlalbaitero]

How does it determine whether or not u get knock backed onto stomach or back

[@turndownforwalt]

Just depending on your orientation as you land I believe!

[@mlalbaitero]

@@turndownforwalt ty

[@ghfghf7]

Heres the set and reaction for everyone kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6TGZpZvrdh4j8U

[@jacobpoe1036]

Man, I honestly love your content and I would donate to your Patreon if I had any money.

[@turndownforwalt]

It’s seriously not a problem at all, don’t feel pressured to join the Patreon! I really appreciate the comment!

[@Finneagan]

AH DAMN, AAAAAAAAAAAH

[@turndownforwalt]

FUCK FUCK FUCK

[@puppyclo]

good

[@stussikun]

skip to 8:45 ur welcome lol

[@turndownforwalt]

I still think there was a good bit of interesting information that we discussed before the actual walltech!

[@Patches4000]

Nice

[@turndownforwalt]

Nice