How A Sly Cooper Fangame Mislead Entire Community ( Why Savo Central Sucks )

The Deceit Of Thieves is a lie and the creator of the fangame is a funny man
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0:00 - 3:26 ( How It All Started )
3:26 - 7:54 ( Sly 4 DOT The Advertisement )
7:54 - 17:43 ( Sly 4 DOT The Story Sucks )
17:43 - 24:32 ( Sly 4 DOT The Artist )
24:32 - 40:48 ( The Opener Is A Funny Movie )
40:48 - 55:04 ( Savo Is A Funny Man Response )
55:04 - 1:03:03 ( Groovy Will Voice Clips )
1:03:03 - 1:25:38 ( Gamers Are Toxic: Vivi DissTrack LOL )
1:25:38 - 1:38:22 ( REDPILLED )
1:38:22 - 1:43:47 ( The Future Of The Sly Cooper Community... )
1:43:47 - 1:56:11 ( The Future Of Savo ( Deleted New Years Stream ))
1:56:11 - 2:00:58 ( Conclusion )
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The Entire Reaction Stream Of The New Years Stream: / 1250112852
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SacredRoses Socials:
/ sacred_dreams24
/ sacredroses.art
/ @sacredroses5997

[@rtrrt5ttgffgb339]

For a hot second , I thought this was a video about Court of theives

[@TerrorOfTalos]

There's only so much fans can do for a dead franchise, only so much...

[@TerrorOfTalos]

@@richenrd It's been 9yrs with no new entry or anything and I already consider any series without a new release or announcement within a 5yr span to be dead. I hope the rumors turn out to be true but realistically this is the last year for something to possibly be announced before losing all hope considering it's the series 20th anniversary.

[@TerrorOfTalos]

@@richenrd Yeah it was part of my childhood too but since I consider Sly 3s ending (outside that one line) to be a satisfying conclusion I'm not really eager for more. That is unless something else is made of good quality that turns out huge success with giving sly any positive mainstream attention therefore justifying a return but who knows what/when that could be. All I'll say is just keep hoping for a surprise announcement at some point this year because the chances are higher than ever now.

[@smartass643]

@@TerrorOfTalos sad we never got the movie and show

[@SlyCooperReloadCoded]

Get this video to the top of the Sly Cooper reddit, holy cow.

[@NellyMofasa]

Came here from reddit

[@aleppothemushroom7912]

The worst part is that I used to be a fan of this guy.

[@richardsavolainen944]

Don't feel sorry. Be happy that its over

[@MistressDove]

Yeah....

[@girlywolfpup1588]

Vtnvivi is one of the nicest dudes on youtube, having beef with him feels like having beef with a puppy or something.

[@slykoopa7332]

vivi really the goat hes always got the community at the forefront of his videos

[@ClockworkMask7]

I have to lay the blame for Sly Cooper's decline on Sony. They put a rush order on the fourth game. It only had half the many of episodes that were planned. Sanzaru had hoped to add the other episodes in as dlc but Sony stopped them. The series could have been wrapped up.

[@ClockworkMask7]

​ @Silenced Carnage Sanzura had hoped to extend the series. Like get into why Clockwerk hated the Cooper Clan so much. Besides, the cliff hanger of Sly 3 is horrible. Sly abandons his family's legacy after defeating the fiendish five to restore it. It's extremely out of character. Yes, he did it of his love for Carmelita Fox but he's not being true to himself. Once thing Thieves in Time did get right was that Sly and Carmelita finally came to terms with each others professions; they just didn't did a chance to find a solution. Sucker Punch could have ended the series better but they wanted to launch the game quickly and focus on Infamous.

[@breakinggreens]

Say what you will about the level of goofiness in TiT, but it was a hell of a palette cleanser considering what was being released during the rest of 2013. Savo’s idea to counter the goofiness completely is very… odd. Psychonauts 2 is incredibly serious in subject matter, and is one of the funniest games I’ve ever played. Mind you I only knew about his sly cooper related stuff… didn’t know about how he acted behind the scenes

[@SkeletoonsWasHere]

That's what I'm going at. Psychonauts 2 is great not because it's overall goofy or overly serious, it's because it has this mix of the two and that's why I love sly cooper.

[@GroovyWill]

Haven't played Psychonauts 2 yet, still looking to beat the first game.

[@KaimArgonarEyyyy]

It ain't goofiness that's the problem with TiT It's the shit writing and horrendous characterizations of everyone. Gameplay not too good either. Hate it.

[@GroovyWill]

@@KaimArgonarEyyyy That's the kind of goofiness I was referring to. Characters being flanderized, maps not weenies properly, strong contrivances, lack of theming - these kinds of things helped Sanzaru to kill the franchise.

[@GroovyWill]

@@richenrd Care to elucidate? Not sure what you mean here.

[@orangejuiceearrape]

Good job going down the Savo rabbit hole. I stopped watching anything from him when he switched to nothing but the red-pill nonsense. I'm relieved (and unsurprised) to know I'm not missing out on anything of value - and with what you talked about regarding Deceit of Thieves, I am also relieved and disappointed to know he wasn't putting together/making anything of value to begin with.

[@GroovyWill]

I'm glad you appreciate it. Skele's been stressed since the release of this video and I want to see more politeness. If you happen to look into this more, I encourage that you reveal your findings to me if you don't mind. I'm going to always maintain some kind of curiosity.

[@theotherfella61]

@@GroovyWill Oh Skele’s stressed? He just ripped a content creators entire life apart over the course of a 2 hour video and he’s the one that’s stressed?

[@GroovyWill]

@@theotherfella61 Yeah. He is. Skele didn't crunch an animator or recite red-pill rhetoric and generalize gamers, leftists or content creators, nor did he bolster his own platform with fake promise of a game looking to appeal to a niche following. People're now harassing and pointing fingers at him for making a video highlighting these behavioral problems - so uh, yeah - he has some right to be stressed. Why, do you think Savo is worried?

[@orangejuiceearrape]

@@GroovyWill I likely won't look into this stuff much (at least not as much as Skele already did) but I'll keep you in mind if I learn anything interesting.

[@theotherfella61]

@@GroovyWill yeah well he better toughen up. If he can’t handle a little push back, how’s he gonna be able to handle Savo’s response?

[@EernieHudson]

I’m not going to take a side, but I can understand why this was made based on the murky details of the Sly 4 treatment and the vagueness of it’s production. I think the most important thing to take away from this is that Sly Cooper fans who are not professionals that work in the gaming industry should not bolster that they can revive the series all by themselves, be it Damsel or Savo. They might have the ambition, but that ambition can fall flat with poor execution and end in a disappointing experience for everybody who was excited just to see something come of it. I don’t think this fan game or Damsel’s ever have a chance of coming to fruition without a proper team of educated and experienced developers who are given the greenlight to make it. If Savo truly wanted this project to go somewhere, what he should have done was take a few years to understand the complexities of game development and picked up on it as a trade since he’s an obviously talented man or tried to get into the industry himself and be a proper advocate for the series without all the brashness. I feel like this video dragged out the drama a little bit too much and some parts could have been cut, but I realize you were intent on telling the story with as much detail as possible and reviewing this guy’s stuff.

[@GroovyWill]

I have no disagreements, this comment is based and I appreciate your politeness.

[@EernieHudson]

@@GroovyWillSavo needed to ensure that he could efficiently produce something enough before announcing it prematurely and it seems to me like that was the biggest mistake made with this project. It was a treatment, but the expectations were high for the fans due to his confidence that he could make an interesting Sly Cooper fan project and see it to completion. For him to go ghost on the fans after expressing all the passion he had for the idea was a slap in the face, I think the least he could have done was admit that he tried but wasn’t equipped to make that idea into more than just an idea. The treatment itself was flawed, but it could have been something cool under the right circumstances and it’s a shame that Savo jumped the gun to make it with a very small team that was poorly prepared to fulfill the vision.

[@GroovyWill]

@@EernieHudson Still kinda bugs me how he handles criticism, asking about "to what extent is this just a mind game" or dismissing articulate narrative competency as if it "wouldn't be very entertaining". Even if Savo were to dissolve the project, I'd like to see him be open and honest about it; don't hide it behind a paywall. Take criticism well; don't project and point fingers at others when your project's put under a microscope. And don't crunch your animators; They need time to work on it and dissolving the project in less than a year because of the speed at which they operate is just in poor taste. There are more asterisks I could add here, but I just hope he learns to want to change, to improve not just his art, but the self as well.

[@EernieHudson]

@@GroovyWill Well said. He would benefit a lot from bringing himself down to Earth and not taking criticism as an outright attack. You aren’t telling him he doesn’t have the right to create his art how he wants, you are allowed to have an opinion about it and all he needed to do was stay humbled. He had a lot of responsibility he willingly took on to listen to fans and make something people can be fond of but he can be too. Nothing is flawless and he could have opened his mind more and it would have at least allowed an open discussion to take place about all of the material he released. There were passionate people in that project for sure and I’m sure they were sad to hit the brakes on it after the work they put into it.

[@EernieHudson]

@@tabreezsiddique I was present when the video was first released and I don’t recall statements like those being made from anyone on the team, but if they were then it sounds like that was only wishful thinking on their part. If their goal was to get the treatment noticed by Sony, then sure, I guess it could have been if it had more to present than just the general plot details and some illustrations. But suggesting they could have got the project greenlit in pre-production is unrealistic even if the team consisted of some professionals. I appreciate the amount of enthusiasm they had, but it sounds like it was all in vain. To my knowledge, most of the people who worked on the team are anonymous so we don’t know just how much time was invested into it, but it sounded like something that was at least in an early stage of progress for a while. I assume that most of them were relatively young and overzealous fans so that may explain the over ambition. The issue is that the fans have a right to be skeptical when it sounds like you are a real development studio making a real game instead of just a few teens and twenty somethings with a cool fan fiction idea and some knowledge of writing and animating. They needed to be more transparent about the limitations of their project and what the actual prospects of it being made were.

[@Lucia-Chansan]

i guess you could say.... deceit of thieves.... is deceitful...

[@Lucia-Chansan]

ohh look gary there i am at the near end of the videoooo

[@cutegamertv3687]

I will call it... **"LIES AND DECEIT!!"**

[@DS-dt1sy]

All I see are good examples of poor writing, overuse of tropes, etc etc. Also the huge McSweeney point. Absolutely Sly's indirect godfather wouldn't be like that. When the project was first announced, I was interested because the artist you mentioned was working on it and posted that they were working on it(so did a few other artists). It was very exciting for the art community at the time. Very disappointed to see how my fellow artists were treated. That's immediately what made me lose my respect. Also the death of the project in the art community absolutely solidifies it's death. If Savo wants this project to work ever again, he's gonna need to really grovel to get artists to not upcharge him..

[@flaktaryd7731]

Listening to the conversations with Skele and Groovy Will on Discord for over a few months, as well as doing research by watching Savo's videos and Skele's 'Savo is a funny man', it is clear that he's intransigent of his actions as Will had explained. I have never played the Sly Cooper games nor was interested in them, but it is sad how the communities is currently in this state. Bombastically advertising the Deceit of Thieves yet barely had done shit with it and crunching animators. I have read some of the comments that does feel like they're defending Savo, sometimes it's hard to tell if they are or not.

[@innawhiledubs]

I adore this video and everything it has to say 🙏 thank you for speaking out against all of this.

[@BreathWeapon]

you just got another sub! great video! saw the sly iceberg video and liked it as well!

[@blakemanke64]

Off topic, but what's the song at 1:47:38

[@SkeletoonsWasHere]

Sonic 06 you are my companion

[@JessLayton]

The whole red pill thing is so CRINGE. like he believes in that shit? 💀💀💀💀💀

[@Iaydibirb]

Damn I used to manage a big Amino and we were talking about this for a while Miss those old times

[@kaibaman182]

Sly Cooper: Turn Off The Dark

[@stash249]

Oh jeez I'm in this > w>;;

[@GroovyWill]

Yeah, but I figured you might have been interested in how the general impression had evolved. The good, the bad, the even worse - you deserve to know where your investment went and how it was exploited.

[@laserdude3643]

This video is 2 hour goddamn long

[@GroovyWill]

I like hims' funny words.

[@raccongo24]

i fucking love this video i put it as background noise for drawing also put it on loop 👌😩😤good stuff , its like a reward ✨

[@Kumakaree]

hey man lets make that 5k a reality i like this vid lol giving the sub

[@HydroKingEntertainment]

1:33:50 Skeletoons just went Super Saiyan Rage.

[@mr.wafflesrz1137]

Savo is the typical guy in school that has 100+ "good" ideas but none of those Ideas go off because they never analyze anything that goes into making those plans a reality

[@mr.wafflesrz1137]

@@theotherfella61 You could say the same about Savo, he made so much stuff related to his fanfic like it was official or something

[@SkeletoonsWasHere]

hi savo

[@SkeletoonsWasHere]

@@theotherfella61 twitter.com/SlippersLil

[@SkeletoonsWasHere]

@UCxjvFam6YeSNS5ykJrKl24w yea sure. the same person who came to my live stream to say some stuff like "do you go down on your girl" and "trans people have issues" isn't the same person when right after I leave stream, made a Twitter that has the @ SlippersLil and just to threaten me to come to my state to kill me. The same person who also know my friendships like groovy and tabreez ( tabreez who never really followed me or interacted with me a lot on youtube ). The same person that right when you left, the actual savo account came in the stream. Yea I totally believe that this isn't just an alternative account.

[@mattneal4309]

Donovan Sharpe talks weird also

[@Kingbeat1]

I remember j reviews used to show this guy on the community post all the time

[@SkeletoonsWasHere]

Stuff happened between those two but I don't even want to get into it because it's been years ago and J wouldn't want me to tell that story since his friend, tactical bacon hates me now and the story is more personal towards him. But I'm happy someone remembered that fact. I think that was also how I even stumbled into savos content in the first place

[@Kingbeat1]

@@SkeletoonsWasHere wait that's why he don't post about him anymore

[@SkeletoonsWasHere]

Yea they used to be mutuals until it fell apart. Savo is a real dick and has no care for anyone's personal struggles. With his and even my experiences with talking to the dude, he's just some loser who does things for his own benefit but doesn't care who gets affected in the long run. I did hear in a recent Livestream that he's gonna stop doing red pill stuff to do gaming but he shat talked all his gaming audience that I don't think they'll even come back or not trust him.

[@Sarold]

This should not be privat btw

[@princkleminckle1159]

sly cooper drama? Oh hell yeah

[@SkeletoonsWasHere]

Not even the sly community has good drama. This vid sucks lol

[@arturocastillo7760]

I agreed with you Kevin Savo is not good I use to be friends with him not anymore because he told me get lost I won’t be as Green Day or Linkin Park or blink-182 he did like this to me 🖕🏻 he told me I’m a fake Sly Cooper game character

[@mattneal4309]

Thought you all were cool? You used to come on the streams and chat. Also why you keep saying decent of thieves?

[@thefrogbrain3023]

Alright, I have a lot to say about this. I feel like this video is a manipulative take, you present a lot of dodgy evidence to slander him and it's missing a fair amount of context about what took place between you, your acquaintances and Savo Central. For all I know, his retaliation was justified, but I can't formulate an opinion on who is in the right and who is in the wrong based on these little isolated incidents where you take what he says and make it seem like he's being unnecessarily hostile. All of this feels like a personal matter that is being broadcasted to stir the pot and make him look bad despite your methods of doing so being suspect and inappropriate. I would go as far as to accuse you of doxxing him based on the inclusion of private messages, which is a direct infringement of privacy and are misleading because you paint him out to be the guilty individual, but you appear to be the instigator. Your messages sent to Savo Central's animator come off as gaslighting to a degree and don't tell much about the full story, it appeared like you took small details out of what she said and twisted it to fit your narrative of unproven claims like that Savo was crunching his animators. That statement doesn't align with any verifiable facts and is purely speculative. The artist was in fact credited at the end of the treatment video, so your point about the artists not receiving credit is up for debate. You assume the other artists were not credited because Savo withheld it, but that could have been a request on their part to remain anonymous. Look, it’s reasonable not to like this guy. He's very abrasive based on what I've seen, but I'm skeptical of the information you provided in this video. You made a lot of presumptions like the production manager for the game not being a credible spokesperson, which is grasping at straws. You reference the copyright dilemma, but in most cases, you don't need to own an IP to make a fan game, it's a fan game for a reason and the only way it would fall into copyright infringement is if they were to make money from it, but some IP owners are more strict so touché. I'll watch this video a few more times to give a more thorough case study of what is being talked about, but so far I'm not convinced that Savo lead this project with misleading intentions. Fan projects undergo setbacks and complications all the time and it's usually an unfortunate end to something that is difficult to begin, but that doesn't mean the initial promise was false. He made it sound like the project was being put on hold or transitioning into a different idea rather than canned. I understand the frustrations all of this may still cause for fans, but at the end of the day, this was nothing more than a treatment that was trying to get off the ground. We shouldn't treat writers and designers of fan games like they are as capable as an actual studio and likewise, they shouldn't treat themselves as if they are either. The only thing I'll put Savo Central at fault for is being too ambitious for his own good.

[@GroovyWill]

If you'd like to see some of the comments that went on under Skeletoonswashere's first video about Savo, "Savo is a funny man", you'll be able to see some of what started the conversation, and while you won't see the thread Savo deleted, you'll still find my general attitude about the whole thing - detailed, and open to change. While I don't feel Skeles' arguments were entirely well articulated, as a direct witness and participant in these events, and someone who helped organize some of the points in the script, I don't think they're very far from the truth. I left Savos' stream about the fangame thinking I'd left some kind of positive influence just to find the next morning he reverted to calling me the biggest shit-talker in the comments all over again, and all this time later, I was still trying to be optimistic and polite about it all, still open to the idea that he can change. I don't feel there's much ambition in a person who dishes out ad hominems and generalizations when someone criticizes his art, not anymore. In any case, we won't get along, it just isn't happening. I respect that you want to be skeptical - so stay skeptical! I'd much rather you disagree with me than blindly support Savo in the face of all of this evidence, even if I seem to find it much more incriminating than you do.

[@thefrogbrain3023]

@@GroovyWillI would really suggest all of you to hug it out and try to set aside the differences one day. There’s a lot of hateful rhetoric in the world. Everyone in situations like this would benefit from the ability to have an open hearted and empathetic discussion. Savo may very well be a troubled guy with a chip on his shoulder, but I’m sure he can find it in himself to engage in a peaceful moment of learning to love and let go despite the unfavorable opinions some may have regarding his creations and certain words that weren’t said more respectfully. I try not to cloud my judgment and favor one person’s perspective over another which is why I critiqued Skeletoons for being too one-sided, however I agree with the points made about Savo’s overall demeanor being too harsh and self-assured. He needs to be more transparent in a mature manner and he’s clearly still a smart guy, so I’m sure he is capable. There is always more to a person and their story than meets the eye.

[@SkeletoonsWasHere]

Dox?

[@GroovyWill]

@@thefrogbrain3023 I lost that kind of optimism when he sent me voice clips telling me that my polite criticism would or could cause his followers or other readers to commit suicide. He's kind of gone off the deep end here. If I were to change my mind, it'd take a while to be able to actually trust his word, let alone like him again. At this point, what he needs is to be humbled - to be reminded that for all his generalizations, reactionary frustration and distasteful views on the internet, everyone's still human, and that until they've earned disrespect, each is worthy of respect. I'm not saying he has to evolve his vocabulary to be as long and jumbled and frustrating as mine, I never said he had to have the same views on Sly Cooper as I did, and I never asked him not to make his fangame - he projected and lashed out, and even if we shook hands and made up right now, I would never forget that. In this moment, I don't want to see what more there is to this person, my eyes have simply met too much.

[@thefrogbrain3023]

@@GroovyWill Once again, I wasn’t present for the conflict, so I will take a neutral stance in between both you and Savo. Internet toxicity is pervasive and I prefer to be part of as little of it as I can, so I take the position of a middle man who respectfully dissects both parties with whatever information is provided to me. I agree that it is up to Savo now whether or not he’d like to come forward and remove some of the stigmatization attached to him. You and him will never be friends and it’s not realistic to expect that, but I would still love to see some character development take place on his part. His Internet persona is chaotic but I would be interested to see him clean up his act a little. I will mention that I do still agree with a lot of what Savo has to say and I will defend his right to defend his character and his art. I don’t like his attitude, but when he’s not engaging in this type of drama I’ve found myself interested in his insight and opinions on worldly matters. If most of his output turns into negativity and controversy though, I won’t be as forgiving.

[@gotti4l351]

You just made this view for some views

[@SkeletoonsWasHere]

52:30 you clearly didn't watch the video

[@grizzythegreat2123]

Lol this is funny . Savo not canceled tho this a Savo W tbh

[@SkeletoonsWasHere]

Keep coping LMAO

[@GroovyWill]

@@deceitfulsob Relax kiddo, no one said you had to watch the video.

[@GroovyWill]

@@deceitfulsob You... Say that like writing an essay is a bad thing. All I asked of you was to be polite.

[@GroovyWill]

@@richenrd I'm just asking that he not be impolite about it was all. My feelings aren't hurt anything, I just can't help but worry 'bout my buddy.

[@Kumakaree]

LOL a LOLCOW

[@MistressDove]

I'm convinced you just can't follow up Sly 3, I feel like there's a reason Sucker Punch ended the series with 3 and honestly I respect their decision to put the series to rest.

[@GroovyWill]

I'm convinced it's difficult. I feel like that's how Sanzaru missed such an open door and killed the series so carelessly. Surely - there has to be SOME way, right?

[@MistressDove]

@@GroovyWill Personally I don't think it's possible but if there was a way to follow up Sly 3, it'd have to be something done carefully because it's clearly something that's super easy to screw up, especially if you're a new team and not the team from the trilogy.

[@GroovyWill]

@@MistressDove Absolutely. Stay cautious, stay ambitious, don't invalidate prior events and provide reason the series doesn't have to stay so ephemeral. It's a big shopping list, but I think there's a way to make it happen the right way, even if it isn't easy, or someones' first take at the concept. Maybe I'm too faithful about the power of creativity - or the ability of the fans - but if nothing else, it's a good mental exercise to share and imagine.

[@MistressDove]

@@GroovyWill I respect your viewpoint and usually I try to be optimistic about these sorts of things as well even if I can't share it. I'm more than happy with the three games we got and can live without getting another one personally.

[@GroovyWill]

@@MistressDove Fair fair, I respect that.

[@huntersmith561]

YES keep talking crap about him