How can we make Motocross CHEAPER!? (2-Strokes?)

[@CameronNiemela]

Couldn’t agree more. I have more fun on a 125 than any other bike. Plus you can replace the top end in an hour with a few hundred bucks in parts.

[@richardferrell4362]

125s are fun but the cost savings isn't there anymore. I get 100 hours out of my 450 before even checking valves. I get 12 out of a 125 piston. And maybe 50 hours out of a crank

[@ryanlauten7124]

And you get a way better work out on a 125 lol

[@CALpopOG]

I wish I’d have never sold my 99 YZ 125.

[@lawrencefranck9417]

With practice a four stroke can be done as far as piston and rings on under an hour

[@jonnyutah3180]

Thanks Karl for all your cool stuff to help on my Builds U rock🇺🇸🤘

[@881Gino]

100% support for bringing back the 2-strokes. They are cheap, easy to work on and sooo much fun to ride!

[@georgelynch6139]

The EMX125 series in the GPs has hundreds of entries every weekend. The feeder series in Europe are flourishing down into the local competitions thus a defined progressive route up the levels, EMX85/125/250/ MX2; MXGP.

[@rg807]

I think a spec bike would possibly be the funnest class to watch. Great idea, Ping!

[@rg807]

Also, there's nothing more fun than a 125 that's absolutely pinned!

[@1969cmp]

I learnt to ride on a DT175 in the mid 80s and several months later, in 1986, bought a second hand 1984 KX125. I learnt alot and that bike has a front disc, a drum on the rear and no KIPS powervalve. A wizz bang high-tech would have been a waste a time. The 1985 KX125 was a very good bike....excellent. Even the 1986 CR125 had regular telescopic forks, a rear drum brake and ATAC. These were very good bikes and plenty fast enough.

[@erickelly7161]

This is one of the best podcasts I have ever watched. This topic talks more about income disparities and motorcycle costs rising than even the bikes themselves. Nobody wants to see just rich kids flying around the track at the lower levels while the have nots only watch. You see the money over taking talent/ dedire in other motorsports such as offroad and even Nascar.

[@malikedwards2180]

The most intellegent thing in this sport that ive heard! 2 strokes cater for such a variety of financial situations. We need to keep bikes for people and families on a budget. Riding dirtbikes is a passion, and keep it accessable for all types of incomes!

[@claytonroe8143]

Here in New Zealand we still have a 125 class at the nationals.

[@tommybruhn2922]

Absolutely spot on. The cost and insane power are a real hindrance.

[@danarrington2224]

A couple years ago you had somebody on the show that was talking about the same thing Ping is talking about. Make a deal with somebody like Suzuki to buy 400 stripped down bikes from them and then rebrand them and sell them in America. That will satisfy the AMA's homologation requirements plus it will give an American company a seat at the AMA table(a very small seat but still a seat). Suzuki would be the perfect manufacturer for this if they would do it. 125 and 250 2 strokes only. I'm in. Let's do it.

[@minibikemafia]

This needs discussed non stop now days. Thank you for addressing this!

[@barthur2645]

I will die on this hill with Ping! The 125 is the most fun bike you can ride on a Motocross track. Anyone that says they don’t have enough power, just have no clue how to ride. All the past legends rode them and had zero issues in SX or MX. They learned technique. His point of the jump from supermini to 250f is spot on too; even Haiden Deegan had his ass slammed by the 250f at Mini O’s his first time out racing it among others.

[@dangerdanger5411]

This is one of the best G.T.’s I’ve seen yet

[@Womb2DaTomb]

I started racing at 21 (30 now), got a used KX250F for £2200 and man even that for me at the time was a LOT of power. Definitely with Ping on this one.

[@shawngrimm2118]

Sweet succulent sound of a 2 stroke soring through the air I definitely agree with Ping need that stepping stone

[@hondaryan450]

Paid $4195 for 125 new in 1999. I was 16 and got a dishwasher job to pay it off. Teach these kids to work for it first lol good luck!

[@jordanonofer3886]

The 2 best together !

[@scottmagrane8449]

Well said💪 ping! I agree. Only +’s for the sport.

[@robbierisden2857]

I agree with pingree on about the rm 125. That was the best 125 ever made. Pipe, silencer and v force reeds is all it needed to be a good bike. The only bike I wish I would have kept would be my last factory Suzuki RM 250. It was a 450 killer.

[@timothykelly5588]

we need free, fun,convenient places to ride

[@summit-photo]

*You must learn to be a mechanic.* We paid $2,500 for a 2017 KTM 85SX, no problems. We paid $700 for a 2001 KX65, no problems. We paid $3,500 for 2019 KTM 125SX, no problems. Two strokes forever, BEFORE EFI Maintenance is easy. Top, bottom, carb, forks... Buy all the pre 2020 two strokes, while you can....

[@damonforrest1570]

I agree that jumping straight to a 250 from a supermini. To grow in a better way kids should go through the 125 class. 🤙

[@stug77]

The selection of trail bikes, which is what I'm looking at, seemed to be much better in the past. Lots of small two and four strokes. Not many companies are only making, like you said, "minibikes" and 250cc 4t 40hp monsters that cost 10 grand. There's a couple exceptions, like the klx140RF, but no 2 strokes. Nothing that fits a full size human at least. Now I know why.

[@jpesicka492]

I watched this when it came out and got a 01 CR 125R for $2K, an old Team ECC race bike, rode it for a few weeks then did it complete frame off and everything i could buy for it..bud racing head new top end..it already had gold valves and my guy redid it super plush. put $3k more into it 😂

[@davidmendenhall1784]

I did pretty much the same thing with a 01 rm 125 no regrats brother!!!

[@shaneedmonds8690]

Just did the same with an 04 kx, put 7k in it, nut and bolt restoration.

[@martynclinton8092]

100% this and also on the rownside.. All vets on 450’s for getting out the gate.. just blowing up after lap two!

[@pilsnerfamilymotorsports3275]

My dad put me on a ktm 150 2 stroke after 85's, was awesome

[@bollweevil8112]

In 1989 my dad bought me an ‘86 KX 80 for $600 at the track. A 125 2stroke is a great bike for riders age 15 and up. A $2000, 3 year old bike sounds reasonable to me

[@engineerinhickorystripehat]

I did the same exact thing except it was brand new at the dealer for $1000.

[@jpesicka492]

Im confused where are you finding $2000 3 year old bikes? Are you saying hypothetically?

[@darrenmackenzie1645]

I agree with Ping. Back in the late 60’s and early 70’s , small displacement bikes got the young kids into moto. We need that kind of evolution to happen again. Like he said , keep the price reasonable and they probably sell a lot of bikes.

[@davepittwood]

That's the way to go , make it accessible to everyone. I wouldn't have been able to ride when I was a kid if it wasn't for cheaper 2 strokes that you could spanner yourself. Steel bars and cheng chin tyres all the way !

[@bryanray-dol]

Cobra and KTM mini bikes are running between $5-6k these days 😮. It’s not just an issue moving to big bikes.

[@MikesWorld1]

Yes and it’s ridiculous

[@KG-yc6cl]

@beginning he complained that a 250F was $6,000. Bro, I paid $5,700 for a 2023 KTM 65 a year and a half ago. 😢

[@OtisFlint]

@@KG-yc6cl Yeah top tier 250Fs are $10k now.

[@chrisbarker1895]

I was bummed when I couldn’t get Ping over here in the UK to race the DEP 125 champs a while ago I saw the need for a 125class and went out and made it happen nationally, it was a huge success too so we added 250 2sts too and it rocked, the series got big I had to let it go to a national promoter who sadly killed it off There’s a huge demand for 125’s and especially a cheaper way to keep racing, the costs of racing a 4st has seen a big percentage of guys leave the sport and the noise had lost so many circuits I think a killer mover would be like Suzuki pumping out their old RMs at a decent price and Im sure they’d sell boat loads, the KTM isn’t doing it here as the fi just isn’t as good as a carb, Yams are selling well

[@noahlindsey5100]

Ping is absolutely right👍

[@1320fastback]

Nothing smells like premix in the morning! KX500AF for life

[@jarredtremain4644]

I agree 100% fella's. When 4strokes arrived and were racing 250f vs 125 2stroke or 450f vs 250 2stroke it ruined the amateur level of riders developing skills when 1st racing. I rode 500, 250 2strokes for couple of years in bush with mates and started racing C-grade amateur mx at age of about 25 on a 06 yz 125. It was awesome. They need to have 2stroke and 4stroke classes separately. I think sport will get heaps better than way it's travelling. New 4stroke 450 are over $14000 or $17000 for factory editions or $20000 for stark. We are dirtbikers not supercar driver's. Avagud1

[@KosmicHRTRacingTeam]

Agree 100%. Everything is so expensive. My CRF450R, S-Worx Levo or my Kosmic karts. Everything is around or over $10k!!! That’s not even talking about SxS (which I don’t have)

[@tylerjamesgillismusic4782]

Couldn’t agree more there needs to be a new cheap 125 for sale and a class for 125s

[@joslinnick]

I'm all for Suzuki bringing back the RM125, but couldn't a manufacturer sell a 125 as a kit bike to make it cheaper? Bypass factory assembly and ship all of the parts to the customer in a box. Motor comes fully assembled, forks come fully assembled, maybe the wheels, too. Everything else gets put together in the garage by the rider.

[@jpconard]

No doubt, I took apart linkages and swingarm and head stays on 2 23 yz250x to grease, so if we do that anyway just give me the parts and manual at a discount.

[@joslinnick]

@@jpconard That's a good point.

[@chrisdadigger1018]

When it comes to dirt bikes in my book a two stroke is the way to go. Mechanically simple to fix or rebuild.

[@Chummy653]

I sold my new yz450 fi bike for a yz 250… now it’s fully built and light as a feather I love it, I’m so much more happy with it than my 450 & for half the price! 😂 Ngl I wanna try a new fc350 though.

[@Benny_blanco85]

You’re 1000% right. If it weren’t for slinging my Kx125 around when I was 15 then there’s no way I would have developed enough skill to ride my yz250 with such precision and skill all while doing it safely. If I hopped on my 250 at 15 as a first big bike I might have been injured 10x over honestly, plus the fact I bought multiple 125s for around $1-$1.5k. Decent shape Used 250s are $3.5k+ now 😢 Bring 125s back for the next generations please 🙏

[@RobNaughton54]

The GNCC series brought back to 125 two-stroke class. I’m pretty sure that’s why Yamaha did the 125X because Ktm had the 125 XC. Of course none of them are $6000 motorcycles. Lol.

[@robbgnarly]

yeah as a dad who wanted to get their kid in to MX, the cost for the average family is stupid expensive and cost prohibitive hell a used 85cc that is competitive is gonna cost $3000 used all day long. Im a huge 125 fan. I actually sold my YZ250F to get a YZ125

[@Rollingtrips41]

I ride a 03 KX125 love it 2 stroke

[@jetdr]

2 strokes need brought back, I learned to ride on a 1979 ds80, then moved up to a 1984 rm80, didn't ride for a few and then got the bug, bought a yz250, the skills learned from riding a 2 stroke beast in the woods is something a lot of young riders these days will never harness. 4 strokes are so easy to ride in comparison, you can be in the wrong gear and still pull a decent hill.

[@phillipharriott8632]

I'm never getting rid of my 125! Just instant gratification.

[@rhysshelley9277]

I wish Honda, kawasaki and suzuki did a re run of their 05 250 2 strokes and 125s

[@capncotter1]

Something similar to the Briggs class in karting

[@scottpeters8640]

While I was an early adopter of the 4-strokes (1999 YZ 400, then a bunch of YZ 250F's) I really think the sport would be better with 2-strokes, although I never thought the 125cc class was right...they should have been increased up to 150-175 cc so grown men could race them well.

[@jakerivets2249]

Have a 250 2-stroke class, too. They're cheaper to own and race than a 4-stroke

[@scottbrown8142]

This is a great idea

[@petersenrodsandhobbies821]

Only way me and my kids could get in is buying other people's projects and doing rebuilds. 2009 kx250f for $400 and put $1k in and it's like brand new. Found out it was a 270cc big bore too. $3k for a Husqy FE350 with a rekluse fmf 4.1

[@DGWShortScaleGuitar]

Highschool MTB teams apply Pings logic ⚡

[@stevestiffler9120]

The best French team you can get to race EMX on is BUD racing Kawasaki, and their stuffing KTM 125sx engines in their KX250f frames. Make it make sense. 125cc teaches roll speed and clutch , we need em. Make 250 and 450 both premier classes

[@stevedouglas1654]

Even some of the new 300cc 2 strokes are $10,000 - $12,000 !

[@jeffcombs2950]

It's the same price they've been for the last 35 years, when adjusted; the difference being today you get a much better motorcycle. Still think you're getting screwed?

[@braaap6292]

Facts, people forgot how inflation works. An RM250 stickered at $5899 in 2001. That's $10760 in 2024 money. Bikes really haven't gotten more expensive.

[@CaddyJim]

Similarly the AMA needs to allow the 250 2-Stroke to race to 250 4-Stroke the 2-Strokes are cheaper especially the race & maintain this would benefit the smaller teams & privateers. It would also help the normies there were far more people riding recreationally in the 90s & 2000s then today because of cost This will also benefit the racing not just because 2-stroke fans would enjoy it but you race them differently which would open up different lines on the track

[@theread3480]

No pro who is serious about their results is going to choose the 250 2 stroke over the 250f. 4 strokes power delivery is just objectively better for racing, ESPECIALLY in supercross where low end torque is one of the most important factors. Another really important factor for racing is comfortability. 4 strokes are just easier to ride and don’t punish mistakes are harshly as 2 strokes do. When you’re 27 minutes into a 30 minute moto and your body is screaming at you and you can barely hold onto the bike anymore the 4 stroke is going to be the wayyyy better bike in that situation. Ricky Carmichael said that a predictable and comfortable bike is better than a bike that just makes the most power.

[@CaddyJim]

@@theread3480 what Ricky was talking about wasn't the difference between 2-stroke & 4-stroke. You are also correct when it comes to Supercross you can be more lazy with the torque of a 4-stroke using inside corners. It took more skill to race a 2-stroke Supercross but they should allow it & people can make the choice especially Outdoors like Canada & Australia were allowing. Besides Mike Alessi was having success on the 2-stroke in arenacross against 4-strokes in 2021-2023. My overall point they should allow it it's cheaper you erase it differently and if what you say is true anybody would choose the 4-stroke then they can do so but the 2-stroke should be available displacement for displacement 250 2 stroke vs 250 4 stroke they're similar in horsepower just applied differently the four-stroke has that low grunt torque & the 2-stroke the high revving horsepower

[@theread3480]

@@CaddyJim I agree with giving them the option to choose. I just wanted to give the reasons as to why the large majority of pros would still choose the 250f.

[@kylejo96]

If suzuki slapped a 125 in a modern aluminum frame.... their sales would double overnight

[@downshiftdan]

When are we gonna have Michael Ray Craig on the show??

[@jjjjrrr678]

In the UK... I will start motocross soon and would like to start on a 125 but heck they are expensive... Same price then a 350f and I need to mix oil and change pistons all the time... No point. Electric can be made way cheaper and that is what is exploding.

[@chadcurler5659]

Ping and Jace are the Art Eckmon of my kids generation. Iconic greats

[@MikesWorld1]

It’s also now $40-$50 per class if you want to race at most places. That’s just insanity. There is nothing affordable about motocross anymore. I make a lot of money and had two kids racing and we had to give it up. I just can’t justify the cost. I was spending nearly $1k per weekend. As someone else pointed out in the comments, KTM and Cobra 50’s are $6k and need more maintenance and cost more to keep up with than big bikes. It’s asinine. I still have the trailer and all the stuff but got rid of the race bikes. Now one kid has an ATV and the other has a KLX110RL and we just ride for fun one weekend a month and have a few free places to ride. Gave up racing for football and baseball.

[@chrisdadigger1018]

If you know how to keep a 125 on the pipe is faster than the 250r four strokes. Problem is they take a greater skill set to go fast than a four stroke.

[@tylersvensson4468]

Many kids have went from a supermini to a 125 especially kids that were meant for a factory ride or sponsored by a manufacturer. But when it’s time to get on a 250f they’re playing catch up compared to everyone else. Unless there was an actual 125 class in professional racing that allowed amateurs race then there wouldn’t be a point. The only person I can say that it worked out for was haiden deegan, he done a few races on a 125 and switched between a supermini and 125 but he was immediately on a 250f after Lorettas on the supermini. A 125 is very cheap although it’s just not competitive enough to race 250f maybe a 250 2 stroke but ama won’t let that happen because there selfish and money hungry. It works amazing here in Europe with emx250 or just in general 250 vs 250

[@bucklesfilms]

As a teenage kid who pays for moto and everything else on my own, make a cheaper bike. I dont even have a truck, i spent it all on used 125 that i had to dump more money into making it race ready.

[@rikkilee9409]

CHENG_SHIN I remember that name from 91

[@robertgowdey]

Is Ping putting on spray tan like his favorite president

[@kevinlundin9971]

You can thank the AMA for where the sport is today when they limited 2strokes to half thee cc’s to the 4 stroke 😢Congratulations AMA for killing it for 75% of the public.

[@scottieskatan4219]

1000% agree..... ..

[@walterdemo2895]

Built an all new 2T CRF125RB for my kid. Light super fast & cheap to maintain. Fook what the manufacturers wanna sell!

[@Slotmassacre]

Min wage is like $40,000 year now in the Mecca of moto. Kids part time jobs are $20 an hour ping, not $4.25 anymore

[@funkNretro]

Race bikes aside some affordable trail bikes would be nice. Most people can't out ride the performance of a kdx200 or a xr400 yet we live in the time of the $13,000 2 stroke trail bike.

[@juanky19]

Bring back the kickstarter! ✌

[@kylejo96]

Were gonna change out all the low end parts anyways...at full price we do it without batting an eye

[@Stroopwaffe1]

I gave up mx at 16 in 1991, the state of mx in UK now is shocking and should be a template of what not to do. No double jumps was something the likes of Dave Thorpe and Kurt Nicole would complain to the clerk of the course to have em scrubbed out.

[@beefwhiskers]

If Suzuki released a RM250 in the existing RMZ frame, I would pay KTM money for that thing

[@martincannondale2442]

the two-stroke racing engine was the most beautiful thing there was for the race? As the engine factories are doing now, they are setting themselves up for their own destruction

[@sparkymccallister5981]

Race the best bikes.. Why is it based on strokes...It's a displacement class... 125, 250, 500... Choose your weapon....

[@unstoppableplayz6948]

Agreed!💯 Run what ya brung, as long as it's within the displacement parameters.

[@mfmonthefmf]

True that its not as easy to find used 2T's these days

[@nbitt1319]

Truth.

[@Null-h6c]

it used to be 50 cc 60cc 80 cc 125 cc

[@thomasrenfrow609]

I bet JS#259's 125 had more balls than a stock 250 nowadays.

[@Dan_Minton]

Because it was a 144 😅

[@Michigancvhi]

Have you guys seen the prices of 85s…

[@zimmermanlandscape9287]

Cheap tires is an awesome idea.

[@Slotmassacre]

Yea this $120 BS is ridiculous

[@chrisdadigger1018]

David pingree looks like nascars Eric jones. They look like doppelgängers.

[@dylanjames4537]

Well well well....2 strokes are where its at

[@user-mm1nt1it5v]

Honda doesnt even have an 85 let alone 125. Almost nobody has a 65. Yamaha was smart to create one recently.

[@happyman8488]

5k e bikes will work. My 125 and 250 two stroke was more expensive to maintain than my yz 450.

[@BorderlandTerriers]

I grew up in the 1980's 1990's early 2000's then walked away from the sport when bikes cost as much as a car. 10k I remember my last cr 250 I paid 4800.00 out the door my 125 was 4k out the door. Now motocross is no longer a blue collar sport it's turning into Nascar. Said my 2 cents. Good luck in the future.

[@AJKinetic1]

No, there DOES NEED to be a 125 race class. The 250 class should be a national class that runs all 17 rounds of sx and mx. There needs to be a 125 east and 125 west as the support class. There is time in the race schedule. Just don't televise it. This isn't that hard. The manufacturers will follow if the AMA leads.

[@jamesjobe927]

You’re completely right, but look at the root of the problem. Financing is the issue. You wouldn’t let a 16year old kid sign a loan for a brand new KTM because he can’t afford it, but the adults do it all the time! Prices keep going up because we keep paying!! There’s nothing wrong with a new yz125 kick start. If adults stop buying more than they need, the next generation of kids will have their chance with the used bikes.

[@henrybuzzard4705]

Whats crazy I went to visit my sister in Costa Rica a yz250 was $4,300 125 was 2,800 smh are price are tripled in the states just went to look at a 125 they want 6,700 and had a 450 for 11,500

[@halseyknox]

Two strokes rule ....the AMA and factorys and industry fears the superiority of them, thats why you have to race a 125 in the 25O class and a 250 in the 450 class ..."F" the AMA and four strokes

[@braaap6292]

I'd cream my pants if Suzuki brought back the RM125 & 250 in the exact form they were in before they were discontinued.

[@teresastephens2642]

Yamaha still makes a 2 stroke 125.

[@SteffsGarage]

Specilized "worth" $13k???? Well you oaid $13k but its not WORTH $13k

[@seangavingregory4367]

Everything is far too expensive fellas.

[@levileatherman2055]

I would buy an rm 125 ....2004 2006 spec all day like best 125 to ride for any level at a stock level.. bilky down the street could ride it an the pros could beat it like a meth head in a trailer park

[@lawrencefranck9417]

Spec motors, stock forks and shocks and spec tires.

[@kylejo96]

It helped haiden

[@angrydiesel1897]

Love Ping!!! And Jase, STFU and let him talk.

[@freddunbar]

Honda, Kawasaki, and Suzuki should sell the patent rights to their old 125 and 250's to China. The pit bike market blew up due to all the Chinese knock off pit bikes based on the XR50 and KLX110. @GYPSYTALES gpxmoto is already doing KTM 250 and 300 enduro knockoffs, so someone like Pasha Afshar could probably convince them to make a 250 MX and/or a 125 MX if there is a class for it. Call it the PoorBoy class.