How Could Adam and Eve Disobey God Before Sin Entered the World?

[@westoftherockies]

the argument that you need an autonomous freewill in order to love God is Flawed, first of all nobody loves God unless christ opens their eyes as to who he is and what he did for them on the cross, the carnal mind is emnity with God, with no spiritual discernment or understanding you cannot know what christ did for you and that free gift 1 corinthians 2 > 1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God its not possible to believe the gospel without regeration, its possible to be religious and have some kind of works salvation and sing jesus songs etc, but to actually know its his dying and sheding his blood for you as the sole reason for salvation it takes an indwelling of the HS....God's love is powerfull and effectual, it causes coversion when its applied, its 100% effective and God doesn't need to "force" anything,, the word is CAUSE, not force, God's love toward his Elect CAUSES the person to believe, Faith is Given in order for the person to believe the gospel. Act 18:27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: "which had believed through grace:" the word "through" there is causal, Grace causes Belief in christ [that is belief of the gospel] his giving a person faith which comes by hearing, we receive grace by hearing God speak to us and i wouldn't even say thats physical hearing, although that is the main method God uses to covert people there are exception, God himself without anyone at all can covert anyone anywhere, they will spiritualy know him, they might not even be able to articualte anything but inwardly their spirit will now christ...both john the baptist and jeremiah both had the HS before they were even born.

[@iknow1767]

alizarin what spirit made Lucifer sin?

[@terri4340]

HERE'S THE ANSWER: NO ONE KNOWS. NOT A SOUL....ONLY GOD...

[@MikeKelso]

Even god doesnt know

[@Jambuc829]

How can they choose to sin if they didn’t know what sin was or evil. It’s like me telling you. Pick between Thumpioner or qfgtyuiop one of these things is wrong and one is right. You don’t even know what they are so why would I punish you for making the wrong choice?

[@soldenoche3]

They knew the difference between good and bad. Satan lied to Eve!

[@SirDaddyGru]

If love is volitional will we love god in a sinless "heaven" that is necessarily void of free will?

[@SirDaddyGru]

The answer is no.

[@disguisedcentennial835]

@@SirDaddyGru begging the question. Heaven is not devoid of free will.

[@daveryland7731]

Ok, I get the analogy . . . it's not real love if I hold a gun to your head and demand love . . . but, what about holding an eternal lake of fire to our heads? Does that not influence the nature of our love for God? When we profess our sins, repent and accept Jesus as our savior, are we loving God or ourselves?

[@BibleAnswerMan]

@daveryland7731 Hell never actually produces feigned loyalty. Authentic faith is never about people being coerced into identifying and practicing the faith for fear of eternal damnation. Use of fear to control the masses is unsustainable. All totalitarian regimes use fear tactics, but they never last, and eventually come to an end - very often extremely violent ends. Hell is instead separation for those who unrelentingly oppose God. Hell is the only prison with doors unlocked left wide open. It is a terrible quarantine for the damned, but the damned resent the alternative, - entering into glory, seeing the Lord seated high upon His throne, hearing the angels and saints singing, Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God Almighty, falling upon the ground and declaring Jesus Christ to be King of kings, and Lord of lords. The damned despised the heavenly things throughout their earthly life, and they remain set in despising them in the afterlife, so God honors their choice, which is prison in hell..

[@BlackAbe007]

If Adam could not keep a simple rule in Paradise, what chance have I got???

[@soldenoche3]

Well, we don't need to anything, He did it for us and made us more than conquerors! So, have peace brother!

[@disguisedcentennial835]

Exactly. That’s why you need to bow to Christ, for his blood will cover you.

[@markc2940]

I've been struggling with this thought for a long time too. I just can't grasp the idea of imperfection in a perfect world. This also makes me question the idea of heaven. In a new heaven and new earth, the idea that one can sin again is there. If it's really about love, we still should be able to love or not in a new heaven and new earth. Hence the whole book starts all over again. If God is the same in the past, today and forever, his laws will remain in the new heaven and new earth. The struggle is real on this one.

[@BibleAnswerMan]

@markc2940 Hank addresses your question on having the ability to sin in heaven here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d2mkdXlur5aEmqs

[@kimbronun6649]

When you finally realize your made out of the eternal substance God is made of, you will have Heaven on Earth. All things in this realm serve a purpose, all things.

[@robbo916]

There is only one possible answer to this question - Adam was MEANT to fall! God is in control of everything and His plan is perfect from start to end and the end is coming soon!

[@jasonpellegrini7148]

Adam was not meant to fall as calvanists believe. No more, than man is meant to rape, murder and abuse children, again, as calvanists believe. Man has free will. Isreal wanted a man king so god allowed it. It wasnt Gods perfect will but he allowed it. Just as he allows man to rebel or obey.

[@robbo916]

@@jasonpellegrini7148 Nothing that happens is not in God's perfect will, and the fall was required. Notice that right after the fall, Adam gave his wife her name because she was the mother of ALL LIVING (Genesis 3:20). What do you think this means?

[@noreenebostick9593]

This made more sense so the devil can see that man with sun loves God, worship God, seeks for God, want to know who God is and never seen God. The devil was head of music, the light bearer, seen God but disobeyed God and turned away from what God has and still doing actions to make humans turn against God and not want God. It is never too late to learn. The devil had lots of angels follow him and doing actions to make humans follow him.

[@robbo916]

@mr.scottsn So please explain Genesis 3:20

[@cryptojihadi265]

That's absurd. Sure, God KNEW man would fall, but that hardly means he was MEANT to fall. Christ was slain from the foundation of the world as God knew man would require salvation, but again, does not mean that was God's will. LOTS of things happen in this world that are not God's will. Just because someone is sovereign doesn't mean they control everything or force everything to happen. When God condemned the Israelites for sacrificing their children, God said, not only is it NOT something I wanted, it NEVER entered His mind. So clearly God did not mean or WILL the Israelites to engage in child sacrifice or rape or all the other abominations that they committed, and the world continues to commit to this day. There is NO evil or darkness in God, to accuse Him of WILLING all the bad things that have happened in this world is the height of blasphemy. Just because he can bring good out of the most awful things, just means He IS good and all powerful and therefore has the ability to perform such miracles, but still doesn't mean that's what He wanted to happen.

[@tisoytingkuling381]

How can we be sure if a christian go to heaven and he will not do the same mistake that Lucifer does and Adam and Eve in the garden to use their will and commit sin again?

[@BibleAnswerMan]

@Tisoy Tingkuling - Hank answers your question in this video > kzbin.info/www/bejne/paWlaGucfJqsrrM

[@Demonoicgamer666]

Perfection and free will is a contradiction because for free will to exist it means messing up is possible. I don’t even know what perfection looks like.

[@BibleAnswerMan]

@thewhynotgamer842 Our truest freedom is experienced in union with God through Jesus Christ. Of course, love shared between God and man is never coerced. Humans love out of their own volition. The raw deal is that rejection of God is possible, but rejection of God never gives one true freedom but enslavement. Sin diminishes one’s freedom. But one can still become unfettered from entanglements of sin to in the highest manner freely love God. See www.equip.org/articles/how-does-free-will-affect-faith/

[@Demonoicgamer666]

@@BibleAnswerMan there’s no freedom like enslaving yourself to abusive relationships where if you don’t love him you’ll be in physical and mental torture forever because god makes it clear our actions means nothing to him unless you submit your life and eternal soul to him, yeah that’s not a abusive relationship at all.

[@BibleAnswerMan]

@thewhynotgamer842 Incorrect. You start with a misapprehension about God and the peril of hell falls upon the one who rejects their Maker. What brings you wholeness and blessedness as a creature bearing the imago-Dei is to be in union with God, but yo willfully and consciously despise that can only be self-imposed enslavement to nihilistic despair and the hell of separation from God. Our existence is potentially infinity, with beginning and without end, and if are unrelentingly oppose God, then we shall remain exiled from God's kingdom, which is a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. See www.equip.org/articles/in-defense-of-the-churchs-traditional-doctrine-of-hell/ and www.equip.org/articles/the-justice-of-hell/

[@Demonoicgamer666]

@@BibleAnswerMan nothing brings me wholesomeness but knowing theirs someone I love and trust, if you met me you’d know I’m a walking talking existential crisis, who struggles to trust himself. I have gotten better at trusting myself but I’d be lying if I said I respected myself as I respect others, the only reason I’m alive is because there are people I trust. Even if I did believe in a god he wouldn’t fix the self worth issues I have. I’m not a nihilist because I am still alive.

[@ravenwilliams7394]

Question: Did flesh only become sinful after Eve’s disobedience, or was it Already because it was formed from the dirt?

[@BibleAnswerMan]

God created all things both physical or spiritual, material and immaterial, body and soul. Our physical bodies were never meant to be corrupted by sin. It is on account of Adam and Eve that we become subject to sin, death, and decay. Fallen people experience fleshly impulses to sin, but such was never the original state of the body. The physical world is still meant to be good. God made it. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Christ risen from the dead, He ascended to heaven, He will return again. In all this, the body of Christ has never experienced decay. Christ is alive and well today and forevermore. God will raise us from the dead. God will even restore cosmos, putting an end to sin. See www.equip.org/bible_answers/will-created-cosmos-resurrected-annihilated/

[@Gonzoweirdo1]

This is why John Lennon of The Beatles wrote “Imagine.”

[@micahhook3576]

They didn't know what a lie was when listening to the serpent. You think God would've warned them instead of god just saying don't eat. Someone says "don't eat" and the other says "do eat" how are you supposed to know?

[@griedd]

they knew god was their creator that’s the thing. Satan after he was fallen tempted eve because that is his nature since god let go of him. Gods word was supposed to be the authority but eve didn’t listen

[@iknow1767]

ogsharp what spirit created evil? Where did evil come from to summon itself on Lucifer’s mind?

[@KaylaSwan640]

they were supposed to OBEY God with no questions asked.

[@micahhook3576]

@@KaylaSwan640 where are you getting this from? Genesis never says god told them to obey only him

[@KaylaSwan640]

@@micahhook3576 When God told them not to eat the fruit, they were supposed to obey his command. When they didn't listen, they disobeyed him, it's pretty simple.

[@davidevans2217]

Lucifer it mentions a serpent not lucifer. Where did you get Lucifer from. Read the text.

[@SegaSavageMusic]

Sin in old days was called sine which later became time so that explains this also when God said we are born into original sin that means we are born into original time kind of hints at other times streams or dimensions but this is the original first one

[@EsihleHlengwa-f5p]

If the free will led to the devil being disobedient then subsequently Adam and eve then the devil is not a problem but the free will itself. That will mean that for as long as there is free will then disobedience will always arise even in the absence of the devil.

[@BibleAnswerMan]

@EsihleHlengwa-f5p That us a pessimistic way of looking at freewill. But flawed too. The will would then accounts for human capacity to love unconditionally. The love one has for God is self-generated from the will as opposed to predetermined by an external factor. See www.equip.org/articles/how-does-free-will-affect-faith/ and www.equip.org/articles/is-divine-determinism-biblical/

[@TheGreaser9273]

Sin WAS in the world before the fall! Romans 5:13 "For sin was in the world before the law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law."

[@disguisedcentennial835]

The Law is the Torah, dude. Before Moses is what he’s saying.

[@TheGreaser9273]

@@disguisedcentennial835 Not sure what you're saying. I am saying sin was in the world before Adam and Eve 'sinned'.

[@AlstonMurray]

​@@TheGreaser9273He was saying that sin was in the world before Moses gave the law. Not necessarily before Adam and Eve. If I said my parents were alive before I was alive, that does not mean there were alive since the beginning of time

[@TheGreaser9273]

Well, you would have to explain how and when sin came into the world without the law? Which Paul seems to suppose was always there before.@@AlstonMurray

[@kimbronun6649]

It proves that God created all that is and all is purposeful

[@BibleAnswerMan]

@kimbronun6649 Appreciate the input.

[@quakers200]

When God does worse than a 45 to the head by eternal torture as the consequence for not loving him then where is free will in that? Free will becomes much more complex and uncertain when god knows everything including what is in our hearts.

[@BibleAnswerMan]

@quakers200 What is the point?

[@theGellyfeesh]

Why did Satan sin? Because he wanted to be like God. Why did Adam and Eve sin? Because Satan lied to Eve and the fruit was appealing to be like God. Free will can choose evil. it's pretty simple.

[@BibleAnswerMan]

@theGellyfeesh input appreciated.

[@SegaSavageMusic]

I can help with this the true meaning of sin is in ancient times sin was spoken as sine which later became time. Take a look at a calculator you will see Cosi and Sin or space and time. The reason we all die Cos I Sin we die because we are trapped in time in space. The Bible says we are born into original sin which is the original time line. How would up ever beat down for thinkers if you didn't have down how would you know you was going up or vise versa for that matter good will never beat evil they coexist as one in the same like life and death. Think of this like a rainbow on one end you have white and on the other you have black but still one in the same. One last thing fur those who really get it just cause the sun goes up and down and you go to sleep doesn't change this moment we are all born and die on the same day. The sun and sleep do not control existence if you like this channel check out cardinal Richard ruff creation

[@J-PLeigh8409]

God is Sovereign & love is only truly love w/ free will. ~ 1 Peter 1:19-21 But w/ the precious blood of Christ, as of a Lamb w/ out blemish & w/ out spot; Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in last times for you, Who by Him do believe in God, that raised Him up from the dead, & gave Him glory, that your faith & hope may be in God. ~ Eph 3: 9-11 & to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ; To the intent that now unto the principalities & powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, according to the eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord

[@peterparler3246]

If you have free will, then God is not sovereign

[@jenniferlloyd7482]

Adam and Eve were innocent in the garden, not perfect (Tamim-complete, sound, without blemish, perfect). When they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they lost their innocence. They became beings that knew good and evil, but they lacked the ability to choose the good, as they were created in the image of God, like a mirror, not made of the actual substance of God, like Jesus.

[@benbrewer5853]

They probably had free will to choose Lucifer had free will to choose he wanted he wants to be like the most high and almost sounds like you might have a jealous heart be jealous of God

[@eLus1ve2991]

How did sin enter? The creator gave “Free Will” The serpent was explained in Genesis to be more cunning and clever than any other beast in the field (Satan) is clever in his tactics... God had warned not to eat of a specific tree.... Satan was in sin as soon as his “thoughts” became prideful “For you have said in your heart, i will ascend to the stars and be like the most high” Satan thru the serpent and serpent thru man... But just as death came thru man So also does the ressurection of death comes through man (messiah).... Just as one gave sin to the world So can ONE taketh away the sin of the world (Messiah)

[@ididit2791]

How did satan’s thoughts become prideful? What spirit invested in that?

[@eLus1ve2991]

I Did It jeremiah 17:9The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

[@davidevans2217]

Satan I cant see satan in the text only the serpent???

[@rg442]

none of this is scriptural.

[@682justin]

Not satisfactory

[@texantony2410]

That is the worst answer ever 🙄. The reason why pastors answer in this way is because they're decived into believing man has a free will. Btw, Satan was never good just fyi. JOHN 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him”

[@nicholascarter6543]

I take it you are a hyper Calvinist. (Maybe I am wrong but what you said assumes it;nothing personal brother...❤️) People DO have a free will! Joshua 24:15. God’s very call to ALL to repent and His very desire FOR ALL to be saved is PROOF in itself that we CAN choose do respond to God Himself or turn our own way and be dammed and separated. Still aren’t sure brother? I’ll help, Isaiah 45:19. Isaiah 45:22. God is not calling us to do something that we cannot do without Him (WE CANT) THAT is why He ordered the world the way He did SO THAT we CAN respond to His call BUT only few are chosen AND YES IT IS GRACE ONLY. If God left us alone in the dark,we would not seek Him on our own unless He created the world with indicators EVERYWHERE that CLEARLY POINT to Him ie flowers,trees,wind,sky,scents, relationships,puppies,a mother’s care and a father’s helpful guidance,a message from a friend who said EXACTLY what you needed to hear ect MOST of all His Holy Spirit is actively convicting the whole entire world of sin,righteousness and judgement (according to Christ before His ascension to Heaven). So,brother in Christ, we do have a free will BUT it is bent to serve Satan SOOO God,in His mercy,grace and Love HAS PROVIDED sufficient evidence and scents of Himself on the trail of life SO THAT NO ONE IS WITHOUT EXCUSE. GOD HAS MADE IT PLAIN TO THEM. WE CAN CHOOSE! God has ordained that we make FREE choices and He alone is Sovereign over those choices. God wants all to be saved and none to perish but people perish at their own hands. It’s not arbitrary and there is no mystery to the FACT (Biblically) that we human beings are made in the image of God and THAT includes the ABILITY to make choices based on desire,observation or self reliance or whatever means. The best way to use your God given free will is to ASK Him how to use it wisely according to His will AND NOT YOURS. My dear beloved brother,please see this after you pray and read His written word. He will show us what we need to see and tell us what we need to hear BUT ONLY if we will choose to acknowledge Him and His way,not ours.. yes,we do have free will WITHIN the boundaries of the the domain God has placed each individual that they might seek Him out and feel for Him through the darkness and perhaps find Him. God never calls us to do anything that we cannot do without Him BUT He does call us to do what we can only do BECAUSE of Him and His provisions for mankind. P.S. I do not think this pastor’s example of putting a gun to one’s head and say “love me or else” THAT was not a good example because the atheist may reply “isn’t that exactly what God does to people who go to Hell?” Hell is a place and not a gun that God uses to MAKE people love Him! It is the punishment for WILLINGLY REJECTING Christ and eternal punishment is the verdict. I understand the pastor’s point but he could have used a better example,I think because it’s a little misleading;not completely false to the nature BUT nevertheless it is misleading to use the gun analogy in this question. Also, I agree with some of Calvinism and I also agree with some Arminianism points as well as disagree on both ends to certain EXTREMES such as the claim that we don’t have a free will. We would be robots without a free will. There is mystery but there is no mystery in what He HAS REVEALED TO US. WE CAN TRUST HIM. Don’t listen to men. Don’t even listen to me,man. Listen to God. You already know what to do. I don’t have to tell you.