How Did

Jon Birger explains how #MeToo changed the dating market. Did #MeToo make it harder to date? Does playing hard to get work? How do women’s dating strategies need to change? Why are men scared of approaching women? Is Dateonomics right? What does Jon Birger think about the future of dating?
#dating #relationships #metoo
-
Join the Modern Wisdom Community on Locals - modernwisdom.l...
Listen to all episodes on audio:
Apple Podcasts: apple.co/2MNqIgw
Spotify: spoti.fi/2LSimPn
-
Get in touch in the comments below or head to...
Instagram: / chriswillx
Twitter: / chriswillx
Email: chriswillx.com...

[@ChrisWillx]

Watch the full episode with Jon - kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmnUonZ4l8SFgqM

[@ClassPunkOnRumbleAndSubstack]

Chris should talk to Shaunti Feldhahn, her statistics in some of her books are about gender differences in relationships, but I think they still can relate somewhat to dating. I think she's written one of the greatest books on understanding women romantically and one of the greatest books on understanding men romantically.

[@Nightdiver20]

Playing hard to get when you're already hard to want is a losing strategy.

[@arthursalas8010]

🤣🤣🤣

[@alelectric2767]

Haha!! Well put.

[@ClassPunkOnRumbleAndSubstack]

100%.

[@margotmartindale8501]

It took me a while to learn this hard truth about myself. When I was single I was being an asshole to men who were out of my league when I was truly no prize myself. My boyfriend now keeps me humble lol

[@AlBundy65432]

@@margotmartindale8501 it takes guts to admit that you were normal like the rest of us when your convinced that your special.

[@dmncliv]

It’s no longer the risk of rejection. It’s the risk of false accusations - that could lead to permanent consequences that Men fear the most.

[@mighty_wolf]

Facts

[@justlorelle4249]

False accusations were/are always a risk for men, just as verbal or physical assault were/are always a risk for women. The world isn't a safe space, & bad people exist. Relationships are about compromise, support & companionship, which are built over time.... but commitment is scary, a wrong choice can severely alter your life. People are picky for shallow selfish reasons these days. No one knows what they want or how to express it.

[@carlosreid51]

Most women aren't petty but it's still a risk of a false allegation by a regretful feminist

[@justlorelle4249]

@@carlosreid51 most men aren't abusey or rapey, but it's still a risk of abuse or an assault off some MRA..... sorry, off some bad man. It's not "feminists" in particular, it's bad women, the heavy grade lesbians aren't leading any guys on to the point of #metoo, only 7% of women in the UK even identify as feminists so it's probably time people stopped blaming them for every female sin. Bad people come in all kinds of packages.

[@alaalfa8839]

World is full of entitlement. Smart men and women usually are so smart that it never occures to them to be entitled arrogant. The smartest and most talented people are very humble…. That they feel shamed to put someone down. Yet good looking celebrities act entitled, because they think that it will open them the door everywhere. Some good looking ones can be also very humble though and most though. Notice if someone is extremelly talented, for example in music, playng some violin… Notice that these people work so hard that they are extremely humble to everybody, they dont have time to be arrogant and entitled, because they have passion…. The most boring people and bored people are entitled arrogant.

[@Miranox2]

The core problem is that modern society gave people the power to publicly smear someone with zero evidence. An accusation alone can ruin most men. Relationships are a minefield.

[@Miranox2]

@M J That is indeed one of the most clear examples. Even after being proven innocent in court because there was clear evidence the accuser lied, it didn't matter. He avoided jail but his life is ruined.

[@philbrutsche8928]

Amber Heard/Johnny Depp is one example. Amber accused Johnny of being verbally and physically abusive, and the world immediately believed her. The truth was the reverse.

[@margotmartindale8501]

There used to be a website women could get on and share information with eachother about men from their dates. It felt like a good thing to warn about dangerous men at first, but it quickly turned into just talking shit about men who were actually decent. It got shut down pretty quickly.

[@sta5011]

People were happier without a platform to rant on back then now its rabid

[@Solitaire001]

@@margotmartindale8501 This reminds me of a segment in the movie "Amazon Women on the Moon" starring Steven Guttenberg and Rosana Arquette. A man comes over to a woman's apartment for a date. Before she will go on the date with him she requests his credit card so she can run it through a Vetting Machine. She does so, and the Vetting Machine prints out a very detailed report of every single interaction he has had with his previous dates, both what they did like and didn't like. The date ends with her because he did too many things that his previous dates didn't like. The segment ends with him calling up a different woman for a date, and she requests that he bring a credit card.

[@fearthehoneybadger]

Being accused of sexual assault for talking to a woman works wonders for trying to build a relationship.

[@jonmichaelgalindo]

A woman approaches a man at a bar, then the next day says she was drunk. Just stay away.

[@jonmichaelgalindo]

And if you think "get married first", a wife can cheat on her husband, and the court will give her the house, the car, sole custody of the children, and demand child support.

[@new_game2589]

When you're accused you make the front page of the paper, when you're acquitted it's buried somewhere in the back. The damage is done either way, there will always be people who want to believe you're a pos regardless of the truth.

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

🎞 Yeah, check out 'The Hunt' (2012) starring Mads Mikkelsen sometime.

[@angelus_solus]

Not gonna lie, I would love if some woman started chatting me up. Not because I'm lazy about dating, but it would make me feel like she values me enough to talk to and she's bold and assertive. Those two traits are a major turn on. Probably won't ever happen, but a guy can wish I suppose.

[@justlorelle4249]

Hey tall dark and handsome, what's a respectable man like you doin' in a dive like this? 😉

[@angelus_solus]

@@justlorelle4249 Yeah, something like that for example. Seriously though, I did get a bit of a laugh out of that. Thanks. I needed it.

[@justlorelle4249]

@@angelus_solus job done. Middle aged singletons have to laugh, it's all that's left🤣

[@angelus_solus]

@@justlorelle4249 Sadly, it is all that's left I'm afraid. At least it feels that way. Maybe one day someone will show me there is more than that.

[@justlorelle4249]

@@angelus_solus I was going to make a Dr Who joke, but unfortunately he went Woke after Capaldi & I no longer have the heart for it. Being happy is impossible, cotently single is my goal.... not there yet, but at least I don't have to argue about reality in my own house (except now & then when my daughter stays, teenagers are meant to be difficult tho', so I can cope with that)🤣🤣

[@technic1285]

1:22 It's funny how no one (dating expert or otherwise) ever says anything to defend men. Not that that's a problem or anything.

[@eugenegm]

Toxic femininity.

[@etoineschrdlu9382]

I am a widower. It wasn't long after my wife died that I realized a few facts. First, I was no longer in the "Prime of Life" and that most women, even ones around my age, desired men 5-15 years younger than myself. Beyond that, these women felt entitled to date "out of their league" and felt insulted that a man my age would dare ask them out because they believe they are "out of my league." Second, that the dating market itself was severely constricted due to Third Wave Feminism, Me-Too, and all the other politically correct movements currently going on. Jon talks about the "Fear of saying or doing the wrong thing." I have no fear of that: *I know I'll be saying or doing the wrong thing!* I'm too old not to. It does not take much to attract the HR department's attention, so don't even *think* about asking a co-worker out. It used to be easy: you could assume that a single woman was simply a single woman, but now they might be lesbian, or "identify" as some gender that is incompatible with cis males. You can't tell and you can ask or you might lose you job or wind up in jail. Women now have so many entitlements and men have been told not to expect any at all.: we have to cautiously ask permission at each step or be accused of a multitude of "Micro-Aggressions". There are too many missteps, too many dangers, and there's little or no reward for fishing in the dark.

[@mrs.garcia6978]

Meanwhile my almost 50 yo husband, in a blue collar field, gets hit on constantly by the 40+ divorcée and 30s but never married crowd…🧐. (A few 20s with daddy issues thrown in too.) and yeah he is just himself, no tip-toeing.

[@etoineschrdlu9382]

@@mrs.garcia6978 Don't tell me. He's over 6 feet tall, rugged good looks, and in excellent physical shape. In other words, he's always been in the top 10% of men that all women chase after. Am I right? But he's *not* over 50 yet, correct? Men find women of prime child bearing age (18-28) most desirable, but OTOH women find men between 40-55 years of age to be in the prime and very attractive because they are good providers. My wife died when I was 58.

[@laumay7364]

C.K Louis joked that at 40 his best years were behind him. I think that’s an absurd way to think about life. Women are attracted to men who aren’t depressed and pessimistic.

[@terrorbilly1]

@@etoineschrdlu9382 You're right for the most part (physical aspect). The fact that Mrs. Garcia's husband is a blue collar worker doesn't make him top 10-percenter though.

[@etoineschrdlu9382]

@@terrorbilly1 Don't forget that some women are just looking for a short term physical relationship: the pool boy, a construction worker, the plumber, or HVAC repairman. OTOH, a few women have realistic expectations and realize that a construction worker *can* earn respectable wages. Like the Democrats, they're "Lowering their expectations."

[@battenberg7111]

Vvomen are high risk. I value my sanity.

[@D.Ark-0]

Makes you wonder how all the women who want more aggressive men to constantly pursue them have to rethink that perhaps they should just stop playing hot and cold with the men they like. If you like the guy just say yes.

[@cthuwulhu9275]

The problem is women want the man to make the first step. And also jump through hoops (how many depends on the woman) to show that she is really desired. And that's the favorable position to be in. It means less stressing out about being cheated on and generally having the upper hand in the relationship ("you want to be with me, after all, I just said why not").

[@D.Ark-0]

@@cthuwulhu9275 so it would be a sort of insecurity on their end? I can understand what you’re saying. I can see these days (I think it was mentioned in the full interview) that due to many changes it’s now coming to the point where women are actually expected to make an effort regardless.

[@cthuwulhu9275]

@@D.Ark-0 Yes and no. I mean a lot of men aren't comfortable with marrying a woman who earns more money than them which you could call insecurity. Maybe it is, but generally people say "he's insecure" when they try to mock someones decision. The insecurity is perfectly justified, after all you "invested" at least emotionally into the relationship, you do not want it to fall apart and since women are attracted to status a woman who earns more than you is quite likely to meet men who earn more than you and decide they are more attractive. The same goes for women, too, they too can be insecure about loosing their partner. And arguably through centuries of evolution where a man walking away had some real consequences for the woman, women are more insecure. But there's also the cold, calculating version. If someone does something that might be really embarassing like a grand romantic marriage proposal chance is they put up with quite a bit of mistreatment to keep you around. Otoh of course having a woman depending on your income also means you can mistreat her. I do agree though, that probably a lot of men are not willing to play by the modern rules anymore.

[@D.Ark-0]

@@cthuwulhu9275 I like your post. Very well put together. The traditional ways have their reason that carried us throughout human history. Now that we’ve come with a lot of changes at an quick rate I think no one had the moment to adjust and rethink anything. Idk.

[@IamINERT]

@@cthuwulhu9275 😂 this logic. Let me tell you something by the time your done jumping through hoops and you finally get what you wanted and it turned out to be mediocre, your just gonna resent that person and leave. Then whats going to happen? she’s going to say all men are the same when in fact she’s the one who placed that on herself. Causing even more trouble for the next guy, just a cycle of short relationships until she end up settling with a guy who has no respect for himself.

[@paul715]

According to a researcher, "a more careful examination of the research suggests that 2-41% may be false." - O’Donohue, William T. "Understanding false allegations of sexual assault" (2019). I think the percentage may go up.

[@M0viLover]

2 to 41 percent?! That's a narrow range of out comes .. NOT!!

[@billsimms2511]

2-41%? That is such a wide scope

[@jillthinksimabreakfasttaco4904]

I most certainly will not pursue random women in the post Me Too era. I am open to women approaching me, even if it's just to engage in conversation. It's never happened to me before, but I would be flattered if it did. Even still, I reserve the right to decide whether to accept or reject any approaches. I'm generally a quiet guy, and if I'm not feeling talkative at that moment then I'll usually try to disengage. I'm not MGTOW and would love to find a wife someday, but I can't help but be extremely cautious in today's environment. I think there are safe ways for two people to meet each other in a way that does not create anxiety or misunderstandings. I generally use dating apps and/or dating services because there at least you know people are looking for the same things.

[@kingkosi]

Because of Feminism and Welfare, women have agency now. Since these topics are becoming more mainstram now (Kevin Samuels) men are starting to see female nature or hypergamy on full display. Modern western women, regardless of their economic status, how many children they've had out of wedlock, feel they are BETTER than the average man because of those two reasons I listed.

[@Miranox2]

Yep, the average woman is a 5 who's looking for an 8 or higher. Social media has warped their perspective.

[@kingkosi]

@@Miranox2 Social media isn't to blame, it's just their nature. Women are Hypergamous. Social media just gives them a theater to show it off.

[@margotmartindale8501]

Fascinating. I do think women have been taught to feel entitled to men and their resources. At least back in the day, women also brought something to the table, and it was a partnership. Now, women expect everything without contributing anything at all. Women don’t even have to be attractive anymore. I mean anyone can be a model nowadays no matter their looks or weight, I see it on clothing sites every day. We have no standards anymore.

[@brushstroke3733]

@@margotmartindale8501 Intelligence and thoughtfulness like you have displayed is ultimately far more attractive than physical appearance. Physical appearance is a powerful motivator for men to meet a woman, but once you've known someone for a few months, you stop noticing their physical appearance. If a woman has depth, she will become more attractive to her parters over time. If she has only looks, her partners will quickly get bored of her and look for other women to stimulate them.

[@warmflash]

Even if a woman makes a move toward you, it’s not safe to engage • It’s best to stay away • 2022 is a dangerous time for men •

[@brushstroke3733]

I wish I could give up on desire and relationships altogether. I feel like I'm "on the spectrum" when it comes to reading women and knowing how to have a natural conversation with them. They take my uncertainty and hestitation as a sign that I'm a poor quality mate.

[@margotmartindale8501]

Sometimes “fake it til you make it” works best. Women like confident men. Even if you don’t feel confident, behave like you are and the confidence will come with it.

[@brushstroke3733]

@@margotmartindale8501 I am unable to be inauthentic with myself like that. I wish I could. I understand that women like confident men, which is why I have given up on being what they want.

[@billsimms2511]

The only way to get over this problem is watch other men talk to women and pay close attention to what’s being said and the actions performed OR just keep talking to women. I recommend the second and just pay attention to how women react to what you say or do. Adapt

[@anara2724]

I’m so glad I found this channel

[@cobbler9113]

I got very lucky. My wife and I met online and it was her who made the first move by liking my profile. More than likely not happening in our parents' day but now it seems to be a lot more common.

[@julialeftwich7375]

And what about us older (old school) women, who don't want to make the first move and don't play games? It's all stuffed up for us too. It's a bloody minefield out there and I hate this modern world. Everything was so much simpler (and nicer) way back when.

[@julialeftwich7375]

@@The-DAWG957 I know. But it's biting everyone, not just that lot.

[@jaysess3806]

You good women need to put those crazy feminists and simps in place and throw them out of politics and power.

[@spiritquests3970]

I think older women should take some ownership too. Where were these women the last 40 years? Did ANY of you protest the poor treatment of men? No? Well, wen are getting exactly what they want. Hard to feel too sorry...

[@julialeftwich7375]

@@spiritquests3970 we've been busy working and bringing up children (many of us have done both - we aren't all princesses). And yes, many of us HAVE protested all of this since day one.

[@julialeftwich7375]

@@jaysess3806 I'm in South Africa and we have our own challenges - massive corruption, an economy that's been teetering on the brink of collapse for decades, identity politics of a different kind (and some of that kind too). The US has totally lost the plot and a bunch of other Western countries are following a close second. There's nothing most of us can do except call it out when we see it.

[@dequentinmiller9086]

All men have to do is not talk to women at work or in public unless you have to. If you carry yourself well a woman with CONFIDENCE will find you. Then that's your chance to show your confidence in leading that relationship AFTER you know she's interested. That's what I do and I've already had 3 different women wanting to not just start a relationship with me but to start a family. (I just wasn't ready for that commitment but it works)

[@alpha1481]

"No means No" repeatedly taught in school, work mandatory harrassment training. Over and Over. So.....Would you like to get coffee sometime? NO! Ok.....spaceghost. Guys now have zero choice, because they cannot guess motivation, but to take your words LITERALLY.

[@margotmartindale8501]

I really feel for men with these mixed messages they’re getting from women. I think women are just as confused, honestly. On one hand, women are taught to get married and have babies. On the other, we are taught to not rely on a man for anything and to be 100% independent and be career women and work our way to the top. So which is it? I don’t think women even know what they want.

[@gradualpull2171]

Making a move means actual effort, so women won't learn until it's too late and too sad.

[@bwake]

Look up Professor Monica Moore, of Webster University in St. Louis, MO. She began studying flirting in the late’70s. I attended a class she gave in the ‘80s. She demonstrated what to look for. It works below the conscious level. It grabbed me by the hindbrain, even though I knew it was only a demo.

[@newwavepop]

i dont know man, im 50 so im not young but i am also not old i went through my teens in the 80s and i guess i use to meet women at clubs and at concerts. but for the most part i never just approached women i didnt know or wasnt associated with in some way, because i never wanted to harass anyone. there were times when some girl and myself were clearly sharing little glances and smiles and it couldnt be missed, but most of the time i did not want to bother anyone. i am sort of an introvert and sort of a misanthrope, i dont like people coming over and bothering me unless it is someone i know and like or want to meet so likewise i never approached a girl unless as i said is was undeniable that we were noticing each other. and from my mid teens through my entire twenties i was not bad looking and was pretty popular and well known in my crowd my scene and there were girls that wanted to meet me, but still i was always hesitant to interrupt some girl i didnt know. i always observed people, even when i was only like 11 or something i saw women at the laundry mat or at the grocery store or just anywhere and always noticed that they couldnt do anything with out some douchey seeming guys trying to hit on them so i always had sympathy for women. and im a conservative guy im not some timid soy boy meek dude or something that was afraid of women i just found it to be basic common courtesy to not bother people and women are people.

[@margotmartindale8501]

I do think it is best to err on the side of caution, and you seem to have a wonderful sense of empathy. There are definitely women out there who would love to be approached, but it’s impossible to tell the difference between women who are open to it and women who will have absolutely none of it unless you already know them first.

[@ergophonic]

"You get the girl you're brave enough to talk to." ~ Theo Von

[@Cybertech134]

The problem is that women still expect a free meal, which they can't demand as easily when they have to ask first since "the one who asks pays". On top of that, women for the most part only find the top 20% of men attractive. This strategy is great on paper, but what that would turn into is a bunch of disappointed women who get rejected by the top-percenters they are attracted to.

[@carolyna.869]

I think how "hard to get" works in reality (which usually isn't even intentionally done many times) is the girl is nice to the guy and is totally herself around him because she thinks of it as a friendship. The guy wants it to be more. This can go on for YEARS. Being nice but not throwing yourself at a guy just mean that he will take you seriously. This rule wasn't invented; it just IS.

[@robbenvanpersie1562]

Guy's fault if he wants it to be more

[@unknownbannana8241]

this is just friends to loves not hard to get

[@erikpaulsen3111]

I get young 20 somethings trying to cancel culture me via dating apps. I assume it is some kind of female social media nonsense. They even send pictures.

[@phil4405]

How are they doing this!?

[@evgtruth6578]

Listen ladies my best advice - if you want more dating option - get better looking - body and face and also just be nice and open. Simple as that. Guys will like you. Just be nice and attractive

[@Ariana-sf3li]

That’s why dating apps are great because both parties can agree they are attractive. But they might have different agendas. I think if you’re not using dating apps than the best way to approach a girl is to introduce yourself and see where the vibe goes. If she’s playing hard to get then it’s time to wrap up the convo and move on. But she can also be shy… in that case you did your part it’s up to her to play her cards.

[@Pezerinno]

Dating apps are horrendous unless you're a very attractive guy or a girl looking for casual. Terrible for your mental health for the vast majority of people who fall outside those groups.

[@skyward_rebel]

Dating apps are great for women and a small percentage of men. It allows people (you can guess who does this more) to discriminate based on even more traits than usual, like political beliefs(which are meaningless as they can change at any time). It has also changed the way women treat men in real life, as I’ve seen people being told repeatedly, “LEAVE WOMEN ALONE.” Entitlement has gone through the roof, and talking to someone in person is becoming less acceptable to the point where it’s dangerous for men.

[@dillpickle7358]

They are the opposite of Great when 75% of users on dating apps are men

[@Ariana-sf3li]

Yeah depending on your motives, dating apps can be great. But maybe it’s not the right spot to find your soul mate -if those things even exist.

[@dillpickle7358]

Ariana I agree, tinder is mainly known for hookup culture. Also, you will definitely not find your soulmate on dating apps like tinder.

[@pncicitap2519]

I know! I know! Now every date has to be a double date.

[@ltsiver]

No. Feminism and the sexual harassment policies did. Metoo only solidified the damage from the previous. Dating is a game that men won't win unless they're the top cream. The rest of us have to leave them alone lest they use the rules to ruin our lives for just telling them they look nice. It's not worth having your life destroyed.

[@spark300c]

I think only ones who like women playing hard to get are pick up artist who viewing dating not as something hard and unpleasant thing to do but as game.

[@cvs8104]

the liberty of some must depend on the restraint of others.

[@georgeedward1226]

The risk outweighs the potential reward. It's not difficult to understand.

[@alelectric2767]

I don’t see the problem. This is how I lived my life since high school in the early 90s. When a women said no I just moved on. 🤷‍♂️. They eventually approached me.

[@robbenvanpersie1562]

Not happens most of the time

[@cvs8104]

Freedom for the pike is death for the minnows

[@craigbuckley7603]

It never changed it for me I don't date and never dated No women no problem

[@animal79thecat]

"No woman no cry" lol

[@Striker50_]

Amazon Prime FREE returns caused M3Too 🤣 They think if they regret something, they could just return it for a full refund 🎁

[@alaalfa8839]

Men should approach talented women….. Notice that if someone has an extreme talent, and pasion for example playing piano, violin, guitar etc….these people use to be very humble, very modest, they dont have time for nonsense. While the good-looking sexy but boring people are entitled, arrogant etc

[@williamhearnden8089]

What about courting instead of dating

[@michikatsutsugikuni4096]

Courting a girl these days would get you labeled a creepy NiceGuyTM, sexual predator and a groomer

[@coreyondavis6032]

rejections i can handle, however falsely being accused or put on blast for clout? Thank but hard pass

[@hazelparr5024]

Love this, Chris 🙌😍 I'm an ole bird and find it quite empowering to make my intent clear 😈💪 (but hopefully not brazen 🤔🤷‍♀️🤣) It's awful that Men have been so demonised by all this Woke bollocks 😭💔(don't get me started 🤬) Blessed to have so many awesome fellas in my World 🥰 (but still single 🙄 too fusy, or know my worth 🤷‍♀️🤔🤣) Great stuff lovely man 🥰 Eagerly awaiting more 🙌🙏 xxx 🇬🇧😘💜

[@mrconfusion87]

I love brazen women! A brazen woman that makes her move on me that I find hot MAKES MY DAY! 😊💪🍻

[@margotmartindale8501]

Ps-I was brainwashed by radical feminists online and through videos like these I have luckily come out of it, but not without a huge stinking pile of regrets for my behavior. Women suck sometimes, but please have some empathy for us, because we have been taught these toxic ideologies as well, and we are doing what we genuinely think is right.

[@brushstroke3733]

The "battle of the sexes" has left both sides badly wounded. It's time we started treating each other like teammates instead of adversaries. Hard to do while everyone is still in their foxholes though.

[@ltsiver]

The one applicable axiom in life is "you reap what you sow". So, you can start laying groundwork for a better relationship with men by what you do now vs what you did then.

[@TheAnointedSamurai]

Welcome to increase pet, pet food & dildo sales. Invest in SSRI manufacturers.

[@mrs.garcia6978]

Wow reading these comments…perhaps y’all live in Uber leftist areas and should think about find more normal places? Conservative and/or Christian women in my circle, spanning multiple states, are not like what you describe at all. Full stop. That is insanity!

[@margotmartindale8501]

It is true, I live in Chicago where everyone is extremely far left to an embarrassing degree. It made dating so difficult, even as a woman. I cannot imagine how the men here navigate it at all. No one wants to settle down. Most of these hardcore lefties think marriage and having children is bad for the environment and society or something so they just want to have these unfulfilling hookups their entire lives.

[@timthetiny7538]

You're wrong.

[@tyten69]

the issue with most men being bad at dating is 2 things: they use 'women are complicated' as an excuse and not try to understand women and their own thought processes. not knowing how to become friends with a woman first...pure friends

[@mrs.garcia6978]

I have no idea why any secular person dates or marries these days. Women have gone off the deep end mentally and men are weak & indecisive in large part. Why do it? The reason why our marriage (and consequently sex life) is strong and getting stronger every year is because of our faith in and love for God, it’s our reason outside of the: “I must be happy”; y’all don’t have that so what’s the point? And yeah self-professing “Christians” get divorced for “happiness” reasons too, but y’all have 0 reason to do it in the first place. Especially in socialist countries that don’t give you any tax breaks for marriage, and favor giving government money to unmarried parents.

[@margotmartindale8501]

@M J I don’t think that’s necessarily true. The LGBT movement in the West has made huge progress in the past 50 years, to the point where outward homophobia has become socially unacceptable (a good thing obviously). All of the men in my life have lots of fulfilling friendships with other men, not sure what social circles you run around in. My boyfriend is always gaming with his tight group of guy friends and it’s a fun hobby for him to bond with his friends. I don’t think society has as much of a problem with male bonding as you think.

[@margotmartindale8501]

@M J and yes, men and women tend to have different hobbies which can cause some difficulties in relationships. But if you’re willing to work through it and let your love keep you close, you can have a good relationship. My boyfriend and I like to spend our free time very differently (he likes sports and video games, I like reading and listening to podcasts), but we still find fun things to do together that we both enjoy

[@SM-jv5ev]

This is nonsense. No one 'plays hard to get' at a party. Talk, don't touch, don't get metoo

[@DarkPrince784]

I’d say “don’t talk, don’t touch”. I know how to talk to women without being creepy but I’m still not taking any chances.

[@mrconfusion87]

Yeah but the difference between being a "flirt" and a "creep" often only just boils down to whether she found you "hot" or "ugly"! And how can we know the difference unless we approach them?