How Do I Write Characters with a Different Belief System? (Writing Atheistic Characters)

Short excerpt from my Live Signing Session #14.
Watch the whole livestream here: • #14 - Brandon Sanderso...

[@kieran.grant_]

"Let the Vorin believe as they wish-the wise among them will find goodness and solace in their faith; the fools would be fools no matter what they believed." -Jasnah Kholin

[@nvwest]

Wow I love that quote. Let’s see if I can find it on goodreads to add Edit: I don’t agree with the quote anymore. Goodhearted people can be made to do terrible things through religion. ‘Punish the sin not the sinner.’ Can be such a toxic statement. Also homophobia, refusing scientific evidence, and being convinced that your own religion has more merit over others... It can really have a bad influence on people.

[@SolarScion]

Terrible moral. Bad dogma corrupts even naturally good (empathetic, caring, just-minded) people into being awful and supporting ethical atrocities. That's a much better lesson to learn, because it's true.

[@nvwest]

Are you threatening me, Master Jedi? Yesss actually I agree with you. Kept going over the quote in my head later and found out I actually don’t agree with it at all. Brandon’s atheistic characters are really not critical enough on religion. And the bad influence it has on people is kind of besides the point if it’s true or not.

[@SolarScion]

@@nvwest I actually had no idea what the quote was from, I just immediately saw the flaw in the logic because it's something I've come across a lot. It makes sense that a religious person trying to depict an atheist sympathetically would go for the "live and let live" light touch apatheist instead of actually having one challenge the moral consequentiality of faith (dogmatic belief systems) itself. It doesn't really matter if there are 10% of people in a religion who don't support the hard-line, inhumane strictures like "homosexuality is demonic", "herbalism is demonic", "women's sexuality is demonic", "autistic traits are demonic" if the entire religion entrenches these things in culture so that it takes 2,000 years for a society to make it past the industrial age before growing out of such superstitious bigotry when other cultural groups might not have had any particular hangup or hatred at any point in antiquity.

[@nvwest]

@@SolarScion Hard agree. I'm not just an atheist, I'm anti-theism too. People should just admit what they don't know. The whole point of believing in something just because people tell you to makes no sense to me at all. But then I hardly know anybody who is religious so that makes it hard for me to see where they are coming from besides it making you feel good. I always feel like, but surely you know deep down that what you believe is absolutely unfounded by anything (read: ridiculous). I don't think I'll ever understand it.

[@PeterDaley72]

And he kept signing the whole time. Multi-tasking guru!

[@coffeefrog]

Yeah. I would've signed every paper with a word or two from what I was saying.

[@anyataylor9475]

he could probably carry on in his sleep at this point

[@TheSCPStudio]

Are people’s attention span so low these days that they can’t talk and do a repetitive motion at the same time?

[@dkcsi9256]

EpicSC A low attention span wouldn’t make it so that they have trouble multitasking, they would have trouble focusing on a single task.

[@PeterDaley72]

@@TheSCPStudio I don't think speaking off the cuff so well like that while doing another task, however simple, is all that easy. We are notoriously bad at multi-tasking. Talking on the phone and driving for example leads to a significant increase in the chance of accident. Sure driving is a much harder task that driving, but our brain being not good at dividing its attention is still a factor here. In fact, it's interesting to watch the video more closely and note how he speaks as he signs. There are brief pauses and some "uhm"s as he signs. Not all the time, but I think you can almost see his attention given to speaking stop for a split second and then resume.

[@kahlbutomacfarland]

Empathy. It’s all about empathy. It seems like many people see our species’ greatest strength as a weakness nowadays.

[@randomstranger9306]

Empathy only becomes obsolete beyond a certain threshold of intellectual capacity, when the ability to logically make accurate decisions related to other people becomes high enough that emotional instincts are unnecessary. That is a threshold that the vast majority of humans haven't reached.

[@shawnmc3409]

I lean towards the idea that empathy is a spotlight of narrow illumination that shines on what is in front of you and can too easily blind people to the greater good. There is a difference between doing actual good and doing what feels good.

[@senmingwu]

@@randomstranger9306 How might a person approach or even pass beyond that threshold? First I've heard of it

[@captainstroon1555]

@@randomstranger9306 Why spending a lot of mental resources on something you have an instinct for? Well, there are people who lack that instinct, of course. For them analyzing and predicting humans is the only way. But for everyone else? Why not let your brain-autopilot do what it does best and focus your intellectual capacity on other stuff?

[@aurthurpendragon1015]

Kahlbuto MacFarland: The thing is, empathy is tricky, because it's most commonly created through shared experiences. Two soldiers are able to relate to each other because they were both on the battlefield, surrounded by hails of gunfire, watching their friends die left and right. I've never been in that situation, so there's always going to be a limit on how much I can empathize with that, because I simply just don't know what it's like.

[@EvenGodsDie]

I love how he says that the best way to write another point of view comes from steel manning the stance of that alternate viewpoint.

[@daenithriuszanathos9306]

*St. Thomas Aquinas has entered the chat*

[@katamattyon]

@@daenithriuszanathos9306 Love this comment!

[@TomorrowWeLive]

Also what you're supposed to do in philosophy

[@Above_Parr]

“I can’t blame someone for coming to a different conclusion when I have had the same questions and struggled with the same things” Damn Brandon! I just finished mistborn era 1 as my first adult fantasy series/book that I’ve ever read & I just want to say wow. Loved learning that Brandon is a Mormon because I am Jewish & I will admit I have not had the best view of that faith but if Brandon can write from such a different perspective then his own, do can I.

[@Afterthoughtbtw]

I have to say, as an atheist I could tell that you were a theist (and likely a certain type) from one or two throwaway lines in Mistborn that characters said to Sazed. Jasnah, however, is one of the best atheistic characters I've read, regardless of whether the author was an atheist or not. There have been lines that Jasnah say that get to the nub of many misconceptions about atheists. So whatever you are doing, it's definitely working!

[@TickleMeElmo55]

What certain theistic type are you talking about?

[@dornishraven4851]

@@TickleMeElmo55 not op but he definitely means Mormon

[@TheRenegade...]

The ending of Sazed's arc in Hero of Ages felt like something that could only have been written by a religious person

[@travismartinez5676]

@@TheRenegade... Yeah, I mean, each story he has written has different themes and messages generally. The entirety of Mistborn has always felt like an allegory of faith to me, especially Sazed's Arc in the original trilogy, which essentially boils down to what it means to have faith despite not having all of the answers. On the other hand, Jasnah picks apart so many religious fallacies, yet holds an amazingly strong set of moral conclusions that feel entirely self-derived and quite aware of the cultures she lives in/around. The stormlight archive feels like a portion of its enormous story is devoted to atheism and agnosticism, while Mistborn felt opposite. In either case, both stories were amazing, relatable, and fascinatingly aware of perspective.

[@tulip5210]

“By offering our best arguments on all different aspects.” YES. YES.

[@BillErak]

As a previous-christian-now-atheist myself, I actually really like most of Brandon's characters. Sazed's struggles in book 3 of mistborn were particularly relatable. Hell, sometimes I wondered if Brandon was an atheist himself while reading his books, given how unapologetic he is about some of the really obvious shortcomings of religion too. It's fascinating, really.

[@lilyme3]

As a Christian myself, I read Sazed at a particularly hard time, and I deeply appreciated and resonated with his journey on a visceral level.

[@whutzat]

Im the opposite. Atheist turned Christian.

[@kieran.grant_]

I've also wondered if Brandon is a closet athiest of some sort, and I think that's a testament to how hard he is trying to write these characters. It takes a lot of moral and intellectual honesty to write a *good* character with such wildly different beliefs than your own. Especially one so good it makes people wonder if the author truly believes what he says he does.

[@nvwest]

whutzat never heard of that before

[@IncubiAkster]

@@whutzat I mean, technically everyone is an Atheist when they are born

[@EDarien]

I love to know he does this purposefully. I remember being so struck on a personal level because I liked Sazed. I just REALLY related to him on some levels as I read. Then I came to this paragraph and I stopped because nothing so perfectly described how I felt about myself: "How had sazed become the one that people came to with their problems? Couldn't they sense that he was simply a hypocrite capabled of formulating answers that sounded good, yet incapabled of following his own advice? He felt lost. He felt a weight, squeezing him, telling him to simply give up."

[@uptown3636]

What a warm, compassionate, and thoughtful response. The world would be a better place if more people (myself very much included) were better able to show respect for those with whom we disagree.

[@nrdywrdy]

I am an atheist who was raised in the same church as Brandon, and I respect the hell out of this guy.

[@kieran.grant_]

Same here bro, I love Sandersons honesty in writing characters with different beliefs than his own.

[@nrdywrdy]

@@kieran.grant_ when I read his Legion books I thought maybe he was a closet atheist. Turns out he's just a great human, LOL

[@shawnmc3409]

@Spencer Borup Hahahaha! You respect.... the hell out of him. This is funny for reasons that I'm not smart enough to articulate.

[@nrdywrdy]

@@shawnmc3409 ayyyyyy I see what you (I?) did there

[@theTYTAN3]

I feel the same way, so few people in the church are open to thinking this way, Brandon is awesome.

[@ChaseNoseworthy]

As a former christian turned atheist, reading the Stormlight Archive and seeing how Brandon wrote both atheistic and religious characters bought me a lot of respect for him knowing he personally leans one way in his own beliefs. It's a sign of intellectual honesty that many people find difficult to produce.

[@DanTheMeek]

Same on all acconts. As some one who also managed to escape Christianity, I was really bracing for the worst when an "atheist" character was introduced... and that was even before I learned that Brandon was Mormon! But instead what I found was a shockingly fair depiction of atheism and as a result what I feared would ruin what had already been an incredibly enjoyable read to that point, instead ended up enhancing the experience further.

[@richardmurray9026]

​@@DanTheMeeki hope you one day find Christianity again!

[@DanTheMeek]

​@@richardmurray9026 While I believe misguided, I appreciate the sentiment and thank you for sharing it. My coming to no longer believe was a multi-year process of prayer, daily bilble reading, and research (be it into the history of the books of the bible, common appologetics for the contraditions and criticms non-believers often express, etc.) with the goal of finding a justification to believe I could share with non-believers as an interaction with a non-believer had led me to realize my own reason for believing for the first 30 years of my life was primarily because my parents, extended family, and community did, none of which was compelling argument to non believer. Actually trying to find justification to believe led me to the painful realization there didn't seem to actually be any, at least none that wasn't based on what I wished was true rather then what the evidence actually suggested was true, and in fact if I was honest with myself, the evidence was pretty overwhelming that it was false. Eventually I had to be honest with myself and admit that it just didn't appear true, which was rough, as again, pretty much everyone I knew and cared about did believe and I wasn't close with anyone who didn't. I focused my attention after that I interviewing people, family, friends, strangers in my church, appologists who were open to conversations with me online, all with the same core question of why do THEY believe, and what I found was two common themes. People either believed for the same reasons I used to, because they were raised in it and had never really had any motivation to question it, or because it brought them comfort in some fashion to believe it was true. I say all that to say, I don't know you, your reasons for belief are uniquely your own and I do not wish to assume anything about them, but if you do continue to believe inspite of the both lack of reliable evidence its true and the overwhelming evidence its false, because it provides you comfort that you need to get through your days, then as long as your belief isn't causing you to harm others, I hope you never stop believing. For me, what I found I valued most was truth, even at the expense of my personal comfort, but I've now talked to hundreds of believers, and its become very clear to me that every one has different values, some believers, like former me, do value truth above all else but just haven't had reason to question, but for a great many, they don't want to question, are even afraid to question, because for them, what they would gain (truth) simply isn't worth what they would lose (the comfort/community/direction/etc. belief has provided them). If truth isn't your priority, then, again, as long as your not harming others as a result of your belief, then I genuinely do encourage you to continue to believe as long as you desire. Admitting I had been wrong, that there weren't good reasons to believe christianity true, lost me much and caused me much shame, and all I got from it was the peace that came from knowing at least I was being honest with myself and not trying to pretend it warranted belief to maintain my comfort.

[@isa_the_icequeen]

This right here is one of the main reasons I enjoy Brandon's writing so much--every side is fleshed out and nothing is ever simple. And everything is well researched to sound realistic, whether he believes in them himself or not. And he's right, religious groups tend to caricature each other without really looking into each other, simply going off off rumor. As a Catholic myself, I've heard some nasty things about my religion that are simply not true from other denominations--so whenever I hear something fishy about another religion coming from the mouth of another Catholic or otherwise, I go and research it and often find it not to be true in the slightest but a skewing of something off the wall. And as a former atheist/agnostic, I find Jasnah's portrayal to be a mirror of how I thought. I didn't wish to convince or convert anyone, I just didn't have the facts to believe in any one way or another. It was truly realistic and true to form. And it proves that you can see the other side, even from your own, without sacrificing your own beliefs.

[@jp8649]

@Robertson Thirdly Do you mean the widespread and common of bad touch priests?

[@isa_the_icequeen]

Robertson Thirdly I was actually referring to our religious practices and beliefs being subject of nasty rumor. But thank you for the reminder (like I wasn't already aware). I would like to point out the RCC isn't the only religious organization with those things going on (I myself was molested by a Baptist summer camp counselor as a child, called a liar, and kicked out--despite the fact that multiple other children came forward) but that is the thing most point out when they hear someone's Catholic. So thank you for the reminder. Very cool to cherry pick THAT out of my entire comment, by the way.

[@PetrSojnek]

@@isa_the_icequeen It's kind of exactly what Brandon talks about. People like to pick the weakest argument (some individuals are weak and do things that are generally considered wrong). It's easy to dislike or straight hate whole group just beause of it, right? Instead of picking strong argument and try to think about it a bit more.

[@TimTYT]

When I first read The Way of Kings I was really worried. Oh so now there's this religious author who writes this atheist character and there will be this subplot about people trying to convert her and it's gonna be a bunch of thinly veiled arguments for Christianity that will just be annoyingly bad, but the atheist will probably be depicted as just not accepting the "obvious" truth. I was glad to see how utterly wrong I was and I really appreciate how Sanderson did his best to put actual arguments for atheism in his book and left it up to the readers to decide on their significance for themselves.

[@calebmauer1751]

Yeah, an example of how not to do it is in The Burning White, where one character is a straw atheist.

[@WolfieboyMachi]

@@calebmauer1751: A strawtheist?

[@calebmauer1751]

@@WolfieboyMachi I think that would be a religious scarecrow.

[@knutolavbjrgaas1069]

LDS is not Christianity btw

[@spinloki]

@@knutolavbjrgaas1069 why not

[@Noah-wx7fm]

Oh my goodness, I absolutely love this. As a Christain myself who has often times come to some of the questions he's referencing that unfortunately aren't really talked about in my religious community, have come to so many of the same realizations that he has, and it's just so reassuring that someone else has gone thought about these things

[@zenon3021]

Christianity is incredibly backwards if you actually read the whole Bible for once in your life. Actually read the damn book, then divide the passages into 3 categories: Historically backwards; Scientifically backwards; Morally backwards. You will find dozens upon dozens of passages. Stuff like: Ephesians 6:5 “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.” Leviticus 25: 44-46 “You may purchase male and female slaves from among the nations around you […] You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.” Exodus 21:20 “If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken for he (the slave) is his property” Exodus 21:2 “If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but on the seventh shall go out as a free man without payment” Exodus 21:7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are” 1 Peter 2:18 “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” Jeremiah 19:9 “And I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and their daughters” Deut. 25:11-12 “If two Israelite men get into a fight and the wife of one tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the testicles of the other man, you must cut off her hand. Show her no pity.” Lev 20:10 “If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death” Deut. 22:28-29 “If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. 1 Samuel 15:2-3 “This is what the Lord Almighty says… ‘Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants’.”

[@blackhawksfan2525]

@@zenon3021 To be fair to Christians, I believe most of the horrible stuff (rape, incest, slavery, genocide, etc.) was in the old testament... Jesus of the new testament was a much nicer dude than his father. That being said, the selective amnesia is comical at times. And if you take the bible as a whole, and apply modern logic, world knowledge, and morality to it, it becomes obvious it was written by primitive men and falls apart in a hurry.

[@Noah-wx7fm]

@@zenon3021 I do a agree that the old testimate, especially the first few books chronologically, definitly did take a lot of the morality of the time instead of presenting a more modern take. A lot of people see these verses and wonder how a good god can say these things. I don't wanna say I have all the answers, because I don't, and sometimes there are verses that I honestly don't understand, but I do know that oftentimes, the Bible did make great strides in making the world of it's time a better place. It's not like the Bible introduced slavery to the these people. Slavery was already a deeply ingrained practice in these ancient cultures. What the bible did was to actually put rules to these practices, and others, so that it wasn't madness. The writers realized that even if they preached and wrote that slavery and other such things were wrong, then it wouldn't do anything. People would still practice slavery. Instead they presented these rules that, in context, did do good. Those of us who believe in God today don't actually believe that it was ever God's intent to keep these practices. The way I see it, God took the rotten and deeply imperfect humanity that He saw and addressed their issues slowly, the best it was possible to address them while keeping a distance through a religion as was His plan. To be honest, I don't blame you for thinking these things by reading the Bible. Despite what a lot of Christians who haven't actually read the Bible say, oftentimes the Bible shouldn't be taken as the word of law. There are nuances and hidden truths that are not directly said in the Bible, that we can only understand by not relying only on the written word. I'm so sorry if there have been experiences in your past that has led to you to have these beliefs. I don't want to defend anything that has hurt you in the past.

[@Noah-wx7fm]

@@blackhawksfan2525 I believe that that selective amnesia is a real thing. To be honest, I would offer to say that a lot of Christain just don't know now days that such things were written since they aren't exactly shared verses. And those who do read these verse often times just have no idea how to deal with them, so they don't deal with them and kind of just forget. However there are those that address those ancient verses with a modern eye, and have come up with some pretty good conclusions, one of which I tried my best(hopefully😅) to present one conclusion in my previous reply. I don't think anyone who has actually taken in the whole Bible would say that the Bible can stand up by itself. Even in the new testimate, there are sometimes times when you need to now history and the context of the time in order to explain it. I think that the truth is that no one book can contain the whole of morality. That's why the Bible often contains seemingly contradictory verses about morality. The idea is that you can read all these verses and come to your own conclusions about what is right and what is wrong, which in our eyes is called being led by the Holy Spirit. You could litterally read the Bible and come out of it with one-hundred different religions. If you were to ask me what formed my beliefs and understanding of the world, I would say it was a combination of what I heard in Church, modern understanding of morality, the Bible, and revelations that I've had by myself. Sorry, I just realized that I'm getting off on a pretty big tangent. I'm sorry if I talked too long😅. Thank you for reading this if you did

[@blackhawksfan2525]

@@Noah-wx7fm well said. i agree with all of it, other than there are a few people (not a lot, but very loud people) who do take a "literal" interpretation of every word in the bible, then choose to simply ignore or justify the inconvenient/terrible stuff at the same time. that's where it really becomes a problem, in my mind. And it's the source of much of the anger between religious and non-religious people when those awful philosophies are shoe-horned into laws. Anyway, I'm sure Brandon appreciates this thread turning into a religious forum. (sarcasm) Glad it stayed civil, though! Unlike some, I do enjoy civil debates with people of different backgrounds. You never know who you might learn something from.

[@sechay9328]

I appreciate your enduring open mindedness, Brandon, and its why I have read all your work. You are slowly becoming a Fantasy Joseph Campbell, keep it up.

[@serqet42]

This comment made me smile so much. Follow your bliss.

[@danielhuras617]

I will say, harmony on bands of morning was a very understandable position to be it despite my Christian beliefs. If a being was all Omni, where would they have to choose for the over benefit of the world. But what hit me hardest was in alloy of law. When Wax pleads to Harmony to send someone to fix the injustice. And Harmony tells him "I sent you". Fuck. That's a religious sucker punch for the ages.

[@stormelemental13]

You might like Curse of Chalion by Lois Bujold.

[@luisoncpp]

In alloy of law Harmony appeals to the free will, that is one of the philosophical "solutions" for "the problem of evil", but Harmony didn't elaborate in the argument, so it feels poor. Probably Harmony could have elaborated more in a more convincing way that same free will argument, but it would have been pretty anti climatic. I agree that the way of showing it on Bands of Mourning was much better, it's kind a shame that Brandon Sanderson didn't go with that explanation in Alloy of Law.

[@calebmauer1751]

I think there was a very similar line in one of the Dresden Files books but I can't remember which one.

[@FridgeEating]

@@calebmauer1751 I don't remember the argument in the book, but Ithink in general it's less of a "has to be" situation but more that the Shard has a principle associated with it and that someone holding it will in time embody that principle.

[@FrostSylph]

@@calebmauer1751 I think its implied that even with Ruin being half of his intent he could still help more, but restrict himself. He can't just step in and fix everything because that would take away everyone's free will. No one would do any wrong, but not because everyone is a good person, instead it would be because there would be no alternative. For anyone's actions to be truely good and of their own free will there has to be the potential for evil. So Harmony watches from afar and tries to nudge things in the right direction through his agents but leaves it at that.

[@jsmith5052]

I'm an atheist but have really enjoyed talking with every Mormon I have met. Just last week I chose to go to a Mormon dentistry practice because they are always so nice. People judge each other far too much on what they believe and what helps them along and brings meaning to their life. Judge somebody by their actions, regardless of religion. I used to be much more critical of religious people and fawned over Christopher Hitchens, et al. but I have grown up since then. As long as somebody isn't harming or suppressing another, let them believe what they want spiritually.

[@yellowmartian]

Every Mormon at BYU becomes a dentist.

[@jsmith5052]

@@yellowmartian They just weirdly into teeth?

[@yellowmartian]

@@jsmith5052 in a way, yes. Not for any particular reason ..it just seems like there's a LOT of LDS dentists and orthodontists.

[@jsmith5052]

@@calebmauer1751 Yeah I love Hitchens but a lot of say 17-22 year olds that discover him don't have the wit, intellect, or tact he did and just spout out "if you believe in religion you're dumb..." Which I'm guilty of myself. These days I'm just like hey man whatever gets you through the day...

[@jsmith5052]

@@calebmauer1751 Yeah I don't find Ben Shapiro very impressive. He just talks fast and for some reason people find that impressive. I just find that unthoughtful. He makes broad assumptions and erects straw man counter arguments to "DESTROY" or as you said, "debates college students" who don't have the platform for a retort until they are moved along for the next questioner. He also has a disturbing lack of empathy in his rhetoric that a lot of people take as courage of conviction, but I just see it as a lack of culture. He tends to see his encounters as a competition with some victor rather than a conversation to understand two conflicting points of view which can both be true depending on your life experience, as evident by his "DESTROYS" videos. Whether that is just for clickbait to manipulate KZbin views or he actually believes he is there to destroy arguments, it shows a lack of personal integrity in my opinion if his angle is that of rationality. However that goes for both sides.

[@tarrantkorrin3796]

I loved the way of kings for a lot of reasons, but absolutely at the forefront of those is Jasnah. It wasn’t until I met her that I realised I had never before seen a character that was an atheist for logical rather than emotional reasons, and it was so baffling to me that that was the case. I couldn’t understand how in a genre that is by its very nature perfect for having more and more representation of all kinds of people, I had never before seen a determined atheist. Seeing someone that was like myself made me really understand how important proper representation can be in works of fiction.

[@unitron2005]

" had never before seen a character that was an atheist for logical rather than emotional reasons" Ironic, considering atheism is entirely based on the notion of "logic above emotion".

[@tarrantkorrin3796]

Kaladin is a good example of what most atheists in media tend to be like. People that have suffered and so believe that god couldn’t possibly exist because he wouldn’t allow that.

[@calebmauer1751]

@@tarrantkorrin3796 Yeah, and that's just a setup so they can tearfully return to god when something good happens later in the story.

[@DrawbackDrawback]

Never before seen a character that was atheist for logical reasons and not emotional? But...But that's the point of atheism. What would an atheist for emotional reasons and not logical reasons even look like?

[@ravenfrancis1476]

@@DrawbackDrawback The very strawmanned caricaturized version of atheists that Sanderson was likely talking about. As someone who grew up raised in a very Christian fundamentalist house, they didn't view atheists as people that just didn't believe in God. They think atheists are these cartoonishly evil monsters that actively despise God and all of His believers.

[@roberte.2114]

Sir, you are an efficient powerhouse machine when it comes to being an author. You just sit there signing away and making your video and giving intelligent sentences and reasoning. I just got into your work, you’re amazing! You might be my second favorite author (after Stephen King). Thanks for giving me Mistborn. Also, I respect your beliefs, I met a couple Mormons, they were the nicest people I ever met!!

[@aro1284]

This discussion about taking the time to understand other people perfectly encapsulates why I love Sanderson's books. The characters have depth because he takes the time to actually understand other viewpoints and lived experiences. It is my sincere wish that more people would take the time to empathize with viewpoints outside of their own.

[@P_Rodd]

I just found this after reading The Way of Kings and asking this question about Brandon. I am an atheist and was pleasantly surprised at his dipiction of Jasnah and her beliefs. I think enough of Brandon that I did not expect a negative depiction but was still intrigued to see how she would be characterized. Well done sir!

[@overlorde7526]

This is really nice. I’m atheist, and spend a lot of time on atheist KZbin, but I think it really helps keep everything in focus that there are people like Brandon, who are really open minded

[@mr.mcthicc1073]

Same here. I personally really dont like the lds church and I think its harmful (I'm an exmo), but it's nice to see people like Brandon who are open minded and smart.

[@Gevaudan1471]

Atheist KZbin no longer exists.

[@overlorde7526]

Sylva Luca in what way? There’s cosmic skeptic, professor stick (by association, he tends to argue for evolution) and genetically modified skeptic still exit, last time I checked

[@mr.mcthicc1073]

@@overlorde7526 also mr athiest himself is still around.

[@zenon3021]

The Atheist Experience is a good youtube channel - it's a radio show where Christians call in with their 'evidence' of god...

[@LittleMissTotoro]

This is super wholesome also outside of literature. I was raised atheist, but was shocked by the views and anger by some (mostly male 😅) atheists on youtube a decade ago. The point of being atheist to me is kind of that we don't have a group??? But they were so angry with religion and also had some strong political views. And everyone seemed out to "get"/"own" other people's views. I really disliked being associated with any of that! I assume many religious people feel the same way.

[@Vilgax00]

Same as a muslim. I feel you bro.

[@matthewpalmer7]

I've always enjoyed Brandon's depiction of different belief systems in his books! It is one of the best parts of his stories!

[@samcwill2046]

I never feel like I have time to watch your full signings, but I love these clips. Keep em coming!

[@zamakhtar]

I especially liked the part where Brandon mentions that he too struggled with the same questions, though he came to a conclusion that kept him faithful. I think when you are sincere in asking questions you can recognize and respect people who come to a different answer than you did, because you know just how difficult these questions are. "Why are we here? Where did we come from? Is there a creator?" There are no easy answers, and much love to all the askers, regardless of the answers they found.

[@ospritely8144]

Agreed. I love that he's so honest about the fact he's wrestled with those questions, because it can be pretty taboo in religious communities to discuss it. He did say at 2:33 that he's actually had real religious experiences, and for me if I'd had the same, it would utterly reinforce my faith as well.

[@julzbehr6696]

More questions: can omnipotence work? What is death? Would conscious rebirth mean we would stop trying to live? What does being alive mean? What does being human mean? Is this real? Is there universal truth? Does life have meaning?

[@hurricanekatrina13]

I appreciate this so much! I am a person of faith, and because of that I want to find & know the best in others. Such good thoughts, Brandon! Thank you.

[@serecano104]

I really respect you for being able to write characters from such different points of views without including any definitve opinions yourself and I abolutely loved the parts in way of kings where Kabsal talks to Jasnah about her beliveves or Jasnah talks to Shallan about faith and where they can have those awesome conversations where one truly feels that both sides are well understood... One of the most awesome things in philosophy is mutual respect of one another and I admire you for the respect in your writing. I was truly impressed by how you are able to write about societal conflicts without getting all political, making it seem as if there's only one solution to a complex problem...

[@davidbuffington9644]

Thank you for being open minded and humane. Thank you for taking the time to learn. The more I watch of your signing sessions and lectures, the more I enjoy your stories and books.

[@sarahg2161]

We need more people like you in the world right now. I have a very similar background and took a different path at the end of my questions. I respect you going through the process so much and the way it has helped you develop very realistic characters.

[@Ethereal_109]

I do wonder if part of the reason we reach a lot of weak arguments is because of a strong desire to be correct over anything else, combined with all or nothing mentalities. Where as the low number of strong arguments, is because many people can guess what someone that is all in on what they believe will react to a simple question, "What if you're wrong?" Because the honest answer can be mild disappointment at that thing you got hyped up for, or it could mean watching your entire perspective crumble around you.

[@franketlamb]

I think that asking yourself if you’re wrong should be a task to engage in frequently. I used to think that I leaned to one side of the spectrum and then found out my beliefs were in line with a whole different position, and I can still find things that prove me wrong in certain aspects. It’s like Brandon says, we need to get out of our own prejudices and try different perspectives until we get to find what beliefs we choose, hopefully becoming better people overall.

[@jp8649]

I think this depends highly on the person and their personal experience or perspective. I grew up with the influence of people who could not admit they were wrong and taking it as a personal slight, not a normal thing that happens to everyone. Being wrong was unacceptable and then I projected those same experiences and beliefs onto others. Especially since anything less than perfection was unacceptable. I think it's really important to let people make mistakes in an understanding and kind way. Especially since some people can be really vicious about it and even telling the one who's wrong that they are stupid or any other number of things. Being wrong does not make a stupid person. Self-awareness is a big one too, but humans are generally pretty blind to faults like this and are commonly in denial about their negative actions. That applies even more so for the root cause of those problems. Which kind of sucks since you need to find the root cause of a negative trait, accept it, learn why it is negative, and apply personal effort to overcome or cope with the cause. That's a lot of work and recognizing it can be very hard.

[@franketlamb]

J P Your point on self-awareness and ability to change is the key here. Those can help a lot as long as you have both rather than only one of those. Context is also key, but I’ve had a few experiences that even in thinking that someone is gonna have a certain mindset based on their context, you can be so mistaken. And on regards to finding the root of all problem, that’s a harder issue so I’m not gonna pretend to have a complete answer. I just think that sometimes it’s not even a matter of morals but rather where your priorities lie, and knowing the effects of holding such beliefs regardless of a moral qualification. After all of that, we have to try and understand other people’s priorities in order try to find the most balanced answer.

[@luisoncpp]

I think that prevalence of weak arguments is mostly related to tribalism, there is a natural tendency of choosing sides and then treat the sides as allies and enemies and because of that it's the habit of caricaturize the other side rather than consider the arguments. Also, admitting being wrong generally is not something socially acceptable and there is the confirmation bias, but that's more related to accepting poor arguments rather than making them.

[@johnfrancis89]

ive decided id rather be stupid than an asshole

[@mikahkilgore4972]

*respect for Brandon grows even more*

[@hamzahmohammed5491]

1:35 as a Muslim good God do I feel this often 😅 the attempts at representation are deeply appreciated and more recently a few have erred to the side of being better informed but at still thank you for pointing this out Brandon

[@LoveMakeShareTV]

Thanks for this. My current WIP, a middle-grade fantasy, has in the course of revision gone from being fairly agnostic to having a central culture with a belief system. It became important to the story to write a compelling family that comes from a strong faith and ethnic tradition. It was a really valuable exercise for me as a person without faith and who is ambivalent about my own ethnic background. I tried to do basically what you describe here - come at it from a place of honest and generous representation of the best of those values. You get far more interesting character interactions when you have earnest and honest characters bouncing off one another than when you have caricatures doing so. Thanks for being an educator and for doing what you do.

[@nathanharmon8971]

It is one of the greatest failures of those of faith, like myself, that they bring up their children on straw-man arguments of atheists rather than explaining the strongest points for disbelief. That is one of the reasons I appreciate Brandon's writing so much. He places his own arguments into the characters that think like he does and seeks out the most solid brick walls of ideas he has ever had to contend with to keep those beliefs to instill into characters that think differently than he does

[@dragonfiremalus]

That is a simply massive stack of papers to sign. It scares me.

[@joshuadunham7919]

I don't think it would scare you if you were in that position-that represents a lot of moolah to the one signing. XD

[@bencressman6110]

I'm guessing what was on screen was a relatively small fraction of the pages to be signed

[@slavajuri]

This is such an empathetic video. I haven’t read your books, but this is a great channel. Thank you.

[@ObaREX]

Man, I remember a couple years ago I had JUST missed you appearing at my local Barnes & Noble. Biggest regret. Your books inspire me.

[@kerneywilliams632]

Thank you very much for being a man of quality and through your example encouraging others to be. I had some very mixed feelings about Mormons, probably had some negative opinions due to friends who had left the LDS and comforted one when her a close family member disowned her. Because of that I was reluctant to pick up you books and for that I am sorry. You remind to take people as people when I forget it. So thank you.

[@docmychedelic9153]

As an agnostic who’s steeped in psychedelics, if I didn’t know better I’d think Brandon was exactly that. Just an amazing example of the great job he does with characters.

[@dennis_duran]

This is an example of an intelligent religious person who is not judgemental nor a blind follower. You have my massive atheistic respect ✊.

[@andrewcraig1074]

I must admit, I was shocked by how civil the comment section is. People are having serious debates, but they seem to be pretty respectful.

[@sczealot2436]

This is one of the most admirable writer's traits I have ever seen.

[@nathanwolff7804]

Brandon strikes me as the sort of person who has a lot of empathy for other people

[@julzbehr6696]

I think that’s necessary if you want to be able to write.

[@Gerantee]

A good quote is like hearing your inner monologue stated clearly. This entire video is that, so thank you!

[@noelhann5262]

“I can’t blame someone for coming to a different set of conclusions” Well said, sir. A lot of people treat belief as a conscious choice, and that lets them demonize people for their different beliefs. In reality, beliefs are conclusions, and we don’t always get to control what conclusions we come to. It’s not something that we should judge each other for. I’m a firm believer that we should not respect people’s beliefs, but instead hold them all up to skepticism. If we hold anyone’s beliefs as sacred and beyond questioning, then we lose the ability to work towards the truth. At the same time, it is always important to respect the person behind those beliefs.

[@SoibusSoibonis]

Nice, humble, and open minded. What else can you ask for. Love from Spain, Brandon.

[@Danarcis]

Thank you very much for taking this approach, it is utterly frustrating to hear the "you can't be moral without god" perspectives come through in writing, where the "atheist" character will either end up committing horrible deeds, or find out that they really believed in god or godly things all along, they just didn't know that they did (because not knowing what you believe to this degree definitely happens /s).

[@deathbybuttons]

Thanks for promoting understanding, Brandon. That’s pretty cool of you.

[@katendress6142]

As an atheist, I've been worrying about how to write religious believers without slipping into caricature.

[@jackmacguire3565]

Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett is a great example of an atheist that wrote a book featuring several very religious individuals that I, as a Christian, related to. For me, I think it's important when someone actually does worry about writing people with viewpoints that you disagree with because it means that you actually care about the character

[@ianvass]

Babylon 5 was written by an atheist and was marvelously honest and respectful towards believers. Watch it if you haven't seen it yet.

[@zotaninoron3548]

I think it is interesting to note that to some degree religious characters in a work would have justification. As the author and reader can conceptually be represented as literal creator gods. So if I were to write a religious character, I would write from the perspective that the religion is reasonable and justified, that the gods exist and that they may actually have expectations both known and unknown. The story author can either validate or invalidate these views of the character. This also tends to be why there's so much wish-fulfillment Christian work like God's Not Dead about atheists getting their due or Christians being vindicated.

[@Thalanox]

@Kat Endress - I suggest you give Babylon 5 a watch through. It was written by an Atheist, and there are plenty of religious characters in the show. As an episode recommendation that focuses on religion, and shows how it can be shown by an Atheist in a positive light, I suggest Season 3 Episode 5, "Passing Through Gethsemane". It's got some bits of the larger plot mixed in, but it focuses on a monk who is part of an order of monks that is staying on the station. There are scenes of them interviewing some of the various alien cultures to learn about their views on spirituality and faith, and in return, they question the religious people on what their philosophical or emotional cores of their personal faith are. It's got a lot of great bits in it.

[@JauntyScarecrow]

The key, much as Brandon intimated, is empathy: do research about what people actually believe, respectfully talk to people with different viewpoints, steel-man their positions, and always think about how you would react differently to a situation if you held different beliefs. If you're going to take the time to write a character, take the time to understand it first. As a nonreligious person myself, I'd say the hardest part for atheists is probably understanding cognitive dissonance, why people are able to hold contradictory beliefs, even though religious people do not have a monopoly on that trait. Babylon 5 is a great example to watch, as all the main cast have different religious beliefs and cultures, each portrayed as reasonable from their perspective, and religion is a central theme of the show. Someone already mentioned "Passing Through Gethsemane", and "Believers", "The Parliament of Dreams", "And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place" are more episodes with strong religious themes, but the series is best watched as a whole because the religious journey several characters take over the arc of the show is the best example of all.

[@TornadoCreator]

As an atheist, I appreciate you taking the time to portray us properly. I've lost track of the amount of times I read atheists as hateful, bitter, vile, or even outright evil because it was a closed minded religious bigot writing the book. On a side note, I hate that round squiggle that passes for your signature. It doesn't look like your name, it looks like you squiggled on a page... seeing how many pages you're signing just to keep up with demand, I now understand why it looks like a squiggle on a page. Makes me less inclined to get an autographed book I must admit, but I can appreciate how much time you're putting in there. You're a damn workhorse Brandon and we all love you for it.

[@SolarScion]

@TornadoCreator Would you say the books wherein you've seen these portrayals have been in particular genres/sub-genres? I can't think of any examples like that, but I mostly read science, SF, and fantasy. I know religious people tend to have an extemely warped and inaccurate view of the irreligious (something that makes it all the harder for people to find their way out of religion starting only with doubt, only to be met with confusion and more invalid reasoning) but I don't tend to see atheism broached as a topic unless the author is also atheist.

[@TornadoCreator]

@@SolarScion Not really. Any genre where religion is brought up is likely to have a comic book evil atheist if they include atheists in their books. That is unless the book was written by an atheist.

[@jgrimes5353]

I can appreciate your position. Cool of you to admit your beliefs

[@connorbanepoop]

As someone whom left the church a while ago due to personal beliefs(Latter day saint) I still am surprised how protective I am of people criticizing the church in heinous crazy ways. There’s a lot to criticize don’t get me wrong it’s why I left the church. But yes, people want to make things simple so they make the people they disagree with simple. Still I was very surprised to find out you are a Latter Day Saint...should of known from the fact that you teach at BYU lol

[@eveescastle5866]

I left the church myself as well because I found my beliefs while they didn't necessarily conflict, I didn't like their approach to Christianity. It felt very pigeon holed and to me lacked depth and understanding of the Bible. Yeah there were fundamental things I did disagree with, but a lot of it I do still believe in to some degree, just not the way they taught it. My beliefs have definitely grown and evolved since leaving and while I still believe some aspects, I have broadened my horizons and come to the conclusion that no one religion has it 100% right. The way I practice my faith and the way I approach spiritually is on the fundamental idea that we are more alike than different, we may not come to the same conclusions but there is a lot of overlap, and I respect that. I don't have a thing against those who have one religious affiliation, but I do have a thing against those who use their religion to establish themselves as mortally superior. We are all inherently flawed, that is human nature, and to me no amount of faith and prayer will change that, and it certainly doesn't mean we are better than those who don't believe what we do. I do have my Qualms with the LDS church as a whole but the members themselves are not inherently at fault, some of them are some of the best people I've met, but there are quite a bit that have judged me for my decisions and view me as something to be fixed, and that I do not like.

[@maximeteppe7627]

Same. I was raised catholic and a blend of recognizing the crimes made in the name of christianity and sheer loss of interest in the ceremony - but I find my approach to morality is still steeped in the "love thy neighboor/turn the other cheek" message that was at the center of how religion was taught to me - and I still am somewhat defensive of some christians (and particularly catholics) when they go in the right direction.

[@Junksaint]

I lived right by you for two years, I can't believe it. Now i'm on the other side of the country when I discover your different series'

[@heliopyre]

I love all the different faiths and beliefs in his books. the way he can write characters on opposite ends of the spectrum like Sazed and Jasnah and have both of them feel totally natural is pretty fantastic.

[@LordXamon]

Thanks to Brandon I have begun to respect religion.

[@playswithbricks]

Check out Jordan Peterson, Paul Vanderklay, and Bishop Barron for more

[@Shade23753]

THAT ADMISSION MAKES YOU A COMPLETE IDIOT. AND RELIGION DOESN'T NEED THE RESPECT OF SUCH AS YOU.

[@benwykes4736]

@@Shade23753, they just said they now respect religion. That's a good thing, it shows a willingness to grow and to accept other belief systems. And no, religion doesn't 'need' the respect or validation of atheists, but it's good for people to understand each other.

[@ravenfrancis1476]

@@playswithbricks No idea who those last two are but Jordan Peterson is a crackpot hack.

[@playswithbricks]

@zerototalchaos a reactionary man who spent 30years studying and teaching in obscurity to then be in a place where he has to over and over correct distinctions and definitions of words by antagonist reactionary interviewers? I suppose we're discerning reality differently.

[@Lukasafer]

Thank you Sanderson I used to write religious characters as the idiots, the ones who dragged down the story But this time, i wrote two very specific characters who were both devote and I challenged myself to not my hate of organized religion cloud my story Two of my favorite characters quite honestly

[@larryparis925]

Nicely done. A shout out to Atheists everywhere. Even more broadly, authenticity is important whether we are writing about rationality or religious belief systems, or people of other cultures. Ethnographies are important sources of information for ideas concerning thoughts, beliefs, and behaviors of characters.

[@skyler4517]

I was really happy with the way you portrayed Jasnah.

[@tristyn8231]

I wish more people thought like this

[@blackhawksfan2525]

yep. it would be a much better world.

[@julienmason2769]

Brandon is such a respectable man!

[@scifimisc9191]

Absolutely brilliant

[@ThomasMeli81]

Honorspren springing up all around this YT video.

[@cmleibenguth]

Well stated, sir.

[@Joe-fq6bz]

Amazing job with beliefs in your books

[@glenn_r_frank_author]

I really like that. Making the effort to portray people as they really are not as cartoon characters of views the writer does not necessarily subscribe to themself. I wish our political process could be more like that. Still it must be very difficult to write a character and stay in character in a mindset that is not your own. I suppose it helps to have had interactions with and friend groups who are of various political / religious and cultural groups. I thankfully have many friends and family who have a diversity of experiences and backgrounds and I love the variety, as long as I can keep them all from killing each other!

[@joerosa9017]

I really appreciate how this man thinks

[@luisoncpp]

Thanks for uploading this, also the comment section got very interesting. I have hold always a theistic view(however my world view has shifted multiple times as my knowledge grows) and even when I live surrounded by atheist people, I feel that I wouldn't be able to understand them enough to write an atheist character without being a caricature. Usually when I heard them talk about religion they more often than not behave as a caricature(I was going to give details but I think that would obscure the point of this comment), I want to think that the most vocal people are not representative of how most atheists think, or that they only talk about that when they are angry so what they say doesn't fully represent what they think in general; but the only reason that I had for that hope is my faith in humanity. Now reading these comments made me realize that Brandon Sanderson's characters could be a good way for me to understand how they feel. I thought those characters were like that just to make them compelling to read, not as a representation of perspective on the real world. Good job! Brandon Sanderson!

[@JenamDrag0n]

Perhaps that's actually why they're so compelling? Because they are a representation of real, living people?

[@DrawbackDrawback]

An atheist can't be that hard to write. You only need one thing to be true. They do not believe a god or gods exist. That's all. The rest of their character is free to mould however you want. Religious characters are a much bigger hurdle because every religion has an entire lore behind them that you have to understand to a decent amount if you're going to delve into a religious character's way of thinking and beliefs in detail. Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, Islam, Hinduism, etc. There's no book or number of tenets for atheism. Because it isn't a religion. Where every religion is about belief, atheism is a lack of belief.

[@julzbehr6696]

My description of “beliefs”. I am not religious and trying not to be offensive and it gets pretty hilarious pretty fast, so here is some caricatureable atheism: I am an optimistic existential atheistic agnostic, who sees conundrums in and oftentimes denies the existence of anything all powerful, I would explain, but that would be not as funny, and we all need a laugh sometimes. Unliftable rock conundrum... look it up

[@kieran.grant_]

As an ex Mormon (not the church bashing type, no worries), I really resonated with Dalinar refusing to give up his pain to Odium. I'd be surprised if it was intentional, but to me the entire thing reminded me of the Mormon repentance process. All too often I would see people do something shitty and just plan on repenting later, or do something shitty and then act like it is totally in the past the instant they repent. Now, I'm not trying to say the repentance process is always like that. But often enough people just use it as a mechanism for shirking responsibility for the things they did, and Dalinar refusing to give up responsibility for his sins was especially powerful for me. I'm sure Brandon is fairly set in his beliefs. But he's written other beliefs/characters/viewpoints so well that it has often left me wondering if he is starting to doubt his own Mormon faith, and I think that's testament to how hard he is trying to write these stories. I feel seen, represented almost. And I think that's pretty cool coming from a current member of my old faith, one that isn't typically very kind to those who try to leave.

[@mischarowe]

I haven't read any of his books, so I can't say if he's doubting his faith. But from the snippets of him talking, I'd say it's unlikely. I think that he's one of those theists that - deep down - understands he's no rational reason for his faith, but is relying on his emotive reasons for continuing to believe. His decision. I'm just saying.

[@ninamimi6622]

You seem a fair man. I think it would be better for politics if people weren’t so divided. Quite often people on either side of the spectrum want the same thing. Politicians can use the divide to get away with things which don’t benefit any regular person.

[@ravenfrancis1476]

I can safely say that most people on either side do not want the same thing. Sure, there's some overlap, but it's very small and we often have vastly different solutions to reach what little common ground we do have. For example, the left (speaking generally) is pretty anti-capitalism and anti-corporatism. One of the things we most often advocate for is the abolishment of large megacorporations and heavy taxes on the rich. The right (speaking generally) don't typically have a problem with large corporations, unless they do something that can be moderately painted as slightly progressive compared to how our society normally functions - at which point they start turning into conspiracy theorists about how "the Jews" run the world and how Marxism has somehow made its way into large corporations (Despite any sort of communist ideology being fundamentally incompatible with any large corporation).

[@docstockandbarrel]

@@ravenfrancis1476 the problem is, you just characterized everyone on the right as wanting the exact same thing and not caring about corporate ethics, and everyone on the left not believing in free trade. Those characterizations are the kinds of things that keep the arguments going. Most people I have met want to be able to provide for their families in a safe environment where they’re able to believe as they wish. If that wish is assaulted by one side or the other or both, they find themselves having to choose between the lesser of the evils. In that way, I think most people are in the same boat.

[@ravenfrancis1476]

@@docstockandbarrel Tgere is a difference between "no free trade" and "preventing billionaires from exploiting the working class". You're totally wrong, by the way. Most people are not like that at all. If they were we wouldn't even need elected officials in the first place. Turns out, people's beliefs shape how they think the world should be run. Your beliefs are not being thrust into a context-less void, it affects everyone around us. That "believe as they wish" bit is dangerous because that's quite literally how we got the Nazis. And we didn't beat Hitler by just letting him take over Germany, we didn't stomp out the Klan by letting them believe what they wqnted, we actively shamed them at the very least.

[@docstockandbarrel]

@@ravenfrancis1476 there is a difference between being exploited and not also being wealthy. There are also a lot of people who aren’t on the left who thinks people shouldn’t be exploited and people who aren’t on the right think there should be freedom to not have a belief system pushed on them and their own belief system censored. It’s the way people think these things should happen, not necessarily the beliefs themselves that separate people. Also when you have people who live in make-believe because it works out better for them. That’s both sides. The problem is that many people don’t want equality, they want whatever group they belong with the be one charge and don’t care so much how that affects others. That’s also both sides. My problem with your statement was that you totally stereotyped two huge groups of people when the reality is that stereotype isn’t correct for either. Maybe talking points for each groups’ media, but not for the people themselves.

[@ravenfrancis1476]

@@docstockandbarrel Noone should be wealthy if there are people that struggle to survive. And no, don't pull the "both sides bad" bullshit. Leftism actually cares about ending systemic oppression, right wingers care about conserving it.

[@elaynegriffith]

Yes! As an atheist I agree 100% with all you said. Solid arguments, understanding, and conversation are severely lacking these days. If anyone’s wondering what an atheist’s pov is (at least this one): I think that we tend to stick with the beliefs systems we were most exposed to in youth, and that-y’know-being human is difficult & scary. Religion is usually centered around our fear of mortality (heaven) and lack of control (in Gods hands) to help us cope with all that. It also provides community. If believing in a higher power of some sort brings that comfort and order to the chaos, fine. I embrace the harsh reality that death is final and suffering is inevitable, but find comfort and deep meaning all around me in the wild beauty of the universe. (art & writing helps too 😜) I’ve always felt a sense of severe insecurity from those that try to shove their own beliefs on others with anger or disdain (I don’t mean proselytizing). Most Atheists give zero f@&%$ what anyone else believes and have a “you do you but don’t try to convert me” mindset. Trying to convince a staunch atheist that God exists is like trying to convince them that unicorns are real. Just not gonna happen because religion boils down to an emotional or communal need that the atheist has already fulfilled. I WISH unicorns were real, though! 😆 Thank you for this! Love your books. Write on ✏️📖🙌

[@julzbehr6696]

My belief explaination when talking to religious people: “I’m not religious, we can debate it. You are not going to convince me though. I am not trying to convince you either. Believe what you want if it makes you happy, I believe what I want” I don’t use art as an outlet, but funnily enough, dig deeper into the existential stuff, until it seems a goodish thing. Finality of death: I was dead billions of years already and never took notice, so when I’ll die, I’ll just “close my eyes, count to one that’s how long forever feels” No universal truth: I can make my own truth, and can easier accept the truths of others.

[@taragonleaf8005]

I like the subtle nudge that reddit frontpage is left.

[@odoloid]

That's an interesting idea. It's probably more left-leaning than Brandon's right-leaning family, at the very least.

[@ammonkunzler3948]

If it's not too much trouble, It'd be great if you could put a timestamp as well as a link for the livestream so we can pick up where the clip left off.

[@TrentMenssen]

This is a reason Jasnah is my favorite character of the Stormlight Archive. Her and I have had exactly the same thoughts and it's wonderful. I often actually point nerdy friends to her to help them understand me, and that kind of representation is incredibly powerful and helpful. Thank you for putting in the effort.

[@kieran.grant_]

I've always admired the honesty of writing *good* characters with a different belief system than his own. Oftentimes a religious author writing an atheist will make the character the villian, or at least kind of an asshole. Instead he's writing characters that actually help me with my own beliefs, like Jasnah talking about the Vorin church or Dalinar refusing to give up his pain/responsibility.

[@maxgoodfel3921]

I love this man

[@ddfstar7588]

Im LDS and i didnt even know you where one too. I like your books.

[@munchcat]

Seriously, this should be shared everywhere. At the very least starting at 3:25 if nothing else.

[@AetherXIV]

Brandon when I read "The Hero of Ages" and heard you think through Sazed I felt like I was reading from my own journal. I seriously wondered if you were an atheist now because you seemed to know how if Feels to long to find the True God -and only be disappointed. The fact that you were able to do that is evidence of a beautiful soul that is willing to truly listen and hurt with others. You mentioned wanting blogs from thoughtful people on alternate viewpoints, here is a 4min article: link.medium.com/OANDCLrRH8

[@seangriffey8669]

yo this was my question.

[@seangriffey8669]

Basically I really hate how a lot of atheist are portrayed as super cynical, or someone who only lost their faith because of some trauma. Most of us just kinda look at religion and go "meh, nah" and don't really care what others believe.

[@lockedin6699]

@@seangriffey8669 I dislike "militant atheists" that are very vocally against any figment of religion connotation in conversation or in media.

[@cryptofacts4u]

I got to say that as an atheist, it was a shock to find out that you're Mormon. Because I'm a huge Orson Scott card fan, my favorite book of his was literally written by him to try to explain why a good God allows bad things to happen. I still love the story even if I don't think that the reason he wrote it has any relation to our reality. I was shocked because it is seemingly rare to find someone who's able to separate their beliefs from their writing or stories. I love your take on all of this btw! Please keep up the amazing work! I I've been reading you since elantris and I think that by the end of all this, you're going to be looked at as our generations Tolkien

[@eiknarfp6391]

I was raised atheist and used to be a fanatic antitheist, I am now a conservative Christian, I think that the way that the conversations go around theological topics in The Stormlight Archives is very realistic. Often a well founded belief can seem stupid if it is argued poorly

[@MissHolliday3110]

I think you need to be able to think beyond yourself in order to craft a convincing villain. Villains (good ones, in my opinion) are people that represent an aspect of humanity that is magnified to reveal things that were fear in humanity. For example, a person who does horrific things but for reasons that we can understand, or even sympathize with. They're there villain because when we, as moral beings do there analysis, we conclude that the ends don't justify their means; their ideas aren't fully incorrect but their conclusions are dangerous.

[@Nova04550]

Utmost respect for the kind of respect that he gives to other view points. As an atheist I will try to do the same for religious people when I can. To hear a really good representation of Atheism check out Sam Harris!

[@Gorboduc]

Not just a great teacher, but the fastest grader I've ever seen.

[@gatorama666]

-I on reddit, you know, i like to interact there -I'm left politct -I see someone that is right polict as my family and makes me angry

[@Randomjarofmarmarlad]

A great way to understand the perspective of an atheist, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. is to talk to one. To read what they read, pick up the book they hold close to their hearts and look through it with an open mind to find what may be appealing. If they give you a passage to read, read it and see why they might like it. Even better, see and try to understand why some people don't. A few talk shows on KZbin (Axp and Talk Heathen) actually do this, so looking them up could also help expand one's perspective.

[@Wolfimoon]

Good topic! I really want to write in religions that aren't patently true, as is habitual in fantasy, but I'm really struggling with it. Preferably as background information, not major plot. I'm an atheist who tried a couple things unsuccessfully, and while I have religious friends, it's not something we talk about. When I have, it generally turned into a conversion attempt and that stops being fun fast. Anyways, it's hard to imagine faith for me without writing in a logical proof for it in my world. I've always felt there is a block on my ability to believe, something that has led me to not even believe in souls. Yet I always curse with "god" and it messes with my writing unless I add a religion or two. Something to work on.

[@luisoncpp]

Hmmm, I think what you need to understand for your purpose is that religious people can think very different one from another and the beliefs of some of them may contradict the beliefs of others (even if they are from the same religion). Some examples: artists can have religion as an inspiration for their work; a guy that is fighting for a revolution can see religion as a way of seeking the help of God for overthrowing a tyrant, or even think that their are tools from God to overthrow the tyrant; theologians experience religion as a way of seeking the truth; politicians could see it as a tribe to either use to win supporters or fight against to; a scientist could find inspiration by thinking that their discoveries decipher the mind of God(for example, check this quote of Galileo "mathematics is the language in which God has written the universe"), etc. Btw, I haven't seen as something common in fantasy for religions to be "patently true", for adult fantasy, I think that's the exception rather than the rule. If you are looking for examples, aside from Brandon Sanderson's novels, I think Song of Ice and Fire does a pretty good job of depicting multiple religions in an ambiguous way, The Kingkiller Chronicle does a decent job. If I recall correctly, the Witcher also gives some kind of ambiguity, but I only read the first book and half of the second, so I don't know if later it becomes more clear. EDIT: oh, I forgot a couple of other examples that could be very useful for world building in a fantasy novel. People that are in a disadvantages circumstance(like being poor, castaway, or systematically oppressed in other way) could put their hopes either in that God will favor them in the afterlife or that God will bring justice and things will go better for them.

[@Wolfimoon]

@@luisoncpp Thanks, yeah, I think the trick is not to reduce it to that only though. I don't want to just depict religion as being a means to justify actions not because that doesn't happen, but I don't think it's fair to people with true faith. Even in GoT, there's some magic justifications for the gods, not just pure belief, although that's certainly a thing. But it's also a big part of the plot, and there's some promise that we'll actually learn more about the truth. My attempt to think of classics for example is stymied by not being able to remember religion in them, except for LoTR, which has real gods. And Pratchett obviously has a whole book on gods. Maybe it is just the recent books I've read, like Jemisin's prior trilogy to Broken Earth, where the gods are actual characters and the creation is presented as fact.

[@josephcourtright8071]

So think about all the scientific theories that have been wrong over the years. They had been wrong no because the people who made them were stupid but because they were working with incomplete information. Make your world's physics first. If supernatural forces exist define them. Then give your ancient people an incomplete set of observations. Have them draw conclusions upon that, then ingrain that believe in society. Example : Black Death shows up and people notice an increase in the population of cats. Therefore Cats spread the black death and must be removed. Remember don't make the people stupid, just make them make the wrong observations. Then grind those observations into your culture so much they hold them sacred. Some of their conclusions can be right, others can wrong.

[@shortassbd]

Christian and right leaning myself, totally get what he’s saying. Feel like I’m constantly trying to understand why other people are thinking/doing what they do and talk about that, rather than just reacting and simplifying like most everyone else

[@badlydrawnturtle8484]

A big part of this, too, is taking people at their word; when someone says tells you what they think, just... assume that's what they mean, for a change, rather than attempting to puzzle out some hidden implication. So much of the time, people try to find the supposed hidden meanings behind words, not realizing that most people are pretty straightforward.

[@ditzykunoichi]

Brandon Sanderson might be one of the extremely few famous people I actually believe when he says these things.

[@ospritely8144]

I'm so glad to finally know why Brandon is religious, and a member of the CoLDS. From what he says here, he's had a genuine religious experience and he bases his faith on that. Fantastic. I wish beyond measure that I could experience the same, and get some peace of mind. If I could base my faith around more than apocryphal tales I would be able to live a happy man.

[@julzbehr6696]

Or just find something in your life that represents your faith/beliefs/religion or however you call it... To the point! Look in you life for things that happened that strengthened your faith. Big tale: a friend of mine, was hit by a car when crossing a street. She was unconscious for 7 hours and a minor concussion. Nothing else, she believes her god was looking down on her. It strengthened her beliefs. Smaller tale: Another friend of mine had to read out an essay of hers that was awesome, in front of the whole school because of some writing competition. She is very shy and usually freaks out in those cases, but this time she saw me and the friend from the story above and some other of our friends in the back of the audience we were all holding up boards wit tens on them, and she managed to get well through it. She believes her god guided her sight that day and it strengthened her faith. I personally are not religious, and sometimes, when it comes up, discussion can get pretty weird. I always arrive at my “belief” “if it makes you happy, great, believe what you want, I believe what I want, nothing”

[@ospritely8144]

@@julzbehr6696 Thank you, I'm gladdened to hear stories like yours, they hit home and describe how I have thought about god most of my life. That assurance that he was giving me confidence and guiding my actions was increadibly comforting. Now I'm older, had a lot of bad stuff happen to me and my family, and befriended more people, i've been thinking more critically about my own beliefs I can't seem to take that assurance for granted anymore. And without any real experience of god I can't seem to believe at all even though I want to. With all the needless suffering my family (and the world) has gone through recently, now I just can't separate my veiw of the universe from a bunch of random dice rolls. That's why I'm so envious of Brandon, he's secure in his knowledge, but without that individual evidence I can't believe in a higher power.

[@julzbehr6696]

Ospritely well, that’s why most religions have an antagonist... I think? I’m a bit out of my comfort zone here... just say problems come from heck

[@Jagunco]

I remember 20 years ago and I was still an evangelical christian I was working in Canada (I'm British) and, being late for a get together or something I called a taxi. The driver was a Hindu I think (Possibly a Shik, it was ages ago). We had a 20 minute conversation about religions, it came up because he asked why I was in Canada and I told him I was working for a Christian Charity. Well it was all fine, on the way out the taxi he told me to be a good Christian and I told him to be a good Hindu. I mentioned it when I got in and there were a couple of people openly critical about how I'd not tried to convert him or tell him where his religion went wrong. I mentioned what we'd said when I got out and got laughed at. I said 'what was I meant to say? Burn in hell heathen?' I've not been religious for years, mostly through stupid incidents like that and just loosing faith in people.

[@momoftwoorthree]

I appreciate your perspective!! I hate how the "political sides" ridicule each other! Difficult to have a conversation with someone who doesn't listen, or thinks it is ok to bully or ridicule others.

[@fatdave6266]

Fascists only deserve ridicule (and maybe a noose around their neck)

[@mq8858]

Respect +100

[@ts25679]

I always try to understand the for and against in subjects, because most all of human inventions are tool to describe, interrogate and understand the universe we are a part of. But all throughout my schooling my essays would fail because I wanted to deliver a measured view of the subject. Is the tool of tribalism set against understanding and tolerance?

[@FabbrizioPlays]

Thank you for not writing atheists as irreverent to anything that has the nerve to exist. The bar should not be so low, but most writers let it show that they either dislike atheists or feel threatened by us. And some of us deserve such criticism. But the silent majority simply don't find comfort in any god or religion, and don't feel the need to keep it in our lives, and that's really the end of it. I have personal issues with religion but I would happily accept a truce just to not have to answer to people for my non-belief.

[@JohnDoe-gg1jn]

can you link us the blogs you refer to please?

[@lordhoboofsavior36]

I'm an atheist but I'm not actually an atheist, I just wanna said that sentence because I'm seeing a lot of comment that start or have the sentence of 'I am a atheist', it starting to get really annoying because the comment are more or less the same, nothing new but I can't help but to join in the bandwagon.