How does bending... work? 🤔 | Avatar

[@Dohyden2]

To the characters it's not magic because this is their reality. But to the viewer, yes, it's 100% magic.

[@MyopicPowerhouse]

There's definitely magic in-universe though, seperate from bending.

[@barunjena4287]

Not me

[@azzarudders]

its not really magic though, its its own system based on ki and martial arts

[@alch_emist]

​@@alexjames7144 It's still not magic in their universe tho. Plus if you apply this kind of logic in other media (comics, anime, cartoon...), the tiniest hand-to-hand fight suddenly becomes "magic"

[@MyopicPowerhouse]

@@azzarudders Bending is not considered magic in-universe. Out of universe it is a 100% unexplained phenomenon with seemingly no basis in scientific reality. Also known as "magic". Even in-universe, they have a fish destroy the moon. THe moon. A giant space rock which has a mass of 73,476,730, 900,000,000,000,000kg's Dissapears When a fish Dies. THAT IS CALLED MAGIC

[@hyun-shik7327]

In writing it’s still considered a magic system. It’s hard magic but it’s still what broadly counts as a magic system.

[@draco_1876]

That’s like saying the x gene is magic. Bending is purely physics

[@bartomiejbarciak5266]

​@@draco_1876 Ah yes, i must have missed science class explaining how to move rocks using my willpower and how to breathe fire

[@e.9874]

​@@SimpleEats35 The rules very much are outright stated, quite a lot actually, there are multiple episodes that focus on learning bending principles since Aang is still learning them. There's also a lot of casual dialog that informs us of what is and is not possible. It's a very hard magic system

[@ParadiseDB7]

No

[@junkred9466]

@@draco_1876 bro, everything that can’t exist in the real world is basically magic, whether it’s based on physics or not, and whatever they call it in the story. Plus, the concept of the four elements is not based on modern physics but on older beliefs of physics

[@Stormchazer246]

“Conjuring doesn’t exist here” Firebenders: *conjure fire out of thin air*

[@GriffonSpade]

Technically possible without magic. But that's not what's happening here. Proceed. 😂

[@nicknick_nick]

You can absolutely combust air

[@Stormchazer246]

@@nicknick_nick Oxygen is combustible, yes. But plain old air by itself is not flammable.

[@discordsanaperomalakifile5688]

Tbf they don’t conjure fire. They get heat anywhere. Fires, energy, comets and from the sun. That’s why they can’t firebend during the eclipse. Which doesn’t make sense cuz there is still energy. Also they can still firebend at night. Still they don’t conjure fire.

[@eldonallen497]

@@Stormchazer246isn’t it an extension of there breath? I remember iron saying smth ab that

[@tinasnow_]

Magic is earned and learned in most stories lol

[@bartomiejbarciak5266]

Remember how hardly korra earmed her bending as a todler?

[@MrSeals1000]

​@@bartomiejbarciak5266 Just being able to bend it doesn't mean anything lol Korra wasn't declaired a master of her bending until she had been taken away for years to be trained. Aang learned to bend earth, fire, and water on the first day he was taught. He would still need time to master them, just as Korra did.

[@redwolfe7049]

This isn't one of those stories.

[@KajtekBeary]

@@redwolfe7049so magic is not hard to learn there..? Bending is a magic system. More specifically hard rational magic system (Tolkien’s world has magic that would be classified as soft, irrational and harry potter’s universe has hard irrational. Soft rational magic systems are rather rare, though you can probably say that one piece’s haki fits there), and its a very classic example of that trope

[@israelip]

Yes. The creators just want to be different doing the same thing.

[@chimyshark]

producers: conservation of matter conservation of energy: am I a joke to you??!!

[@LuciferDFallN1]

Fire bending: yes

[@ahleenah]

Waterbending in a way, too. Since they create and melt ice at will

[@chimyshark]

@@ahleenah that’s true, I was mostly talking about the biggest energy factor which is the elements being moved and thrown around at rapid speed, especially earth bending requiring the most, but definitely the latent heat energy of changing states of water is another energetic component.

[@Leporidae1]

​@@chimyshark I think that's where chi comes in

[@omegatronousgalacticus7750]

Didn't you know Physics went out to buy milk and never came back

[@rainbowmothraleo]

"This ability is based in actual physics" Ah yes, this law of physics that allows me to shoot fire from my arms

[@skkygavin9509]

It just seems like magic with extra steps and logic

[@quirkyblackenby]

It’s definitely magic

[@plumeriaxoxo4042]

thats what science is

[@skkygavin9509]

@@plumeriaxoxo4042 great I want to be an air bender 🤣I get what you mean though

[@drogadepc]

Fantasy-wise it's magic. But in the universe of Avatar it's not.

[@scatmanjohnfan22]

It literally is

[@junkred9466]

Magic can be earned and learned, magic can be whatever you want it to be in your world. Bending is magic, it’s just « hard » magic, then you can call it whatever you want within the universe but it stays a magic system like any other power gimmick In fact, bending is a very appreciated reference among hard magic systems out there because of its very grounded rules

[@Lylslet]

What they’re trying to say is that magic involves conjuring and creating something from nothing. The creators are saying that everything in the world of avatar still is rooted in real world physics to a degree and everything has an explanation and reason within that world.

[@xristosmakris4477]

Τυηηηθηθ

[@junkred9466]

@@Lylslet that’s because it is hard magic, magic doesn’t involve conjuring and creating from nothing in every worldbuilding, magic is only limited by what the creators want it to be. A hard magic system is grounded with rules, a soft magic system is foggy and mysterious (like in the Lord of the Rings), then within the universe it can be call whatever you want, for flavor, like bending, alchemy (FMA), allomancy (Mistborn), etc. But if it can’t exist in real life then it’s magic, whether it’s based in something real or not

[@eyeofthefractal6881]

It's a magic system to us because it's not a natural part of our existence. But to characters in the fiction, it is a natural occurrence like weather patterns or gravity.

[@junkred9466]

@@eyeofthefractal6881 yes but this can apply to any magic then, if it exists within the world then it’s natural

[@MrJodrick]

Fire benders don't just bend fire, they create it, that's Magic

[@MadSkull]

Or lighting.

[@kmshana94]

they don't create it. there's two schools of thought, the benders from Avatar would say that they are simply bending the sun's energy and the heat energy they give off. Scientifically, they are rapidly increasing the molecules of oxygen around them that cause the fire to ignite. Lightning is a variant because they are charging the molecules around as well. its still magic but they aren't really creating it, they are just manipulating it, like the rest of the benders.

[@Lutherstrode17492]

That’s like saying storm clouds are magic

[@MrJodrick]

@@Lutherstrode17492 bruh what... storm clouds are a natural system on the planet, a fire bender creating fire IS NOT NATURAL

[@Fitz1993]

​@@Lutherstrode17492No it's not because there are actual real reasons for why clouds exist and it's not just some writer saying, no it's not magic it's earnt the right to make lightning...

[@max.s5202]

Avatar: We don't do magic here ok? We simply bend the elements. Korra: Hold my laserbeam! I'm gonna bend those spirits' emotions now!!!

[@purpleclaws202]

Spirits are a belief system not magic

[@MrSeals1000]

Honestly I think being suspended in the avatar state for ONE HUNDRED YEARS and not aging seems like its on equal footing with anything Korra did

[@crabcrab3048]

⁠@@MrSeals1000, well, Aang put himself into cryosleep. Not to mention, he also died at a pretty young age, that being 66 years.

[@tristanjordan2709]

​@@purpleclaws202not in avatar lol They are a very real force to be reckoned with😅

[@MyopicPowerhouse]

@@purpleclaws202 L-take. There's unexplained "spirit magic" ALL OVER the world of AtLA.

[@heyfell4301]

"Magic does not exist in the world of Avatar" Spirits: 🤔

[@denizakarca0405]

"the creators will LETTUCE know"

[@OMGItsVee303]

Lol

[@BarrakDraconis]

"It's not magic, it's learned and relies on an inner power (chi)" ...That's magic. Wizardry. "Users need earth and water to be present and can't just create it" So air-, earth-, and waterbending are Transmutation, not Evocation. Still magic.

[@purpleclaws202]

Nope

[@SuperEffector]

⁠@@purpleclaws202Very solid argument.

[@MELol-n4h]

No. Chi is spiritual energy, the life force personified.

[@BarrakDraconis]

@@MELol-n4h That's a lot of words for "magic". Benders are throwing fire, evoking lightning, and telekinetically manipulating everything else. Chi is a concept we already have in reality, and no real-world spiritual guru is yanking rocks out of the ground with martial arts poses.

[@fuzzypickle9537]

​@@MELol-n4h So chi is basically mana

[@sprocket403]

Honestly, this plays into my headcannon that the firebending teacher for the next Avatar could be someone who managed to recreate thr feeling of Sozin's comet for a one-time attack. The drawback being they can't firebend at all for a while after they do it, and it takes time to build up strength to that level.

[@lumigitafinance]

This is brilliant

[@sprocket403]

@@lumigitafinance Thanks.

[@Noleji]

Where can I watch this show bro, take my money ASAP

[@nunyabidnes6010]

​@@lumigitafinance WRONG

[@nunyabidnes6010]

Makes no sense

[@Kalahridudex]

I really love how they pulled off a system of magic that respects causality and the primacy of reality while still feeling magical to the viewer. Not an easy feat.

[@MyopicPowerhouse]

Yeah it's awesome

[@TheDeathmail]

It's called "hard magic" meaning your magic has specific rules.... Having scientific and specific rules doesn't make it not magic...

[@pando0884]

in the world of avatar it's not magic. In our world it still is magic

[@redwolfe7049]

​@@pando0884well said

[@NapaCat]

To them it wouldn't be magic. In their universe, "magic" as a force doesn't exist as bending. In writing terms it is, but not diagetically.

[@mherrmann81687]

It's all in the eye of the beholder, and how they connect it to their knowledge and experience

[@joesunday199]

It's actually soft magic. Bending is more flexible than most magic systems. Like how Bloodbending originally could only be used during a Full Moon but it can now be used by at least 3 members of one family. Or what is required when Lightningbending.

[@tatsumakijim]

To us, bending is magic. Calling it not magic doesn't make it any better or worse. It's just how the avatar world works.

[@can-i-go-now]

"It not magic its something earned something you learn"... That's called magic.

[@Lutherstrode17492]

No, it’s called bending. It’s not magic, because the show tells you it isn’t magic, it’s a martial art

[@Lucci136]

​@@Lutherstrode17492it's magic called bending. It's not a martial art.

[@GriffonSpade]

​@@Lucci136I mean, it's a martial art insofar as it's useful to attack people with.

[@indianspartan724]

anything that cant be explained by Normal means is Just magic for us. that includes Bending. @@Lutherstrode17492

[@SwellStuff483]

“It’s just magic with extra steps”

[@comradecaspy]

“It’s not magic” >proceeds to add spiritbending and combustionbending

[@SantiMarshmallow]

How is combustion bending magic?

[@comradecaspy]

@@SantiMarshmallow it’s less about your own body and more about telekensis

[@sthepcorms6747]

Still not Magic

[@comradecaspy]

@@sthepcorms6747 telekensis is a form of magic you oaf.

[@SwellStuff483]

I guess if you want to get really granular you can say that telekinesis is sci-fi rather than magic

[@Jaredpoth]

Chi is literally the magic source then!

[@Lutherstrode17492]

Chi is an energy source. It’s spiritual not magic

[@artistaroundtheblock2047]

@@Lutherstrode17492 Magic: the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces. Since they use supernatural forces to make elements do things they wouldn’t have done, it’s magic.

[@Lutherstrode17492]

@@artistaroundtheblock2047 Katara: “It’s not magic, it’s waterbending.” Dude, just give up. The characters and the co-creators both agree that bending isn’t magic. They created the f ing show, they have the authority to make that decision.

[@mr.noframe2085]

​@@Lutherstrode17492 its just another word for the abilities they have. It does not take away from the story in any way, it just describes their powers. Like how you could call power-ups in mario magic, or superman magic or quirks magic. It is just another word for supernatural powers. I understand that the creators do not call It magic, but bending fits into the definition of the word. Just like calling bending an "ability" or a "power" or "supernatural trait", "magic" Is just a descriptive word.

[@Lutherstrode17492]

@@mr.noframe2085 Superman’s powers are biological. Not magic

[@user-ti5cw1ug6l]

Manipulation of elements and making fire out of your own chi is magic bruh. It's not something they can just do either. It was originally bestowed upon them by lion turtles.

[@jowolf2187]

It's magic that's loosely tied to real world martial arts and taking a very vague grounding in physics (kinda like how in the Sorcerer's Apprentice film the way they described sorcerers creating fire and doing other magic was by manipulating the world around them at the atomic level - speeding up, slowing down, or changing molecules). It's still very much magic, but it has a more rigid structure and rulebook than many other magic systems.

[@benji9870]

“It’s not magic” proceeds to talk about how this form of magic requires real things, and not actually how it’s not magic.

[@MyopicPowerhouse]

The world of AtlA ABSOLUTELY has magic. The moon dissapears when a fish gets killed. The moon. A giant space rock. Dissapears. When a fish. Dies. That's called MAGIC.

[@amberglass7397]

to be more specific, it's spirituality, but yeah, atla spirits are easily considered magical

[@lilshilup1596]

the moon disappeared because the one night it’s soul became mortal it was killed

[@user-bf3yh6ue7p]

You talk like you think any fish killed would do that, even more fish was just a form taken by them

[@MyopicPowerhouse]

@@amberglass7397 Oh absolutely, they're considered magical. For it to be scientific*, spirituality itself would need to be considered scientific in the real world.. and yeah, well, it isn't haha. The eastern themes and culture AtLA draws on have nothing wrong with them (actually awesome imo), there's no shame in a bit of magic.

[@OfflineGamerNL]

​@@lilshilup1596I'm pretty sure the one night thing is only in the live action interpetation. In the cartoon they gave up their immorality permenantly I believe

[@Supremecommander18]

Even when you put like that it still sounds like magic

[@Eman02kG]

The second you mention chi of any sort it’s sorcery lol

[@MyopicPowerhouse]

Kinda, although the chi/ki of eastern martial arts is mostly a spiritual, airy-fairy semi-religious sort of thing... so the real world chi isn't sorcery But if you're referring to Dragonball, then, oh yes absolutely.

[@GriffonSpade]

​@@MyopicPowerhouseIf your airy-fairy, spiritual stuff is being used to affect the world or other airy-fairy, spiritual stuff, it's magic. Lol

[@flon3070]

Its like transmutation wizardry mixed with sport

[@fbeneditovm]

Conservation of mass implies conservation of energy.

[@purpleclaws202]

Please get a girlfriend

[@fbeneditovm]

@@purpleclaws202 Make me! 🤣

[@Chronologist89]

So, in the AtlA universe, there is no pair production or matter-anti-matter-annihilation? Where did all the stuff in their universe come from then? Maybe magic?

[@mite3959]

the energy comes from within the bender

[@Chronologist89]

@@mite3959 The problem is, if that was the case, benders would need to chug liters of pure butter with sugar every second.

[@LygarZeroX]

it is martial arts plus elemental magic. if the sun and moon can affect the abilities, it is basically magic.

[@philippegauvin-vallee9371]

While mass is preserved, energy definitely is not. The lore also describes bending as a form of telekinesis.

[@jibbily27]

It is magic under a broad definition, the point they're really driving is that it's not wizardry

[@HarlanMalkavian]

Magic with scientific rules is still magic. And earning magic with hard studies don't makes it less magic.

[@thekasura8712]

Dude it’s magic. You’re shooting flames from your body.

[@Lutherstrode17492]

It’s not magic, it’s firebending. Also with that logic, does that mean Human Torch is magic? He also shoots fire from his body

[@Hater20X]

​@@Lutherstrode17492yes. Human torch is and all superheros with super abilities is considered a magic system.

[@pandogstudios1512]

@@Hater20XMagic system out of universe (though we’d just call them superpowers in this context) yes but not “supernatural or arcane magic.” It’s biological for him. It’d be like calling the poison that comes from spider bites magic.

[@Hater20X]

@@pandogstudios1512 no because you can scientifically explain Spider poison. Its a substance that creat in their bodies using protiens . Human torch flames make no sense. In order to creat fire you need fuel. He could be using his skin as fuel but that wouldn't really creat that much fire. At least not the the amout he is spttting out.

[@TheMetaKirby]

Some might not have known that fire bending is the only bending that is created from the bender with no outside source. So yes, MAGIC!

[@epiccthulu]

“something that is learned, something that is earned” My D&D brain: Pretty sure you’re born a bender so its more like sorcery than wizardry

[@MyopicPowerhouse]

It's like, Sorcery but they're all monk/sorceror multiclass because they can't access thier sorcery until they learn martial arts

[@epiccthulu]

@@MyopicPowerhouse Well to be strict, they are sorcerers. If you remove the name of the monk class, a monk is something anyone can do just by joining a school. Not so with benders

[@MyopicPowerhouse]

@@epiccthulu No what i mean is, they're like sorceror-monks, who cant even ACCESS thier sorceror abilities until they learn the things monks need to learn

[@epiccthulu]

@@MyopicPowerhouse yea and my point is that because no one can choose to become a bender, that it is based on how you were born, that makes all benders sorcerers

[@MyopicPowerhouse]

I agree, but they also need to train in martial arts to use bending at all - they need to train and learn extensively, making them yes sorcerors, who have a monk-style learning process@@epiccthulu

[@TheBaselessMountain]

So...... magic

[@frostmagemarii]

Yup. They're just being prissy about their magic system.

[@Novictus]

​@austine1425There is a massive difference in making a lightbulb and wiggling you fingers to make water come out of a cloud.

[@Hater20X]

​@@Novictusthe worse one to explain is fire come out of you without fuel.. and no oxygen is not fuel for fire. Its part of the fire triangle. You still need a fuel source.

[@GriffonSpade]

​@@NovictusBut here's the thing: people truly believed, as a fictitious example, that you could wiggle your fingers, and it would do *something* that caused rain to fall. Real rules of the world that were just beyond the understanding of most people. Whether that just happened to be a thing, or it would cause the spirit of a cloud to giggle, or whatever.

[@pena6673]

Don't worry in the live action finnish dub they translated 'bending' as 'loitsut' which means 'spells' 😊

[@caiomarcellusmartins9267]

And fire benders what are they burning to make the flames?

[@originalrandom]

Iron says it comes from the breath. Oxygen becomes energy in the body. That energy is focused and released as fire. Focus even more and it becomes lightning.

[@Choco_paz]

Oxygen and atp in their body in the form of chi

[@Choco_paz]

oxygen

[@manguyperson2917]

You do have a point. For fire to combust it needs, heat, fuel and oxygen. We assume that fire benders can produce enough heat as required and oxygen is everywhere on earth, but where do they get the fuel?

[@Merilirem]

@@manguyperson2917 I just assumed it all came from energy bending. As in the energy within oneself acts like MP instead of being directly bent.

[@SandrinoEscobar]

It is magic. It's just what's known as a "hard magic system". In fact, this show is often cited as an example of those.

[@cesar.rodrigues]

no matter what they say, this is a magic system

[@Lutherstrode17492]

That’s like saying the x gene is magic💀

[@soupofdoom4542]

​@@Lutherstrode17492huh? how so?

[@Lutherstrode17492]

@@soupofdoom4542 because calling something magic, doesn’t automatically mean it’s magic. The x gene isn’t magic, and bending isn’t magic.

[@soupofdoom4542]

@@Lutherstrode17492 it is, by definition, a magic system. to us, at least. to the characters in the show it's reality, but to us its supernatural. op isnt just calling it magic for the goofs and the laughs, it just is

[@Lutherstrode17492]

@@soupofdoom4542 supernatural doesn’t equal magic. It’s not magic, it’s bending

[@nunalunaberey_]

Just wanna say how much I appreciate that you put actual captions on the vid! Most creators don’t go to the trouble especially for a short, so I was pleasantly surprised!

[@KeiTheOne991]

Full Element Alchemist: The Avatar

[@AceTaxiaGaming]

Alchemy is a magic system too

[@KeiTheOne991]

@@AceTaxiaGaming ok? I compared the two things as a joke. But please explain. 😂

[@RedMan-zy3kz]

I have also come to see bending as a type of telekinesis, the martial arts are just the best way to channel your will into action

[@AznJsn82091]

Firebending may be an exception though

[@Hi-yk5os]

⁠@KirkLabotsthe power of the chi aka the stomach I think and the breath as well

[@21preend42]

​@@Hi-yk5os I think it's more of a plothole if they want to go scietific on this, i mean lightning and that explosive power is also a thing. That's a lot of power.

[@Hi-yk5os]

@@21preend42 Lightning is created by the positive and negative chi and you have to be emotionally stable Combustion bending is ASSUMED to be pressure bending ppl learned by fire bending deep under water with immense pressure (Yangchen novel)

[@internetexplorer3999]

​@@Hi-yk5osbut at this point the waterbenders would have to generate cold energy or remove heat to make the ice become water, but no one is able to do this, we never see benders who are able to make it snow without needing to bend water

[@theshuman100]

simple. phlogistons

[@VitalEwe]

Lil timmy trying to airbend now😂😂

[@malindarayallen]

If bending were truly a skill, then more than one person would be able to learn multiple types of bending - just as a person can study more than one kind of martial art. The fact that there is only one Avatar shows that it's not just a skill.

[@eyeofthefractal6881]

Bending is a skill, but it requires being born with the proper appendage to use it. Just like a person born without hands can't play guitar.

[@eyeofthefractal6881]

Getting this appendage is actually possible, but it is a forgotten art in the fiction throughout most of the Avatar cycles. Once mankind left the Lion Turtle cities and the first avatar closed the pole gates to the spirit realm the art was quickly lost. Bending at its roots is bending of energy and Aang was actually the first person in the fiction to learn the ability granting him a way to give and take away bending. Now technically anyone can learn this but they would need to either seek out the Avatar or a Lion Turtle to learn this skill and because of how powerful it is the person would have to be deemed worthy as it is a power on par with that of the Avatar as energy bending could technically give a parson the ability to master all elements like the Avatar which could very easily throw the world out of balance.

[@malindarayallen]

@@eyeofthefractal6881 I hear that, but Korra was able to turn nonetheless into benders due to accessing the spirit realm. If that's not magic, then it's at least religion. Also, why are people only able to do the bending of their own nation? What about the cities where fire nation and earth nation mixed?

[@malindarayallen]

@@eyeofthefractal6881 Also, there are plenty of magical systems where you have to be born with the ability to do the magic.

[@eyeofthefractal6881]

@malindarayallen So the spirits are worshipped by some and are treated not unlike the spirits we believe in in our reality. But the difference, though, is these spirits can interact with reality in a very physical way, especially after the northern and southern poles were reopened. So it's one part religion and one part nature lol. Similar to what humankind in reality has experienced while worshipping real-world forces like the sun and trees. As far as mixed bender relationships go they can end up with either of the benders abilities, or niether, but not both because the forces that give you access to any one of the elements is "large" enough that a normal human spirit could not contain more than one of these forces at once. The Avatar is a unique case because the Avatar is actually the spirit of light and peace (Raava) reincarnated in human form. When the first avatar died, Raava "blessed" with the potential to bend all four elements found a new physical body in a way that is not fully understood (because mystery of afterlife stuff lol) granting that person avatarhood and connecting that new life to all the previous lives touched by Raava.

[@SledderVR]

If i had bending powers IRL im for sure choosing Earth bc... well... earth/ground is every where 😂

[@bartomiejbarciak5266]

I hate people insisting that avatar doesnt have magic just because it's called differently

[@Lutherstrode17492]

The creators and characters in the show, have literally stated that bending isn’t magic. I’ll quote Katara from the first episode: “Ugh, it’s not magic, it’s waterbending.”

[@bartomiejbarciak5266]

@@Lutherstrode17492 if Harry Potter said he doesnt use magic, would that make him not using magic? Bending is magic

[@Lutherstrode17492]

@@bartomiejbarciak5266 again, let me quote Katara: “Ugh, it’s not magic, it’s waterbending.” Literally early on, the writers made it abundantly clear that bending isn’t magic

[@bartomiejbarciak5266]

@@Lutherstrode17492 It's not meat, it's beef, the farmer made it abundantly clear

[@Lutherstrode17492]

@@bartomiejbarciak5266 farmers know best, dude. The creators of Avatar know best.

[@kawaiigoomy3487]

This is why the line between sci-fi and fantasy is so blurred. I think I need a deeper explanation from him because I’m getting caught up on the spiritual aspects of bending. To me bending is a hard magic system. If bending is physics based then it’s abiding to their universes natural laws, not our own. Also, in theory, could their future scientists manipulate who has the ability to bend if the reason is grounded in scientific principle? In my opinion, they are better off keeping bending a little mysterious. Too much information can hurt world building, especially in a fantasy. It ruins the magic so to speak. I respect the creators and I’m so thankful for ATLA. I hope they can elaborate on what they mean by Avatar not having magic. The community seems polarized about this.

[@drorta109]

I dont know if it will work but air has both hydrogen and oxigen, so it may be possible to waterbend the air

[@TheBreadLord_]

Hamma the bloodbender could get water out of thin air, so i think this is why

[@drorta109]

@@TheBreadLord_ oh really? I remember she could bend water from flowers but not actually thin air, cool!

[@davidakiogbe5275]

​@TheBreadLord_ Firstly her name is "Hama" not "Hamma" l, secondly hydrogen only takes up 0.000055 percent of the atmosphere....she could pull water out of humid air she couldn't actually form it in the air

[@Mello-208]

​@@davidakiogbe5275i vaguely remember her saying that they made sure the air was dry in the prison she was held in? I could be mistaken

[@davidakiogbe5275]

A waterbender CREATING water is not only canonical impossible but scientifically as well....and the show makers have said that they try to keep to science as much as they can....waterbenders can only PULL water out of a source like humid air, not regular air....if so they would be able to bend water out of the desert...but they can't because deserts have dry air

[@gustavakerman2566]

I have a pet peeve with lightning redirection because it’s always directed upwards, but the electricity of lightning always wants to go downwards from the negatively charged air to the positively charged ground. Iroh should have shown it redirected down and not up, because that would make the science even more realistic! In fact, an earthbender could technically hard counter lightningbending by simply connecting the lightning to ground using their bending as an improvised lighting rod.

[@GriffonSpade]

Hate to break it to you, but like half of lightning bolts don't strike the ground. If the air is more positively charged than the ground, it's no issue. Cloud to ground, cloud to cloud, intra-cloud, and cloud to air are the four kinds of lightning bolts.

[@gustavakerman2566]

@@GriffonSpade oh yeah that’s right. Well that fixes most of it

[@nikolaibuscho5881]

It's still something that doesn't have a huge precedent in real world science. So while it is a hard system, it is still magic. However, what I really came to say is that fire bending is the manipulation of superheated air so much that it glows. So fire bending wouldn't smell like smoke. It would smell like ozone.

[@MyopicPowerhouse]

That wouldnt be firebending, it would be plasmabending

[@GriffonSpade]

That precedent isn't actually important. It just happens to be that everything known in real life ascribed to magic has had mundane, material causes. Not that magic is necessarily not part of science. It's an important logical distinction!

[@MyopicPowerhouse]

@@GriffonSpade I 100% agree with you that it isn't important. But lets just remember why we're on this thread in the first place; the Original Post (the video) claims that the precedent IS important, and that Avatar is predicated on real-world science. Which is obviously, demonstrably false.

[@kolyashinkarev7366]

That actually makes sense that fire benders don't just conjure fire, they manipulate the energy state of air particles (Lightning bending would be moving charged particles). That would imply they can't fire bend in the vacuum. Also I'm interested if it implies they only can manipulate energy states in a particular gas in the air or they can do it in any gas (or perhaps even any MATTER, since we know they can heat water. That would be fun to see a firebender set fire to dirt😂)

[@EternalExquisite]

Superman enters their universe Creator: “…. It’s magic!”

[@מטררול]

The only time I remember that something bothered me in avatar was when Aang shrunk the rocks in the avatar state against Ozai

[@xstoofpeer]

Rock can become more dense

[@marijnverheggen6482]

He didnt make the rocks smaller he just made them more dense the atoms are still there just more tightly pact together

[@Zympherior]

Rocks being compressed to a smaller size shouldn't be a problem. What should actually bother you is that he does the same for a lake's worth of water in that same scene. Water is incompressible, or at least nigh incompressible.

[@4urNTRtainment]

​@Zympherior He brought the water up like a wave, he didn't just lift or spawn more water

[@thejuggernautofspades9453]

​@4urNTRtainment the lake of water was COMPRESSED to a small ring around him

[@victorgreen6944]

Magic is science and science is magic

[@GriffonSpade]

Only sometimes.

[@CM1_SonicAndOtherStuff]

All i heard was science, science, bending. 😂

[@tamertamertamer4874]

I don’t care what the writers say it’s still magic. No you aren’t attacking with "Magic" but you’re manipulating the elements with magic

[@TheBreadLord_]

earthbending is really cool, and unrealistic

[@why1811]

@25kukurespecially earthbending

[@Zidan8248]

​@@why1811why its especially earthbending?

[@mchvz_]

​​@@Zidan8248because its especially unrealistic

[@Matthew-Martinsson]

That's why bendearthing is really uncool, and realistic

[@mchvz_]

Every bearthending is realistic

[@TheBroly2020]

One man's magic is another man's engineering

[@dracodarkheartgaming2357]

Magic doesn't exist in Avatar. People use Magic to manipulate Earth, Water, Fire and Air.

[@NanobanaKinako]

This is why firebenders can create fire anywhere since light particles are literally everywhere, they can also do it at night thanks to the light reflected by the moon. Also I wonder if Lunar Eclipse is also a weakness since this is Earth covering the sun preventing use of firebending at night since the moon is rendered useless at this point.

[@MyopicPowerhouse]

sure, that would make sense given that the show says that the sun is the source of firebending, and firebenders can't use thier firebending during an eclipse. But it's still magic, as scientifically, you need fuel to create fire, and photons are not fuel.

[@Cessar-]

Imo,bending is like 70% spiritual & 30% scientific

[@GriffonSpade]

Science is a method of learning.

[@MyopicPowerhouse]

Imo bending is like, 60% magic, 20% spiritual, 20% martial arts, and 100% awesome

[@petermichaelmoore4908]

“It’s not magic, it’s something that’s earned” Ah so warlocks. “It’s something that’s learned” Ah, so wizards

[@Cuban20]

It is magic, simply it's been normalized to the point of being considered a science. Or a martial art. But the Lion Turtles used magic to transfer these powers into humans. And the spirits restored air bending to the world in Korra. So it is a supernatural gift ie *Magic* Edit Also, with respect to the creators, they're kind of confused. Sorcery appears all over Avatar. And sometimes even Benders can use magic infused Bending. Like Tarlok whenever he cleansed a dark spirit

[@philipmorris438]

Yeah but in Korra the "magic/bending" system goes somewhat crazy. The levels of power lose a little bit of grounding, like for ex. Lightning bending seems Too easy in Korra, metal aswell

[@GriffonSpade]

Science is a method of learning. A martial art is a skill related to fighting or warfare. The former can be applied to magic and the latter can qualify the use of magic as one.

[@AlmalekeLoL]

Narratively it's magic. But when the creators emphasize that it isn't it is just a way to communicate to the audience that bending is supposed to be grounded and naturalistic.

[@inesatt1313]

They use chi the energy around them and channel them in the elements The Last Lion Turtle told Aang the truth behind bending before he bestowed him the gift of energy bending

[@Lucci136]

So... Magic.

[@MyopicPowerhouse]

So... Magic.

[@TeumeMyHeart]

After all these years I never really wondered if it was magic or not😭

[@DulceneiaMinaj]

Well, in-universe, they can call their magic whatever they want. The best example I can give as a parallel to this whole issue of nomenclature is The Walking Dead calling their Zombies "walkers" or "lurkers". In their world, that's their term equivalent to what we have in ours. Bending is magical; it's supernatural in origin. It also comes from a place of spirituality, and that's equally magical. Edit: I mean, what is a firebender if not a Pyromancer?

[@theformidablefrog1967]

Fire benders are the only benders tht can summon their element purely from chi

[@quirkyblackenby]

Has the creator not watched other fantasy series? There’s all types of magic. I grew up watching witch shows and the main premise was that they had to learn magic even if they were born with it.

[@dwightnorton3398]

Nice explanation

[@kaizokumugiwara2724]

Just like starting wars, all I hear is space magic.

[@xiggles]

Theres a difference between what is in-universe considered magic or not and what reads as magic (or superpowers by extension) to a viewer. You can go into the nuances if you want, but if you're analyzing how Avatar handles its supernatural elements from a writing perspective, you can really only compare it to other fictional magic systems. So, effectively, its magic lol

[@thomasquinn5694]

Having elemental powers is magic

[@SergeiSugaroverdoseShuykov]

"It's not magic because i said so"

[@unidentifiedimmigrant]

For water bending, we already had the tech for that decades ago. It is used in pharmaceutical industry, when we want to make mollercule stable and smaller, we use soundwaves to move effluents around and attach to other things. It floats mid air, and kinda cool if you ask me.

[@DjayT.]

That limitation makes it ironically more brilliant and forces creativity/innovative usage We see that throughout the series with its mixed martial art choreography fights and problem solving through bending Peak concept

[@GriffonSpade]

Magic always has rules, implied or explicit. (Otherwise it's called "chaos" or "omnipotence") They might be left deliberately vague, or are hidden behind lower-level rules, but they're there. Having most of the rules codified, at least at the bottom level, does make them much more narratively accessible for protagonists and grounded antagonists.

[@ibtgb2]

It’s not magic guys, it’s just a supernatural force that doesn’t exist being wielded by fictional characters in a fictional world where this non existent force exists. You know, exactly like stories involving magic with literally no differences but still, it’s not though.

[@madelinegarber7860]

This is why I like bending so much. It still has very grounded rules despite technically being a magic system as others are saying.

[@Sokka0nCactusJuice100]

Those benders are lucky, I cant even bend!

[@Pinkcat-tx8io]

I love how most good anime’s have powers or some type of magic in them

[@bugzunderzabed]

Its so well explained and it makes sense but never exists 😭

[@harasen_haras5]

Moving elements around the way that benders do is as magical as the force in Star Wars. It has its limitations that make it logical, but it's still something you wouldn't be able to have any human body do realistically.

[@skridalthcrevasse2388]

Notice how the narrative refrains from discussing fire bending in correlation to the principle of conservation of matter because, technically, fire-bending acts in most scenes on the show are technically magic; similarly, the lightning-bending depictions on the show are technically magic as they deviate from the aforestated principle.

[@GriffonSpade]

Moving earth, water, and air by willpower and "chi" is also magic, with or without dancing.

[@raknaroo2]

Saying that "they use chi to manipulate the elements" is the same as saying that they use mana or chakra or ki or whatever mystical energy inside oneself to do stuff... it is magic dude no matter how you put it 😂

[@domoredujordan]

Aang be bending that boulder on his back before he could fully earthbend, otherwise he straight shouldering like 1000 lbs

[@tummytub1161]

The very original meaning of magic is knowledge about the "unknown". Not knowing how they came up with such an amazing story and show makes the Avatar Universe magical!

[@josephthomas8714]

ATLA 😒: conservation of energy ATLA 😊: conservation of matter ATLA 😟: E=mc^2

[@The_demondestroyer]

I just finished both seasons it's great 🥺❤️‍🔥

[@Gabriel-rj9gn]

The spirits have elements of magic mixed in with them, like water from the spirit oasis, capable of healing virtually any wound

[@Spooknight]

Magic can be learned and earned

[@Ornitholestes1]

just because SOME physical laws are obeyed, that doesn't mean it isn't magic...just a harder magic system than something like Harry Potter's or Tolkien's systems.

[@pranayacreative]

Bryan went from looking like first avatar to roku

[@GameUpOG]

This went out the door when the giant turtle started gifting power

[@13579zod]

I think it’s more interesting that characters distinguish between magic and bending. This would suggest that magic may exist in the Avatar universe. Even if it’s just misdirection and illusion.

[@_martian101]

But chi is basically sorcery 😂 it's an energy that gained from the spirit of it's user, which literary destroy the law of thermodynamics

[@bnfkiuse2645]

So how do fire benders just make fire out of nowhere?

[@Emerald_Forge]

Oxygen is highly combust able, they could just compress the air very fast and hard to create a spark

[@FazDubz]

Let's make this clear, bending is Magic, but it's spiritual magic according to the ATLA world. In the sense, it's because of the spirits, it follows science a lot, but it's only considered magic because it's impossible in real life... I think at least 😳 You can argue with me I'm not evem sure if I'm right tbh, magic is kind of hard to differentiate from bending literal elements.

[@ColoringSnake]

Moving things around miraculously is still magic.

[@jayxx_slayer9456]

Crazy how things got so magical in Korra

[@necrowmancerowo]

It’s never spelled out, but you can derive that Chi is a type of life energy that’s created in the body of living things in the Avatar universe, almost similar to body heat. Through focusing ones will and making strong motions, those with Bending can cause telepathic forces that affect the flow and motion of their element. Chi is rapidly replenished in the body, so a Bender won’t run out, but bending also kind of links the user’s body to the elements their manipulating, making intense feats physically strenuous. Additionally, the types motions that make up the martial art of Bending are the most effective or efficient for manipulating their respective element. Its still a “magic system” in terms of writing lingo, but it definitely does a lot to have a distinct character, and much care was taken to have the rules of the system not be haphazardly broken within the show.