How does Epic compare to 15mm Essex?

[@Blaxkleric]

Twenty seconds in and Dom produces a huge box of epic pike & shotte with a large grin on his face which would put the cheekiest of schoolboys to shame!! Love it!!! LOL!!!

[@BootsontheTable]

;)

[@davidbrown4849]

Thanks for the demonstration. Mixing figs of quite different sizes, generally, can be done by simply putting a bit of extra cardboard or similar under the smaller ones when you glue them onto the element base, to trick the eye into seeing them all as much the same height. Or other fudges like using small figs with raised swords and spears above their heads and the larger figs with arms by their sides - again to trick the eye. I have for one project used both the above tricks and for a few really large figs gouged out a hole in the MDF unit base to sink the tall figs into the ground a bit. As others have said, people are not all the same height or bulk so your figs can be too.

[@BootsontheTable]

yes indeed - for this i just glued them to the base but even then i think they fitted OK within normal variations of horse and person sizes

[@Letsstarthobbying]

Looks to me like they're very close in size. The metal ones just seem to be thicker which could just be from them being older minis and being metal...

[@BootsontheTable]

I think that’s a fair comment

[@sagebrother]

Interesting. Truth is horses like humans come in all shapes and sizes. I’m sure an Arabian horse is much smaller than a draught . I’m experimenting with mixing Peter Pig foot ECW with my Epics. Thanks and keep the videos coming.

[@BootsontheTable]

indeed true but also you dont want ponies to look bigger than horses. Peter Pig work well

[@leonleese4919]

The Essex figure is sitting upright in the saddle, the horse has a thicker stand. The warlord figure is leaning forwards and is sitting into the saddle, the base is much thinner. Painted will narrow the difference down with a thicker base.

[@BootsontheTable]

yes you can do things to alter the heights, i just wanted to see how they looked simply glued together

[@stephenhood2627]

Thanks for the comparison, very useful!👍

[@BootsontheTable]

you are welcome i am pleased it was helpful

[@loupiscanis9449]

Thank you , Dom . They fit fine . IMO . 🐺 Loupis Canis .

[@BootsontheTable]

cheers mate i think so

[@loupiscanis9449]

@@BootsontheTable Boomer power !! 😉 🐺 Loupis Canis .

[@Chabalakra]

Peter Pig 15mm figures are on the smaller end of the 15mm ranges and may be worth a look

[@BootsontheTable]

yeah seems so, Steel Fist are perfect too

[@welshwargamer2066]

Hardly noticeable great video. I also found that “steel fist miniatures” are near the same scale as epic as well

[@BootsontheTable]

agreed mate Steel Fist are very very close

[@paulbenson9015]

Nice one Dom, very useful. As mentioned I understand Peter Pig are the closest in size to Epic👍

[@BootsontheTable]

Cool, thanks. Steel Fist are also perfect

[@andrewcullen883]

These videos have been great and getting me interested in the period, thanks! Do you have any suggested reading?

[@BootsontheTable]

I am very pleased thank you. The Osprey series on the 30 years war are very good, but in all honestly the best for understanding the ins and outs of the 30 years war is the normal Warlord Games supplement for the period - The Devil's Playground - you can pick up a pdf copy for £10. Another more detailed book is The Thirty Years' War 1618-1648: 29 (Essential Histories) Paperback by Richard Bonney

[@andrewcullen883]

@@BootsontheTable that’s great, thanks very much I will give those a go. Thanks again for the channel and the videos. Giving me lots of inspiration and interest in historical.

[@ianpatterson123]

Those Essex figures look as if they will work scale seems very similar,I’ll have to have a look for Croats. For extra cuirassiers I used steel fist miniatures which were excellent figures in detail and scale really well to Warlord Epic.

[@BootsontheTable]

Yes they do

[@basicminiaturepainting]

Very cool review Dom

[@BootsontheTable]

cheers mate

[@jvcpaints]

I could only pick out 2 of the 4 on the first go around of the epic vs. the 15mm. Have to hand it to Warlord for inventing their own scale. I don't think crossover would be a problem at all. Even Warlord's 28 mm figures are different sizes in different time periods. Some of their Napoleonics are Andre the Giant sized compared to some of their Ancients.

[@BootsontheTable]

yep scale creep is a thing which is why i thought older 15mm would work as they are not like the 18mm modern 15s are!

[@NicGamz]

Great video and very good work on the cossacks and cuirassiers. First off I wonder what kind of lovely musket you have there behind you on the wall? I have to look into Essex figures, for my taste they might be just little to big, but not much. At the gaming table I dont think anyone will see the difference. Its just me that are so OCD picky. 😉 Warlord Games need to add more to their new P&S Epic Battle range, I agree that their cavalry box could been better. For example only cavalry in it. Then the rest in separate boxes. My wishlist on what Warlord Games should add to their P&S Epic Battle ( Maby I should Email it to Warlord Games? 😀) : * Cuirassiers Box. Cuirassiers only in the box. * Eastern/Balkan Units. Croat Cavalry, Hungarians, Cossacks, Polish and the Ottomans. * Finnish hakkapeliitta cavalry box. ( Swedish Light Cavalry with Sabers) * Light Cavalry with no armour ( only hats, basic clothes & cape) Box. * Skirmish box. Single muskeeters only box. Like the Commanded shot figuers on the cavalry sprue. * Artillery box. All kinds of artillery and engineers. * Camp & fortifications. Tents, camp equipment, gabions, Stacked crates & barrles etc... * Casualty Markers - single small infantry dead on ground ( Not the markers with a number on it) To add our own realistic battlefield diorama/gaming table. * Baggage Wagon/train * Storming Party With Petard Great video, thank you for show the different sizes with the Essex Miniatures. Keep on painting. Cheers 😀👍

[@BootsontheTable]

its a replica Brown Bess mate! I couldnt disagree with you wishlist. Lets hope its selling well so they bring some of these soon

[@andydrb9673]

Interesting review Dom. Essex have a huge Renaissance range. While the style of the figures may not be to everyone's taste they paint up very well and look really good on the table. There's lots of other manufacturers excellent metals around for this period as well so price aside, the Warlord just don't do it for me. The musketeers would never be deployed like that and the cavalry aren't all that. But if it gets people interested in a fascinating period then that's a good thing.

[@BootsontheTable]

yeah the ranked musketeers are pretty daft although easy to paint, but the cavalry are pretty rubbish I agree

[@leont66wargaming31]

Great video mate. Nice comparison

[@BootsontheTable]

cheers buddy

[@historyboy32]

really useful video, thanks!

[@BootsontheTable]

i hope it helps people

[@Noctis1117]

Dunno if you have seen but epic pike and shotte are releasing a purely currier unit

[@BootsontheTable]

@Noctis1117 yeah I did see although they are the same sculpts which is a shame. But useful anyways

[@philRminiatures]

Inteesting comparison, I do like Essex range, since many years...

[@BootsontheTable]

they are the classic 15mm range for me

[@haroldhardrada7449]

Personally, I am not sure about the Essex - and I have a lot of 15mm Essex ancients and medievals. They just seem too bulky to me. From what I understand the most compatible 15mm ECW ranges are Peter Pig and Steel Fist. The pictures of the Steel Fist cuirassier look really nice, although I don't have any yet. In the USA Khurasan also makes ECW/TYW but their figures are large 18mm. On the other hand they make other ranges consisting of smaller 15mm which are more compatible - their late 16th century and their late 17th century ranges. The Late 16th have figures that could probably be used for early TYW. The two most useful categories in their Late 17th century range are the Poles and the miltia. If the normal Polish troops aren't needed (winged hussars, etc) the light cavalry might prove useful in the TYW. They separate packs of eastern LC armed with lance, carbine, and bow.

[@BootsontheTable]

they are definitely bulkyer for sure. I can confirm Steel Fist are perfect (video coming) but they only do ECW as yet so I cant get those cossacks, borderers and other 30 YW stuff i wanted. Looks the same with Peter Pig sadly

[@vonketteringham]

Yet more temptation! 😣

[@BootsontheTable]

always VK

[@shring7]

I agree Dom they look alot better interspersed with each other. Essex may be aged however they are great old figures. Many of my ancients armies are essex 15mm.

[@BootsontheTable]

yeah i think the bulk of my vaste 15mm ancients are Essex too - classic figures

[@NSYresearch]

As the Warlord Curassier figures are fewer in number, mixing them in with the Essex figures should be OK

[@BootsontheTable]

agreed mate

[@wargameshobby]

I think they look okay. As you say, you are a long way from the figures once they are on the table, and if you have to look carefully, then they are obviously fine. 👍

[@BootsontheTable]

3 foot rule

[@paulspaintshed3511]

Interesting mate. Although I'd be more inclined to just stick with 15mm metal minis and kick the epic stuff into touch.

[@haroldhardrada7449]

The pike & shot is my least favorite epic box. One problem is they crammed too many figures into a strip. While 10 figures might work for ACW or Napoleonics, its too tight for ECW and TYW, especially with all, the extra gear they are carrying. Besides not looking right, it makes it impossible to cut them up into smaller groupings.

[@paulspaintshed3511]

@haroldhardrada7449 I really tried to like the whole concept of epic, but for me it's a step back in miniature design. There are so many good 15mm ranges out there with both good detail and a real sense of movement sculpted onto the minis. This is even true of some 10mm ranges. Epic gives me a feeling of having stepped back into the 1990s rather than moving forward in 2023. That said it's good to know that a 15mm metal army and an epic army fighting it out on the same table won't look out of place.

[@BootsontheTable]

yeah but its a cheap and easy way to get an army on the table and while i agree 15mm metal is better it will set you back a lot more

[@BootsontheTable]

i like the pike, they work well but the cavalry are crap and the musketeers lined up are too closely ranked but it will work for a game

[@paulspaintshed3511]

@BootsontheTable like all warlord products I like the idea of making it an easy one stop shop for getting into the hobby or a new period. However, like all things it's very subjective you either like them or you don't. As for price that all depends on your unit size for Pike and Shotte I wouldn't have my units as big as the epic ones so the cost would probably be roughly the same. Although a different period I saw the epic Napoleonics at Partizan lined up for a game and it looked super static and more like board game pieces. Like I say I've tried to be more positive about epic but I guess in the end its just not for me.

[@AdamPriestleyWargaming]

I'm surprised that that was more cavalry in the Thirty Years War compared to th ECW.

[@BootsontheTable]

yeah if you look at orders of battle its pretty clear

[@AdamPriestleyWargaming]

@@BootsontheTable Fascinating. Thank you.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

In the earlier to middle years of the TYW the typical ratio of foot to horse was 2:1. By the 1640s 1:1 was not at all unusual. Also in the earlier years there were very few dragoons, often just a few companies in the entire army; by the late 1630s every army had multiple regiments doing a lot of the dog’s work of campaigning.

[@AdamPriestleyWargaming]

@sirrathersplendid4825 That is really interesting. I wonder why that was? Was it for mobility of the army whilst campaigning (gathering food, scouting, raiding etc)? Or just on the battlefield?

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

@@AdamPriestleyWargaming - Germany is a big place, so cavalry is a better way to get around quickly. With the land being increasingly impoverished by war, the best way to keep troops fed was to move them quickly and live from raiding and extracting forced ‘contributions’. On the battlefield a general fought with what he had which was rarely optimal - hence you have battles in the 1640s with a 1:1 ratio.

[@davidsykes2721]

😀 Long time ago my 20mm plastic ACW did battle 15mm metal using Johnny Reb , not brilliant but not too bad

[@BootsontheTable]

its whatever you are happy with, your figures your choice!

[@chrissouthgate4554]

People are not all the same size! Cuirassiers tend to be larger men & horses so even if they were bigger, not so bad. Note in the ECW there were only 1.5 - 2 Regiments of Cuirassiers; Haselrig’s Lobsters & the Kings Body Guard. Everything else, For The Period, was light horse! 30 Years War had lots. Much can be done to conceal size differences by the careful use of base thicknesses, ie tall figures = thinner bases, while shorter figures = thicker bases.

[@BootsontheTable]

completely agree with you. I dont have an issue with mixing manufacturers at all I said the same about cuirassiers

[@AndysEastCoastAdventures]

They should have made them 15mm and they would have sold loads of them to established 15mm gamers. 15mm is already well supported as far as terrain is concerned etc so why would you re-invent the wheel.

[@BootsontheTable]

@@AndysEastCoastAdventures that's assuming they are targeting existing gamers. They have said Epic is targeting those new to historical or at least the period

[@nordicmaelstrom4714]

You should be able to get away with having units of both figure types in an army and it will look fine. Horses are not all the same size even among the same breed and humans are not all the same size either. I find the warlord epic range to be limited in general. Not a fan to be honest.

[@BootsontheTable]

yeah they are a marmite range for sure