How does the bans affect cEDH decks?

[@Nick-ff4is]

Nadu is definitely dead, as a starting point.

[@cedhtv]

Yeah but we kinda skipped that one.

[@SilentGe42]

At least the bans of JLo ad mana crypt don't affect Nadu. 👍🏼

[@harrys2287]

​@@SilentGe42 xd?

[@SilentGe42]

@@harrys2287 obviously a joke, since the first comment was kind of a joke or nonsense 😀

[@BenStanton-f1g]

Nadu is now the ultimate political deck. You've got to be EXTREMELY persuasive to get your opponents to allow you to play him

[@petrseghman4283]

Just A small nitpick - while referring to tiers, don't use "this or this", but use the names - I usually only listen to such analytic videos. Otherwise? Great thoughts, great video! ❤

[@jasonhart543]

This has been maybe my favorite content you guys have made. Really good to hear your broad perspectives, but even more, I enjoyed you two just talking & joking as friends. Sometimes we don't get to see that so much in gameplay. This was cool.

[@cedhtv]

Yeah I often try and keep my videos really short.

[@TheMatgonz]

We need a part 2 with Derebi, yuriko, K'rrik, Rog Trasios, krank /trasios, stella lee, Tameshi, the wise mothman, that cool deck with ALEENA that i see often in this channel, most of the tevesh parners, Dihada, that wizards also that has been on display here the Vadrik and Ral moonson. I dont want to be anoying I heavely dependt on your opinion guys! Love the channel and would not lie i have more than once build a deck just on the performance on this channel, the way you explain the logic is awesome and I usually play this kind of not so often use comanders. Great video by the way just angry because magda got way better 😂 now not fearing the dockside count and less ways to get out of red moon lock.

[@LeroyJENKINZZ-j6l]

Same bro. I value their opinions so highly! They know the game !

[@natalialialia964]

Y'all the Magda discord is REJOICING at these bans. Tbh I think she's the second biggest winner behind Kinnan (and maybe Rog Si). Dockside and crypt were good in the deck but not the crux. The turbo version of magda is definitely dead, but the version that was winning tournaments, the midrange/stax list, is even better. Our blood moons get better, as do our thorns. We don't have to out in 3-4 slots to stop opponents docksides, and we no longer have to worry about feeding dockside.

[@thomasantoine6194]

I figured as much as well, I stray away from the full on stax list nowadays as I'd rather play more interactions like removal for Oppo agent and such or protection for Magda, but I will be adding back more stax into the deck now that dockside is gone !!! Bloodmoon for a start is so back 😁😁😁

[@SilentGe42]

I had games were the opponent etali flipped in to 2 clones and a dockside. This overkill win canmt happen anymore

[@Oz__MTG]

Yeah I agree. Any commander that is 3 cmc or less and has accelerated mechanics or mana producing abilities etc will take over entirely now. Imo Everything else will be too slow to compete against them.

[@takisfilinis6054]

Totally agree. I run a more budget version that also focuses on speed/value (not sure it qualifies as cedh but it is strong af in my group), and I was never gonna buy any of the banned rocks, and I haven't bought a dock yet. I guess in a single ban My version of the deck became the best it could be 😅

[@Oz__MTG]

@@thomasantoine6194 you would definitely have those options for sure. I’d say adding both interaction and stax pieces will keep your Magda deck solid. She’s a winner as well. I run a beastly kinnan with a few stax pieces, but a good majority of the deck is interaction. Dude it feels so good to be able to respond to threats. Some of us just got our commanders to a higher tier during a terrible time! 😆

[@theArcosa]

Thank you for making this video! I love to hear informed analyses on the format.

[@sharkmanyt4431]

Tbh from the games I’ve played against Magda the last couple days, she isn’t kept in check by an opposing dockside and just runs away with games, not to mention the massive devastating stax effects that she can tutor on a whim, like midrange/stax Magda is so good right now

[@thomasantoine6194]

Not surprised with that, I didn't have the time to play my deck lately but I'm pretty sure losing dockside or the other artifacts isn't so bad for Magda as it is for other decks !! I never NEEDED dockside to win anyway, that was just a plus when you got it

[@sharkmanyt4431]

@@thomasantoine6194 yeah Magda definitely got better

[@VkrauRJ]

As I said in another comment. The deck did not get slowed down, but everyone else has. If you runaway with the game, you can win turn 3-4 easily. But if someone has a pinger that kills your dwarfs. There is 0 comeback potential. Dockside made it possible to go from 0 permanents to 2 magda activations and gg. So you were always threatening letal as long as 8-14 treasures were generated. Now that is not there anymore. Any pinger and your game is gone. I've sloted more protection in my deck and removal because if you don't remove bowmasters on etb, your game is gone.

[@sharkmanyt4431]

@@VkrauRJ that is true, but I’d say that magda would rather have dockside gone just because of how crazy it is against her

[@VkrauRJ]

@@sharkmanyt4431 Yeah, its stops people from forcing you to break the treasures or stealing a win before your turn. But if magda at any point becames strong, everyone will start bringing more 1 damage globals or targeted pingers. At my pod, my magda deck is probably the strongest, one of my friends is playing tevesh-kraum and after losing multiple times he just tutors for bowmaster and forces me to tutor for stax or removal.

[@kevintiemann6875]

As a budget Yuriko player…WIN!!! Yuriko FTW

[@Putrefax]

The interesting thing about the meta now is that while dockside is not around to punish the mass artifacts and enchantments, i think stax gets better.

[@thetangelo1375]

Losing Nadu is the biggest loss for the Bant pie

[@MasterDecoy1W]

This list could have benefitted from more granular tiers. The moment you made a distinction between "Dead and gone" and "Needs to pivot/adapt to survive" that should have become another tier. There were other splits that you could have done, but that was the one that stuck out the most to me.

[@ROFLzSALMONz]

Yuriko baybee!

[@dustin89clanton]

Right? Not happy about the bans but at least I have an excuse to focus on Yuriko and Edric for cEDH while reconfiguring a few other decks down towards more casual levels.

[@humm.ngbird]

didnt even have it on their list! so weird. Time to take down some tourneys

[@rhysjonsmusic]

Yep not only is Yuriko untouched by the banlist, a slower game state with less easy mana ramp is the perfect environment for Yuriko to start snowballing

[@timothygerbig875]

Without Dockside, could we see a return of Thrasios and Tymna?

[@cedhtv]

Yes! I actully think we might. But hard to say. They lost only mana crypt and they definatly can play without that card.

[@sharkmanyt4431]

@@timothygerbig875 tymna Thrasios has always been good, just not tier 1 (recently) but this could push it up there

[@JiaqiYu-j7o]

they lose nadu package as well. and the return of tnt is not that simple, the meta turns to be more stax-heavy in nodockside-era. tnt takes creature hates,artifact hates and rol. i think tnt can be a slightly better, but still need some new tools helping it rise@@cedhtv

[@MrZoichi]

Losing Korvold and Etali is definitely a huge negative for me, personally. Etali was so much fun to watch, even when it was going to lose.

[@paoloborello3430]

One of the best video I saw after the bans, maybe you got something wrong but it’s really insightful, great job 😊

[@dasfabelwesen]

Tivit looses to feeding dockside and usually dedicates slots to not die to dockside. So in the end I think the bans have no effect.

[@jsanderson-xd4hi]

JLo ban makes the deck further into the midrange now.

[@natepetras6143]

I think Tivit stayed neutral or got better in the meta. Seems like a lot of people are trying stax again and Tivit is honestly fine with it. Additionally, the jlo into a quick Tivit was never a fantastic play anyways, you are forced to play responsibly with your window now and bunker under stax/value engines now

[@monsteranderdahl3442]

Great breakdown boyz! Im still in the sad phase about not going to be able to justify playing Grenzo anymore, not knowing what od one to play next. Though Dina or Tymna/kamahl is in my mind right now. We will see. Keep up the awesome work! Kärlek, värme och respekt mina vänner.

[@flniggl5016]

the good thing about an early najeela or sisay was, that you were able to hold up free interaction with just a jeweled lotus. That taken away will make it much more difficult to keep rog/syl in check and therefore i think the winrate will drop. So from that perspective i think they both got worse. The good thing about grixis najeela was, that you can bring najeela into play early and be a threat by herself, while you are actually going for adnaus with breach or thoracle win. So the table needed to deal with 2 threats, the clock you put up with a turn 1 najeela and a potential adnaus

[@mrmannimaker8509]

Tevesh/Kraum took a big hit. I decided to switch to Grixis pirates

[@marcellosalis5063]

@Pontus, I totally agree with your take on the bans. As always, my man! 😊 Well, except that better now than never.

[@ducetaker8123]

I know yuriko isn't top teir even after the bans but i was curious to see the takes on it

[@cedhtv]

Oh you will like the resualts.

[@EisCold17D]

Yuriko keeps getting better with the new lands/spells, but also when the meta slows like this, she likes it because she can setup her board state before anyone tries to win on turn 1/2

[@insomn1ak420]

Talion doesn't matter about t1 commander anymore......... It's just a 4 mana Rhystic on a creature body in the zone

[@iPhoneeditor]

Sefris seems interesting to me now. You can run the artifact lands and make it a mox opal deck as a replacement to mana crypt for various loops such as displacer kitten and teferi, can win with infinite dungeon triggers, blind obedience, and reanimator strategies. Most of its engines and mana fed dockside and it was a bit slower at execiting wins, but with the format slowing down a little andbnot having to worry about the dockside count I could see it doing better.

[@leomanach4735]

I don't think keeping the "cast Tivit then Sieve and win" plan as a first thing you do is the way to go. Putting in rituals helps with exactly that. Tivit has between 3 and 4 ways to win, depending on the list. To my understanding as a Tivit player, now I want to secure early draw engines, as many as I can, a Smothering Tithe too, and grind until I can win, be it with sieve or with another thing

[@BuleGamer96]

RIP Dargo. We will miss him.

[@renato_n.n]

Sisay at "NO EFFECT" is copium.

[@jamesk3612]

Any deck with green is pretty happy

[@Kahlua_Lua]

it definitely got worse

[@Emzy2217]

@@jamesk3612I’m unsure about that. Losing dockside definitely hurts the deck considering that was one of its ways to easily assemble the Sisay chain.

[@xenocross6597]

She is objectively worse but she still balls

[@abductedbrain4506]

Dockside was a really powerful tool, there were many ways to bring it from the deck..and after that, blink it, reanimate it, return it to hand..everything hahaha

[@booyaimnotfirst]

Any ideas how Slicer works in this meta? I know it took a hit but still might be fast enough?

[@cedhtv]

He should still work. If the meta slowes down Slicer should have more time to kill people.

[@Meltedshadow940]

I have a friend who plays Blue Farm, and he has found that the deck is fine post ban. Losing J-lo, crypt and DS sucks but it’s not the end of the world. It’s unchanged for the most part, it’s a bit slower but he’s trying some more midrange strats.

[@jcjackson9367]

I was waiting for this video from someone and I appreciate it. And while I love it, yall talk slow lol. I had yall at 1.75 speed and could keep up like normal conversation.

[@cedhtv]

We are swedish.

[@jcjackson9367]

@cedhtv lol I'm aware. Commented and conversated with you on many video comments. Just thought it funny to mention.

[@frankmagyar5532]

I watch all videos at 2x but would never blame anyone for talking slow, lol

[@deeds2r]

Oh man, this video needs time stamps. 😅 thank you, love you ❤

[@Ragnasorcerer]

When I saw the title I remembered how Yuriko loved these bans

[@matteomoret1513]

Hi All, I'm asking with no malice; but why in a non sanctioned format there are bans in first place? I can't get it

[@cedhtv]

Ask casuapl players that. ALl bans are for casual EDH.

[@nonlinear3084]

Darm Mons, I was just thinking "He should do a video with Pontus." You know what the people want

[@SylveonSimp]

the dargo master

[@jean-paulbascelli1078]

My prediction is Kinnan will return as King.

[@aflyingstarly5535]

Kinnan is vibing during this banlist.

[@xenocross6597]

None of these bans affect Kinnan that much, yeah

[@DemonOfMyMind]

Was hoping to see Derevi. Ironically I think Derevi got worse because she lost Nadu... lol. The only one that cared about Nadu.

[@alexrowson-brown6568]

@@DemonOfMyMind yeah but nadu was legal all of 3 months so it’s really no change….. she got better than just went back to where she was before Crypt and jlo bans don’t really hurt her Not being able to emiel loop with a dockside clone is a bit eh but even then derevi is the combo piece anyway just run more things that find cradle and tap draw outlets and it’ll be fine else just go heavy midrange value and control the game

[@adam6727]

I didn’t even get around to adding nadu to my Derevi deck lol Derevi is just fine.

[@adam6727]

Edric is still not in the meta due to bowmasters.

[@darkseeker1112]

Kenrith was VERY interested in Nadu too

[@alexrowson-brown6568]

@@adam6727 and he gives your opponents cards in general which is a bad idea

[@FranciscoFerreira-oq6em]

Inalla loses a lot with the dockside ban. We had 2 A+B where A was Dockside. one was with ruthless technomancer and the other was with Aether Channeler.

[@timothygerbig875]

Magda may not have been hit as bad as it seems. She's still a cheap Commander, who requires other cheap creatures, and ramps on her own. Plus, pulling 3 cards opens slots for 3 more stax pieces. I think Magda could thrive in a slower format with a little more stax, because she operates so well under those effects. Ideally, she'd want a Tangle Wire in effect at all times.

[@RamzaBeoulvez]

This video is so fun I love it

[@Cedhplayer]

So Pontus, what deck will you be moving on too? I know I personally love your play style, cause it matches my own. I’m kinda lost on where to go now. Tymna Dargo was my jam as well.. I’d love your insight, is Kark Tymna the move? lol

[@sPontus]

At the moment I'm still trying to revive tymna dargo and I think it'll be fine for like lgs/casual cedh play But my time not conforming for tournaments are probably over so it'll most likely be rogsi

[@abductedbrain4506]

In. Sisay, what do u think of swapping dockside and crypt for a Thassa and Demonic Consul? It totally could give that lost explosive start to Sisay. I carry many tutors and the ones that were used for dockside, apply for Tassa..wdut? Best vibes for the channel. RIP DS

[@cedhtv]

Currently I swaped Mana Crypt and dockside for Collector Ouphe a mana dork. Staying with what sisay is doing but now that we don't actully need mass artifacts we can go anti artifacts more.

[@abductedbrain4506]

@@cedhtv yes I get what u are saying, thx for the response bro! 👌🏻

[@phongsanc4102]

Nearly all decks loss crypt and lotus, none red moving up for sure, some dockside dependent may move down. All to the new more balance position in cEDH 2.0. Exciting!

[@MOSTLYxTOAST]

@13:50 what did he say is "my favorite land when it works and thats _____" I listened to this clip like 20 times and I cant for the life figure out what land he's talking about. I don't know any land that sounds anything like what he said, I tried looking for lands that "enter tapped and tap for 2 mana next turn" and I've got nothing. It sounds like he's saying Peak's Borgy? I'm at a complete loss but I have no idea what card he's talking about and I really want to know what it is.

[@sPontus]

peat bog very few decks want it. I love when they do (it's a whole cycle)

[@MOSTLYxTOAST]

@@sPontus THANK YOU! Sorry for not understanding, I think the more I tried to rewind and listen again the more confused I got about what I was hearing. How do you feel about Crystal Vein? I don’t love that it’s colorless but the fact that you get to choose when to pop it makes me want to try it over City of Traitors? I’m surprised I’ve never seen anyone talk about this card

[@sPontus]

@@MOSTLYxTOAST np Colorless is a huge cost and only making 2 once is a lot worse than twice like traitors. It's not bad but unless in lower colours or a deck that motivates it in some way usually not really worth

[@jasonwhisnant5457]

Well, up next, a tier-list of what the best decks are after bannings!

[@voidprism_studios666]

the thing about winter orb vs lands thing is that sinces decks dont have that mana crypt/lotus acceleration anymore people may need to run more lands now lol

[@sharkmanyt4431]

How is jeweled lotus bad in blue farm, I mean you have 2 good draw engines in the command zone might as well use them

[@alexrowson-brown6568]

Jlo was more getting tymna value, your commander engines are less viable than they were before ignoring the 99 as kraum doesn’t come down as quick, tymna is fine but won’t be t1 as much anymore But the 99 is fine for the most part

[@tellable9425]

Pontus explained in the video. The argument is, casting either partner is what you do when the game is going poorly. Including cards for when you're on plan C, they argue is a waste of a valuable slot.

[@sharkmanyt4431]

@@tellable9425 I don’t agree though, turn 1 jeweled lotus and some other rock into Kraum has won me so many games, not using your commanders in blue farm is plain stupid

[@cheynewellington]

I would have determined what was still the best commander and then used that as a reference point for the other commander on whether they got better or worse

[@alexrowson-brown6568]

I think on nix is dead, you need it t1/2 to get value, it loses a lot of card advantage and also dockside enabled it to continue popping off as I’d tutor it to top a lot just to continue doing some manual storm burn or loop with nightmare/cloud stone as there were a lot of outlets we ran that enabled great consistency to just win there

[@Slade450]

I’d like to make an addition to “Got Better” with Ukkima Food Chain

[@cedhtv]

Yeah I will agree to that.

[@genbu2870]

Rona disciple of Gix should still be Solid with its combos The crypt loss is Bad, but it should rum smooth

[@taylorchamplin379]

There is a knock on effect that slows the game down even more. Often when wins are turn 1,2 or sometimes 3 players have been incentivized to tap out to develop their board. This means many games were won with interaction in hand just no mana to use it. With most games not having their first win attempt until turn 3 or later I think players will be more likely to have the open mama as you can afford to hold up mama as the game goes later. I’d argue the first win gets stopped significantly more often which is a big hit to turbo where they often have something like unprotected adnaus. Also there is more time for stax to come into play which is say adds more turns. So theoretical one turn loss will likely snowball into much longer games

[@hellNo116]

Here I am with one hell of a question. Since the game became slower did braids become a better mono black commander than krrik?

[@fruhlingsbilder]

CEDH rules committee isn’t gonna happen right? It would need someone with a big following to step up and for now no one seems to want to do it.

[@cedhtv]

I think Ian, Lua, Ken and Higher are onto something. They made a post on twitter. Or Ken made on for the group. So we will see.

[@VkrauRJ]

@@cedhtv Let's hope 🙌

[@kuroshinko427]

Tymna Thrasios doesn't care that much. Losing Mana Crypt is meh for the deck.

[@Oz__MTG]

@@kuroshinko427 some of our decks didn’t use jeweled lotus or crypt, I had a crypt in mine but I am fine taking it out. It doesn’t actually slow it down which is great.

[@khub5660]

​@Oz__MTG I don't even run Sol Ring in my list because of Stony Silence, Collector Ouphe, and Null Rod. The only artifact I play is The One Ring. Midrange T&T definitely won here

[@rd1012]

How about K'rrik??

[@cedhtv]

Ah yes we kinda forgot. Definatly weaker or dead. Probobly just weaker.

[@thomasantoine6194]

Sadly that.... time to break the deck and build something else😂😂😭

[@lexas1234]

@@cedhtv Totally a noob here. Was looking at K'rrik for my first commander deck. What makes it "dead"/weaker? The ban of some specific card(s)? Likely making a deck at about 50-80 dollar, so it's not competitive but still quite decent (according to youtube).

[@NotAWhaleAtAll]

​​@@lexas1234 They're talking specifically about cEDH, not just commander In cEDH, the main way to determine the 'strength' of a deck is to look at how consistently can it perform well, using a cedh tournament setting is usually considered a good metric A 'dead deck' or 'not a real deck' are often used to refer to decks that do not perform consistently or appear on tournaments at all It is still possible to win with them, but that is true for virtually any deck/commander and winning 5-10% of the games in a competitive 4-player format is not the most exciting thing for most players

[@jancarloaquino4248]

⁠@@lexas1234this is cedh list,the ban didn’t really affect casual k’rrik

[@oldbordergeek]

ah been waiting for this show! hope 3 kolor generals get some more shine?

[@CaramelYoutube-k8m]

This is all I've wanted

[@bigscrub1875]

I've been looking for this too!

[@diegorezi5760]

Me not, loved mana crypt

[@cowsticker9618]

Looks like such a homogenous format, deck composition wise.

[@NerXii7]

What about Raffine ? Some tierlists are putting it pretty high up

[@insomn1ak420]

Rograkh Tormod still slept on 🎉

[@AdmiralVortex]

One of Talion's wincons is Bloodchief Ascension, the deck ABSOLUTELY got better

[@supremecourt4131]

So which deck is better in your oppinion? Kinnan vs RogSi

[@cedhtv]

According to my data they were equal. But now hard to say.

[@noobtuber10]

Think anje falkenwrath is playable again?

[@cedhtv]

I have heard she really neede mana crypt and jeweled lotus.

[@chrispapayannes8545]

No Rog-Thras mention? I've been tech'ing on the deck for a while since before the ban, and was seriously concerned when the announcement was made. After taking some time to acclimate and think with a clear head, there are some really strong instant speed combo's that can be woven into its pre-ban core. At the same time, there's Name Goblin. Not the best, but it's a consideration to replace Dockside in Cloudstone loops. Been Goldfish'ing it over the last couple days, and it's still really fast.

[@ScoopPhase]

Krark gets to actually have a turn or 2. Sakashima has been harder to set up, but we are ROCKING krarkashima for the next month.

[@theycallmelittletoe]

I have been looking for a reason to re build First Sliver Food Chain, this ban announcement will most likely hurt my main deck, Rog Tevesh.

[@fruhlingsbilder]

I think the "no reason to play this" argument is really dumb when before there was "no reason" to play anything that isn’t Blue Farm. A lot of people play cEDH as a form for self expression. Now that more expensive commanders are almost impossible to cast that aspect just got removed from the game.

[@ecclesiaandune687]

any thoughts on Ellivere? It's not a good deck (stax and combat AND selesnya in cedh lul) but i do love it Interested to see your thoughts on it - or how 'stax packages' will change in general with these bans, less focus on anti etb and anti artifact?

[@mk30b25]

Ellivere will no longer fear doc count.

[@cedhtv]

NO!

[@FirstLast-fb4ze]

What do you think about Narset Enlightened Master?

[@jacobkinnan4078]

What’s your opinion on Grolnok the Omnivore?

[@nitrodavid]

What is your opinion on the Esika stacks cEDH decks (the creature side with low CMC legendries). The jeweled lotus is huge as it gives you commander turn 1 and then 3 mana available turn 2 putting you into the mid game very fast. but apart from the jeweled lotus there are no huge advantages of dockside/crypt, they are almost optional

[@Hordrasea]

I wanna know about Stella Lee , is heavy played on my play group!

[@oshinoedan5666]

it helps my thalia and the gitrog monster

[@pygar256]

I think Magda will still do surprisingly well- Playing Magda is more about treasure tokens than about having lots of mana...and dockside was not the only way for Magda to get the treasure-engine going. I feel like w/ my experience playing Magda over this last summer, the deck should be able to do what it has been doing just fine...just a little slower- and the big question to me now is how much slower does everybody else have to play? Also from experience w/ Magda, having other players suddenly play dockside on their turn would put me in an awkward position of wanting to sac my treasure tokens so they would get less effect from their dockside etb...also in playing this last summer I only got to cast my own dockside in a game once, lol. For Magda, everybody else losing access to dockside is actually a net win. I'm probably going to replace the 3 cards w/ Mind Stone, Bucknard's Everful Purse, and Jeska's Will or a utility land card...all cards that have been in the list at some point or another already and I think I'll be good to go...

[@kuroshinko427]

What's your rating for Tymna Tana Pod?

[@cedhtv]

Might actully have gotten better. If the game goes slower then this might be better for the commander.

[@joshuadickerson9176]

Ob Nixilis definitely took a hit, I do believe you can play a turn behind though and it be okay? You play a lot of artifacts still, you can play all the fast mana spells like seething song, cabal ritual, etc. It’s definitely not as good but I think it’s fine for fringe play. Yuriko got so much better, as did Kinnan.

[@oldbordergeek]

i was building ob but this is rough

[@joshuadickerson9176]

@@oldbordergeek It is yes, I have played Ob since January and have had a blast, so I’m still trying to make it work. I think it’s not as bad as others have made out, especially since this year, Ob has gotten a LOT of new tools in Bloomburrow and the new horror set.

[@oldbordergeek]

​@@joshuadickerson9176 yea i always think someone in design must have a ob deck because they want him to work 😂 i am not trying to be tier 1 and ob is funny but i want to score some wins 😅

[@matthewalexopoulos268]

I have play ob since he came out. He is exactly 1 turn slower. At a command fest yesterday in 4 games took 2 wins. Still feel he is in a good place

[@diegorezi5760]

I think is time for the community to create its own ban list

[@austinlove2557]

Thoughts on rograkh/thrasios?

[@cedhtv]

Got worse toghter with all temur commanders.

[@SlimiestSlime]

Kenrith evolution witness with lions eye... super easy to pull off

[@Hosoeh]

So Grixis Vial/Thrasios is dead in the water, but Sultai part is better? Is this overall worse or no effect?

[@Snamify]

Birthing Pod is great in this deck!

[@KingSkinny-ww2pl]

RogSi is going to slot in 2 rituals for Crypt and Dockside, and be totally fine, and continue to consistently win turn 2, anything slower, more janky or less reliable needs fast mana to compete with higher tier decks, and has lost some of that, and most struggle to replace it so easily. Higher MV decks need permenant mana sources and can't rely on rituals. This applies at a competitive and casual level, "fun", janky, stompy that already struggled decks are now further behind storm and combo. They banned these cards to create more variance in the meta, in reality it's just made any slower deck less viable, creating a wedge between playable archetypes and pushing everyone on average toward a faster and higher tier plan. The spirit of (casual) commander is supposed to be playing whatever you want to play, quirky ideas and fun, then finding ways of making those ideas work, RC has only reduced options for those players. Meanwhile, Bowmasters exists and is effectively keeping green out of any competitive level of Commander. Cards like this, that prevent a whole colour from being playable, and are replaceable in any deck without a domino effect on your decks design, should be cards we look at for bans, broadening the card pool, not choking it like the recent bans have

[@luiseduardobarrioscalvillo1287]

How about stella lee?

[@cedhtv]

Should have gotten weaker but but not that much weaker.

[@ALL41BJJ]

Thoughts on Lonis, seems better now.

[@howlovely9631]

What do you think about hulk pile decks. Decks like dina, valorz, meren etc.

[@guimartgon]

Surprised chulane was used to rep bant and not derevi.

[@jarredjenkins8054]

R.I.P. Niv Mizzet Miss you lol

[@CokaShimoda]

I want to point out that with clones gone, that is a good thing for Kinnan, cuz now your opponents can't copy your big powerful creatures as often! I think Kinnan gets a lot better with these bans. Something I haven't really heard other people talk about is that because of the bans, Mox Amber decks get a lot better. Decks that used to use Jeweled Lotus get a lot worse. The decks that can effectively use Mox Amber, in my opinion, will rise above the rest. Expensive commanders will go way by the way side.

[@calebhall5927]

I’ve played elsha for a long time. I always played her the same way others have played Tivit in the past. The deck itself leans more midrange or control in my opinion. Where Tivit or elsha in this case is a play you make when there is an opening to win or jam a massive value engine in the late game. Taking away mana crypt, Jlo, and dockside takes away that play pattern of playing her on turns 1-3. I don’t think that was necessarily the play you were trying to make though so it feels a little worse, but I wonder what effect it will ultimately have.

[@mikegiannakopoulos6819]

Inalla had A LOT of dockside combos/loops tbh, this doesn't mean she doesn't become better, just saying she definitely got hit.

[@harvenger0death]

For the Krarkashima players? I think it got weaker, but definitely not dead. The crypt and lotus being gone definitely makes getting out the gate slower, but around turn 3 you're starting the engine off. So, not bad. Dockside was cool, but Tavern Scoundrel and Stormkiln artist have better all around potential.

[@fruhlingsbilder]

From my testing it got a lot worse since we can’t do a lot until we have our "6 mana commander" on the field. You kinda need to play table police now because everything else is just faster.

[@harvenger0death]

@@fruhlingsbilder yeah, it's usually like that until you find an opening to run your loops. To be fair, you don't always need both. Harmonic Prodigy is going to be an mvp for the deck now to get the early game. You got a list that you play?

[@fruhlingsbilder]

@@harvenger0death I have one on Moxfield. I play birgi lightningbolt as a main wincon with breach LED backup. After the bans replaced the banned cards with tectonic hazard counterbalance ( just to try it out) and one more land. Im up to 27 lands now.

[@harvenger0death]

@@fruhlingsbilder ah, I gotcha. I took out LED to run Underworld Breach as just a value engine. More of a Mind's Desire kinda guy lol. Birgi combo is a definite. But I run Heat Shimmer, Molten Duplication, Twin Flame for the Dualcaster Mage line. I replaced the banned cards with a Talisman, and put back in Overmaster. Also added in Emergence Zone

[@fruhlingsbilder]

@@harvenger0death I run the dualcaster + the 3 copy spells and overmaster too. Emergence zone is a really good idea i have to try oout.

[@Snamify]

Oh boy oh boy. My favorite decks Tevesh / Kraum and Korvold are dead. Switch now Inalla.

[@sharkmanyt4431]

@@Snamify tevesh kraum isn’t dead, Korvold is tho

[@djsedam123]

I lost Godo, I feel the pain

[@Joshman116]

Kenrith I believe will just use LED and evolution witness.

[@SilentGe42]

Sisay in no effect is 99,99% wrong. She got a lot worse

[@nevsterk2463]

Pet deck for him

[@Christopher-fr1lh]

A lot of these takes are very heavily biased by the hosts . Which is fine just take them as that.

[@sharkmanyt4431]

@@SilentGe42 sisay isn’t dead, but yeah not tier 1 anymore

[@SilentGe42]

@@sharkmanyt4431 thats what i said: she is in a worse position than before

[@sharkmanyt4431]

@@SilentGe42 oh yeah, way worse

[@Xeph0]

How does Stella Lee feel about this banning

[@guim3419]

Do you think something like gaddock teeg could come back?

[@RodrigoCML7]

Somehow Pontus’s chill energy is just what I needed to face Urza’s death 😢

[@sharkmanyt4431]

@@RodrigoCML7 Urza is so much better now…

[@RodrigoCML7]

@@sharkmanyt4431 I commented before watching and honestly I'm still bummed out as personally dockside didn't really hinder me from winning. Losing the turbo pieces hurts much more as they are also wincon pices

[@sharkmanyt4431]

@@RodrigoCML7 maybe, I’ve never played with Urza, only against it

[@Xeph0]

Ancient tomb + 0 mana rock is the new sauce for 3 cmc commanders

[@ottoloogmanc_h_i_m_e_r_a7456]

What about Elsha?

[@cedhtv]

Should have gotten weaker.

[@dosstheboss4895]

How about Tevesh and Kraum?

[@cedhtv]

got worse. Expensive commanders are a bit harder to get into play now. Lika tymna is 3 CMC while those 2 are at 5 each.

[@Snamify]

@@cedhtv I am a TK player and I tell you it is so dead.

[@nicolafierro1]

super dead :(

[@dosstheboss4895]

@cedhtv Armix and Kraum or Kraum and Francisco are better now? 🙃 I hope so because I planned on playing grixis with partners, so I might have to go with Rograkh Silas, but I just love Kraum too much to not play him in a grixis deck. My dream deck was to make Tevesh and Kraum

[@jamesc.7216]

So what I'm getting is cEDH (insert commander here) got worse = yes. I'm probably on the minority on this but I don't like Thassa's Oracle as the universal win condition. I'd still like to see it banned as well.