How effective are these traditional muzzleloading bullets? | Hawken 50 Yard Penetration Test

[@Dcm193]

I like how now a days bullets are so advanced and people nit pick over small details but back then it was basically “I want to put this big hunk of lead through something “

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Yep!

[@FoulPet]

Pretty sure the 45 acp crowd hasn't changed their point of view.

[@josephmandragoran4262]

Funny thing is. Discreet ballastics is kind of going back to that today.

[@wesleyharding7544]

Like your vids, no unnecessary talk, I can hear and understand you clearly. THANKS! Been into black powder since bout 1965.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Thanks Wesley!

[@waynehajek6346]

I know that it's expensive, but a ballistics gel test with these bullets would be great to see. Great video!

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Thanks Wayne! Saving up for some gel. Hope to do it soon.

[@rafamainka3376]

Żel balistyczny łatwo zrobić samemu i nie jest to drogie. Wystarczy rozpuścić żelatynę spożywczą w korytku i poczekać aż stężeje 🙂

[@kesleycottrell1416]

I'm a PA guy. Muzzleloader's are big in PA. We have a flintlock only season that starts the day after Christmas. When l first started flintlock hunting we had to use patch and ball. They worked but it was much better when we could use bullets. I started using CVA Power Belts solid lead hollow points. Out of my .54 it hammers deer. I keep my shots 50 yards or less really where I hunt 50 is a long shot. I do love the flintlock season. City slickers don't seem to hunt. It's awesome.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Glad you are enjoying the flintlock season in PA! It's a wonderful thing.

[@kesleycottrell1416]

Flintlock hunting is unusual l guess. I think PA is the only one to do it. It's fun, there is guys that wears buckskins and coonskin hats. The mountain man festival is a bunch of fun. If you haven't done it come to PA and join the fun. The season lasts over a month.

[@65stang98]

@@kesleycottrell1416 a lot of people do it in ohio, wv, kentucky, tn as well. Ours in ohio start 4-7. Gonna be takin out the .50 cal hawken.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Great video, Ethan. Looks to me like the good ole fashioned round ball is tough to beat!

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Hard to argue with the roundball!

[@justpassinthrough7]

Penetration isn't everything, difference between a needle and a hammer, that great plains 385gr is a sledgehammer.

[@idahoron]

The RB was across the top. It wasn't plowing through the center. It skipped along the top.

[@Jebusisblatantidolatry]

​@justpassinthrough7 yiu think that's a sledge?? Try my .45 485 gr slug!!!

[@blackpowdermaniacshooter]

I love these type of tests, they are FUN to do...!! Thanks Ethan for sharing...

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Thanks for watching!

[@danielmastin3606]

I have shot the T/C Maxi Hunter for years. Absolutely devastating to Deer . Thank you for sharing.

[@haroldmartin4547]

Been shooting a TC Hawkens in 50 and 54 for about 30 years. They have never let me down. Liked the video👍👍

[@63DW89A]

Excellent video, that is very informative with very well tabulated results. Your video style is perfect for giving the viewer maximum information in minimum time. Your choice of FFFg powder for rifle use is correct. Lots of needless confusion about black powder use caused by modern muzzle loading "Experts" beginning around the 1960's. Below is a description of how black powder was used in the 19th Century, which predates the opinions of modern "Experts". Using the terminology of Hazard Powder Company from the 19th Century, traditionally FFg was for shotgun / musket (thin barreled arms). FFFg was called "Rifle Powder". FFFFg was called "Number One Pistol Powder". And beginning around 1855, at the request of Colt Firearms, a very fine grain FFFFFg (5Fg) was made, and called "Cartridge Powder". The very fine grained "Cartridge Powder" was used in what became "Combustible Envelope Revolver Cartridges" used with the cap and ball .28, .31, .36 and .44 revolvers. The 5Fg Cartridge Powder was too fine grained to be safely flask loaded in a revolver because it could dribble thru the nipples allowing loose powder around the cylinder nipple areas, where a powder flare up on firing could cause a chain fire. For that reason, 5Fg "Cartridge Powder" was intended strictly for use where the charge was contained in a paper powder envelope glued to the base of a conical bullet. Swiss Black Powder is an excellent high performance black powder of "Sporting Grade" and is as good as the best Hazard Powder of the 19th Century. So Swiss FFg is Musket/Shotgun powder, Swiss FFFg is "Rifle Powder. Swiss FFFFg is "Pistol Powder" and Swiss Null B (5Fg) would be "Cartridge Powder". Personally in cap and ball revolver use, if loading a full chamber under a round ball, I use Swiss FFFg. For Conical bullet use in a C&B revolver I use FFFFg. For making revolver combustible cartridges glued to the base of a conical bullet, I use Swiss Null B (5Fg), keeping charge weight to about 10% conical bullet weight as was traditional. For example in a .44 Army, a 220 grain conical bullet gets 22 grains of Null B in the powder envelope, which is good for 940+ fps in an 8" barrel Army revolver! Happy, safe shooting!

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Thank you so much!!!

[@reaperreconnaissance599]

Just picked up a hawken rifle today, it needs a little tlc due to some tarnishing on the brass and a few spots on the barrel that are scratched and need some blueing. I got it at a bargain and can easily fix the damage and make it pretty again. Love the video, very informative. Gives me an idea what I may like to try.

[@brianclay3315]

Ive used 3f in my .45 and .50 cal TC Renegades for 30yrs. Never an issue. Takes less powder, burns hotter, burns a little cleaner than 2f because you get a more complete burn. I only use 2f in .54 cal+.

[@joeinterrante7873]

I use 3f in my . 54 too

[@Jebusisblatantidolatry]

Same here. I run 3F in all my BP guns from .36 to .50 cal.

[@mongosafariadventure]

So many people have given up on traditional style front stuffers. There are still a bunch of us out there. One note to remember is your rifle accuracy ammunition preference. My T/C New Englander 54 caliber shoots conical bullets more accurately than patched round ball and ballet, never tried sabot due to the 1/48" twist. So, if you're testing bullet performance at 75 yards plus the accuracy means hitting or missing the water jugs. Fantastic video. I have a new appreciation for patched round ball. Mine are .490" plus .015" twill, lubed patch. Plus, just picked up some PA Conical and Great Plains 385 bullets to test out. Thank you. I subscribed and will be watching your videos.

[@flintymcduff5417]

You are right but the wait times for custom builds from all the builders shows that the interest is there and always has been. I started with T/C Hawken and it taught me a lot. I believe if T/C pulled its head out of the dark place and started producing again what they started out with they would sell a TON of them. Pedersoli makes a better gun but they cost more and are hard to find. Traditions makes a decent gun but they are also hard to find. And T/C just keeps on pumping out inlines as if they couldn't possible produce BOTH.

[@mongosafariadventure]

@@flintymcduff5417 I agree with you except Smith & Wesson (owner of T/C) has no interest in traditional type muzzleloaders. I believe S&W will minimally keep T/C alive while it benefits S&W. Similar to Ruger is keeping Marlin alive producing a limited line of firearms that doesn't compete with Ruger's line. THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY.

[@efxanim8tor]

I so agree about TC - my TC Hawken .54 will put the maxi hunter w/90gr of FF in the same hole @50yards if you know how to shoot. My TC inline shooting 250gr sabot will do the same at 75yds shooting 100gr pellets. Most accurate muzzloaders I think on the market. I have a traditions hawken .50 that shoots lousy groups @50yds comparably. Had to go to a sabot with it to get those lousy groups. Shot terrible with conicals. Maybe round ball would be better? How does the Pedersoli stack against TC?

[@darrellmorse1894]

I've using the PA ballet for a good number of years out of my slow-twist barreled flintlocks. They are very accurate and deadly on deer.

[@BcFuTw9jt]

The Great Plains bullets do really well in elk, deer, and antelope out of my plains 54 flint sparker. I lune mine but out at 145 yards they have no problem in a bull elk

[@notsosilentmajority1]

Great job on the video. It should be noted that the roundball that went through 5 jugs, actually hit the top of the jugs. There is a lot less mass and water near the top of the jugs. The other projectiles went through the thickest part of the jugs and met the most resistance. I have no fight in the game, it doesn't matter which one penetrated further, it just seemed like the roundball faced less resistance. The fact that flintlocks were so capable is amazing. I really like the flintlock long range shooting exercises. The flintlocks and cap and ball firearms were much more capable than many people realize. Thanks for an excellent video.

[@willywantoknow2563]

Really enjoyed this video. I took my first shots with mine the other day. My favorite rifle.

[@Bayan1905]

One thing that this test proves is that the patched round ball is still viable for hunting and within reason, say 150 yards and under. With a properly placed shot that roundball will bring down a deer no problem, especially in some of the larger bores. With the .50 caliber, it's got plenty of power, but you get something like a .54 or even a .58 caliber roundball and they will really deliver some muzzle energy. I've killed deer with a .58 caliber Enfield musketoon using nothing more than the old Civil War style Minie bullets out to 150 plus yards and it was devastating. It resembled what I had seen using shotgun slugs at close range. If I could my .69 caliber smoothbore to shoot very accurately out to 70 yards I might hunt deer with that because the energy that would deliver would be far and away about the .50 caliber guns.

[@pb68slab18]

I used a .54cal muzzle loading long rifle I built from a kit for several whitetail deer. A swaged & patched round ball with 60grs of 2fg behind the right shoulder at about 75yds dropped my biggest buck like it was hit with a Mack truck. It practically blew the entire left shoulder out a very large hole! FWIW; the true "Hawken" rifles from the PA gunsmiths of the 1830s~1840s generally had longer (30") barrels and slow rifling rates (1 turn in 60~70") and were for patched round balls. They didn't have brass decorations either. They were rather plain. Furniture was usually soft iron or steel.

[@johnshields9110]

Late finding this video but great testing! I bought a T/C Hawken 50 cal back in 1975 (it has a Sett Trigger)and tested various patch materials till I found an old baby pagamas it like using with the 490 balls. I proved to my Dad I could hit a quarter at 40 yards. I had a package of the 275 gr Thomopson and I only shot 2 of them under a maximum load to just see what the recoil was like!?! Good God! I never got a buck to walk under my stand during late Winter hunts, but I did use this gun on squirrels and ground hogs (just like Jed Clampett). I head shot my first squirrel at 40 yards! The penetration of the RB was impressive; I only hand chunks of wood, and a few ice jugs back in the day.

[@davemeise2192]

That's very cool. I shoot a 50 cal hawken too. Excellent rifle! I use mine for small game hunting now as I use a 72 caliber rifle for big game. I've used the 50 for many years to hunt moose and deer with the maxi ball.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Thanks for sharing Dave!

[@waynehullihen3066]

The PA Conical was designed to be used in the 1-66 inch twist round ball guns like the Thompson Center PA Hunter. I have a PA Hunter carbine and it’s accuracy greatly improved when I started using them.

[@minigpracing3068]

That's good to know. I may have to try them in my old CVA Kentucky long rifle in 45, it's a 1 in 66 barrel.

[@ringofasho7721]

I have a deluxe Kentucky from Traditions. Just got it in last week and haven't tried it yet, but I intend on testing RB and conical to see what it likes better. I intend on stalk hunting with it. I kill 1 or 2 a year stalking with my 1885 high wall in 45-70. Most of my shots are 40- 75 yards, so the kentucky should be more than up to the task, even with marginal accuracy

[@nickyjohn2389]

​@ringofasho7721 why marginal accuracy when hunting game? ringo you're showing inexperience.

[@EricFox-l2g]

Thanks for the great video! I've got a 45 cal T/C Hawken and I've had a hard time finding ammunition for it other than round ball. Regardless, I took a large whitetail doe this year with a patched round ball and it did a fantastic job. 40 yard shot, 70 grains of Pyrodex. Lung shot that did not pass through, but did devastating damage to the rib cage after entering. She ran about 30 yards and dropped. The patched round ball hits right where I'm aiming, and seems to have good terminal performance, so I guess I'm sticking with that! Thanks again for sharing these options and if I can find some in 45 cal, I'll give them a try!

[@jreed10291974]

Track of the wolf has everything you need.

[@johncoxe7990]

I have owned T/C caplocks for nearly 50 years and my first projectiles were T/C Maxi Balls and Maxi Hunters. The Maxi-Ball is 100 yards accurate- BUT- I have never successfully recovered a deer shot with that projectile. Scratch it from the list. The Maxi Hunter is 50 yards accurate and I have zero confidence in it beyond that distance. The Hornady Great Plains bullet is my preferred lead projectile. The CVA Power Belt is an awesome projectile- basically an updated Minnie Ball with a hollow point- which is extremely accurate and EFFECTIVE on deer- very comparable to 45/70 300 grain JHP.

[@bobconnor1210]

Well done! That twist is a “compromise twist”. That is so that one can shoot both RB and conicals and expect reasonable accuracy at “hunting ranges”,say..50yds. A rifle made to shoot conicals exclusively would have a faster twist(1:32, or so) and that would be way too fast for RB and accuracy would suffer noticeably.

[@SunriseSideIronworks]

I love my traditions hawken rifle. I tried the Great Plains bullet, not a huge fan because at least in my case I had to really fight it down the barrel. Been casting my own round ball and R.E.A.L. Conical bullets and had great results with them.

[@russellcraven251]

Enjoyed seeing how they compared.Thanks for posting.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Thanks Russell.

[@antz6130]

I’m glade I found your channel cause I also love traditional muzzleloaders I own three all Thompson Center 70’s/80’s built like tanks! 1. Renegade.54 2. Renegade.50 3. Hawken.54 I also did the same test and I found that the round patch n ball fff .90 grain was my most accurate at 50 - 100 yards good old patch and ball harvested a heck of a whole of game in the old west with patch n ball set up Great video and great channel Hoot too shoot 💥 traditional muzzleloaders

[@andywhite3512]

Loved the vid! Would like to see more of this type of content. Perhaps in larger calibers?

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Good idea. I've got some pistols and other rifles that need some time on the range.

[@mistermatt9056]

Great video! I was surprised that the projectile that had the best penetration was the RB, although your shot was a tad high. I love to see an accuracy test with the same rifle. Three shots with each bullet, with the same load, at 50 or 75 yards off a bench. Then we'll see how the RB likes fast twist barrels. Thanks Ethan.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Definitely Matt, it's on the list. Thanks for watching!

[@brucelewis1017]

Rounds ball doesn't like the fast twist barrel

[@WiscoTuck]

It's due to bullet design. The other bullets wlare designed to deform and transfer as much energy into the target as possible, sacrificing penetration for displacement.

[@skiphinson8620]

Great video! Awesome bullets. I’d love to see you test the LEE REAL bullet in the same test. I hunt with the lee real in .45 and .50. Last season I took a deer head shot with the .45 lee real 200 grain bullet. Very explosive results at the close distance of about 25 yards. My velocity average with this bullet is 1938 FPS in my Kentucky rifle.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Definitely something I will try Skip! Thanks for sharing.

[@donaldmorgan5265]

80 grains of Swiss 3f... you took a beating filming this video! Good show!!!

[@murdocks8242]

I tried the PA conical and Great plains in my Cabela's hawking flintlock because of this video. They both shot well but the PA conical seem to cause a lot of fowling, very greasy. I could tell the Great plains had much mor recoil but shot well at 100 yards. Thanks for the video!

[@Piledriver2235]

Used maxi hunters for years, but switched to the 385gr great plains bullet and absolutely love the accuracy, ease of loading and they hit very hard. Lyman great plains 50cal flintlock

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

I think they are a nice bullet. Thanks for sharing!

[@timbyhogan920]

Use the Great Plains in a 30 + year old CVA Hawken. I do lube with Bore Butter. Loads easy and very accurate. Deadly on deer here in West Virginia.

[@prostreetcamaro]

The deer we shot all told us those patched round balls hurt pretty darn bad lol. Havent shot the old school stuff in years now. Might be time to get them out.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Now is the time!

[@stanleyromanowski9816]

Lyman recomended 70 grains of FFFg with a .490 roundball with a .010 patch for my Great Plains Hawkin style muzzleloader. Works fine for the last 40 years.

[@LETME-kl9jg]

I've never owned a Hawken styled gun only a T/ C New Englander,... And Thompson Center just reopened so soon New product's will be rolling out.

[@andrewkirkpatrick626]

My old man has taken many deer with his olde Thompson center Hawkins with Maxie Hunter bullets I've hunted with it a few times too and took a deer when I was a teenager and those Maxi ball bullets shot great out of it the TC Hawkins is a classic gun now worth a lot more than it used to be

[@Hill_Billy_Without_A_Hill]

I'd like to see a break action inline in 1:48 twist CVA or Traditions. Would be neat to soo what it would do.

[@joearledge1]

Hey Ethan great video! I'd love to see you take these bullets and any other traditional style bullets (Lee REAL, maxi-ball, ect...) and do a precision test at 50 to 100 yards. I, and a lot of other Hawken shooters, world love to see what you can get to print the smallest groups out of your gun!!

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Great idea Joseph, definitely adding it to the list! Thanks so much!

[@joearledge1]

@@ILoveMuzzleloading sounds great Sir, can't wait to see more videos

[@stephenembrey883]

Good write up with factory bullets. I make mine out of wheel weights for the most part dropped out of the mold into ice water. Provides a crystalline appearance but is very hard, and will penetrate when you need it, but just the original diameter of the bullet with no expansion is quite impressive on its own on deer. It really starts paying off when you get into the very big wild hogs. I have got all length penetration and exit from the stem to stern on a 400 pound wall boar. The cool thing is is you can customize the bullet material for your specific purpose.

[@mikecrockett3669]

This was great, sir. Thanks for the effort and time you put into it for others benefit. Appreciated.

[@danielravenstar4051]

Best comparison video i seen so far

[@davidlyons5614]

I’m happy If I can hit a 6” paper plate at 50 yards out of my Traditions PA Pellet flintlock rifle with a 1:48” twist. Shot many deer with it and recovery has never been a problem. Did get a new Traditions PA Pellet ultralight flintlock with a 1:28” twist for the grandson (after looking for 2 years for a left hand model), I can’t wait to see how it shoots at the range the day after Christmas to get ready for the weekend flintlock hunt. Any proven loads that we can start with would be appreciated . Grandson shot my gun pretty good (has gotten 3 doe and a spike) for it being a right hand model.

[@johndufford5561]

Appreciated your work & the data. Volume was quote low, though, hard to hear your comments. I think I heard you say that slower rifling is best for patched round balls, while faster twist is better for conicals, which is correct for accuracy. The commercial Hawken styles are usually 1 in 48, which is a good compromise. My .32 flintlock is 1 in 72 with a 54 inch barrel. Great round ball gun using, about a thimblefull of BP. Tack driver!

[@charlesshepherd9132]

That PA Conical is quite impressive, especially for the slower twist guns. Wish they made it for .54.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Maybe someday!

[@doranmaxwell1755]

My buddy and I have been shooting for half a century each. we have flirted with BP from time to time.. we shot a 'Hawkins 50' and then bought the 'kits' and built our own. Hitting 2 liter bottles at 100 yards is a hoot. we shoot round balls that are both store bought soft lead and cast. we are shocked by the accuracy of said loads with 70 grains of BP

[@jimbo3615]

Excellent video, very well done!

[@Keep-em-straight]

Good video, very informative, as Mister Matt said, I would love to see an accuracy test with that rifle as all projectiles performed as they should. Thank you for showing this.

[@kentwilliams4152]

I wonder how the TC Maxie Ball would have done?

[@chriskourliourod1651]

Just some food for thought for y’all: 50 cal. Thompson/Center PA Hunter, 31” barrel, 1-66” rifling twist, 90 gr. FFFg black powder, 1/8” ox-yoke lubed felt wad, .018 pre-lubed pillow ticking patch , .490 round ball. 1.5” high @ 50 yds; on the nose @ 75; 0.5” low @ 100. Those are the group centers. Group sizes are at and inside 1.5 @ 50; 2.5 and better @ 75; and 3.5 and better @ 100. Some of you may rightfully laugh at the “0.5 low @ 100,” but that was my admittedly human result. Because of the obvious decrease in energy from 50 to 100 (2” drop) , I refuse to shoot at deer further than 100, and I don’t have a bench in the woods. FWIW, I shot the rifle at 200 yds. with a purposely oversized target: 3.5 feet low, 7” 4-shot group. Oh, the rifle is a flintlock. God has blessed me, and may He bless you.

[@hughezzell10000]

To go along with that: Hawken, 32" barrel, 1:60 twist, .090 ball with a thinner cotton patch, 70 grains of Goex, 80 yards sliced very cleanly thru a hard 2x4 - a very clean hole. I'll never look down my nose at a round ball again. That's one deadly projectile out of a muzzleloader.

[@Man-ug9yh]

I.brought a traditions hawkens riffle and swiped the barrel from 1:48twist barrel to a 1:66 twist barrel and havent look back. Round ball are surprisingly accurate

[@chriskourliourod1651]

I’ve heard that the trouble with the 1-48” twist is that it tries to do everything to the point of sometimes doing nothing, depending on the gun. I heard about a guy whose only accurate load was 50 gr FFFg, and he restricted his deer shots to within 50 yards. He should do what you did.

[@Man-ug9yh]

Round ball for me any day of the week 70 to 90 grains. . I always say I would never hunt with a traditional black powder rifle . I lied to myself big time .I rather use this instead of my modern firearm .

[@chriskourliourod1651]

If you’re what I think you are, get lost. I can’t tolerate communist mfers.

[@steveg8322]

Had trouble printing on a target at 50 yards with my ancient and honorable T/C 50 cal Hawken.A book by Dr.Sam Fadala suggested placing the target at 13 yards or 13 giant steps. Sighting in was a breeze,using. 490 RBs and. 010 patches, after being right on at 13 yards, 50 and 75 were effortless, and this with a flintlock mind you.Hope it helps someone.

[@samperron2866]

Great test & review. Love your work. FYI...shot a nice doe last week with a 245 grain Buffalo Ball-ett (clone of PA conical). My gun is an 50 cal Optima Pistol, used 70 grains of 777-3F. Hit her from a 15' tree stand, quartering slightly toward me. Perfect upper shoulder shot. Bullet came apart and made mush of the upper body organs. Heart was unrecognizable. Sliver of an exit hole from a piece of the bullet behind the off side ribcage. Dead run for about 50 yards.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

That's great to hear, thank you for sharing. Congrats on your deer!

[@victortuten4399]

Outstanding job. I appreciate what you're doing! I like using 3F in my muzzleloader as well. I shoot a flintlock so that little extra punch is nice.

[@bkauffman0390]

I use 3f in everything.

[@donaldhofman5257]

I do as well! Just don't overdo the powder! I blew out the nipple once!

[@victortuten4399]

@@donaldhofman5257 70 grains is about all I use. The gun seems to really like that load and I am confident it will get the job done!

[@dougmarshall5504]

I use 50 grains in my Great Plains rifle with a round ball and it never disappoints 😊

[@coreystoner4129]

The two bullets I run in my gun are a prb and hornady conical which are both suitable for my gun which has a 1 in 66 twist. I can stack 3 prb or hornady conicals at 50 yards and mine is a flintlock. The first shot is a prb then my following fouling shots are hornady conicals.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Nice!

[@rockarollcountryQ]

How about a accuracy test using all the above bullets. I have a traditions 54 cal. Bullets is scares here in South Africa for the 54 cal. Thanks for all you interesting work you do for all our other BP shooters

[@bkauffman0390]

Love me some roundball. Good stuff Ethan

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Thanks Brian! Hope you and the family are doing well.

[@mr.somebody1493]

Round ball wins. 👍

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

No school like the old school

[@taylorharbin3948]

Yes, they are good, but some barrels have twist rates that are better suited to round ball than others.

[@davehuntzinger1622]

Give the 360 grain Maxi-ball by T/C, you will get better accuracy and better penetration. That bullet was designed by T/C in the early days of their Hawken rifle series.

[@randyjohnson6845]

And Thompson says go with a wonder wad every time

[@grantrodgers2470]

Love the maxi ball...in.50 cal Hawken.......more accurate than the 385 great plains.Also extremely powerful.Blew through 4 ....1 1/2 inch thick Douglas fir boards.

[@hiyadowan895]

I have a nice old TC Seneca in 45. It has double set triggers and is pretty accurate with power belt Bullets and I use 60 grains of 777 not sure of the velocity but I'm pretty sure it will get it done

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Sounds like a good set up!

[@davehuntzinger1622]

After my ex wife got my first Seneca, I went out and bought two more while they were still available. I'm glad I did now, I have one in 36 caliber,one in 45 caliber, and a couple of spare barrels plus miscellaneous parts.

[@savageater57]

I've been shooting muzzleloaders for over 30 yrs starting with a CVA .50 cal and round ball . My current favorite is a Thompson Center. 54 cal Hawken . Using 110 grs of Pyrodex P with a Hornady 425 gr Great Plains bullet is extremely accurate (3/4" groups at 50 yds) it shoots flat out to about 125 yards. It does not however like round ball at all with any powder/patch loading .

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Thanks for sharing Roger! Glad you have a load your rifle likes!

[@louisbailey9569]

Best real world video of it's kind! Ty!

[@blackpowderfirearmenthusia3194]

Great video, I have tried all of these projectiles before in my Traditions Hawken Woodsmen 50 caliber rifle and the two that I like best is PRBs, and the 385 grain lead Hornady Great Plains. And the Hornady Great Plains is also a lot lower cost than all the others in a conical lead bullet. The lead Power Belts I tried were consistently accurate also but they cost way to much for me. My rifle also has a 1:48 twist. Thank you for a great informative video.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Thanks for watching! I haven't tried the lead powerbelts, but I know they can be expensive!

[@johnathonarnold9070]

Had some trouble in my 1 in 48 with the great planes how much powder do you use if you don’t mind me asking?

[@blackpowderfirearmenthusia3194]

@@johnathonarnold9070 I use 80 grains of Goex ffg black powder. 80 grains seem to be the best load, when I went higher it wasn't consistent and thus was shooting from the bench.

[@johnathonarnold9070]

@@blackpowderfirearmenthusia3194 thank you! I'll drop my powder down and try again they got good reviews on killing and stopping power and I wanted that. if it could do better than the old ball and patch I'd be pleased

[@doghousedon1]

Now THAT'S a muzzleloader! Thanks for doing this vid.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Glad you liked it!

[@Ford360CID]

this was a very to the point test and well dialoged video, short dialog and kept up your interest thought the test.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Thanks for checking it out!

[@johnndavis7647]

Understanding your rifling is the key thing in figuring out what your rifle will do best with. These factory rifles have button swaged rifling that is usually around 9 or 10 thousands deep. You want a patch that will compress and fill the grooves. Your 15 thou patch is a good choice. Then you want a ball that will go down a clean bore easily. Here again your 495 is probably a good choice. In a rough bore you might want to try a 490. These factory rifles use a 1x48 twist. This is a compromise twist. It will usually give good accuracy with a patched round ball provided your charges aren't too heavy. Usually a charge somewhere between 60 and 90 grains will give best accuracy. A target set at 50 or 75 yards will Show which charge shoots best groups. If you want to try bullets these shallow groove barrels do very well with them but he 1x48 twist won't stabilize the very long heavy bullets. You will see oblong holes in the targets at 100 yards. You want a 1x28 twist for really heavy bullets. I ordered some 50 caliber Cival War style Mini's from Dixie Gun Works and they shot very well in my 1x48 barrel. The best part is that they load easy. I carried them for a fast reload when hunting. Never shot any meat with one though. Thanks for all you do.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Thanks for sharing this information John! It helps me and many others!

[@jesseseelhoff7955]

Very good test. I get the best accuracy in all my 48 twist guns using PRB. I tested with a single jug and 2 layers of 1/2" plywood to simulate a shoulder shot. Even my 24" traditions deer hunter made it through at 100

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Good idea using plywood! I'm glad to hear your rifle is performing!

[@brucepoole8552]

What are prb's? Personal round balls? Thanks

[@GodOfThunder6789]

Good demonstration. I’ve killed 2 deer with the pa conicals out of a Lyman 50 cal flintlock trade rifle. 1/48 twist. 1 dropped and the other was an easy track. Before switching to the conicals I used PRBs. Very accurate but almost always left me with difficult tracking jobs due to their limited expansion.

[@smartacus88]

The PA Conical is designed to offer good accuracy in a slow twist PRB barrel while providing terminal performance on game that surpasses what roundball can do. 1/60-1/70 twist rates.

[@Weaponsandstuff93]

I imagine the main advantage of a Minié ball style bullet/pellet is that as it can grip rifling unlike a roundball it will have a much further range accuracy advantage.

[@kirkstinson7316]

Depends on what your shooting. Like a Pedersoli repro Enfield or Springfield rifled musket has ruffling that is cut for patched round ball, not minie ball

[@tradarcher8714]

Love the video, I been thinking about buying a cva hawken because it was my dad’s muzzleloader

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Always good to reconnect with your dad!

[@russellsawyer5880]

Try buying caps first ???

[@Masteradamant]

Best muzzleloader video online thanks!

[@stepabove2136]

Wow 😮 that round ball really surprised me 😮. It may be the best round for hunting 😳

[@Dad-lj4kj]

Great test video 👍 Had to order some of those Hornady PA Conicals after seeing how easy they load and watching them expand so well. Wish they would start making them in other caliber…🤔

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Very cool! I hope you enjoy them!

[@apexpredatoroutdoors8308]

I use the 460 grain great plains in my TC Hawken. It is awesome on deer.

[@mikesellers9827]

Great video, I you've got me saving up jugs for my own shooting test, and the fact that I love seeing them blow apart like that. Also saving going to get a hawken 2. Maybe try testing all the bullet's against ice, and by the way, I love muzzleloading 2

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

I love to hear that Mike, I hope you have as much fun as I did. I'm glad you love muzzleloading!

[@gcnphilly]

Hey Ethan. Great video. I actually got a box of the Maxi-Hunters to try on my Traditions Flintlock Deerhunter. Couldn’t get those bad boys down the barrel. Just not the right one for my firearm. I’ll stick with lead balls - tried and true! 😁

[@Afro408]

Great test and some very useful information gained. It also showed the cohesive quality of pure lead and the thing you could have done was to weigh each projectile before and after, to see how much, if any, mass was lost. The RB appeared to be complete and possibly also the short RN pellet and if so, would mean that these two would be the best ( in my view ) bullets for hunting, as there would be no lead contamination of surrounding tissue. This a real concern for me, because of some of the X-ray tests I have seen done on game shot with hi-velocity jacket bullets, showing lead particles in the meat a hell of a long way away from the wound channel. We muzzleloaders handle enough lead without ingesting it as well. 😅👏👏👏👍🥃🥃

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Hi Tony, thanks for the great comment. I have the before/After weight listed at 12:15, you can also find it in the description and at the blog post on my website. Cheers!

[@Afro408]

@@ILoveMuzzleloading seems I missed that while typing. 🤣👍🏼

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

No sweat! I do it all the time!

[@randywollin5732]

Great video, but I dont know if you have a grain scale but if you do, you could weigh the bullet before and aftervto see if you recovered all of the lead fragments.

[@TwoStageTrigger]

For gunting, id use the prb or the pa conical. The expansion and lack of fragmentation were great. My gun is more accurate with prb, but hunting laws in utah mean id need the heavier pa conical if i wanted to use it for elk.

[@ar1chris1]

I'm going to have to try some of those pa conical they seem to mushroom out better than a round ball and not to pricey. Good testing!

[@pbfirearms5388]

off check the weight of the round ball I believe it split I've had several round balls split in deer making two Wound channels. I know everyone is taught differently but you need to smoothly push the bullet down the barrel to seat depth never hammer the bullet with the ball starter or ram rod for two reason one it deforms the bullet causing accuracy problems and two the most important it deforms the bullet which turns the bullet into a barrel obstruction which will eventually weaken the barrel and can cause it to blow up!

[@donaldslayton2769]

I'm still broken up that Hornady quite making the .54 great plains bullets. 425gr at 1600fps has been my muzzleloader elk bullet for years. Picked up a 380gr lee mold that I'll use when I run out. I just use round ball for deer in my TC thunderhawk

[@OdoyleRules24]

Is there a noticeable difference in recoil between each projectile? I would love to see a roundball fired into a Paul Harrell type meat target. Might have to make my own up.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

The only one of this set I noticed a difference in recoil was the Hornady Great Plains, when you jump up to 300+ grains in bullet wait I think you feel it more than the sub 300.

[@davidwhite9249]

They all did well against the water jugs. Would like to see the same tests against ballistic gel!

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Thanks David! Working on saving up for some gel

[@calebswartz6273]

These vids are awesome, thanks Ethan!

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Glad you like them! Thanks so much.

[@bobboyer9440]

Though there is minimal expansion on the round ball, it will be my choice for big game including moose if it is within 50 yards. Should get an in and out hole where it can leak a lot of fluid.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

I think a lot of big game animals have been taken with roundball over the years.

[@anthonyj.adventures9736]

Awesome video. It looks like that first round split in 2. I'm as you saw you had a wedge shape going in and out of the rest.

[@dennisrodgers6887]

I have recovered round dalls from deer that looked identical. They do not split that's just how they deform.

[@rickhutson9681]

For a couple years I used sabot's and they were horrible at drilling through deer without any expansion. I only use Great Plains and Thompson lead bullets in my Thompson inline and they have dropped deer everytime I have shot them with massive expansion. Even the Game Warden was surprised at how much damage was done in the deer and he has witnessed a couple of the deer I have shot going down and he said that they acted like a semi landed on them. Proof of the killing power of the old fashioned lead bullets when placed in the heart/lung area .

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Great story, I couldn't agree more!

[@MrOldclunker]

Placement has a lot to do with dropping them. I have used powerbelts and they look like they exploded and never came out the other side, but the damage was tremendous.

[@ghetinknotabush8602]

Great info! I plan to do some roundball shooting with my new CVA Wolf V2. I followed your tip about Triple 7. OH, BY THE WAY; those low-growing succulent plants under oak trees (acorns) is an odd place for target practise! YOU SCARED THE DEER AWAY (and everything else) going postal on milk jugs! hahaha, u r funny, too!

[@jamesstrawn6087]

The discussion between conicals and round ball often ends up being more about the twist. This may seem to have little to do with penetrations except that you need to have a way to see if the conical is tumbling & if so if this can be remedied by charge. A lower twist probably helps just as the round ball would do better in accuracy terms with a higher twist (say 1-70). Differences between the outcomes may also reflect slightly different lead sourcing or even alloys as one sometmes gets with the lead in tire weights.

[@linklesstennessee2078]

I’ve killed several deer with my 50 cal Thompson hawked 1:48 I always used a Hornady .490 round ball my son had the same gun he shot the Great Plains bullet genarlly found the bullet in other side of hide but it put them down haven’t shot much of anything since last November I had a stroke I did kill a few with a inline pro hunter but the bullets I used didn’t expand much after 100 yd nor did it leave a blood trail just be a spot here and there but found my deer it was hard never got to play with some different bullets I use a .452 sabot any rcomendations ? I used them TC bullets in wal mart lol they do not expand good but are very accurate need to change bullets on deer

[@jackblackpowderprepper4940]

Good demonstration Ethan. Got some real black powder and a big difference in my groups in the Shenandoah and Pennsylvania. Tightened up to clover leafs. No significant changes in the T/C Hawken. I believe it's all in the riflings. The blackpowder also eliminated the hard Recoil. I love it.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Glad the real powder helped Jack!

[@SgtAwesome97]

I've shot some of those great plains conicals out of my traditions inline, and my word they pack a wallop even using the muzzle break. 90 grains powder just straight SENDS that thing. Lots of energy being send into steel targets And when it hits a soft target like a fruit or jug, nothing left.

[@georgesakellaropoulos8162]

If you slow down the heavier slugs, you will get better penetration and less meat damage,( the eat right up to the hole thing,) and they will put critters down with efficiency. I use the old Thompson Center Maxi Ball over 90 grains of 2F GOEX. It penetrates in a straight line and I've killed many deer with it, out to 140 yards. They've all gone down quickly and were dead when I walked up to them. This is at the cost of a rainbow like trajectory, but once you learn it, this is not a real handicap. Exit wounds are about the size of a half dollar, and there is an easy to follow blood trail, should that be necessary.

[@bowiebowie2026]

One thing about it is I couldn't believe the mushroom that that PA type chronicle did and I don't use 80 grains of powder I usually go between 90 and 110 grains of powder so I know I've got maximum proficiency and maximum performance out of that rifle but with that PA type chronicle bullet just a being a little tight and everything it's hard to get down that barrel with that 512 diameter bullet that's the only problem that I've got with it does shoot it really good but it's just really tight with my rifling and my rifle twist is about the same as your rifle twist in your Hawken rifle but one thing about it is it's a really good hard-hitting round very accurate and very devastating round but I stick with around 90 grains of powder so I know it's it has real good performance between 110 to 90 grains I use the 110 grains for the Kentucky rifle and everything but 90 grains and little buck that's my small Hawken rifle

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Thanks for sharing!

[@peterrussell798]

Excellent video. Enjoyed your methodology and analysis. On a related note, Garand Thumb has a video of firing a Revolutionary War era flintlock at a ballistic gel dummy complete with skeletal structure. It’s interesting, hilarious, and profane all in one.

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Thank you kindly, these videos are a lot of fun. I saw GarandThumb's video, lots of fun!!

[@jamesholt6032]

You have done a great job with your video ..i enjoyed to the fullest...THANK YOU FOR SHARING

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

Thank you James! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@davefellhoelter1343]

I just "purchased" repaired and refinished this same RIFLE! have not fired yet. My first caped rifle. Any Idea where or who may have original rear sights? Can't WAIT to get her out! Now I have tested! and I AM LOADING paper charges of .50 and .495 balls at my bench NOW! after watching this AGAIN! I will test my twist and up my charge significantly! and Test Again! Thanks AGAIN for Your Knowledge! Keep your Smoke Poles Smoking!

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

I hope you enjoy it!

[@doctormax54]

I use flintlocks principally (I took percussion and flintlock shotguns to hunt doves) when hunting but I teach Hunter Education and discuss alternative firearms to all shooters. A few commenters below have mentioned inlines and many new shooters use them; have you ever shot inlines at plastic jugs with round balls? I would be curious what the results would be against sabot projectiles. Thanks for all you do to educate and elucidate the fun of shooting muzzleloaders.

[@Rumblestrip]

For the great plains, its the hollow point i suspect thats causing it to coming out the side and splinter. Ill say, it does long range pretty good too. I got a pedersoli kentucky long rifle flintlock i was shoot out to 1000 yards with those. 75 grains of ffg, priming with ffffg all goex back 2 years ago

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

I'll have to try it at farther distances. I really like it's design

[@Rumblestrip]

@@ILoveMuzzleloading i do to. Its what got me to move into the lee improved minie in a few calibers.

[@gregggibson3109]

Most impressed with the Hornady PA Conical…very nice expansion and good penetration. I wonder what minimum twist rate would stabilize this projectile. And, I wonder what the accuracy difference between projectiles might be? I like the milk jug test approach, it’s simple anyone can replicate it. Good video

[@thess344]

1:66. Hornady came out with them when PA started allowing conicals for the late flintlock season here.

[@brucelewis1017]

I've used the maxi hunter they work good on deer