How Far Can You Get In BTD4 ?

[@halcyonzomboid]

Hallo, HZ here. :) Wow! Can't believe someone showcased my run! I'm truly honoured... thank you so much. :) You quite accurately captured a lot of the non-obvious stuff. To be honest, the whole penny-hoarding setup was chiefly so I would have less to rebuild when I inevitably died and reloaded on Round 74. 5:24 - if you guys are wondering why I abruptly deleted the bottom row of Banana Research Facilities and started packing Sun Gods in that space, it's because *the density of Bloons instantly doubles at Round 120* and the setup from Rounds 102-119 would fail. 6:39 - I really appreciate you calling this out. Seriously, after Round 130 or so, the recording was a much bigger deal than the gameplay to me. And, as a Ph.D. physicist, I really enjoyed your outro. ESA, you will not go to space today! :P The original in all its glory: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4DNlJWGht2Vhqc Thank you again for the showcase! -HZ

[@MackanRules]

Amazing game dude! Pinning your comment :)

[@LutherDX]

w game play fun seeing people still play this game

[@plasmacotton]

HUGE kudos for playing 24/7. Can't imagine how tired you were. Truly massive dedication.

[@christianovancleave6364]

Omg HZ! I'm a huge fan

[@halcyonzomboid]

@@christianovancleave6364 Cheers christianovancleave, my pleasure! :)

[@Wilson_Does_Stuff]

Did you know that in btd4, there was a map with a temple. When you placed down 40 towers you would get a prompt to allow you to purchase a temple for $30,000, and to have all towers sacrificed. This later evolved into the sun temple. (In the expansion pack of corse)

[@genio2509]

It is not by clicking it, when you place down 40 towers and $30,000, next end of the round the pop up will appear, all towers will be sacrificed. But you only have that chance, if you say no, you have to restart to use it.

[@Xhadp]

That was the hardest map in the game too iirc.

[@Wilson_Does_Stuff]

@@genio2509 oh yeah let me change that

[@icaroaraujo4341]

Was it not 50?

[@genio2509]

@@icaroaraujo4341 Nope, but it isn't 30 either, it's 40 :P

[@kuza9671]

8:40 damn the bloons lore is really deep

[@sooyster4033]

🤣🤣🤣

[@CerealExperimentsMizuki]

Exploding rockets isn't that deep.

[@generalh1044]

I'm surprised you didnt mention that 250 is actually a special round that isn't random like the freeplay rounds before it. It is designed to kill any players who make it that far. Round 250 contains: 999 BFB's

[@Juliemc]

That’s not actually eccivly difficult( in btd6).

[@aguyontheinternet8436]

@@Juliemc what the hell was _eccivly_ supposed to mean

[@Juliemc]

@@aguyontheinternet8436 sorry excessively

[@MackanRules]

Can't believe i missed that, thank you!

[@dom20141]

@@Juliemc yeah, btd6...

[@haronka]

1:18 The first 3 games actually has upgrade paths, but with 4, Ninja Kiwi decided to go without them for some reason

[@gfoh7098]

prob because nk didnt think of crosspathing yet and thought towers would literally be op or nk had trouble with making tier 3s and 4s for 2 paths so it has reduced to 1 path

[@Vgamer311]

Technically in a sense yeah, but with no real choices since you never got locked out of a path. 5 was the first game where you had to *choose* a path and each path led to a different endpoint.

[@ChrlAltDlt]

Monkeys, scuffed graphics, lag, and an explanation of a real rocket that exploded. All key components of the BTD4 experience

[@B4gelll]

Real real

[@mudassirshaikh8662]

Mood

[@sooyster4033]

I did NOT expect to be suddenly watching a documentary on bit sizes and Aerospace Exploration, but I am totally here for it!

[@MackanRules]

:'D

[@deadlybasilisk74]

It’s just like the cooking video that cuts to the Vietnam war

[@Wizzkidwas]

8:00 As soon as something broke on 255 I immediately recognised the good ol' single byte integer number

[@Luwis1337]

Packman had 255 levels aswell if i remember

[@ZombieSlayerBO2]

@@Luwis1337 i didn't know PAC-MAN had other levels. Makes sense, PAC-MAN's 8-bit

[@Luwis1337]

@@ZombieSlayerBO2 Pacman has the screen where you pick up the dots. When you pick up all dots the screen resets. If you do that 255 times the 256 level/screen is full of glitches and graphic bugs

[@maxmcculley675]

The planes in this version did not have any footprint so you could place as many of them on the map as possible without running out of room. But it would mean you could not select some of them as they would overlap each other

[@enolopanr9820]

It was chaos. I remember filling the banana lakes map with buccaneers and filling the entire screen with monkey aces. Good times. The lag was pretty bad though even on easy mode. I usually played until it became a slideshow and my phone battery died because BTD absolutely ate up battery life.

[@spectre9065]

Common misconception. Planes did actually have a footprint. Try putting planes over land towers, its not that easy. However, you can place them over the path which you can't do with other towers.

[@rainbow_vader]

It's insane how since BTD4 each bloons game has had seemingly exponentially more content. Could you even imagine a BTD7? Considering BTD6 is still getting new content, i can't, but it's insane looking back and seeing how far it has come

[@MackanRules]

True!

[@ShaftyXD]

In one of the dev's podcast they pretty much said BTD7 will never happen so there's that

[@laytonjr6601]

The WOLF: contains 5 BAD and 2 TBC (TBC contain 10 DDT and regenerate 500 health per second)

[@FrostNapCat]

WOLF = World of large Forbiddening TBC = To be continued

[@rainbow_vader]

@@laytonjr6601 reminds me, a few years ago I came up with a concept for a new MOAB class bloon bigger than a B.A.D. Introducing, The F.A.T.A.S.S.: The Floating Astronomical Terrorizing Assault Ship of Suffering has 300,000 HP and contains 4 B.A.D. bloons

[@MidanMagistrate]

It's real funny, my dad used to do this casually when it came out. He'd just leave it running to get groceries or watch TV, and come back to the rounds still not being finished. If i remember correctly, his strat included way too many fully upgraded Mortars.

[@Pheminon1]

I remember I had BTD4 on my phone, and I basically had the entire screen covered in towers and I would just let me phone sit and run automatically because of how many towers I had. Since it was an iPhone 4S at the time, it eventually got to the point where 1 level would take 15 minutes with all the lag lol

[@GlennMBTD]

Great video but the part at the end is incorrect - there is no byte data type in flash and definitely not an unsigned one. The round is stored in an int(more specifically, 2 ints which average out to the actual number for anti-cheat reasons). There are 250 rounds because the rounds are hard coded into a 250 element array, after that the enter frame event is never able to complete because of exceptions(you can see them in a debug flash player). I don't know why it ended at 255 specifically for you but I was able to start at 249 and get to 260. Also - the game was made in 2009 and 3 bytes of storage relative to the entire game is not going to make a difference in performance considering that 4gb ram was fairly common then.

[@ionic7777]

Another thing you can do is infinitely stack planes. However it might be more lag intensive given how many projectiles get on the screen at once later on

[@valr2guy]

I miss abusing hotkys in this, going to set down roadspikes but clicking and hitting a tower hotkey at the same time letting you place towers on roads, or essentially bypassing large footprints by using smaller towers and then swapping as you click. Same could be done when upgrading then clicking a tower down at the same time, it gains that new tier of upgrading instead of being a fresh tower.

[@aliendude99]

Sucks hearing BTD 4 is now old school, grew up playing these games. I hate getting older 😭

[@JohnSmith-dy6sb]

Crazy to see that BTD4 has a limit of 250 rounds! Strangely enough, the limit was removed in the mobile version of BTD4, so it technically has infinite rounds, despite having mass slowdown in rounds 76 and beyond with the loads of BFBs rolling in.

[@nono_Hoi4]

old arcade games trying to get to lvl 255: Impossible please just stop playing BTD4: Here is your Medal: NULL

[@aidenation101]

This actually just gave me the wave of nostalgia of when I found out about the highest round of BO3 zombies being 255 as well, was not expecting that

[@Eric-cu3mw]

what a great quality for a video of our past, thank you for this high quality and entertaining videos Mackan. you're work is insane, thank you for your service to the commuinty.

[@MackanRules]

My pleasure!

[@Hoodieguy.]

@@MackanRules when is the next lucifers sanctum

[@SicopawEfeyester]

I played this game so much, I remember spending so much time beating all the maps and talking to all my friends, though back then I didn't really go into freeplay

[@bornonthebattlefront4883]

BTD2 & 3 are basically just updates to BTD1 I remember playing BTD3 a TON up until BTD4 came out, and we all started to try to unlock everything on there Then BTD5 came out and blew everyone’s minds BTD6 is such a polished and complete game, it’s crazy to see how far it’s come

[@TryHardCentral]

It's kinda easy if you're experienced to never die tbh. I remember once placing a sungod in every single possible place I could like he did while leaving some farms and also a shi ton of those airplanes as they could be placed infinently lmao

[@pickleman40]

It's crazy how far this series has came, i remember playing Bloons, and the first BTD. Kinda dawned on me recently just how popular it is now, blew my mind.

[@chickentechno3410]

Loved the video and it was really interesting with the "NULL" difficulty, challenge Idea: round ??? with only using the circles and centre structure of the map "X factor"

[@ed_cmntonly]

did not expect the video to turn into a deep explanation of computing and aerospace disasters; but nice

[@trollchristianjb1233]

Man i remember this game… one of my childhood games. Good memories

[@harelrubin1432]

I love that you sed the technical explaination without hand waving it

[@RedUnix]

this is one of the multiple examples of the byte count system, another famous case is the level 256 in Pac-Man, when half of the map disappears

[@addi3057]

Mackan is doing things that I didnt even thought of

[@Yrubully64GD]

think

[@phantomhiphop]

playing btd4? is that really praise worthy? he's playing a game

[@dxcvvxd]

@@phantomhiphop he isn't even the one doing it

[@phantomhiphop]

@@dxcvvxd doesn't change my point

[@NightSlash1298]

​@@phantomhiphopI know it's not Mackan but the person played for hours and hours so yeah it is praise worthy

[@megan00b8]

I really do wonder now, what about speedruns trying to get to null round as fast as possible. Of course we'd need some internal game clock reference to not make it hardware based, but basically it would be an interesting challenge of placement and minimising lag.

[@snapslingpeavine1371]

It’s funny how nearing the end of this video it almost feels like a vsauce video with the music, and education at play.

[@Jamestheking-yi1dh]

I’ve been watching from your first video and I love this type of content, I wish you good luck and hope you keep going. Maybe someday you can be on the level of SJB or ISAB edit: thank you for the highlight

[@MackanRules]

Thank you so much!

[@genio2509]

He is as good as them.

[@DictionaryBulletBill]

@@genio2509i think he means in terms of channel size/viewership

[@genio2509]

@@DictionaryBulletBill In that case yes.

[@Lt_Koro]

​@@genio2509in game skill probably worse than ISAB and being better than SJB is honestly not that hard.

[@infrences]

Bro how are your video ideas for late game so crazy and how are your videos so interesting lol

[@MackanRules]

Glad you like them!

[@haronka]

0:14 I actually remember it coming out

[@BlissBee]

You should cover the mobile version as the mobile version of btd4 does not have the round 255 limit

[@hardcore_rs]

That is some crazy dedication to set an alarm and stand up every night.. just crazy

[@plateterminator9994]

idea: how far can you get using only the prime number tiles on the map one two tree, great video btw

[@corvax8644]

You can easily get in the hundreds of rounds but I never could figure out how high exactly because the rounds take SO LONG past round 100

[@Lassoloc]

my friend and i once made it to about round 200 on btd4 ios on my old ipod touch. we could definitely have gone longer, but as you said the lag was unreal and rounds took an agonizing amount of time, and you couldn't have more than one saved game at the time. btd4 ios let you save in freeplay, but eventually i just wanted to start a new game.

[@Enderspearl184]

This limit doesn’t seem to exist in Apopalypse mode, since I made it to round 257 before selling everything and ending the game

[@sillyhypernova]

were u on mobile?

[@JoeDan54]

"It's nice to come back to these old school games and REALLY finish them." Amen.

[@theemicrowave0781]

I never thought that an episode of Bloons tower defense would go into rockets exploding

[@RandomBloonStuff]

I always wanted to know what’s after Round 250, thanks!

[@Uranium-jj7le]

2:58 I prefer the sounds in Older BTD games than in 6. It just sounds punchier

[@kerrywilson4629]

8:25 and Pac Man level 256.

[@Larchy]

I'd love to see more content like this

[@dwarfganon6900]

i tried doing late game in btd4 and spammed the entire map with sun avatars but there seemed to be a pierce problem, a lot of the monkeys were getting 0 pops and died around r80

[@ThePiplupGuy]

Dude got To round 117 before getting bored

[@shawnruby7011]

That's just lag

[@KiraAimz]

I'd love to see this but with BTD5 since in that game you can get into the thousands of round. I myself have even gotten to Round 1.500 with little experience

[@esrohm6460]

in other words every map has a secret medal in btd4. now the question would be for how many maps you can gain it

[@WingedEspeon]

We had different upgrade paths back in btd1, but they were removed by the time 4 hit but brought back for 5.

[@MadChristoph]

I remember playing this on Ninja Kiwi, but never got far or have a huge memory with it

[@autumn-876]

I remember playing btd4 on my grandma's ipad in like 2012, when I was but a wee lass. Good times

[@porkeyminch8044]

Who's the character in your pfp chilling with Garfield?

[@autumn-876]

@@porkeyminch8044idk I just saw it go hard as hell and thought oh fuck yes

[@porkeyminch8044]

@@autumn-876 Fair enough, that's understandable haha

[@ProjectBomby]

Did not expect to be told on the incident of that rocket that big bird declined

[@FrostNapCat]

As a kid I really wanted to pass round 250 but I couldn't even reach 90

[@Smietarroth]

Imagine someone skipping to the end just to see what round he got to just to see 8:40 and not knowing what is going on.

[@thebe_stone]

1:18 there actually were upgrade paths before 4, they just removed them in 4.

[@Baburun-Sama]

And then re-added in 5

[@BasicHorchata]

Btd4: can only handle up to round 255 Btd6: can handle up to round 609

[@Rilso]

for your next vid could you see the highest round you can get to on bloody puddles apopalypse? could be very interesting with how the map works

[@dzikidzikers4082]

7:58 what happens when we click "keep playing in Freeplay Mode"? Does it just start over again with no monkeys and default cash as we can see in the background here?

[@Da_biglm]

Good question and I want an answer

[@genio2509]

I've got that pop up from a glitch various times. It just breaks and you can't send rounds.

[@R-2500]

I remember a run I had back in the day where I used mainly Laser Cannon dartling gunners after it was released, got to round 140ish, around there

[@thetruth9651]

I used to play this and quit because I couldn’t lose. Just spammed sun gods. I remember being able to play my own music in game. Like my own jukebox. Never had a problem with later rounds, but played it early on so who knows.

[@camwoodstock]

"There are other examples of issues from computer storing too big a number inside too little..." Me, watching this video: "Oh, like the Pac-Man Killscreen on round 256?" "Take, for example, the Ariane 5 Disaster." ...I mean. That's not *wrong.* ;P

[@Digganigga35]

I went away from phone for a while and when i came back i see monkey game guy talking about rockets lmao

[@larsolaerts9078]

i played the ds version of this game and it looked a lot diffrent to the pc version. You could also place towers overlappen half their textures, i think you could get further on the ds

[@realPurpleOrb]

There was a ds version?

[@jr.c.4250]

​@@realPurpleOrbYeah it was Dsi wear so it sort of sucks lol

[@DrDrao]

In the mobile version, you can go significantly further. I don't know how much further, because I got bored before I got even close to losing, but a map filled with sun gods, buffed by villages, a few artic winds to slow down bloon innards, on daisy chain seems to be optimal. Ive done some testing with moab maulers and monkey apprentices, and there are situations where maulers might be superior. There might be a limit to how many times a bloon could be hit in a frame, and maulers seem to have a higher pierce limit. Monkey apprentices seem good for guarding against rouge bloons about to escape. It's possible that some number of maulers and apprentices might possibly replace some number of sun gods in an optimal setup. Another powerful tower is the ace, which while significantly weaker than other options, takes up no space on the map, leading to a theoretical infinite number on the map. It's probably not worth the lag, though.

[@nicathenoob19]

On mobile Bloons have no ramping at all, you can go forever

[@cactus_cuber1589]

I love this game the first Bloons game I played was btd4

[@PiotrBarcz]

Cool! I wish you were the one who played this though, I bet your video wouldn't have had the aspect ratio crushed like it did

[@BX56_YT]

This is *basically* the Bloons equivalent of those Arcade Kill Screens.

[@ShibaUnknown]

I wonder if the same is possible with the mobile version of the game. It might have different effects, as they didn't just port the original flash version, they completely made a better version than the flash original. So it might function differently once you get to the null part.

[@nicathenoob19]

yes, ive gotten to level 395 on the mobile version

[@Voxelroguery]

Pointing at the screen and jumping up and down and going "ooh ooh ohh!" 'cause I heard the number 255 (thats a power of two minus one)

[@totallyrealname8849]

This video is so creative

[@cilliwer123]

I played this game in like third grade omg the nostalgia.

[@CanalDoPhillipeMEME]

ok, im starting to love this video only because of the dramatic songs

[@chrypacz6594]

This guy literally beat free play

[@halcyonzomboid]

Thank you very much :)

[@pepitodelrancho]

the music choice here feels like a 2013 creepy pasta video haha

[@megan00b8]

What variable type is the BTD6 round number? If they just slapped an int in there I'll be disappointed, I really hope it's optimised with something like unsigned short.

[@julienbronsch5039]

(I have looked up the wiki article on the rounds in BTD6 and saw this) All rounds after 9,999 are preset. Rounds 10,000 and 10,006 have 100 fortified BADs, round 10,001 has 9,999 Fortified Ceramics and the rounds 10,002 - 10,005 have 100 of a non Fortified MOAB Class Bloons. Round 10,002 only has MOABs, 10,003 has only BFBs, 10,004 has only ZOMGs, and 10,005 has only DDTs. Rounds 10,006+ Bloon spawns are only limited to 100 Fortified BADs. The last round that bloon groups are defined for in freeplay is 10,133,701, however for whatever reason (most likely due to memory limitations), after round 429562, Bloons stop spawning and the rounds end immediately, up until round 859058, where it presumably loops in similar intervals of no bloons and the standard fortified BAD waves. Round 859,058-2,147,483,647 (100 Fortified BADs) Round 2,147,483,648+ (nothing because you’ve passed the integer limit)

[@Wxson_rl]

W video bro

[@Bringmehere]

7:58 keep playing on free play mode💀

[@Stagnated541]

The best content! I want to see btd5 - flash version

[@jezierskioliwier2212]

Well, I have ninja kiwi archive, so challange accepted

[@alphaundpinsel2431]

"Hmm yes today I will watch silly bloon video" "-and that's how the aryan 5 exploded"

[@edrickthegreat9497]

The mobile version might be different as i remember getting to round 240 with only toad spikes before

[@chesscake2641]

I’m guessing they used the 16 bit integer limit for BTD6. If so, you need to get to round 65535 to beat logs on null.

[@genio2509]

No, it was the 32 integer limit. It was known by getting 2 billion pops, but it is fixed. The round limit was 2 billion and a bit more, but now it is however many bits there are, wich idk.

[@KogasaTatara514]

​@@genio2509it's the 64 bit integer limit now. So, 9 quintillion and something

[@chesscake2641]

@@genio2509 some devs use different limits for different things, I’m guessing it’s considered a waste of space to use more than 16 bits on storing the level number, since it’s not even feasible to reach 65536 spamming next level on an uncappped race

[@genio2509]

@@chesscake2641 Yes, I just remembered bloons rounds differently. After a look on the wiki, rounds 10006-429561 are 100 Fortified BADs and 429562-859057 Nothing and then all rounds up to the 32 bit limit, on wich they stop. Apparently changed from the last time I checked. Can you explain this?

[@commander3494]

I assume the round numbers are just normal 32 bit ints, because... its a single number per game, those 16 bits arent gonna make a difference when compared to how many numbers there are in the rest of the game

[@wasd1500]

My highest wave I've ever gotten was round 164 I just spamed Sun super monkeys and bomb towers

[@herramader]

Congrats on having this be your 69th (nice) video

[@Memekki]

Crazy to think I had a single apocalypse run going for 3 weeks on my ipod touch, couldn’t know what round I was on because I only checked in the morning & evening and one day it crashed I guess

[@ianfarris9396]

Dang didn't realize about the rocket that's crazy

[@megaweasel706]

I remember getting to a high enough round in 4 that it was basically just painful white nose every round

[@littletweeter1327]

What a great nostalgia trip

[@StillRc9o1]

could you please do this for btd5 next? id love to see it id be really cool

[@Malttis]

You should try bloons tf 5 its pretty fun and theres not that Much lag

[@heididiaz1026]

Macken rules I love your content and keep up the great videos. A video idea is new vs old towers in btd6 so like for new towers it would be druid alch beast handler and Geraldo and for old towers it would be dart tack ice bomb super and Quincy.

[@heididiaz1026]

The reason I have Quincy is because he is the oldest hero

[@heididiaz1026]

I made it to round 140 with the oldest towers

[@Xhadp]

Ah BTD 4, pretty sure most of us played it on our mobile devices rather than large screens. I remember when Maulers were OP followed by the boats or you can just farm like crazy for sun god spam, did that a couple of times. Also, pretty sure this is where the NAPFRILLS stuff came from that mainly banned the OP farms that led to the eventual CHIMPs mode everyone knows about today.

[@fr0ntend]

what about bloons td 5? after the hangar ship glitch got patched i'm pretty sure after round 1000 is impossible / very very hard. I made it to round 1000 and had to constantly use the super monkey special power to even survive. As shown in my video :)

[@TylerCubeRBLX]

you can place infinite aces in btd 4 since they have no footprint in this game

[@GoatingVirtual]

BTD 4 is complete...now BTD 5

[@JoelTheParrot]

yo that's hype nah, nah, bloons td 4 sfx are pure nostalgia, and thus of the highest quality >=( wait, so what does continuing on freeplay after clearing null do? just bring you back to round 1?

[@Felix-sl2hw]

Might just crash tbf

[@JoelTheParrot]

@@Felix-sl2hw lol would be cool to know tho

[@MackanRules]

I have no idea tbh! :p

[@JoelTheParrot]

@@MackanRules welp, guess i'll get to work! /j

[@futurelucky1365]

We need this on BTD5

[@leolam1028]

Legends says he didn’t use auto clicker to start rounds

[@s0nic_readwrite]

my personal belief is that after round 250 the reason there's no bloons is because the monkeys made them extinct