HOW GOOD ARE THESE CARDS? - THE PLAY TO WIN PODCAST

Dylan and Cam talk cards that sometimes see play in cEDH and rank them to see how good they are
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[@GreenNightlight]

I always love how prepared and focused these podcasts are, you can tell they do a lot of prep work 🤣

[@ghost64626]

I love how quickly the reading of the $50 Patrons delvs into complete nonsense lol

[@jmarksthespot]

I have always thought podcasts need more long countdowns, you guys are really revolutionizing the medium

[@CherryDad]

God the chemistry you two have is so infectious, love watching you guys more than any EDH content

[@williambosma8726]

Another silence effect that I personally think should see more play is Calamity’s Wake. Only hits non creature spells for the effect, but exiling graveyards is pretty nifty

[@damo9961]

Its good in decks that win with creatures only - like Shalai and Halar, and Heliod. Two mana is steep though.

[@hesnotbad9045]

Doesn’t stop thoracle, is symmetrical. Bad

[@williambosma8726]

Okay

[@velocevisrin5060]

@@damo9961 also legit in rocco

[@Dracomandriuthus]

​@@hesnotbad9045"cast Thoracle" "in response calamity's"

[@jasonandrews1770]

Saw in half is by far one of my fave cards now. Its good and funny

[@qynbyrne2964]

Thank you for reading the main cards when possible. I'm familiar with a lot of the cEDH cards now, but I always love when things can be more accessible for beginners, which I was not too long ago. Reading the card that is being discussed helps less experienced players understand the card, and not get it confused with a similarly named card, when listening to this podcast without the video. Thank you guys for another excellent podcast and video

[@raulluna5845]

I love the different Counts!!! Cam and Dylan you always make my day very enjoyable when you release the podcast! Please never stop hahahaha

[@salchi-papa]

In regards to Forbidden Orchard in Najeela, I think it works better in a faster list so you can guarantee you can activate her ability. But the drawback of giving someone a creature is definitely not fun. I run it in my list and I haven't found it to be TOO much of an issue, but I've already slotted in all the rainbow lands you would run in cEDH.

[@RaiderX7997]

I also run it in mine. Normally I focus on just never giving one player a spirit so that specific player is always open for Najeela swings. Most stax decks with a few exceptions are good decks imo to give the spirit to since they are almost always going to have blockers anyway

[@MufasaTheMan]

New video = new comment stating that this is the best channel/podcast out there for cEDH. I will not be taking any questions.

[@Customerbuilder]

I like that you read the cards. Helps w/ podcast format, I think. Since, I'm usually driving.

[@kinginthenorth1437]

In reguards to Lim-Dul's Vault. The top of your library is going to be cards in your deck; would you rather the next 4 cards be 4 random cards or you get to stack 4 random cards in the order that is least bad if your win attempt fails and you're actually going to draw them. Also it interacts really well with cantrips if you have the mana to cast them.

[@wtgibs91]

Seriously love these podcasts. Really adds to the gameplay videos. Good stuff

[@CaptainQbvious]

The only channel I follow on yt that I instantly click (and enjoy) when a video releases. Keep up the good work!

[@joeyblackard6346]

Hey you guys are still doing great things for people feeling a little sad. I love you guys and hope to see you randomly somewhere so I can buy you food 🤘🏻

[@oldbordergeek]

I love saw in half with the hoarding broodlord, such a fun combo

[@AirBEARist]

It was cool meeting you guys in Minneapolis, keep up the good content!

[@geoffreygarfein9169]

Bois, I quit magic for awhile but I’m now fully back in. Catching up on all the shit I missed that you all posted. Keep it up!

[@kennethritacco6959]

Love this, love you guys, want/need more content

[@heirkaiba]

I actually use Hydroblast in my Yarok deck......... only because I lost my mindbreak trap ;-;. And it has helped some times. But it should be less than 1 more like a .5.

[@Eric_theMAD_King]

Great episode!

[@jamallynch1218]

Idk what it is but play to win is always on time every time I wake up looking for something good to watch play to win pops up with something new

[@craigarndt1325]

You can Saw In Half an opposing Kiki. Kiki will make 2 copy and die as a legend to state based effects. You can do it on any opposing legend, you just need to be mindful of ETB and Death Triggers because you don’t want to target an opposing Kokusho and get hit for 15 and give your opponent 45 life. But you can use it on your own legends with ETBs or Death Triggers, and it goes infinite at instant speed with Dualcaster mage (you don’t get haste like Twinflame does but you can do it at your last opponents endstep and get the same effect).

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

True, but the Kiki can still go off for infinite, so it doesn’t really stop the combo

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Oh wait you are right!!! The Kiki copy is a token so you can’t flicker it, but you can still win with Village Bellringer

[@jackrosen1]

Underrated part of forbidden orchard is giving tokens to your opponents in order to help beat down the ad nauseam player

[@philipptenelsen4755]

I played Arbor elf along three visits and nature's lore in a razaketh tasigur deck. 9 fetches, 4 duals and shocklands, plus the 2 rampants made this a good choice. Elves were in the deck instead of rocks because of Razaketh and Ouphe. The downside was that everyone else was playing rocks and they tend to focus on getting a sweeper which killed ouphe and a few of my mana along as well, which lead to losing games afterwards. Long story short - not playing elves anymore.

[@batboibob4910]

Forbidden Orchard is so sweet in that it can give your opponents blockers for opposing Tymnas

[@daltynfowler364]

Started counting from 10! I fricken lost it 😂😂😂

[@Arsenjohn]

I too have been using it with dockside!!!!! Well done

[@Arsenjohn]

Saw in half*

[@doug2464]

I listened to this whole thing with Mr Jones by Counting Crows in the background on repeat, if you guys could do that for every episode I'd really appreciate it!

[@arisespiritu4162]

Saw in half is sick! Use it in my Korvold and Krrik.

[@eric.ingram]

It was stupid cool to see you both at MagicCon23. Keep up the great work.

[@Kallistosprom]

Total madness, great episode.

[@alanschellenberger9356]

the reason i prefer lim duls vualt over wishclaw is that if i wishclaw and then dont win immediately, i probably just gave someone else the game. but with lim duls i can go find exactly what i need and it doesnt help anyone else

[@isaacweber8289]

Teasing the inevitable wheel episode again

[@SamuraiMTG]

I died when you started counting down from 10...and it only got better!

[@SteveJobbed]

Carpet of flowers does have the downside of a do nothing in some pods, but for me in my korvold deck the reward outweighs the risk. If nobody's playing blue, I can just put it down and sacrifice it when I swing with korvold to draw a card. If someone's playing blue, it puts me far enough ahead to match with most blue players.

[@VampiricGamess]

I use defense grid with the new urabrask and I feels pretty good every time I see it in the early game.

[@bend5963]

Y’all are sleeping on lim-dul’s vault. It’s an instant speed tutor for anything that gets around Oppo/Archivist and has the added benefit of being able to stack your next 4 draws. It gets even better if you can draw the card you put on top right away or shuffle away the other 4 on top with a fetch land if they aren’t useful. If Ad Naus isn’t your main strategy, Vault seems like an autoinclude.

[@stefanentzeroth9027]

Ive been to a tournament multiple times that has sideboards, and honestly it was nice for removing dead cards like carpet, reb etc. only a few players tried using wish cards and it was not game breaking etc. and honestly it never impacted games very much. it just made some decks play a little more smooth, with less dead draws

[@drunklog1crecords144]

Arbor elf in Rocco is pretty decent

[@mthlay15]

Nice

[@jtshorten6822]

When I was playing Urza I always hated that Karn, the great creator couldn’t pull a piece from exile if I accidentally put a key piece there with Urza’s ability. I like the idea of allowing such cards to pull cards that you have exiled from your deck I’m just not sure how it would go over with DCon or Tainted Pact 🤔

[@jorjor500]

I think board clears in general are undervalued in a lot of Cedh decks. I’m not saying people should be running tons, but having 1-2 ways to clear the board has saved me more times than I can count. Creatures are becoming more and more prevalent, and being able to have a 2-3 mana reset button is super strong.

[@Rolandoldaccount]

"...there's a smokey haze in the room...don't worry about that..." LMAO

[@Hitzel]

I've been running stifle over hydroblast in midrange and it's got good targets every game while still hitting dockside.

[@robertwhite1221]

At 1:36, Cam looks down at his wrist and says "It's 6:45" but he isn't wearing a watch...GOTCHA!

[@SpencerMTG]

What do you guys think about misdirection as another free “counter”spell?

[@liamw.1313]

The dog in the background is so cute 16:02

[@omegasybers1110]

Arbor Elf is viable as long as you are not in 3+ colors and not playing Tainted Pact or Hermit Druid. And that is a tall task to ask for most modern cEDH decks

[@rentabuddha]

I've put hyrdoblast AND blue elemental blast in recently and have yet to be disappointed. There are plenty of sans-blue decks running around but the amount of sans-red decks are very low. Maybe it's just my local meta, but if you let dockside resolve, there's so many ways to bounce it that I'd still rather just counter the dockside. You guys always playing against Kinnan might also be warping your perspective. Not sure! Love CEDH for the meta calls haha.

[@caspergarner]

i love saw in half in my korvold list

[@pabis6817]

Such a fun video made me late for work! Then again That could just be procrastination or dread…. Idk

[@Iheartvengeance]

Smashed my pods last night, winning first with tymna tana, then winning turn 4 with narset

[@NT_Escanor]

I think Dillon was thinking about the artifact mages

[@boyboi5439]

Im rocking Wanderung arcaic in kinnan and think its pretty nice

[@jujobaco]

Dylan needs to know his wolf cut is killer

[@mitsosoftheelves]

Do agree about sideboards!

[@booyaimnotfirst]

Does saw in half targeting thoracle combo the way i think it does?

[@darkdragonXD1]

Love this episode , rate new braids( in the 99) next time and if rate low her ill dare to play some games :P

[@MasterDecoy1W]

Dylan wishing to re-open the Pandora's Box of Cunning Wish and I'm just on the sidelines in my evil robes "DEW IT!"

[@bensteinhauser784]

It's interesting how Dylan flames LDV but loves Doomsday.

[@SouDeAveiro]

It might not be a conventional thought, but I look at displacer kitten sort of like Food Chain. They both generate loops and require 2 cards to function. Food Chain need the loop enabler and the payoff and so does displacer kitten. Displacer is more expensive and weaker to interaction in my opinion. Food chain has the possibility of being used for mana in a piece and displacer can be used for incremental value in terms or mana or ETBs depending on board state. I think the cards belong under the same sort of umbrella even though they function differently and require different pieces.

[@damo9961]

Both of those cards are basically 1 card combos with Atraxa. Food Chain helps you cast off a dork, then if you have spare mana you can exile her and play her again, digging 20 and drawing 10. Then sack her again for 8 mana. Its why she doesn't run Ad Naus.

[@benitoguison]

displacer kitten + coveted jeweled has pretty good chance at drawing your deck out though :) (there are 3 card combos but that's already too much IMO)

[@arturstasienko2234]

Toxic deluge is a card I don't like, but it over preforms each time I play it.

[@diegosarceno8936]

I play hydroblast in Orvar hehe

[@Balthukkazor]

Re: Toxic Deluge vs Damn conversation -- How do you boys feel about Winds of Abandon ? I Love that it is asymetrical ( sorecery speed is rough though).

[@rodneyyapi5014]

Hydro blast does less than spell snare in most scenarios based on reason for use or "main targets"

[@unnoticed67]

I'm only 3 minutes into the video. How long will it take to go over 35 cards? 3 Minutes into the video and the boys decide to count down from 10 to reveal their scores. How is this only 54 minutes long? That's a miracle. Great job as always lol

[@larstomich2462]

How do I get thos proxys you guys use

[@SethG27]

Haven’t seen this on Apple Podcasts yet. It normally goes on after a few minutes.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Unfortunately we’ve had a delay and it will be up there when we return from MagicCon Minneapolis

[@mightyone3737]

I feel like Kitten is a 4, but maybe it is a 3 because it's just so janky in most of it's combos? The thing I notice with it is that there are so many different playable cards that can work with it. Defense Grid is a weird card that I'm not sure if I want to run, it's great to protect a combo I guess, but adding 2 to your combo also sucks for a tax effect, I still feel like Wandering Archaic is a much better cEDH card. I love Grid in Casual decks that aren't in good colours for instants, but if people use combos you are super screwed if you don't win the turn you play Grid. I like your rating of 2, there are decks that should run it, but not many. The problem with Daze is that there are probably 5 better 1 mana counters, and 4(ish) free counters. I think it's fine in a deck with lots of colours because you play so many Fetches in a deck like that (to find your duals), and the first dual you usually want is going to be one with Blue, like a Tropical Island. While I agree that 'someday' there are going to be enough free counters to not want 1 mana counters, we are a very long way from there if your deck actively wants counters (you need ~10 copies of a card to have good odds of getting it in your opener, there aren't 10 free counters so people run plenty of 1 mana counters in certain decks). I feel like Daze is like 2 or 3 in some decks, but it's way too cheap to just pay it's tax. Dismember is a reasonable card, I just feel like there is also Snuff Out and Deadly Rollick that outmode it, and most people don't run tons of removal. I feel like if you have White there is no chance you're running Dismember, but I guess in Grixis I'd run it? I don't see Dismember much, but I don't study Grixis lists often. Considering how many better options exist (if you're after small creatures I feel like Vendetta is what you actually want? both require mana). Probably give this a 1 or a 2, but with White there are just such better options. Timetwister seems like a strong effect, but I don't like Wheels in most decks, you just dump resources on people with it. I'd give a 2 or a 3 in terms of actual power, it's fine if you need this exact effect for some reason, but it's rare to want it even. Abrade is a bad card isn't it? I guess it's versatile so it's great in mono-Red, but if you have any other colour there are better options to choose from I think. I'd give this a 1 or 2. Wandering Archaic is incredible value in the right deck, it's a huge and brutal stax piece that makes it VERY hard for anyone else to win, if you run this in a pod that's light on interaction it's a terrible card, but if your pod is more cutthroat than most, then Wandering Archaic is a card that you not only want, but you want to get Greaves on it. I'd give this a 3 because it has terrible pods, but it's better the more serious your pod is. Resculpt is better than Abrade, but a 4/4 is a problem for some decks (either as an attacker or blocker). It's versatile and cheap removal in Blue, so I'd give it at least a 3, but I don't run it myself since I already run a bunch of removal, but I do think I could be wrong, Exile is REALLY GOOD potentially. Resculpt gets worse the more colours you have, but it's amazing in mono-Blue. Necro is a great card, but it can be so-so if your deck needs *all the cards*, not just a handful. It's great in a Zur Control deck, because you can take 10 the first turn to make a great hand, then spend subsequent turns topping your hand up, I think if you try to play Necro as a 'win on the spot' card you're going to lose a LOT of games because it just can't draw enough cards for that, it's not Ad Naus or Peer. Did you SERIOUSLY argue that Rhystic Study is better than Necropotence? You have to turn in your cEDH card! Anyways, I'd give Necro a 4 or 5 in decks built to use it (like Zur Control and essentially nothing else), but yeah, it might be a 3 because it attracts attention in some groups. This makes me think of Wandering Archaic, it's a card that's best in a pod that understands it's not the best card around, and don't freak out because you've got Necro, but if your group goes bonkers and swings at only you, and you could never have drawn many cards than it feels more like a 2, maybe even a 1? I should also run Toxic Deluge, I'm too light on wipes at this point, and this is the best creature wipe. I think I'd give it a 4 probably, most decks should just run it and be done with it. Fire Covenant is a sick card if people run weenie decks, but if you need to kill 2 Winotas and a Najeela with it you would have just Deluged and been happier. Phyrexian Purge is also worth a look if you're fine paying life and have Rakdos colours, 4 mana is a lot but wiping out the stuff you want is really good if your deck is remotely 'fair' and you don't want to lose your board to a wipe. I guess I see your point here though, where stuff like this is a bit of a meta call, and isn't universally desired. Containment Priest seems like a too narrow stax effect, so I don't run it, but yeah it'd be nice to have out vs Winota, if only because they'd have to spend their Swords on Priest instead of Zur, which can let me win. Mindbreak Trap is a card I'm not familiar with, but I love that card. The free clause matters enough to make me think this would be a 3 or 4 pretty easily. Wheel of Misfortune is terrible, Winds seems much better. I would run Magus of the Wheel of Misfortune, the true misfortune is having to draw it. I feel like it's a solid 0. Hydroblast is a funny card, it's fine if your in mono-Blue and you want to hate on Red a bit, it's not a great card. Seems like a 1. Lim-Dul's Vault seems fine, but there are just so many more tutors that are available in these colours. I could see it being a 2, but it's a lot of life to pay for card disadvantage as you guys note. Carpet of Flowers is fine, but it's not an auto-include. It's also not a creature, and Green likes to use bodies to do stuff because it has endless creature tutors (everyone else says anyways, I think it definitely has some), so an Enchantment kind of sucks in many ways. I'd say it's probably a 3, but if your area doesn't run lots of Blue (isn't cutthroat) then it's openly awful. Peer is nice because it's a flat rate of half your life, it's never more, but 7 mana is a lot of mana. I could see this being a 3 or 4, but it's solidly worse than Ad Naus so it can't be a 5, but I think it's more universally playable than Necro. I wouldn't play Forbidden Orchard unless I need an opponent to have a body, it can burn you really badly, what if there are 3 Tymna decks? Just yuck. I didn't want to run it in my cEDH deck, and that deck didn't even run Fetches (and thus loved 3 colour untapped lands period), but my cEDH deck didn't like extra aggro kicking around since it's bad at blocking. I'd give it a 0 or 1 I think, too many decks are hungry for bodies. Basics are decent cards, but without Fetches they feel ungodly bad. In my proxy-using cEDH deck I run 3 Basics, and I might cut all 3 for better duals. I think a 2 or 3 seems reasonable, you should never have 0 Basics IMHO because of cards that force you to look for one, losing games because your Commander got Path'd and you didn't have a Basic to help recast them feels like badness. Saw in Half is a cool card, imagine if you cast one on a Wandering Archaic! 2 without Archaic in the deck, 4 with it (or maybe that Dragon haha).

[@SaintJimmy36]

"welcome to play to win, where we play to win, and that means always cutting wheels"

[@erik556]

need some dry erase boards 👌🏼

[@TripsAhoy]

Counting down from 146 would have been forever! Lol. ❤

[@dwaynepool]

Damn Dillion that mullet looking nuts

[@FuturePreference]

I have a question to you guys. You said you don't want sideboards in CEDH, but I've seen you take out Red Elemental Blast, out of your decks, because no one was running blue for example. That's a form of sideboarding no?

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Technically yes? We only do that for new set release games tho, not a regular occurrence

[@FuturePreference]

@@PlaytoWinMTG Thanks for the answer! I didn't realize it was a rare thing to test new commanders, makes sense in that context for sure =) You guys rock!

[@funsponge9099]

I think the best use ive seen for time twister is on turn 1 so u screw over ur opponents mulligans

[@toctheyounger]

'what Tyler's done' 😂😂😂😂😂

[@Chase0313]

Yo Dil, you look like a blast from the past! (90's kid) 😂😂😂

[@Vuietnam]

Babe wake up, it's time to Pog for new PTW podcast

[@daithomas1430]

I would love to see a podcast with your thoughts on other competitive 100 card formats, such as Canadian Highlander, it would be great seeing your initial impressions and how you adapt to that different format

[@winniebowser4447]

Dylan: *Says the exact name of a card* Also Dylan: I have no idea what it’s called

[@dasfabelwesen]

Lim duls vault won me so many games. It is just better than imp seal. Can be pitched to forces and when you cast it there are times when it feels like a double tutor or a brainstorm and imp seal in one. I even used it to see that thassas isnt in my top 5 in order to consult for the win.

[@arisespiritu4162]

Wheels are not bad. Just need to know when to use them. Obviously dont use this if you are in a favourable hand state

[@kaoticcypher9796]

Hoping gilded drake is in the next one.

[@liampierce8607]

Hydro blast also gets godo

[@ReyaadawnMTG]

playing with Oracle of the Alpha in Arena really showed me how bad Timetwister is compared to all the other Power.

[@VictorLuisAngelical]

Play Korvold, Play dockside, saw in half dockside = Profit

[@SDTCG]

I, too, am a Forbidden Orchard hater.

[@janmelantu7490]

There’s nothing worse than Getting Path to Exiled and having no Basics to fetch.

[@jaredarquette6320]

Lim-dil vault is good in ukkima food chain

[@w34rt5]

The Patreon ready should be a done backwards one time

[@Gusta_Gustav]

Feels like all wheels are either a very niche card or cards that absolutely destroy the format because of cards like hullbreacher or leovold that break the cards. Here's to see if orkish bow masters gets banned similarly, but I think it's currently fair enough in the format to avoid it for now

[@coltonjudge7823]

Carpet of flowers has let me down so much

[@WoodyIVv]

The mic is still upside down!!!

[@jankzgsoldier9396]

Dismember also doesn't kill GITROG🤪

[@roycho87]

daze, you forget returning a land to hand. Mystic sanctuary anyone? missed your land drop? don't worry you have a LAND IN YOUR HAND NOW, cast it again and get that new blue mana. the counter is only half the benefit.

[@jackslash9936]

Cam: I would play boreal druid over arbor elf anytime. Also Cam: literally has arbor elf and no boreal druid in his rocco deck lol 😆

[@robbiehardy3228]

You guys are doofuses, and I love it To be clear, I only mean the intro with the number signs lol

[@kaijukraken]

Daze with no lands in play > wandering archaic 🙏

[@damo9961]

ONE PUNCH MAN SEASON 3 IS ON THE WAY!