How Good is the F-4S Phantom ACTUALLY?

[@TheDAWinz]

Your segment on thrust to weight reminded me of the Soviet tests of the F-5 where they just initially believed the 21bis would win every time due to the higher thrust to weight, but were shocked when it was the opposite in a dogfight.

[@LegitoTV]

I bought this in order to level up the US tree. Having 0 experience with jets the first 300 matches were rough. I was cursing and hating this plane, until at some point I started gaining gamesense. Two months after purchasing the plane I can honestly say that I love it and it's probably my favorite plane. Using it, I have unlocked the F-14B and the F16 and the experience the F-4S has given me has made me a good player! I am consistently having 3+ kill games! 10/10 would grind US tree with it again.

[@gladiator_games]

Nice.

[@norezi8130]

I am on your state right now, with sparrows not working, constant upttiers Vs Su-27 and so on. It's pain

[@pitot0philo207]

​@@norezi8130 Me either bro

[@whydoyouneedtolive7498]

basically if a f4j and an f4e had a baby

[@loisopipvjbjy]

Its just a never version of the F4J with more maneuverability

[@kajmak64bit76]

​@@loisopipvjbjyso you're saying it's an F-4J with agile eagle slats and stuff from F-4E Almost like it's a baby of F-4J and F-4E lol

[@loisopipvjbjy]

@@kajmak64bit76 Yes

[@alexignat007]

As an F4s player(654 battles 53%wr) i can say its pretty decent, you wont turn fight anyone cuz you are a brick. Most of your kills will come from the Sparrows and you will die a lot

[@cookiecraze1310]

Agreed, 7F's and PD can carry any plane. I've found that you can also dogfight but only on super low fuel. At 2-6 minutes left you start being able to pull weird AOA.

[@blown70charger99]

I pre ordered it when the t was first coming out and I do not regret it, had a 4 kill game last night followed by a 5 kill game, absolutely blasting through the research especially with a premium account. Sparrows are a little inconsistent tho, sometimes it locks immediately and even kills after lock breaks, and other times I can’t lock a guy who’s 5 miles out and I get slapped

[@ExecutivePuma]

really helpful video and got straight to the point. do you have a video on tips for the f4s, and if not do you plan on making one?

[@perennialE]

I'll have to add that to my list of videos to make when I get home :)

[@ExecutivePuma]

@@perennialE oh yeah no worries mate thanks again

[@nxblecesarz]

what makes it better is that basically every player thinks you're dogshit so you can get some good kills for free because the other players just mindlessly launch a missile thinking you wont know how to counter it

[@freezedvegetal]

I am slightly late, but good video. The only feedback that I would give is that the transition into the 2nd and 3rd sections was a little jarring, and the rest could use some quiet background music, but other than that really good video. This is some high quality content sir

[@perennialE]

Noted. I actually do have quiet background music! It's just uh... a little too quiet. Always a learning experience :)

[@freezedvegetal]

@@perennialE I just realized now lmao. Other than that great video, very well written and engaging

[@thegenericguy8309]

I've always been driven nuts by what Gaijin did to the F-4 and MiG-23 series as implemented. The 23 was literally developed as a Soviet Phantom, they're perfect contemporaries. And the F-4S and MiG-23MLD are both, respectively, end of service upgrades that squeezed a tiny bit more dogfight performance out of the platform. But one's prem and one's tech tree. I just. Fucking why. I want my tech tree Soviet MiG-23ML and MiG-23MLA and I want the differences between them to be actually shown. The prem ML is especially funny because the MiG-23MLA was literally an upgrade to give the ML R-24 compatibility but in-game because money the ML can totally carry R-24s haha Also the 23M, which would have been a perfect F-4E contemporary that trades less ordnance and CMs for lookdown/shootdown, but instead they gave it R-60Ms to 'balance' it, then overtiered it because it had R-60M, and never corrected it. I want my ~10.3-10.7 struggle bus ffs Also also the choice between flare pylon and drop tank is insanely stupid. The entire point of the belly flare dispenser was to integrate a flare pylon and drop tank pylon. First press of the countermeasures button would drop your drop tank, then it'd be a CM strip. But no if it has a belly tank you can't have flares. So fucking stupid. Also also also WHY THE FUCK DOES EVERYTHING HAVE R-13M1S. Those were. Never exported and very rare because they were considered inferior to the R-60 and so saw VERY limited production. But in WT literally everything has them. But the actual R-13M, which was ubiquitous and commonly exported, was pretty much just flat out removed. And we don't even have the R-55, which was for the first couple years of production pretty much the standard armament of the MiG-21Bis until the R-60 and R-13M were commonly available. At this point we'll probably get the R-14 before the R-73 I swear to fucking god I hate Gaijin so fucking much it's unreal

[@AkiUwUx3]

I swear Gaijin will find a way to implement the R-37 hypersonic Air to Air missile before anything we actually want Because "balance" and then hyper undertier it and sell it as a $70 premium

[@thegenericguy8309]

@@AkiUwUx3 More specifically they'll implement R-37 before R-33, reduce R-33 to a footnote and ignore it, and ignore AIM-120B in the same way in favor of giving everything C-5s at minimum

[@AkiUwUx3]

@@thegenericguy8309 true

[@pestomystic]

Driven a lot of the MiG-23's, and kind of fell in love. 23M with R-13M's and R-23's, plus a fix to the drop tank/flare strip, at 10.7 would be the GOAT.

[@thegenericguy8309]

@@pestomystic 23M was introduced after the base R-60, so it should get them too, but otherwise yeah

[@thehardman9379]

Ive never had a problem with the gun pod, its always done the job when ive gotten into that range

[@danielcamacho1913]

7:44 "As a newer player, if you really do wanna pick it up..." it probably shouldn't be your next plane after the P-26. If it's your next plane after the P-26, you have a lot of keybinds to assign and practice, and you should spend a lot of time practicing with custom battles (and I've only found this one Syria scenario where the bots will all fly jets) and Air Assault. And when you play Air Assault, be prepared for your teammates to judge you when you have an F-4s, 8 decent missiles, and the lowest score on the team.

[@ricolives1166]

I have the F4S and I honestly love it

[@wicked-w7l]

the upward flares are amazing when flaring front-aspect missiles

[@AviationNerd006]

i got a drone age ad while watching this

[@perennialE]

You cant escape them

[@VickyHong1879]

I love it, it’s basically a free kill for my J-7e

[@sosbabe2804]

Same f4s players are so bad ez kill with my sky flash in my ja37C.

[@perennialE]

Yeah a lot of F-4S players dont have any spacial awareness

[@stfuandstopcrying]

literally relying on people being bad to get a kick of adrenaline lol, without all these bad players every game you either get zero kills or you get one kill and die because everyone else is just as good as you

[@doubledekercouch]

From what ive been able to gather it counts towards unlocking the next rank too, meaning that you don’t need to research the attacker or bomber trees

[@perennialE]

Yep, premiums count towards the requirement to unlock the next rank. Pay to progress at its finest.

[@doubledekercouch]

@@perennialE yeah, it’s not as if you need to unlock atleast 5-6 planes like rank 6 either

[@stfuandstopcrying]

@doubledekercouchyou do now, i have the f4s and i can’t get the rank 5 cuz i only have 2 rank 4s lol

[@CorneliusTheWizardDog]

I wish we got the F4N, the army variant of the F4S with an internal gun, it would be amazing

[@strf90105]

I'm so spoiled from the HMD. Now when I fly the jets I ground for with the F-14, I miss the HMD.

[@UchihaMadaraGr]

I don't have it , i have F-4J though which is pretty similar...except the slats, but i can understand the difference. The bad thing is , even if it has HMS, it doesn't have AIM-9L. If they give it 9L , it can be quite capable even in they up-rate it to 11.7 . And as it is now it can work in "sweeping" runs well enough. The WVR/BFM part, which it is bad against most planes 11.3+ , it counts more towards the end of the match. You won't find yourself locked in BFM until the lobby is at least down to 1/3 ... and even with planes that have the capability you should avoid it because you'll be exposed as long as you get low/slow... Pretty good for grinder if you ask me. The bombload can be great for multi-role in EC maps at least, where you'll have the time to unload...get bit lighter from fuel as well and get in for the extra RP/SL ,while already getting the standard from the base.

[@CorneliusTheWizardDog]

I would love to have 9L's on it, in exchange for 11.7, since you basically face 12.0 every match anyway

[@mdk03]

With regards to the gun I've gotten a few pretty good gun kills in the F-4S. Usually it's when I can get a good shot on them using the radar gunsight or I'm decently close behind them

[@kubasjtCZ]

bro did that guy dirty

[@CircuitCatWT]

Based perennial upload + spinning tonk = best F-4S video

[@killroy1117]

Pereneal E

[@jedbedrock2944]

For anyone seeing this 5 months later. I picked up this plane as my first jet, yes it is one of the best 11.3 premiums and i dont regret my purchase. But due to the new planes as of December 2023, i have been food. Im not a skilled player, and as such i can say. If you want a grinder plane to get to US top tier, this plane will do it. If you can bomb a base and get 1 lucky air kill per game. Then this plane is great. And yes your flares are working, just the top ejection takes skill to use.

[@randomhawky978]

ima just wait till aniversary sale

[@josjas7025]

What would you say is the most fun rank 6/7 sl grinder?

[@perennialE]

MiG-21S. 10.3 engine at 9.7.

[@bigmcjones230]

Still absolutely wounds me that Prems are 70 dollars now. Ive spent a lot of money in this game sure but 70 dollars for one vehicle???

[@ElijahRobinson-t6j]

Ik this comment is old but u get 20 days prem and 2500 eagles along with it

[@thelethalpredator672]

Alright, im currently rank 6 US, have the f104a. A10(premium) and the a4e squadron. Would you think this would be better than f5c to get for grinding the rest of the TT? I plan to probably wait for the sale instead of outright spending $70 for it as thats just very expensive. I doubt by the time its on sale ill have top tier jets simply because im not that good and i dont grind warthunder 24/7. Also the colt guns id assume are much better now after the realshatter patch

[@limyarplane1991]

i haven't played the f4 but i would say it kind of depends what you are looking for. if you want a jet that is really good at getting gun kills and dogfighting f5c all the way. if you want a jet that fly's like a train but has amazing missiles but mediocre gun's and dog fighting capability's the f4 phantom

[@perennialE]

Finish out what you can with the A-10 and buy a talisman for the F-8E Crusader. It'll be cheaper and still a very good plane to finish out the tech tree with.

[@perennialE]

The Colts are fine... if you have 4 of them. The F-4S suffers from firing single rounds of Colt ammo at a time, while also not having Vulcan level firerate. It could be worse like it was with realshatter, but it could be better.

[@No1harris_98]

Perennial E gaming

[@perennialE]

Truer words have never been said

[@No1harris_98]

@@perennialE I only spread truth and prosper

[@saika4043]

From when is footage and script exactly? They recently did actually improve realsh*tter and alot of guns tend to just nuke planes and i assume that'd include the Colts too

[@perennialE]

The Colts still do pretty bad damage, this is post realshatter. More an issue of firing a single 20mm round at a time without having Vulcan level firerate.

[@saika4043]

@@perennialE oh alright.. just sad, Colts were actually pretty good before realshatter..

[@majorpark]

Cool video. Have a sub.

[@newzarte]

Idk after playing the f1c this thing just feal amazing, you have so much and good missiles , a ez gun to aim (after the defa everything feels ez to aim NGL) ,and Great maneuverability alongside the thrust to weight ratio. it's maybe I'm used to play bad plane that I feel like the f4s is really good. I would say that it's only rly weakness is that it's one of the most sold top tier so everybody focus you because you are considered as the ez kill of the game , even tho this focus can be rly fun (pd Hdn +5 aim7 when 4 smooth brain mig29 and other f-14/F16 = 4 ez kill )

[@perennialE]

I prefer the DEFA over the Colt but other than that, yeah, the F-4S is better in like every way. F1C really should be 11.0

[@Starkogi]

As a seasoned F4J pilot, I see this as an absolute win. That’s why I bought it. Ive made over 1 million SL in 32 matches. Also Ive only got two 11.7 games so far. Nothing lower. This is actually rigged and I will be Pursuing gaijin for emotional damages.

[@perennialE]

When I play 10.3 I get 11.3 games but when I play 11.3 I get 12.0 games. Gaijin works in mysterious ways

[@solvdev]

I’m completely new to war thunder, and want to unlock f-16 and f-14 to play with as quickly as possible - will this jet, considering I play it right, enable me to not only reach these jets faster but also allow me to research earlier planes like turbo props? Thanks for any answers

[@perennialE]

Yes. If you practice with it you should be able to get consistent kills and grind quickly.

[@gladiator_games]

It’s on sale 😊

[@YoRHaUnit2Babe]

just know how to simple BVR and You'll die like 80% less

[@AceOfThunderYT]

Wait this is probably a dumb question with a easy answer to but how do you have normal pd on radar not pd hdn?

[@AceOfThunderYT]

Oh its from the hmd. Thought it was in src and acm

[@thaniusvingadorius5532]

is it good for grinding?

[@standalonecomplex2195]

One of the best ones.. so which are better or as good?

[@somaticapollo6025]

1:52 im pretty sure the aim 7m is the best radar guided in us line, its the same as the 7f but its got a better seeker

[@Kamil666O6]

While you are technically right, Ig the seekers make no difference at all, so 7f and 7m are identical in practice.

[@perennialE]

They are, quite literally, identical in game. The 7M in real life was a 7F with a monopulse seeker. Gaijin took the liberty to model every missile as if it was monopulse, otherwise a lot of missile would become unbelievably bad. The AIM-7MH is an upgrade program that could make the missiles different in game, as it added lofting to the 7M, but Gaijin has yet to definitely say if they're going to change it or not so the missiles will be different.

[@Panocek]

@@perennialE And nerfing non 7M Sparrows across the board would cause quite the skreeing after selling so many F4$. At the same time, to my understanding, such nerf would mostly affect Search mode and chaff interaction, ie 7F and older Sparrows would no longer track aircraft despite radar locking onto chaff.

[@Randoomms]

How do you move your radar with your mouse ??

[@perennialE]

The F-4S has a mode called "HMD", which lets you point your radar with your mouse. I recommend watching my friend Jaek, he has good guides and explains the mechanics behind the F-4S.

[@Randoomms]

@@perennialE thanks bro

[@SolarWingXI]

Bought it because it killed me in a ton of matches in my Tornado (also grinding for f15). I'm not quite enjoying the struggle bus at a .5 kd 💀 Having to juggle the inconsistent radar settings on Xbox isn't worth it honestly.

[@zeta4687]

premium F4J i would say yes i have a good time in F4J especially after 12.3 is a thing yeah it'll get about 70% uptier but 6 sparrow still powerful enough (more powerful than F16ADF for me. i like more radar missile)

[@Rex6b2001]

Pretty sure I can out pull a I’m 7f just by going to the left and up and when the missile is 1-2km away making a role and pulling to right corner.

[@thatguy46744]

The most undertiered aircraft in the games history.

[@SilentButDudley]

It’s the second best top tier premium jet imo. MiG 23 outperforms it late game, but this thing is an early game beast.

[@_Spartan-107_]

Uh what? The gun pod has also been excellent. It's more effective than the AIM-7 that attempts to return to it's home planet in the tau cluster.

[@mangust1125]

well, is it worth it for 35bucks? i just want to play high tier and grind the usa tree

[@vesical7952]

How do you like it

[@mangust1125]

i dont have it. tpday was sale i could have gotten it but i got the MiG 23 ML-way way way better the enemys just eat the missiles@@vesical7952

[@WarWolf__C7]

if you really need to grind fast ! base bombing is the key !( unfortunately ) 4..5 kill will get u 15KP max while i can make 30K plus RP just with one base and 2~3 kill ! ( if u manage to land it will give u extra RP )

[@creepincreepy261]

but you die a whole lot more when bombing, and in a lot of games, you either don't get a base, or get a base and then procede to die after the entire enemy team is on your tail

[@perennialE]

Positioning matters a lot more in a plane like the F-4S, which bombing takes away from. I typically bomb in the late game where the F-4S has less impact, so I can still have some use as you're likely to lose most 1v1s regardless.

[@WarWolf__C7]

@@creepincreepy261 that’s for new player ! which i wouldn’t suggest!

[@TheTISEOMan]

5:50 I made this exact point a long time ago with the F-4E against the MiG-29 but then you have the standard redditor go, "BBBUTT BUT BUT BUT IN A VACCUUUM THE MIG-29 WOULD WINNNNNNNN" and then the dipshit accused me of doxxing him (????) because I simply told him 'sneed' I guess that's a thing now. But I would suggest you go into better detail about dogfighting, even if you realistically wouldn't have DCS level fights in War Thunder due to the nature of each match, because I assume you would be a pretty good rate fighter.

[@TheDougsSB]

Biggest issue with this plane is how many aim7Fs there is now in every game that you have to avoid thanks to this thing. Wish it was a tree vehicle and not a premium

[@MeltedMozzy]

Do you just not use the radar gunsight that it has orrr???

[@perennialE]

The radar gunsight gets caught on terrain in the city map

[@petermikus2363]

Imho those 70 buck savung ma a year of my life to get my favorite plane seems worth it

[@Ghent_Halcyon]

Hate the fact that this is more maneuverable than the J35XS. Give me back my maneuverability gaijin!

[@blezzleSR20]

5:02 💀

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

Good grinder but if you have the F-4J this thing is pointless.

[@Panocek]

Or if you liked F4J enough to want premium copy of it.

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

@@Panocek even then, you are better off talismaning the F-4J instead of spending $70 on a slightly better version of it.

[@Panocek]

@@Boris_The_Turtle Talisman doesn't bring more SL. And then for talisman I'd say F-8E is probably better pick due to MM

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

@@Panocek The SL multiplier on most of the $70 dollar premiums is pretty trash. Might make less of a difference than you think.

[@Panocek]

@@Boris_The_Turtle F-5C have better multiplier. But so what, when I've loathed flying F-5E, but got along nicely with Phantom. And last time I've checked, I play games for fun, not to absolutely min/max everything spreadsheet style.

[@benburkett-db2oq]

Before real shatter, I found myself absolutely shredding enemy planes with the high amount of ammunition and firerate in the colt gun pod. Haven’t tried it since they “fixed” realshatter. Maybe I should get it a try…

[@TheEpicGamingChair.]

You truly should, shvaks and russian 23mm eradicate props, hell even japanese 20mm now erase stuff so easily it's absolutely funny

[@perennialE]

Realshatter, even though it was fixed, still reduced the number of fragments the Colts generates. Very mid gun now, but it has unlimited ammo and good velocity so you can just hose people down.

[@cookiecraze1310]

Even with the nerfs from fixed real shatter one burst will usually kill or set an enemy on fire.

[@FlavioBogisich]

great

[@EGR494]

I dont like this plane because there are so many low level players or player that have very little experience with the aircraft and the tier wich ruins high tier Air RB matches because you have a so many f4s players that instantly die after the first 7 minutes its very hard to win a match also most of them are only groundpounding wich is frustrating.

[@stfuandstopcrying]

can’t expect them to waste 5 years grinding for one top tier vehicle can you?

[@TungstenOnNoobDifficulty]

Mirage F-1 is a jack of all ass (watched ur mirage F-1 vid again lol)

[@JoshWallace-i3l]

I got this and still a noob. I was getting thrashed by an SU-39

[@FM-hw8yv]

Its a damm menace due too hitting you no matter how much you flare

[@K-Sink1]

play more props E man

[@vasownedv1548]

as a grinder its good because depending on your mood even when you are a little tired etc you can still bomb with it taking 0 skill other good premiums like the saab etc can be hard to grind with at times if you are not focused because all your exp will come from kills

[@snowbrero5448]

2:30 aim7M are better

[@perennialE]

They are identical in game. You can check the files, there is not a single difference between them except for which visual model they use.

[@snowbrero5448]

@@perennialE idk but I still feel a difference and the aim7s are supposed to be better

[@lorddimus]

5:00 I expected 9/11 joke

[@perennialE]

I tried not to take the low hanging fruit, but I was very tempted

[@wafflefrfr]

big funny flying brick brrr for only a small $70

[@Bartholomew_TX]

Imo the f4s is not a good plane at all, it feels like a 10.3 plane in 11.3. The PDV is useless as hell. Because half the time the enemies will just go lower (it still gets affected by ground clutter) and it does not need an HMD, if you have to use the HMD ur already dead. Plus the aim7f feels so ass because of how much it decides to miss for no reason at all.

[@dsqluke]

just admit you don’t know how to play the plane

[@APolishedTurd]

The Aim7F are far from unavoidable. It’s the opposite of what you said. They are avoidable in a all but a few situations. There’s even videos here on KZbin showing you the ways specifically to dodge aim7s reliably. I could even show you and I’m kind of a noob haha. Also worth mentioning it’s IR missiles the AIM9H are exactly the same as Aim9Gs but they have like an upgraded gimble. So they can be radar slaved the same as the 9Gs and you can force them to ignore flares this way with the HMD by hard radar focusing your target and dropping and relooking them.

[@Pradatoru]

Let's say you buy it at a discount ..... what are your thoughts ?

[@vilemcibulka6082]

F-4J with talisman xdd

[@vincgavula2193]

Tmnk

[@ododkurzacz6873]

Aim7f is ez to dodge

[@aluminiumsloep]

Ye don't spend money💰 guys, after all it's better to buy a few happy meals that give an hour fun if you buy for 70 dollars💸.... The plane you buy lasts years but hey who am i to go against the KZbinrs that advocate Scroogeness and only expect free to play and magically think servers and devs are free too. I mean cut the crap with all that wallet warrior hate and spending money on virtual stuff is stupid thing. Go to the movie's spend time in a circus ride, all juat as much expensive and a heck of a lot shorter lasting. So... Can we turn this around you think or is it just a popular opinion amongst KZbinrs and you just regurgitate it over and over untile end of days?🤑

[@eagle7757]

Believe in Jesus Christ and you will have Everlasting Life, to believe in someone, you are convinced that they are true. If you Believe in Jesus Christ, you will be Saved by Grace Alone through Faith Alone in Jesus Christ Alone, John 3:16, KJV. Once you are Saved, you are always Saved, John 6:37, KJV........

[@Rageaben]

F14B Tomchad better

[@alexignat007]

How can you even compare a F4s and a tomcat lol.

[@BlackPhantom_II]

*proceeds to compare a vietnam era aircraft to its succesor* "f14 bEtTeR bRo" yeah no shit, your that guy who would compare a P51D to a F35 and say the F35 is better, well yeah it is but jeez

[@alexignat007]

@@BlackPhantom_II the rank 7 who is flying the F4s lmao

[@BlackPhantom_II]

@@alexignat007 yep lmao

[@meepy2739]

F14B? F22 is way better.

[@sashasasha6872]

ive played it for 300 hours and i say its pretty good if you know how to use it