How Homestuck Time Travel Relates to the Writings of Stephen Kern

[@lyrezaorpheus5085]

the day i meet someone who can explain to me exactly what happened in each timeline we get to witness is the day i can peacefully die

[@GiligamerMC]

its not about being able to explain all the timelines we saw, after many re reads it's stops being difficult. the real difficulty is having enough time to explain it :/

[@VeonySyndrome]

Just watch optimistic duelist videos

[@MegaLpso]

HIVESWAP VOICE: "HEY KIDS DO YOU W ANT TO REWRITE THE WHOLE LORE AND EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME AS FALSE-"

[@aarontavolacci2311]

how is it rewriting the lore?

[@MegaLpso]

Its a joke on how long people took to understand everything, And they had to start over again when Hiveswap came

[@-kenik9629]

I kind of like how the retcon powers eventually resolve to just be a weird time travel thing. Like they loop too, just in a way that weirds out time players.

[@loregoblin3854]

technically though, the things John does with his retcon powers only loop with the retconned timeline. that's what makes it a retcon. like, the version of things where Terezi gave him the scarf essentially *became* a doomed timeline when John decided to abandon it, and started actually following the scarf instructions. if a normal time player did the things that John did, they would create a doomed offshoot for each thing they went back and changed. but John's power allows him to make a change, and have the timeline resulting from the change, become the alpha timeline instead of a doomed offshoot. and then he can piggyback everything he's changing off of everything he's already changed, to alter the course of everyone's personal histories entirely. the alpha timeline has never really been the most fortuitious... the alpha timeline isn't the version of things where everybody lives. it's more like... if you die in the alpha timeline, you lose the ability to create any more doomed offshoots. it's the main artery of existence from which alternate decisions spawn. when Vriska died at the hands of Terezi before the meteor left, that capped off Vriska's existence. there couldn't be any more theoretical doomed Vriskas, because they would've had to be alternate versions of *this* Vriska, and *this* Vriska... the *main* Vriska... is now dead. A time player going back and causing her to live would've resulted in a doomed offshoot timeline... and paradox space conspires to have everyone die in those. so even if said time traveler had managed to stop her from dying *and* stop her from fighting Jack, the timeline would still be doomed anyway. they'd all end up dead somehow. John's power is unique because he made the Vriska that lived actually be the main Vriska, which paradox space wouldn't try to end the existence of.

[@alfonzomyriandes3843]

@@loregoblin3854 To sum it up, John became a time player that has no consequences for his actions whatsoever.

[@loregoblin3854]

@@alfonzomyriandes3843 actually, I'd argue that John's powers could potentially have the most devastating consequences of them all, if he wasn't so careful/specific/minimal about how he uses them. because when John decides to manipulate a timeline into being the alpha timeline, he runs the risk of mischaracterizing everyone. it's a bit weird to describe but like... this is all wrapped up in the question of how much free will a person has, vs. how much their actions are predetermined. time travel literally allows you to know what you will do in the future, so it often feels like the characters are obligated to fulfill the requirements of predestination. and a lot of characters struggle with this... the idea that everything they're about to do feels scripted, even before they do it. it makes it feel like nothing they do matters... but actually, I would consider the alpha timeline to be the version of events that is most in character for a particular person, based on who they are. like, as an example... in the part where Vriska is about to go fight Jack, it is basically 100% likely that Vriska will go, no matter what Terezi says. technically, in a true multiverse, every option is possible... but not every possibility is equally likely. Vriska is incredibly unlikely to lie down on the ground and give up. she's incredibly unlikely to do a lot of things that would be technically possible for her to do in that moment, because those other courses of action don't make sense. they specifically wouldn't make sense _to Vriska,_ therefore, she does not do those things canonically. meanwhile, Terezi has two courses of action that are nearly equally likely to be what she would do. she can either kill Vriska, or let her go... and Terezi is so conflicted about what to do, that the events of the alpha timeline are almost a tossup. ultimately though, Terezi does make a decision. and that decision defines which version of herself belongs on the alpha timeline. which choice is the most true to who she is as a person? which course of action is she most likely to take? and when it comes to time shenanigans, even the things that a person might screw up with their knowledge of the future might just be mistakes that are in character for them to make. Dave can do stable time loops not only because he is careful about tying up loose ends and diligently fulfilling predestination... but because he accepts that this level of collaboration with himself is exactly the sort of thing that he would do if he knew shit about the timeline, which he eventually will. it's in character for him to mess with time in this way, so he's never surprised to learn that his future self became entrenched in time bullshit. what John does, is he changes the alpha timeline from what it originally was, to a sequence of events in which slightly different stuff happens. and if the stuff on the alpha timeline happens because it is the most likely thing for everyone living in that timeline to do with the information they have... then by changing what they're most likely to do, John could actually be changing who they are as people if he isn't careful. granted, the way John actually implements the retcon powers feels more like he's giving his friends new things to consider or react to, rather than trying to actively rework his friends' motives and thinking... but just imagine if John wasn't so subtle. basically, John has the power to ruin everything, but everybody just kind of trusts that he won't.

[@floofdoodle4349]

@@loregoblin3854 so basically John is giving them some amount of freedom from what they all are most likely 2 do or are 'scripted' 2 do by carefully altering the circumstances subtly and giving them new choices 2 consider which still being quite or even very different still somewhat stays in line with thier character ?

[@loregoblin3854]

@@floofdoodle4349 yeah, basically. it's like, back on the Vriska example... the first time around, it's just Terezi, Vriska, and Terezi's request that Vriska stay put. Vriska won't listen, Terezi knows this, Vriska knows she knows this, etc. they basically both know that Vriska would have to die to be stopped. and Vriska is betting her life on the idea that Terezi wouldn't kill her. but Terezi can and will. the situation totally changes if John appears out of nowhere and punches Vriska in the face. that's some totally new stimuli. and Vriska, had been in the process of becoming friends with John for all of act 5. she'd just had a conversation with him in which she revealed that she'd killed people before, and specifically talked about having killed Tavros, and she felt like she might've alienated herself from him. she also wanted to hear from him one more time before she left, and had just about resigned herself to the idea that it wasn't gonna happen, and she'd probably burned that bridge anyway. it's still in character for her to decide to take a different course of action entirely because he turned up. this isn't a "squawk like an imbecile and shit on your desk" moment... Vriska still gets to be Vriska while reacting to new information.

[@xx_phedora_lvuer_xx2498]

homestuck explained: 12 trolls. fuck we lost. kills themselves. 12 new trolls. we won. well fuck some dog asshole killed all of our dream selves. 4 humans. fuck were gonna lose no matter what. let me drop this kids car onto his planet which inadvertently causes a murderous psychopath to become winged and have sword skills and be a dog. well fuck we lost. 4 new kids. clown presidents. 2 troll like aliens. well cool were probably gonna win. 1 troll like alien kills the other and takes over their shared body. the 1 alien is punished with an impossible to win game for killing the other. he befriends a clown, and they win the impossible to win game, and are rewarded with a gang of gnomes with shitty powers and immortality. the 4 new kids are going pretty well. they meet up with the 4 old kids and all gang up and get super powers. the murderous psychopath caused an even more murderous psychopath to go after him- all because he stopped the way of the mail. so the alien's future self called lord english starts a gang of his gnomes and the gnomes are sent back in time to the same time period as another gang, the midnight crew. the gangs become rivals and eventually the leader of the midnight crew, who is an alternate universe version of the winged dog guy with the sword. the midnight crew leader kills most of the gnomes who also kill the entirety of the midnight crew, and he is mechanically enhanced and shit, and becomes a robot. he becomes the new leader of the gnomes and actually goes and fights lord english. lord english has a bunch of alternate host bodies, other than his main body the alien. his host bodies are: an intelligent puppet who masterminds his arrival (BTW LORD ENGLISH IS AN INVINCIBLE DEMON SUMMONED AT THE END OF THE UNIVERSE), a puppet called little cal, and finally, the final version of winged dog guy. the trolls, the 4 old kids, and the 4 new kids exist in separate universes, which is exactly the same, even down to having winged dog guy in every one of them, except the players of the game are different. the final version gets possessed by lord english, and then the leader of the midnight crew goes and fights him. lord english fights a bunch of dead trolls, an adult troll called betty crocker fights some of the kids, a troll and some kids fight the leader of the midnight crew and the winged dog guy who got possessed, some gay british kid (TRUST ME WORST CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE COMIC) fights the gnomes, and the psychotic mail man fights the winged dog guy. it's a really uneventful comic.

[@doggerlander]

Idk man that british kid sounds like a pretty cool and misunderstood character

[@vanillahibiscus486]

Before actually taking interest in Homestuck, never did I ever think it would be this complicated and thought out. It's so great.

[@theforesttroll]

At 00:48 my brain went dumb and thought Dave's cape was apart of him and the art just gave him monster thighs for some reason

[@Kirbman]

Time players aren't the only ones who can initiate a scratch.

[@Slime_2000]

They're needed to have the scratch construct though

[@fishbot9902]

Bro was pretty close to doing one in descend

[@bipanss]

I love how well produced this is, these adittional drawings really give the video life. Keep up the great work!

[@Litvac]

Ah!! Thank you so much for the compliment!!

[@L4Vo5]

Something to note is that the Alpha timeline isn't inherently the one that has the most chances of success. Or at least, according to my favorite interpretation, the Alpha/doomed timelines distinction is bascially only a thing when time loops have to be completed. So, things had to happen as they did for John to create the babies, for obvious reasons, and for the kids to cause the scratch, since Jake was Jane's pen-pal; stuff like that. It's possible, then, that normal Sburb sessions, specially if there's no scratch in them, would have a lot more freedom and perhaps not have an Alpha timeline at all. HOWEVER, the kids and trolls' sessions DO have a very strict alpha timeline to follow, since they HAVE to do things that ultimately result in Lord English's creation in order for them to exist in the first place. It's another way in which Caliborn/LE was "shaping" the story all along

[@doomthegloom]

it is 2021 and I'm rewatching Homestuck videos

[@Dukstless]

2:32 - Minor point but fairly sure retcon powers are not part of Breath powers (it sounds like you're saying "John's class' powers"). Sure, they do fit in the freedom theme of Breath (freedom from narrative and timeline rules), but they're not part of it inb4 i am mishearing things

[@BabygirlMiles]

what's your proof that the retconing isn't a Breath power? where in the comic does it formally state that the Juju's are their own separate power and not something associated w the users God Tier?

[@chroni3659]

Yeah, it seems like every juju is related to the aspect of the character who introduces it. The Homestuck juju, introduced by John, is very Breath-y - it allows freedom from the story's canon. Lil' Cal, introduced by Dave, is Time-y - it contains the soul of the incarnation of Time. (Also, it was reintroduced by Dirk later, and it's also a bit Heart-y - it contains a soul.) The lollipops, introduced by Jane, are very Life-y - they allow ultimate power coupled with ultimate naivety. I may have missed a few jujus, but those are the major ones I can think of.

[@Diskest]

Maybe but its still not a god tier power, its a juju power

[@jamescameron5090]

Yup.

[@dane1382]

@@BabygirlMiles the juju is repeatedly said to represent a hole in the plot, and when john sticks his hand in it, he fills the plothole both physically and metaphysically. this meant that since he put in his arm in it, he has to be the one that wraps the plot up in a coherent fashion, and that the plot will adapt itself so that it makes sense that john can do these things. if vriska had stuck her hand in, it would probably adapt itself to fit her class a lot more as well.

[@heartbeat_root]

Having Time on my Side play throughout this was quite an ingenius play.

[@ProtoAno]

UpWARD MOVEMENT

[@renatocpribeiro]

So... are you going to do the other videos which are twice as long as this one?

[@Litvac]

I'd consider it, but there are some other video essays and projects I'd like to do first!

[@Pixaurora]

this video is awesome!! i love the way you go over stuff, and maybe I'll check out stephen kerns stuff now (as an ex homestuck)

[@Floofy_Fox_Gal]

The way you draw is adorable!

[@JohnVance]

This is awesome, needs more likes! I'd watch a dozen videos like this.

[@Litvac]

Ah! Thank you! I'm glad you liked it. :)

[@jamescameron5090]

The likes were at 413 for a lil bit. That's cool.

[@Litvac]

Aw man I missed it!

[@Infomancer29]

Saw your great work on the animate a grump keep up the good work !

[@Litvac]

Ah!! Thanks so much. :D

[@Infomancer29]

Litvac you have a great voice for videos like this btw you should do more of them!

[@Litvac]

I plan to, honestly! I've been a bit busy since graduation but have been meaning to get back into making these.

[@Infomancer29]

Litvac do you have any specific fandoms youre a part of?

[@Litvac]

I don't associate with fandoms often for personal reasons, but I do enjoy Homestuck, Steven Universe, Undertale, Persona, etc.

[@godlessgallivant7274]

OMG this deserves so many more views!!

[@nickbowling9383]

Very well written and spoken. Good job. I’d love to see more.

[@Litvac]

Thanks so much!! I'd love to do more soon if I get the time.

[@eliaswilliams971]

I too plan on talking about Homestuck in college ( just to get people to read it)

[@St0nek]

Hey wich soundrack did you use?

[@Wonderlight-o6o]

hope you get a good mark for this!

[@Litvac]

thank you!!

[@oberonpolaris8834]

I LOVE THE HARLEY DAVIDSON SHIP AND THE BOOK TITLE IS JUSTT IAUFIuaUF

[@macromachina7339]

is john aradia a thing ? you Know robot an all ?

[@NinjaGurlPower]

Very insightful!

[@Litvac]

Thank you!

[@GatesOfAvalon1]

Did you get a good grade?

[@Litvac]

It's been a while since I submitted this, but from what I remember, I did very well on it! My professor really liked it.

[@FallenAngelTsuki]

How do we know that you didnt already go back and change this video?

[@Litvac]

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@bijtmntongaf]

Why do you just have 185 subscribers?