How many Pokemon beat Falkner without Optional Battles? - Episode 1: Kanto & Johto Starters

Minimum Battles is the ultimate challenge. But how many Pokemon can beat the first Gym of Gen 2 on Minimum Battles?
On my main channel ‪@RBYPokemonChallenges‬ , I have already completed this challenge with all 151 Pokemon on Gen 1, but Gen 2 presents a massively different challenge - sleep and Wrap were nerfed, there's no Gen 1 miss (1/256 glitch), and all the trainers have better AI. But Minimum Battles might just be possible with some effort and ingenuity.
Today's Challengers:
Bulbasaur, Ivysaur, Venusaur
Charmander, Charmeleon, Charizard
Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastoise
Chikorita, Bayleef, Meganium
Cyndaquil, Quilava, Typhlosion
Totodile, Croconaw, Feraligatr

[@fadeleaf845]

Keep in mind whenever you use Smokescreen, you miss out on a turn you could've attacked instead. So in Quilava's case, I counted the misses and it would genuinely do better if it didn't have access to Smokescreen, removing this trap option.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

It's on my list for a redo at the end of the series

[@fdkugb]

There are 4 berries at the start: 2 of them on trees, your held item, and an NPC in the house next to the second tree (that one is one time only)

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Good to know! I haven't been getting the NPC berry, so I will remember that and grab it from here on out!

[@cpalmer3]

For Quilava, I think you should have gone for it without accuracy stats against Faulkner. I was able to complete the challenge with 8 resets total. Quite a few but definitely not impossible. I did so without smoke-screening Pidgey.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

I will retry. In my runs it wasn't working, but it could very well have just been bad rolls on my end and too much trying to use Smokescreen

[@EllieHellBelle]

Late, but there is a reason why it seems like they always hit wirh accuracy reduction, and it’s due to the expected damage mechanic. Basically, they’ll roll all their moves, and they’ll only miss if all the moves would miss. So accuracy really only helps reduce the odds of particular attacks, not getting hit at all.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

That would make sense. I know they completely nerfed accuracy moves on Gen 2

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

This was so much fun to try. It's amazing that Gen 2 completely flips typings on their head

[@jawonjones1877]

So mad I’m just now finding this channel. Better late than never

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Haha, I had it linked at the bottom of the main channel for a while, just wasn't mentioning it much 😂

[@ReyaktheHunter]

I wouldn't be surprised if most pokemon could make it through Johto and 7 out of 8 Kanto gym leaders on min battles, but Blue is going to be a hard wall, and Red will be impossible except for maybe some edge cases. 0 DVs might make Lance near impossible because of the power of the Dragonites.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

I mean, if a Pokemon can learn an ice-type move, Lance might be doable. I am actually very interested to see it anything succeeds in reaching/beating Red without the use of something stupid like Double Team

[@Muzgrob]

Jokes on you. I watched both iterations of brock minimum battles. So Im glad I finally found this channel.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Lol, welcome to Gen 2 Muzgrob

[@Muzgrob]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges Glad to be here. Look forward to seeing who can make it through. I have high hopes for Feraligator.

[@tassosxenakis8599]

Quilava took me 5 tries, no great luck involved - 1 smokescreen + 1 Leer and then spam tackle on each hard fight... full acc drop tactics are not optimal but some acc drop can always help!

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Absolutely. In this first episode, I was trying way too hard to go for Accuracy when it wasn't good to try to setup so much. I redid this one in the final episode and Quilava did pass in the end.

[@androidboyd]

Just found this series, so I'm not sure how far you've gotten yet. But regarding the question whether a pokemon could beat Abe (the Spearow guy) but lose to Rod (the Pidgey guy), I ran into that with Voltorb. Voltorb resists Peck, but not Tackle, and doesn't have the damage to chew through both Pidgeys.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Haven't gotten to Voltorb yet, but that makes a lot of sense!

[@zerotarzan9803]

why does Cyndaquil learn ember so late like level 12 i thought for sure it learned a lot earlier same it couldn't go further in this.

[@Spudmay]

Going through and making sure i haven't missed any videos in this series so far. I've found this so fun and inspiring. I've been working on a unique challenge method, and I'm looking forward to trying to make a YT channel out of it!

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Thank you! That's awesome, share details!

[@Spudmay]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges long and short of it is that you have to use your moves and pokemon specifically in the order that you have them. Other specifics is that my team can't exceed the level of a gym leaders lowest pokemon, and a couple moves (like Focus Energy and Whirlwind) have other functions like allowing the use of items. It has been hard and fun so far

[@Spudmay]

For instance against Brock I brought a lvl 12 Charmander and Butterfree. It was still hard because you CAN'T cheese Bide if he times it right. If you catch a metapod for Butterfree you get harden and can therefore use confusion more often, but using a Caterpie caught one allows string shot, making Onix slower (very important!) So it's very interesting

[@stardf29]

SPOILER for quick recap of runs... ... ... Meganium: Reflect + 2 out of 4 crits on Razor Leaf for Abe's Spearow. According to my calcs, factoring in Razor Leaf's miss chances, that is about an 6.4% chance of happening, which is rough but can be grinded for (it's higher than the chance of getting a single crit with one use of a move). Falkner is far less threatening so no insane luck needed there. PASS Bayleef: Given how much more damage it takes, even if Bayleef crit every Razor Leaf, it can't beat Spearow. FAIL Chikorita: Auto-FAIL Venusaur: Takes too much damage from Spearow and can't do enough back. FAIL Ivysaur/Bulbasaur: Auto-FAIL x2 Typhlosion: Falkner must be running for president with how much he's mudslinging, so Typhlosion will need some luck (and maybe some accuracy-dropping Smokescreens of its own) to blaze through. PASS Charizard: Being able to fly over mud is a huge advantage, and Charizard's raw power takes it the rest of the way. PASS Quilava: Not having Ember is a huge blow, and makes the accuracy war against Falkner a losing battle. Maybe going for straight Tackles against Pidgey and saving Smokescreens for Pidgeotto will work, though? FAIL? Cyndaquil: Auto-FAIL? Charmeleon: Lucky burn made Spearow a joke. Raw power means not even the mudslinging Pidgey can stop it. PASS Charmander: Crit luck (or a burn) to get past Spearow, then push past Pidgey (may need a crit or a first hit burn) to minimize its mudslinging and use the STAB move to take care of Pidgeotto. PASS Feraligatr: News Flash: Rage is actually good! (Ironically it'd still be good here if it still worked like Gen 1 but the ability to break away from it is still better for the move overall.) PASS Croconaw/Totodile: See Feraligatr. PASS x2 Blastoise: Withdraw + Tail Whip lets it Tackle down the birds with minimal issue. PASS Wartortle: Tail Whip and its relatively high Defense lets it eventually chip past Spearow. Has Withdraw for Falkner, so see Blastoise there. PASS Squirtle: Needs to get a turn 1 Speed drop against Spearow (or a lucky crit, maybe) to get through. Has Withdraw for Falkner. PASS Final Results: PASS: 11 FAIL: 7

[@PKMNwww411_MkII]

Typhlosion's base stats are identical to Charizard's.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

But Zard gets Belly Drum...

[@nustacular]

For future post game battles (unless you count this as a broken held item) there is the Bezerk Gene. It doubles attact but you are confused for 256 turns. I’ve seen a max DV magikarp use it to beat Red. If you can one shot the Pokémon it turns every battle into like a 1/64 chance to win

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

I have not even played around with the Bezerk gene or Pokerus at this point 😂

[@AaronWGaming]

You could get a quick claw if I recall correctly from Earl outside the gym

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

I know about it in the national park, but is it available before Falk er in Crystal?

[@AaronWGaming]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges Earl leads you to the school and pretty sure he gives a quick claw... I may be misremembering (when you talk to him inside)

[@AaronWGaming]

so forgive me if my info is dated... I last played GSC 20 years ago

[@raptors11111]

Oh man how am i just realizing now you've got a gen 2 channel lol. Im subbed to RBY. Hope you keep this series going man! Its your series on Gen 1 is what got me into your content, was bummed when you stopped making em. Keep up the good work!

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

For sure. I was planning a Gen q refresh as well, just have a ton of other videos to get out first before that. I have a massive backlog of runs and ideas at the moment. I find myself wishing that I could be full time on this, just not quite there yet

[@raptors11111]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges totally understandable, you get out a crazy amount of videos despite not being full time! A gen 1 refresh down the line would be wicked but i also dig some gen 2. Lookin forward to seeing what else youve got cooked up!

[@DoctorNovakaine]

My favorite starter boys clean sweeping this minimum battles challenge gives me life. I don't see Red being viable, though. I just don't think there's enough experience on minimum battles to get close to Red's team. The BBG can compensate for a lot in RBY, but it's not a factor here, so it's going to be a lot harder to get by high disparities.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

I agree. I did the test run with Mewtwo to show that it is *technically* possible. I think Sleep status and relevant buffing moves will be important, as will TMs by the end. I don't think anything does minimum battles without TMs in Johto at this point, unless Hypno manages it

[@PhilipMurphyExtra]

This is a great idea for a new challenge for sure.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Thank you Philip! Thanks for all your support!

[@Uran10]

I know this is an old video, but you really don't need to be strategizing for rival 1. Especially if you're evolved. Just attack. There's 0 need for smokescreen etc. Quilava should never lose to a lv 5 totodile when its also lv 5.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Generally, I agree, but you'll see as we go through that because rival also has good DVs, some fights are harder than you'd think

[@Kuronosa]

Okay, just something that is absolutely screwy, but that first Spearrow? It has the EXACT SAME Attack stat as Falkner's ace Pidgeotto. Yeah, that's why it does so much damage.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Precisely. It's basically the gym leader before the gym leader They seem to have basically wanted to make it where if you beat the first trainer you'd be set for Falkner.

[@stevepierce227]

An interesting fact is if you have a gold or silver version to trade to, this kind of challenge would actually be possible on a legit cartridge thanks to arbitrary code execution (ACE). The only thing is you wouldn't be able to trade until after the first rival fight. Basically you get your gold or silver version up to right before badge 3 where you can set up the glitch, and you can use ACE to edit the starter into any pokemon you want, you can edit the DVs to get perfect, 0, or specific for a hidden power, and you edit the moves to match that pokemon's level 6 moveset (you could even reset the level to 5, but since you beat the rival it would be level 6). Then you trade it back and you could continue the challenge from there. Not sure how much that single battle would affect the exp. curve of pokemon that have different growth than the starters though. ACE in Gen 2 is fun because on the 3DS ports you can transfer the pokemon as long as they have legal movesets. Shiny hunting has never been easier lol.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

For sure. I would have to learn the ins and outs of ACE

[@135forte]

Not sure if GSC is going to be easier or harder than RBY. Iirc, it has a lot more required battles, but the level curve is such a mess that it might not balance out. You will also have to decide if you want to follow tradition or if you want to do what most games do and ignore the post-game, which is probably impossible for most mons because of the level jump at Blue and Red. The Pimanrules Crystal trainer battle royale had them undefeated except to themselves because of that jump.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I hope to continue to the Red Fight to see if any Pokemon will be able to do it. I haven't mapped out the whole game exp-wise, so I'm just taking it in sections. There are a lot of strange things with level jumps though, and add on Gym Leaders and Rivals having better DVs, it can make a big difference, but then held items and different movesets also make a big difference

[@blastification2]

It's kind of crazy just how much worse the Bulbasaur line (and grass types in general) are in Johto as compared to Kanto. You basically dont have a single good matchup in the gyms and Elite 4.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Seriously! I think it was an intentional decision by the devs - Buff bug, fire, and dragon, debuff grass, psychic, and ghost.

[@redreoicy6698]

I was able to beat the birdkeeper with Venusaur in minimum battles. The ideal fight is leech seed, growl, growl, then start tackling. The best method is reset until Falkner does 21 damage for his first two turns. (11 dmg is 2/39, 10 dmg is 18/39). From there Venusaur can win I think 10% or so of the time, not sure exact odds.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah this was the very first episode and I plan to go back and revisit some of the really close cases

[@redreoicy6698]

Well the overall odds for Venusaur to win are truly awful, probably similar to needing 3/3 crits

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

I mean, this is part of what I've been talking about in marginal cases. I'm not saying that it's impossible to win with these Pokemon that are close, rather I'm saying that they're likely impractical to do Minimum Battles with on the basis that even on Max DVs they need such massive luck that there would simply be no reason to do it.

[@Magikarpador]

Charmelieons gen 2 sprite has such vivid colors

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, the Gen 2 sprites are more colored and saturated than Gen 1

[@naraiceylob]

Wow. Surprised by Venusaur dropping out. I'd imagine that level 8 would have done the job (2 more speed to outspeed spearow, take less damage and deal more damage with extra hp). Quilava got through the spearow in 4 attacks after you took 8 turns of set up. I suspect you could have done 1 turn of set up and still got through in 4 attacks. Spearow was doing 6 damage an attack and quilava could take 37 points of damage (including berry) so should have been safe. If the opponent is burned you should show -1 attack on your stat screen probably. I was really impressed with charmander. The crit on pidgey was key. Feraligator was great of course. Blastoise was the typical turtle. slow and steady won the raise. Croconow running rage was typical and sailed through it. I recently watched a video stating that totodile was the best mon for falkner so of course croconow made it. I thought wartortle might struggle but wasnt surprised to see it win. Totodile of course sailed through falkner. Was surprised to see squirtle sneak through.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I think Venusaur and a lot of Pokemon would benefit from getting to Level 8 and getting to a damage rounding threshold. But I was really surprised it would make that much difference. About Quilava, Obviously coming from Gen 1 the stat modifiers are bigger, and since this was the first set of runs, I probably overestimated the effectiveness of those stat altering moves. Will think about the update on the overlay for burn

[@shaunduggan8605]

For every smokescreen quilava uses, you need the opponent to miss once just to break even. Same with leer, it needs to save you from needing to hit an extra time, plus you aren't rolling to crit. Did you try a more straightforward approach? Just tackle?

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

I generally go all in on attack first, then start using status moves. But this was the first episode so I may have been too focused on the Accuracy strat here.

[@lewisgregory1996]

Do the gym leaders calculate stab because Faulkner shouldn't use mud slap

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

they calculate expected damage. There are some situations where based on your defense stat the damage for two or more moves is the same, and then you get some weird interactions

[@lewisgregory1996]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges I found the weird interaction that you were talking about. For a level 7 Pidgey, mud slap does more damage if it's super effective. For 8 and 9 both do the same damage. Afterwards, tackle is stronger.

[@PKMNwww411_MkII]

GBubble has a chance to lower a foe's speed.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I just didn't seem to get the speed drop for my life

[@teoperalez]

Algorithm comment ❤

[@oniondesu9633]

why didnt you just attack the totodile with quilava? the smokescreen strat wastes turns in a short battle for a small chance at a miss. especially with your DVs, just attacking would win that battle 90% of the time at least

[@oniondesu9633]

you kind of have a tendency to assume you need to use stat altering strats to win any battle, you spammed so many growls at totodile as charmander, remember the starter matchups at level 5 are very doable in every game, this one shouldnt be any different. you should probably try spamming attack and only attempt more advanced starts if you cant progress

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

We went back to redo Quilava in the final episode of Falkner. Keep watching and you'll see that I adjusted away from so much status spam except where clearly needed

[@johncalabro8710]

Venusaur I think you could of won with 2 or 3 growls and then leech seed. The Spearow would then not be doing enough damage.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

In my testing it doesn't seem to work, but I will go back when I do the post-Falkner redos

[@Canaris4]

I realise Smokescreen strats for Quivlava are terrible, but have you tried using Scratch (a move that does damage) instead?

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yes, I generally go for the all-in attack strat. Problem is the accuracy drops for Quilava followed by the much greater power of Pidgeotto with Gust. Even here with Max DVs, this one wasn't happening.

[@michabaron4129]

Here before you get big

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

🔥🔥🔥🔥 Thank you!

[@myhandleiswhat]

I'm just curious, what happened to the audio in this one?

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

It was the first st episode before I had my current setup, so the audio was probably worse and the keyboard sounds were way too much.

[@myhandleiswhat]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges Okay, thank you! I don't recall this being an issue on the RBY channel. I figured it was the case, but, I also thought I'd ask.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

I checked it and everything seemed fine on my end, but not sure if there was something more specific going on? If you could give more detail, I will investigate further.

[@myhandleiswhat]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges It's really only just this video, sounds like there's some pops in the background and like it was run through one of those digital noise removal filters. Your other videos don't sound like this.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Got it, I think all my settings are changes since then, and I use a completely different mic now as well. So hopefully all the future vids sound much better!

[@johncalabro8710]

Rage would work in gen 1 in think with Brock.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Rage strates with Golem would be legit at least 😂

[@MichaelSotoCE]

I liked the concept but the pacing could have been much much faster. Also i feel like your gameplay is pretty weird. Usually more than 2 growls or withdraws is wasting time. With the rival fight, I've won it many times just attacking, it seemed like you really overthinking it setting up 2 or even 3 smokescreens.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, as this was my first set of runs in Gen 2, I didn't realize just how much they nerfed stat debuffs compared to Gen 1. I generally am now trying all-out attack, then some debuffs, then middle ground I most of these and focusing on what works

[@Canaris4]

2:34 "This video isn't going to be like any video you've watched before. We're not going to run the full game. We're just going to go up against Falkner". You know your audience so well. How did you know I never watched your Brock minimum battles runs?

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Came in assuming no one watched my Brock Minimum Battles runs 😂