How many Pokemon beat Falkner without Optional Battles? - Episode 9: Ponyta-Dodrio Murkrow-Girafarig

Minimum Battles is the ultimate challenge. But how many Pokemon can beat the first Gym of Gen 2 on Minimum Battles?
On my main channel ‪@RBYPokemonChallenges‬ , I have already completed this challenge with all 151 Pokemon on Gen 1, but Gen 2 presents a massively different challenge - sleep and Wrap were nerfed, there's no Gen 1 miss (1/256 glitch), and all the trainers have better AI. But Minimum Battles might just be possible with some effort and ingenuity.
Today's challengers:
Ponyta, Rapidash,
Slowpoke, Slowbro,
Magnemite, Magneton,
Farfetch'd,
Doduo, Dodrio,
Murkrow,
Slowking,
Misdreavus,
Wobbuffet,
Girafarig

[@Kuronosa]

Another quirk of the Gen 2 AI is that, unless it sees a super-effective move, it will almost always use the move with the highest damage potential, so unless you're weak to ground, Mud Slap will not happen, and instead Falkner will attack with STAB moves, as they have the highest damage potential.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, there have been a few spots where I was surprised by his move choice. But I think in general that is the case

[@bitterzombie]

I think trainers will sometimes try to use status moves like Leer on their first couple turns, but since mud slap does damage & has a stat drop as the secondary effect, Falkner doesnt consider it a status move

[@dragonslayerz2220]

Fun fact about Gen 2 AI: When choosing a damaging move, it checks damage for each move and picks the strongest option. This means that mudslap isn't a guarantee even when weak to ground, unless you also resist falkner's other attacks.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

I see. So that's why Pidgey will sometimes use mudslap over Tackle, but Pidgeotto chooses Gist over Mud Slap

[@AndyTheVandy]

Something that you're probably already aware of but I figured I'd mention just in case is that there are two badge boosts in this game. There are the same stat boosts as in gen 1 (although they only get applied once) and there are also type boosts. For example, falkners badge boosts the damage of all flying type moves, Bugsy's badge boosts all bug moves, etc. I just thought of this because of all the flying types in this episode. Loving this series!

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

For sure. I know that lots of types get boosts throughout the game. I forget which type doesn't get the boost? Dark type?

[@AndyTheVandy]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges yup, since between Kanto and Johto there are no dark gyms. It's a shame especially considering it's one of the new types, but that's gen 2 for ya. A flawed masterpiece.

[@DoctorNovakaine]

@@AndyTheVandy That's not really a Gen 2 thing - the series didn't have a Dark-type gym until Gen 8. I'm pretty sure they had deliberately avoided it for a long time because the enemy teams often used Dark-types.

[@myhandleiswhat]

So, the reason Slowbro has a more defined moveset is because Slowking is a trade evolution with King's Rock, meaning you can get it as soon as you can get a Slowpoke, but Slowbro evolves from level 30 something. There's a trainer around Mahogany town with an underleveled Slowbro.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

For sure. I didn't check the evolution requirements before, but it makes perfect sense

[@stardf29]

SPOILER for quick recaps... ... ... Rapidash: Easily burns down the gym as long as accuracy luck from the mudslinging Pidgey isn't terrible. PASS Ponyta: Needs both a crit and favorable damage ranges to get past Spearow, only to get mud-slapped into oblivion against Falkner. FAIL Slowking: Curse definitely counts as a "broken TM" in Gen 2, and Slowking shows why here. PASS Slowbro: See Slowking, with a bit of Super Soaker action on the Spearow to boot. PASS Slowpoke: See Slowking. PASS Magneton: Just needs a bit of accuracy luck to Thundershock the mudslinging Pidgeotto. PASS Magnemite: See Magneton. PASS Murkrow: The superior Pecker pecks through the gym easily. PASS Farfetch'd: Needs a crit to get past Spearow, then can use Sand-Attack strats against Falkner. PASS Dodrio: STAB Fury Attack tears through the gym. PASS Doduo: Barely out-pecks Spearow, then can use Growl to make it easier to peck down Falkner. PASS Misdreavus: Requires really good Psywave luck. Spite can cut short Pidgey's mudslinging, and Growl helps against Pidgeotto. PASS (Note: Struggle was used against Rod but involved using up PP within the fight, so no additional battles were entered, which is the main thing that would put a mon in the Struggle category) Wobbuffet: Counter turns the birds' aggression back at them. PASS Girafarig: STAB Stomp flattens the gym. PASS Final Results: PASS: 13 FAIL: 1

[@KyleLeeman]

Man you’ve very quickly become one of my favorite creators. Both channels absolutely rule. Can’t wait to see how this all pans out and I hope you’re recovering from the surgery!

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Thank you, Kyle! I am doing my best to improve and learn, and I hope you keep enjoying the content! LG!

[@megariderfire1994]

Huh...wow, a lot of these pokemon did better than expected. Honestly, I'd imagine you're right about how Ember would've helped Ponyta...being both a STAB and having that Burn chance. Also, Gen 2 does have some interesting strats for some of these pokemon for the first gym...like Curse for the Slowpoke line, Synthesis for Jumpluff, and heck even Spite for Misdreavus.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Absolutely true, but also important to note every time that this is Perfect DVs (or IVs in later gens) and that means a lot of the Pokemon that struggle even a little are likely all but impossible with even middling DVs

[@megariderfire1994]

Oh yeah, good point and you often do a lot of worst DV/IV runs. Had these pokemon not have perfect DVs, their unique niche strats wouldn't help them as much as they would have against Falkner.

[@dragonslayerz2220]

Facts about stat changes between Gen 1 and 2 (regarding ponyta's run and Abe): Stage modifiers for stats are unchanged between gen 1 and 2, excluding Accuracy and Evasion which have been weakened by 33%.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I looked it up again after that I realized I was mistaken.

[@PKMNwww411_MkII]

We could display the foe's PP on the screen. Struggle does 1/2 damage recoil in Gen I, 1/4 damage recoil in Gens II and III, and 1/4 the user's HP in Gen IV.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Definitely. I done have it in the overlay because they didn't have PP in Gen 1. Need to update for Gen 2

[@redxraider0613]

Went back through and watched a few older videos waiting for this video. Hope your recovery goes well.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Awesome, thank you! I am feeling mostly better still some pain where they mad the incision, but now tolerable enough to sit down and record again! Should be back in proper shape by next week.

[@dragonslayerz2220]

The starter thing at the beginning regarding Chikorita is more abouth when there's no obvious starter to pick. Chikorita/Bayleef is the best of the starters in general, but a fire type will still have much more trouble against totodile.

[@dragonslayerz2220]

It's due to the Azalea rival. Bayleef has Razor leaf and some decent status moves while the other two just kinda suck.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I can get that. I think the fact that Rival 3 is required also has to factor in, since in some cases that team with a Quilava or Croconaw can be rough.

[@SleeperOptic]

Fan of the other challenge. Came to give some love here. Great video to be introduced to!

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Thank you so much!, I appreciate your support on both channels!

[@dragonslayerz2220]

Somethimg about the Slowtwins vs Bugsy: Bugsy's lead is a metapod that can do basically nothing to a curse user. It's going to go well.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I think Bugsy will give us all the setup we need.

[@MrDreyven]

Wobuffet is 100% consistent and purely determined by math. Counter does twice the damage you take so if an enemy team has more than twice your total HP + berry it should be impossible to take out with counter. For next weeks predictions without looking anything up: Pineco will fail. The ghastly line could be trouble since nightshade doesn't affect normal types in gen 2 onwards. Grimer will definitely take a lot of attempts due to mud slap and it might just be walled by it. Either dewgong or shellder will fail as I predict one of them to only have tackle like ponyta but the other will randomly get watergun or bubble and narrowly do it.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

For sure. The question in my mind is where that occurs. My guess, it makes it to Morty at best then gets wrecked by Spite because it can't directly damage

[@philipmurphy2]

Ponyta I would take to the Bellsprout Tower as my quickest route throughout the game

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Definitely. Like Quilava, I think if I just gained a couple more levels it would get through

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

Except the goal of this series (and Teo as a whole) is to beat the game on minimum battles, 0 DV/IVs, zero TMs

[@Spudmay]

This is such a fun series to run in the background. This js my first episode of it (i watch all your rby stuff), but I'm loving the direction!

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Thank you! It's really fun going through each Pokemon Evo line and seeing if they can make it happen. Tbh the results on Falkner so far are not what I expected.

[@dragonslayerz2220]

With Slowpoke: You're likely setting up Curse too much, since you're doing well over half. The extra defense from the additional setup is being undermined by taking so many extra hits. (Not that going to +6 is never good, but sometimes it's overkill to a harmful extent.)

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I tend to go overboard on setup at times. The diminishing returns mean that often 2-3 turns of setup is the max needed against small teams.

[@EllieHellBelle]

Glad to see you’re back

[@EllieHellBelle]

If you need a Charcoal early, you can always buy one from the Azalea mart. They’re just expensive.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Thanks, good to be back! Yeah, I will see if there are situations where an early Charcoal makes sense.

[@PKMNwww411_MkII]

Counter vs. physical moves, Mirror Coat vs. special moves, and Safeguard blocks ailments. Counter can't hit ghost-types and Mirror Coat can't hit dark-types. Go to the move menu to look at the moves. Type, Power, Accuracy, PP, and effect description.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Counter not hitting ghosts could be a big problem, since ghost is physical in Gen 2....

[@dragonslayerz2220]

For Ponyta vs Falkner: On the Pidgey, if 2 crit tackles takes out the Pidgey then it might be more consistent to just spam tackle against the Pidgey. Getting a crit gives a 3 turn knockout regardless, but with spamming Tackle, you get 3 chances to crit instead of 2. Still ain't happening against Pidgeotto.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah Pidgeotto is the wall there I think. But I'm always willing to go back and retry some Pokemon. That being said, I mention in a lot of videos that these are Max DVs, so if we're struggling too much here, it means that most randomly generated DVs would simply fail.

[@hiei248]

If wobbuffet hits a struggle area, or any Pokemon really, check their moves to see if they get any good event moves or maybe even egg moves. Maybe that's a series for a project after this, seeing what it takes to get all the Pokemon through minimum battles. For example, there's a Gen 2 event wobbuffet that gets mimic, and I'm quite sure that will be much better than destiny bond.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Testing Mimic Wobbuffet sounds like a great solo challenge idea

[@johncalabro8710]

Wobbuffet will struggle when the trainers have 4 or more pokemon. This it is because it is a troll pokemon. Especially Gen 3 onwards, since it gets the ability Shadow tag. Counter and Mirror coat are good but require you get hit and lose health. I am also surprise it does not learn bide.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

I think that's exactly the case. When it can no longer outlast them, it's going to struggle hard. Fun to see it smash the first Gym though

[@RichardBucher2077]

Already looking forward to the next video, I dont know the starting movesets of any of the next pokemon but I feel like gastly is going to get wrecked , same for onix and steelix purely because of mudslap , but steelix is one of my favorites so I am cheering for it 🎉

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

It's always kind of fun to go in blind. I find it more interesting than having all the answers from the start

[@androidboyd]

You might've succeeded against Falkner with Misdreavus a little faster by pre-lowering your PP (keep a few Growl/Spite, but not the entire lot of them), so you didn't have to sit and spam non-moves as many times and get to Struggle faster. Obviously made it anyway, so it doesn't matter too much.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

For sure. I think getting the right ranges with Psywave is likely simpler than getting through with Struggle, since Pidgeotto does so much damage. The real key is landing the two good spites on Pidgey to stop Mudslap

[@ShadyScienceFeline]

Judging from other people’s runs I’ve seen, you can absolutely put Curse in the “broken TM” category by your standards: It’s learned by any pokémon that learns TMs, and as a double setup move is instrumental in beating Red for many weak pokémon (though the speed drop means that spamming it isn’t always the strat). It is, however, located in Kanto so it’s usually only available for the last couple of major battles.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Exactly this. I think Return and Hidden Power are more likely to receive "Broken" status for the fact that they are not really unique, but I think Return is necessary on Normal-Type Pokemon. I will likely have to label Defense Curl + Rollout as broken, but we'll see

[@travisalexander6440]

​@@GSCPokemonChallengesI think any move or combo can be broken by not necessarily illegal if the moves are in the Pokémon's natural learnser. If you are allowing Return, Accuracy strats in mons that get Sand Attack (Farfetch'd), and Defense Curl/Rollout combos on Pokémon that get them, maybe only ban the Double Team TM.

[@DoctorNovakaine]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges I don't think any of these should be considered broken, to be honest. The broken TMs in Gen 1 really are a problem just because of the shenanigans they can allow for - Double Team + Substitute + Toxic stalls out anything that isn't Poison-type, Mimic gives you access to moves a Pokemon shouldn't be able to learn, Bide is broken in a lot of ways, Rest is almost a free full heal. The fact that virtually everything can learn them isn't what makes them broken, it just means that the broken strats are freely available. Conversely, the ones you're thinking about here don't really have anything that special to them. Curse is just a buffing move that will only come in handy if you can afford to spend the turns setting up in the first place, which if you can usually means you're using something like sleep or confusion. Return gets strong later in the game but it's just a regular attacking move - banning it would be like banning Thunder or Blizzard (which are more powerful and can even do more than Return can). Hidden Power doesn't even matter for you - its type and power are based on DVs, meaning if you run it on 0 DVs you're ALWAYS getting 31-power Fighting, so it's essentially a static move for you. Defense Curl + Rollout is useful, but not even on the scale of BBG in Gen 1, and you use that pretty much whenever you can.

[@celticv]

Glad see you back. Hope you're ok 👍. I forgot about mud slap tbh think ponta could make it if wasn't for accuracy drops and fact tackle can miss doesn't help . Most surprised on slowking move set thought at least would had water move

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, it was a it of a chock when it didn't at least have the same set as Slowbro. I assume it's because it's a different evolution, so you don't necessarily have to level up Slowpoke to get Slowking, whereas Slowbro requires the level-ups to evolve

[@celticv]

@GSCPokemonChallenges you do make very good points. doesn't require any lvls . Something didn't think about at time, i guess I just assumed since it's fully evolved

[@johncalabro8710]

Oh man next challenge with the Gengar line is going to be painful and might not work. My predictions Haunter and Gengar relaying on hypnosis, spite and struggle. It might work after serval trys but i don't think so Gastly needs to go in with 1 pp of Hypnosis and zero of lick. Struggle might not even be possible. Muk will due to stats, Harden and even poison gas. I don't think Grimer will make it. Dewgong and Cloyster easy mode. Seel (headbutt), Dunsparce (rage is good in gen 2) and Shelldar (high defense) I think will make it. Onix, Steelix and Forretress will due to the high defense (and protect on Forretress) but it will struggle due to acc drop from mudslap. Pineco will not make it, might not even beat honest Abe. Gligar will make it with maybe after serval resets relaying on Sandattack and poison from the poison Sting.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

I think all fair predictions. I pregamed the fight once with Gengar to see if it was even possible..... I will only say, pain....

[@PKMNwww411_MkII]

Saving the Eeveelutions for a later video.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I want to do Evos together, even when that means doing Johto somewhat out of order

[@johncalabro8710]

Thanks! Hey GSC Pokemon Challenges are you going to continue with the Falkner mini battles? Do you need any help?

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I am continuing! I started the next episode last night.

[@PKMNwww411_MkII]

Pursuit is 40 power and doubles when foe is switching out. Feint Attack is 60 power and never misses.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Got it. So Pursuit is only really good if an opponent has AI to switch

[@davidlee2052]

Nice

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Very nice

[@mackowens7234]

I've never seen Slowking's back sprite. It looks dope!

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, i love the eyes in the back of his Shellder Helm!

[@xardasjhh]

get well soon! you mentioned the fact that stat debuffs are changed in gen 2 but i believe they actually work the same as in gen 1. or am i missing something?

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Wow, I mistook., Only accuracy and evasion were debuffed, for some reason I thought other stats followed the same curve.

[@johncalabro8710]

If you are teaching tms. Dodrio can learn mud slap. It is the only thing useful against rock and steel types

[@johncalabro8710]

Also with Whitney mud slap will make her a joke. Rollout is 90 acc. 2 mud slap changes the fight. I think after 3 acc drops Whitney ai stops using rollout all together.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I am not limiting TMs too much in this series. There will be some like HP and Return that I avoid as much as possible, just because they're not unique, but ultimately the goal is to see if the Pokemon can get through, not if it can do no TMs (yet)

[@johncalabro8710]

It must of felt good to use sandattack after the mus slap in Ponyta attempt

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, sweet revenge there, but getting through with Farfetch'd was painful

[@PKMNwww411_MkII]

Still waiting for Episode 10 to drop.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Coming this week!

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

Get well soon Teo

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Thank you!

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges you're welcome

[@johncalabro8710]

In your display on the Magneton run why does sonic boom say N/A for acc? Isn't it 90 acc?

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

That is an overlay error that I need to fix

[@TechHug]

You know that in Gen 2 and later the move screen has a description of each move, right?

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

I was messing with that trying to see it, but maybe I missed the button to open the menu?

[@TechHug]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges Don't go on the Stats screen. There's a "Move" option under "Switch" when you select a Pokémon in your party.

[@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441]

can u do electrode in pokemon crystal without optional battles?

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

I'm sure electrodes time will shine soon

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

For now I'm going through in *kind of* Pokedex order. We'll get to the Falkner section soon. I plan to do my next full game challenge for 1000 subs, so we'll do a poll then!

[@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441]

@@adventureoflinkmk2 yea doesnt it have sonic boom at level 1? Cause if so thats why I mention it lol. he could probally be 1-3 gym leaders just with that move lol

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

@@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441 I'm not sure honestly...

[@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441]

@@adventureoflinkmk2 just check it does. mainly because u normally dont get a level 5 electrode except like gen 1 trade a riachu level 3 since u can get a pikachu level 3 then thunder stone then trade. so yea thats why electrode can learn sonicboom. and with its high speed it should be able to beat 1-3 gym leaders. the only problem is morty since sonic boom wont work. and I am not so sure if he abuse the save states for game corner cause otherwise electrode doesnt get electric moves

[@LessonSmith]

I hope you make a full and uncomplicated recovery ❤

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Thank you!