How MASS Saves Lives! - Warhammer 3

Some units in Total War: Warhammer 3 can be a real problem if you can't control them. Chariots, Monsters, Lords. We'll learn how to get the blighters with this tactic!
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[@willfeen]

the exception to this is units on 4 legs - warhounds, wolves, etc. Even though they have low mass, they will block/trap any other unit because they don’t have animations for being knocked over

[@mrbouncelol]

Lmao gg game design

[@belisarian6429]

Yea I hate that, game has decent physics engine, but because of missing animations half of the units are not affected by it. So much potential wasted.

[@mrbouncelol]

@@belisarian6429 Seems like you're suggesting real physics calculations between models. Given the performance issues with the current engine I'd have to say that's impossible. But one day

[@belisarian6429]

@@mrbouncelol I am not suggesting expanding of physics engine, just applying already existing engine to all units, not just infantry. Game already has decent working physic engine and it works just fine, but only some units are affected by it. Go into Laboratory mode, turn gravity down and thrown some explosion into infantry, you will see them fly....now do the same for cavalry, they will just stumble in the place and thats it.

[@mrbouncelol]

@@belisarian6429 Well you have a lot more knowledge than I do. I don't play with other game modes. I was just trying to suggest that the computational load of applying the physics to every model might bring to its knees a game that already has performance issues in large battles. If you are saying that the game can already do this in custom mode, then I believe you!

[@johndane9754]

I always found it ridiculous that even little four-legged critters such as cavalry and dogs can't be flung around by creatures bigger than them like the infantry.

[@sirix500111]

I mean, four legs change that dynamic a lot. To a degree, you are right, they should still be flung around a bit, but if you shove 200 pounds of human, they will fall over, if you shove 200 pounds of dog, they are much more likely to just skitter off to the side. Shove 500 pounds of human, and they are more than likely going to fall over, at the very least, you are getting a few steps out of them, shove 500 pounds of horse (that is a small horse by the way) and they will just look at you like you are stupid after taking a step to the side.

[@johndane9754]

@@sirix500111 So you're telling me that a 20ft tall 10-ton giant somehow, for some reason, can't kick something as small as a dog or horse across the nine yard line.

[@sirix500111]

@@johndane9754 so your telling me that that 6 foot, 200 pound guy with a short sword can kill a Gaint? We have suspend our disbelieve a bit.

[@johndane9754]

@@sirix500111 No need to be facetious.

[@vadandrumist1670]

AI: *Takes notes.* CA: *Burns AI's notes.*

[@jadilzoca4971]

0:05 shoutout to that Plaguebearer hitting the air to try help his fellows at least he tried

[@rubz1390]

In short : use anything other than infantry to block stuff.

[@mysterymastermind175]

Ans square formation

[@Thongger]

*cries in dwarf*

[@NyJoanzy]

If you need to block with infantry, use infantry in a block shape.

[@mogambo2445]

@@Thongger use canons

[@Kraykz]

you must have missed the first part of the video

[@tauri9382]

Your tips have saved the Cathay Empire multiple times from the hordes of Chaos. The Dragon Empress thanks you and wishes you peace and harmony.

[@Luke_Danger]

Man, you can tell how effective stopping charges uses to be when I'm habituated to a formation that's 4-5 ranks deep rather than a square. Thanks for these vids, Zerch. Charges were wrecking my stuff in Warhammer III when I was doing my Kislev RoC campaign.

[@ashesofaranea]

damn remember spaghetti lines? and those god damn MVP gaul infantry with javelins? Warhammer total war has a lot of problems but at least they don't do us dirty like that anymore.

[@totalwar-hamster4518]

Great vid. The speed is especially underestimated. As a slaanesh main, i am always horrified by the performance of gorebeast chariots, they basically always get stuck whereas even seeker chariots almost never get trapped. Exalteds are basically unstoppable against the Ai

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

This is the easiest way to spot people who played plenty of singleplayer but are only just starting in MP - no appreciation for mass. Because it's very unusual for the enemy to use regular cycle-charging, you rarely need to stop an enemy unit beyond making sure there is at least something in the way and then feeding in units. Likewise, their big units and especially air units divebomb right into targets and while they won't directly charge units they can't escape, they forget to check for nearby mass. They also try to force-path out units that have no hope of escaping, because they're not used to another player repositioning their mass units to physically block it. No experienced player would drop into a unit of archers when there is a set of Spawn nearby to lock you in until the anti-large arrives.

[@alex_zetsu]

The AI doesn't know how to take advantage of high mass land units. Also, note that at least in Warhammmer 2 although high mass units can knock your infantry around, a lot of those models are not even hurt by the charge and can get back up. It's most obvious when a unit has been whittled down to 7 models and you stick it with a full-strength unit and both get gets charged sending mdoels flying, you can see tiny unit sometimes has its models scattered, but only some of the times it will lose health.

[@WolfeRavenwood]

I don't want to admit how long i tried to figure out where to see the unit's mass. Thank you.

[@the_jester5448]

Played this game for years and first time I knew how to find out the mass. Thank you.

[@kingcorvid3902]

You’re informative videos are a treasure, please make more!

[@philroberts1069]

I've been waiting for pike infantry for a while now which are in Rome 2 etc. I would think pikes would be a good counter to high mass unit over what basic spears can bring- theory being that the soldier would plant the base of the pike into the ground and use the enemy mass against them, maybe something like reflecting charge damage against the high mass unit. Maybe a good unique mechanic for southern realms maybe, phalanx infantry, pike and shot etc. There are a lot of pikes in the dogs of war line up I believe too

[@sirix500111]

they have already added charge refection to a lot of the spear infantry already I do believe.

[@philroberts1069]

@@sirix500111 Ah great, I'll have to look that one up. But a heavy mass unit doing a frontal charge against a spear/pike unit which has their weapons planted shouldn't be able to toss the soldiers around without causing itself severe damage.

[@stalwart56k]

I have to say I love your delivery, tone, and pacing on these videos. It's like we're watching an announcer on a game of football (I mean soccer, I'm American ;)

[@almasyelesbayev736]

How am I gonna stop some big mean Mother-Hubbard from tearin' me a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer? Use a gun. And if that don't work, use more gun.

[@jkhee]

Really digging these Supercuts of highlights. You could just run a lot of videos showing off these highlights and commentary.

[@benedictjajo]

My lord got stuck and couldn't escape from a single unit of ogres while AI chariots escaped like nothing happened after being sandwiched by two Halberds, came back and killed all my precious range units.

[@maryrosetran5109]

I already see the problem. Ogres are large, can't easily escape from large units. Halberdiers are small, a light breeze will topple the allowing escape.

[@benedictjajo]

@@maryrosetran5109 does this also apply to flying units? Cause my lord riding a Pegasus (Warhammer 2) couldn't get out after being surrounded by 2 units of goblins?

[@maryrosetran5109]

@@benedictjajo Pegasus mounts are not that massive so it will have a harder time escaping than a lord in a hypogryph mount. Massive mounts are better at escaping infantry blobs.

[@benedictjajo]

@@maryrosetran5109 I see, thanks for the information.

[@lijileung]

I think for expensive spearman units they should match or almost match the mass of the enemy coming at them only when they are in Formation

[@sirix500111]

to a degree, in 3, they get something similar in charge reflection, but they need time to "brace" which isn't always possible.

[@gurigura4457]

Yeah, it's super annoying to see units just walk through my rank 9 Dragon Guard. The whole point of those sorts of elite defensive units is to hold the line, but I find other units just walk through them, even from a frontal charge.

[@Dunleap]

I kind of know the theory, but its good to get reminder like this.

[@iandestroyerofworlds576]

In a Mass meta around my small group of Total Hammy Bros, I think I'll pick up that square infantry formation. Thank you.

[@ctdaniels7049]

Kairos Fateweaver 🤝 Zerkovich outros Seeing you in the future

[@ctdaniels7049]

Now I know how Kairos feels, because I wanted to make someone laugh in the future, and in the future I saw this and laughed. :P

[@jamieict]

I've often thought it'd be nice if bats/harpies and wolves had a passive ability (on cooldown, so as not to be exploited) that activates when their charge animation begins, which reduces the speed of the unit they're charging. Aside from giving them more utility, it would match their 'tarpit' nature from tabletop. Plus it would make engaging missile cavalry less of a faff overall.

[@jtowensbyiii6018]

They'd go from an amazingly good unit to stupid broken then

[@edwardfontaine7108]

I believe some Hound units have poison and frostbite debuffs which already reduce a units movement speed by a percentage.

[@sim.frischh9781]

So counter chonk with chonk. This is truly enlightening.

[@_Meriwether]

Dwarf cavalry, monstrous units and single entity monsters are particularly good at this

[@matiscouillard1618]

Lol dwarf cavalry??

[@calebbarnhouse496]

@@matiscouillard1618 slayers

[@edwardfontaine7108]

Dwarfs having no great mass in their armies is one of their biggest weaknesses actually.

[@matiscouillard1618]

@@edwardfontaine7108 yeah and that’s why they can be considered balanced

[@drifterodysseus6237]

A unit's mass should change depending on weather they're moving or stationary to reflect charge defense

[@Tuck213]

Got any battle replays? I miss those from you

[@yumisynthia942]

For using the "square formation" with infantry, when they're still actually moving, do they count as braced or not? The formation DOES seem to stop the units from pushing through the line but would Charge Reflection and Charge Defense still apply if the defending unit is still technically moving? For example, at around 2:00, when the Gorbeast chariots plow through that unit of Kossars, the Kossars seemed like they were still finishing up their formation, can anyone confirm if they would be getting their Charge Defense and Charge Reflection (if they had it)? And if they DON'T, would it be worth it to use the square formation in exchange for losing out on those bonuses?

[@bone_zoner]

iirc the models that are not moving count as being braced, so you can still benefit from a square formation as long as enough models get in position in time

[@totalwar-hamster4518]

Most of the time no. You can see the braced icon above the unit card to tell for sure. Whether to brace or not largely depends on the defending units mass / speed. They've been messing with the charge defence recently but with deep infantry i've mostly found it best to brace, and with charge reflection it goes without saying obviously.

[@baconsoup8346]

The brace icon shows when all of the total living models are braced, any model that isn't moving counts as a braced unit it is like Spook said, only learned that today like you.

[@yumisynthia942]

Huh. Good to know! Thanks for the info. Does anyone know if that also pertains to WH2?

[@baconsoup8346]

@@yumisynthia942 idk

[@Archon3960]

Ah, now 'datz da propa orky way ta stop 'da big unz. Just send more boyz into it! xD

[@thanquolrattenherz9665]

does mass affect the damage of charge attacks? i ask because cathay has a spell that increases it so it could be used offensivly probably even aside from breaking records in how far you can throw a peasant.

[@johannesbrahms1655]

My priest would love this video!

[@Satanickus]

Kim Jong Un-style 🤣🤣

[@lmplicando7313]

2:25 SHREK

[@Debilinside]

Very nice explanation how the game works and will make sure to use it. Although it still feels very counter intuitive for me. Any unit charging into elite anti-large units should get stopped.... Its kind of stupid that a mid tier chariot can just trash elite halberds and spears around quite easily. Even braced infantry goes flying.

[@nobady9752]

That square formation example at 1:40 is a bit misleading, because it's a unit of spear kossars. They have charge defense vs. large, so resisted it far harder than infantry without that ability would.

[@Lothi66]

Charge defense vs. large does not work that way. It simply negate charge bonus. Point is chariot stops, not go thru unit.

[@nobady9752]

@@Lothi66 Try it yourself. Charge some stuff into khorne warriors that just sit there braced, then try the same with khorne warriors with halbards. Maybe this is some stuff they changed in TWW3, but I am 100% sure that stuff with charge defense tanked charges better, as far as stopping the charging unit goes.

[@stuffbuyer]

@@nobady9752 like the dude said its only for negating charge bonus. halberds and spears have more mass to stop charges. tooltips show halberds at 160 weight per model compared to 120 for others

[@Artemicion321]

Thank you for triggering my Warhammer 1 Surtha Ek PTSD.

[@mj91212]

I hope CA decides to save Hotseat mode back into their game series.

[@dominicstevens5851]

FoR tHe AlGoRiThM

[@iandestroyerofworlds576]

Hey, Zerk! What is your gaming computer specs?

[@Jufal50]

You could say it's a Mass Effect 😎

[@tjsmith8348]

These videos since around early days WH2 have taught me total war better than the last 12 years of playing have

[@ghoohg551]

Feels bad in Cathay.

[@joelmartindalmas328]

Like for the Kim-Jon-Ung Style!

[@sceema333]

there might be a lot of legendary lords, but surtha ek is the one and only epic lord

[@dariusgreysun]

He's good for 2 things. 1.Getting a war Mammoth early as a Norsca faction. 2. Settra's special mission against him.

[@fedyx1544]

I always knew that thicc thighs save lives

[@donright4492]

Witch Hunter Lance Orc Hunter

[@punchyMiddleEarth]

People talking about how the A.I doesn't account for this so it doesn't matter 🤦 wake up there is another game mode where A.I doesn't exist geniuses

[@Gokudo01]

or use Light lore when it will be avaible ^^

[@mikadsu]

Spear units? 🤔

[@pablonunalvares5391]

Sounds great until you play Skaven in TWWH2 without expansions... The only great mass units are two monstrous infantry that are slow and fragile... Chariots plow through everything. Ended up getting double zaps to get them early on battle or death globadiers to quickly kill them while they maneuver inside...

[@thepiousskeleton6046]

Rat Ogres have 60 speed. That's only marginally slower than elite heavy cav and their fragility is compensated for by the unit they're supporting with their mass.

[@Idontknow-vm1iy]

That’s how the skaven are meant to be. They rely overwhelming numbers and technology

[@michalpiotrgorecki]

There are no dragons in 3, but in 2 single unit of lighgt cav could prevent dragons from taking off. Also slowing them so well other units designed to kill large entities could keep up (like dragon ogres)

[@Johann_Gambolputty_of_Ulm]

"There are no dragons in 3" Miao Ying and Zhao Ming:

[@DJSpike-ft9yw]

Realm of Khorne has a Treeman Rogue Army with Forest dragons.

[@lewishorsman2219]

Has there been a mod that can lock a unit onto another? To just chase a unit down for the entire match/battle? Imagine having skirmish cav whose sole job it is to chase after enemy missile units and you just set them on and ignore (keep an eye on yes) but know that they’ll do their job so you can focus on other jobs

[@jtowensbyiii6018]

Yes, it's called cheating as a cheater

[@edwardfontaine7108]

If you select your skirmish cav then right click on what you want them to shoot at then make sure they are on skirmish mode.

[@richardkneller7887]

Zerk, How the fuck are the dwarves gonna deal with this mass issue?

[@edwardfontaine7108]

They can't. That's one of their biggest weaknesses.

[@grudgebearer1404]

@@edwardfontaine7108 and it makes no sense, a race often called "stunties" that can be shoved around at will. Dwarfs should have way more mass than most of the game's infantry as they're used to fight on tight disciplined formations to counter enemy charges trying to exploit their lack of maneuverability.

[@edwardfontaine7108]

@@grudgebearer1404 I personally think they should get some kind of machine or tool in their roster that could be used to answer this issue: maybe a chariot or some kind of machine? I think it should be slow and not necessarily great at dealing damage.

[@tominieminen66]

Kind of funny that light cav has the same mass as a big ass angry demon

[@bane9951]

Zerk!

[@FDM55]

🔥💪👍

[@donright4492]

The coming of Clan wheretooth Blood and claws Drakwald Forest 2480 As Blood Tail and his 4 brood of Clan weretooth stood in the Drakwald Forest they watched the high elf camp as Blood Tail spoke with an overbearing strong voice blood whisk you take take Claw Fang and flank the right side of the Elvin things camp camp howling Paws and screech tail you take the left side of the camp camp when you hear my second howl attack attack for tonight Clan wheretooth makes its Mark Mark as Blood tail look back at the Elf camp he out a huge howl as they I'll give them to their beastly side their bodies throbbed expanded as muscles bulged out their body as ears got larger and pointier long nails grew to be sharp like talons they grew huge towering over one another as their long tails whipped out then blood tail leaped at the Elvin homemade guard tower As Captain Saltar bladewind Stood in his Camp he heard of strange creatures as he double the guard for the night he did not like being this close by the Drakwald Forest at night As The high Elf spearman watch the forest on this night they were spooked hearing stories from the locals of Middenland villages to their mind it was beastmen that they were afraid of then Out of the shadows of the forest they noticed Green like eyes staring back at them Blood Tail flew as he concentrated all of his power and body size right into the tower itself like a cannonball he shattered it ramming his large tail claws right into the side tower he struck like fury at the High Elf body puncturing his sides of his armor while latching on to him as they elf spearman's heard the crash they looked up where the noise was as it was the tower wood debris scattered over the camp as many Elf woke up arming their selves than captain Saltar came out already arm and half dress only wearing his silk garments and chainmail as he look up at the broken tower in alter Horror Blood Tail flew he concentrated all of his power and body size right into the tower itself like a cannonball as he shattered it ramming his large tail claws right into the side High Elf body puncturing his sides of his armor while latching on to him Then Captain Saltar ordered his bow men let loose But The Huge creature notice as He bit into the armor of his pray before throwing it right at The Bowman The High Elf Bowman fire with alarm they notice a body heading towards their way as they scattered to get out of the way as it badly torn carcass hit the ground causing it to ruptured into the ground Then Blood Tail leaped right off the tower Landing right in the amongst the ranks of The Bowman as he slashed open multiple Elf Bowmen tearing into their ranks left and right as bloody limbs fell to the ground Then three spearmen thrusted their Spears at huge beast it jumped upward before flipping downward right back into one of Them crushing one of Elf spearman head wide open Like a melon it exploded in red mist captain Saltar charge the foul beast himself as he managed to slash its backside while it was distracted The beast roared in pain it swiped its claws at Saltar leaping backwards onto his feet as whererat Green eyes focused On Saltar Saltar realizing up close it was a Skaven rats ogre no it showed intelligence and discipline then it looked right at him as it hiss words I'm Gonna Kill Kill You as it Howl Then captain Saltar heard it Howl once more but this was different as heard his men now fighting on the other side of the camp showing that he was never alone as Saltar look on in Horror seeing more of them as They rip the spearman in the half with there a huge claws moving really fast as huge like rats fought well coronated Then captain Saltar look back at the creature that was coming towards him pointing his sword outward if I'm too Fall then you will go with me As Blood Tail flipped right over Saltar sword slash as his large tail wrapped around his neck flipping him right into one of the camp tents before landing down to his feet then elf captain crashed right into the tent only the slash open it charging right back out As he thrusted upward with his sword as Blood Tail leap backwards Landing on his feet then high elf captain leap forwards with a thrust of his sword as Blood Tail let out a subsonic howl ruptured Saltar and his ears as the Howl finally blew him back onto the ground dazed and confused the last thing he ever saw was huge claws slashing right into his chainmail as he felt the claws slashed open the chainmail wide open and into his delicate flesh lifting him off his feet and back onto the other side of the camp ground on his face Blood Tail slowly headed towards him As Saltar wheezed for air he felt his ribs shattered and felt his blood flow into the ground he managed to look up at the skaven were beast . Blood tail Stood over him you Fought Fought well now you die die As he ran his sharp talons and ripped right into Saltar flash the elf captain in scream in horrifying blood curdling agony then the Night wer on the camp went silent only for the sound of bone crunching and flesh ripping as a blood curling Howl pierce the night Forest of Gloom border princess As moontooth sit on thrown carved in stone it glowed with bluish ruins Then one of his children came in As it was blood tail the old gray seer we're blue grayish robes his He had no eyes only empty eye sockets that a black silk scarf that wrapped around the empty eye sockets that glow a bluish hue He had no horns only huge overbearing pointed ears Then a small black fur skaven lean down in front of moon tooth Wearing bronze chainmail And a Orc tooth necklace That he wore around his neck Then Moon tooth looked down and spoke with a voice overbearing strong voice blood tail did you kill Kill the elven army on the edge of Drakwald Forest yes yes my master I bring you head head of their leader Then Blood Tail raised up Captain Saltar bloodied and severed head It drip was little blood and hand it to Moon tooth the old gray seer looked at it sniffing it then he licked it slowly and thoroughly he back at blood tail you've done well well you did not lose any of your Pack Brothers No no losses we all fought strong strong and feasted well on Elven things flesh flesh Then Moon tooth Started ripping the flesh off the head Savoring each bit of it in his mouth His sharp razor tooth muzzle moved up down eating the soft delicate Elven flesh then he replied with a warning and caution we we must tread carefully for we are new And must set our Mark Mark carefully and then we will show the other clans why we are the strongest of them all all then he lifted the pick blood clean skull up into the air blood tail and others in the pack howled into the Moon ready themselves for they're coming into skaven Clan society

[@srdjan455]

So thick thighs saves lives?

[@cedricklabbe6680]

How is that giant friggin demon only 600kg

[@hectorvivasjimenez9768]

This is broken... 1 unit skink stops a heavy chaos chavalry... is ridiculous

[@eugenekrabs869]

Disliking for the North Korea comment American

[@timt962]

This is a second video on this topic, and it's 100% repetitive. The first one was released over a year ago. Is zerkovich out of things to cover in TW Warhammer series? I doubt it. Why waste your time covering the same topic then? Why not cover some new tactics?

[@muhammadsaduddin308]

That's for wh2, this for wh3

[@jtowensbyiii6018]

Someone didn't watch the video and obviously has no clue what they're crying about