How Mormons Tell Their History

I visited the Mormon history museum there. I found it fascinating, not for revealing anything new to me, since I was already delving deep into Mormon history, but for how they were trying to deal with the various issues of that history. I expected it to basically be a propaganda center, afterall it is directly run by the church of Latter Day Saints, but they are in-fact a museum and are working within professional standards of interpretation and exhibition.
M. Laser History: @MLaserHistory
Mr. Terry History: @MrTerry
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Bibliography
Alex Beam, American Crucifixion: The Murder of Joseph Smith and the Fate of the Mormon Church (New York: Public Affairs, 2017). amzn.to/4ceNcOD
Michael S. Durham, Desert Between the Mountains: Mormons, Miners, Padres, Mountain Men, and the Opening of the Great Basin, 1772-1869 (New York: Henry Holt, 1997). amzn.to/3VIV06d
Essays on American Indian and Mormon History, eds. P. Jane Hafen and Brenden W. Rensink (Salt Lake City: University of Utah Press, 2019). amzn.to/4bOFsmJ
Benjamin E. Park, American Zion: A New History of Mormonism (New York: Liveright Publishing, 2024). amzn.to/4bQWDnJ
The Missouri Mormon Experience, ed. Thomas M. Spencer (Columbia: University of Missouri Press, 2010). amzn.to/3xb4ihI
John G. Turner, Brigham Young: Pioneer Prophet (Cambridge, Mass.: Belknap Press of Harvard University, 2012). amzn.to/3Xeqzpi
Richard S. Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History, 2nd ed. (1986; Salt Lake City, UT: Signature Books, 1989). amzn.to/3VvxsRU
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Wiki: The Church History Museum, formerly the Museum of Church History and Art, is the premier museum operated by the Church History Department of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). It is located in Salt Lake City, Utah, and is opposite the west gates of the church's Temple Square.
Hashtags: #history #mormon #LDS

[@iammrbeat]

You wouldn't believe how much harassment I have been getting from Mormons about my Mormon history video. It was really eye-opening. I mean, I'm not perfect and my video's not perfect, but I was pretty transparent about where I was getting my information from. They'd rather attack me by calling me a liar than attack my sources. They'd also rather attack me than attack the guy who said he found golden plates in a hill that God placed for him to find.

[@DonnyTinyHands]

@@iammrbeat Mr Breast give me money 🤑🤑

[@CynicalHistorian]

Strangely, I've already had two commenters asking me to debunk your video. Hate to break it to them, yours is pretty much the best there can be in such a short timeframe. I think they're mad because you called Joseph Smith a conman. He was convicted for it, so that's simply true, but they're angry because it implies their whole religion is a con job. I wouldn't claim one way or the other, since it's not my place as a historian to determine "true beliefs." But Mormons cannot honestly deny that Smith had committed fraud before creating their scripture and it is very possible that he did so again with their religion. Challenging fundamental myths is always gonna anger those who identify with them. So be it. In attacking you, they are merely revealing their own ignorance

[@23joanlee]

@@CynicalHistorian you, my friend, are one of the clearest, coolest and informed/informing minds in this confounded internet universe. i'm sure you don't intend to but do not stop. you are a most valuable journalist/intellect/ally and could not be easily replaced. the best have failed before but just ride the waves if any come your way. only you can bring you down but methinks you are not that type. your mind/content is brilliant, entertaining and downright cool. thanks, cousin. ps no offense to you or us but geeks rule.

[@Luna-McLu]

I'm an ex-mormon and there is definately a hive mind in defence of the history of the church. I thought your video was great. I've learned so much in the 10+ years since I left and shake my head at some of the things I used to believe 😅

[@justinlkriner]

I did't hate your video but it did feel a bit more biased than your other videos. Clearly you intended for people to to get a little upset at your video since you ended by saying "Joseph Smith is a con artist, and anyone who says otherwise is whitewashing history". You've been on the internet long enough to know that's gonna cause a flame war.

[@Catmint309]

My partner is Exmo. She says while she was a kid in the 2000s the church went through a noticeable change from “let’s ignore the bad parts of our history” to “let’s acknowledge it but explain why it’s okay”. There’s a culture of acknowledgement that wasn’t as strong a few decades ago

[@JohnHunterPlayerr]

Sounds pretty German to me

[@Rbedwards94]

"Let's acknowledge it but explain why it's okay" ..uhhh..?

[@Catmint309]

@@Rbedwards94 I mean, it’s still bad but when you’re living among the attitude it’s a drastic change. Imagine being told “no this never happened” and then one day you’re told “it did happen, but here’s why…” you’re gonna be much more focused on the fact it happened it all. That can be legitimately life changing for lots of people, even with the explanation as to why it’s okay.

[@Mordecrox]

​@@Catmint309so gaslighting but they're changing butane for propane

[@Pretermit_Sound]

“Exmo”. I like that. Like a cooler version of “Elmo” 😉

[@michaelwoller6450]

As someone who grew up Mormon in Utah and found out later in his life the amount of stuff they don’t tell us about our history, I’m excited to see if anything still managed to slip by what I’ve learned!

[@askavetstudent]

Go find “Naked Mormonism” podcast- chronological, serialized Mormon history

[@HelloThere-xx1ct]

@@michaelwoller6450 ever heard of the Second Anointing? It’s a secret second endowment given only to a select few members.

[@JulioHendricks-r8n]

I would say that would be about 90%. I can give you an example because it's something that I just found recently, and that is the official story or reasons that lead to the official story and why the Mormon church has extremely sanitized what is being told concerning Joseph Smith and the retrieval of the plates. as you already know, Joseph Smith after saying his prayers climbed into bed and then sometime in the night was awakened by a bright light filling up his room and in that light was a being identifying himself as moroni. this appearance would happen two more times, preventing Joseph Smith from getting any sleep. The only actual true element in this story is that it happened at night. The wild tales surrounding Joseph Smith in the plates, if the truth were told, the church would be desolate. So there are different historical accounts by people outside Mormon dogma, and some of them divulged their story times, some of which were even members of Joseph Smith's family. what you're told about the retrieval of the plates is intertwined with this story that they use for Joseph Smith and his encounter with Moroni. That is not the way it happened, and I know this because it's from Joseph Smith's own lips. He told the mother and sister of Lorenzo Saunders on how he retrieved the plates. He said that he was in the woods praying And while doing so an angel came to him and touched him on his shoulders and he arose, and this angel would tell him about the golden plates and where to find them. He would receive the plates one year from the day this location was revealed, on the condition that his brother be with him. this would mean his oldest brother Alvin, But unfortunately he died before the year was out. Lorenzo Saunders was but a boy when he overheard the conversation Joseph was having with his mother and sister. The reason why I believe Joseph Smith might have told this story to the mother and sister rather than waiting for Benjamin Saunders, is because Joseph Smith had his eyes on Lorenzo's sister. The reason why I say this, will be revealed momentarily. I noticed the story Joseph Smith changes depending on the listener. It is the exact same thing that he did with this vision in the woods. depending on who he was talking to, certain elements of the story would either be omitted and/or tweaked. An interview with Joseph Smith's father reveals just that, and I have to give this to you verbatim because paraphrasing it just simply doesn't do it justice. "the eldest Smith declared that his son (Joseph) had seen the spirit, (which he then described as a little old man with a long beard), and was informed that under certain circumstances, eventually should obtain great treasures, and that in due time he would furnish Joseph with a book, which would give him an account of the ancient inhabitants of this country; the antediluvians, and where they deposited their substance... which have ever since that time remained secure in the spirit's charge, in large spacious chambers, and sundry places in the vicinity. ' So now it's not an angel at this point, because this seems to be an earlier recollection by a gentleman named Abner Cole February 14th 1831. Here is where some of these elements come together showing that Joseph Smith was picking and choosing who would actually get the 'angel' or 'spirit' version. In a lot of these stories sometimes Joseph would use spirit in lieu of Angel, but it when it came to close family and friends, both guardian of the treasures and spirit were used interchangeably or add both. it's the pattern I'm seeing, a lot of people that didn't have such high views of the Smith family, heard the angel version. those Joseph Smith trusted with more of the details, he would give them the spirit/guardian version. One thing that had been consistent throughout these stories is the date which was the 22nd day of September. this particular story is told by Willard Chase through an affidavit on December 11th 1833. "I was told that some years ago, a spirit had appeared to Joseph Smith, in a vision and informed him that in a certain place there was a record on plates of gold and that he was the person that must obtain them, and this must he must do in the following manner: on the 22nd day of September he must repair to the place where was deposited this manuscript, dressed in black clothes, riding a black horse, with a switch tail, and demand the book in a certain name, and after obtaining it he must go directly away and neither lay it down nor look behind him. they accordingly fitted out Joseph Smith with a suit of black clothes and borrowed a black horse... fearing someone might discover where he had gotten the plates, he laid it down to place the top stone back over the box as he found it; upon turning around to his surprise there was no book in sight. He again opened the box and in it saw the book, and attempted to remove it, but was hindered. He saw in the box something like a toad, which assumed the appearance of a man, and struck him on the side of the head." Most Mormons aware of this quote believe that Willard Chase was lying but that can't be the case, because they would have to say that his mother was lying too. Her version, again from Joseph jr.'s mouth... "... He laid the record down in order to cover up the box less someone should come along and take away whatever else might be deposited there. when he turned again to take up the record it was gone but where he knew not, nor did he know by what means it was taken away. He was much alarmed by this. He kneeled down and asked the Lord why was that the record was taken from him. The angel appears to him and tells him that he has not done as commanded and that he laid down the record in order to secure some imaginary treasure that remained. after further conversation with Joseph he was then permitted to raise the stone again and there he beheld the plates same as before. He reached forth his hands to try and take them but was thrown to the ground. when he recovered the angel was gone and arose and went to the house." While it does not give a year, what I told you before about the certain elements changing of the story depends on who he's talking to. Another thing I notice is that when he's always talking to a female concerning these weird bullshit things that he would make up, he would also use the word angel. It shows you right here that his mother got pretty much the exact same story that Willard Chase told, but when retrieving the plates, there is no mention of a toad in the version he gave his mom. in Willard Chase's version, It was the toad that prevented him from taking the plates, and no mention of kneeling to ask God why they were gone as he told his mother. I the Willard version, he was knocked to the ground by the magic man-toad, but the Lucy Smith version he was knocked to the ground, and the "angel" was gone. I believe Joseph Smith gave his mother this version because she was already on to his bullshit. I have reason to believe that there were doubts that his mother had in the stories she would hear from Joseph. So he adds the element of praying to God, he doesn't mention that the toad transformed into a man and then punched him upside the head. He instead leads her to believe that it was the angel that knocked him to the ground. Now he does this with the vision in the woods. And there are actually six different versions, not five. You have of course the one that he told the mother and sister of Lorenzo Saunders, then the version that he would give 10 years later when he is 28, then the sanitized version given in the canonized Book of Mormon, there is another version given to Brigham Young, and an alternate version of that given to Charles Anthon, And yet, as if that wasn't already tiring, another version that was printed in the ensign magazine and 1861. I think the last version was the one he told Lorenzo Saunders. this guy was a liar and a con man and anyone believing even one iota of whatever fell out of this man's mouth, would have to be retarded!

[@arcofspira]

Last time I was this early, polygamy was still legal in Utah

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

That's really early... i mean Mitt Romney was born in Mexico BECAUSE by then the mainline Mormons frowned upon such practices and those dabbling in it fled to third World countries to live like Colonizers in Ghetto like enclaves.

[@LockeDemosthenes2]

@@arcofspira Fun Utah fact, Polygamy is actually still decriminalized here. Like, it's still largely frowned upon, but you also can't really be prosecuted for practicing it.

[@aersla1731]

Such a shame, I came to utah too late.

[@garrettolsen3416]

I'm from Utah, I'm not Mormon. And this is a lie. You and your facts are false and uninformed.

[@Mr.E723]

I think South Park would describe this place as…… “DUMB, DUMB, DUMB, DUMB, DUMB!!!!” Lol

[@shaggythewriter8185]

Brigham Young's greatest contribution to mankind was being a great Sherlock Holmes villain 😅

[@thebeatnumber]

Study In Scarlet! First "serious" book I ever read when I was 11 years old. Still one of my favourites to this day as a 35 year old

[@KendraAndTheLaw]

He informed mankind of our true god and father: Adam/Michael /s

[@thebeatnumber]

@KendraAndTheLaw He was a lying child rapist

[@stnsfnst]

that, and his descendant Superbowl MVP, Hall of Famer, Steve Young

[@JeevesAnthrozaurUS]

"Americans really don't like people proclaiming to be monarchs" Of course not, that would impugn upon the Majesty of Norton I., Emperor of the United States, Protector of Mexico

[@sstrykert]

Rome loves their monarchs though 🤫

[@kegawinek7628]

I shall pay forth unto him his Sovereign Grant and homage upon my return to Boozeland.

[@beefgoat80]

My aunt was a mormon. She gave to the church quite a lot. When my uncle died, and she needed help, LDS told her to pray.

[@gbengoosewuru4139]

Interesting. The church helped my parents with the rent and food when I was a kid.

[@neil2831]

​@@gbengoosewuru4139interesting

[@benjaminvandenberghe9726]

Hope that didn’t happen. Typically local wards will help with basic needs.

[@Bobjdobbs]

@@benjaminvandenberghe9726This is not entirely true.

[@ethanm2926]

As a faithful member of the church, i appreciate the comments and criticisms of the church museum. There's a couple of things you mention i take some issue with, but those are minor comments at best. Still though, I do know for a time we were not acknowledging the skeletons in our proverbial closet, and you are correct in that we are trying to be better, of which I am personally grateful for as it doesnt help anyone to stick our heads in the sand and ignore it. I actually took a required class on early history of the church at BYU and it was genuinely pretty good as the professor did not shy much from a lot of the messier side of things. Although, im sure there were plenty of details missing as is the nature of a single semester class. In addition, the obvious bias in that the more miraculous events were indeed true, which from a historical/archeological perspective requires more concrete evidence to claim such. So i can say from personal experience, even in our higher education programs we are trying to be better. Ultimately, i didn't know about some of the historical stuff you mentioned, but given what i know of american history and my own church, it's not wholly unsurprising, nor is faith destroying for me personally. If anything to me, it shows the humanity of it all. Also, as someone born out in the southwest, that upcoming book sounds rather interesting, and I'll have to give it a look when it's published.

[@CynicalHistorian]

It's derived from my dissertation, so you can always check that out for free

[@HelloThere-xx1ct]

@@ethanm2926 Wondering if you know about the Second Anointing? Always interesting to see what members know these days. I can’t wait for the day when I can say the average believing Mormon knows more about their religion than me. It’s never happened but I hope it does. P.S. Said with love as a friend of the church. I helped watch the kids in the temple waiting room for my member friend’s wedding a couple years back and have been to more meetings than I can’t count, back when they were long too!

[@ScottFunk-us6ro]

The more you learn about Mormons, the crazier and less Christian they become.

[@kassylee813]

An interesting thing that you should look into is that the church teaches about American natives coming from Jerusalem… everything contradicts this and there is no evidence of such

[@evgeniigavrilov6707]

Golden plates lol . Bunch of dimwits

[@fugguhber4699]

52 years ago, my mother worked for Glenn Young, grandson of Brigham Young; he was a shady character, and when he had tax problems, well, there was a mysterious fire at the office, and all the records burned in the fire. My mother was unemployed. O' Glenn, he was a shfty one.

[@DonnyTinyHands]

The cat wanted to learn more about Mormonism.

[@scottessery100]

🐈

[@greenamber9827]

Meowrmewnism.

[@zainmudassir2964]

Cat should learn Islam

[@jelly_fischer]

????

[@KendraAndTheLaw]

mormon mice are extra tasty

[@eric98292]

Love that random guy saying "This whole place is a lie".

[@samwill7259]

They also might not want to acknowledge the Mormon splinters because every single Mormon splinter religion is even MORE whacked out and culty than the main one.

[@kirtmanwaring3629]

Yeah, hard disagree also. The Community of Christ is more mainline than the mainline protestants these days and they're by far the largest one.

[@mouthymormonmetalhea]

Community of Christ is pretty down to earth in my opinion.

[@sketchygetchey8299]

I really enjoyed Ben Park’s works (American Zion, and Kingdom of Nauvoo). One of the things he stresses is that the story of Mormonism is a reflection of the story of America. And just like how the Church is slowly coming to grips with its past (though reluctantly), America is also slowly coming to grips with its past (also rather reluctantly with some loud voices calling it “woke” 🙄).

[@scottessery100]

I thought he said naboo

[@sstrykert]

It came to grips with that past in the 70's & 80's. How much more of a grip do you need to get?

[@sketchygetchey8299]

@@sstrykertMassacre at Mountain Meadows was never published around that time. Plus the story about how Joseph Smith received the First Vision and translated the Golden Plates shared only one narrative that the Church stuck with. Nor have they gone that much in depth about the Church practicing polygamy until the age of information started booming (the internet and such). It wasn’t until relatively recently until they openly acknowledged (and shared) different First Vision Accounts, talked about Joseph Smith putting a stone in a hat to translate, or openly talk about polygamy (talking about stuff like that beforehand would’ve been considered “anti-Mormon”). And they have a lot more stuff they need to grapple with…

[@sketchygetchey8299]

@@sstrykertThose Gospel Topic Essays talking about the Church’s controversial history is relatively new (as in NOT 70’s or 80’s). Massacre at Mountain Meadows didn’t come out at that time, and the multiple First Vision accounts weren’t as talked about as well as there various methods of how Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon. And polygamy wasn’t as talked about until the age of the information started booming and Church officials were left with no choice but to acknowledge that it happened (I’d continue, but we’d be here for a long time). Talking about all of that before then would’ve been considered “anti-Mormon”. And the Church still has a lot more to grapple with (their fights with the Native Americans, for example).

[@animehero343]

Appreciate the banner at the end saying 'including this channel' it shows me you're interested in history as history and not a commodity

[@magarzoglman]

I am an ex-mormon and recently went to that history museum with some people from my church. I didn’t know they had actually put a seer stone section in, when I saw it all I could do was stare at it and think “wow if I had seen this in a church history museum when I was young, after being taught what I was taught, my faith would have been destroyed much faster”. I couldn’t believe that they had that proudly displayed.

[@bobocomments]

How did you think the translation happened when you believed?

[@magarzoglman]

@ I was taught that Joseph smith did it with the Urim and Thummim which were provided with the gold plates, and while looking directly at the plates. Growing up there were always images of Joseph studying the gold plates at a table with his eyes. Not by looking into a hat with a seer’s stone, I was actually taught that was anti-mormon lies.

[@ethangulbranson4121]

@@magarzoglmansame here and I’m tired of Mormons trying to gaslight me into thinking otherwise. There are so many teachings that all of a sudden aren’t official doctrine anymore and “was never taught”.

[@randoms7113]

@@ethangulbranson4121me too. I grew up Mormon in the 80s90s and 00s. Served a mission. The rock in the hat translation was anti Mormon as well as polgamy etc until it came out as truth. Younger Mormons love telling me I was confused or misunderstood and it’s my fault for not knowing its history not the church’s. You really don’t know what you’re in until you leave it.

[@terrillmel]

A few years back I told my coworker that the Church recently opened up about having the seer stone in their possession and showed him a picture from the church news. He told me the church was just lying about it to get everyone to drop it.

[@dayalasingh5853]

5:52 also as someone who studies Linguistics there's also obviously the Linguistic problem. There are a *lot* of language families in the Americas, more diversity than could develop during any period during which an Israelite identity existed, more diversity than even if speakers of Proto Semitic had migrated. Because even if we push it back to Proto Semitic, then the languages of the Americas would just be Semitic languages, as identifiable as Semitic languages as Hebrew, Arabic, Amharic, Maalouli, Soqotri, and others are today.

[@richardhoffman5769]

@@dayalasingh5853 sorry no, how much language can change isolated from its mother tongue in 2000 years. Night and day

[@dayalasingh5853]

@richardhoffman5769 You are correct, language can indeed change a lot in a very short amount of time, especially when there's a big human migration. One great example is the Kra-Dai languages which recent research supports split from Proto Austronesian, possibly only a bit over 200 years ago. If this is true this would mean that the Thai language of Thailand is related to Hawaiian, despite the two languages being very very different and a connection between them not being well accepted until the past couple years. But what made this theory become more accepted recently is that the recent proponents have been able to find the things necessary for proving a relation. These being words that seem to come from the same origin, and have similar meanings. An example for Semitic languages would be the Hebrew word Shalom, and the Arabic word Salaam, both meaning peace, the name for these related words is cognates. An important part of finding cognates is that they can't just look similar at first glance, but that it's like a puzzle, you have to look for all examples of Hebrew "sh" and Arabic "s" and see if they match up, this is because when sounds change in languages the change tends to be regular, so for a proposal to be taken seriously it should be able to propose regular sound changes. Right now Linguists have been unable to find good cognates not just between Proto Semitic and any indigenous language to the Americas, but between many indigenous languages too. Haida is currently not linked to any other language in the world, but bigger families like the Algic family can't be reliably linked to something like say the Iroquoian or Uto-Aztecan family. However I'm not going to outright say you're wrong, but I'm going to ask that if you make a proposal counter to the current concencus, that you back it up with a proposal that shows the same rigor as the proponents of linking Kra-Dai to Austronesian have. I'm going to ask you, and I will genuinely hear you out, to find at least 15, but preferably 30 good cognates with regular sound changes between Proto Iroquoian and either Proto Semitic, or Hebrew. The reason I'm asking for Proto Iroquoian specifically is because it's the Proto language I'm most familiar with, so I'll be able to respond to your findings well, it hasn't had a lot written on it but what was written is well written so you won't have read a whole bunch of books and papers on the matter. In fact you're really just going to want to use "A History of the Iroquoian Languages" by Charles Julian, published by the University of Manitoba, which is available completely free online which is the other reason I suggested this, that none of the important research is behind a university paywall. Additionally once you've read the thesis you'll notice that there's a lot more Proto North Iroquoian reconstructions than Proto Iroquoian reconstructions for reasons that will be clear when you read it so I'm going to say it's also totally fine if your list of 15-30 includes cognates from Proto North Iroquoian, so long as you apply the proposed sound changes in reverse and reconstruct a hypothetical Proto Iroquoian form. Also a good resource that I recommend to you, also completely free online is the website of the Index Diachronica, which has a massive list of proposed sound changes by historical linguists, which can give you a good idea of what sound correspondences to use in your reconstruction. Good luck and once you have this proposal complete feel free to respond to me here and we can discuss this over email, or if you have any interesting breakthroughs before then or have any further questions. Edit: also should say biblical or older Hebrew, not modern Hebrew for obvious reasons. Unfortunately I don't read much about Hebrew so you'll have to find a good resource for a list of Biblical Hebrew words yourself, but I'm sure there's a dictionary or something out there.

[@richardhoffman5769]

@ here’s my proposal. 1. 90-95% of the indigenous population was wiped out by Spanish conquest and disease. We have no idea what was lost. 2.The Book of Mormon claims to be the history of one group in the americas not all of them. 3. The idea that modern linguists have mapped all indigenous languages in the Americas is simply not realistic.

[@dayalasingh5853]

@@richardhoffman5769 if that's your proposal then that does not contradict what I said, I said that if all the indigenous languages of the Americas were descended from Hebrew we'd be able to tell and you disagreed with me, saying "sorry, no". Why did you disagree then, do you still? Do you then concede this?

[@richardhoffman5769]

@ which paragraph did you say that in?

[@4everseekingwisdom690]

I want to see a replica of those insanely impossible gold plates that are either 12 ft tall or small ones with magic characters on them that are equal to 80 words each.. or it's a stack of several hundred plates weighing thousands of pounds..

[@sponko]

Its weird growing up mormon where you're encouraged to learn about your church, but only from church approved sources. These videos help a lot of people that are susceptible to these manipulation tactics because they break down the truth to facts instead of feelings. Thank you for posting despite thr hate you will inevitably receive for this.

[@joeanderson9045]

I grew up in Nauvoo in the 80's and 90's and it was pretty weird. At one point, an ice cream shop on the main drag was bought out and the name changed to "Porter's Place", for the assassin Porter Rockwell. The only place in town where I could buy comics off a spinner rack was the Mormon bookstore in town. And the church employed a guy to follow cars after dark in his truck to ensure that we werent messing with Mormon property.

[@AgentBirdnest]

I grew up Mormon in northern Utah. I've been to that museum a few times, as a kid and teenager. It's been 20 years since I've seen it (and stopped believing since then.) It's really interesting to see them being so much more transparent now! Most of the stuff in this video was hush-hush, just 20 years ago. There's still a long way to go, but I'm glad they are addressing some of that stuff openly. It was cool to see the museum again in this video and hear your insights. Awesome video, Cypher. 🙂

[@kcrain07]

Ok, I've been mormon all my life, have Mormon ancestors who joined the church in 1850 and emigrated from England and Scotland to Utah, took Church History classes as an undergrad at BYU, and hear about Church history as part of the sunday school curriculum on a 4 year rotation, and this is the first time I have ever heard of the 1856 Mormon Reformation.

[@terrlaw328]

You must not be educated in your cult nor a critical thinker.

[@monicacall7532]

I hadn’t heard of the reformation until I started seriously studying church history. It was a terrible thing and Mountain Meadows was a direct result of BY and George A Smith going on the warpath and trying to force everyone to become “better”.

[@therongjr]

This video helps me realize that museums aren't really meant to be exhaustive and 100% accurate. As a biological scientist, I've often felt vaguely irritated by the "Lies to children"-type feel to natural history museums. I think I understand now why they make me feel that way: I expect more from them than what they are (or even could be).

[@23joanlee]

i recall as a young man i found out- not embarrassingly- that most if not all of the 'worldly treasures' in the collection @ the carnegie museum of art/ancient wing, pittsburgh, were straight up copies. fakes. downright counterfeits. some even (the giant doors to an ancient city being one i personally trembled before-they're enormous) upon cursory investigation were full on papier mache. for years i was aghast and bummed. i've come to realize that moving those artworks would be detrimental if not destructive and i was (as well as millions of others) able to see, react to , study and even revere these magnificent works w/ mine own eyes. not to mention several of them actually no longer exist yet these facsimiles represent them in full on 1:1 glory. very very accurate representations- not copies! no one was hustling these 'fakes', true artists, artisans and scientists engaged in these preservation efforts. brilliantly in most cases, i might add. it's worth noting the difference between the value of each- artifact vs artistic copy, but the exposure and experience are still there today. but most importantly i know about these things, i know what they really consist of and i know what they are really worth. that having been said...the 'natural history museum at carnegie mellon' is a slanderous, cartoonish joke. two different curators i guess????? and the carnegie art museum, btw, is a world treasure and worth the trip to pittsburgh by itself. real artworks, no fakes. cezanne to dali to warhol pollack and renoir, they have it. ultra modern artists, too. yes, several basquiats. a panel of 'water lillies', an actual panel. sumptuous.

[@michaelfisher7170]

how do they tell their story? with barrels of honey covering a mountain of obfuscation. I know. They taught me.

[@brianwestberry9117]

love seeing you with Mr. terry and Mr. beat. Great video

[@davea6314]

The next time a Mormon missionary shows up on your doorstep, ask them why it took until 1978 for their church to allow black men to become priests.

[@michaeldallaway1988]

What will that achieve? It's nice to play these scenes in your head but a lot of missionary work often isn't to 'convert' but to confirm to young adults how 'terrible' the world outside is. By looking for a 'gotchya' moment I'm not sure what is achieved. You're also risking that they don't already have an answer lined up. Just be kind, smile and say you're not interested.

[@HelloThere-xx1ct]

They will actually have a answer. A bad one but they know about this. What they are less likely to know about is surprisngly Joseph Smith's polygamy. This is still one of the main reasons members leave the church after they learn independently about him marrying a 14 year old or many other member's wives after he sent them on missions.

[@overtoke]

@@michaeldallaway1988 mormons help make the world a terrible place just like any other religious group.

[@kadenstimpson3167]

​@@michaeldallaway1988serving a mission is often the ultimate reason to leave the church. for many, its the worst 2 years of their life. don't make it worse. be a friendly, normal non-member.

[@bunnerkins]

Next time you talk to an American, ask them why in the year 2024, the privacy of women's health records aren't protected by legislation but men's are.

[@Chronoplague]

Joseph Smith declaring himself king is one of my favorite things I learned about during my faith crisis. The church can't dismiss the document it comes from either, because the Council of Fifty is essential to the LDS claim that Young was Smith's chosen successor! My favorite part is that members of the council were clearly talking about it outside their secret meetings, because Joseph has to tell them to use the title "Proper Source" instead of king!

[@MLaserHistory]

The best part of this museum was Cypher talking about the history rather than the exhibition itself. That was quite boring and too propagandy for me.

[@CynicalHistorian]

Thanks, LOL. The pioneer museum was so much worse though. Just random junk strewn about the place. Though the Golden Spike was super cool to see

[@edflintlaw]

I live in St. George, Utah, was born a Jew and adopted by Mormons 64 years ago, and I noticed the primary names of 1857 are still the primary names running shit in Southern Utah, also called Dixie. 163 years later, nothing has changed.

[@CynicalHistorian]

Kinda difficult to avoid descendents of participants in Utah's Dixie. Juanita Brooks herself was one

[@sstrykert]

You were born a specific religion? Interesting.

[@weirdlanguageguy]

@sstrykert What do you mean? Are you unfamiliar with ethnoreligions?

[@sstrykert]

@@weirdlanguageguy you mean like the Ethiopian & Afghan Jews?

[@sstrykert]

@@weirdlanguageguy like the ones in Ethiopia & Afghanistan?

[@savannahcook7246]

Great video! Thank you! As an exmo who has done LOTS of research into church history and doctrine this video contained so many things I never knew!

[@unluckyone1655]

Im an exmo and this museum is basically how church history was taught to me growing up. So much is left out and the rest obfuscated to make things sound better than it actually was. Poligamy for instance was actually pretty horrible for the majority of the women involved, but the church teachers wont tell you that (probably bc they get their info from official church teaching material too)

[@brycetomecek5065]

ExMo here. I second this. There’s so much history not taught to its members. They lie about everything.

[@rockfordlines3547]

I think it's hard to make the claim that "Polygamy ... was actually pretty horrible" since you're interpreting feelings of people over a hundred years ago. It's easy to say that a number of people died in a massacre or that the federal government tried for years to remove Brigham as territorial governor, but hard to claim feelings or life status. While you claim polygamy was terrible for women, the church is claiming it was good. I'm not sure either conclusion comes from anything real. It would be different if the claim was, "Polygamy was so bad that 40% of women got divorced from their polygamous husbands", but heck, even in FLDS there isn't that much dissent.

[@Neb7200]

Oh my gosh your cat is so cute. Wonderful vid as always

[@theconqueringram5295]

I swear, Mormons have such a deep iceberg. Still, I would love to visit out of curiosity.

[@stalemateib3600]

I think this is the earliest I've ever been to a video by Cynical Historian. A former Mormon attended university with me a decade ago. He was friendly but usually quiet. (Also, it's my birthday.)

[@TylerChambers-yx2lx]

Cypher, your channel is great. I also love studying history, and while the kind of history that you focus on here is not really the kind of history that is my favorite (I prefer the struggles of third revolutions against colonialism, and the new ideological ground that was broken in the 20th century), your aura of charisma, credibility and, integrity along with sharing parts of your life story proves to be a very likable experience.

[@CynicalHistorian]

Thanks. I've gotta focus on what suits my expertise, since that's the only way to maintain my own interests. I'm glad you get something out of it nonetheless

[@TylerChambers-yx2lx]

@ your welcome. I do not know what KZbin would do without historians who actually take the title seriously, so thank YOU for your making sure that your channel would not be without such a manager of integrity.

[@TylerChambers-yx2lx]

@ also, I meant to ask you: can you PLEASE do a Living through important historical events livestream for geopolitics as a whole, especially given what just happened in Syria?

[@BZAKether]

I guess it is a good sign that they are acknowledging their real history, even if they continue to hide some parts. I know little about religions but I think that it could be positive if all old religions of the world could take this approach.

[@sawyerwylie3991]

What parts of history do you think the formal church organization continue to intentionally hide?

[@LaMosesJones]

Q: How Mormons tell their history A: Poorly

[@JeremyFling]

Not true and how dare you say that about my religion sir and get a life

[@LaMosesJones]

@@JeremyFling Go find my apology with the golden plates in Joseph Smith's hat.

[@JeremyFling]

@ or how about I talk about ur fake religion

[@pecathat2010]

In the words of Brigham Young; "I don't care how you brigham, just brigham young."

[@angelbeatzbell4057]

As a member of the church, this is by far one of the the fairest secular approaches to our history that I have seen in a video, thanks for putting in the time to do all this research!

[@evgeniigavrilov6707]

It’s a cult, not a church

[@KendraAndTheLaw]

@@evgeniigavrilov6707 All the billions are held by a separate corporation

[@lukaslambs5780]

Genuine question, has there ever been someone in history who has claimed to have had a divine revelation of any kind that made them believe that someone other than themself/their group of people were “the chosen ones”? I especially wonder this with believers of predestination, do any of them just go “welp, unfortunately it wasn’t meant to be and I won’t be in heaven and nothing can change that!”

[@yrobtsvt]

Jikigyō Miroku thought that Mount Fuji told him that the shoguns of Japan were "the chosen ones" and had the power to bring about Heaven on Earth.

[@nebulan]

1:13 wow that describes all my friends who are still active. It's a dwindling number because more of us have stopped going cuz why shouldn't our friends Derek and Kyle be allowed to marry??

[@crisdekker8223]

16:50 Did King Richard just meow Beethoven?

[@CynicalHistorian]

I think he did, LOL. His meows get very squeaky when I pick him up

[@Chelle_Vibes]

Just saw the professional title in your introduction! Been a bit since I've tuned in, so I don't know how long it's been there. In any event, congratulations 🎉🎉!

[@CynicalHistorian]

Started being a professor at UNM in Spring of 2020

[@timmiestabrnak]

Fun fact: John D Lee is an ancestor of Utah senator Mike Lee.

[@JohnHunterPlayerr]

As a southerner, I've learned never to trust a man with that last name.

[@sudonim7552]

@@JohnHunterPlayerr Bruce Lee gets a pass though right

[@JohnHunterPlayerr]

@sudonim7552 ok ... I don't trust a Whyte named Lee on principle. Mr Asian Lee can get a pass. Also he wasn't born a Lee if I remember correctly.

[@acronen]

Fun fact: John D Lee was a racist, murdering scumbag... and he's the less despicable of the 2.

[@Elora445]

@@JohnHunterPlayerr Technically, he was. Born as Lee Jun-fan.

[@seldomseenn]

That pioneer museum has little to no interpretation, but some of the artifacts on display are quite extraordinary. The nails used in local homes hammered out of the burned wagons of Johnstons army at ft bridger were quite fascinating, along with a single relic axe head found at the mountain meadows site. It takes a long time to even find these small items in the sea of randomness but if one takes the time gems and knows the background history they hold some serious weight. I recommend the book “the Mormon rebellion” for more background on Utah war and accounts of the first federal agents sent to the Utah territory, it gives a different perception than what was taught in gradeschool in this state, though you probably can skip all the background church history info. Hoped you guys liked the pie pizza!

[@pjk9225]

Given your creds as a PhD specialized in American political violence, to what degree do you feel equipped to comment on the rise of modern political violence? In particular, were there any times when the violence seemed inevitable but the situation was “depressurized”?

[@nuggetoftruth-ericking7489]

This was interesting. Thanks.

[@snaaail]

That guy at the museum saying the whole place is a lie was correct

[@EricaCalman]

There's a little museum in San Diego run by the LDS church dedicated to the mormon battalion and its similar. Not blatant propaganda but definitely very biased and playing up how they helped with the construction of early old town San Diego (which is true) but erasing any hint the battalion ever got near violence, which is ironic because they actually helped prevent the Temecula massacre from escalating but also the war they joined in was the mexican american war which gets awkward for them for several reasons.

[@sabredance87]

From one history loving cat owner guy to another just wanted to say love the content!

[@ThommyofThenn]

This should be illuminating. I did not give Mormonism the time to understand it beyond the most general of terms. Since having met with several of their members who came by and talked with my roommates a few times, i realised there had to be a lot more going on and that got my curiosity going

[@GilTheDragon]

The idea of a Mormon history museum is interesting because even more than other extant branches of christianity, it is very mythopoetic. But like i suspect that it wont be worse or more fanciful than the texas history museum at austin which so abrogued their duty that my ap history class in mexico organized field to go gawk at it...

[@Pretermit_Sound]

8:46 eh, some seem to be getting more and more fine with it. Just as long as you call it something else. As long as a political figure uses a word that’s synonymous with monarchy, but not a term traditionally used in that context, some people seem worryingly comfortable with it 😳

[@JadeCryptOfWonders]

I was taken on a business trip to America by my father, whose business partner was a Mormon. Said Mormon took us on a hike where he pointed at a rock with a Native American inscription on it, and claimed this was evidence Jesus had come to America. As an Australian tourist, this was all new to me, and although I’m skeptical of these claims in my thirties, when I was fourteen I listened to this as mythology and lore rather than history.

[@CTRmotherheckrs]

“The worst exhibit was downstairs” heh… me too, buddy

[@dannydorito1]

Yay a new vid! Love it, thanks so much!!

[@Kellethorn]

If you ever want a REALLY chilling/unsettling Mormon museum... You HAVE to check out the Hutchings Museum in Lehi Utah. I don't want to spoil much, but it's pretty much everything you'd expect to find in a church-run museum with less funding and attention from headquarters. My wife and I went and... we still talk about it as the weirdest "unexpected Halloween in spring" surprise we've ever had. Some notable entries off the top of my head: -Grand entrance doubles as a WW2 exhibit, but with an unexpected twist. Two huge flags dominate your view hanging from the ceiling. Left, Nahtzee. Right, Imperial Japanese. And each half of the room is FILLED with literal wâr trophies. We're talking everything from katanas to German helmets with buIIet holes, to literal, blóod-soaked journals taken from Japanese soldiers. And the entire tone is "celebratory" and how mormons from lehi Utah really "stuck it to the j*ps/kr**ts". Yeah. It's bad. Oh, and the american stuff? Tucked away in a corner you almost have to U-turn to see. Clearly not the focus. Their treatment of Mormon/Amerindian affairs was equally self-aggrandizing and focused exclusively on how well the "two" groups got along (yes, "two", according to them...). Some other honorable mentions include an exhibit on frontier justice built inside the historic jail cell, complete with mannequins of some WILDLY stereotypical "mexican" and "indian" men behind bars (note: no "white" mannequins), an exhibit you could mistake for a SHRINE dedicated to Porter Rockwell, and an actual piece of humân skîn leather hanging on the wall for...reasons.... You seriously can't make this stuff up. But it's a MUST SEE if you're into museums, and how groups try and portray themselves to the public.

[@Avinkwep]

I was there just this year, cool to see you make a video about it

[@CynicalHistorian]

We were there in April

[@Avinkwep]

@ I was there in March

[@tampa8136]

A now-deceased uncle by marriage (to one of my mother's sisters) who lived to nearly age 99 was a direct lineal descendant of "The Prophet," Joseph Smith -- he said more than once that his grandmother told him that the rest of their family thought that Smith was "as crazy as a bug"

[@terrlaw328]

Your uncle was right !

[@nuggdimmadome2192]

Doc, I think you could even explore your dissertion further and really dive into how these violent conflicts have shaped Americans views on religion and specifically Christianity over these past few hundred years because I really feel like most of our domestic history has been trying to pull the western territories into the fold and only just recently have we been able to sit back and really explore what american culture is and means long-term. This is my first time seeing your content, but it's really quite brilliant and thought-provoking. You've earned my sub!

[@thebeatnumber]

Fun fact: In August 2011, the Albemarle County, Virginia, school board removed the Arthur Conan Doyle classic "A Study in Scarlet" from the district's sixth-grade required reading list following complaints from students and parents that the book was derogatory toward Mormons

[@terrlaw328]

That school board ought to be ashamed of themselves and replaced by critical thinkers.

[@CaliCarpetbagger]

Based on your statement, when you stated a museum must be open and honest with research standards, and if it lapsed into trying to convert visitors by expounding dogma, I’m sincerely curious how the Creation Museum in Kentucky gets away with what they do.

[@CynicalHistorian]

It's not a museum. It's for-profit, so fails at the most basic level

[@skyler8460]

As an exmormon I don’t know if I see that positive side of them showing a more honest side of the history. It seems to me they are still making choices to deliberately leave out pieces of history and present it in a not totally honest way. Even if it’s more honest I think it’s because they have to respond to pressure from more truth being available but they are still leaving things out to keep their members in the dark on their history and manipulate them in whatever what they still can. I don’t think it’s a choice to be better, I think it’s a response to public pressure and modern availability of information on the church.

[@skyler8460]

@@dffndjdjd That too 100%, totally off limit in a ward setting

[@SantaRPG]

I agree 100% The substitute the truth with a half truth so people can feel they "already know" all the dirt in church history.

[@mizotter]

The recent uproar about the New Introduction on the BOM app that had to be demoted to Further Explanation after members demanded church leaders bring back The Old Introduction suggests that members do not believe that the Lord demanded the change! How can LDS retain social control and keep the tithes coming if members question their authority to control information? But members appear to accept the new Garment Guidance as divinely-inspired? And what about Temple Spires? The Lord is all over the place on the issue! Should it be the biggest? Pointed? Rounded? Why can't the Lord respect local building codes?

[@ekpennock]

I like taking people to the pioneer museum, even though there's no interpretation. At least it's a museum where inconvenient mormon artifacts can be displayed. It's very cool if you know what to look for

[@scottessery100]

I’m descended from Plymouth breatherns … there’s a LOT of historical similarities just less violence

[@robmurphy806]

13:51 I have a close friend thats actually a descendant from Porter Rockwell. He's not mormon or even religious however, but in a strange coincidence lives near to the LDS Priesthood Restoration Site. Ironically his wedding was down the road from there, but like I said, hes not religious, I don't even think his family is.

[@landon4278]

I noticed in this video that the list left out the Aiken Party Massacre October 6, 1857 near Nephi, Utah. It’s super important in contextualizing Mountain Meadows as it occurred less than a month after and shares similarities with MMM. Very little academic research has been done on the massacre and I think it’s absolutely necessary as it undermines the idea that MMM was accomplished by rogue actors. It adds credibility to the idea that the LDS church at least implicitly if not directly supported the murdering and robbing I’d wagon trains known to have cattle and money. I can’t support this statement but part of me thinks that Brigham’s ban on trading with wagon trains was done in part to find out how much money wagon trains were carrying by learning how willing they were to pay premiums as they passed through the Utah territory.

[@CynicalHistorian]

That's part of the Utah War, so obviously included in the list

[@gbengoosewuru4139]

You seem well versed on the Aiken Party Massacre. Do you remember what evidence was found and used to connect LDS church officials to the massacre?

[@landon4278]

@ the perpetrators were Porter Rockwell and Bill Hickman aka Brigham’s Hammer. But im less interested in establishing blame for Aiken. What I think it does is demonstrates that the church didn’t see Mountain Meadows as wrong. Brigham’s message to let the wagon train pass comes conveniently late as a CYA, and then he doesn’t stop anyone from behaving the same way in the future. Members seem to have carte blanche from the church to do what they want so long as the church leaders can establish plausible deniability. To me Aiken says that Brigham’s ‘let them pass’ message wasn’t intended to be a policy and that Brigham let it happen knowing from experience what people were capable of.

[@gbengoosewuru4139]

@@landon4278 Juanita Brooks, through her research wrote: "Brigham Young, either directly or through intermediaries, had told those handling the Aiken party to see THAT THEY PASSED UNHARMED." You have an uphill battle trying to prove otherwise because that is what the data points to.

[@anonymousanonymous7250]

Interesting that this video comes out the same day Netflix releases a trailer for a limited series coming out in January set during the Mormon wars starring Taylor Kitsch.

[@Peecamarke]

Great video! 👍🏿

[@AhsokaFanboy1138]

I had no real insight into the Mormons until I watched Murder Among the Mormons. I'm a bit curious to hear how the Salt Lake Museum explains that and handles authentication now.

[@mkshft_atmsmshr]

Highly recommend the book "The Bear River Massacre: A Shoshone History" by Darren Parry, a Shoshone tribe official.

[@weezerwookie]

horay, been looking forward to your take on Mormon history

[@djscratchnsniff]

thanks for the video

[@savannahcook7246]

I agree that so much of that information would help Mormons understand their history better. Unfortunately, that’s kinda the point. They don’t want their members to know anything about their messy messy history. (Saying this as an exmo)

[@kdavidson1386]

I am a born and raised Mormon from Utah that can trace my genealogy back to the first wagon trains. Some part of me is genuinely heartbroken that my ancestors followed such an obvious lie. The thought and hopes of eternal “family” is the only thing that keeps the contract going. That and its intertwining community if you attend. I want so badly to believe that when I die I will see my deceased family again. It’s depressing to realize I probably won’t!

[@Sableonix]

Wow, even coming back to videos like this it's epic to find out that the hero of the story never really talks about the part where they did a couple of bad things, like hiding the price of freedom from their children so that are not aware of the shame placed on the loser of the hero's story. (Note: I did not say "bad guy"...)

[@Frivolitility]

I dreamed I saw Joe Hall last night Alive as you or me Says I "But Joe, you're ten years dead" "I never died," said he. "I never died," said he. Couldn't resist. Joe Hill was a labor folk hero here in Salt Lake City.

[@jaythizzle1969]

Every Mormon I’ve ever met is super nice.

[@23joanlee]

you oughta meet my ex-wife. sheesh.

[@levifowler7933]

Look at their reactions to debunking. It gets ugly very quickly.

[@HelloThere-xx1ct]

@@jaythizzle1969 Isn’t that a little concerning? All people aren’t nice. That’s just a fact. Only through control and behavior modification can you make a large group of people all “come off as nice”. Also they’re only nice essentially to recruit you. It’s a cult tactic called love bombing.

[@JaneyJJJ]

There is the problem... No monolithic group is all nice😢

[@unluckyone1655]

@jaythizzle1969 don't fall for it. It is totally all a facade. Believe me in my ward, there was so much adultery and child abuse and boy did ppl gossip

[@chadmccoy8032]

Wow, a religious leader acknowledging that their ancestors did horrible things is quite surprising.

[@johnhudson7357]

When a Religion is formed by a delousional lie , the lie will be their belief.

[@jonathanmoore3130]

What was the name of that Hamilton rip off music video?

[@fcruz43215]

Good work

[@doomdimensiondweller5627]

I always kind of liked Mormonism. I am not a Mormon first off I just want to say that I am an agnostic Atheist I guess. 1: They are just so nice and outgoing, I realize this is an attempt to bring people to the faith but still 2: Their emphasis on sacrifice is kind of admirable especially as I get older and grown more disillusioned with the hedonism and selfishness of modern society. 3: Those temples are so cool. Also I always felt the polygmay thing was unfair, they stopped doing that in like 1912 first off, second Islam and other faiths still do it so if you have an issue with it take it up with them, third from a modern 2 consenting adults framework what is wrong with polygamy.

[@gbengoosewuru4139]

Your #1 comment made me giggle. I never knew that's why we're nice. I thought it was to be like Jesus. Bringing people to the faith is a byproduct.

[@foodforfree7963]

You forgot to add skirmish at grass Valley 1865 to California 1:59

[@L_Train]

3:44 1898-1989 how cool

[@randycampbell6307]

I'm a bit confused about the African American's not being able to "be" Mormon until the 70s as I got the impression that one of the Police Chiefs for Ogden in the 50s was black. (And I thought was Mormon)

[@kirtmanwaring3629]

They could be Mormon, they couldn't be part of the Priesthood/clergy. That's the nuance for whatever it's worth.

[@randycampbell6307]

@@kirtmanwaring3629 And Ogden is a bit of an outlier anyway so that makes a lot of sense. Thanks

[@kilendil]

​@@kirtmanwaring3629 Not just that. Black members couldn't go into the temple and get their endowments or be sealed to their families. The long and short of it is they were barred from heaven.

[@jupiterkansas]

What's wrong with art museums?

[@welcometonebalia]

Thank you.

[@danfairfw]

Ah, does the museum have the episode of South Park with Joseph Smith?

[@Flowshow88]

I have never met a single woman who came across the morman relegion and decided to join it. That has always rubbed me the wrong way

[@katherineburtt2502]

I come from a Mormon family, and from literally the highest percentage Mormon town in Utah (No, not Provo), and there is a (state mandated) two whole years of history in public school about the “history of Utah” that is basically propaganda and mythologized history of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, and it was full of outright lies. And we sure learned a lot about Missouri and Illinois for the class being about Utah. Descendants of Mormon settlers in Utah really do see themselves as entirely separate from the greater westward expansion. They are taught that there were only a few gentile fur trappers and even fewer indigenous people in the area before the Mormon settlement, and that for the most part, they willingly left, and the few acts of violence against indigenous people were done by the U.S. Military (who were bad people and entirely separate from the settlers). They actively teach that Utah is a separate and distinct entity that is apart from the rest of the country, and that this is literally the chosen land (despite the garden of Eden being in Missouri), and that they only became a state because they couldn’t be their own country (kind of true). I wish I had one of my old textbooks to send you. I’m hoping that the material has been revised since I was in school (I had junior high Utah Studies class in 2007), but I doubt it.

[@existentialcrisisactor]

Extra credits for the awesome cat credits roll!

[@orchidrose1410]

My house over looks the bear River massacre site. The horrible things that the Mormons have done to the native tribes in the area did not end with the massacre. Mormon, still on the land that was once Shoshone land, and they have completely priced them out of the market.

[@DoctorBiobrain]

The cake is a lie. 🍰

[@carolyearsley]

The rabbit hole goes even deeper. Do a net search for, spelled in reverse, "teewS R.J."

[@fredjohnson9833]

Are you doing a review of The Order?

[@joshuasweetman4903]

8:46 Emperor Norton I was liked- nevermind that he was a vagabond who died penniless.

[@jenniferfullmer4783]

I remember the brouhaha when I was little, back in the 70s, about the Church's treatment of black folks. It's a bit better now, but look at the racial makeup of the Quorum of apostles.

[@PhilosoShysGameChannel]

We'd be curious to see you cover the lamanite placement program if you haven't already.

[@dispergosum]

As someone who tries to live the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I appreciate the straightforward and honest effort of the established history-tube lately when looking at the history of my faith.

[@HelloThere-xx1ct]

Come on man. Just say Mormon. If you don't want people to think you're in a cult you have to less obviously obsessively try to correct people using a name that the church spent millions of dollars in the last decade promoting. Like you have to realize it comes off as insane. I probably spent more than an hour of my life watching "I AM A MORMON" videos along with everyone else on the planet. If only God could have tipped off his living prophet that using the name "Mormon" wasn't okay before he wasted millions of tithe payer dollars promoting that exact name. Well I guess "heavenly father" isn't perfect either. Makes me feel better when I also make a whoopsie at work. I would suggest just saying "the Chruch". Everyone will know what you're talking about given context and you don't come off as bowing to the insane whims of a billion dollar organization that speaks for a supreme diety that obviously admits to having trouble communicating with his chosen prophets given the significant changes that come every decade or so.