How Much Do Games Value Your Time? | Calculating In-Game Payments

Games often "reward" you for playing by giving you things like in-game currencies to spend in their stores. But how much are those in-game rewards worth in *real money*? Exactly how much do these games think your time is worth? Are they big payouts that actually reward you, or chump change designed to make you pull out your credit card to get what you want? Ellen jumped into 7 different games to find out how much they valued her time, and hoo boy, they don't make it easy.
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Outside Xtra is a companion channel to Outside Xbox, covering the wider world of gaming with weekly list videos, Let's Plays and shows with your hosts Ellen and Luke. Look for regular appearances by OG Outside Xboxers Andy, Jane and Mike, and generally more of the videos you love, about more of the platforms you enjoy, from a team now two people larger overall.
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[@outsidextra]

How much do games value your time? Ellen decided to find out using in-game rewards and a lot of maths...

[@BruderEngel]

Did you guys actually get an education grant? I know Jane mentioned it in passing but considering how some of Ellen's videos have gone it makes me think it wasn't just a quib remark.

[@BrotherAlpha]

This needs to be sent to James Stephanie Sterling. They have been one of the leading voices when it comes to video game monetization.

[@PLAYER_42069]

I know these videos are comedy bits and aimed at a specific audience (gamers), but this one was very informative and educational. It's the definition of empirical research! The irony is Animal Crossing: New Horizon's wasn't included like Luke mentioned at the end since it's one of the grindiest games of all. It would be interesting to see how much players ear per hour in not just Bells, but also Nook Miles since that's the newest currency and incentive to grind.

[@VonBlade]

I do the opposite when buying a game. Hades cost me about 0.2p for every hour I played, whilst Tekken 7 was about £4 an hour. I know which I feel better about. (Elite Dangerous works out at an amount per hour so low I'd have to be post-WW2 Hungarian inflation to make it equal real cash)

[@krispiccini6046]

We need to add Predator Hunting Grounds...

[@AndrewLanxonPhotography]

I always wondered why Luke left working with me to be a games journalist. Now, seeing him hold that whiteboard like a pro, I get it.

[@katfromthekong414]

😂😂😂

[@BogeyTheBear]

I can't believe Ellen threw away a perfectly lucrative degree in tree carving to end up crunching numbers on -YewCube- KZbin.

[@seand7042]

@@BogeyTheBear that's a deep cut

[@FumblesWumbles]

@@BogeyTheBear *yewchewb

[@RoughThief]

Yes officer, I'd like to report a murder.

[@BruderEngel]

I love how the Ellen height camera cuts Luke's head off completely.

[@MurrayTheMac]

I mean, we're assuming that's Luke. How can we tell?

[@jensensnare2173]

Thats not luke thats talking whiteboards

[@gruggerduggerhoose]

“Whiteboard boi” could be literally anyone. Well... anyone over the height of 7”3 lol

[@havcola6983]

I kept waiting for it to stop being funny but it never stopped being funny.

[@Bigguyinblack]

How tall are they?

[@WolfRose11]

We need more "Ellen explains things on white boards," this was fun to watch.

[@jaketheauroran]

They need to get Jane to critique the science like Andy critiques the art. Much like Andy points out Pikachu's tail shape, I want to hear Jane point out that the net money earned isn't proportioned to a precise amount of time.

[@EGRJ]

It's weird to see the team actually using The Clipboard™ for more than just a "[checks notes]" gag.

[@tamago2474]

A video I didn't know I needed 😂 Great job guys!

[@recklessroges]

It was really good.

[@Max-ps9mg]

I love Ellen's mad scientist/annoyed overcooked chef energy

[@LeoAngora]

"Silence, whiteboard boy" made me laugh a lot... until I remembered that that kind of phrases are actually common in academia.

[@CantankerousDave]

Otherwise known as Teaching Assistants (ie. the ones who do all the actual teaching, since professors are focused on getting published).

[@brentage5000]

"Agree with me." "....Yes, it will!" And the true boss and hierarchy of Oxtra is revealed.

[@morethanmoth]

Was there any question?

[@wyattgehlen8251]

Ellen breaking character and laughing every time she's mean/aggressive toward Luke is the most wholesome thing I've yet to see on this channel. And yes, that includes the Pikachu drawing challenge and the Kirby yarn doll.

[@Omegamario]

I just love the fact Ellen went to this length as I try to stay as free to play as possible on many of these games and did wonder how much it is per hour. Bravo stuff here for sure

[@SimuLord]

I'm on the opposite mathematical side of this argument in a way. I categorically refuse to play games with microtransactions and/or loot boxes...but when I do buy games (at full price for a complete experience, and almost never from AAA developers), I figure out how much an hour of play (hours played/dollars spent including DLC) will cost me. For some games, like Fallout New Vegas or American Truck Simulator, I've paid less than five cents for every hour of entertainment. Even more modest games I don't have literally thousands of hours in are down below the 50 cents my mother gave five-year-old me to play a couple of games Pac-Man in 1982 while she settled a Chinese restaurant bill. Gaming's been good to me for 40 years. In part because AAA games and mobile Skinner boxes can pound sand.

[@aka-47k]

@@SimuLord i say this is absolute bad. how many game hours does suicide squad has? or forspoken? but is it worth even a penny? isnt it negative since you have to suffer through terrible story? i say better a 5 hour game that has great story then 100 boring hours. or negative hours that are litterally torture like in the games above.

[@TheSerbianEmperor]

This is a great video and it shows well how the phrase all AAA publishers use "but you can earn it all in game without ever paying a dime" is utter bullcrap as the time you'd need to earn something is generally not worth playing with almost every AAA game nowadays.

[@mikoto7693]

Yeah I was somehow surprised to learn game’s really don’t value my time.

[@joelsmith7078]

It's probably a harder conversion rate, but I'm also curious as to how this translates back into the games themselves. Are you actually getting more per hour or are some of these games just more expensive to buy things in which then makes it *look* more rewarding, but only because that game charges $10 for a blue gun as opposed to the less rewarding game which only charges you $1 for the same metaphorical blue gun.

[@magzpayne]

Yeah they completely omit the fact that the publishers decide the prices for in game items themselves hence they can make it look like you "earn" more in their game. If you can't convert it to cash you haven't earned anything, it's just the devs and publishers inflating their own ego by comparing who can squeeze the most money out of players while still making them believe they're getting payed. I had really hoped more people would see through this but judging by the like/dislike ratio most people seem to actually prefer working and gambling, not gaming

[@outsidextra]

@@magzpayne this is a VERY late reply, but was just having a peruse and stumbled across your reply. We do actually say this is just what the publishers have said the stuff in-game is worth, in our conclusion around 31:43. But we just note that's it's "a whole different kettle of fish" because we could easily talk/rant for another 30 minutes about whether we think a skin in a game is actually worth the amount they charge for it, and there isn't a super easy way to compare across games (they don't all have the same blue gun/cosmetic, so it ends up being a bit more subjective). I'd hope from the overall tone of the video and the conclusion that most people can see that this isn't encouraging anyone to work and gamble over actually playing games. Quite the opposite. - E

[@Sogeking79]

The other factor not mentioned is that the longer you play the more time between level ups so the fewer rewards.

[@j_m_valentin4743]

Always love when white board boy appears. He should co host a KZbin channel or something

[@RedKytten]

Luke: "I don't want to hold things up" Or hold them straight... apparently. :)

[@halcyon_echo42]

That was gold haha

[@CaedoGenesis]

This is an excellent video, and definitely something worth keeping in mind for monetary systems. Would love to see a part 2!

[@lauramarschmallow2922]

Where they collect a bunch of lootboxes and calculate the actual worth of the content?

[@Ceece20]

@@lauramarschmallow2922 and then multiply that result % against the calculated number.

[@bonybloke905]

This and the PS phone video, they're just top notch. Definitely need more views.

[@Shannonnr]

“Time is money… not much in video games” had me ROLLING

[@TheWretchedOwl]

I love watching Ellen try to boss Luke around but she just can’t help saying please and thank you. 😄

[@bertcornelissen6294]

Well she does say it in a British accent so that's a 50/50 chance she's using please and thank you ironically.

[@travisspaulding5835]

Enjoying this “OX Reports” series

[@melvinkachere8782]

I would like this to be more often occurring also

[@insainraven9875]

And that is definite the name for it in my head now, no changing it

[@TheHUEZOX]

isnt it "Oxplain"? its in the title

[@insainraven9875]

@@TheHUEZOX that requires me to click the drop down menu which I obviously didn’t do

[@TheHUEZOX]

@@insainraven9875 drop down menu? whats that? like youre watching on a phone, right?

[@CheerfulSpider]

I am a hundred percent here for more Ellen game sciencing!

[@Eckister]

Ellen: "You cannot cash these out for real money ..." Me, already on the phone with EA Support: "..... yeah ... you know what Tim? Fine. I will be magnanimous and will settle for that discount on my next purchase..."

[@aodyssey6601]

Meta question: How much do Ellen thinks Luke’s time is worth? Good for her getting into the scienceing tho

[@chriscombs21886]

28:56

[@JachAnen]

About 5 raffle tickets an hour should do it I think

[@dexterpearson8689]

@Aodyssey That's a good question. Luke does need to practice his board cleaning and holding skills. However, he was still a good friend, especially when Ellen nearly fell into a spiral near the end. And, he did encourage Ellen to summarize for the home-viewing audience. Hmmm..., priceless - 1000 GBP? IDK.

[@isaactimmins8959]

@@dexterpearson8689 tbh 1000 GBP is about the price of 2 pints in a london pub,

[@dexterpearson8689]

@@isaactimmins8959 Wow..., did not know that. Hmmm..., well, the good friend formula for Luke still works: priceless - 2 pints = discounted priceless.

[@voltzoen6262]

This is a nice sample sized insight on the psychology behind micro transactions supported by factual evidence using scientific process. Is it the only way to acquire the data? maybe not, but Its a great exposition on the current trend of online game modes and how they operate. Great work Ellen and the talking White board!

[@Ceece20]

I do like it because it is just a glimpse; conversation starter into micro transaction economy. Would love it if we could make a site that would gather data like this to show people. Even just random people playing 1 hr at random times to gather data.

[@kathrynredmond5294]

@@Ceece20 I promised myself I wouldn’t make any more spreadsheets this year and here you are making me want to break that promise.

[@AdamusPrime24]

I love how whenever we have an Ellen-focused feature, Luke becomes Al the tall guy, from the Naked Gun movies XD

[@CantankerousDave]

Favorite gag - the lieutenant looks up and says, “Ed, you’ve got something in your teeth.” The guy reaches up out of frame, there’s a “pop!”, and half a banana thuds onto the table.

[@justforkicks5112]

The economics in video games are actually really interesting. If you get the balance wrong you either are a millionaire by the end of the game after youve bought everything, or you have to grind to get enough money to complete the game

[@NormanReaddis]

NFT games make it a level higher

[@callumdonington2227]

Sounds like real life.

[@ethanrobyn2399]

Jane's mad scientist-ness has rubbed off on Ellen and now she has gone too far,poor Whiteboard Boy.Whiteboard Boy really reminds me of someone tall that got experimented on and has turned into a whiteboard holder.

[@brentage5000]

Andy?

[@ilsingr5750]

@@brentage5000 Andy isn't that tall

[@SevCaswell]

And this poor specimin is even a father, Whiteboard Holder Jr has a lot to live up too...

[@MadnessInLivingColor]

The diminutive Ellen telling off her towering “whiteboard man” Luke has me rolling laughing! But jokes aside, this was truly inspired work and should be required watching for anyone starting a game with any form of microtransactions.

[@danielollett9783]

Just wanted to add another comment requesting these Oxplain videos keep coming, whenever you can. Really interesting content this week, and after calculating Sonic's top speed I'm looking forward to whatever comes next 👍

[@mikoto7693]

Yes this was insightful. I might apply the equation to Star Trek online which has… four different currencies I think. Only one of which is buyable with real money and conversion methods are tricky. Oh wait there are five currencies sorry.

[@MrMBinder]

This is pretty interesting. Coincidentally, I rarely play games with this kind of system - mainly because of this kind of system.

[@kassandra7313]

I agree! The times that I do play games like this, I tend to stick to the ones that you have to pay like $40 at once to get anything good so that I'm not as tempted. Wouldn't stop a whale, but luckily I do Not have the money to be one of those.

[@joeldfisher]

waiting for this seemingly innocent and light hearted video to blow the gaming industry wide open

[@GrizzlyBearable]

This was a really good video and I really appreciated the message at the end, but it’s also worth pointing out that it’s not just a test of patience. These practices and actively pray on vulnerable people who are more likely to spend their money on it when they shouldn’t

[@nekohina]

I feel level up rewards shouldn't be included in your hourly earnings unless the rewards is consistent and level ups occur within roughly a fixed amount of time/games.

[@MinistryOfMagic_DoM]

I love that it was impossible to frame Luke with his head in frame while also keeping Ellen and everything else in frame.

[@Fr0zenEagle]

This really shows how little you actually get in games that work with a microtransaction-based ingame currency monetary system. The fact that you often have to play hours a day to earn even a fraction of what you'd simply buy with a tenner is ridiculously sad. In case it wasn't obvious, I really miss the old days where $60 got you a full game you could play and enjoy for more than 100 hours.

[@akmal94ibrahim]

And now it's creeping its way into single player games like in AC Valhalla (& Odyssey and Origins). Even a single player game now roadblocks you to grind so they can frustrate and manipulate you into buying the items with real money to skip the grinding. And like psychopaths, they call it "player choice". No! Player choise is when you gave us cheatcodes. Not our credit card number as the codes.

[@ilsingr5750]

@@akmal94ibrahim I find that most all of the single player games with micro transactions are made by ubisoft

[@evanshearin6490]

It takes presenters on the level of Luke and Ellen to make it fun to watch someone doing math.

[@nathanabel8169]

I'm mostly appreciative they aren't using any generic or common gags. They just are doing the math and their usual banter and chemistry fills the gaps. It's great.

[@Binary-]

25:30 I guess you could say it was more... Assassin's Steed

[@mastermaddog]

I feel like there is a Jimquisition somewhere watching this video and nodding their head and I am here for it.

[@penguingonemad]

Ellen! That was a really well put together video, thank you for all the time you clearly put into making it. Luke! Buddy, you held that whiteboard up so well!

[@broccoli896]

Just want to appreciate how clean Ellen's circle is at 28:56

[@SonicRooncoPrime]

I'm pretty sure Ellen just got the entire OX crew blacklisted by all of these companies, especially with that (completely accurate) breakdown at the end. It was worth it though, great work and thank you, OXtra!

[@rovaan57]

This is the hard hitting game journalism I love to see, keep up the great work!

[@NickPiers]

Luke: "The whiteboard fell on the floor. It wasn't my fault." It's true. A spider knocked it over. A REALLY big spider. Don't tell Ellen.

[@brentage5000]

*gasp* Luke's in league with the spiders....my God.

[@Sableagle]

If that's Bogbereth respawning, remind her what happened last time she got too close to a Hobbit with a butterknife.

[@notoriousbmc1]

This was actually really interesting and I'm glad I didn't have to worry my own brain with maths, again. Thank you, Average Gamer and Whiteboard Boy! 👍

[@CRKerekanich]

I just love this, because y’all are great to watch and the banter is fantastic. The money part is negligible. You could just entirely make up the math and I’d still be enjoying this.

[@Raymondocha]

Another way of looking at how much you can 'earn' in an hour is how much it costs to buy an hours worth of progress. For £3.86, you can get one hour of progress in SWBF2, or 24 hours of progress in FIFA21. Having said that, I know this is mostly a fun exercise and it was fun to watch. Thank you.

[@EdyAlbertoMSGT3]

That would be even harder to calculate though, as the cost of progress constantly scalates.

[@scdef.6009]

Just want to say, I am loving these OXplain videos. This video, Andy's video about rigged baseball games, and I think Luke has one as well? The OxboXtra crew always make great videos, But these little insight into topics you're curious or passionate about are the most enjoyable. The true icing on the cake.

[@NashvilleUK]

This is genuinely the most insightful video you guys/gals have ever done, good job!

[@Jogproof]

I have already watched it so I will rewatch it to appease Ellen's grievances

[@nathan.w4981]

I now want to see a larger audience test this to get more accurate results.

[@Reganbowbegan]

Came back to rewatch after 'airing grievances'. Enjoyed it each time i watched.

[@Kokuei7]

I love that you did this video! I knew that in game currency was predatory but having it laid out like that made it so much clearer. James Stephanie Sterling would be proud.

[@J4CKH0110W]

First calculating Sonics top speed and now this. More video game math-centric videos please. I enjoy them. The only thing missing in this one is the lab coat. But I guess this was more maths than science.

[@HunterDrone]

Accountant glasses for next time maybe?

[@Mrstevemoore]

Coming back to re-watch this video after Ellen’s proclamation in the latest show of the weekend!

[@CaliLulaLo]

Came back here to watch this video again after learning from the latest Show of the Weekend that nobody watched it. This was a great video! I had wondered why y'all didn't do more.

[@natesmith7599]

This is really a great video! It's great to show information like this to people to show some manner of transparency with microtransactions. Showing an actual concrete number to people really helps with showing how much you spend/can earn. Love seeing this information

[@wietze1220]

awesome video, at first it seems like a fun experiment to rank the games. then it turns into a lesson on the game industry, and how they are just milking the players. good stuff

[@umitatsuky]

I always forget how much of a height difference Ellen and Luke have. It's just like me and my taller little brothers.

[@JumpingTomato]

I love these oxplained video's! They are actually quite interrestinhlh and a lot of fun too watch! I would't mind swapping a few SOTW for more of these! Not too much though SOTW is the best thing on all of KZbin!

[@samgonzalez8662]

This was fascinating to watch. I am very much into this series. More please!

[@HadesTimer]

This is one of the greatest videos you guys have ever done. LOVE IT! If I could thumbs up this more than once I would.

[@Sammit00]

I’d really like to see someone do the maths like this for earning the new Seals of Endeavor in ESO, seeing as they’re so bloody labour-intensive to get, but you’d have to do it by working out the average amount of Crown Gems you get from cannibalising items in loot boxes to get a direct conversion from Crowns (the currency purchasable with real money) to Seals of Endeavor. And, I do *not* have money to burn on that science experiment 😬

[@mikoto7693]

I’d be interested in that, as well as Star Trek Online and Fallout 76.

[@drewworth1568]

I love this new Oxplain series! Keep em coming, this was great fun!

[@maccaebus]

Every single episode of Oxplain so far has been fascinating and I'm thoroughly enjoying how much work you guys put into it. Keep up the fantastic work!

[@ArcaneOwlchemist]

More research based content! Also, love Ellen's biting criticisms and shade cast at Fortnite.

[@danielblack4815]

Hope this video does well, always love these more experimental formats

[@hello_robot]

When Editing Ellen appeared at 11:15, for a wild second I thought it was to explain to us all that Luke does not actually get paid in raffle tickets

[@spinal_capped]

Such a good video! Great job Ellen and 〔ＷＨＩＴＥＢＯＡＲＤ〕! I loved Andy’s earlier vids in the series, and I hope this means we’ll see more OXplain vids in the future (after a MUCH needed rest and all the pints).

[@AngelBeatYunara]

The latest SOTWE got me back here!

[@jodinsan]

The only real takeaway for me from this video is that Luke is a giant.

[@CodaBlairLucarioEmperor]

Yeah. It's easy to forget that he's like about 7 ft I think

[@ryangale3757]

Man, I want to see this done with other games as well, this is surprisingly very interesting to dive into. Great work, Oxtra team!

[@gagekeener7540]

Love your guys channel I watch Everytime you guys put out videos it's a great way to start my morning before work :)

[@nuyabuisness7526]

I enjoy the fact that in order to keep Ellen in frame, they had to literally cut off 2/3 of Luke's head.

[@jaorlowski]

sassy Ellen is the best Ellen! Also, I like how the "efficiency" rises, if the price per pack goes up ;-)

[@ShinyHubCaps]

Absolutely well-done! Both insightful and well-explained while still being funny, and it must be hard to remain lighthearted when discussing the trend of how little your time is worth. I especially appreciate the side remarks about how convoluted the different currencies are. Some 2K games have as many as 4 currencies you can earn from play-through! I don’t game like I used to, and I think this is why. Games feel like work.

[@anonarat]

This was a really interesting and fun watch. Thanks for putting this together.

[@Jazzled]

Nicely done with all your maths, Ellen. Now I'm just tempted to do the same with the only game I pay anything for regularly.

[@gwts1171]

Candy Crush? :) C'mon, we all have done it.

[@clairewoods1858]

Hello anyone from the most recent Show of the Weekend!

[@callmewisdom]

I really like these kind of videos. Keep up the good work! :)

[@KOU-ZAI]

For all 33 minutes, this video was definitely worth my time. And with that said, you should do a Part 2.

[@Ceece20]

I’d love to see her try and earn $5 worth in each game and see how long it would take.

[@smoglesgames9333]

Oxplain is very quickly becoming my new favorite series, even with two videos out (I think?). Weird to have measured with math the gaps for some Pay2Win games.

[@connorburton1009]

It occurs to me... Tom Scott did a video with a title that accurately displayed the video's views... I wonder if it would be possible to do something similar with this title, changing the displayed currency based on where the viewer is.

[@offduty23]

In the US here, title is showing the amount in USD

[@connorburton1009]

@@offduty23 Me too, I think the title is just written in USD. I was more musing about the possibility of having an adaptive title.

[@stace218]

It’s a sign of how much I love you guys if I’m willing to sit through 33 MINUTES OF MATHS!

[@Tantalus2013]

Really liked the video!! Great idea and very original!

[@southpawfrenzy]

This is awesome. Now for hard-mode: do the maths for anything in Warframe!

[@innocentbrowncoat7333]

Unless you have something that's price is extremely stable, don't think you could. Rivens and most prime items would just throw all calculations into a blender of numbers.

[@Finn_Stitch]

I thought this would just be a funny video of yours guys, but it is useful and funny at the same time! Nice topic, I wouldn't mind seeing more of this kind of content

[@mondogecko3279]

I could’ve watched this for an hour or two! It’s so damn interesting!!

[@alexaaaar]

really liked the new format of this videos! keep it up

[@ventedbus4917]

Here from the new SotW

[@ApesWithEgos]

Missing: Laughing like the Count when counting.

[@CiscoCisco71]

The zoom in though when Ellen says" in cash money!" Lol

[@connortheandroidsentbycybe7740]

A genuinely needed & informative video, thank you

[@nightcatarts]

In conclusion, creating a huge fuss over this predatory, convoluted, obfuscated nonsense & basically guilting the publisher into behaving (multiplied by a bit) equals considerably better for the player.

[@mathsalot8099]

I feel like this video is on its head. The more worthwhile question for me is "is it worth it to spend real money or not?" The vast majority of people say "no, never!" But, I'd like to know how long it would take to "earn" £5 by playing. Is it better to play to unlock, or is it better to just buy the thing? The results are the same, but it feels different when put that way. So here's how long it takes to earn £5 worth of unlocks rather than just spending the money. SWBF2 - 1.29 hours Apex L - 3.13 hours Fall Guys - 8.19 hours GTA O - 9.80 hours ACV - 18.51 hours Fifa - 31.25 hours Fortnite - undetermined (dividibg by zero is a no-no) But, suffice to say I'd rather spend £5 for an unlockable I really want than have to grind 30+ hours of a game. But with SWBF2, I can get an unlockable by playing for little over an hour, which means I will never pay to unlock something in that game. My son has a weekly allowance he almost always spends on videogame unlocks (Fortnite, Roblox, etc.) But, I'd rather spend real money and give him a gift of a buff-cat skin than have him spend hundreds of hours playing a video game.

[@flyingkitty67]

I'm glad you're bringing this to more ppl attention. It's something more ppl need think about before making in-game purchases. I should know. I spent an obscene amount in a mobile game that I finally had to uninstall for my own financial health.

[@BeeHeartHeartHeart]

That was fantastic! Loving the Oxplain series

[@Nakker42]

Loving Oxplain, and of course the height gag

[@sergentboucherie9813]

I hope you paid Luke in Ellenbucks, real money is for people who can hold boards correctly

[@SapphireDragon357]

Ya know, when I saw the title, I thought it was a Josh Strife Hayes video, and was surprised it was Oxtra. But someone needed to do the math (yes, I'm American and we don't put an s here) and speak for the people, and you've done a damn good job of it!

[@ALittleBitEccentric]

this was really cool, I hope they do more of these experiement style videos