How Sega Rebuilt Sonic's Reputation

[@w1nter_mule]

I think sonic's reputation would've been saved if they made a game where you oil up Robotnik. just saying

[@lombaxmatt3894]

Zim you are the mind of a generation. Need this in Sonic X Shadow Generations, please Sega I beg 🙏🙏

[@TheGreenHoodieDude]

... Now hear me out

[@bowtiefries]

type shit

[@sikosonix901]

@@TheGreenHoodieDude ya know what, go ahead. I don't want the egg gaslighting Shadow, he's already got the Time Eater, Black Doom, the Biolizard, and Mephiles on his hands rn.

[@prasiliano4518]

How about oiled up rouge using the chaos emeralds as but plugs

[@SFproductions1]

It's crazy to me how I literally no see no issues with Shadow Generations. The game looks perfect so far

[@lombaxmatt3894]

@@SFproductions1 I agree I haven't had any bad impression of anything about it yet

[@JustCallMeRaito]

IT'S HIM!

[@Thaumiel98]

Some people think it's nostalgia bait.

[@RandommBoyo]

Never be too optimistic when it comes to Sega

[@sikosonix901]

What's even crazier is that most people agree with you, including me. Anyone who doesn't think that way is either nitpicking or just pessimistic about Sonic due to Forces PTSD.

[@lordx8844]

06 went from a dumpster fire to be hated and forgotten to a dumpster fire that is respected and recognized for what it is, P-06, mephiles promotion, and Sonic X shadow generations.

[@lombaxmatt3894]

Personally I respect 06 for its ideas but I can't enjoy the game itself. I'm glad P-06 can act as a way to experience what could've been, because it is fantastic

[@VolticWind]

I however don’t like the revisionism that people are doing with 06. P-06 is good, for the most part the story still sucks, but it doesn’t retroactively make 06 good.

[@lombaxmatt3894]

@VolticWind exactly that. P-06 is a great proof-of-concept of what a polished 06 could've been, but if I boot up 06 on my PS3 now, it'll still be the same mess I played in the past. I don't think its egregiously bad, but it's still not good by any standard. Concepts can only take a product so far; the main thing is the execution, but that was botched

[@Remour]

@@VolticWindp-06 makes the gameplay good.

[@LaggyMag]

I thought I was done with this franchise after forces but frontiers and the movies reeled me back in.

[@lombaxmatt3894]

@LaggyMag Same here. It really felt like Mania was a one-shot wonder, but recently the series has been firing on all cylinders. Still haven't gotten the chance to play Dream Team, but I've heard only good things about it

[@nahova3167]

Your not a real fan then real fans stayed loyal through thick and thin

[@TheGreenHoodieDude]

Sonic's reputation is like a rollercoaster, and that's why i like sonic, the inconsistancy. It's like eating at Popeyes' . without the jokes this video made me appreciate the sonic franchise even more !

[@lombaxmatt3894]

for real, without the bad stuff mixed in, we wouldn't appreciate the good stuff as much. Even then, most of the "bad" games still have something to respect in them too

[@TheGreenHoodieDude]

@@lombaxmatt3894 YEAH !!! Except forces, forces can die in fire

[@Artsy_Boi162]

As a sonic fan since 2012, being a Sonic fan during that time was hard since anytime I tried to say about it, my schoolmates would just comment negatively about it and saying I'm weird. I'm thankful that now my schoolmates has see Sonic as something u can idolized for.

[@vizuren]

This is the Redemption Era of Sonic

[@snakey888]

Just needs some good games.

[@prismaticstars7587]

Now all we need to do is see if Shadow Generations actually lives up to the hype. A make or break....

[@atavious2491]

My nostalgia for Sonic X was what brought me back into the franchise. Coincidentally since Teen Titans Go! was mentioned, I slowly started to get back into watching olde cartoons from my childhood all thanks to these shows getting reboots in the 2010s. It all started with TMNT 2012 and getting back into watching TMNT 2003 and first time watching the 1987 series. Teen Titans Go! got me back into watching the 2003 version. Same with the Powerpuff Girls 2016 getting me back into watching the original and PPGZ. When I heard that there was a new Sonic TV show on boomerang called Sonic Boom, I automatically remembered Sonic X and went back to watching those shows including the DiC cartoons. By far, Sonic X and Sonic OVA to me felt like the definitive Sonic experience. Sonic OVA is kinda like the first Pokémon movie in how we see both Dr. Eggman and Giovanni controlling Mewtwo and Metal Sonic. For awhile I kinda saw the OVA as being an unofficial TV movie to go alongside Sonic X since back then it was a trend to turn cartoon shows in cartoon movies. Pokémon and Digimon had a bunch of that but Sonic X didn't, so why not? Nowadays I love how the movies are kind of like a live action version of Sonic X with Sonic and his friends in the human world (which personally, I don't mind human characters and wished they came back in the games). If the Sonic movies came out back in the 2000s, it would've fit perfectly with the setting that the games and TV shows were taking place back then and probably would often get categorized with other live action cartoon movie adaptations or superhero franchises at the time, since a lot of multimedia material were almost always trying to look like the movies. Overall, I love Sonic like I do with any other thing that I loved from my childhood.

[@gamemaster2819]

I understand the ridicule people felt toward the games because I've lived with someone who agreed with the ridicule My sister and I got introduced to Sonic throught the Mario & Sonic series. We played the Beijing game at our cousins' house and out mom got us the Vancouver game. I'd always play Mario, she'd always play Sonic. We woulf later purchase Sonic & the Secret Rings and Sonic Heroes for our Wii and watch both the Sonic X anime and the cutscenes for 06 on KZbin. Then, as time went on, our opinions of video games diverged. I pretty much stayed the same and loved Nintendo consoles and Sonic, she went to PlayStation and more hyper realistic games. She also started to follow the Game Grumps and grew to agree with their opinions. I was excited for Lost World, Mania, and Forces. After Forces prooved to be the most bland game in the franchise, the increasing mainstream displeasure wouldn't be healed. For years, the only good Sonic news in the gaming market was Sonic being in Smash and Mania being released. When I told her about an IGN video that said Sonic was never good, she said they're not wrong. When we went to see the Sonic movies, she actually found them enjoyable. She wasnt a fan of the film chliches like fart jokes (she's a big film buff and has high standards) but came out finding it more fun than she thought she would. She's still not a fan of the series while it's grown to be one of my favorites, and she's still a fan of the Grumpy Grumps, but she's more respectful of my enjoyment of the series

[@clasherinotheone5249]

Sonic unleashed once laughed at is now seen as the holy grail of sonic games The sonic movies captured so many old and new fans And frontiers showed that sonic games have something special and I think shadow gens will continue and sell even more

[@lombaxmatt3894]

@clasherinotheone5249 I'm so glad people appreciate Unleashed more nowadays. Genuinely a fantastic game, and the Werehog is really fun if you actually use the combos you learn I also think Shadow Gens will sell well too - it's an incredible package at a decent price

[@clasherinotheone5249]

@@lombaxmatt3894 unleashed is now so popular that even Izuka knows that people want a remaster of it Also thanks for defending knuckles episode 4 that episode was actually peak I like the show in general it was a fun side adventure and knuckels has screen time a lot for a CGI character and I love Wade he and agent stone are my favorite human characters so far

[@lombaxmatt3894]

@clasherinotheone5249 Yeah honestly Wade became a favourite of mine after the show too I thought not only was Episode 4 fun, but it was a really clever way to use the budget effectively. No way could they afford a full CGI episode showing what happened, so making it a rock-opera re-enactment and using that to drive the comedy was just genius

[@clasherinotheone5249]

@@lombaxmatt3894 also they used parts of the source material cleverly and acknowledged iblis ALSO HOW DID PEOPLE EXPECT THEM TO DO IT CGI IBLIS IS SIMILAR TO THE SIZE OF THE DEATH EGG ROBOT IN SONIC MOVIE 2 Also they showed they can pull of Amazing fights this show had such cool fight scenes and the dynamic between Wade and knuckels is strong Of course the show has flaws but people loose their mind over a simple side story and don’t even understand said story despite it having a simple narrative

[@lucas.n.carvalho.artist]

​@@clasherinotheone5249 You know the best part? Since the Knuckles show was successful, a second season is likely! Meaning they could the same thing movie 1 did for movie 2: Lay a foundation with a initial, simpler and grounded, story that's more approachable to general audiences with some small byt still faithful elements from the franchise, and then continue with a even more faithful and lore-heavy continuation! I firmly believe a second season of Knuckles would be perfect to add Rouge or the Chaotix, or have more lore elements like the Gizoid, Mecha Knuckles, even other planets and dimensions.

[@LampP0st]

While I learned of sonic back when i was a little kid with shadow '05 it was actually Sonic Prime that got me into Sonic fr. Then the movies and I went back and went through all the games (I especially like SA2, Murder of Sonic, P-06, Unleashed, and Black Knight. So soso so hyped for Shadow Generations. Im getting ready to play Frontiers.

[@Creeper0550]

The best part is that SEGA realized that Brazil exists, since 2022 all Sonic games have been released in Portuguese, starting with Sonic Origins, and now SEGA has also partnered with Burger King which is exclusive in Brazil, in addition to the first Sonic Symphony being in Brazil

[@AltKaxREAL]

what can we say, us Brazilians think Sonic is a cool small lad

[@GojiBR2004]

Hopefully in the future we'll finally get the games being dubbed as well

[@AltKaxREAL]

@@GojiBR2004 i pray that it does, SEGA has not idea what they're missing out on!

[@GojiBR2004]

@@AltKaxREAL Ikr, it would be so cool to finally see Manolo Rey voicing Sonic in the actual games

[@sagecentral1809]

This was a great video man, you highlighted pretty much everything in good detail. I’ve subscribed and I hope to see this channel grow.

[@lombaxmatt3894]

@@sagecentral1809 Thank you so much 🫶

[@blueblitz283]

Sonic's reputation was indeed in the trenches from the late 2000's, all the way through the 2010's. My own brother bullied me non-stop for liking Sonic. So throughout my highschool years, I felt as though I had to hide the fact that I was a Sonic fan the same way a drug dealer hides their stache of cocaine. Now, I feel happy that I can own the fact that I'm a Sonic fan and not have to hide it Although admittedly there are some of us, even if only a small percentage of the fan base, who can still feel the scars of the past whenever critics put out a review on a Sonic game, myself included

[@GottaGoFast91]

Sonic Mania is my favorite game of all time. Great to see it was a big factor to the redemtion!

[@eliezersarcos7813]

I never lost hope in sonic i always believed sonic could come back and i am so happy thats what happened

[@anonymoustroll2432]

Such a chill and positive video

[@devonerichardson2065]

Sonic is back in action folks

[@lombaxmatt3894]

@@devonerichardson2065 living the best timeline

[@noah_ignis]

I haven't been this excited for Sonic Content since Mania because it felt like Sonic was getting his feet back up in the early 2010s with Colors and Generations but the over exaggerated criticism from critics really almost killed the franchise and left the series in a uncertain state especially the gap between Lost World and Forces with the Boom era actually making it worse because it made the critcs and even popular KZbinrs correct that Sonic was never a great franchise to begin with. But here we are in 2024 and it makes me happy to see the lead to Sonic X Shadow Generations having positive feedback never i would see fans get excited for Kingdom Valley returning and that makes me happy great follow up video to what Chaomix made

[@lombaxmatt3894]

@noah_ignis Thank you! And yeah I agree, it's awesome seeing people excited for Kingdom Valley. If this were 2015, it would've been endlessly ridiculed. Personally, I quite like the Boom TV Show, and Fire and Ice. Now that Boom isn't a thing and we know it's not replaced the main series, I can look back on it a bit more fondly

[@gameboy3800]

the sonic ip was never bad. just...mishandled for awhile. true fans kept coming back in hopes that whoever was making the next sonic media really understood the character. while frontiers took a more lore heavy approach and respected the characters it had spent 30 years building, the comics and tv shows brought a younger audience into the series' attention and the movies brought an even wider audience in. each one being a great stepping point into the character and world of sonic. just getting to know sonic? well now we can reliably say watch the movies instead of a hodgepodge of different games a normal person would never put real time into investigating. want to know the world of sonic a bit better? introduce them to the comics that do a great job building and exploring our heroes in a variety of scenarios. want a deeper dive into our main characters or want to see what makes them special? play mania and frontiers. its never been easier to be a fan or to explain to everyone what made you a fan in the first place. i love it!

[@lombaxmatt3894]

@gameboy3800 this is a great point yeah. It is so easy to say to someone "watch the movies as a starting point" because, whilst not super game accurate, it is a great entry into the franchise. And there are now plenty of great games to recommend for beginners - Colours Ult, SonicxShadow Generations, Mania, Origins, add in steam with SADX and SA2B too

[@demontropolis7742]

I’m one of those people who’d say: 1 - Sonic Heroes is on par with the two Adventure games, maybe even moreso. Heroes is still a great game, and it’s Shadow 2005 where the decline truly started to take effect. 2 - Despite Sonic Mania’s reputation, I actually don’t like the game, mostly because I got tired of all the references shoved down my throat, it felt dull and forced. 3 - I like Sonic Superstars over Mania. That game’s structure and unique elements had me more interested and having more fun with the overall experience.

[@lombaxmatt3894]

Personally I'm not a massive Heroes fan - I find it very repetitive and buggy. I have a lot of memories with it and I still enjoy it, but it isn't one I could point to a newcomer right away. Kinda wish Sonic Team only shipped it on Gamecube so they weren't developing for 3 consoles and could've had their first original game off Sega hardware to be more focused Shadow, yeah. There isn't much about the game that will make me ever want to replay it. Superstars > Mania is very interesting. I like Mania a lot for how it takes those original zones, and then really spices them up in Act 2. Chemical Plant Act 2 is my favourite 2D level in the series for how well all the gimmicks keep the flow going. I think Superstars is so close to being on par with it but having some zones with 3 acts and some with 1 act made it feel unbalanced to me. A lot of the bosses are way too long as well, and locking the Super Sonic final fight behind a mandatory second playthrough with an entirely different character sure was... a choice. But the actual level designs and themes, the artstyle and the gameplay are fantastic, and is probably one of the most fun side-scrolling Sonic games. If the problems I had were remedied, it'd be at the top spot for sure

[@demontropolis7742]

​@@lombaxmatt3894 Most criticisms of Heroes never stuck out to me as fully warranted, or at least not enough to bring it down. The Adventure games have their fair share of bugginess and weird design choices, too,. Without going into too much detail, that's my general thinking process regarding Heroes in comparison with Adventure 1 and 2, all three are quite similar in quality. As for my stance of Superstars, the varying act numbers never really bothered me, each zone still got their time in the sun to show off what they had. It was a different take and I appreciate that. Locking the true final boss behind a second, harder playthrough isn't really an issue, either, modern Kirby games do that ALL the time (Kirby bosses are also pretty long on average without an ability). Hot take incoming: I have more fun with Superstars bosses than Mania's on average. In my experience, the latter felt more frustrating and backwards in design (along with the crammed references, the excessive amount really bothers me) but also too short to make me want to care about improving my skills. Most of the Superstars bosses, despite being longer than other 2D Sonic games, feel more complete and consistently paced within that game, especially with multiplayer. Plus, you have Emerald Powers to shorten the fights if you just want to get them over with.

[@lombaxmatt3894]

@demontropolis7742 My main problem with Heroes compared to the Adventure games is that the levels copy-and-paste a few segments, I remember Egg Fleet I think, copying the same two-path part a lot. I never minded the slippery controls though, like of course the Speed characters will be harder to control. That still being a thing in Shadow 05 when you can't switch team member is kinda dumb though I respect Heroes a lot for having such unique stage themes and awesome music, I really like the visuals too. But I grew up on the PS2 version, and rail switching never really worked correctly on that, and I remember Omega always flying off the stage haha. Maybe I'll replay it one day though, I haven't played it again since around 2020 As for Kirby, I've never really played them. I played most of Triple Deluxe and enjoyed it, but I got distracted by Mario Odyssey and then never went back to finish it 😅 As for the Superstars bosses, I was playing Trip's Story recently and even with the abilities, the one in Lagoon City took about 3 minutes still. I agree that Mania's are sometimes too short and lacking, but I thought some of the Superstars bosses were the inverse of that - it feels like you're either waiting around for an open window to attack, or there's just too many hit points. I suppose it comes down to personal preference though

[@demontropolis7742]

@@lombaxmatt3894 if you ever revisit Sonic Heroes, the GameCube is the most stable version, but I’m not sure if you know that already. I grew up on both the GameCube and PS2 versions, too.

[@DADA-yt1pt]

As much as I love Mania, I can see where you're coming from. In fact, sometimes the level design can make the game feel autopiloty. As in, you're constantly blazing through loops, corkscrews, and other set pieces. There are platforming segments and those are great, but the levels can feel like they go in one ear and out the other sometimes. Despite it suffering from a number of issues, I actually like Sonic Superstars' approach of putting a greater emphasis on platforming and downplaying speed. Which to some probably sounds insane since we're talking about Sonic the Hedgehog, but that's just how I feel. I like exploring the levels and using the Emerald Powers to do so as well.

[@Alicia_Tomoko_5x]

Saying that Sonic's reputation has been rebuilt is an overexaggeration. We continue to get shoddy Sonic products and mediocre ports. Every once in a while, we get a Sonic game that is... "okay" like Frontiers. But yet Frontiers is half-assed compared to other open world games. Unless you only play Sonic.

[@XTHHedgehog]

If this video has taught me one thing, it's that you have excellent taste in channels you watch.

[@Ibalistic_hedge]

If we're being brutally honest, forces really wasn't that bad. Ppl act as if it's the worst sonic game. I'd rather forces than sonic boom, chronicles, generations 3ds, lost world 3ds and sonic 4. It did have a handful of good levels, the ost was mostly good and the customisable avatar was cool. It's not a good game, but it's not awful.

[@NKL3085]

Sonic forces was the last straw after years if not decades of baffling design decisions. They finally had something decent with generations hd and they threw it all in the garage for a wii u deal. When that didn't work, they spent the next 10 years scrambling just to reach the standard they had in 2008

[@lombaxmatt3894]

@Ibalistic_hedge Personally I find Forces really boring and clunky, and every time i replay it, I think "surely it wasn't that bad" but it just.. is. I do really like the character creator though, and I think the Avatar has a nice arc

[@snakey888]

@@NKL3085 The standard of 2008 isn't really anything to aspire for. But according to metacritic, they sure did succeed. Forces has about the same reception as Unleashed.

[@_adrill]

I watched Sonic X in 2020 and my wallet has never been the same

[@lombaxmatt3894]

@_adrill i finished rewatching Sonic X last night haha, how did you find it?

[@SergioGamingCornerVA]

Sonic Mania bought to me the Sonic series.😊

[@lombaxmatt3894]

A great choice to start with! Have you gone back to any of the older games since?

[@SergioGamingCornerVA]

As a matter of fact, yes, unleashed is my favorite, and sa2 is my second favorite.

[@lombaxmatt3894]

@@SergioGamingCornerVA Nice! I love Unleashed as well, probably my favourite game too

[@prasiliano4518]

Welcome to the franchise buddy ,just avoid chris Chan lore

[@yourboyjay22]

i like sonic

[@lombaxmatt3894]

me too!

[@natelederp]

i LOVE sonic

[@Echidnawarrior]

Ima be honest i feel lost world was just a way to display a new gameplay style

[@dominosnostradamus2415]

We need another sonic mania

[@lombaxmatt3894]

@dominosnostradamus2415 A Sonic Mania with fully original levels would be awesome. Have you tried out Penny's Big Breakaway? It's a original game by the Mania devs

[@NKL3085]

Imagine thinking they'd ever work for sega again. You'll get Mania 2 for free during a fan game expo

[@Alicia_Tomoko_5x]

For Sonic's reputation to be fully built, Sonic game discussion needs to have mainstream and casual gamers. So far, only hardcore Sonic fans take part in these discussions which puts everything Sonic game related on the niche side. The cartoons/movies are carrying the franchise. With that being said, if I deep KZbin Sonic's "bad or dark' error, hardcore Sonic fans were still defending those games anyway. L

[@thaddayyus]

god I am so lucky I got this in my reccomended. You are a great conyent creator and this video is even better. Stay cool brah

[@Green_Pix-L]

Ever since the 30th anniversary, us Sonic fans have been eating good.

[@Themasktrooper]

They slowly improving the series

[@coolgamersonicyes7196]

Sega did that 50 times already it's not a surprise that they did it again

[@BlackFlash09]

I don't like Episode 4 of the Knuckles Paramount+ series. I *LOVE* it!

[@REAL_NOLAR]

The symphony brought me in lol

[@Alicia_Tomoko_5x]

Videos like this would have more meaning if it wasn't made by a hardcore Sonic fan. "Reputation" is Sonic's image around the world compared to other franchises. A world where Sonic Frontiers is compared to better open world games. And noticeably half-assed. But a hardcore Sonic fanboy is always going to paint Sonic's reputation in a positive light. Ask the general gaming community about Sonic's current reputation for a broader response

[@tjz3158]

Correction how Paramount rebuilt Sonic’s reputation and how Sega is maintaining it

[@Hedgie3]

Who's that "yooooouuuu" person who was shown early in this video? I can't recognize him. I've been a Sonic fan ever since I was in my toddler months and I think that what I could learn about Sonic through the 90s cartoons and that blue is my favorite color were the main things that caused me to become a fan of that character so quickly. I never lost interest in that franchise, and when that horrible first trailer got released my dad showed it to me on his cellphone, then on the next day he revealed info from that mobile device that I wasn't the only person who was heavily bothered by that ugly wrong character design for Movie Sonic, and that so many other people were pushing a major warning for Paramount to fix it up and make Sonic look more like he usually does or else that movie would have no doubt become a laughingstock boycotted flop at the box office.

[@lombaxmatt3894]

That's a really nice story, thank you for sharing! And yeah if they didn't change the design it would've been a film people watched ironically, and never again. So glad they got Hesse to redesign him. The person was Arin Hanson from Game Grumps - when he played Sonic games, he criticised everything he could and went out of his way to break the game then say it's buggy. With such a large audience, it reaffirmed the idea that Sonic games are bad and glitchy, because that's mainky what he showed. Also Sega made him a brand amassador for Sonic in like 2017-ish?? That will never make sense to me

[@NKL3085]

TLDW Sonic Team fucked off and Mania was too small for SEGA to sabotage

[@evdestroy5304]

Give it 5 years

[@Wiziliz]

Episode 4 was one of the only enjoyable Knuckles episode, half of the eps were intolerably bad, haha

[@JWCK-PRODUCTIONS]

I loved this vid, u earned ur new subscriber

[@JustCallMeRaito]

SEGA really pulled itself out of the abyss. Neat!

[@NKL3085]

Tyson Hesse had to do it twice

[@JustCallMeRaito]

Ikr brings a whole new meaning to "Zero to hero"

[@Yadeeyadeeyadah]

Its reputation is still bad, the movies are fine though

[@bluequills80]

Counter point at 3:23 no this wasn't a lie if you look at the credits and the history of the forces development team previous work you'll see that they worked on Colors and Generations. It wasn't false marketing.

[@NKL3085]

the people who made generations bailed and sonic team shat out lost world next

[@ErMun_Channel]

>How Sega Rebuilt Sonic's Reputation >Sonic Mania uhhh... no

[@NKL3085]

Nothing sonic team put out could compare

[@ErMun_Channel]

@@NKL3085 Sonic 3 & Knuckles

[@NKL3085]

@@ErMun_Channel 23 years and several staff changes earlier

[@BubbagumpTester]

Soic mania

[@wanderson4360]

did they though? 😅

[@lombaxmatt3894]

@wanderson4360 The general opinion of the series is much higher now and the movies plus Frontiers have been a massive success, I'd say so. One thing I forgot to mention was sales charts in January for top licensed merchandise, and Sonic was 3rd on the list. I havent seen charts since then however, so I'm not sure about February-May

[@snakey888]

Is it really rebuilt though? Superstars was a disappointment, Frontiers is nothing to write home about and Dream Team is apple exclusive. The films and series may be great, but Sonic's primary format are the games, and they're still struggling there.

[@LavaIsSatire]

off topic but i think lost world is better than frontiers

[@Sonic171K]

I have no faith in the franchise when it comes to the games. Lol

[@frickerrific2813]

Nah! Not really. People in the REAL WORLD still think Sonic is sorta weird and dumb.

[@Mivxyt]

Well yeah but what does that consist of? Old people, gangstas, and those kind of gamers who just play Fortnite, Fifa or Cod.

[@frickerrific2813]

@@Mivxyt no bro. People our age, your peers, and gamers who like all types of games. Also don’t drag those other games, god knows us Sonic fans have no room to talk in terms of game quality or brand integrity. Also gangstas love Sonic more than the average person fuck you on about?