How Shipping Ruined Star Vs the Forces of Evil

[@SarcasticChorus]

SHOUT OUT TO MORINGMARK for keeping the fandom alive and retroactively brainwashing me into thinking Tom X Janna was a thing! Also, I accidentally used Tomco more than once apparently when I meant Tomstar. Had to repress the urge to rant about it all day so I guess it just slipped in there.

[@misstressfoxtail05]

I don't know about everyone else but I shipped Tom x Janna at the time. I thought they would make an interesting couple.

[@tkiesailastname4656]

HAH nice. I love MorningMark's work

[@maem7462]

@@misstressfoxtail05 Honestly same they were another one of my ships

[@marcosantoro7465]

That ship from Moringmark is almost better than anything else the show gave us. Exept kellco. Justice for kellco!

[@alandtic4616]

Morning Mark is great funny, skilled and his oc comics are super wholesome

[@Sugarpeach44]

I hated that Marco was all “I loved you since I saw you” thing because no, no he didn’t. By the almost end of the day of knowing Star he became a crazy guy yelling at people outside a convenience store.

[@SilvertheHogrider]

As a starco fan I tried every form of algebra to find a way for that statement to be true but I just can’t.

[@Hi01666]

RIGHTT, I was like didn’t he kick himself out because of her?? 😕

[@nicoleflores2054]

he even says stuff about "love at first sight" like, hOW??? MARCO LITERALLY FELT NOTHING FOR A GIRL THAT HE JUST MET- HE HAD A CRUSH ON JACKIE-

[@Dave102693]

Lmfao my brain hurts from that line alone.

[@deathgameholic]

It legit makes no sense 😭

[@geardog24]

At least Jackie wasn't the cliché bratty girl that every boy loves for no reason. She actually had a nice personality you could get along with, and hoped she would be part of the main cast.

[@nicolelouise7295]

I actually really liked Jarco, more than Starco probs bc I rarely go for obvious pairings. So sad it had to end bc of a stupid cape and that stupid blood moon.

[@uhhhhiii1807]

EXACTLY Jackie did nothing wrong yet people paint her out to be this malicious person just because she was with Marco. In actuality she had never went out her way to hurt anyone, just because star was jealous does not make it her fault

[@pascuala.]

I used to be that one person who hated her because of: "sHe gEts iN thE wAy of mY sHip!" But now i _a d o r e_ this funky chill woman 🛐

[@Gemnist98]

Honestly, she was little else beyond that though. By the time Season 3 got around, the show had already evolved to a point where Jackie just didn’t fit in any longer. Janna’s macabre hobbies contribute SOMEWHAT to the larger world and it allowed her to fit into Season 4. But Jackie? I just don’t see her having much purpose outside of the Earth landscape. All she does is be cool and skateboard, and her only goal/purpose in the series is to be with Marco. She is literally a manic pixie dream girl, and I genuinely think I’m the only person on the Internet who has this view. Again, I like Jackie, but the show was moving on to bigger and better things (specifically Season 3, not Season 4)and she just didn’t fit in any longer.

[@sungjinotes]

@@Gemnist98 your view makes sense to me tho i've never seen her on that perspective before 🤔

[@PennTankerGuy]

How it started: Two friends go on magical adventures. How it ends: Boyfriend and girlfriend kill every single magical creature in existence.

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

just to be together Edit: Let's not forget that Star & Marco were boyfriend and girlfriend for only like a day or so

[@hunterkoons2008]

Kind of ironic that one of the lessons she learned was about mumans having displaced and oppressed the monsters and she ends the show by literally committing genocide.

[@EmeraldKeys]

Thinking about how they turned the spells in Star's wand into likeable characters only to just kill them off in the end without realizing that

[@itsmax9535]

and its not like its written well or something no they are being treated like heroes that did the right thing

[@Office_chair]

I didn't really like the ending of them having to get rid of magic and everything I felt like that was muwnis whole thing. AND ALSO MARCO AND STAR DATING ONLY HAPPENED FOR THE LAST TWO OR THREE EPISODES !?

[@WeirdWonderful]

What I hate most about the Marco-Kelly situation is, they spent more than a season gradually showing them hanging out more and becoming closer friends, having shared hobbies etc. And then they take this organically developed relationship and break it off after ONE episode, so they can instead do effectively a last second hookup with Star and Marco, abandoning a relationship we got to see actually developing for one we purposefully will never get to see, because it happened right before the show ended. This is so utterly backwards to me.

[@DipperPines1986]

Ikr

[@jlwiseman98]

Even worse is Kelly and marco never acknowledged the other ever again after the fact. Like the moment they broke up they didn't just throw out their romantic relationship, but their platonic too. Kelly is injured in the finale and marco doesn't get upset or go to see her or anything, she's basically a background character. And when the finale separated all dimensions forever, including Kelly's from star and marco, neither character is really that upset about it, ESPECIALLY marco who never reacts because "he has star, so who cares? " Even tomstar and jarco ATTEMPTED to make both pairs at least friends after the splits, the show basically forgets Kelly and marco were close at all.

[@ADog5604]

I feel like Kelly and Marco should've stayed together

[@SukiNoKoe]

Kelly and Marco was the MOST random-ass, rebound thing ever; glad they barely got attention lol

[@WeirdWonderful]

@@SukiNoKoe they at least bothered setting it up, vs Star and Marco taking turns randomly being secretly in love with one another

[@posermatt1293]

the thing is: the blood moon didn’t even have to be romantic. just soul bonded. best friends for life. the end

[@flapflapflapflap]

Heck they could have been "If you go down i go down too"

[@Ich-Existiere-Nicht]

A soulmate isn't always your romantic partner it just means that they are the other part of your soul and you get along with them well, feel complete etc... They can be siblings or best friends so that actually would have made sense. Just making Star and Marco soulmates with no romance going on.

[@saram404]

literally, it's so rare to see platonic soulmates in media, why does no one write them when their dynamics are so needed..

[@somnodaur8064]

My thing is that the blood moon never felt right. Their friendship wouldn’t be real to me

[@lirey9768]

And it would've been a great way to subvert expectations, too But NOOOOOO, because no two people of the opposite gender could POSSIBLY enjoy each other's company platonically, I guess

[@panayotyanev4600]

"He was a dork who can never shoot his shot, she always did but never bothered to aim" describes this show perfectly

[@nuibaba280]

That was great

[@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth]

When I first saw it, I had desperately hoped the Bloodmoon Ball was an intentional metaphor for male and female deuteragonists being FORCED into loving one another by the end of the show. They could have used the whole soul-bond "you are destined to be together whether you like it or not" thing as a sentient curse, which they'd have to fight against to remain friends. Imagine the pair confronting an entity born from the Bloodmoon moment, demanding they HAD to be a couple. An excellent criticism of the trope, the fans who force their ships on others, and the societal expectation that men and women can never just be friends.

[@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth]

"YOU WILL BE TOGETHER FOREVER. YOUR FRIENDS, YOUR REALITY, YOUR PERSONALITY, I DO NOT CARE WHAT I MUST BREAK TO MAKE IT SO."

[@MutatedPercent]

@@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth That actually would have been a good message to teach to young kids. Most kids don't realize that there is no need to get all angry over some dumb FICTIONAL ship so this would have been a good way to show that all ships can be good ones! Even if they aren't cannon. But no instead we got the most generic wattpad fan fiction in existence.

[@Thesmus]

this too, like that would have been an amazing plot.

[@segundovargas]

My thoughts exactly. This could've been the ultimate middle finger to the "if the leads are male and female who are friends, they MUST fall for each other" trope.

[@lumpyclouds9446]

When your educated:

[@extremelysleepyperson]

the shipping was so insane, especially the offscreen breakups, that when i first watched the series on a streaming service i literally thought i skipped a few episodes

[@afellowpotato]

I'm just replying so you can see how much likes you got

[@trypotherapy7478]

I remember feeling SO BAD for Tom. He promised to change and actually went through the effort to change, gave Marco a chance, who ended up as his best _- probably only male -_ friend. He did everything for Star, was there for support, was emotionally avaivable even though he didn't sometimes understand what was going on, and he was there to help in battle, if anyone asked him to be there- he'd be there. He didn't even get angry when he found out that Star cheated on him, even though he had every right to be! He just got more sad and confused. Instead it was Star who got angry at Tom for questioning it. _

[@natsuki7325]

Same I was so angry at star and Marco for hurting Tom like that.

[@zoeyburton2597]

Marco had other male best friends before Tom lol they just got pushed and scraped after season 1 mostly

[@makardeku]

@@zoeyburton2597 i think they said Toms first male friend

[@zoeyburton2597]

@@makardeku ohh yeah that makes sense

[@ma.2089]

It’s funny cuz I actually liked Marco’s friends that were forced into the show to make Marco not look like a friendless loser. In the end he became an asshole who abandons his old friends for his new girl friend with magic powers and then betrays his new best friend Tom.

[@P3TALtothemetal]

The thing is.. The show never should’ve been about the ships. It should’ve been about Star growing up. Having responsibilities and character development. Not all about who would get together first. There should be ships as well bc they’re teenagers but it shouldn’t have taken over the show.

[@KarutoZoaldyeck]

Talking about development with the boyfriends pfp 💀💀

[@P3TALtothemetal]

@@KarutoZoaldyeck check again 😌

[@alli8373]

A part of growing up is having crushes and stuff sooo

[@Ich-Existiere-Nicht]

@@alli8373 Yeah but the show was barely about anything else. Having crushes is a part of growing up but if you don't find your own personality and only focus on love that's extremely unhealthy.

[@alli8373]

@@Ich-Existiere-Nicht yes but star never did that, she was either fighting monsters or haning out with marco

[@NightxKilla]

Season 1: Liked everyone, hated Tom Last season: Liked Tom, hated everyone. Talk about a literal 180

[@combatmedic3318]

LMAOO

[@zoyazuhl8708]

@Hanakosimp:) what about it

[@yearoldChineselove]

​@@zoyazuhl8708 HOOOOOOG RIDER

[@GhostFox.-.]

@Hanakosimp:) I also saw stars hair clips had the bi flag in the episode where she learns to ride a bike

[@sauceboss9797]

@Hanakosimp:) or you know, it's just a rainbow. Literally one of the main things that the character likes, especially seeing as all her crushes were boys and she went through mewberty

[@bunny-ey2ie]

star and marco had such a sibling dynamic that it made me uncomfortable when the writers started forcing them to be romantically interested in each other. there was no build up for either of them.

[@Shigeokageyama.psycho100]

I shipped them since day one since they were so touchy and didn't fight...

[@BaranKamali-dx4fj]

To be fair friendship is one of the most (if not the most) important things in bounding with a person but this one seemed kinda out of nowhere.they were really like Anne and her frog friend (I don’t remember his name)

[@kawaiicat2424]

I actually thought they were great together since the first season

[@alejandrasanchez3022]

@@Shigeokageyama.psycho100 friends can be like that too yknow?

[@Shigeokageyama.psycho100]

@@alejandrasanchez3022 no

[@CatMario100]

I know this wasn't the writers' intentions, but a big thing about this ship that rubs me the wrong way is basically the show saying "Cheating is okay if it's with your best friend."

[@exloster9624]

The way the cheating was handled really rubbed me the wrong way tbh. I didn't like starco from the beginning, as I could tell, like most others, that they would end up together in the end anyway. But the way the two just became worse and worse characters and not facing any real consequences for it? Just horrendous.

[@dolliquette]

Correction: "Cheating is okay, if it's with your [completely by mistake] soulmate."

[@TheDeathmail]

No, it wasn't viewed as okay... it was just acknowledged that they both made a mistake, regretted it and they were in a weird situation. It also didn't help that it could be considered Tom's fault because he's the one that put them 2 of them under a magic spell that made them have a hard time resisting each other...

[@nicoleflores2054]

@@TheDeathmail i mean, it's not like Star and Tom expected Marco to appear in the ball?? (hell, Star didn't knew that he was the mystery guy there) though, can't defend that he did tried on doing that to Star as a way to get her back.

[@Zharrgrim]

But it is ok

[@exloster9624]

You know the romance is bad in a show, when it makes you dislike the main characters, because of how awful they end up becoming towards their significant others.

[@RowdyBoy82]

But that's how our non- magical reality works all the time.

[@Rainjojo]

Me @ Marinette

[@The_Firevenus]

Me with LOK season 2, as much as I'm being supportive and happy for korrasami ,season two and its fucking horrible love triangle threw me off and I was interested more with anyone than the main cast jfc

[@eli-jah_ayon]

Miraculous ladybug in a nutshell

[@nicoleflores2054]

@@The_Firevenus i think starting with love drama in the first episodes of season one as well was also a problem.

[@sarabeatriz5569]

Tom was one of the only characters I cared about and seeing him being used only to make starco happen broke my heart and I'll never get over it

[@Giovapoof]

Ok

[@jadamccalister5128]

SAME

[@nicoleflores2054]

same

[@lemonadedrink5607]

Same

[@nicolerousseau3694]

I feel exactly the same

[@NocturnalNightingale]

Marco and Kelly's relationship was the most fun for me honestly. Their arc together was learning to move on and healing from feelings that were not healthy to keep holding on to. Star and Tom might've been more focussed on two people learning how to live with each other without ending their entire relationship/friendship. Both of these would've been quite fun to explore and interesting to follow. Edit: Thinking back, Star and Tom might learn to accept that they cannot work in a romantic relationship, they work great outside of one. Leading to their relationship evolving from one of romance to one more platonic and healthy to maintain.

[@ADog5604]

Kelly and Marco made sense and they actually connected, which is the reason they should've stayed together

[@mookie1151]

I remember loving how Marco and Star WERE ONLY FRIENDS with their own crushes on others.I thought it was unique so they flushed it down the toilet of course.

[@Office_chair]

Yeah I liked it better to because it was more different and it wasn't a stereotype plot of "boy MC girl MC they're going to date"

[@whizz_0711]

This is the reason why I’m very wary of watching shows with a male and female lead

[@juliamcw338]

@@whizz_0711 The only thing that can save it is if the male and female leads are siblings or related in some other way. You know damn well that if Mabel and Dipper weren't brother and sister that it would be a very different story.

[@nicoleflores2054]

@@juliamcw338 dang, unfortunately that still don't stop some people for shipping them.

[@nicoleflores2054]

@@whizz_0711 there are shows who haves a main friendship between a female and a male protagonist, one example is Wander over Yonder.

[@thatcartoonfan2502]

As someone who shipped Starco HARD, the way it happened was terrible. Instead of making Starco canon early on or putting all the shipping stuff in the background, they put all the shipping shit at the front and needlessly dragged out Starco for 4 seasons. I actually LOVE best friends to lovers, but absolutely HATE will they, won't they, so Starco being endlessly dragged out really bugged me. If Starco happened at the end of the 1st or 2nd season, then we most likely wouldn't have had all of the problems that happened in seasons 3 and 4.

[@stevi6044]

I thought everything was good there up to S3, but throwing jackie to the curb just to have ANOTHER love triangle turned me into a schizo of a shipper

[@notmitsukiyolol]

I left the show when it was that episode where Star unleashed her Butterfly powers, what happened to make it into a dumpster fire?

[@ladynoire8339]

I know how you feel

[@stevi6044]

@@notmitsukiyolol The biggest problem was the excessive romance drama, as the video points out. That alone degraded the characters and ate up much of the runtime after Battle for Mewni. Past that, Mewni as a setting was unbearably boring, the main plot got worse over time (mina loveberry was the S4 antagonist for some reason???), then the finale's "subversion" of magic being evil and Star deciding to destroy it was given so little care half the fandom thinks she did multi-dimensional scale genocide. Besides the soundtrack, I've come to detest pretty much everything about the show by the end.

[@jjtjp2469]

It's really sad and hilarious how desperately the writers behind the show wanted Starco so bad, but the show honestly proves that both Star and Marco shared better romantic chemistry with everybody other then each other.

[@KavinCatastrophe]

When i saw all that Shipping thing Going on last Season i was like "Remember when this show had a Plot. Different Dimensions, Great Villain(Toffee), and learning about the Butterfly Family." I missed Those Days. But i guess watching Marco Cycle through Different Girls was Just to Important.

[@Mia-sl6vb]

Ugh, Toffee...they butchered my boi so badly 😭😭😭 (And what the hell was that "SUPRISE" as his last appearance.)

[@Ame865]

I don’t remember too much from the show sense I watched it years ago but I think it was so out of the blue to make them them date each other when they don’t even seem like they had feelings with each other for most of the series. I wish Jackie and Marco stayed together they had good chemistry

[@KavinCatastrophe]

@@Mia-sl6vb I know right. Star: Toffee was Right we need to Destroy All the Magic. Im Pretty sure he wanted to Specfically Destroy the Butterfly Family Magic because you guys was To OP. NOT DESTROY ALL MAGIC IN THE MULTIVERSE! That was such a Lame way to Squeeze Toffee in One Last Time.

[@Dave102693]

@@Ame865 agreed. They had to break them up just so Starco could happen. Lol

[@steampunkemo9211]

Yeah, the ship between Marco and star ruined the show for me. I liked it when they were friends because it was such a break from every girl and boy in shows getting together.

[@wordsmith6154]

As a Star fan and a Miraculous fan, Star's whole shipping fiasco was FAR more frustrating than Miraculous and it took the writers 5 SEASONS to get Marinette and Adrien together plus there were those episodes where they dated people that weren't their crush. The positive thing I feel came out of Star was the bromance between Marco and Tom. They're just filled to the brim with true best-friends energy, like bro-best-friends energy.

[@TheRobloxiansOfficialGroup]

Marinette doesn't deserve to date Adrian and doesn't deserve to date most people she is a terrible person

[@wordsmith6154]

@dorothyluna She’s a kid. I wouldn’t say that she's a bad person. She’s just a little over obsessed with her feelings, and, like anyone in the early stages of love/crushing, she sees him through rose tinted glasses. She takes time to learn that this isn't how you go about with your feelings for someone. She addresses this herself, I think, sometime in the middle of season four. It takes some time to get out of that state of mind, but she does.

[@bituinl]

@@wordsmith6154I don’t think about anyone, also stalking isn’t exactly normal behavior either. Although her friends did excuse her behavior which is bad T_T

[@Hi_Tobby]

​@@TheRobloxiansOfficialGroup worse person IS Alya

[@kakeam1892]

@@TheRobloxiansOfficialGroup FR. HE DESERVES WAY BETTER. her whole character is js obsessing n stalking Adrian. it gets WORSE cause in the movie she apparently has a tracking device set on him??? shes so creepy its insane. n this is a KIDS SHOW teaching kids its okay to have this behavior when ITS NOT.

[@JetblackJay]

I enjoyed the Marco ships except starco Star could've been single yet defying the plot they ship for no reason

[@doraeguyakaneddie6586]

I ship Tom with everyone except Star

[@Namato360]

@@doraeguyakaneddie6586 Exactly.

[@toadlord8594]

Yeah I’m a newbie to the series but I’m still shipping Tom x Marco.

[@doraeguyakaneddie6586]

@@MarcelineTheStar I don't mean it literally.

[@gemevelyn2660]

I shipped Starco until after Jackie ship. Then I shipped Kellco but then we all know the disrespect.

[@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth]

What angers me so much is how they absolutely abandoned Ludo after giving him roughly _half_ a redemption arc. I was so excited to see that lil' kappa grow to confront his crap family and become a genuine leader for his people, but it just kinda... never happened?

[@jewelsb4926]

FOR REAL I was like “oh.. where tf is Ludo he was fun :(“

[@nicoleflores2054]

I literally even forgot that he ever existed for the lack of screentime he begin to have, what the hell.

[@youthoughtiwasjotarobutitw8642]

Ludo When I read that I was like"who is the guy? Sound familiar" and then you said "kappa" I was like Ohhhh that guy *Sad*

[@KALLIRAA]

For real all of the build up for it to get dumped in the trash

[@Grim_sights]

Honestly I feel like they built him up on a weak structure. He had a really cool and intense arc, but it was being worked on a flimsy basic villain arc, and I feel like if they actually tried they could have made his beginning arc easier and better to work with.

[@GippyHappy]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the entire reason for all this shipping drama was because the actual writers couldn't agree on who should be together and were having a shipping war behind the scenes

[@AvatarWindy]

WAIT WHAT

[@itzrainy_outside4450]

Wait is that actually true? How the hell did that happen?!

[@cuddlecakes7153]

If what you have told me is true, you will have gained my trust

[@whatismyadjectiveiconfused]

example: ATLA 😂

[@red-pet-dead]

That somehow makes the show better

[@puppetpawss]

Honestly, what would've sold it for me is if they kept Star and Marco as just friends. As well as in general, just kept Star out of a relationship. Star has displayed so many times that she's just too immature to actually handle the idea of romance. And while that would be fine since she's still a kid, the issue is that it makes her come off as unreliable, kind of a wet blanket, and it makes you feel bad for the characters she initiates a relationship with because they have to receive the back end of her belt of assholery. Like, the show seriously couldn't have expected that we would be totally fine and agree with STAR after she got angry at Tom because he called her out for basically cheating on him, and the only person he heard it from was the guy she cheated with. They couldn't seriously think we'd be okay with that, right?

[@jlwiseman98]

The thing is, even if they did intend for us to disagree with star, she never apologies or improves from these issues, so it comes off like the show either doesn't think she did anything actually wrong, or that it thinks dating marco somehow fixes these issues with her character. Which is horribly wrong either way. If star can't improve from her previous relationships, then why would we want her to date marco? And why does the show think we should want that....

[@McCraeTheMediaLover]

@@jlwiseman98 Another thing horribly wrong is that "Why didn't Star get therapy like Tom Lucitor that would've made her learn from her own mistakes and open up about her issues or how come anyone hardly called out Star out on her flaws and mistakes more in a realistic,severely angry way and forced her to go back and fix her mistakes".

[@zhanalovespepsi]

The fact that I love the "friends to lovers" trope and yet still HATED starco as a ship ESPECIALLY how they got together really says a lot of things.

[@jacquelinelugo5518]

It really does, I also love the friends to lovers trope but no that ship was a hot mess. I honestly did not want them together by season 3

[@bigguy8435]

It seems we can't have good things, my friend

[@mizumafusotrue]

I still remember loving (S1 to S2) to just liking Starco (S3) until... Season 4 happened, god it was a mess... Also I have a fondness with the friends to lovers trope, though it depends on the pairing and so forth.

[@luiscoa9991]

that you like ships means that you have innocence in love, you have to accept that love is not perfect but the ships are complicating this

[@norizamohamedsufian5931]

It didn’t pay attention to the actual story, that’s the prob.

[@Peacock__]

Toffee should have came back as his return legit was one of the only things that kept me going in season 4 even if the shipping was absolute tripe

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

SURPRISE!

[@Peacock__]

@@ultrairrelevantnobody1862 It was a surprise to see barely any of the most threatening villain in the show in the last season

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

@Peacock I was referring to that one line Toffee said in both the Season 1 finale and the Season 4 semi-finale.

[@Peacock__]

@@ultrairrelevantnobody1862 i know, my lizard is literally named after the character lol

[@robbywilliamson4152]

They also could have brought in Seth of Septarsis, or Eclipsa and Globgor could have been villains. Another option might have been to have be corrupted by magic/his monster arm. Just about anything would have been better than Mina Loveberry as the endgame antagonist.

[@tinkeroni]

I find it quite funny that Tom the character we're supposed to hate in the first seasons is the best character in the entire series.

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

You gotta love genuine character development.

[@ajgameguy3674]

Both him and Eclipsa.

[@DrawciaGleam02]

He also was based on the show creator's exes.... Uh oh.

[@DeathKitta]

When the creator write a character based on her bad exes and accidentally makes him develop into good character. And writing the love interest based on her husband and accidentally makes him develop into bad character.

[@marinikaye]

This is unrelated to the topic but I love your brunhilde pfp ☺️

[@genaculver56]

When I first watched the show I was incredibly obsessed with Starco, but after revisiting it I could understand why some people didn’t like it. It was definitely forced at times. While I still like Starco I can’t help but also like Tomstar and Tomco. Or just Tom in general.

[@suckmynuts1234]

I hate Starco, and i think if they forced it more they can explode. Man it just ruinned the show, they had such a cutie friendship, and i think it could happend in a more natural way if they made them fall in love step for step starting in Season 2 or even in season 1, but they FORCEDO SO BAD Everytime i watch them together i felt uncomfortable. And I DON'T EVEN NEED TO TALK ABOUT TOM He had such a good development as a character and he didn't deserved that all😢😢😢

[@-cat_in_space-]

we stan tom

[@BearSmoothie]

Tom was king

[@ariannebrodeur]

Yeah back when it was airing I hated Tomstar with a passion and was fine with Starco and understood it as the end goal from the beginning. But looking back I'm sure I'd be okay with Tomstar if I watched the whole series again but those two still feel the least compatible romantically to me. Literally Tomco has more chemistry than either lad with Star lmao

[@KanaHyoshi]

That awkward moment when you have better chemistry with your girlfriend's ex.

[@MidoriTheAwesome]

The real ship

[@HiAgainTheNameIsStillAyle]

What about when you have a better chemistry with the ex of your now girlfriend?

[@Msmithjonesraven]

CHOTTOO MATTHE!!!!!

[@ariberry8031]

@@HiAgainTheNameIsStillAyle literally what they said

[@HiAgainTheNameIsStillAyle]

@@ariberry8031 Oh, my b

[@Moonstar79]

*Daron Nefcy:* “Tom is the amalgamation of all my ex boyfriends and he’s meant to be unlikeable.” *Tom: is the most likeable character in the show by S3*

[@iancortescontreras6084]

when the ex is better than the actual boyfriend

[@hxddenprson9791]

Indeed he was the only character I actually enjoyed watching in the whole show

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

It really says something about Nefcy and all of her past relationships. It makes me question if she was the bad one in the relationship.

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

Also Nefcy based Star and Marco's relationship on her and her husband..... Let that sink in for a little bit.

[@chomosuke0720]

Really makes you wonder who was the real problem in her relationships lol

[@Rainjojo]

A boy and a girl can’t be in a show as best friends without getting shipped. To me, it seemed Marco never showed interest in star, and it all felt rushed to an extent where it’s surrounded only by that one thing. (Like miraculous ladybug).

[@Lucki_MORELIKEUNLUCKI]

Well well,anime shipping is worse.

[@greenmeowstic3017]

I'm pretty happy that in WOY Sylvia and Wander were always meant to be just friends. A large portion of the fandom agrees as well. 👍

[@nicoleflores2054]

@@greenmeowstic3017 bro agreed, their chemistry feels and is platonic, they cared about each other and help each other towards their problems and insecurities. their friendship is so good and I'm glad it didn't went into a friends to lovers trope.

[@Kumorini]

@@Lucki_MORELIKEUNLUCKI Why are you bringing up anime?

[@jojonta2119]

You should watch glitchtechs. The main characters are male and female and they have one of my favorite platonic relationships I've ever seen. No romance here, just complete bros of opposite genders.

[@Dawn0777]

I really felt bad for tom. He really did everything to better himself for star. I was ok with starco not being a thing because of the developments with star and tom. Then they just ruined it in the end.

[@SukiNoKoe]

Tom breaking up with Star was to show how much he had grown. I feel like people just don't get this...or they ignore it because they like Tomstar too much.

[@jpreyes6640]

@@SukiNoKoe We can appreciate our boy growing and also hate the fact that they had him go through hearbreak just for the sake of a far worse relationship for the main character.

[@SukiNoKoe]

@@jpreyes6640 "Far worse"?? Star and Marco have the BEST relationship in the whole ass show lol

[@jpreyes6640]

@@SukiNoKoe I meant what I said, still sticking to it

[@SukiNoKoe]

@@jpreyes6640 no, explain how his relationship with Star is BAD, please?

[@lincolnjohn8227]

"He can't because Tomco is a thing!" I little Freudian slip there 😏

[@HazbinCovenWitch]

Me who shipped Tomstar, (also JanTom) but only for the times they weren't toxic to each other: 🕴🏻😅

[@SarcasticChorus]

Maybe just a little. Also Tomstar is just an infinitely worse sounding name.

[@G.F.SF55]

Wha- I missed that part! XD can you put the timestamp please?

[@CheckeredCardz]

@@G.F.SF55 9:29 somewhere around here

[@reasyrandom]

I mean, even their voice actors ship it.

[@foxlikessapphics]

Not to be rude to Daron Nefcy, but she's straight up admitted that Star and Marco are her self-insert characters to represent her and her husband. That explains why all of the great plot points and lore were pushed to the side in favor of pushing Starco at every corner.

[@viviangarcia5696]

She shouldnt have create the characters if she was going to be possessive over the character development. The moment she revealed marco and star were self reflection of her and her husband, i should have known this show was more of a self indulged for her than a creation for an audience. It revealed her possessive and insecure nature of her characters especially marco who she see her husband. I dont think it was the right desision or healthy to think star and marco as her real life relationship because the moment the characters are put in a setting or event that contradict her main view, she adds plot devices to remind you that this is the final end couple so don't try to go out of the norm. If star represent her, there is no way marco is ending up with anyone than with her, nor letting the characters just be in a platonic friendship. Yeah, there been shows where the creator put themselves in their shows at time, but i haven't seen a creator put so much of themselves in a character where in the end creates a strict one sided mindset over what the characters relationship and life should be in expense of their character development.

[@xblade149]

I mean she can still self insert but still develop them

[@nicoleflores2054]

yet, that doesn't cover how bad the writing was, Alex Hirsch and his twin sister are basically Dipper and Mabel Aka. self inserts but he actually managed to give them personalities and important roles in the story, along with actual development. even if Star and Marco were self inserts, they could've give them real chemistry and better ways to make them canon

[@adachiandmarie6024]

Damn her husband must've been slamming that poon

[@TopHatMacadamia]

So what your saying is. They were a Tumblr OC.

[@Stanco366]

Star was horrible. She treated Tom horrible when they got back together. And Marco just ALWAYS showed up at the wrong time. Overall, season 4 was my least favorite.

[@ultimatebishoujo29]

That’s so true

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

Yep, Season 4 sucked quite a bit.

[@nicholase82]

I think the show started going down hill in season 3 when they tried to suvert expectation.

[@TheDeathmail]

She didn't really treat Tom horribly... instead, Tom realized that her heart wasn't really with him... she wanted to like him.... she wanted to make him happy.... but wanting to like someone means you don't actually like them....

[@JohnSacapano]

Season 4 continues to be a fever dream for me. I officially head canon that the show ended in Battle for Mewni.

[@Mehluvno]

Tom was such a good guy who had problems in the beginning, but he put in so much effort for star and star just never saw how much he did for her. He did and gave everything and her problem was with his anger management?! (Which is valid) but I’m this situation it just seemed like she only saw the bad in Tom, that’s why he was Villainized in the 1st season so much cause we only saw her perspective. But after getting to know Tom as a character I really feel for him cause he was willing to die for star, even just for her happiness. Tom was heavily betrayed by both star and Marco but still stayed friends with both of them. It hurt so much that he didn’t want to be around them, but he still was the few when they needed him. He loved her so much he was willing to loose her for her happiness even tho she betrayed him. He was so understanding with them both just for him to be right the whole time. I personally think star should have stayed with Tom. But In a lot of ways I think she miss treated Tom and she just couldn’t appreciate what she had with him

[@WhiscashGirl]

I never get tired of hearing people ripping on SVTFOE’s ending/last season so this was very satisfying lol. I wasn’t super invested in any ship, but I always hoped from the beginning that Star and Marco would stay just friends bc it’s still depressingly rare to see the male and female lead in media *not* get together. But I could have been fine with Starco if it had been written well and not…what we got, which threw so much more likeable and believable characters and relationships under the bus - especially Tom who imo had some of the best character development on the show (he and Eclipsa were the only ones I cared about by the end), but it felt like he, Jackie and Kelly never got the chance to be cool characters in their own right once they weren’t needed for relationship drama. This show made so many bizarre writing choices, it’s a shame it’s now mostly remembered for the horrible ending bc the first few seasons were really cute and fun.

[@jellytabby2135]

ikr?? tom worked so hard and it was so painful to see him getting thrown under the bus like that in the show

[@Poison_AppleXx]

Tom really tried and it always makes me sad to see how they kinda threw him aside after his relationship drama bit. He was always my favourite character, such good development and character yet such poor writing. They could EASILY have involved him more.

[@yurimartins1455]

I have to confess, I was happy when he and star broke up, but Man, he's such a cool character, seeing how he was in the beginning of the show vs the end, is very impressive, but idk, I don't like the chemical between the two

[@Poison_AppleXx]

@@yurimartins1455 I liked when they broke up as well. It also helped to show development. I’d never have wanted them to be together in the end, it just sucks that Tom was used basically _only_ for relationship drama.

[@yurimartins1455]

@@Poison_AppleXx yeah man, me too, like, if they did, was going to be so much worse, cause, they did all this show: "I like you Marco" - "but I'm with Jackie" "I don't like Jackie anymore I'm going to mewni" and in the end they keep separate, if this was going to happen, was better they just be friends the whole show

[@aVoice_art]

I really wish that they just had a sibling like relationship-

[@ginthemaid112]

Honestly I felt really weird that they started liking each other in that regard :/

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

Jack and Ashi

[@oatmeal8524]

SAME😭🤚

[@zombies4evadude24]

They did for the most part in the first season, but the moment when Star started sniffing Marco’s jacket like a cocaine addict but for lust… was when they were at the point of no return for her.

[@ayogothitbyabuss6009]

Seriously I only watched this cuz my friend said so I hated it it’s trying so hard to be original but it’s just a gravity falls remake

[@althealee9375]

I think even the soul-bonding can be a friend thing. You can be someone’s absolute best friend with zero romantic feelings

[@alli8373]

Yeah but star and marco's romantic relationship for eachother grew more and more throughout the show

[@iiSwearTV]

@@alli8373and we’re present since the beginning of s2

[@SuperDestroyerFox]

@@alli8373 forcefully by the hands of the writers I guess but yeah, they did.

[@Diiv_Tiid]

​@SuperDestroyerFox well duh, the characters aren't autonomous

[@OrionDawn15]

@@Diiv_Tiid But you can write them in a way that they'd grow on each other naturally, instead of it feeling contrived.

[@erikahawks5063]

I personally would’ve loved a season all about Marco trying to get dimensional scissors, fighting heckapoo and whatnot

[@cwanimations]

“If you can’t write her to be interesting, you can always just make her gay.” *best line of 2021*

[@b.h.4249]

Poor Asami deserved better. I do like her ending up with Korra, though.

[@Dave102693]

He’s not lying tho, and it worked. Lol

[@ExeErdna]

It's true, that's the easy way out

[@ExeErdna]

@@b.h.4249 Korra felt like leftovers even though people shipped them from S1.

[@b.h.4249]

@@ExeErdna Why did Korra feel like leftovers to you? Just because Asami dated one guy before her? It was very late in the finale but that's nothing new for such a show and Nickelodeon censorship didn't allow for anything else.

[@er7ic77]

The "Running with Scissors" episode should have changed Marcos' personality arc forever. After that episode he was 30 years old. He lived over half of his life doing dangerous magical quests. How and why would someone who had lived that life suddenly go back to the his "old teenage self"? With the same wants, needs and desires? During the time he was "gone", he should/would have had "adult life experiences". In the S4 Adult Marco episode "Ransomgram” we meet a warrior woman named Brunzetta. It is implied that they "quested" together. His personality should not have reverted to "classic teenage" Marco. This should have been the starting point for a more mature Marco. Going forward he should only see Star as more like a "little sister" than as a romantic attraction.

[@testerwulf3357]

Actually, reverting back to his old self is pretty standard.. Anyone who's had a dream where they lived through another life tends to bounce back to their old self (which what he went through is similar). I myself had a dream like it! I dreamt I was a cannibalistic man, went from birth like 60+ as him. When I woke up I couldn't remember who I was as to me I'd just lived 60+ years as someone else..After like 5 hours I was able to remember to my real life and bounced back to my old personality and stuff easily. I have the same needs, wants, and desires of someone my age, it's not that complicated. I lived another life LONGER than he did and am still my old self, so I think he can manage. I see people my age as people my age and am still attracted to people my age..I just left that dream in the past. Also had a friend who dreamt they lived the life of a person who eventually died in war, they didn't act any different and saw kids their age as attractive as well.

[@danmakes2497]

@@testerwulf3357 Except with Marco it wasn't a dream, and he LIVED through it; he should have been an adult mind stuck with a teenage body from then on.

[@zero1zerolast393]

@@testerwulf3357 no. We don't remember our dreams to well, like at all. They are not stored in our long term memories. A better example is people who had fake lives in comas. Most people who wake up from those lives often times become depress, because there whole lives imploded before them. It's not a pretty thing to see or read about

[@Case2_0]

@@danmakes2497 our minds can do weird things

[@Case2_0]

@@zero1zerolast393 and then there was that guy who spoke only English, went into a coma, and woke up fluent in only French.

[@AJSdanmakufu]

Man this just reminded me how bitter I was about Jarco's unceremonious ending, and Kellco getting taken out into an alley and shot in the back. I was there for pretty much the whole ride, and it was such a mixed bag because as the show got more plot and lore-focused (which I loved) the shipping stuff got more heavy-handed. Jarco really sucked that it had to end, but Kellco was just -- as you said -- disrespected so hard. It makes it hard for me to look back on the show fondly, even though there's lots of elements I really liked about it.

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

Phenomenal Potential, Clunky Execution.

[@karencoon6243]

Everything you said is exactly how I feel about the show. I really enjoyed the plot as there were some really interesting stuff going on. I was upset with Jackie and Marco breaking up and then again with Kelly OFF SCREEN! But I also just didn't enjoy Starco as a romantic pairing personally, I just wanted them to be best friends. I think they worked best that way. And don't even get me started on that finale my god was it the most awful thing I've seen. XD

[@LeadGamerX01]

same here mate. Kind of said the same thoughts I had about the show

[@arellajardin8188]

I choose to believe there’s an alternate reality where Marco moved into Kelly’s hair, and they are still going on wild martial arts adventures through the multiverse.

[@theblackswordsman5039]

That what happens when you make shipping your number one priority, I mean just look at the owl house.

[@beckwells25]

Okay but, complete tangent over here, can you imagine if there WAS a subversion from Blood Moon Ball? A whole 'I seem to have accidentally tripped into being soulmates with my best friend that I have zero romantic feelings for' thing that turned out LEGIT platonic? That would make the whole undoing of the curse so much more satisfying man

[@huntercool2232]

OG Fan Shippers: “Well, we got what we wanted.. But at what cost?”

[@blankblank8424]

Quality

[@micaelaproano6128]

"Did you do it?" "Yes." "And what did it cost?" "The shows quality."

[@nicoleflores2054]

@@micaelaproano6128 oof

[@ghost_of_luna]

@@micaelaproano6128 yea I’ve watched this show for a long time and was disappointed- ;-;

[@ikimiyu]

damyum

[@MechanizedAngelz]

For me, my problem is I started off as a Starco shipper who gradually ended up disliking the ship as the relationship stuff just kept going, and going, and it just kept making Star, and Marco worse, and worse, just look at anybody who dared to date them after the Blood Moon, it almost always ends badly for them... and now I'm a Tomco shipper because they have a really good bond and because Tom was such a good character in the end.

[@YorkJonhson]

Yeah, it got to a point where I genuinely liked every character that was teased to get together with Star and Marco (Jackie, Kelly, Hekapoo, reformed Tom, etc.), but it started to feel like they were all expendable in the name of love triangle drama. So by the time that Star and Marco finally did get together, I couldn't even enjoy the relationship because it felt like half of the cast was screwed over and sidelined for the sake of it.

[@MechanizedAngelz]

@@YorkJonhson, _right?_ I genuinely ended up shipping Kelly, and Marco then he broke up with her, and his character ever since then was somewhat ruined in my eyes so, I just like to think of those moments when Tom and Marco were bonding in Tom's vehicle because that was a great episode, and I loved it... with Star though, I can't think of a single person to ship her with, watching her be with Tom was _just_ torture as a Tom fan, and Marco is _definitely_ not an option, and besides that, I'd rather she just never enters a relationship again... for me, Marco's character was absolutely ruined from Starco.

[@HazbinCovenWitch]

I shipped Tomstar in season 3 only. I HATED THE KISSING BOOTH EPISODE!! I also shipped JanTom. They made sense to me personality-wise. BUT THEY HAD TO RUIN IT WITH THAT ONE EPISODE THAT CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF!! 😫😭😡

[@trika91]

@@HazbinCovenWitch Which episode?

[@xedgelord75x65]

I knew it was never gonna happen but I always wanted Janco or Janstar to be a thing.

[@battybuddy]

I preferred Marco and Jackie. I thought Jackie’s comparing Marcos fails as him just getting back up “just like skateboarding” awesome. And Kelly made me like "did I miss something?"

[@nathanosaka3977]

marco was better with her , she was the best ship for him tbh

[@otherguy5926]

Marco+hekapoo= perfection

[@brian_Austin27]

@@otherguy5926 yeah I like that one and TomxMarco

[@garrettjackson1451]

Ya I have an alternate universe of a jarco ending in my head and it’s going to stay that way

[@ddbob1]

I hated starco. I loved tomstar, tomco, jarco, and kelco. Literally every other ship. They made more sense than the canon one. I will never get over Tom and star breaking up...never lol.

[@Lej_arts_99]

Lol I got over it by shipping jana and tom they both just deserved better 😭

[@trika91]

What makes me bitter about the TomStar ship, was that it was revealed that Star’s signature devil-horned headband was a gift from Tom, which is cute cause it gives them matching couple horns (Tom’s real ones with Star’s fake). Star always wears her horns, and it felt a little wrong that she forgot that he gave them to her and continues to still wear them when he points this out, and after both their breakups. It felt like a (ex)girlfriend continuing to wear a necklace (or whatever accessory) after breaking up and moving on to a new boyfriend (who may feel insecure that she’s still wearing her ex’s gift; like she still things/cares about him while dating someone else. [That’s like finding out that Marco’s signature red jacket was a childhood gift from Jackie]). I agree with Sarcastic that the TomStar ship worked. Tom was able to fix himself and mellowed out *a lot*. He also had that dynamic where he can match his energy with Star’s and keep up with her antics, but is the more levelheaded and surprisingly reasonable one of the two. He handled Star blowing him off and ditching him way better compared to his earlier attitude, as he had every right to be mad at her; Star was the one being irrational, with Tom being the one to get her to talk things out. The relationship could’ve worked, but of course Starco had to happen, and Star had to be a terrible girlfriend as an excuse for Tom to breakup with her.😓

[@ku7a94]

I mean, if my ex gives me a nice plain shirt while we were still dating, I would continue to wear the shirt. Not because the ex gave it to me, but because it's a nice shirt

[@sagivaleon7355]

@@ku7a94 It wasn't just a nice shirt though, it was a headband that specifically had horns to match his own. Its a bit more personal, especially with how she *always* wears it yunno?

[@MsWinxmusa]

@@ku7a94 I agree. My bf gave me Tanjiro earrings (from Kimetsu) and I almost always use it. Even if we break up I'd keep using it because the earrings are cute, not because he was the one who gave me... Star probably always use the horns because she likes them, not because it matches Tom's.

[@1nc0rr1g1bl3]

You took the words right out of my mouth... Truly, a shame.

[@MethuselahWinter]

Maybe she just really liked the horns and it became a staple of her aesthetic. Nobody should have to change their daily outfit, favorite items and stuff they use because they aren’t with the person who gave it too them. That’s one reason I hate getting gifts. If I become attached to an item I wear or use everyday. Something that fits my costume or aesthetic, something the has functional value, do I just throw it away or something because I don’t have a relationship with the giver of that item anymore? I’d have to give away some of my favorite things if I thought like that. I’m not super materialistic but I do get attached to stuff. Clothes, decorations, jewelry etc.. if it’s pretty and I like it, I don’t care where it came from, I don’t wanna get rid of it. Unless it has their name or face on it, the person who gave it shouldn’t matter. It’s a gift after all.

[@zenmaster8]

the blood moon totally could have been platonic soul bonding and their misinterpretations of what they should be feeling was what made them so obsessed with each other. That would have been an interesting twist

[@doccanigetsomecandy7809]

That a fucking great idea

[@spaghetto9836]

I love that.

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

Hell. YEAH. Platonic soulmates for life! I need to see more of these in shows. It’s such a neat concept and a nice subversion to the “boy and girl leads get together” cliché.

[@trypotherapy7478]

Yes that was actually where I hoped it would go, BUT NOPE. It just was never mentioned again and that just made their relationship seem forced. (-_-) Star VS the forces of the blood moon of shipping

[@genericname2747]

"I now pronounce you, platonic best friends forever. Go fight evil and don't kiss"

[@doraeguyakaneddie6586]

I feel like Star shouldn't have ended up with anyone TBH. It's clear that Star (Mostly her season 3 and 4 version ) is to emotionally immature for a relationship Side note: Isn't it weird how Star is basically a different character each season?

[@Namato360]

She's terrible. She committed genocide, and she literally was annoying in every relationship.

[@Namato360]

SHE IS. First season, she was wild and kinda evil. 2nd season, she was more mature, but jealous. 3rd season she was alot more fine, and 4th season, SHE WENT BATSHIT CRAZY AND IRRATIONAL.

[@doraeguyakaneddie6586]

@@Namato360 Like my brain has trouble with the fact that her season 1 and season 2 version are the same character.

[@icecreamhero2375]

@@doraeguyakaneddie6586 Well 1 and 2 made sense to me. In season 1 she was a fish out of water and didn't know what it was like to be on earth. But going into season two she eased up and got less crazy.

[@Rosemont104]

According to the show's second tie-in book, her behavior in the first season was an act meant to appease Marco, making her later personality her "real" one. That reeks of clumsy ret-con, tho.

[@olegoleg258]

I'll be honest, I wish for a plotline that's probably not light-hearted enough for this show, where basically one of the two realizes that the reason why they're drawn to each other is because of the blood moon and not because of their own choice or feelings and that they have to deal with the circumstance and decision of whether they try to be together and be happy but because of some other entity, or try and break free, yet being very unhappy in the process and possibly removing a happy future - as now they might not love each other anymore. Seeing the struggle from the nerdy, awkward thinker and the usually go lucky feeler each dealing with it in a different way and seeing what they think would in my opinion be awesome

[@tabledrawzz801]

Oh yea that's such a good idea

[@queso5146]

Fanfic Time

[@cindyxoxo3738]

I feel like Marco really toyed with Jackie, Kelly, and Heckapoo’s feelings. They deserved better.

[@thehipsterhamster1929]

Wait Heckapoo and marco where a thing? When did I miss that? Fuck

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

@@thehipsterhamster1929 he spent 16 years in another dimension chasing after her

[@mooncake387]

thats literally life, many of us toy with other peoples feelings because we cant get with the people we love, and when we do we break up with them..its shitty but its life

[@zombies4evadude24]

And Star really messed up Kelly & Jackie’s relationships, as well as her own with Tom. Point being: Both of the main protagonists morphed into the most unlikable characters by the end, which is sad.

[@papyrussupremacy]

@@thehipsterhamster1929 technically yes he chased after her for like 20 years or something in another dimension it was very weird

[@vm141789]

I also thought Hekapoo was done a little dirty. I mean, sixteen YEARS of Marco's life was dedicated to her, literally longer than he's known his parents or friends. It doesn't help that it aged Marco to an adult while Star was still only a teenager. That... that just made Starco uncomfortable.

[@ijornhribrudkrvir]

YEAH FR like after aging into an adult in another dimension, they just sort of gloss over that even if his mental state were to revert to that of a teenager, which I'm not sure it does, dude still has the experience of an adult. I can't imagine any situation where a character like that ending up with a young teen is okay and not like- super weird.

[@brandonlyon730]

Yeah and poor Hekapoo, just does offscreen after the stupid kill all magic thing happened and that gets basically brushed off like she was never hugely important to anyone.

[@COSun25]

@@brandonlyon730 We need the Hekapoo spinoff that we deserve.

[@bibiberrycrunch9223]

I never thought about that... but isn't hekapoo like some hundred years old. That would make it weird too...

[@mikemorro140]

@@ijornhribrudkrvir The weird thing is they do actually bring it up in later episodes that Marco is canonically in his 30s so yeah it is a little weird

[@jojovox]

Kelly was absolutely disrespected in this show. She was a minor character the first 2 seasons, but the latter 2 seasons she grew to one of my favorites, and I thought her and Marco had AMAZING chemistry, as did Star and Tom. So I've decided that in my mind, the show didn't end with Starco. Star and Tom stayed together, Marco and Kelly stayed together, everyone lived happily ever after, give or take a massive magical genocide. Starco was overrated and did NOT need to be a thing. Star and Tom worked fine, but I think them breaking up Marco and Kelly OFF SCREEN just so Starco could happen was the hammer on the nail that Starco was gonna be a disaster. You have to have messed up pretty bad when even the Starco shippers, who got their wish, are like "Yo, this kinda blows a lot more than I thought."

[@andrewfairweather4742]

Yeah her and marco was the most realistic ship in this whole show but that break up between episodes just made the fans leave and give up

[@cstokes3661]

That out of no where break up with m and k was a spit in the face

[@zombies4evadude24]

@@cstokes3661 while getting pissed on, whipped with a wet towel, dunked in a clogged toiled bowl, beat with a bladed fidget spinner, showered with lemon juice on the cuts with the rest of the lemons thrust into your eyes, and after all that forced to guzzle the shit covered piss from the commode as you slowly bleed to death on the cold ground… That wouldn’t even be nearly enough to describe the *pure disrespect* of that moment and the lost potential of the show as a whole.

[@nicoleflores2054]

right?? like, what's the point on creating a romance that it's clearly not gonna end at all.

[@BiaRosy]

EXACTLY!!!

[@cdclem]

I love ships too! The USS Arizona is my favorite ship. It was built in June 19th, 1915, and it took about 15 months to build it. On the early morning of December 7th 1941, Pearl Harbor was attacked, and the USS Arizona, which happened to be in Battleship Row was attacked along with the other battleships and cruisers in the bay of the Harbor. Several bombs struck Arizona, where it was sunken. About a year after the bombing, it was viewed and deemed to be a total loss. About 20 years after it had sunken, a memorial was built for it, honoring the ship and her crew who were lost on that infamous day.

[@nerdydragonfan8673]

About the whole 'Star should have broken up with Tom thing' I was personally happy that Tom got to brake up with her, because Star was being an absolutely horrible girlfriend to him for the entirety last season. Tom's decision to brake up with her made me feel like the writers at lest had some understanding of that, and that Tom deserved to right to say 'this is enough' and leave Star for some who will actually love him (and no cheat on him and led him on for several months after).

[@exloster9624]

I agree. In a way it felt satisfying, that it was him who got to end it.

[@thegrillagorilla1]

Starco was set up from the very beginning and Tomco was clearly supposed to never work out since they'd already split up before the show began. It's not as big of a mess as others are claiming it is, they're just mad their head canons didn't pan out the way they wanted it to. I thought they had moments where they made plenty of progress, Star was never supposed to be perfect as a leader OR as a partner and it's made clear time and time again. Marco made a huge decision to leave home for her and it was painful seeing him getting the cold shoulder for so long. He was fighting in the Neverzone longer than he's been alive just to get her dimensional scissors back, that's a million times more of a sacrifice than Tom made with trying to remove all his demons. I'm pretty sure Tom realised that and bowed out as his friend, how can you NOT respect everything Marco's done for her?

[@nerdydragonfan8673]

@@thegrillagorilla1 1st of all: I never said I didn't think Starco was endgame, that's pretty obvious. 2nd: I not mad because my ship didn't happen, I was making a point about why I personally enjoyed that Tom broke up with Star and not the other way around. 3rd: How did you even come to the conclusion that I was talking about why Stom is better as a ship. 4th: Being a bad girlfriend isn't a character flaw of Star, because the show made it clear that she wouldn't do that to Marco. Star and Marco cheating on their lovers with each other WASN'T shown to be a character flaw that they had to work on or redeem themselves for, it was just for stupid drama. 5th: My comment said nothing about Marco NOT giving more up for Star than Tom and being a better partner for her. And 6th: If Star wanted Marco because he would be a better partner for her doesn't excuse the fact that they cheated on the person they were with, lie about it, and lead them on afterward. My entire point was about why that was wrong and that Tom deserved the right to break up with Star for that. You can justify it all you want, but there was no reason, in the show's situation, that they should be excused for cheating.

[@IMayOrMayHaveNot]

@@thegrillagorilla1 Thing is, the idea was poorly executed, thus turning the result into something forced and unnaturally unraveled. When we write character arcs, we establish the basic premise (Marco and Star will end up together), the journey (how they will end up together), and the final destination (they are together). The how was the entire problem.

[@purpleprincess1239]

I absolutely agree.

[@gaychelthereader373]

Fun fact of the day: I know how much pretty much every Shipper who wanted anything other then Starco as a finally hated it, but you know what’s worse? I know a few people who shipped Starco, AND THEY ARE MAD TOO- that shows just how bad this execution of the ship was. Because not only the people who didn’t like the ship weren’t happy, The people who were ACTUALLY SUPPORTING THE SHIP didn’t like the ending either. That is a big red flag for: You messed up badly

[@jihogariando911]

Huh i wonder if people still want the starco ship or im the only one who still loves it also i realize how shipping could really get out of hand ik almost every ship is is out of hand like gay shipping but i didnt know there could be more worse than gay shipping

[@DamenJEver]

I shipped them hard but in the end it was just so rushed that once the happy feeling left it was just a big fat space of meh. I felt like if they had gotten more seasons and built their way there then it could have been really really good but now it was just so fast that you can't really enjoy it when you re-watch it

[@LillyFilly4272]

Starco fan! Hated what they did. The character assasinations were awful and Kelly, Tom, and Jackie deserve better

[@xrrgr]

@@jihogariando911 gay shipping isn’t bad or out of hand….

[@aramaty1711]

No one said it was bad but it does get out of hand example: my hero academia

[@soggiewater]

See, I hated the fact that they ended up together, but I didn’t think it was inevitable after the blood moon ball incident. I had a lot of hope in the show to end up making their soul bonding thing into something platonic. It would’ve been a great way to show that not all soulmates are romantic and that there is a such thing as platonic soulmates. But nooooooo they had to make them catch feelings!!! Marco and Jackie and Star and Tom were great!! The guys got the girls, everyone was friends, and everyone was happy… but of course a male lead and a female lead can’t stay just friends… I’ll never forgive them for ruining the last season with all of the shipping bs

[@Dave102693]

Agreed

[@animachara8732]

Agreed too

[@miss_chelles1338]

Basically.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

That's not what soulmate means though lol. They just shouldn't have had that episode or emphasized the sibling bond instead.

[@flx_res]

Totally agree with you 💖

[@jlwiseman98]

Something worth mentioning is the reason daron didnt just....make starco happen earlier so they dated onscreen is because she thought, and i quote, it would of been "too boring". Yes, she actually said that. Look, im not an expert, but if you think your main couple is more interesting when they're not together then when they’re together.....then maybe they aren’t a good couple to match up. Jarco, tomstar, and kellco, were definitely not boring to watch, its not hard to write a compelling relationship onscreen, so all im hearing is starco was just uninteresting in comparison.

[@superaarthi]

I don't think that's exactly what she meant? The "too boring" part likely isn't about *Star and Marco* but about *any end-game couple*. I'm not sure I agree with this, but there are definitely folk who see the push and pull of will-they/won't-they and speculating about which couple will end up together as more interesting than showing your hand about the happily ever after.

[@jlwiseman98]

@superaarthi I wasn't exactly saying star and marco themselves were the boring part. However, if the creator themselves doesn't think they're interesting as an active couple compared to what they went with despite having no problem with the other couples....it sounds like they lacked ideas to keep them interesting without the will they won't they and that's kinda a problem.

[@leonidtimofeev1178]

>It would've been "too boring" And then Lumity proved that early established pairings can work... if the writers are competent.

[@ninavale.]

also...this show isn't a slice of life??? It's not a rom-com where it's all about that. It's action-adventure show. I feel like even if the couple was boring but it was on the side people would watch for the crazy adventures and world-saving shit...

[@sadlobster1]

In Star Vs., there was only ONE ship that mattered most to me...Princess Penelope Spiderbite and Slime. When I saw them bonding in Monster Bash, part of me thought they were teasing us with yet ANOTHER ship. Whereas ANOTHER part hoped that they did more with them, if my theory was correct. Imagine my surprise when in Surviving the Spiderbites, they actually made this couple CANON...and they weren't even the leads. I know it doesn't seem like a big deal but in my opinion, Penny and Slime had the more wholesome relationship of all the others (besides Eclipsa and Globgore)

[@trypotherapy7478]

Yes, symbiotic relationship from start to finish!

[@shadowwriter4538]

That's one of my favorite ships that I was more invested in; it was on the same level as Eclipsa and Globgor's relationship.

[@Dave102693]

Ikr?

[@unripetheberrby6283]

True ah so cute 🥰

[@getjinxed101]

I don't even know who these people are and I love the ship already

[@starbits14]

I never bought Marco reciprocating Star's feelings, really. I don't think it was ever depicted properly, and that "I've always felt that way" line was incredibly forced. Star became weird and obsessive over her feelings with Marco, and would've liked to see her learn the difficult lesson of "just because you like someone, doesn't mean they'll like you back." I think it'd be really amazing to have the protagonist of an animated show aimed at kids/teenagers to teach that lesson, along with subvert to expectation of the girl and boy leads ending up together. We're long overdue for a protagonist facing that heartache but the friendship recovering from it in the end.

[@regurgitated_kitty]

@Ashley41 Yeah, but none of that matters because he ended up liking her and they end up together in the end. She didn't learn anything.

[@starbits14]

@@ThisIsAshley41 an entire episode dedicated to Star wanting to sniff a filthy hoodie is enough for me.

[@sketchyjulia]

Yea and “I’ve always felt this way” is a lie too cause the Truth Teller box thing said Marco wasn’t lying when he said he had a crush on Jackie, and the Naysaya curse affects someone when they’re trying to ask out someone they love

[@sketchyjulia]

It’s one of the reasons I appreciate the Regular Show finale, even if the love triangle got grating it’s honestly good Mordecai didn’t end up with Margaret or CJ, besides the fact he was a wishy washy simp you shouldn’t expect to meet the love of your life in your early twenties/teen years

[@KarutoZoaldyeck]

Kipo

[@SilverTune]

Yeah I preferred Kelly and Marco, my friend criticizes them as just being rebounds and that’s not healthy, but I think their dynamic was entertaining and yes it was a rebound couple but I think they were definitely into each other in a more genuine way And in season 3 and 4 I think Tom and star actually was getting to be a pretty healthy relationship, not considering marco’s existence, Tom was changing and growing and you’re right, star and Tom were entertaining together My two cents

[@sadracklimon2999]

Your friend is right. #Starco4Life

[@SukiNoKoe]

Kelly and Marco just started hanging out because they were both lonely. NOT a good reason to start a romance...just awful, tbh

[@AnOkayDogDad]

I was really upset with how they treated Tom and Stars relationship. It felt like character assassination and they made Star a horrible gf just so Tom will dump her so she can be with Marco. It broke my heart because I liked them together but they ruined it

[@anonomous5157]

I remember back in middle school when this was out my friends who all shipped starco were trying to brainwash me into thinking that starco was a better ship since I felt like tomstar was more matched. It was a war 😂

[@ElzariusUnity]

@@anonomous5157 Tomco for the win. The only reason we didn't see it is cause boys kissing in 2019 was still a no-no

[@Randompersonyouhaventmet]

@@ElzariusUnity nah tomstar is op tomco sucks as hell -_-

[@BearSmoothie]

@@RandompersonyouhaventmetI’m not homophobic or anything but Tom x Marco seems weird

[@Randompersonyouhaventmet]

@@BearSmoothie finally a sane person enter the chat :)

[@stellar_nathy6679]

the biggest plot twist that this show could throw us (and that would solve the shipping problems) is making Marco and Tom dance during the blood moon dance

[@eadyzrx322]

That'd be funny. At least those two were interesting when they were together rather than starco losing the actual personality of the duo

[@gummidon1618]

Legit there’s fics about that and they’re better then the actual blood moon episode

[@nicoleflores2054]

i mean, that could've a really interesting plot twist, think about it, a demon guy trying to impress his ex in a ball while her best friend is trying him to get away from her, accidentally dancing together? knowing their dynamic in season one, those two would've had the development of becoming friends like season two had, along with starting a mutual bonding towards each other.

[@user-sf7yn8ud9i]

@@nicoleflores2054 Yeah. It would've been more interesting tbh.

[@nicoleflores2054]

@@user-sf7yn8ud9i true

[@Jack75188]

Me when Starco began: OMG, i hope they will get together Me when Starco is canon:...Yay?

[@boothique]

19:32 "something is seriously wrong if you can't even enjoy your own ship becoming canon"

[@Jack75188]

@@boothique FACTS. I don't even like the fact that the ship i have been rooting for become canon.

[@DzakyAmany]

"I won... *but at what cost?"*

[@malsharked]

I honestly just think that their execution was really terrible- they totally shoved it down the viewers throats and didn't make it seem natural AT ALL. I for one am perfectly fine with the ship! But their execution progressivly made it worse

[@Jack75188]

@@malsharked "i have love you from the beginning" No you don't, stop lying.

[@noratheweeb9387]

Oh GODS I loved Kelly so much. XD She was so adorable and had my heart IMMEDIATELY. They would’ve been so fucking cute together. And it is SUCH bullshit they broke them up between episodes. Literally, this alone is proof enough the show was ruined by shipping.

[@blueblamkiss]

A better friendship that came naturally was Steven Universe I believe. Steven & Connie were showed from the start how they became friends, not jumping in crazy fast non realistic way. When in the final episode they didn’t make a giant big deal for only like a millisecond on the last episode.

[@doccanigetsomecandy7809]

And another thing was it was clear that they like each other and it didn't feel like there was a gun at own head.

[@RainyStast]

I have the opposite opinion, cause for Steven Universe, it just seemed like them dating came out of nowhere. *Spoiler* Steven asking Connie to marry him randomly like that should have been a clue he was not mentally stable enough to be in a relationship. So at the end it just felt forced and out of nowhere for me, especially because they were shown as strictly friends for the entirety of the series until the end.

[@trypotherapy7478]

@@RainyStast I bet that they had them together because that was were they were planning to go with the characters from the beginning. But you know: Cartoon Network doesn't believe in slow growing relationships and time consuming actual good plot, CN just wanted the show gone. So the cruniverse's time got suddenly very limited, and then went from finished to a movie that takes place in the future, to having to come up with yet another season that takes place in said future. The cruniverse would've totally done a better job had they been allowed to actually do the story that they wanted to do in the first place. I could see Steven and Connie becoming a thing, especially around the Stevonnie episodes, you can really see that they are attracted to eachother to some degree, but their relationship was rushed. TL;DR: I blame rushed series and rushed relationship on Cartoon Network and their random cancel culture

[@majesticmo5048]

@@trypotherapy7478 there are multitude of slow growing relationships in CN's history tho

[@kou7191]

@@RainyStast I... have to agree. Steven and Connie had an, uh, ambiguous relationship, so to speak - they CLEARLY cared for each other greatly so it was obvious they're "together" but had none of the sexual tension shenanigans most ships do (Steven proposing can be seen as a subversion, since he was being clingy rather than in love), so being an explicit couple felt kinda forced in a way.

[@Jeorshy]

If I’m being honest, I used to think shippers were really weird and really had not much value to a fandom, but now I’m beginning to understand something. Shippers have a lot of awareness when it comes to character chemistry, which is something that I have difficulty understanding myself. Thanks for the video

[@Dave102693]

I still think that most people over focusing on romance is what makes shipping weird…and annoying. A show without a shipping fandom is a DOA project. Troll Hunters is the best example of it. There’s like almost no shipping around the series. Lol It ended up dying quietly in the background.

[@asandax6]

@@Dave102693 Why are you mad at other People's interests. If they want to ship let them ship. The show can sink whatever ships they want. This is life not everything can go your way and that's ok.

[@iknowwhatyouare102]

@@Dave102693 Shows sink and die eventually anyways. Just let people do what they want

[@emch2vy]

this is somewhat heartening to read. I'm glad you were able to grow your awareness

[@Mulukan57]

@@Dave102693 rise of the TMNT, Ben 10 (in every version), Transformers (not that I'm aware of) has no romance shipping whatsoever too.

[@mofthemoth5755]

Hot take: Tomco was better and had more chemistry than Starco during season 4-

[@fureall7232]

I AGREE. Star and Marco should’ve been besties or PLATONIC soulmates

[@remwifeyy]

YEAH

[@TripleM24]

This aint even a hot take tbh

[@blizyon30fps86]

That’s a popular take, I don’t even ship that yet I can agree that it would have been written better than Starco 100%

[@ultimatebishoujo29]

It’s so true

[@FunnyFany]

This is painful because i liked Starco from the beginning. The writers had struck friends-to-lovers fuel GOLD with their dynamic. It could've been great. And then they managed to mess it up in the worst ways possible. IT WOULD'VE BEEN SO EASY TO NOT RUIN IT HOW DID THEY EVEN ACCOMPLISH THAT

[@MrAwsomenoob]

I may have shipped starco but what happened between tom and star was unforgivable. An inspiring story about self reflection and improvement and a legitimate second chance with the girl he liked was thrown away for Starco. Same with Jackie and Marco. Marco got to know Jackie as a person and not the object of his desire. It was an adorable teenage love story. That got ruined because " muh blood moon" but hey, at least Jackie is gay (bi?) now. Also you gotta love that "gay out of nowhere" trope, inclusivity am I right?

[@mylittledota4653]

That thing with Tom is super believable. He have grown as a person, yes, he have become dare I say "likable". Yet he lost the girl he loved. Isn't it just like IRL? Life sucks, teens are dumb, teens in love are square dumb. Most of StarCo criticism I see is that everything else is thrown away, yet it is the most natural thing to happen. Again, I'm reffering to real life. Shippers are too much often live in a bubble, thinking only in media terms, and forgetting that again - people are dumb. It is only natural that two ppl that had feelings for each other couldn't move on and end up hurting other people

[@lori0747]

@@mylittledota4653 I understand what you are saing, but from what I understand the critic was not that It was unrealistic, but that it worsened the plot and the character relationship, wich tend to be more important than realism.

[@JittFrom305]

They did Jackie dirty smh

[@eno9482]

can we stop with this whole "object of desire" thing it doesnt make sense

[@theultimatehomiegsenior3058]

@@mylittledota4653 it's realistic for the protagonist to die on episode 1 but that doesn't make a very good story

[@jackhummer8344]

You know, looking back at how Star vs handled its shipping makes me even more grateful for how The Owl House handled Lumity. Unlike Starco, we actually get to see the relationship between Amity and Luz while they're dating. No red herring love interests, no padding to keep them from getting together, no last minute hook-ups. EDIT: Woah, I was not expecting so many likes or replies...

[@ThatGFFAN]

Plus it actually may even help move the plot going on and play a factor in how the story ends.

[@oriana1125]

@@ThatGFFAN what I like about it is that the show didn't just focus on that after they started dating, yeah they started being more intimate with each other but it wasn't anything like "now our show is only about this relationship. Also lesbian and bi representation is always welcome when it's done correctly

[@im.claire]

So true!! I love the owl house and lumity ❤️

[@simplyepic3258]

Yep, they decided they wouldn’t have long term relationship drama, and it paid off. Not only is there not canonical relationship roulette, but there also aren’t really any competing fan ships. Star vs had way too many fan ships and that became a problem too outside of the canonical ships. Marco was shipped with pretty much every person he ever interacted with over the course of the show. The Owl House doesn’t really have any of that going on.

[@nicoleflores2054]

Lumity seems also have what Starco didn't have, character development, Luz and Amity are growing as people about their problems and insecurities together, which the more they work towards each other, the more chemistry they had.

[@RandoSando.]

"Has shipping ever ruined a show?" Me: *remembers when klance shippers threatened the studio that makes vld to make klance canon or else they'll release spoilers illegally taken during a tour* Edit: in response to the threats, the studio decided to make none of the popular ships canon, rushed the last two seasons intentionally, killed off a main character, threw character arcs and development out of the window, basically killed the show with an awful ending because they were sick of the fans. All because some toxic fans wanted a ship canon and thought they were hot shit.

[@onetrickponysona2613]

remembers glee

[@Dave102693]

Season 4 and 5 of She Ra.

[@Hanmacx]

Wasn't the Author of My Hero academia harassed to make the main characters gay?

[@camoking3609]

This is why shippers scare me

[@scarletsage6267]

@@Hanmacx While he did say he was thinking about it for a while but the shippers did do threats and stuff to make Deku x Bakugou,Kirishima X Bakugou to happen

[@parasitone0814]

I discovered your channel because of this video, and it totally feels like "relationship decadence" the show, and I love this format and how funny it is to watch

[@nataliawashington872]

Let’s be honest Tom was the better choice his redemption was out of this world, and Eclipsa and Globgor are the best couple in the series and we should all aspire to have a healthy relationship like theirs-Globgor became a vegetarian for Eclipsa, and refused to free until Mewnie was ready to accept him completely because he knew if he was let out too early it’d cause trouble for Eclipsa and Meteora. Cause of Starco: Star sabotaged their date out of jealousy, Marco became a bad bf to Jackie (who was so chill about it), Star cheated on Tom with Marco and then got angry at Tom for finding out and confiding in his mother the only person he had to talk too and what’s worse is she wasn’t even planning on telling him about it, they destroyed the magic and while running to each other completely ignored the chaos that was happening around them after the magic worlds and earth fused, conjoined, -whatever it’s called-together. Starco was so selfish and only cared for each other-like Tom wasn’t even mad about the kiss and even told Marco he can date Star after they broke up-like…..WHAT?! That just shows who’s the better man

[@cassander6866]

Fair enough.

[@reemalfarhan2120]

i agree with you completely

[@flx_res]

@@kokopium1530 Oh man, no. Star wasn't so bad when she started a relationship with Tom on season 3, *they really deserved each other.* Of course it only lasted for a few episodes, so sad, but Star was a good match for Tom *back then* , until they turned her into a bad character. I was hoping she wasn't a lost cause, for the sake of the show (since she was the protagonist) but unfortunately she was. But saying Star was never there for Tom is a lie, she actually wanted to help Tom during his demoncisms and when she realized she couldn't she didn't leave him alone and hugged him, and she saved Tom from drowning in the lava lake. Star was truly a nice girl to Tom before unlike Janna was in the few moments they shared together on season 4, Janna only used Tom to blast a bird and never listened to his opinion. Janna hardly ever cared about other people's feelings. I don't see Janna being *'that best that Tom deserves'* because she's mean. Tom deserves a kind person who understands him, not a girl who likes creepy stuff and just because of that Tom should date her, or just because they look cute together (they don't in my opinion, but okay *everyone has their own preferences* ). For me *Marco was also a good option for Tom*

[@flx_res]

@@kokopium1530 Star wasn't the reason why Tom made his demoncism, Tom wanted to change to be a better prince (not for Star, *for his kingdom)* he also told Star he didn't invite her. And what I said about Janna is only based on what we all watched in the CANON episodes, not fanarts or fanfics. *Janna is not good for Tom,* Star and Marco neither, but at least they shared special moments and *had good chemistry with Tom.* Janna could have had it as well but THE SHOW *never* showed Jantom as a good couple, not even as a good duo (it's a shame bc Janna and Tom could have been great *friends)* the fact that fanarts do it (almost) doesn't count, at least *not as much as Tomco and Tomstar do* But okay *ship whatever you want,* just stop throwing shit at Star, we all know how bad character she became. *But wishing she was a better girl doesn't hurt anyone.* And you wishing Jantom not being a crack ship doesn't hurt me either so... do as you please! And let us dream

[@sebastiansuazo2734]

Tom was never the better choice

[@arellajardin8188]

The Blood Moon is worse than that. The writers, who are a married couple who self insert themselves as Star and Marco, btw. They thought being soul bound was romantic. And then the fanbase pointed out it was non-consensual. That very nasty thing Tom was trying to do to force Star to be with him? It’s still horrible if it happens by accident with another boy! So they hastily undid the Blood Moon, and then said it didn’t even matter. Because Star and Marco were the writers, and they had to be together. No matter how badly they no longer work by season 4. Oh, and it’s no secret that they had no real plans for the plot after Battle for Mewni. It was only towards the end of season 2 they realized they would get more after their Battle for Mewni special. They pretty much made up the rest of the series on the fly, increasingly pumping out scripts mere moments before they had to go into production. Starco was supposed to happen at the end of that special. It made sense at that point. But heaven forbid two lead characters in a kids show date until the last possible second (Dragon Prince, your beautiful for not screwing around with that crap).

[@softlymeowgical7609]

Fellow TDP fan and former Star vs. fan here! I only watched Star vs. up until the sleepover episode, fell off the series thanks to a cable network switch along with We Bare Bears and Regular Show. It wasn't until several months after the series finale that I remembered Star vs was a thing and learnt just how horribly it turned out. Really did dodge a massive bullet there. Also, Rayllum is just awesome.

[@Dave102693]

Yeah, and the Battle for Mewni wasn’t even all that good to begin with. It was mediocre in hindsight.

[@DC_let_the_Waynes_be_happy]

I had no idea of this,this is so wrong and creepy, I can't believe they really thought the soul bond thing was not only okay but also romantic,wtf

[@arellajardin8188]

@@DC_let_the_Waynes_be_happy Eh, a lot of people buy into that whole “soulmates” thing, they just tried to make it literal. But their execution was atrocious. But I’m not mad at them for that, it’s one of those things you might not notice until you step back and think about it. Or, have a fanbase point it out. I’m mostly mad about how they ended it, saying the Blood Moon didn’t even matter. When it very clearly influenced them.

[@hopsymopsy8352]

@@DC_let_the_Waynes_be_happy I think honestly the writers got too close to the story being their own perceived relationship that they didn't think about the actual values they were depicting. Maybe if they REALLY wanted this soul thing to happen they could have done a "They're destined to be together because their souls always find each other" Like reincarnation situation and then they could have maybe done a fun arc where they meet past lives or whatnot. They seem like they were so caught up in making it inevitable that they didn't bother to make it make sense and wanted a forced marriage of sorts to be like how theyre married irl yet didn't know how to organically produce a marraige/soul bonded situation

[@Ballerinamonet]

Tom and Marco had more chemistry than any other ship in this show

[@arellajardin8188]

Legit. After the way Star treated everyone in season 4, and Kellco just… stopped. I looked at who was left, and Tomco felt like the most natural, sincere pairing.

[@jamalhartley5863]

Like that relationship had a whole arc to be honest! It was seen even in the first season when Tom made an effort to befriend Marco and they briefly got along great.

[@mirkohoble]

@@arellajardin8188 agreed, but Starco... just no.

[@cuppat7309]

Laughs in 'Ponyhead & Marco'

[@MeltingMellons]

@@cuppat7309 😳

[@The-Random-Hamlet]

I was initially into StarCo, but then Marco x Hekapoo happened and kind of wished that had been ending relationship for Marco. They balanced each other out in an interesting way and they both have that being both young and old at the same time thing going on.

[@gregjayonnaise8314]

Personally, I feel that the narrative of the show treats Tom as if he’s worse than he actually is. Like, we’re supposed to believe that Tom’s anger issues and controlling behavior are the reason why he and Star broke up the first time, and while that definitely was a big part of the problem (and I’m not excusing him), I also find that Star’s biggest flaw is that she acts without thinking of how her actions affect those around her and she can be VERY dismissive of others negative feelings. She gives off “toxic positivity” vibes, where other people aren’t allowed to be angry or sad because of her actions, which, to me, is just as toxic as Tom’s anger problems. It feels like a relationship between the two would be nothing but a cycle of Tom ordering Star around, Star doing something that aggravates Tom, Tom eventually losing his shit, her getting mad that he’s mad at her, and then rinse and repeat until they break up. It’s not Star’s fault that Tom has anger issues, and it’s Tom’s responsibility to manage his own emotions, but Star is also very lackadaisical and shirks off how she affects people’s feelings and prioritizes her own fun and wants. Part of me feels that the last two seasons, aside from bad writing, revealed several of Star’s own flaws that could have been there since the beginning. The worst part is that Tom actively TRIES to change his behavior and goes through the development to be a better person, because he genuinely isn’t an evil person, just bad at managing his own feelings (and the fact that he’s possessed). Then there’s the fact that when they get together again, the relationship is unhealthy but in the opposite direction; now it’s like Star is the ringleader and Tom is accommodating her every whim even against his own comfort. Star has even less reason to consult Tom on anything because he rarely speaks up, and Tom lets her steamroll him because he’s afraid that if he relapsed and gets angry, it’ll drive her away. Tom now has to bottle his own feelings in the same way Star did when they dated originally. The scene where Tom tells Star that he knew about her and Marco (his best friend, to make things even worse) kissing is infuriating because SHE’S angry at HIM for not telling her he knew that she cheated? (Which takes some REAL mental gymnastics on her part since she could have, you know, told him herself, or not do it in the first place?) The scene is so bizarre because this is the one time where, if Tom got legitimately angry, he’d be wholly justified, anger issues be damned. Marco and Star deserve each other, and Tom needs better friends.

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

The reason why the narrative treats Tom so horribly is because Daron Nefcy (the creator of SVTFOE) based Tom on all of her ex-boyfriends.

[@gregjayonnaise8314]

@@kittykittybangbang9367 That’s interesting. Personally, I don’t like to make assumptions on a creator based on the themes of their work. I think that a lot of the issues with how Tom is handled can be pointed back to the show’s writing, not really Nefcy herself; the show needs Star and Marco to be the heroes, but doesn’t really know how to deal with them if they do something really wrong, and it ends up pinning the blame of a certain action on the opposing party. Season 1 Tom was probably based on Nefcy’s exes, but I do think that his character development is kind of disconnected from that. Judging by the fact that Tom does get redeemed and not simply demonized to hell and back I don’t think he’s really a 1 for 1 allegory on her past boyfriends. Not to mention that there is often multiple writers on a show, which means that collaboration could have been rushed with behind the scenes problems. I think the narrative has this weird idea that because Tom used to be a real jerk to Star and Marco that it means she and Marco have free range to treat him like dirt when he’s improved as a person, like that makes it even?? IDEK

[@0iqgremlin414]

I honestly think instead of focusing on ships they really should've focused on Star's behavior and have her actually learn instead of just getting what she wants after having a sad(tm) moment

[@CyanideOwl]

Tom was the best and the most real character later on...

[@kitty3999]

Gotta say, I agree with you about Star's toxic positivity vibes, which I thought was going to be more focal point where she had to realised that people being mad at her was normal, if she was doing something stupid. It's a very normal Princess trait that usually develops in stories. But it didn't really happen here. Heck, it even happened between her and Marco at the end of Season 1, before he gets taken by Toffee's new gang. That lil scene, where Star was trying to get some sandwich, and Marco pulled her out of danger; which she got angry at him about it, saying something along the lines of 'it makes me wonder why we're even friends' after he got angry she rather die trying to get some 'unique' food? I've not heard many mention this scene, probably due to it being before the plot, but I felt like it should have been mentioned again, because that was really hurtful, and Marco and Star never had time to sit down and talk about that. It's just a shame how most character's turned out, Marco was my fav going in, but he'd gone the wrong path, and now my own fav would be Tom. He's character growth was perfect, but was only hurting himself more by being with Star again.

[@OgichiGame]

What's weird is multiple other ships in the show were shown to be much healthier and had real chemistry, but they couldn't put that same effort into starco

[@hilbertharmonia931]

I swear, Janna and Star gave me healthier vibes than Starco and the only thing I have about them are a few episodes and some Official Art made by the creator. At the same time I think that the green haired girl and Marco and Tomco are slightly better than Starco, however Marco and Star both ended up with a bad behavior so I both like the Tomco Ship but I also think that Tom deserve better so I don't even know what to think about them. Star I think that could have definitely be better of with Janna (I think it was her name I can't never seem to remember it) because Janna is funny, carefree but also affectionate and maybe she could have be helpful to Star improvement/growth in my opinion.

[@OgichiGame]

@@hilbertharmonia931 I thought Jackie a mark had good chemistry on screen. Same with him and Kelly for what little we got. It felt pretty natural, whereas starco was hamfisted hard.

[@nicoleflores2054]

@@hilbertharmonia931 Jackie and Star sounds really cute ngl

[@hilbertharmonia931]

@@OgichiGame Yeah, I wanted to write Janna but wrote Jackie instead because I didn't remembered her name and they both start with J XD

[@hilbertharmonia931]

@@nicoleflores2054 Yeah, that sound really cute now that I think about it. I realized later that I wrote the wrong name because I didn't remembered it and because they both have the J as start for the name. I meant Janna but Star and Jackie would be interesting too.

[@Khadharphak]

The irony is that literally any other character would've been a better pairing with Marco than Star. Jackie, Kelly, Janna, Tom, Hekapoo, Moon, Eclipsa, Spider With a Top Hat, three gnomes in a trenchcoat, a bag of crab apples, the colour red... For me, I always thought the Harem route was the only right option for Marco.

[@brianvasquez7053]

Marco: becomes harem protagonist Me: YES

[@gummidon1618]

I’m gonna be honest that would have been more interesting then the actual show

[@brianvasquez7053]

@@gummidon1618 has there ever been an American animated show that the mc has a harem?

[@NoTraceOfSense]

So in other words… _It’s time to take a trip to Kuoh._

[@ultravioletentertainment7332]

his an anime protagonist

[@pankreas2195]

I was in the starco fandom on tumblr and let me tell you it was the wildest fandom I've ever been a part of (and I'm in the Miraculous fandom) Edit: I was also a Tomco and a Jarco shipper lol we just shipped Marco with everyone and there was also the whole trans princess turdina subplot and I'm pretty sure there also was a Kelly and Marco ship and even Janco was a thing and there was a Starco daughter...?? seriously, it was wild. Edit 2 as I'm approaching the end of the video: I COMPLETELY FORGOT KELLCO CANONICALY HAPPENNED And yeah I agree the blood moon plot was terribly executed.

[@littledewdroplets]

What killed me about this is that EVERY other ship was more interesting than Starco. Jackie, Tom, Kelly, even Hecapu. They all had more going on for them than Star and Marco. Star and Marco never really felt like a couple, or like they were actually crushing on each other. They felt more like siblings.

[@saram404]

it was so hard for me to watch some episodes bc they've felt like fully platonic best friends that were being awkwardly forced into a romance arc.. like when your family starts shipping you and your best friend when neither of you have feelings for each other and it's kind of awkward to be around them..

[@littledewdroplets]

@@saram404 YESS omg exactly

[@kacperzina8989]

@@saram404 hooly fuuuck i had an issue like this where a friend of mine was shipping me and my best friend EVEN THO NEITHER OF US WERE GAY and it was suuuper uncomfortable

[@cyanyde4950]

@@saram404 the audacity of how true and accurate this is, this sort of direction they took over just let them be friends is why I never got around to finishing the series, it just kept spiraling into that awkward area that killed the vibes of the show or any real engagement to it.

[@Merilirem]

The only time i felt like Star and Marco made sense was when i was shipping them both with someone like Jackie.

[@XxStrawberryxJellyxX]

Also, why does hardly anyone talk about his relationship with Hekapoo? Or the existential crisis that is him living half of a lifetime before being turned back into a child physically? Starco should have been crushed by the fact he was mentally like twice times her age, even if he became a hormonal teen biologically again.

[@hunterkoons2008]

Yeah the fact that he's basically in his mid 30s made any relationship he had afterwards super creepy.

[@AvatarWindy]

EXACTLY. As someone else in the comments said, I wish they had forcused more on the lore.

[@fieldofstars3230]

@@hunterkoons2008 like even with someone around his (mental) age, it would be weird. because of his physical body.

[@remyhavoc4463]

I like to think it's kinda like a dream? Or something Like, his brain turns back to normal and only bits of his experience in that dimension remained in him So he pretty much dreamed decades for about 20 minutes Idk, I'm not a scientist, something like that XD They should've just paired him with Hekapoo. The age gap doesn't look to big (appearance wise and even personality wise) so idk why Hekapoo was even a thing or why she falls for Marco's deep voice if she's just gonna fucking die at the end with their skulls being used as a fucking "wholesome" gag

[@shroomey6686]

@@remyhavoc4463 hekapoo is an adult and marco is biologically still a teen, there might be controversies around disney supporting women "commiting" pdophilia

[@briannapicanco6337]

What ruined the show for me wasn't starco, it was how they did it. They kept doing this stupid back and forth thing with Star realizing she likes Marco but Marco liking somone else and Marco liking Star but Star likes someone else. They also made it too big of a part of the show and did the whole 'blood moon ball' thing too early. They also made the StarTom relashonship come out of nowhere

[@Billythekid73192]

Yeah I think a lot of people forget Marco was based on the creators husband and star is based on her so she was obviously going to have them end up together the issue was she failed at doing it right friends can fall in love in stories its just how it happens that matters but I feel they tried to milk it too much like a lot of anime and I hated it even though I was for it in the beginning

[@briannapicanco6337]

@@Billythekid73192 I also think they overhyped the blood moon curse considering how easy it seemed for them to break it. I was expecting them to make a season final be about it, instead it was solved in 1 or 2 episodes (I can't remember)

[@burnttoast1114]

I agree so much! I ship them, but I wasn’t satisfied with how they handled it. They could’ve done a great job, but ruined it a little bit for me

[@screaming_cat_]

I did not expect to get a video about this show on my recommended. Was absolute fire. This was one of my top 5 childhood shows.

[@cuernosbeste]

I HATE how they completely destroyed this show and ignored the actual story just for a ship. It really went downhill after season 1 and I never say that about any show.

[@clashman7564]

Starco. Needs. To. Be. Retconned.

[@str4wb3rrypup]

Hey , so uhm , I actually really liked the fact that Star had a crush on Marco . Because , that happens a lot in real life , people falling in love with their bestfriend . What I wish could’ve happened was Star confessing her and Marco saying he doesn’t feel the same , then it would progress the with Star getting over her feelings ( realizing that it would never work out , and just appreciate her friendship with him ) With star getting back together with Tom ( where it’s easy to understand ) and Marco get together with his crush To me , that would’ve been better

[@maxwellmybeloved]

YEAAH I AGREE !! Tom and star seemed to have more chemistry and Starco just seems so forced and fast-pacing And ngl Marco's crush is pretty cool too, I honestly wished she was in the main cast :(

[@for.you.and.iheart4983]

No offense, but for being honnest this is the first cartoon I see you americans ever give a lot of relevance to a character of mexican origin, being next to the hero character, who is Star, and being in the USA instead of other shows like Mucha Lucha and El Tigre, when you people are usually so racist against mexicans in your country, which is your posture to mexicans in general? what percent of people of your country thinks of mexican influence as positive or negative, depending of the states you live in?

[@vail9393]

@@for.you.and.iheart4983 what the hell does this comment have to do with mexicans? its just about ships in a cartoon.go post that reply somewhere else that isn’t a completely harmless comment, your not even sure they’re american.

[@for.you.and.iheart4983]

@@vail9393 sorry if I was very hard with my message, but I'm actually mexican born in the states, pretty much like Marco, and I'm also a fan of the actor Alexander Gould who gave voice to Bambi in Bambi 2 (one of my favorite Disney movies), but then later he had a larger role in the series Weeds, where he performs a character who is racist towards mexicans, which upsets me. Just look for a video on KZbin: Shane Fucking Botwin, and you'll see his racist persona.

[@OrionDawn15]

@@for.you.and.iheart4983 Forgive the tangent but... First what does this have to do with the show? And second, not everyone in America and especially not the majority(unless you were way down south or something maybe) are racist or prejudiced against other people, hell racism exists everywhere which I'm sure you know and it's not like racists are the only ones writing and making shows and stuff, we got mixed ethnicities in here too, people of all kinds with talent... also what? A voice actor acting in a movie as a racist DOESN'T make them racist, a role is a role, a character is just a character and they have absolutely no impact on who they are in real life, do you think a woman who plays an evil witch queen in some half-assed, low-budget fake anime indie show is REALLY an evil witch queen? Do you think the dude who plays Tony Stark in the avengers movies is really a rich guy with high-tech suits of armor at his beck and call and is really best friends with a bunch of super-powered people? Not to be mean or anything, but are you a child? Playing a persona in a show, movie or videogame doesn't mean you REALLY are like that, people who play good people in media could be bad in real life and people who play bad people in media could be good people in real life, like are you really serious about this? This isn't some awful joke? You really think a guy who got hired to play a racist man in a show is actually a racist as if a character in media determines who you really are in real life?

[@evanluck1229]

This makes Mordecai's relationship troubles seem healthy.

[@RandomSkyeRoses]

Mordecai had anxiety and low self confidence. He also felt bad when he messed up in relationships. Star comes across as a manipulative brat who plays games with people

[@evanluck1229]

@Luke Jameson I can definitely agree with that. It's definitely a mature and realistic way of moving on, with downfalls, repressed feelings and trying to still be friends. While Mordecai's relationships were unhealthy, I'd say it was handled a million times better

[@nicoleflores2054]

his relationships were pretty unhealthy but at least it didn't result with bad writing but actual real consequences about Mordecai's actions and mistakes, something that this series didn't do well.

[@grant9589]

I laughed when I read that comment, because it's so true.

[@Kumorini]

@@evanluck1229 yeah, people in the cast aren't always supposed to end up together, I feel like CJ was unnecessary though because it just felt like she was used for relationship drama then tossed away.

[@TheMenacingMenace]

Even when I was younger I figured Marco's relationships were weird. This magnifies it.

[@dorangenut]

I used to ship Starco (not necessarily romantic) so much during the 1st season. I just loved their dynamic. But when the show started to force them together, it just felt bland and uninteresting. Forced ships are one of the most annoying things for me, and I stopped watching SVTFOE because of that.

[@monkeydui7241]

I think it was the whole point from the beginning I don’t think it was forced

[@roxxi3089]

@@monkeydui7241 Even IF it was the point from the beginning, the way they handled it still felt forced xD The fact that many (very) people felt that it was forced says a lot.

[@monkeydui7241]

@@roxxi3089 Had to do it someway

[@alli8373]

The show was about star growing up and responsibilities and all that but a part of growing up is having crushes and it felt forced because star and marco weren't sure about their feelings

[@bIurry999]

@@roxxi3089 well i actually liked the idea of star and marco🤷🏾‍♂️

[@MiguelDCristo]

What I expected of the ending of SVTFOE: -Final lore development and universe/mewni queens backstory -Some gud angst moments -Ships that are coherent to character development beyond the main characters -Epic final battle -A necessary character death for the fate of the universe -True peace between all other races and monsters What I got: -Starco(+ Premium extra edition) -Non exiting final battle -Profetic tendrum -Unnecessary sacrificies -Mass genocide of magical dependent creatures -DRAMA (kindaof) -Mass human panic after worlds being cleaved -Last main characters words were HEY. No offense to Daron Nefcy, but she could have worked out a way better ending in my honest opnion.

[@ssarithkeesee5106]

Yea they really did the villains/plot dirty.

[@crazydragy4233]

Nah, any author concerned with actually writing something good would be embarrassed with that. None offence will be taken for that mess though

[@kitbrant8450]

the ending couldn't be helped, they had to wrap up everything so quickly because of disney cancelling their next season

[@for.you.and.iheart4983]

No offense, but for being honnest this is the first cartoon I see you americans ever give a lot of relevance to a character of mexican origin, being next to the hero character, who is Star, and being in the USA instead of other shows like Mucha Lucha and El Tigre, when you people are usually so racist against mexicans in your country, which is your posture to mexicans in general? what percent of people of your country thinks of mexican influence as positive or negative, depending of the states you live in?

[@frauleinzuckerguss1906]

@@kitbrant8450 people have figured out through the crew's social media presences that they knew about the cancelation for a while during production of s4, so them just screwing around with so many Filler episodes instead of trying to wrap anything up or build something up properly is definitely not the fault of executive meddling.

[@dabudgie5632]

I really don't get why so many people hated pony head. She was like one of the only characters who didn't have bad romance with someone. Also she was such a mood

[@user-jb7tq7ko7e]

Her voice was annoying.

[@dreamdemon6508]

The voice

[@ClickMyProfile_Unknown0human]

Well I dislike those people say bad thing to her. I like her personality toward star.

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

@@user-jb7tq7ko7e plus, she was kinda like the YASSS Queen type

[@ofekma12345]

she was loud, obnoxious and selfish

[@marinadamn5813]

I was ALL for Star and Marco. But they kept throwing them into other relationships. Marco became such an idiot, that I felt Star and Tom should be a thing. I loved Tom and how much he really tried for Star and I wanted her to push for it too. You have Marco throwing away so many wonderful girls, having him whore himself around. It just made it exhausting and me not wanting him to be with anyone at that point. I felt bad for Star. It should have been all or nothing for the Ship, but they just sank it like the Titanic before they decided to throw it a patched up life boat thinking it could still float.

[@TripleM24]

"In Season 1 they felt like partners in crime. In Season 4 it felt like they were doing crime" LMAO that is the best line to describe the feeling of watching them unfold.

[@racheal4186]

I stopped watching the series after Star confessed to Marco infront of everyone, right before she was about to leave whilst he was still dating Jackie. My respect for her went down the drain and so did my liking for the show

[@opsoo2229]

It was pretty cringe there

[@IN-tm8mw]

You know what? i lost respect for her too but kept watching hoping Marco would say the classic anime line: "Sorry but i don't feel that way about you." and walk off. but then he became a sad poser after leaving Jackie. i was done. then i jumped back in and started to see how they was saying the monsters aren't evil, they're victims of discrimination. Then i though to myself, what about all that time they attacked the kingdom trying to get the wand? made me rewatch stuff to see if i missed something and im still not sure.

[@racheal4186]

@@IN-tm8mw He should had done that, she crossed a line that she shouldn’t had. I get she had feelings for him, but at least respect his girl. Like did she have to publicly embarrass the both of them no, and did she still walk away the ‘victim’ of the situation, yes. 😐

[@opsoo2229]

@lightslashglobal rinnegan cringe svtfoe fan alert

[@opsoo2229]

@lightslashglobal rinnegan i gurantee you did not understand a single word or criticism in this video

[@abin6909]

People ship protagonists with characters that slaughtered their entire family and humped their corpses, I don't even care anymore. But what's worse than toxic shippers are writers that resets an entire character's development just to please the majority.

[@boobeethecurious]

You make a good point but I’m hyper focused on the first line. Its too funny, damn it.

[@Dave102693]

Catra killed Glimmer’s mother, and she’s rewarded with Adora’s hand and Glimmer’s friendship. 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@Urmywonderwall07]

I immediately thought of Chrollo x Kurapika 💀

[@galacticsector3195]

Yeah like wtf some people ship Harry Potter and Voldemort, Ahsoka and Maul and probs Red Hood and Joker like why

[@Rey_Palpatine]

One of the worst things that can kill a series is when the writers completely give up on any character/plot development and just try to appease shippers. Most of the time, because the writers throw everything under the bus to make the "popular" ship happen, the characters being shipped end up looking like assholes and the other characters who get screwed over end up being way more relatable

[@Jell000]

4:38 “Giving us -“ *Olive Garden’s best pasta bowl!* That was hilarious universe, thx for that one