That Time Disney Hooked up a Grown man and a Teenager: Marco's Real Age

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[@veejump7258]

Marco Diaz being a teenager with 30 years of experience is quite literally what employers are looking for.

[@Youareaidiot]

lmao right

[@ziasteele9332]

😂😂😂

[@poproszealex6852]

pov: neighbours kid in china

[@xd._.28234]

😂

[@boardcertifiable]

Omg, too true....😢

[@Shuffles_Art]

It’s kinda funny how the voice actor kinda knew how to fix the problem, but then the writers wanted to dig their grave even deeper 💀

[@DustyStarrs]

literally lol

[@jadeshepherd8627]

what did the voice actor say about maybe fixing it?

[@Shuffles_Art]

@@jadeshepherd8627 pretty sure they mentioned it in the video somewhere

[@TwentySeventhLetter]

@@jadeshepherd8627 They're talking about the live stream where the VA, in-character as Marco, says he "doesn't remember what happened" in the ab dimension

[@Haphu15]

@@jadeshepherd8627 yeah, the voice actor explained that marco doesnt remember anything of those 15 years he spend in another dimension but that saving grace was destroyed when the writer had marco state that he remembers stuff during those 15 years and the characters mentioning his adult age many times in future episodes so no is hard to defend it

[@mr.critical5523]

"It's like the show never thought through the implications of this" Sums up the show rather well honestly.

[@SandwitchZebra]

The entire damn finale is just this sentence.

[@AChanceOfReign]

The fact that Marco is basically a lab rat for the writers is infuriating. Lets not forget the moment when he used the Butterfly Family's magic wand and was never brought up ever again! I love it when a main character is treated as a Schrodinger's Cat of fanfic writing.

[@greywarden5513]

…but it was, it’s revealed during the creation of the wand (also with information from lore books) The usage of the wand is based on exposure to magic, which by that time he was drenched in it

[@jlwiseman98]

@Grey Warden when marco first got the wand and cheekmarks, he had never been to the magic dimension at all yet. The episode itself was the first episode the dimension was even introduced and it was focused on star alone finding it. Not to mention it was shown in season one ludo and lobster claws could use the wand without ever going to the dimension either.

[@iammask1073]

Yeah when Marco got the cheekmarks I thought it was an interesting mystery that was going to be revealed at some point as apparently the marks and wand was the same as one of the previous Queen of the kingdom. But it never went anywhere and was a big disappointment to me.

[@fireninetails]

@@iammask1073 Considering how they responded to "How pony head survived magic destruction?" i'm glad that they didn't answer to this.

[@davidumann6707]

The thing that weirds me out is that Marco was willingly spending 16 years away from his loved ones. For all he knew, his parents could have been worried sick, having no idea where he is.

[@Fitzftw7]

In fairness, I don’t think Marco did that willingly. Hekapoo trapped him.

[@vm141789]

@@Fitzftw7 Hekapoo offered Marco a portal home at the beginning of the challenge.

[@vixshire3672]

@@vm141789 Counter point He probably didn’t expect it to take 16+ years

[@gregvs.theworld451]

@@vixshire3672 Still, you'd think eventually he'd stop and at least regroup with Star so they could figure out how to get the scissors back together before spending 16 years on a goose chase.

[@amadeusazazel9047]

@@vixshire3672 counter-counterpoint: you don’t exactly just lose track of *sixteen years.* At some point Marco really should’ve stopped and thought - “Hey, I’ve been away from like, a few weeks/months, maybe I should do something about that”

[@googamp32]

It's fascinating to see how SVTFOE started out as a funny deconstruction of magical girl tropes, but quickly devolved into a directionless slog that had no idea what it wanted to do with itself.

[@batgh0ul]

Yeah you're right. I think that's what happens when shows that try to appeal to the fandom so much that they change directions completely, which isn't even the whole reason it turned sour here. But that's why I always have a lot of anxiety when shows I like get new seasons, specifically the ones with big fandoms, cause I fear its gonna be ruined to appeal to the fandom. I worried a lot about She-ra, I think it wrapped up perfectly but I was so ready for it season 5 to be awful. Rn I'm worrying about Good Omens S2, since the creator said it's gonna be almost completely different from S1. yay

[@AverageInternetButterfly]

Hopefully if this show gets a continuation movie, it'll focus on being what seasons 1 and 2 were but more satirical and comedic with jokes that poke fun at events in the show like the shipping and tonal whiplash. Basically a soft reboot. And that's coming from someone who mostly watched the first two seasons.

[@Valorian6167]

Seriously. I also love that looking at the clips from season 1 to season 4, the animation style has changed so much. I like the season one style with the thicker outlines and smoother animation. It just looks better!

[@AverageInternetButterfly]

@@Valorian6167 you're right. Even when looking into the second season where it changes art styles, it's like a Mandela effect. A somewhat different show starts, but then by the last two seasons, it becomes a COMPLETELY different show. Both tonally and visually.

[@dededefran8910]

Ironically, it ended up playing into the same awful pitfalls that a lot of magical girl shows fell into lol

[@wakkaseta8351]

Marco honestly got put into a lose-lose situation. If he's shipped with characters his physical age, he's considered problematic. If he's shipped with characters his mental age, the other character'll be considered problematic. He's basically not allowed to have romance anymore lest someone clutch their pearls.

[@greywarden5513]

A lot of it seems to stem from people wanting to cherry pick who he ends up with (almost never star, even though that had been endgame from jump) Rarely hear them bring that same energy for Jarco or Kellyco even though it should be the same issue.

[@jlwiseman98]

@@greywarden5513 well star is meant to be the endgame supposedly, and was the most popular ship in the fandom, so obviously thats going to be more of a main focus. Even if the same logic would apply, the point here is the writers who are supposed to know these things and supposibly knew their endgame, never saw this as an issue despite showing adult marco and star next to each other on multiple occasions. If starco is the planned endgame here, it's way more unusual they kept this in and never saw any red flags in it morso then ships that weren't endgame.

[@avivastudios2311]

😁

[@endermarcuz3053]

I mean Tom is a demon built on billions of souls of different ages so age doesn't matter there so Tomco is truly the only available

[@uhm-ff8xk]

good

[@Z.O.M.G]

this is the equivalent of ''don't worry she is a 1000 year old dragon''

[@CorvCor]

My exact thought process

[@MaskeyKamenRider]

Wouldn't it be the opposite? i mean, in anime is usually ''Hey, it doesn't matter her mental age, the fact is that her BODY is that of a child'' While in this situation is ''Hey, his body being that of a teenager doesn't matter, his MIND is 30'' they are even opposites on who's the pedo in the situation, in anime the Character with a difference in mental and physical age is the ''victim'' While in SVTFOE the character with a difference in mental and physical age is the ''abuser'' sounds like an opposite and equivalent, same problem but with the opposite aproach.

[@rune7894]

its the exact opposite i think

[@samflood5631]

Is that a reference to both Nowi, Flayn and Sothis from the Fire Emblem Series?

[@xempororhxppyx]

Joining the chain of comments that were made today (one from 8 hrs ago, one from 23 mins ago, and now mine)

[@mesousagaby740]

Oh, and you know what would have prevented this? If Star ALSO trained for 30 years and have her mentally older as well! WE COULD ALSO HAVE HAD BUFF STAR TO BALANCE BUFF MARCO.

[@Metal-Mage]

Oh God buff Star😂

[@KaminoKatie]

That would be glorious

[@Metal-Mage]

Wouldn't that be something 😅

[@ilikefrogss]

that’s exactly what I was thinking!!

[@ShirShe27]

An idea for a drawing

[@Ghostface1998]

The shipping in this show was so bad. Justice for Tom and only eclipse and Globgor were easily the best couple but had the least amount of screentime to show off their romance.

[@ShadyRK9]

Justice For Kelly! Her And Marco Was Together For Only A Few Episodes To Later Break Up (OFF SCREEN!), Just So Starco Can Get Together!

[@Sinister_Shortee]

I made this 666 likes :)

[@smart.but.stupid]

@@ShadyRK9 Kellco was done so dirty omg, why...just WHY they tried to develop them, gave them an actual episode and then decided to break them up off-screen Yeah, and the fact that in the opening scene they kinda showed only the "relevant" characters and Kelly was there even though they IMMEDIATELY forgot about her after she supposedly broke up with Marco Season 4 is such a mess, like for real.

[@ShiningStarlight101]

it'll never not be ironic that tom was based on the exes of the creator yet near the end he becomes one of the best characters

[@FrogKanna]

Tbh Marco and Tom had more chemistry than Star and Marco lol

[@dropkickentertainment4770]

Fun fact. Marco goes back into Hecapoo's realm later in the series and reveals that not only did he learn a new language but also that he started to grow gray hair. So Marco isn't a 30+ year old man stuck in a 15 year old body. He's a 40-50+ year old man stuck in a 15 year old body. I didn't like that he was a grown man mentally trying to date teenagers to begin with, but the fact that he got even OLDER and STILL wants to date Star at the end is a little more than unsettling to me.

[@ForceInEvHorizon]

If i rememeber correctly that marco mostly forgot his time on Hackaboo dimension and returned to his 15 years old mentality

[@kingacrisius]

​@@ForceInEvHorizon This whole video was about how that part is inconsistent. Like seriously did you watch it?

[@ForceInEvHorizon]

@@kingacrisius only half of it lol

[@kingacrisius]

@@ForceInEvHorizon Based tbh

[@trappedcosmos]

You have to remember even if he has the memories and experience of those years he is deaged which means his brain is still less developed and he still has teenage hormones

[@DustyStarrs]

The annoying thing as well is that there are, as you have said, a LOT of ways they could have navigated this. He could be *technically* 30, like Aang in Avatar: the Last Airbender is *technically* 112 but doesn't have memories of that time of ageing up. And is obviously still mentally and biologically a teenager. It could also keep him being a badass as - and I just took a psychology class in high school so I'm sure there's many people in the comments section more knowledgable than me - there are different types of long-term memories that we have - explicit and implicit. Explicit memories are stuff like facts about people, places and concepts, as well as visual and audible memories of your life. Implicit memories are procedural - like how to ride a bike, play piano or fight. People who have bad memory loss have even reported to be able to do things they have no memory of learning. Like, they can't remember all the guitar lessons they took but if someone gave them a guitar and asked them to play it they could do so and just as well as if they had remembered them taking the lessons. The TL;DR of this is that it is entirely scientifically possible for Marco to be a badass at fighting but have no memories of learning how to fight. Until he goes back and starts to remember it again, ofc.

[@Tweetyeti]

And yet, they chose MESSY lmao

[@hopelesslyoptimistic8231]

I don’t get he problem here. His mind and body de-aged. What does his memories have to do with him being allowed to date a 15 year old? How do memories tie into the morality of it? The reason we don’t allow old people to date kids is because they can be manipulated but Marco also had his mind de-aged to fit a 15 year old therefore his brain is still developing too. We can’t just say something is wrong without reason. We have to look at the context. Marco is justified because he is only an adult in that dimension and his memories wouldn’t change the development of his brain as a 15 year old.

[@goeldicotton]

Overhyped lizard is the most accurate description of toffee ever

[@Rosemont104]

Overhyped and underwritten is, indeed, a terrible combo for a character.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

Just like overhyped newt is for Andrias.

[@partygamingz3332]

@@valentinkambushev4968 to be fair, andrias wasn't treated as dirty as this man, this man legit committed a disappearing act after he died, teasing the fans he will return, and doesn't even show up in the finale where all the characters show up last min Andrias wasn't given that treatment in my eyes so I wouldn't even be a competition

[@valentinkambushev4968]

@@partygamingz3332 he definitely wasn't done as dirty, not even close. I just feel like, besides stabbing Marcy he wasn't really allowed to be a villain, because they had to redeem him.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

I mean Andrias never was the true villain of Amphibia, it was always the core. Andrias also is not innocent at all and has many villain moments, The point of his character is that he's not full evil or cruel, he is bitter, lonely and manipulated by his father and the core, and has chosen villainous acts.

[@maperjack]

It just feels like such an easy solution to say he doesn't remember but he maintains the skills. They could have their cake and eat it too but they choose the weird option.

[@maria123240]

That or have that chunk of time being like a dream that he cant fully remember but can trigger memories as the plot needed.

[@Jaydee-wd7wr]

Through the power of muscle memory! Problem solved.

[@genericname2747]

Or he didn't spend 16 years there, and it was like..1 year. 2 years at most.

[@RayOfTruth]

@@maria123240 isn't that how Marco described it to Tom.

[@reoij]

@@genericname2747 I think the 16 years time skip was just to cause a momentary shock to the audience lol I'd gladly take 5 years

[@gregfreddy6691]

Also let’s not forget that hekapoo is like millions of years old and still is into Marco even when he isn’t adult Marco and is his normal self.That is also really weird.

[@Arzamol5]

Here's a thought. While Marco may have 30 years' worth of memories, that alone doesn't make you an adult. While he's in his child body, he still has the physical brain of a child. A brain that hasn't fully developed. He's not a 30-year-old trapped in a 15-year old's body, he's a 15-year-old with a few extra years of "adult" memories awkwardly jammed into a brain that can't properly make use of them.

[@rickydiscord7671]

what is over age anyway when it comes to teen and adult years? like if a 30 year dated a 18 year old. people have mix feelings for that. but a 18 year old dating a 17 year old "hell no". but the thing is 18 you JUST started being a adult and 21 is when you are a full grown adult. yeah "you old enough to know better" 26 year olds banging 14 year olds some how not much of an issue but 16 beings a 13 year old an age were you JUST started your teen year. that's going to far. laws and logic with humans don't really make sense sometimes when it comes to age difference of "banging". but dating long as there's no banging I think it fine. they only start if the younger age hit the right age 18, 21. than they do the hell they want.

[@carlinkag2525]

I like this explanation

[@carlinkag2525]

@@rickydiscord7671 There's so much wrong with some of the assumptions you just made. I don't even know where to begin so I'm just gonna say it's not my job to educate anyone on why you shouldn't date kids and leave it there.

[@rickydiscord7671]

@@carlinkag2525 you are not getting the point I bring up.

[@Shao599]

Exactly. He is still a teenager no matter what. When I saw that i didn't even think about that possibility. Seriously people like to make things awkward. And honestly that explains a lot. Let's be honest I don't want this ship to be illegal 💀

[@alexgroot2508]

I kinda feel that the whole 'Marco age thing' should've been a mini arc instead of one episode and some references. Because honestly, Marco's 30+ years mentally in an anime dimension trying to function in his old life is actually a pretty interesting thing to tackle. You can make him be more sure of himself, more capable of dealing with a world that is- by his standards- 'pretty tame'. You can milk it for interesting character dynamics too. But you can also work with the downsides, the angst, the struggles, the simple fact that he doesn't fit in anymore. And if this then culminated with Marco finding a way to lock away or remove those memories, resetting himself by choice, throw in some drab about 'wanting to grow alongside the people he loves, not run ahead of them' and done. You have a potentially 'superpowered badass side' that Marco can pull out, you had a solid little arc, and you can return to your regular program.

[@PreciseSpace]

YOURE RIGHT AND YOU SHOULD SAY IT

[@jessip8654]

"Cool ideas that were under baked" was this show's motto.

[@quartztemplar3676]

This could be a PTSD arc, a soldier returning from war who can't cope with the fact that he's home

[@saraperpetua1093]

sure

[@LostInTheInternet93]

Holy crap this would have been so much better!?!

[@Mediados]

I think they don't realize that being de-aged can be pretty traumatizing depending on your resilience.

[@Piiiiiiiiit]

I completely forgot about Marco being that old. Holy shit. As if the ending of this show wasn’t weird and problematic enough.

[@sadracklimon2999]

Basically would’ve been problematic no matter who he ended up with by your logic. Daron Nefcy already explained time flows different in both dimensions and the longer he stays out of the scissors dimension, the more it seems to him like it was all a dream. So many stupid people from twitter in this comment section god damn

[@suspiciousstar7547]

Not only is that and the relationship between Marco and Hekapoo weird, does anyone else remember that Rhombulus admitted to having a crush on Queen Moon EVEN though he knew her when she was *Star's age* when she freed Eclipsa in "Moon The Undaunted" 💀? The Magic High Comission sure is questionable...

[@Tokumastu1]

After a point Marcos felt less like a character and more like the writer's lab mouse. Between the multiple romances, the whole adult in a kids body and even the Princess Marco run it's like they were testing out ideas for other characters on him.

[@smart.but.stupid]

I agree. Also, fanservice slu-...ugh, I mean boy.

[@RadCarne]

Sounds abusive😂

[@EnderPanReigns]

The princess Marco was actually because Marco was planned to be transfem!

[@genericname2747]

​@@EnderPanReigns they're cowards for not committing to that

[@xceptionalartist6266]

@@genericname2747I don’t know if it’s cowardice or just another one of Disney’s grave-digging no-no moves

[@dspace4514]

That aside, I really wish we got more episodes of Adult Marco and see more of his episodes. If I recall, we only got another episode of him in his adult form.

[@white0thunderwhite0thunder71]

At least of him being more mature.

[@samtheflutegirl1373]

By my recollection there were several more where he was in his adult body but we never really saw him act with the same level of maturity that the first instance of adult Marco did.

[@pootismannmaikrafteano2678]

Adult marco so underrated, dmn

[@who3730]

It’s been a hot second but if I remember correctly there’s 3 episodes of buff Marco, maaaaybe 4

[@Absolute-Melody]

The fact that Marco x Hekapoo didn’t happen was one of the show’s biggest crime…

[@hanahayashi6374]

At this point, I'd say the only characters that could even qualify for Marco romantically/objectively are Hekapoo and Brunzetta. Even then, H x M is still problematic because Hekapoo-as an adult-trapped Marco's teenage self there in the first place. So it's like: "woman whose relationship could count as Stockholm syndrome/grooming" vs "woman who's clearly only seen as a trusted friend/comrade." They honestly should've just let him keep his adult form and be more like an older brother to Star (where they let him date some other adult and Star, a different teen). They also could've treated his mental entrapment seriously, or-if they *really* wanted to keep that Starco ship- do *anything else* where he wouldn't canonically be a middle-aged man trapped in his own teenage body. Shoot, he could've gotten the scissors by participating in a test for Reflectacorp's new, full-body VR headset; he played a fighter game for 8 mins but it felt like 16 years or something. There were just SO many other ways smh.

[@frankwest5388]

Actually there is a relatively simple solution. Don’t date. Marco is a teenager, he could just not date until he is physically an adult, dating other adults (and not a barley legal thing that would feel like grooming, wait until you are both like 20+). He is 14-16 in the show, he can keep it in his pants for 5 years. I did that as well in that age range (not willingly but still)

[@hanahayashi6374]

@@frankwest5388 Yup, that works too

[@elizabethk007]

Yeah… this was the main reason I didn’t feel comfortable shipping anyone with Marco after the Running with Scissors episode. It would be one thing if it was a standalone episode, but the show reminds you several times that Marco is a 30 year old now. In the episode “Marco Jr.” his parents try to take a personality quiz for him and list his age as 14-18 while Star marks his age as 26-35 (which is deemed correct). That means even Star (the girl he ends up with) saw Marco as a man in his 30s.

[@thecruzking]

Same felt gross macthing him up with most of the cast. the only ship that felt okayish was him with hekapoo since both were adults, that had clear interest/chemistry with each other.

[@FumanyuX]

@@thecruzking but then it would be an adult with a biological minor

[@Caan-dn1jb]

@@FumanyuX yeah thats the thing with deaging a character, you pretty much curse him to be alone, according to western culture at least, because they cant date within their physical age, as would be problematic for him nor they can date within their mental age, as it would be problematic for their partner

[@billcipher8645]

@@FumanyuX and? Many adults look like kids (aka me). There's no reason to find it "problematic" because not every adult will look like macho guys with beards. A lot of them look like teenagers. And that's okay as long as they are adult and can consent

[@pootismannmaikrafteano2678]

@@thecruzking Marco x hekapoo >>> marco x star

[@hearteyedracoon8605]

7:39 what's frustrating is that this could have been fixed if Marco still having his skills from his training was more of a muscle memory thing. Simple cartoon logic that wouldn't have been nearly as uncomfortable

[@Tweetyeti]

This would even have real world logic on its side. Often times traumatic events affect your working memory, but muscle memory is not actively controlled by our memory. Literally the perfect solution and they chose MESSY

[@erikbihari3625]

​​​​@@Tweetyeti. In my experience, if you needed quality tv then, but big netwroks(Nick=S.B.,C.n.=t.t.G.,Disney=😑)Canada. Heard of fangbone? You mean like if someone threw a shuriken to his head, then instinctive catch?

[@nevogolan6505]

I personally like the idea that the abs dimension represents pure power fantasy. Anyone who spends time there becomes a badass but they don't mature much

[@zcubeDbz]

I choose to believe Marco decided to push his experiences into the back of his mind and kept the skills he acquired and nothing else.

[@thetwotasksgirl1535]

I think the creators wanted this to be a one off joke that no one paid enough attention to to see how creepy this potentially could be

[@nachomolaolivera7580]

Perhaps the S2 director might have wanted it that way. But Daron Nefcy clearly didn't, it is after she takes complete control of the series that they bring up that he is actually an old man multiple times.

[@softlymeowgical7609]

@@nachomolaolivera7580 Ah, yes. The Rowling route. How I deeply loathe thee.

[@nachomolaolivera7580]

@@softlymeowgical7609 I have absolutely no idea what you mean.

[@softlymeowgical7609]

@@nachomolaolivera7580 To explain: The first Fantastic Beasts movie was under the helm of a good director who was able to make the characters likable and the story interesting. However the sequels were created under the supervision of the creator of Harry Potter who proceeded to screw over the legacy of the movies (on top of everything else she's done to alienate the LGBT community/original readership and exceedingly filmsy Word of God stuff post book finale). You can see the parallels with SvtFoE during and post season 2.

[@nachomolaolivera7580]

@@softlymeowgical7609 Perfect comparison, sorry I read it as "rolling" instead of "Rowling" and was extremely confused.

[@peter_pansexual6243]

Did anyone else find it weird that a lot of people in the show though that Mariposa (Marco's baby sister) was his daughter and were just fine with it? They thought that this 15 year old boy was a dad and they were ok with it.

[@ShokuaK]

Yeah, that weirded me out too. All Marco's friends were like "You and Star made a baby even though it's been less than 9 months since we've seen you? Nice~"

[@peter_pansexual6243]

@@ShokuaK my eldest sister is actually 15 years older than me and when she would take me on walks people assumed she was my mom

[@Someoneonceagain]

I think that they were just joking, but it’s been a while since I saw that episode

[@ShokuaK]

@@aduckofsomesort Well not with that attitude

[@velvety2006]

@@aduckofsomesort technically you can but it is probebly not healthy for the baby or the mom

[@Gemini-Lion]

One way to avoid this problem, specifically with Starco (not with Jackie x Marco), would’ve been to have Star stay in Heckapoo’s dimension instead of having Marco stay there for a second time. It would’ve dealt much more with the weird age gap between the two of them.

[@warbird333]

I'm not sure the 16 years of experience would change Marco's relationship with his parents because it was fairly well established that Marco was the responsible one in his family.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

Honestly shows like this make me respect shows like "Big City Greens" for being themselves and not trying to be something they are not, simply to satisfy the Gravity falls fans, resulting in them becoming trash.

[@michaelstrong5383]

Glad to see someone else is showing some love to Big City Greens. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for story-driven serialized shows if they're written well, but it's nice to take a break from those occasionally and just enjoy some episodic shows too. Big City Greens is so underrated.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

@@michaelstrong5383 that's because the snobbish Gravity falls fans won't watch anything that isn't "dark and story-driven" and would say a show is bad, even though they've never watched it.

[@dukeofkings8942]

@@valentinkambushev4968 ...You seem like you're not a huge fan of GF lmao

[@valentinkambushev4968]

@@dukeofkings8942 oh, I am a huge fan of Gravity falls. I am not a huge fan of the snobbish Gravity falls fans, who think that every show should be like Gravity falls and that they are too good to watch shows like "Big City Greens" and hate on them, desperate never watching them.

[@leovk5779]

@@valentinkambushev4968 I can enjoy both. Though when a show does well the "dark and story-driven" as you seem to say derogatorily, it benefits from it has it can have more depth. But as I said, I can also enjoy a serialized episodic fun show. Also, Gravity Falls was, and is, great. The fact it was copied poorly does not make the original any less good.

[@Valorian6167]

Here's my hot take: if you have an episode that would change the character extremely and you want to not deal with the repercussions from that episode, then don't have the episode.

[@nachomolaolivera7580]

The episode itself wouldn't have been a problem at all since it did make goods things like presenting one of the Magic High Commision members (In a very good way) and gave Marco another edge on the magical side of thins since now the scissors where rightfully his. Also because in the same time season 2 aired they immediately brush off his experience and say he remembers nothing from there, effectively making him a normal teenager. It is after in season 3 and 4 when they constantly hit you with "Oh, he is a full as grown adult and all our interest is shipping him with a 15 y/o", and therefore becomes a problem.

[@Justcallmeaqua420]

Or have it as the ending

[@rances4418]

@@Justcallmeaqua420 Honestly having him not remember but retain the skills. Could have easily been done kinda like distant past life he can’t really remember but retains muscle memory.

[@Justcallmeaqua420]

@@rances4418 agreed, better concept and would have loved seeing him accidentally throwing someone over his shoulders or done something else mid battle

[@anybodykillin]

Yeah I wonder if they thought this once they finished making the episode, but it was too late and just said fuck it.

[@therefinedgoose9368]

I always assumed the reason he wildly shifted between personalities was due to him switching between an adult brain that has stabilized, and then switching back to a teenage brain which is still developing and changing.

[@haylee-yd7wd]

Wait wait wait so he's 50!! In Running with Scissors he became 30 later on he went back to the dimension and stayed for 20 years 30 + 20 = 50 that makes it even worse😨

[@minit9999]

How to make Teen Marco have all the skills and experience from Heckapoo's dimension without the 15+ years of life: 1. Have Marco not remember it his time there like it was a vivid dream, quickly being forgotten within a day or two and only able to remember a few pieces that he'd focused on. 2. Have Marco go back and forth through the dimensions, Action Hero Marco Jotting down every thing he knows in a Journal for Teen Marco to read and practice. 3. While Action Hero Marco is essentially a long-distance Master for Teen Marco, a bit of that personality bleeds through, explaining his growing love for adventure.

[@Spicy_Pacifist]

Dude, honestly adult him teaching teen him how to fight when teen him doesn't remember any if it would be crazy badass

[@artxxx6524]

4. Give star extra 15 years of experience in that dimmention :D

[@ganymede8257]

Honestly they should've just let Marco and Star stay friends. Their friendship was so precious, and the way they just kissed in a barn was so rushed

[@furydeath]

That or have 'em kiss only for them find there isn't anything past being good friends for them or for 2020 and everyone just kisses everyone 🤣

[@Mati_2001]

They are like siblings 🤢.

[@Random_Pineapple]

I felt like they should have done it where the 30-year-old dimension was taken place 16 years after in a whole different world. Then when Marco and Star are in the dimension, they will both be 30 but not because they lived through 16 years, but because the dimension is taken place in 16 years after. Then Marco could have seen all of this and lived a day in this dimension and gotten more of a liking for fighting and sword fighting. Then in his free time, he could be training and then get better over time. Now they can have cool Marco and not deal with the whole age problem. Wonderful Video btw! It was amazing and it broke down everything really nicely!

[@Nutellla]

I think of it like a spongebob episode where at a new episode at pretty much resets to normal

[@chibiartstudios]

Unpopular opinion: The show should have kept the abb dimension arc and embraced it fully. Marco is 30 now. The romance with Star is dead and his love interest is Heckapoo now. Star can date the demon guy to fill the teen drama quota. These things make Marco sad. The time skip is actually a really interesting and unique character twist and I’d love to see it sincerely followed up on. I hated the way it was brushed aside for convenience.

[@disallusionment4449]

And Marco becomes an older brother figure for Star

[@Volvagia1927]

@@disallusionment4449 Yeah. There are a few ways they could have handled this plot point (ACTUALLY handled it), but the angle they went with was blasé and DEEPLY creepy.

[@egbertmilton4003]

Nah, he and Jackie were perfection, remove this stuff altogether. Hekapoo is a war criminal who prevented the end of the war between monsters and Mewmans, convincing Festivia to carry on with bloodshed against the monsters. She's just as problematic as a partner as Star

[@Volvagia1927]

​@@egbertmilton4003 Okay. 1. One of the partners as a Creepy Sex Pest is worse, relationship wise, than War Criminal and 2. Engaging with Hekapoo as War Criminal might have been a GREAT episode premise and they don't have to ignore a plot point to do it?

[@drendraleigh4722]

Or maybe just make him forgot he had lived those 16 years ENTIRELY because they can still keep his bad ass factor even then. Marco might forget he had been training for 16 years in another dimention but his muscle memories won't. It could have been fun to see awkward teenage Marco do some sick ass sword play and be like "I CAN DO THAT!??!??"

[@djordjekrsmanovic]

I mean they could have just said he doesn't remember anything but he still retains all his skills because they just got ingrained into him do to 16+ years of habit and he can just do all those cool things subconsciously

[@BlueBlazeKing]

True I would frame it like this Tom : So you really spent 16 years training, what was it like? Marco: It’s a little weird but when I got back home, all the memories during that time just blurred together as if it was just a dream. Like I can still do some of the stuff I learned but I can barely remember my time there.

[@Thegravedigger0]

They did say that he doesn't remember anything, or rather his experience became like a dream

[@kittenbolt5399]

You know what would be a good alternative, if Marco in the regular world figured it was just a fever dream and doesn't really think it's real but whenever he entered the heckapoo dimension and got into his adult form he remembered it all. Almost like a viel of some sorts

[@neohelios4776]

Honnestly if I was the one who thought about a solution to this problem is that Marco as a character had his personality and his mental age re-adapted to his current body when he returned to earth regressing to a personality closer to his original. Which still leaves and impact on his personality and keeps his memories of the "abs" dimension.

[@virginiafernandez6846]

Like, if at least they'd explored the effect of his 15-y-old timeskip... But nooo! We don't even know what actual effects it had on him!

[@BlueBlazeKing]

The most we get is him forgetting his password at the end of the episode , but it’s never brought up again

[@starlette7820]

Tomstar and Markelly/Jarco were the only ships I had in this godforsaken show and they all ended badly. Tom and Star genuinely had good development, after Tom stopped trying to win her back and showed her that he genuinely wanted to be better not only for her, but for himself and others around him too, she started to see that he really was starting to change, and old feelings reamerged allowing herself to give him another chance. They were genuinely so wholesome and sweet, and worked through their issues together really nicely while they were together. I hated that they broke them up for starco, that ship had become so toxic at that point that it was literally unlikeable.

[@smart.but.stupid]

Preach, dude. I still ship these ships even to this day - partly because I don't really want "canon" to ruin all the fun for me, neither am I gonna bend under Starcos and Nefcy's BS.

[@reasyrandom]

They teased the idea of a polycule at the end of Season 3 and then did nothing with it! It would've fixed everything!

[@white0thunderwhite0thunder71]

The show was full of relationships between the main characters and their dating partners that actually seemed like good relationships... only to immediately break up OFF SCREEN so that the writer can continue the shipping wars.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Markelly just sounds wrong

[@poijnve3912]

where did exactly you get that? what development? tom was still the same bad boyfriend he was at the start... he didn't change at all haha

[@marci_off]

just change his actual memory into muscle memory, and that his life-changing stuff fully comes back when he's in the abbs detention, so when he comes back it feels more like a dream, wired and distant, but he still has the muscle memory of fighting, he had to do it constantly for years so it makes sense for him to still have that with him, maybe it's a spiderman situation where he slowly notices, oh snap, I'm kinda strong now huh? its better then him being an adult that's what I think :,) (sorry for jacked English its not my first language)

[@TheRandomBox707]

What i think they should have done is as u said, he forgets when he's back home and if he returned he remembers, but if the writers wanted him to have cool abilities n skills, they could have played it off as muscle memory or body memory. His body remembers the training physically, but Marco mentally and personally can not remember a thing as if being in a 12 day sleep coma. Keeps him a teenager in everything else but that world, and keeps things less weird.

[@greenleopard49]

The show should have Jason Borne'd Marco. When Marco leaves the Ab dimension, he doesn't remember his time there but he retains the muscle memory of all the training that he went through. While he is in his 15 year old body he sporadically uses his skills. Sometimes, it is in the middle of combat, other times it is when it is in the middle of school and he accidentally attacks a student. Then we could have a training arc which includes Star to get a better handle of his abilities without the baggage of him being mentally in his 30's.

[@elliepira8400]

Whilst a big Starco shipper at the time, now years later I think I'd have preferred it if Marco had stayed more his adult self after realizing he no longer belongs on Earth just pretending nothing had changed and ended up with Heckapoo instead. Having his own side adventure that also deals with important things in the world, establishing himself and Hecka as protagonists of their own story with him and Star just being friends and helping each other in the end. Kinda of like Finn and Flame Princess.

[@beluga1246]

I was always so sure that the only reason they introduced Heckapoo as the creator of the scissors was because of that Finn x FP comparison. The scissors could've been anyone else's creation, if the plot was gonna be "Marco pisses off the creator by misusing an artifact"

[@skarlet9104]

Man, you had to bring Finn x FP... They did them so dirty I swear.

[@SeaweedRain]

BIG SAME THO! I think as a kid I was just SO enthralled with starco (tbf I enjoyed markapoo a lot too) but I really do think if I rewatched it now as an adult I would want a different outcome (not that I enjoyed the ending as a kid either tho lmao). I really do think that this one episode of him going out on his own with Hekapoo should have sparked at least more character interactions between them, even if he didn't stay in that world (due to the fact that he would have aged so rapidly) and should have let him branch out more. I understand the show is called STAR vs the forces of evil, but Marco was our second lead and it could have avoided a lot of unnecessary shipping in later episodes

[@alyssabullock6421]

Unfortunately Heckapoo is also kinda sus though, because she's really old, and knew Marco since he was a child in her dimension. So her getting together with him would be questionable on her part

[@noratheweeb9387]

This would honestly have been a VERY interesting way to take it, honestly. Even as a Starco shipper, I would’ve loved if they took it that way. It not only makes sense, but they didn’t even have to remove Marco from the story for a time like FP was for it to happen. He could have easily still been included often enough to make a compelling story. Hell, if they still wanted to do some romance thing, but didn’t want to have her go back to her ex, they could have introduced a new character she’d romance as the story goes along, since I know disney wouldn’t have let them have her go for Janna or Jackie.

[@mememan1546]

I really can't watch this show without becoming completely enraged. The more I see, the more angry I get. Thank you for making this video.

[@FalseGardenOfEden]

A good example of the whole older person in a younger body actually being written well is umbrella academy cause they are aware and constantly get a reminder that he is old.

[@Rembreiker_lychec9257]

Fridge Brilliance: While Marco seemed to re-adapt to his normal life with little trouble; it must be noted that, at this point, Marco's normal life mostly consisted of going on exciting and dangerous adventures with Star. But when Star returned to Mewni, Marco began to show clear difficulties with adapting to a life without danger and adventure. He could only talk about his past adventures, and refused to remove the cape that King River awarded him. Even when he realized how unhealthy his behavior was, he was still unable to stop. This prevented Marco from reigniting his friendship with Alonzo and Ferguson; and, more importantly, led to the collapse of his romantic relationship with Jackie. In the end, Marco had to move to Mewni because he could not adapt to a normal life. Thus, the ending of this episode "Running with Scissors" may be considered foreshadowing for the fact that Marco will not be able to return to the life that he led before he met Star.

[@lavendernightshade5631]

damn was that from tv tropes or did you come up with that yourself because damn!

[@smart.but.stupid]

But it's so unhealthy. I literally know what it feels like when a really amazing person appears in your life and changes it. How fun, exciting and cool this whole change is. But you have to remember that - well, it's not yours. With same person gone you're gonna return to the gloomy, grey routine. That's why it's important to not just drown in fascinating new relationships/friends/people, but change your life so it'll become wholesome on its own.

[@watertommyz]

@@smart.but.stupid So, moving away from your home state and or country should never ever happen? Because that sounds toxic to just commit to family and or friends if you find new ones, just because they were "first." I think this needs better wording, because this sounds like being a homebody is the norm and can't be toxic on its own.

[@smart.but.stupid]

@@watertommyz that's literally not what I meant. Moving away should happen if you feel like it. But in Marco's case his obsession with Star, Mewni, all the FUN stuff got so much in the way of his normal life and put an end to all the things he cared about and all the progress he's made. I mean, the boy didn't even finish school properly, his relationship with his girlfriend he had a crush on since kindergarden ended on a sour note - he didn't even pay a visit to his parents after he was gone. At least he could've put some effort in it - but he didn't, and it's not because he felt he didn't belong there anymore without Star, it's because he didn't really try. Like, it felt like he didn't even care. He wanted Star and all the fun opportunities she could give him, and that's all he cared about. You can move on with your life, but still care about your close ones, you know.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Kind of hard to call or text across dimensions Ashley.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

It's funny how easily problematic parts of a story can be fixed if the writers use their brains (looking at Sasuke and Sakura's "love story").

[@rinxmacaroni2085]

i stll find it weird people who praise it

[@justacuteonigiri]

Sasuke and Sakura makes sense

[@midas6753]

@@justacuteonigiri he tried murdering her directly like 5 times. I know the joke about marriage is that the husband and wife want to kill each other but that's not supposed to be literal. They don't make sense.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

@@midas6753 they COULD have made sense if the writers weren't so out of touch with what's romantic and what is not.

[@midas6753]

@@valentinkambushev4968 yup 100% there was potential but it wasn't even poorly executed, it wasn't executed at all

[@leavemealone802]

SVTFOE did everything wrong I'm many different ways, is almost impressive Thank God we have the Owl House, that did everything right in comparison And it is funny, bc the creator of TOH is the current girlfriend of Star's creators ex, and Star's creator said many times that she made Tom to be a mix of all her bad relationships. So is sort of like TOH creator saw all the shade in Star, and thought "I gonna do the same show, but better"

[@CalipsaOrIsIt]

The best explanation I can think of is that the longer he’s away from the dimension the hazier his memories of it gets, which would explain why his life there becomes more relevant to normal life when he starts going back more. However, if it really were the case, a crew member probably would have said so… Another explanation could be that while his memories become fuzzy, his muscle memory of the skills he learns remains. Once again, I really wished this were the case, but if it were someone would have said something. I’m really disappointed that no one on the crew could think of a better explanation than the one they gave

[@insertaname2485]

I would have liked it if Star and Marco were more like an older worried uncle or older brother who can be cool and a younger chaotic niece or younger sibling of relationship, it would make some interesting and funny moments, it wouldn't weird people out, and it brings something fresh on the table instead of a boy and girl becomes friends and later turns into a couple. And maybe Marco likes a person who has a 1 year age gap and Star could be a supporting family member and Marco could help Star out with issues she's facing and try to support her.

[@aroeenafaith5519]

I'm not sure about the info I'm about to give you, so take it with a grain of salt. But I heard that was actually supposed to be the plan, for Marco and Star to just stay friends, but the people who shipped starco got a little too... agressive, to say the least (dea*h threats). And the writers didn't really have a choice in the matter, for mental health's sake.

[@shadowpuppet8192]

Never was a Starco shipper. Honestly, as soon as I saw them be introduced to each other, I knew they were going to end up together. But MAN did I pray they wouldn't be. I really wished she'd ended up with Tom. They were actually really good for and to each other! He got better for himself and her.

[@smart.but.stupid]

Uh, can we be friends?

[@shadowpuppet8192]

@@smart.but.stupid Absolutely!

[@smart.but.stupid]

@@shadowpuppet8192 yaaay lmao But seriously, I've read the "I was never a Starco shipper" sentence and felt like I've so rarely heard it I it's almost bizarre lol

[@shadowpuppet8192]

@@smart.but.stupid Well, I grew up in the era of Ross and Rachel clones. If the protagonists were of opposite genders they'll start off as friends but always end up together. Even if along the 'will they won't they' train either finds a partner that is fundamentally better for them in every conceivable way.

[@Random_Pineapple]

I felt like they should have made starco at the start/middle of season 2 and then build their relationship from there. Kinda like what The owl House did for Lumity. BUT NO!! THEY DIDN'T DO THAT 💀 Starco sucks because of that, Lucikly, I hate both macro and star! ig there meant to be- I also agree with Tom and Star. It was cute when they lasted! But they runied that too so then Star became toxic for Tom. I agree with what you said! I wish SVTFOE had some logic and didn't random stuff-

[@CamiloFHSC]

Even when the Hekapoo episode first aired I was left with a feeling of "oh, that sure is a decision you made...". But yeah, I feel you assessment is right; the show is stuck between "silly show with lol random humor" and "consistent story dealing with complex issues" and did not manage the balance of the two particularly well. Adult Marco is one of the biggest pieces of evidence to that.

[@nachomolaolivera7580]

And let's not forget, he isn't merely 30 (which is already double Star's age) he is over forty, being older than his own parents. Last time he goes to the Neverzone and returns he states that he has grey hairs which none of his parents have at age 41 and 42. Meaning he has to be older.

[@dr.blockcraft6633]

Not necessarily. Being in A high Stress environment Put a Lot of Physical stress On your Body, and Ages you Physically a Lot faster. If you Never had To worry About finances, Ever, you Could probably Live an Additional 15-30 Years, due To the Stress relief Of not having To think About money. Marco was In a Life or Death situation, For that Entire time. That would Make him Age even Quicker. (without The benefits) Not that It's necessary True in This case, He did Spend another 20 years There after All, canonically.

[@Jaybirdieblue]

I still maintain the opinion that Tomco is best ship

[@Twinflame915]

Starco

[@michaelstrong5383]

What's funny about that is that Tom was based off of Daron Nefcy's ex-boyfriend while Marco was her real life husband. So the fact that both of them had better chemistry than Starco is so ironic.

[@belleoehler2024]

Hell yea

[@kamerongreen5993]

Tomco for life

[@doe4003]

Agreed

[@thegreedyworm3120]

I just assumed his brain also became less developed like his body, so like 30 years of memories but the maturity of a kid

[@whateverwhatever4476]

That would make sense since the brain is still developing as a child

[@Someoneonceagain]

But don’t memories also help in your maturity? You don’t have 30 years of memories but don’t learn anything from them

[@something4922]

@@aduckofsomesort Adding on I feel like he wouldn't have matured in the way he would on Earth and Mewni due to the nature of the dimension.

[@Someoneonceagain]

Ok, random thing not related to this, how come all our names are just stating that we don’t know who we are? Edit: well, mine changed, but it used to be still someone

[@hello_ree]

@@Someoneonceagain lol

[@thedoctorofgallifrey]

What they should've done is have him come back, and immediately forget. But he keeps a lot of the personality change, like he loves fighting. Then over time, he starts to remember. It causes him to essentially have a crisis about what happened cause he doesn't remember. I think that could go somewhere.

[@wanderingyeehaw]

Watching the intro got goin AYYYOOO!!! *Spring boing sound effect* *bounces away*

[@The-Random-Hamlet]

Also, I was a bit disappointed that the whole monster arm thing was never touched on again. I knew it wouldn't be, but I thought it might lead to some interesting things. Especially in light of Toffee's condemnation of Marco.

[@joshuaharris3039]

Thank You! I have been dying for someone to bring that up!

[@The-Random-Hamlet]

@@joshuaharris3039 You're welcome ;)

[@porobotboyxxx]

Technically Marco’s older than 30, since he spent some time rebuilding an Ice Kingdom.

[@nachomolaolivera7580]

Older than his own parents, they have not a single grey hair but at the end of that episode Marco himself says he has a lot of them.

[@porobotboyxxx]

@@nachomolaolivera7580 Man, this ship is creepy now. *o^O* I miss Marco x Hekapoo.😔

[@nekogamer2508]

@@porobotboyxxx we need more fanfics of Marcapoo

[@xempororhxppyx]

@@nekogamer2508 Well now Hekapoo is dead. Its all Stars fault.

[@nekogamer2508]

@@xempororhxppyx yeah because she didn't want to deal with problem at it's core

[@desertphoenix7908]

Would have been interesting to see Marco have a character arc trying to find his place in the world, seeing him try to approach girls his age only to reject him because his too young, have him trying to hang out with older people only to find him childish, to have him trying to reconnect with his friends only to see how much his changed. Having him find his identity as he has to realize he's an not a teen anymore but forced to live the reality to continue his new life since he is a teen again

[@soulzuniverse5097]

actually u make a point he isnt exactly an adult and not just a normal teen anymore...so itd be hard to fit in on either side tbh in reality. not really his fault and he deserves love too? xD

[@rickydiscord7671]

I think there's a show about a character like that. I forgot what's called and what it is about. but I remember there's a character trying to fit in a world while he's between ages mentally and physically. than again there's ALOT of rebirth animes have done this so many times already.

[@Diana-tl8pn]

Honestly, no idea how did they make it so weird. Umbrella academy did the concept so much better and that show is not only weird by default but the love interests was a mannequin.

[@brandonwilliams5423]

Actually there is an episode where Marco returns a sword and helps to rebuild an entire civilization offscreen and he said he has some white hair so he is much older but when he returns to the never zone later for mariposa and meteora he is 30 years old again (probably an error in the continuity or a retcon)

[@nachomolaolivera7580]

FUCKING FINALLY, I thought I was the only one to bring this one up.

[@Mestionora_Books]

Maybe that's civilization dimension somewhat has a separate timeline, so Marco has 3 different ages in those 3 different dimensions?

[@milktea6676]

Did anyone else ship grown up marco and hekapoo together? They had a weird amount of chemistry

[@TheArthurxz]

Yes

[@TheArthurxz]

In my opinion they worked alot better i was sad when hekapoo died off screen

[@ukaszgrzesik7231]

Like a FedEx

[@thecruzking]

loved the chemistry plus for me a playful relationship built on trust and respect. plus to me it was the only ship that marco could really have that wasn't gross. seriously wonder how no one in the room brought up how pairing a 30+ year old adult with a girl thats like 14 was a bad and gross idea.

[@akolbinger]

100% my favorite ship from that show and I wish it was more popular

[@Alhelir]

Or they could have an episode where Star and all the other children dating each other in love triangles became lost in the Hekapoo dimension shenanigans and spend 16 years becoming their adult buff selves, less “icky” to put it in some way.

[@renjiai]

I always kind of thought he remembers vaguely but it feels like another life to him and when he's back home he feels and thinks like a 15 year old again.

[@Voxivus]

Disney sure has done some questionable things!

[@valentinkambushev4968]

CJ: NO SHIT!

[@exist7513]

Song of the south

[@valentinkambushev4968]

@@exist7513 that's pretty harmless, compared to other stuff Disney has done.

[@genericname2747]

Romance between 30 year old and teenager: Ok Romance between 2 girls who are the same age: Cancel the show

[@Voxivus]

@@genericname2747 Sounds about right

[@michaelstrong5383]

*Star vs:* The show where all the ships are better than the main one.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

Like most shows and movies.

[@DipperPines1986]

This is so accurate

[@Avocartoonist226]

I never thought about it before but I like to think that being stuck in the neverzone without actually living his life left him mentally 15 so nothing changes but the experience when he gets back

[@TailsClock]

I like to bring up the Marco and Star relationship as well as the Trunks and Mai relationship, because it's just so much fun to watch people's smiles turn into frowns of disgust. And that because they both "look" the same age people think it's okay, meanwhile an actual adult relationship in some anime will cause outrage because of the characters looking young. Which shows how much damage someone has in their brain when they think that looks matter and age doesn't. I'm used to weird stuff like this in anime, but I never expected to see it in a western cartoon, I feel like that makes this Marco Star situation feel even more worse. However I think you're overselling how much Marco would change. If I went back in time 16 years and met my 16yr old self, I would be my best friend. I didn't change, I just know which shows are worth watching now and which are not. And I lost a lot of my insignificant worries and replaced them with worse worries. I'd already moved on from my racist phase by 16 so I don't think I changed much from that point on. I was already mature. Or, boring, I guess. A 30yr old Marco SHOULD have had SOME noticeble changes, but there is nothing to back up your claim that he'd be a new character. The older Marco we saw had more changes than the show acknowledged, but sent back to a familiar and nostalgic setting, he could start acting pretty similar to how he used to. At my current age I'd probably act more belieavly like a teen if I was time travelled back to my highschool years. I never had a teenage experience my first time around. I didn't like anyone and no-one liked me. My interests expanding and confidence growing came after I had already failed all my exams. Redoing that and actually having friends and fun and good grades is a nice thought. It's so weird to say that I'd be a better teenager now that I'm older, but that is the reality of it. I'm probably not a normal case though. But this was never something the show kept hidden or secret. It was never something I had to think too hard about. It was an unavoidable fact you just had to live with knowing as the show kept pushing him on young girls. I didn't dwell on it, but I never forgot about it. And it's always been weird. It's something you'd have to willfully ignore. So it is so bizarre that this is the first video I've ever seen on the topic. Also thinking to anime, and the one you namedropped, when Rudeus gets 'romantic' with... Eris? I think that's her name. The red head. When he does that, I don't think there's anyone thinking "What a cute couple". They're rightfully thinking "Oh wow this guy should be in jail". His relationships with older women are also bad with him very clearly taking advantage of situations where they don't realise he's being such a pervert. He's an absolute creep. And this is never hidden. Marco and Star is that without the admission of the problem. And that MAKES it a problem. Star Vs is taking a stance that is not a very cool stance to take. This is not a plot hole. This is not a non-issue. This feels like the intention. When it comes to shows with the worst written relationships of all time, Star Vs is a contender for first place. Incompetence or intention, the end result makes both bad.

[@ShizuruRavenRobin026]

To this day I think the only thing I'll ever remember star versus the forces of evil 4 is how crazy all of the ships were the same with Voltron as well as much as I wasn't even really into Voltron for the shipping but I really wanted to know more about the story the lore and certain things about the characters it felt like all of that was tossed aside due to how the show runners were acting and how the people with the ships were acting and they can be say it for star versus the forces of evil I actually bought the book for this show and I'm sitting here upset knowing that I still have it and that I think if I tried to sell it no one will buy it due to the bad taste of the show left in people's mouth

[@TheCommenterDragon]

I can still remember when that particular episode of SVTFOE also sparked the whole ship between adult Marco and Hekapoo.

[@beluga1246]

To be fair, with how flirty they were in one episode, and having canonical *years* of rivalry and history, Markapoo had more fuel than any other ship we'd seen at that point

[@TheCommenterDragon]

@@beluga1246 True, in fact ngl when i say i used to ship Marcapoo as well.

[@CyberFunk626]

“I will not review Final Space.” Me: _Understands in Sad_

[@AceOBlade]

you know what might have helped disney letting them finish the story with one more season instead of them having to rush everything into half a season

[@FerraticaTheBard]

I think it would have been interesting to see them acknowledge and have Marco act like the age he became, and could have potentially worked and led to a lot of really funny scenarios, but to do that they would also have had to give up on Starco or Marco even seriously dating anyone, and they weren't willing to do that. Like, it would have been funny as heck to see an episode start with Marco doing taxes, because his parents said he needs to learn, since he's an adult now - it could even have been a funny running gag in the episode that Marco's going on an adventure with Star while also still trying to get the taxes done! Or Marco grumbling about still having to go to high school when he's an adult, only to be confronted with, "Yeah, an adult who never finished high school, go do your homework." There are a lot of ways they could have gone with it that show Marco's character has altered, while also taking advantage of the show's lighter tone to not alter it so much that he's an entirely new character. They just needed to give up on the shipping angle and let Marco and Star shift into more of an inter-generational friendship angle, and it could have become something really special as a result. Instead we have... the show they actually did.

[@chosentragedy3934]

I would actually be more interested if they kept that + Marco battling with himself when it comes to feelings for star. Bc in a way he's still 15, but he's an adult too so it can't happen (and ofc it doesnt end up with them together, but it would be interesting to see that internal conflict and eventually talking to star like, 'I like you, but I can't be with you')

[@FerraticaTheBard]

@@chosentragedy3934 Oh! That would also be a great direction to take this, I like that idea, too!

[@henrywang3977]

Well, a person's mentality is not purely decided by memories. So a teenager with 30+ age memory, may still has mental age similar to physical age, if the brain parts handling emotions and personalities roll back to old stage. --In this case, having extral memory is like having watched a decade long movie or dream, or like having played a long videogame from first-personal perspective while learning all the skills but not actually feeling like being the hero of that game. Or like this: watching throuth someone else's life, does not make you that person. Only in this case that "someone else" is yourself from another dimension. --There are cases that people with brain damage suddenly grows a totally different personality, but does not lose much memories. --There are revrse examples of Marco, that some times a very severe amnesia can take out decades of memories. Which is basically the same as a teenager suddenly wakes up in a middle-aged body. But many times a patient can adapt to the reality, and have their mentality grows quicker than actual time to match their physical age. (So the show could have carried out like this: Besides all the running gags you have promoted. They could have Marco being confirmed that his still has the mental age of a teenager, even having all the extral memories, explaining why he had a hard time did not use his new skills responsibly as an adult. Maybe he is more mature due to excessive memories, but only like being mentally 18 or 19 while being physically 16. And his mentality is aging much slower than his body if not regressing, so his physical age will soon catch up with his brain within a year. And to make it even less creepy, they could arrange a date with Marco and an older woman, proving that this does not work. With Marco said his memory tells him he could get this done if he's a 32 man, but his teenage emotions tell him this is too weird to handle.)

[@roifroid4862]

This video reminded me of something that happened a few years ago. When I was seventeen years old I had a very strange experience in a dream. basically I lived my whole life in this dream, from my birth until my death in the hospital. The thing was, this dream was so real for me that when I woke up I couldn't believe it was all in my head, especially when my girlfriend at the time came to talk to me. I legitimately felt disgusted with myself, as in my post-dream vision I should have been in my 90s, while she was 16. I had to spend time in therapy to get this resolved. I wanted to know, taking advantage of the topic of the video, if it was a very big reaction that I had? I really believed that I had already lived so was it stupid or not?

[@nachomolaolivera7580]

Not stupid at all, it is a rather normal reaction and does show you have a sense of morality. As long as we have stablished it really was a mere dream, and that you never tried to take advantage over her, You are alright. Even showed off that your best interest was in not harming her in any shape or form.

[@sakareeh]

That’s is cool and terrifying. My bf and best friend hand some dream like this too

[@Erica-nf2tj]

This is the most existentially terrifying thing I have ever read.

[@LCFUNNY]

For me it was just a year long relationship with some guy I never met I was about to meet his family and I woke up I was so upset about I tried to go back to sleep nope haven’t had dream since n it was the best relationship I could’ve had 😭😭😭

[@mayateeemm5728]

this reminds me of that junji ito comic where the guy in the hospital keeps having dreams that span progressively longer time periods. i think it was called the long dream or something

[@aMythologicalDriedCactus]

They’ve actually been doing it since their first Disney princess movie Snow White:14 Her Prince:31 31-14=17 THEY GOT A 17 YEAR AGE-GAP!!!

[@samflood5631]

Felt that this relationship would be less creepy if the prince was either 17 or 16.

[@TheRichmaster24]

great analysis

[@Devi1Admon]

Goodness, this takes me back. After the initial Buff Marco episode aired, I was blown away by the implications it had for Marco, his relationship with everyone, and how the show would move forward from this. I spent an hour discussing it with a family member, who I nudged into watching SVTFOE with me. Looking back, I must have seemed like a raving lunatic. … so imagine my confusion and disappointment when Buff Marco was forgotten & a non-issue, except when he actually was. This really threw me into chaos, and overly complicated my series for the show, even as weirder plot points and creative choices were made. And while I never engaged in the shipping wars, I lowkey shipped Marco with Hekapoo, partly because their dynamic felt more equal and amusing than what Starco had, and partly because dating Hekapoo was the least creepy option for Marco at this point. Another reason I feel like a lunatic when factoring Marco’s real age, for believing for even a second that Starco wasn’t endgame. Perhaps this is backwards minded, but I do think Hekapoo was killed off not once, but twice for even being a romantic option for Marco. Demon girl had to double die for our lord & savior, Starco.

[@goj1_lag00n]

I shipped Marco and Hekapoo the moment I watched the episode. I mean, she's fun and hot (literally too) and she and Marco share a long personal history. Heck, Marco knows her longer than any other person in his life. Also, the romantic chemistry was so noticeable in the episode.

[@Someoneonceagain]

If they REALLY wanted to keep that episode, they could have found a way for Star and adult Marco to go back in time and bring young Marco back while adult Marco stayed adventuring with Heckapoo

[@sarahgerena8577]

The umbrella company did the old man trapped in his teenage body thing amazingly. He acts cynical yet there are times where he pull out his fight training but in his younger more flexible body, then there are moments when he just acts alil bit like a teenager

[@LimationsTvT]

Look this show stop so long ago i dont want to cry again 😭😭😭

[@MercenaryX84]

This is a personal landmine in the show that people really try not to step or it will literally blow up everything that you know to bee true and right

[@Darkgun231]

This raises the question of what makes an adult: the body or the mind? Obviously, a 30 year old dating teens would be extremely creepy, but Marco is either a 30 year old in a teen body, or a teen with the experiences, memories, and skills of an adult. What does he count as? How does one determine age when time-travel shenanigans exist? It's the sort of question reincarnation Isekai don't bother asking.

[@nachomolaolivera7580]

Mushoku Tensei doesn't ask that, straight up answers it is a freacking fat 30 years old trying to hok up with a minor. But never condems it, endorses it fully. And somehow people aren't paradeing the author's head through the streets.

[@soulzuniverse5097]

..unpopular take no one thought of? (Ok reading some more maybe people did lmao): i think the show goes with this more but idk????... maybe im being too naive/etc. *shrugs* but id say marco never mentally aged, he was more like a teen stuck in adult body in that world. He shows that by his immature selfish actions and lack of growth. if he was mentally 30 he'd be behaving a lot less like a hormonal cocky whiney teenager and more solid, smooth flowing, wiser, mature, etc.... so no i disagree his mental age is still a wild rebellious teenager that doesnt know wtf he is doing, all teens would act exactly like marco in the real world and do what he is doing lmao... at least most. every teen dreams of being an adult to get some imagined freedom etc, yet wants to remain a teen its confusing but common, i dont think it means they all wanna be creepy little creeps ... most. now ill say some probably are ... but dont automatically assume this i think? -and i agree with you. things get really complex and confusing, sometimes i feel people maybe trying too hard to say everything is bad evil twisted creepy when it wasnt meant that way?.. but then again idk x'D.. also you just mentioned reincanartion and if u remember those memories and retain those parts of yourself yet have your new younger self as well......THAT can get really confusing - at the end of the day there id say knowledge and intent really matter ; you may THINK you are big bad wise adult like all kids/teens who wanna "grow up" do but if you monitor though processes actions etc you find they really are still just dumb emotional confused teens soo... (knowing from experience) but if you have ill intent and intended shit that way and know what you are doing exactly then thats super wrong...i agree. ~A.D.R

[@JohnDoe-uf3lj]

Oh dear… bring up isekai is either a great idea or an awful idea. Because there a literally shows about grown men in children’s bodies using this as a chance to groom and pursue relationships with young girls 😱 I think StarVs was probably just putting in this scenario as a joke and had no idea how bad the implications were. Oops…

[@joshuayonemura2572]

I think the show as a whole implies that although keeping the memories from Hekapu's Dimension Marco is mentally the age of whatever body he is in. This would still make it blurry however because gaining 16 years of experience usually makes someone an adult. However, if someone learned 16 years of experience from a mentor in less time, could someone argue that is 16 years of experience? If there was 16 years of stories and a person with photographic memory read it all in 2 years, would that be 16 years of knowledge? This is my take: Starco isn't weird because having information doesn't make you an adult. It is about the balance of mental and physical age. If the balance is broken, that character is an adult.

[@bullettime1116]

@@JohnDoe-uf3lj mushoku tensei is an example of the wrong way to do that sort of plot point

[@Killertakeout]

They could have explained his sword fighting skills as muscle memory and him being a bit confused at first as to how he got it (forgetting in his og timeline) only for Star to remind him about his lifetime journey. Still with haziness until he returns back to that Dimension with full clarify and forgetting again when he returns. But them muscles will remember

[@pkmntrainerred4247]

Honestly I think what happened to Marco sounds like a *badass* shonen anime plot with some really deep potential.

[@simpgod2170]

They could have easily have made a episode where star for some reason goes to the dimension by herself, Marco learns about it and follows after her several minutes later (our dimension time) and finding a adult star with years of experience. It would've solved the problem right there

[@stuffposter9011]

This show derailed faster than you could say "DAMN"

[@BlackCat-mi3pm]

HELLO, FINAL SPACE! FINALLLY!! Please, pleaaaase do a final space video.

[@zerareota1560]

this is making me think of a video I saw recently about identity and vr. It’s been shown that when people use children/child like body’s in vr they often start to act more child like over extended periods of time. I feel like a similar situation would apply here, where he would start to behave like his teenage self due to his circumstances

[@michaelstrong5383]

Fun fact: The final episode of Star vs aired on the same day as the series finale to Game of Thrones. *May 19, 2019:* A day that will live in television infamy.

[@snowarmth]

"damn.. Star Versus had such a terrible finale. That's alright.. I'll finish Game of Thrones to take my mind off of it.."

[@sirkillalot9892]

@@snowarmth It's darkly hilarious that Star Vs had a bigger body count/genocide than Game of Thrones.

[@snowarmth]

@@sirkillalot9892 So well said lol

[@michaeleanthonyjr]

I think it's a case of something that isn't that bad, but just should not have been done. The show had multiple ways to remedy this: 1. Have him not remember any of his experiences, and if you want to keep the results of his training, then you would just say that he has a subconscious memory of the skills that he gained, and nothing else. 2. Have Star also go into the dimension by herself for a decade so that at the very least, they're the same age 3. Make it so every time someone goes to Hekapoo's dimension, their chronological, physical, and mental age resets back to whatever it was before they entered the portal every time And only the 2nd option would be at all difficult to write around, but at the very least the context of our real world and our perception of the reality of the fictional world, would not be clashing with the reality of said fictional world regarding the relationship between an adult that acts like a teen and a teen.

[@DrawciaGleam02]

Yep, this was a concept that was cool on paper but NOT great in execution.

[@WobblesandBean]

How on earth was this "not that bad"?

[@michaeleanthonyjr]

@@WobblesandBean Because, as Sarcastic Chorus stated, the story doesn't take the concept seriously in any way that communicates that they are trying to say that it's okay for a 30 year old in a 15 year old's body to date a 15 year old. How something is framed in the context of a story often matters more than whether or not said thing exists within a story. And the fact of the matter is that the story thinks that Marco is fundamentally still 15 and likes to ignore that he's actually 30 until it's convenient. It would be a lot worse if the story took his age seriously but still played with the romance in the same way. But Marco looks, thinks, and behaves like a 15 year old, so it makes it a lot less egregious than if he were actually thinking and acting like a 30 year old.

[@Thegravedigger0]

1 is exactly what they did! Or rather, it was stated that marco remembered his experiences like a dream

[@michaeleanthonyjr]

@@Thegravedigger0 They did it for a while, but then when you watch later episodes, such as the ones where he returns to Hekapoo's dimension, it makes it pretty obvious that he remembers everything that he's gone through within that dimension. The video here says as much.

[@BlackReshiram]

god i wish there was a good cartoon (or even any show really) with good shipping material in it anymore

[@yetanotherethan9747]

I think it would have been awesome if Marco had originally forgotten what happened in the Ab Dimension, with occasional muscle memory moments and weird dreams. Sometime in the 3rd season, he realizes that the time he spent there meant a lot more than he had initially thought, and decides to return to the Ab Dimension to reacquaint himself with that lifestyle, which satisfies his need for adventure and action, but also drives him and his Earth friends apart over time. Maybe in the 3rd or 4th season, they could have a reconciliation episode where Marco finally finds the balance between the two lives he lives, and that character arc is over. That would have been super cool to watch, and would have been a free character development opportunity. Oh well.

[@Kedai610]

Honestly with all the missed opportunities and directionless nonsense the show got up to, I feel like speculating on it is way more fun than revisiting it.