How Should Christians Think About and Engage with Politics? with Jeff Myers

[@SearchScripture]

Wow. So informative and appreciated. So many quotes can be taken, but one that stood out was, ""...The goal is not to vote for the lesser of two evils, the goal is to vote in a way that lessens evil." Told to Jeff Myers by his friend Kevin Bywater of Summit Ministries at about the 26 minute mark.

[@reginaford8575]

Love the quote also. We have a King (Jesus) and a kingdom. Our cituzenship is heaven, but we are ambassadors and to occupy until he comes!!!!

[@robertfreid2879]

I'm glad Jeff Myers mentions the contrasts between the French Revolution and the American Revolution. In the French Revolution, which took a vehemently anti-clerical, anti-religious and anti-Christianity attitude. Not only did this result in the execution through guillotine 40,000 innocent people, it also resulted in the Dechristianization campaign - which in turn, provoked the War of the Vendee in the early 1790s. This led to what some historians call genocide in the Vendee against devout Catholics who rose up against the revolution...

[@Nyny.1000]

I think that both ended in bloodshed, not sure he mentioned it but it obviously slavery is completely intertwined with the founding of America. I struggle to see how the founders could sincerely believe the Bible and also sincerely enslave others in the worst way in history at that time.

[@kirkbaker5073]

I don’t know that the aristocrats or the King who fell beneath the blade were innocent and weren’t actually paying for the hell they created for the French people. And the American Revolution isn’t a virtuous one either as it led to the genocide of native Americans. Having a rosy view of American history ignores the actual history and prepares the way for more injustice. American slavery and racism is an example. Failure to address such sin in the present only leads to more sin later.

[@Gossie88]

Loved this. It's always been a conviction of mine to speak truth. I've lost some dear friends to the progressive church movement. I still have hope for them because it blindsided me. These are folks who know God's Word. ❤️ I pray this video reaches who it needs to!

[@tracykarol]

My own mother-in-law, who disagrees with homosexuality, still spends most of her time watching mainstream TV (soap operas, news magazines, I think Oprah ugh and used to watch The View double ugh). About 6-7 years ago she quit going to church, as did her friends, because the preacher gave a sermon against homosexuality. She thought that was horrible because kids were in church and heard it. Now she has great grandkids who will be soon, if the oldest hasn't already, be exposed to transgender teachers and curriculum. Well, maybe not since they're in charter school. But I make a point to tell the oldest, in simple terms, what truth is and what “feelings” are. Girls marry boys. Boys only marry girls. If they decide to do something else, it is wrong. She's 6-1/2 but always asks me about Jesus. She tells me some kids in class don't believe in Him. Her parents (my daughter) are very conservative but aren't believers. Feels like a constant battle.

[@jenrob5938]

Excellent discussion!! So much to think about my responsibility as a Christian. Thank you for your thoughtful message. God bless!!

[@lionoffireministries]

Always campaign along the lines of biblical morality!

[@jonatand2045]

You mean superstition.

[@GradiorDignus]

Good morning thank you Jesus for your servants

[@michelleesparza2611]

What a great subject to cover. I'm very interested and looking forward to watching this discussion.

[@donnaevans2005]

Since we are whole people, and God gives us wisdom, we must listen and do what we can to speak truth. IF those are interconnected with politics than so be it.

[@joshb2286]

This is a much needed conversation and I am so glad you took on the challenge. Thank you so much! Our voices matter. I do believe there's a clear call in Scripture for us to be active and restrain evil and one way we can do that is in politics.

[@jonatand2045]

Just don't be surprised if the superstition gets called out for what it is when it tries to influence the state.

[@carolfalls8466]

I grew up on Lookout Mountain, GA!!! Covenant College used to be a beautiful hotel known as The Castle in the Clouds and in the 1930's entertained people like Al Capone. Look what God did!! He changed it into a place for Christians to be equipped for His service and a place where He is now glorified.

[@moosechuckle]

Great interview Alisa. Political conversion can definitely be isolating, and dividing if not done in a loving proper way.

[@cindyhaines2670]

Thank you for truth. God’s truth is everything. All we need

[@velvetstitching3631]

Excellent video today! Thank you! I like that you didn't avoid difficult questions or give shallow answers! This was very informative! Keep up the great work! Both of you!

[@jlkaucher]

Really appreciate this interview! Thought provoking and challenging. I really loved the “lessen evil” vs. “lesser evil.” Thank you for discussing this topic!

[@heatherwoods5703]

Gah! This was so good! I hung on every word. Thank you! I have felt this for years, but was struggling to articulate it. This series with Alisa Childers has helped along with reading "America's Providential History" and sermons by Pastor Doug Wilson. Thank you how this important conversation. Our home is in heaven, but we are to occupy until Christ comes, not sit on the steps waiting for the Rapture. We have work to do this side of eternity! 💪📖💗

[@saraz9017]

Ask the people locked in their apartments without food in Shanghai if they should get involved with politics 😉

[@sanjeevgig8918]

The 1918 influenza pandemic was the most severe pandemic in recent history. It was caused by an H1N1 virus with genes of avian origin. Although there is not universal consensus regarding where the virus originated, it spread worldwide during 1918-1919. In the United States, it was first identified in military personnel in spring 1918. It is estimated that about 500 million people or one-third of the world’s population became infected with this virus. The number of deaths was estimated to be at least 50 million worldwide with about 675,000 occurring in the United States.

[@reginaford8575]

Great question!!! CCP has resulted this nation to be 91% atheist. Much prayer needed from the Body of Christ. The underground church in China is strong and pushing back the darkness

[@christincommon5496]

@@sanjeevgig8918 there is very good evidence that the 1918 “pandemic” was actually caused by vaccines that we first gave to our military personnel, and then before they came home they started injecting people here. It’s really quite interesting to see what the powers that be have been up to for centuries.

[@sanjeevgig8918]

@@christincommon5496 Thousands of Xtians - who spouted Pslam 19 will protect them - DIED of COVID-19. The "powers that be" are coming after you. Be paranoid. LOL

[@roblangsdorf8758]

​@sanjeevgig8918 I think a decade from now, people will wake and recognize that the shutdown was the wrong solution.

[@jonathancampbell1043]

What a timely message!

[@teresaabernathy460]

“Politics matter because policy matters because people matter.” Allie Beth Stuckey

[@natalierodri]

“The citizen of the kingdom of God will always be the best citizen of the kingdom of man, because he has an allegiance to something higher than the state” 👏

[@laurenkwarren]

This is such a wise and important discussion. Thank you!

[@paulafields3711]

Where politics intersects with faith in God, one cannot but address the intersection

[@kristyleavitt8007]

Awesome and helpful episode! Thank you, Alisa and Jeff!

[@douglaswilliams4053]

I appreciated this discussion very much, and thank you so much for your help in dealing with this difficult topic. However, there is one point on which I would disagree, and I feel it is an important one to bring out. I would suggest that some more thought be given to the statement that ancient Israel was "not really" a theocracy. While it may be true that the founding fathers of our country found many features of a republican government in the ancient nation of Israel, the fact remains that ancient Israel was indeed a theocracy. When you have the Lord Almighty giving specific instructions to Joshua saying, "Israel has sinned; they have transgressed my covenant that I commanded them; they have stolen and lied and put them among their own belongings" then gives them specific instructions on how to deal with it and then says "And the tribe the LORD takes by lot shall come near by clans. And the clan that the LORD takes shall come near by households. And the the household that the LORD takes shall come near man by man." (Joshua 7:10-15) that is a theocracy. In fact, the LORD Himself states that the nation was a theocracy when he speaks with Samuel about their request for a king so they would be like the other nations. In 1 Samuel 8:7 He says, "They have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them." And even later when they had a king, In 1 Samuel 15:2 you have the prophet Samuel telling Saul, "Thus says the LORD of hosts, I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have....." Only God can give such an order as was given to the people of Israel, and only a theocratic nation, acting as God's instrument of justice, could carry it out. The theocracy ended with the Babylonian captivity, and there are no theocracies now. In fact, some of the worst chapters of human history have been when the church has attempted to create one. However the fact that ancient Israel was a theocracy is a truth that is very important in understanding the Old Testament, and we should not disregard that.

[@WDON2010]

great interview, with very helpful insights

[@foghornleghorn262]

When God/Jesus declared Himself to be the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, that was the most politically devisive statement made in human history. Being Biblically political is a must, and is strong evidence that you love your neighbor as yourself.

[@rescueferret8834]

When did Jesus say that?

[@foghornleghorn262]

@@rescueferret8834 Look up these verses in the Bible, and there's your proof. Deuteronomy 10:17, Psalm 136:3, 1 Timothy 6:15, Revelation 17:14, and 19:16, Ezra 7:12, Ezekiel 26:7, and Daniel 2:37.

[@christincommon5496]

@@rescueferret8834 Jesus didn’t say that.

[@decepticonxhunter4850]

Talk about twisting Jesus' words. He was to look forward to the Kingdom that _He_ was bringing. As the psalms say, except the Lord build the house, whoever builds it is doing it all in vain. This world's politics was not built by God, and the ppl who attempt to preserve Satan's world through politics are doing it all in vain.

[@foghornleghorn262]

@@decepticonxhunter4850 So loving your neighbor is political now, not murdering is political, not stealing, not coveting, not bearing false witness, lying, having politicians as gods instead of the One true God. I don't know what Bible you are reading, but it's not God's Word.

[@ikeacha4153]

"A government that can give you everything you want is a government that can take everything you have." Deeeeeep

[@tracykarol]

The Bible tells us not to get overly involved with worldly things. I vote, but avoid social media and so-called traditional news as much as I can. I was a reporter after college (journalism degree), but the media is no longer unbiased.

[@paulafields3711]

In other words, you have a skill set that is desperately needed right now? 🤔 *That would be an interesting dilemma to face, I think.

[@tracykarol]

@@paulafields3711 I left reporting to do PR for law enforcement, but still wrote freelance stories for my old paper. Then after about five years I developed epilepsy. It became severe. I still can’t drive, and I've broke my leg in four places a couple years ago. Have had my share of concussions and back injuries. Now I have young-onset Parkinson’s. I'm not able to work (I've tried many times). I do have a website where I blog, and I used to write heavily about politics before I was saved. It's frustrating to see how bad the media has turned since my college days.

[@elzoog]

I don't think the media was ever unbiased. In the 1970s, there was a CIA operation called COINTELPRO where they infiltrated media to support whatever agenda the CIA had.

[@tracykarol]

@@elzoog That was before my time, so I'm not familiar with it. Of course, by nature most people bring some bias to everything. And I'm sure that's always been true of the media as well. The problem now is that just a handful of companies owns 95+ percent of all media. It used to be close to the opposite. In Journalism school I was taught that the same company could own a newspaper and radio station in one city, but no more (not also TV). There were laws against that. Obviously now most media is liberal (which it tended to be anyway) and pushes that agenda. I was indoctrinated with those ideas at first. But I also worked full time, had three kids, and was paying my own way through college, so I was more practical, I think. It's interesting that you mentioned the CIA connection. They aren't allowed, by law, to use journalism as covers. I'm sure they do, but legally it's taboo. I think Carter initiated that, along with making assassination illegal (of foreign agents, dictators, etc.) Not that anyone abides by it; it's on the books. Or was, that might've changed. I don't keep up. 😚

[@bradmorris5797]

​@@tracykarol I think you've hit the nail on the head, here. The competing interests of moderately-sized national corporations used to keep domestic reporting somewhat balanced, and you could anticipate that they would tow the nationalist American line for overseas features. As you point out, these conglomerates are vastly growing into or being swallowed up by larger multinational conglomerates. Further, the number of companies that pay for advertising time is shrinking. Enormous corporations either _own_ or pay for (or both!) the airtime of all of our major broadcasters, who are effectively beholden to their agenda no matter their viewpoint. There are simply perspectives that media groups _cannot share_ for risk of offending the bigwigs who own them or pay for their air time. It is a big problem right now, and it is accelerating the political divide between the elite and the working class (speaking nothing of the divide in political parties themselves).

[@rahr11]

This was stellar!!

[@FalconOfStorms]

Pick your battles. Don't sacrifice a chance to talk about the Gospel for a chance to talk about taxes.

[@lindajohnson4204]

The most important thing we can do as Christians is to point to God, without corrupting the view of His truth, purity, love. If we "bend" Him to our political agenda, we sin against His truth, and He won't be made into an idol, without judging us as idol makers and destroyers of truth. Just jumping on a political bandwagon, to the point that we become comfortable with our cronies, and despise the truthful, disqualifying claims of the other "side", does not make us on God's side; it makes us liars, unafraid to slander His reputation with unsaved people who need him. It is scattering, not gathering. *Both sides* have valid claims; both sides are liars. Just talking the other guys down, to discredit them, while we build up what we like to believe is our side, again, and look more like Washington every day, is dirty, not pure. All the celebrity preachers may concur with what we're doing, but they have megachurch and KZbin empires to protect. Guys, it is the Whore who commits fornication with kings, and she also rides the Beast, and she's drunk with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. If we really care about righteousness, we will flee this. The whole world system, political or otherwise, right, left and center, is under judgment. God rules from heaven, but this world is run by the Prince of this world (according to Jesus) and the god of this world (according to Paul). When we go to Washington, or some meeting of the CFR or the WEF or the Bilderburgs, etc, do not be deceived: we are dealing with, and going to be dealt with by, the Prince and god of this world. He is going to mind his agenda in the world, especially when it comes to an impure representation of Jesus Christ. He can, and does, use every lie against Him he can get. Either we judge rightly, honest, across the board, as God's word demands, or we judge in hypocrisy.

[@Mrs.C-6721]

I beleive we're in this boat because "the church" fell asleep at the wheel! Nobody wants to get involved ( me including) in all this mess! Especially when we understand prophecy and how the pattern of prophecy is all unfolding. Its exhausting to fight everyday for Truth but yet, Truth keeps us going forward in the fight! To God be the Glory brothers and sisters! 🙌💜✝️

[@Marqu1sALew1s]

My experience shows that, when people say, "We shouldn't be political", it only applies if objective, conservative principles are at risk of taking precedence. If "progressive" (pagan regressive) principles are in play, then there is unlimited license for implementation.

[@reginaford8575]

Very true!

[@jonatand2045]

How are conservative principles objective?

[@decepticonxhunter4850]

Your "experience" is not a barometer for Christian living. In the true Christian's life, everything they believe is based on what is written in the Bible, not somebody's "experience". The Bible shows God telling Christians in Revelation that they will die with this world if they don't leave it.

[@jenyjane24]

Great content and video! Also great intro!!! My son loves the intro music! So I need someone to make a loop of it lol!!!

[@matthewbaugher8155]

Alisa, thank you for the episode. You should definitely check out The Politics of Jesus by John Yoder, or other writings like War, Peace, and Nonresistance by Guy Hershberger.

[@williamkesler2373]

The bottom line is this. Politics influences everything. Therefore, we must be involved and support those who support Christian values. Jesus said to stand up for our faith, and that involves politics. Politicians cannot stop us from sharing the name of Jesus, but they can make it a lot harder. If we can be politically active and prevent such a thing from happening, I see nothing wrong with that.

[@reginaford8575]

Agreed!!

[@sheilacabrera4603]

My first thought in response to the question "How Should Christians Think About and Engage with Politiics?" is to FIRST understand the difference between what is political & what isn't. After Jesus told the Pharisees "Render to Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's" after asking them about who's image and writing was on a coin, THAT'S what He was referring to, in other words KNOW the difference between the Kingdom of this World (which WILL end) & the Kingdom of Heaven which will last for eternity. Christians NEED to know the difference, bc Satan seeks to blur the line between the two so he might deceive, even the elect IF POSSIBLE. YES, we are called to be obedient to whomever God ALLOWS to be in authority, UP TO wherever that authority is in direct opposition to Almighty God's. I believe every Christian alive today (should Christ tarry) will face a line in the sand we CAN NOT CROSS if we wish to remain faithful to Christ's Kingdom. I pray the Lord finds us faithful on that day.

[@showmechrist]

Ill say this about the whole "lesser of two evils" perspective. You are right in your assessment when you say " you should choose a candidate that will lessen evil" but what people fail to realize over and again is there is more to voting then just for a republican or democrat. There are third parties out there that people can vote for. I for one always vote for a third party candidate.

[@chrisgregory1160]

Excellent

[@RainbowMan.]

Beautiful!!! 😍

[@ruthburns7201]

With Early Treatment for covid most covid deaths (85% according to Dr. McCullough) would have been avoided. There would not have been a "pandemic"! Our pastor, for the first time ever, is teaching a series on Christians and Politics at our Wednesday evening Bible Study. I am sending him this conversation. Thank you!

[@rescueferret8834]

34:55 sounds like one of the earliest examples of the @pinecreek theorem :)

[@WilliamBrownGuitar]

At 12:00, Alisa seems to contradict her point that our political views flow naturally from our worldview. Why would she be troubled that the pastor had views on hot button political issues that are affecting almost everyone (including even allowing this pastor the religious freedom to preach his sermon) every day in overwhelmingly powerful and life altering ways?

[@itinerantpatriot1196]

I'm not sure who said it but one of my favorite quotes regarding Rousseau is the one where one guy asks another the following: "If you had a gun with two bullets and Rousseau, Hitler, and Stalin were standing in front of you, what would you do?" The man replied: "I would shoot Rousseau twice." One of the reasons I think Christians are leery of being active in the political arena is they have been cowed into submission. The Dr. is correct. Politics is a religion for many on the left and they have learned that if they shout loud enough and long enough they can force others into silence and that, for them, is victory. The thing is, the current group of left-wing zealots in America have the same kind of passion that American colonists had in the 1750s during The Great Awakening but with the anger and controlled outrage displayed by the young people of Maoist China during the Cultural Revolution. Whichever side has the greatest passion will come out on top, at least in the short-term. And make no mistake. These modern-day Puritans of the left approach politics as a zero-sum game. Too often Christians end up bringing a knife to a gunfight. I'm not recommending violent confrontation or using the same tactics as those on the secular side of the divide. But I don't think sticking our heads in the sand, hoping things will settle down, will do the trick because I've got news for anyone who believes that, it won't. The Rubicon has been crossed, and we are facing what President Regan once described as, "A Time for Choosing." "Liberty lost is gone forever." ― John Adams

[@natedog841]

Hey Alisa! I want to say I have massive respect for you and abundant Thankfulness that you are a sister our family united in Christ! I had one concern tho. You don’t ever really interview people who disagree with you. My one request is that you bring Robin Parry on your podcast. He is a conservative Christian with a supreme heart for the Lord and to preach his word. He also holds views with ultimate reconciliation. I thought it be and honest open minded thing to do since you brought Michael J. McClymond on. I know you definitely look at all sides of the argument, and I think it would be good thing to let your audience do the same! God bless Alisa!

[@christincommon5496]

So are you saying she should put a universalist on her program when we know universalism is heresy? She is responsible for what she puts out there, as God will hold her accountable. This is not a college class, it’s life or death and truth matters.

[@lesnasserden3212]

First Order - Freedom of Religion etc.

[@sandyconrad4405]

Could you please tell me where in the Bible it says "Make more pies"? I read the Bible regularly and I've been convicted heavily about sharing wealth and letting our good government do what the church cannot do or is not willing to do. It's so far from perfect, but it's so much better than nothing.This is a softball interview with someone who supports small government and big business. His political stance is very clear! Here's an important aspect of my church from Isa. 58: 6“Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? 7Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter- when you see the naked, to clothe them, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood? How do we love the same Bible? How did your guest get a PhD???

[@KristinA-nc8my]

Parable of talents

[@roblangsdorf8758]

The war on poverty, which President Lindon Johnson pushed, resulted in an increase in single parent families. Lack of fathers in the home resulted in many young men becoming engaged in criminal activities. This has been a major factor in the black prison population. It also left many Christians saying, "I don't need to concern myself about the poor because my taxes are taking care of them.

[@tinekedijk7385]

Your theology drives your politics.

[@smpittsburgh264]

Have you read The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates by Matthew Trewhella?

[@rescueferret8834]

47:35 "it's unjust if you have laws no one can possibly obey" this makes me think of YHWH/Jesus and the 10 commandments

[@christincommon5496]

What is your point? You do realize the whole reason for them, do you not?

[@rescueferret8834]

@@christincommon5496 is the reason for the 10 commandments for us to obey them or not?

[@christincommon5496]

@@rescueferret8834 in the New Covenant, the commandments are summed up in two commandments: love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. We have God’s law written on our hearts according to Scripture; we no longer need laws written on stone. The commandments were Given to the Israelites because they were rebellious and wicked. They were part of the Law. We are grafted into the vine through faith, as with Abraham.

[@rescueferret8834]

@@christincommon5496 is God's law just the New Covenant now? Is that written on everyone's heart or just the true Christians?

[@christincommon5496]

@@rescueferret8834 there are prophecies in Ezekiel and Jeremiah that God would give us a new heart and that He would write His laws on it and that He would put His Spirit inside us and cause us to obey Him. So, the ones with God’s laws written on our hearts are those with His Holy Spirit.

[@dorianjohnson8480]

It’s not tough being a Christian in today’s culture. Believers don’t understand the power of prayer and we try to use mere arguments to reach people. We forget that Jesus labored in prayer.

[@Mrs.C-6721]

How does one "get ready to suffer" pre-tel?

[@christincommon5496]

Abide in Christ and He will give you protection and wisdom for this hour.

[@DEADn1]

Where do we find John Locke talking about the sinful nature?

[@DoctorGHalweg]

The history of God's people called out of Egypt were a tribal confederacy that became a Theocratic Monarchy as The Nation State of Israel under King Saul, David, Solomon, and so on. Note the difference of the constitutional framers for America who made a REPUBLIC: noun a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives. This functions fundamentally different than a CONFEDERACY: noun a league or alliance, especially of groups or states joined for flourishing like (doing justice, loving mercy, walking humbly, raising children, growing food, etc). Herein lies the conflict between Christian nationalists (theonomy) who long for a Christian confederacy and find themselves living in a republic. Christian nationalists apprising community>individual will conflict with progressives who elevate the position of individual>community as in a republic. As a society becomes more pluralistic there is more difficulty in achieving a harmonious confederacy.

[@berglen100]

Before your reborn then Lock was correct you fail by even being called Greatest but least to least beliefs in heaven, after rebirth then your new that doesn't fail nor remembered sin.

[@chrisbarrett4637]

I am not an USA citizen or resident but how do you respond to the history of slavery and the taking away of first nation land rights, these being mediated if not inspired by the American Constitution?

[@Butterfly-truth]

Those two things you mention were already in play long before the US Constitution not inspired because of them. You have been reading a false understanding of American history. The founding fathers of the constitution were not addressing everything happening in their day that started before they were born. The constitution arose from their struggle with oppression from their original homelands and the nature of human freedom and equality. They were coming out of more oppressive political systems than Europe has now. But that same constitution opened a debate about slavery that led to its abolition and was promoted by people of religious faith. The taking of first nation lands is separate from the constitution not because of it.

[@robertdouglas8895]

Yahweh of the OT was a supporter of the military and wars. Jesus' Father was a turn the other cheek, love thy neighbor as thyself, he who lives by the sword dies by the sword type of Creator. If Christians don't support peace then it won't happen but it will happen when we learn to forgive correctly and demonstrate that is God's Way.

[@camilla6110]

There are not two Gods, only One, YHWH, Who revealed His Name from Genesis to Revelation, Who gave His Name to our Messiah, Yahshua, and Whose Name Messiah Yahshua came in, revealed and proclaimed. There are not two, only One. YHWH.

[@Butterfly-truth]

If you believe that there are two different Gods between the old and new testaments then you believe there are two separate religions. Then why is Judaism today which claims to be based on the OT and rejects Jesus as Messiah not following the god of support for military and wars? You could say this of the modern political Israel but then what about the modern American Jews or other Jews who reject the ways of modern political Israel (which the Orthodox Jews often disagree with)? Or the Jews Hitler murdered who didn't rise up as an army and fight for their lives? Were they supporting the God of the NT by doing what Jesus taught (going as sheep to the slaughter) though rejecting him? If you actually read the OT and NT from cover to cover you would know the same Creator in Genesis is who Jesus is claiming as his Father and the same OT prophecies predict his death and resurrection. Jesus explains that Moses allowed divorce because "your hearts were hard, but it was not so from the beginning." Therefore Jesus is pointing out that human nature limited what God could reveal through the Mosaic law. When God sent his son in the flesh, he was able to reveal who He was from the beginning of time. You're using academic, man-made arguments that interpret "two gods" view. Jesus never did this with the OT. If he thought his father wasn't the God of the OT he would have said so from the start. Instead he refers to the OT constantly to show he was in fact from the God who said to Moses "I Am that I Am."

[@camilla6110]

@@Butterfly-truth Ahmein! The Father revealed His Name from Genesis to Revelation. This argument of “two gods” is a satanic doctrine and is leading many astray. There is only One El--YHWH!

[@areuaware6842]

The government and religion are one.

[@chardo24]

John Locke was a Progressive Christian because just like Newton overthrew the doctrine of providence by discovering the laws of nature, so Locke overthrew the biblical doctrines of sin and a fallen humanity by discovering that human beings are morally innocent tabulae rasae rather than depraved sinners predisposed to sin and error.

[@chardo24]

@@christincommon5496 You are missing the point. Locke did not overthrow a truth. He overthrow a lie.

[@allanvanderley193]

. Hi-ALISA; This seems to be like your continuing pursuit of unending and unrelenting dedication to the biblical ‘truth’ to construct a firm and well established point-of-view that; will assure your ‘righteous’ interpretation of the Bible based upon the ‘Word of God’ as represented in the Life,Morals,Teachings,and Philosophy of Jesus-of-Nazareth. You have indeed become quite facile at debate and argumentation of online media. This segment episode of your political framing through your interview of Dr.Jeff-Myers, in addition to your earlier monologue episode of using post-First-century ‘Church-fathers’ and ‘Saints’ ‘penal-substitutionary-atonement’ theological apologetics; seems to be the continued search to construct an ‘air-tight’ rational for ‘historically’ correct appeals-to-authority. Many times in past response as a genuine reply to your podcasts and postings, I have pointed-out the linguistical limitations of the English language that effects cognitive thought. That is English is a dumbed-down common-global lingua-franca that only uses five-percent of the human lexicon to convey up to 90-% of intended communicated meaning. And, now that you have included and conflated politics into a ‘global’ biblical view, I thought it may be helpful to repost a multi-PART posting as to how the biblical narrative ‘historically’ transposed to the American political consciousness. But, first; it may be helpful to see the use of the biblical-narrative as an ‘inerrant’ and ‘infallible’ ‘Word-of-God’ from a more objective point of view as follows: … If; the Bible is inerrant, then; we can "pick-and-choose", as much as if it were not ‘inerrant’. For, example, if; we want to justify violence against enemies - as in the ‘just-war’ and ‘just-punishment’, then; we can pick the parts in the Old-Testament where God Commands violence against ‘enemies’; instead of Jesus’ Commands of loving our enemies and forgiving our trespasses. - Saying; ” ‘The-Word-of-God-says’ and ‘that's-that’ - was historically what we have done throughout history.” An ‘inerrant’ Bible allows us to defend any action in the name of the "Bible-says". But if we elevate Jesus as the ‘Word-of-God’, we can't justify as much. We actually have to start allowing a transformation into love. It becomes a much more narrow road. Enter through the ‘narrow-gate’ - that is the way of Jesus, not “the Bible”, He taught us everything about how to die for one-another, and, He taught us nothing about how to kill one-another. This ignorance and roguery of manipulation can be carried to the ‘many-worlds’ denominational polity point-of-view: Would we like a feminist Bible ? We can get that, using only the Bible. Would we like a misogynistic Bible? We can get that, using only the Bible. Would we like; a gay-affirming Bible ? a gay-bashing Bible ? an anti-slavery Bible ? a pro-slavery Bible ? a pro-child sacrifice Bible ? an anti-child sacrifice Bible ? a penal-substitutionary-atonement Bible ? an anti-penal-substitutionary-atonement Bible ? an angry, violent God Bible ? an eternal-tormenting-Hell Bible ? a loving, universally forgiving, non-violent God Bible ? If we are clever enough, if we have many whom agree with us, we can paint any portrait of God we desire, we only need to ever dip into the pallet of prose and poetry of the Bible to do so. The raw materials are there for us to craft any ‘image’ of the Divine we like, therefore; justifying any action or attitude - God is so ‘mysterious’ and ‘beyond our understanding’ in that way. One's image of choice contradicts another's, and both are able to craft our respective images without ever having to go "against the Bible”. Both will have piles of proof-texts to help prove our points with many clever smart wise teachers whom we agree with; neither having to take them out of contexts. Humans, left to interpret the Bible on our own, will do so to own hurt, as we have seen thousands of times throughout ‘history’. Over 100-million First-nation native-Americans were liquidated and removed from our lands as part of our holy ‘Manifest-Destiny’ to rule the country and kidnap and enslave millions more to allow the ‘righteous’ the rights and privileges to sanctified ‘moral-laws’. But ‘real’ christians have responsibility, not only simply reading inherent truthfulness, but, also, reading every Statement, Parable, Prediction, Prophesy, Exhortation and Command in light of the Life, Morals, Teachings, and Philosophy of the One upon Whom we confer the title of the anointed “Christ”. We may be able to "prove" that God is violent using the ‘Bible’, but, we will never be able to ‘prove’ such a thing using ‘Jesus Christ’. The Christian, by definition, takes upon themselves the responsibility of using the interpretive lens of Jesus the Christ when looking at Scripture. If we choose to do otherwise we will end up as one more group using their sacred text to create the God that we simply mirror back to us our own desires and proclivities, proving to us that we were right all along,[Marvin Fitts]. … Continued

[@allanvanderley193]

~ 1 ... I must confess my response seems quite eclectic and disjointed. That’s all on me,and not the audience. My journal is filled with notes and snippets of online conversations and citations, and only really make sense if I can construct a properly formed thesis or treatise with citations. Unfortunately, I am still in the research,recording,and fleshing-out stage. But, quite rightly in the sense that, if; I understand it well enough, then; I should be able to explain it in simple English. Such a process of parsing for me is the real challenge since the study of theology and religion is so cryptic by intent by its authors. But; I can share with you an online dialogue previous that ‘flesh-out’ my above rambled postings. ... Before actually posting previous related conversations. I summarise the conclusions of the matter in this preamble in ‘plain-language’ to ‘plain-people’; 1.] Jesus-of-Nazareth did not die as a Human-sacrifice to ‘atone’* for our ‘sins’. 2.] Jesus simply taught the intent and spirit of the Law through the example of His Life,Morals,Teachings and Philosophy. That is; His ‘New’ Law by ‘Commandment’ created Mankind in the Image of God in a spiritual rebirth as if being ‘Born-Again’. ... 1

[@allanvanderley193]

~ 2 ... I love the incongruity and cognitive dissonance in the biblical narrative of the Old-Testament. God’s ‘chosen’ people were given constitutional laws as a nation of how to live a moral life as a community, and, then; immediately breaks half of the Commandments they were just given - ‘do not murder’;’do not commit adultery’;’do not steal’;’do not lie’;’do not covet’. In theology this is known as ‘predestination’ Old-testament. Which of course was carried over to post First-century ‘christendom’ by the military-industrial complex Roman Empire by the Fourth-century as ‘Augustinian’ New Testament ‘Christian’ ‘Predestination’ allowing for all the ‘religious’ atrocities up until the ‘restoration’ of ‘freewill’,14-th.century;’Renaissance’,15-th.century;’Reformation’,16-th.century;’Enlightenment’,17-th.century;’Awakening’,18-th.century. All this began with the ‘Magna-Carta’,1215, ‘MONSTRANCE’. The ‘REMONSTRANCE’,[‘re’+’monstrance’],1610, reintroduced Freewill First-century theology upon the scriptoriums shifting to the printing-press,[their ‘internet’]. This was picked up by BARUCH-SPINOZA,1670,’Theological-Political-Treatise’; THOMAS-JEFFERSON,1820,’The-Life-Morals-Teachings-&-Philosophy-of-JESUS-of-Nazareth’; and ALBERT-EINSTEIN,1929. JEFFERSON wrote,finding the Words of Jesus was like finding ‘diamonds-in-a-dung-hill’. He removed the ‘dross’ of manipulations of ‘ignorance’ and ‘roguery’ of men. EINSTEIN simply said in a letter to a Rabbi,he merely believed in the ‘God’ of SPINOZA. I just responded at length on a theological group page,explaining the shift when an atheist trolled on a secularist group page about ‘Black People’ and the ‘blessings’ of ‘christianity’. I couldn’t resist the bait so I responded. Since, I’m not afraid to bore the crap out of my close personal Facebook friends. I attach a full text following for your amusement: ... Secular Politics, ANABAPTIST COLLECTIVE/ A-MENNONERDS GROUP: American-Christian Historical-Narrative - How-Black Americans became-christians July28,2020 Facebook-web-page. ... Arnold Neufeldt-Fast deeply convicts me to share what little I know of the American Mennonite Anabaptist historical narrative. I am neither a theologian nor a historian of any note like Mr.Neufeldt-Fast. I am however a deeply convicted ‘christian’ having studied the biblical narrative as an itinerant Gideon practitioner. Most recently as of 2014 and more intensely with the outbreak and shelter-in-place pandemic,I have been engaged in deep rhetorical conversations with a broad range of theological,ideological, and philosophical scientific communities - even secularists and atheists. With the World-Wide-Web online community and online resource network it is impossible not to find substantive material consideration. Although,one needs to find constant discernment in disingenuous argumentation and trolling. In a recent exchange with a anti-religion secularist,[Secular-Politics],I responded to the question of Black people and Christianity. As I responded,I touched upon many of the themes that touches the consciousness of the American historical narrative as it relates to Mennonite doctrine and Anabaptism in general. More specifically, having emigrated from Amsterdam with Frisian ancestral roots,I have been tracking the ‘christian’ narrative as it migrated from the First-century Judeo-christian diaspora to Northern Europe,the mission track of Andrew bar’Jona,Peter’s brother. Although, I have yet not constructed a formal thesis with citations,I have verified some pieces with the examination of the historical and archæological record. Please accept this rough and academically unverified ramble. Feel free to correct any fallacy and inaccuracies,including linguistical irregularities. ... + ... Question, July28,2020 ‘At what point did the Christian religion become a "blessing" for black people’? ... 2

[@allanvanderley193]

~ 3 ... Reply, ALLAN-E.VANDERLEY ... [picture-note,5] ... After the CIVIL-WAR the Black Baptist churches were founded and eventually led to Reverend Martin Luther-King,Jr. leading the non-violent Civil Rights Movement. The original ‘freewill’ First Baptist Church was founded in Providence,Rhode Island,1638. This ‘christian’ theology was based on personal responsibility and ‘clarity-of-conscience’. Roger Williams bought the land with a deed signed by the local Sachem - a head of state among local tribes and Chiefs. Williams had studied the Baptist writings of Reverend John Smyth and Thomas Helwys whom studied with the Mennonite Anabaptists,1609,Amsterdam, Province of Holland. The ‘Southern-‘predestination’-Baptists’ seceded from the New England Baptists over the issue of slavery,1845. The Black Baptists understood the Freewill ‘general’ Baptist theology as U.S.President-Abraham Lincoln,POTUS-No.16 did,whom was raised in a ‘General’ Freewill Baptist household. Since he grew up in the Midwest frontier territory,the theology no doubt was closely associated with the Amish,Mennonites,and Anabaptist non-violent Christian theology whom adopted the Mennonite Confession,1632.[1] Since, he was well read and self-made he was probably aware of the purer form of Christian Mennonitism known as ‘Remonstrance’,1657,’Flushing-Remonstrance’,[3] ’all-men-are-created-equal’ declaration,which was heavily used in U.S.Constitutional Law. ... 3

[@allanvanderley193]

~ 4 ... Since, as a Remonstrant Mennonite of Frisian heritage,my familiarity with a piece of our post Christendom,[post-Catholic Church-state] theology is not measurable on a quantifiable historical or empirical scale, but, rather; our anabaptist roots are on a continuum of evolving faith and thought - the ‘many-mansions-in-the-Father’s-House’. It seems, our Amish cousins are in particular identified with a post Christendom Anabaptism that identifies with a particular agrarian community. They found a theology that fit into a particular time of enlightenment and place in history that can be firmly transfixed as being biblically and culturally defined in human spiritual development terms,16-th.century ‘plain-folk’. The people of faith known as ‘plain-folk-in-plain-clothes-serving-ordinary-lives’ can literally apply to an Amish ethno sect or figuratively apply to a non-violent,separation-of-church-state,freewill,born-again Christian,14-th.century,Brethren-of-the-Common-Life,’Modern-Devotion movement’; all the way to the non-violent,separation of church-state,freewill,born-again Christian humanist,19-th.century; Remonstrant, Groningers,United Provinces of Northern Europe; Transcendentalists,’New-Thought’ Second-Awakening movement,New England,United States of America,[see,Ralph-Waldo-Emerson,Henry-David-Thoreau,Walt-Whitman]. The modern Freewill Remonstrant Church in the United Provinces of the Netherlands received official recognition,1795 with its home congregation residing in the City of Rotterdam,South-Holland. As of 2016,members and associated "friends", exist in more than 40-congregations throughout the Netherlands, and one congregation remains in the city of Friedrichstadt, northern Germany,[as of 2008]. The Freewill Remonstrant Brotherhood of Holland confers fellowship with the European Liberal Protestant Network. As a full charter member of the World Alliance of Reformed Churches, Freewill Remonstrants frequently identify as denominational Unitarians. Freewill Remonstrants place emphasis on ‘personal faith’ and not in formal agreement with one another on questions of belief and social issues. We consider the teachings of Jesus-of-Nazareth cannot be separated from daily true Freewill choices for a life working together toward world peace and justice. The Freewill Remonstrant Church is a community of faith which, rooted in the Gospel message of Jesus-The-Christ - as true to its principle of freedom and tolerance, seeking to worship God by serving others with a simple ‘yes’ - requiring no formal ‘vows’. In addition to the Statement of Principle, most contemporary Freewill Remonstrants write our own professed declaration of faith, when becoming a member of the community. The Freewill Brotherhood community did formally express their faith three times in the past as an open shared confessional statement,[1621;1940;and 2006]. However; Freewill Remonstrance, being a non-creedal vow Freewill denomination, considers no confession of faith as canonical authority as a pledged ‘vow’. Concepts of,IMAGE,EQUITY,& CHURCH-CONSCIOUSNESS renders RELIGIONS as inconsequential, manifesting in a hidden Christian community in ‘plain’ sight. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong or made errors of omission. With attachments: ... 4

[@allanvanderley193]

~ 5 ... I can understand my points of observation are outside the common scope of Christian discussion. As a full explanatory,I’m afraid I will need to attach multiple PARTS,since I am not smart enough nor patient enough to write a shorter response,being a man of little brain. It reads as follows, attachments: ... Christendom, EXPLANATORY General-rhetorical ... To provide a genuine response, allow me to post two distinct parts. Since the rhetoric, debate, ideology and argumentation conflates and confuses current understanding; The first part is on the theology of the life, morals, teachings, and philosophy of Jesus-of-Nazareth. The second part is on the ideology of religion, politics and governance. . ... PART-ONE ... FREEWILL/ PREDESTINATION The use of the term 'Christian' in this context seems misleading and used rather loosely. To explain need not be lengthy: Simply put the theology of Jesus-of-Nazareth can easily be discerned into two categories; First-the-theology-of-'Predestination', the Second-the-theology-of-'Freewill'. The First-century Christendom was a Freewill-church up until the Roman Empire remade the church into a Predestination ‘religion’ out of the military-industrial complex,c.e.,325. This was codified by Saint Augustine,Bishop of Hippo, Africa,c.e.,400. The Freewill doctrine was restored during the 'reformation',16-th.century when the biblical narrative became a readily available publication by the scriptoriums’ transition to the printing press,15-th.century. Mostly through the proto-Baptists, Remonstrants, and Collegiants advocating Freewill theology and separation of First-century church and state. The Catholic Church did not update its Predestination theology until the Second Vatican Council,1965,'Dignitatis Humanæ'. Evangelical-christians,like the ones that support Trump still subscribe to the Predestination doctrine as redefined by John Calvin,known as 'Calvinism',1619,’The-Five-Canons-of-Dort’. Calvin was the first protestant charlatan, originally a French-catholic,whom saw the opportunity to craft his own 'religious' following. In the United States, in general, there are these two distinctions to all other denominational Christian religions. Even within a denomination like the Baptist churches these two distinctions apply: The "General"-freewill-baptists, generally New England Baptists founded by the 'First-Baptist-Church',Providence,Rhode-Island,1638, and the "Particular"-predestination-baptists, particularly the Southern Baptist founded,1845 over the issue of slavery. Abraham Lincoln was raised in a General-baptist household. [To be clear, it ain't complicated.] END-PART-ONE ... 5

[@lorainabogado]

How many unborn babies were murdered in the great flood?

[@sms4hou676]

You mean died? A lot. And more than that every day now. Why would that event be priveledged over any other ? Especiallly now with so many people. 170,000 + people die every day. The point is babies are people too.

[@sanjeevgig8918]

@@sms4hou676 Yaheweh/Jesus commanded babies be drowned in the flood, the Amalekites babies be killed, the Canaanite babies be killed, the Midianites boy babies be killed, the Egyptian firstborn babies be killed and the babies in Sodom and Gomorrah be killed.

[@sms4hou676]

@@sanjeevgig8918 and?

[@sanjeevgig8918]

@@sms4hou676 Remember all that when you are singing some crappy worship song like "Good Good Father" LOL

[@timothydavidson8457]

This guy has a staunch political position that pleases him and supports the comforts of his lifestyle. Conversation on economics are screwed and flawed. In his mind only his reality is plausible. He also has a poor understanding of the scriptures. Otherwise, he would quote them accurately. All of his references are of old white men that share his views.

[@christincommon5496]

Oh good, a race-baiting comment. That’s what we were all hoping for.

[@timothydavidson8457]

@@christincommon5496 its only race baiting because it does not align with your version of the truth

[@christincommon5496]

@@timothydavidson8457 oh, ok

[@lorainabogado]

People don’t believe this silliness anymore. That’s why they are leaving your churches.

[@cheffroggy]

There were over 1,300 people at my church on Easter Sunday. My church is over 100 years old and this is the largest crowd we've ever had.

[@lorainabogado]

@@cheffroggy how many churches closed last year?

[@cheffroggy]

@@lorainabogado And how many were built?

[@lauriegermaine6506]

People are leaving churches that aren't taking a stand for biblical values. That capitulate to society. That are hypocritical and wishy-washy and approach the Bible like its contents are up for debate. Churches with solid, biblically-minded, strong, devout believers are growing. The other thing going on is God is separating the wheat from the chaff, the sheep from the goats. He's purging His Church of the fakers and ungodly and making us ready for when Jesus comes to collect us.

[@JenDeVoreRichter]

There are approximately 2.38 BILLION Christians in the world. To say “people” don’t believe is false. But, in a fallen world spinning out of control because they’re rebelling from God it would be expected to lose some. That doesn’t change anything about Jesus. I also think it’s great that you’re on this channel engaging. I used to think like you do and God opened my eyes at the age of 41. You’re welcome here.