Should Christians get involved with politics? with Os Guinness

In the second video of our 2 part series on politics, Os Guinness talks about how having a biblical worldview should make Christians actively engaged in politics.
Support us on Patreon:
www.patreon.com/alisachilders
To order Alisa’s book, “Another Gospel”: www.alisachilders.com/another...
This video is not sponsored. Product links are affiliate links which means if you buy something we'll receive a small commission.
For all links to Alisa’s recommended reading, podcast studio gear and other items,
visit the Alisa Childers Amazon Store at www.amazon.com/shop/alisachil...

[@clasen2013]

What a privilege to hear the wisdom of Os Guinness! Alisa, thank you so much for having amazing guests like Os Guinness and Rosaria Butterfield, earlier this week. I would have never been able to hear them if not for you. You've exposed me to so many great Christians who have strengthened my own faith. May God bless you as you seek to speak truth into the lives of Christians. I appreciate you and your ministry. ❤✝️🙏

[@sharongrondziak6161]

Excellent!!!! I have been very burden and conflicted over this topic. And I often stand alone with my christian friends. I appreciate hearing from others who can relay ideas biblically and civilly.

[@shieldoffaith8798]

I very much feel the same. And I love our country and praise Jesus for our land and nation; however, I’ve noticed some of my family members that go to liberty church seem more concerned with saving America than winning souls for Christ. Some of these family members believe people are born gay and laugh at the lost. It turns me away honestly. And sadly some of them don’t want to talk about Jesus at all… just Brandon. I love my country and think we should be thankful for USA but what do you do when country trumps Jesus and saving souls??

[@Grow-with-Wellness]

Alisa, this is one of the best podcasts I've heard in a long time. OS Guinness is a logical, deep thinker who is well read and well educated. He can articulate truth clearly and graciously but pointedly call out where Christians are being deceived and where Christians have lacked being educated on current issues and the history of current issues. Thank you for this podcast. I know it's a fine balance of not turning your show into a political platform, but I really appreciate that you are not neglecting this area of culture, but instead helping us think deeply and well as Christians about the role of politics in our lives. You are a gift. Thank you.

[@stephanieanderson4106]

This was excellent. Thank you, Alisa. He's such a perceptive and wise man.

[@heatherwoods5703]

Gah! No words. That was so good. I need to just start it over and watch it again! Thank you! 💗

[@heathersheartco]

I don’t think I’ve ever heard this guy talk before but I’m certainly familiar with his name !! I thought he’d already passed way. I’m very glad he’s still alive !!!! He’s amazing. This is seriously one of the best podcasts I’ve heard in a very long time/

[@frepar]

Alisa is so graceful.

[@kristanann8045]

I’m so thankful for you Alisa🙏🏻

[@gregroschat8425]

Thank you for this informative and encouraging interview! Many people need to hear this ,will be sharing

[@91Lennard]

Alisa's KZbin career peaked with this interview lol, you can tell by her initial excitement. Os is always great.

[@GodlessGubment]

She is a leach

[@MB65Sax]

By far, best episode I have heard in a long time. Full of grace and truth

[@johnwalker4221]

How absolutely clarifying! Thank you, and may God bless you and your work, Alisa!

[@lynnadams9478]

The tragity of history, is according to my History Teacher Mr. Lasher is: THE ONLY THING MAN LEARNS FROM HISTORY IS THAT MAN LEARNS NOTHING FROM HISTORY !

[@melissaabbey]

It’s because it’s heavily covered up and it’s all lies. The history we are taught is NOT reality. All lies. Same people running the show for thousands of years and they rewrite history to keep their agenda going - all evil Phonecians/Canaanites/Jesuits - all same ones from the Bible.

[@lynnadams9478]

@@melissaabbey thank you 🤗, that does shine a new light on the subject

[@kimzabel2539]

Thank you so much, Alisa. This was so powerful, so enlightening.

[@-RM-]

You know you have faithful followers when your video gets 9 likes before it even starts. 🙂

[@richardgoossen8119]

Hearing this perspective has been an great help in clearing the air to me on how to face these extremely important issues of our time !!! Standing on Truth No Matter What we are facing is so Important !!! My Prayer is focused on the truth of Christ to be well know by the majority. In order to bring back the Morality this world so desperately needs !!! How else can we effectively make a difference ?

[@frameshifted1999]

Excellent conversation. Thank you, cheers

[@grahamcass6692]

Extremely interesting and informative. Thank you.

[@ruraltheologian1364]

Such very timely topics! Very neat video, so glad I stumbled upon your page- excited to check out your podcast as well! You are such an inspiration for my own KZbin channel. Great work!

[@eduardoalvarez1099]

What a amazing interview! Thanks Alisa for generate this discussion. God Bless America.

[@tulsajhawk]

Wow what an excellent interview!! Thank you!

[@debbieoneal3744]

Thank you both for giving us a voice

[@reasonsforroots6958]

“The Call” is one of my favorite as well! Great video

[@annapobst]

I'm relistening to this again. So good

[@mercyriverewashington1075]

This is so helpful right now! As Christians, we are not being scripturally & soundly taught how to interact with culture & politics, nor do we really understand how history intersects with all that is going on. We sense that things are way off base, try to research online to find truth & then recognize some of it, but like you discussed, there are Christian leaders who are supporting things that have Marxist roots & global intentions. This is confusing the whole church in America. We are realizing how important that keeping our eyes on Jesus is & staying in His Word, listening to His voice. I am sharing this with family & friends. Thank you Alisa & thank you Os Guinness for taking the time & effort to discuss this topic. God's best to you! From Eastern Washington.

[@shieldoffaith8798]

I feel the same. It seems like the pendulum has swung to both sides. Thankfully I found a church that is not Marxist and our pastor reads the context of the scriptures and doesn’t water anything down or throw in his own interpretation. We love our country. On the other side, I have family members that go to a liberty church and it seems all they care about is saving America and not winning souls for Christ. Very sad but they don’t want to talk about Jesus and believe people are born gay. There is much pride and no mercy or sorrow for the lost on their part

[@ruthbrennan6968]

Excellent! Thank you for bringing such helpful and edifying discussions to us Alisa. I appreciate your research which shows in relevant questions and also how you let your guests speak.

[@torsto2755]

I agree!

[@classikate]

What a great interview and profound man. Thank you for this.

[@kellygabriele2084]

Thank you Alisa!

[@davidrae195]

Thank you for the deep history and insight on this subject.

[@Mari70987]

This was so inspiring. Thank you. God bless.

[@interiorattack]

Getting to this late, but as always Alisa you knocked it out of the park.

[@dearally4787]

I’m loving Os Guinness on Jordan Peterson’s Exodus series! His mind and communication skills are compelling.

[@ThisiswhatIdoforaliving]

Well said. Thank you so much!👌🏿

[@melissazabower339]

Wow. I was doing other things while listening, so I was distracted, but there is so much good stuff here i'll have to listen again.

[@aletheiaquest]

Respectfully, very respectfully, from a good, pure place in my heart...if I were to see Alisa in person and she were any more beautiful than she appears online, I'm quite certain my heart would give out. :-) Such beauty. And, such great content.

[@jambox9919]

This is so good. I wish I knew history better. I learned so much from this discussion

[@travismaples4388]

Very helpful

[@nl2766]

Excellent!

[@robertcampbell9864]

I understand and agree with his criticism of the "radical left" but I have never heard him discuss the "radical right".

[@shieldoffaith8798]

Are you referring to love of country over love for Jesus?

[@RainbowMan.]

Beautiful!! 😍

[@theadirondackkids4734]

Awesome.

[@annapobst]

Thank you so much for both talks on politics and Christianity 🙏🙏🙏 This is so important, valuable and helpful!!

[@Brotheral-pb1oj]

The only thing that truly matters in this world is that the gospel be preached for the salvation of souls!

[@robertdages5392]

My 1st time listening to Oz

[@threelilies9453]

What about the long march going through our churches? Is that something we should consider?

[@torsto2755]

I think so, it's hurting us.

[@citytrees1752]

wow, the history of the American revolution coming out of biblical truths is critical for people to understand right now

[@bindilouwho3338]

Excellent interview. The only issue I have is with the idea that anyone identifying as Christian needs to vote and be politically active (as far as having a significant effect on the culture). We know that only 6% of those who identify as Christian are actually Christian (hold a Biblical worldview). Therefore, 94% of "Christians" are more likely to vote liberal (against a Biblical worldview). In order for Biblical Christians to make a difference in our country, we need to clean up our churches, stand up against false teachers (including our favorite authors, lecturers, famous preachers, musicans, etc.). We're all over the place theologically. We can't really make a difference politically if we're not on the same page Biblically. And unlike the Jewish people, Christians are seen as oppressors, not an oppressed group - especially in the U.S., so I'm struggling with his comparison to how much influence the Jewish people have in this country as opposed to the "Christian" people in this country. Groups who are identified as oppressed have a much bigger influence than those identified as oppressor.

[@Grow-with-Wellness]

"I am an unashamed evangelical." Amen.

[@DavidEmailman]

It is our civic duty to be involved. It is our responsibility as Christians to vote and more. Ask Charlie Kirk, Pastor Adrian Rogers, Dr Tony Evans, Hal Lindsey and TD Jakes. We must take a stand.

[@willsoonmarc8711]

I liked it because I know I will before I watch it

[@danmauney8394]

I am always grateful for your apologetics, and the role Christians in politics. I am interested in hearing your thoughts on the Kristin du Mez book, "Jesus and John Wayne. " Thanks for your defense of the Bible as God's word for mankind.

[@FalconOfStorms]

"That's good" - Alisa Childers, 2022

[@verimythpictures9755]

Is there a transcript available for this?

[@robertdouglas8895]

"Judge not by the appearance but judge by righteous judgment." Racial differences are nothing, according to Jesus. It doesn't exist if you see us as spirit. John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit .,

[@baronreed8131]

Politics is rarely the problem, but it's the politicians that more often than not create the problems.

[@natedog841]

Hey Alisa! I want to say I have massive respect for you and abundant Thankfulness that you are a sister our family united in Christ! I had one concern tho. You don’t ever really interview people who disagree with you. My one request is that you bring Robin Parry on your podcast. He is a conservative Christian with a supreme heart for the Lord and to preach his word. He also holds views with ultimate reconciliation. I thought it be and honest open minded thing to do since you brought Michael J. McClymond on. I know you definitely look at all sides of the argument, and I think it would be good thing to let your audience do the same! God bless Alisa!

[@Mrs.C-6721]

Blessings! She was part of the documentary "American Gospel" you should really see that. There's 2 parts. 2 completely different views of God and His Word.

[@SuperSpeedyToo]

Thank you so much for your willingness to discuss politics, especially Mr. Trump. Not that long ago I was so confused by Christians voting for him. I realized the 'evangelicals' weren't happy with Trump but did like his platform. I still couldn't understand why Christians would elect someone with his character. After listening to this interview I'm honestly relieved I'm not the only one with these views. Before it seemed I might be missing something since I fell in a real minority. I'm not so lonely now... so thank you. Also Thank you for talking the top up at a. It seems that very few people are discussing current events. You have to be incredibly brave but it's just what I needed. Thank you again!!

[@Mrs.C-6721]

Blessings! I love President Trump, I don't judge him on his past I judge him on his love for this country, his ability to lead with the proper perspective and "the American way" He's not a politician... He grew up in New York and knows All the schemes of the left. All "those" people loved him before he ran for President. Extreme left, as this interview shows never succeeds. We're living in a battle for One World Government as the Bible prophesied. Mr. Trump knows that. If you research all his administration accomplished, you'll be pleasantly surprised. He helped so many organizations and issues that the last 10 president's couldn't accomplish. The essence of all this is Jesus Christ is returning and God blessed the USA with Grace as no other nation in history. We should honor that and any leader that puts America first. God bless

[@Mrs.C-6721]

He had a counsel of full on evangelicals from every part of the countty. He spoke truth and the left went ballistic! He worked tirelessly for our beautiful land... Is he perfect? Of course not! We all need God's grace and those of us who seek Him will find Him.

[@SuperSpeedyToo]

@@Mrs.C-6721 What good things did he do?

[@Mrs.C-6721]

@@SuperSpeedyToo Blessings! America First Moral Code. President Trump was the first President to walk in March for Life. He honored life!! 1st president to honor Israel in the way of Jerusalem being the capital. Bringing Israel's enemies to the table to make peace...first president ever!! Bringibg prayer back in schools. Allowing America to be resource independent. Showing China and All the dictators he's not playing games. Showing the world how deeply corrupt Washington really is and what the swamp monsters ( excuse my aggression) are capable of doing. Secured our borders. Allowed water to be set free for our farmers. Allowed the fishermen in Maine and such to fish deeper waters. The regime before him cut the fishermen off!! Gas and goods were affordable. Was bringing prison reform. Helped black colleges with financing abilities to make them self reliable. Surrounded himself with Pastors and leaders from around the nation to have round table talks. He had round tables with Everybody!! Supporting our police...loved our Veterans and honored them. Helping our armed forces and military equipment. His children are of impeccable standards and loves his family to the core. Most importantly HE IS NOT A GLOBALIST!! He's not perfect. He's not the Savior. He's just a man fighting for my beautiful America!! God bless America!! ✝️💜🙏 He loves America deeply.

[@SuperSpeedyToo]

@@Mrs.C-6721 Thank you for sharing this list. With the right and left on opposite planets it takes real effort to understand what each is saying and then try to determine the relivant truth. Thanks again for helping me understand your position.

[@GodlessGubment]

Thou shalt not own people as property. How difficult is it?

[@SMRogers]

Justice in the gospels is coupled with mercy. The social justice of today have no mercy it is oppressed and oppressor which furthers a dangerous direction in our view of life.

[@SMRogers]

I believe labelling is lazy thinking at its best and an attempt to marginalize anyone who doesn’t subscribe to one’s boiler plate rhetoric

[@Remi-bt7tp]

Would love to see this guy and James Lindsay team up and debate some of these woke radical leftists.

[@GERALD9912]

The French enlightenment, freemasonry, the trouble is most of the founding fathers of the USA were also freemasons, a gift from the French freemasons the Statue of Liberty, stands for liberty and freedom from God. A humble heart and a contrite spirit are far more important, than knowledge gained from man.❤

[@foghornleghorn262]

Guinness beer and Christianity can mix, but on a more serious note, we are a very new country, and we weren't "slow" in getting rid of slavery. Rome had slaves for much, much longer than we did.

[@billroberts7586]

Unlike the Romans, we were a country consisting largely of Christians who had "all men are created equal" written into our Declaration of Independence. And it took a bloody Civil war to finally resolve the issue of chattel slavery in this country. And then another 100 years to get to some basic level of civil rights and equality codified in our laws. I understand what you were trying to say. Some food for thought: for the ones in chains it probably felt deathly slow.

[@nicoleparsons7630]

@@billroberts7586 so well stated. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[@foghornleghorn262]

@@billroberts7586 Slave holding Southerners were not Christians, and them holding slaves is not on us. God will repay, and just remember, it was the real abolitionist Christians who pushed to free the slaves. You cannot paint all Christians with this broad of a brush.

[@billroberts7586]

@@foghornleghorn262 I am a Christian. I stand by what I said that as a nation theoretically full of Christians we could have and should have done much better. I understand that you and modern Christians aren't responsible for slavery. My point is that our slave-holding legacy is shameful and when it comes to comparing us to the Romans, two things can be bad at the same time.

[@joshuah.9687]

The longevity of one country's sin does not negate the "slow" time frame to self-correct of a different country's sin. If it took 5 years to correct America's slavery/racism, that would have taken far to long. And yes, a judgment of time is subjective, but I don't think Mr. Guinness was wrong in his evaluation here.

[@rocketscientisttoo]

If you do not learn from history you are doomed to repeat it.

[@NewCreationInChrist896]

Seek the kingdom of the living true God and His righteousness, not idols of this world full of distractions from God's will. 1 John 3:7 👑 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

[@pierreferguson5257]

Matthew 5:23 "Therefore if you bring your gift [Matthew 15:5-9; Mark 7:11-13] to the altar, and there remember that your brother [1 Thessalonians 4:6] has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny." Luke 12:57 “Yes, and why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right? 58 When you go with your adversary to the magistrate, make every effort along the way to settle with him, lest he drag you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. 59 I tell you, you shall not depart from there till you have paid the very last mite.”

[@FalconOfStorms]

when were you wheb roe v wade was kill i was sat at home eating bible when kavnaugh call "roe v wade is kill" "yes"

[@tedtuttle6527]

Excellent doesn't give this video it's due JUSTICE.

[@pierreferguson5257]

Mount Sinai (Judaism)? or Mount Zion (Christianity)? - Galatians 4:24-26; Hebrews 12:18-24. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

[@knicolecurtis]

I've been careful to think of a response to this video for some time. I'm so grateful that I came across this quote by A.W. Tozer this week. He says it better than I could have: "One thing must be kept in mind: We Christians are Christians first and everything else after that. Our first allegiance is to the kingdom of God. Our citizenship is in heaven. We are grateful for political freedom. We thank God for democracy as a way of life. But we never forget that we are sons of God and citizens of another city whose builder and maker is God. For this reason, we must not identify the gospel with any political system or make Christianity to be synonymous with any form of government, however noble. Christ stands alone, above and outside of every ideology devised by man. He does not join any of our parties or take sides with any of our great men except as they may come over on His side and try to follow Him in righteousness and true holiness. Then He is for them, but only as individuals, never as leaders of some political faction. The true Christian will be loyal to his country and obedient to those in authority, but he will never fall into the error of confusing his own national culture with Christianity. Christianity is bigger than any country, loftier than any civilization, broader than any human ideology." (A.W. Tozer, 1897-1963, taken from The Next Chapter After the Last: For the Child of God, the Best is Yet to Come, chapter 13) If we do not heed Tozer's advice, we are in danger of the deception that the disciples almost fell into and to the deception Jesus Christ warned against. To put it simply: clay (church) and iron (state) should not mix. For this is a slippery slope. One needs only to look at the Dark Ages to see the persecution that occurs when the Church joins with the State to enforce a "Christian" morality. . . I'm glad that Dr. Guinness says he does not ascribe to Christian Nationalist views. And I don't disagree with everything he's so eloquently stated in this video. However I would humbly submit that our failure as God's church in the US is not that we lack political engagement. Our failure is that we would look at the darkness around us and turn to the State to shine an "institutional light" when our Master wants each of us to "be a light" to the individuals around us. For it is the individual heart that God longs to win, not an election. The difference we should be making is not a political one, but a spiritual one. I'll continue to be edified by much of the content on this channel. Stay vigilant. Be blessed!

[@peters6345]

I completely agree with his take on Trump. Some of his policies where very good. But also a lot of his followers, where not critical at all to his deplorable language and pride. Just my 2 cents, great video

[@shieldoffaith8798]

I feel the same. I voted for him and prayed for him but strongly disagreed with him on his push for the jab and 5g. If he’s on his walk with the Lord, he’s learning hopefully. I’m not sure if he’s born again or not. Didn’t seem like it yet but maybe I’m wrong. My struggle is, what do you do when you have family members who go to a liberty church that is more focused on saving America than winning souls for Jesus? Sadly my family members who go do not want to talk about Jesus and don’t have compassion or care for the lost. They care about being right more than anything and a lot of pride. It saddens me because I also love my country but if that’s the center of the church, that sounds like a spiritual problem to me

[@edgarmorales4476]

The meaning of life is to provide opportunity after opportunity to express unconditional love within the context of relationships within situations. This voice - the voice of the soul - is quiet. The loud voice is the dominant voice - and it is the voice of insanity. Choose the quiet voice of sanity and teach others to do the same. Do not be deceived. There is deception at levels that has never been seen before - due to the amplification of media - including social media. It has become easier to tell what is of God and what is not of God - so do not fall for all the lies that are circulating. God is not involved in politics. Satan is - and Satan love to disguise himself as "God" and make you believe that he will fight all the evildoers. God is not involved in battles - as all are part of God. It is said in the Bible that "you shall know them by their fruits." Apply this principle whenever you are in doubt - and you will see clearly. Do not get too attached to appearances either - because as you know - they can be quite deceiving. There are many wolves in sheep's clothing. If they are involved in conflict in any way - shape or form - you can be certain that they are not on the path of unconditional love - at least not at this time. There has been great confusion about the concept of characters and the plays they play in. The rule of thumb is that the Director allows the characters to write their own scripts and this they do - to advance their own policies and ambitions. But it has little or nothing to do with unconditional love. Unconditional Love is all there is.

[@tinekedijk7385]

What about the far- right !

[@tinekedijk7385]

Why not call yourself a Christian!! Why evangelical ?

[@heavenlywitness]

Os Guinness is so nuisance that it's amazing. Sadly us conservative Christian sometimes we lose the nuisance in our discussion.

[@mawrawmiller561]

How old is he?

[@greenhornet5186]

Jesus was a political dissident.

[@perezhousenashville]

No way. Wrong. With all due respect for Oz Guinness and his stout intellect but he got a major part wrong on the history of abolition and Christians. In the 19th century, it wasn’t evangelicals who lead the way on abolition. Hardly. For most of the century, conservative Christians, and those who interpreted the Bible literally, stood up FOR slavery or remained silent to it. It was the northern progressive Christians, outlier Christians, and not considered Evangelical, who lead the way on this, along with other social progressives. So yes, it’s true to say that abolition, in part, was a Christian perspective and conviction that blew the winds that paved the way for abolition, but it’s not intellectually honest to say that that Christian perspective was Bible believing evangelicals who held the Bible as literal - the majority of them stood for slavery or stood silent. Isn’t it funny how evangelicals like to look back at history then and reclaim their part in it, based on their perspective of it now. But history shows that many of the social issues that evangelicals consider normal and believe now, they were against or quite late to the party on. At those points of history, they used their biblicism and literalism to fight issues then that they agree with now. I’m sure the same will ultimately be true of gay inclusion. If history goes as it did… The evangelicals who are fighting it now, their own sons and daughters of the future will actually use a Bible and their Christian convictions to show why loving and excepting gay people and their orientation is Christlike. This was true with slavery in the 19th century. It was true with birth control and reproductive rights in the 1920s. It was true with women’s suffrage, also in the 1920s. It was true that many evangelicals based on their view of the Bible stood against civil rights and interracial marriage in the 1960s. It was true of feminism in the 1970s. It was true that evangelical Christians stood against contraception education in the 1980s and used their evangelicalism to counter the hypocratic oath to save people from aids. Evangelicals and conservative Christians also have a history of fighting the progression of arts and entertainment, that they later and now call normal with their subscriptions to Netflix and HBO max. Bible believing literalists an evangelical Christians stood against every one of those above issues at the point they were significant in our culture… And now Bible believing evangelical Christians, accept those as “biblical” and the acceptance and treatment of people as Christlike. And we’re currently in the midst of it with gay rights and inclusion. You should read scholar Stephen Prothero‘s book, “why the liberals always win, even when they lose elections.” So evangelicals love to retell history, and when they do, somehow they’re always the redemptive heroes of it, when what’s really true, is many times they were The Vandals of compassion and Christlike love. Os Guinness got this one terribly wrong. Don’t listen to the pop-KZbin teachers on this, go read deep academic papers and learn the real truth.

[@losely451]

So, what was the difference in the theological and political beliefs of Northern Progressives in the USA who were abolitionists, and the beliefs of William Wilburforce in the UK who helped abolish slavery in the UK in the early 1800's before the Civil War in the US?

[@willjones3151]

The amount of shade thrown at Catholicism is rather off putting. The amount of straw man one liners thrown out are disgusting. If the Dr. would like to discuss Catholicism with someone, I suggest he talk to a Catholic that will give him a little pushback on some of these grade school level of understandings that he is simply spouting off.

[@willjones3151]

@Mellie Blake The shade provided is very close to the standard straw man attacks that get leveled at the church all the time. If you listen to any apologists who offer rebuttals to content like this, you will understand how weak of an argument is being leveled here.

[@JonathanSaxon]

@@willjones3151 Yeah I found it annoying as well. Also the stuff about how consent of the governed is in the Old Testament when the Jews never had an election to pick their leaders.

[@chardo24]

Os Guinness is a fundamentalist Christian. He believes Jesus Christ was a wonderful fellow and a political reformer. Fundamentalist Christians theological political position is to establish the Kingdom of God on Earth by making the United States a Theocracy something similar to what the Taliban is doing in Afghanistan where the country is run by religious laws not secular laws. In a Theocratic nation Christians all live according to God law within the group. Theoretically that works wonderfully, it is heavenly but in practice it is really a brutal form of government.

[@melodysledgister2468]

Christopher Cedre, that does represent Os Guinness at all. Have you read any if his books? He is not a "fundamentalist" nor does he advocate for theocratic government. Do your research instead of making up false claims about people you disagree with.

[@KristinA-nc8my]

I've never once heard of fundamentalist as you speak. I always thought they were ones who take the Bible literal and hold to all of Scripture.

[@chardo24]

@@melodysledgister2468 “Get behind me, Satan! For you savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of humanity. "Jesus Christ.

[@HolyTerminator]

Absolutely false. Try reading books and being an active listener.

[@kylekloostra5659]

The question, "are humans good or sinful?" is unhelpful and simplistic. Humans, ontologically speaking, are good, whereas ethically speaking, they often miss the mark. So, it is not either/or; it is both/and. And this is, as I see it, a nuance that progressives get correct. On the one hand, a progressive will boldly proclaim that there is a divine light that all humans share. Or, to put it in Christian terms, there is a divine image that all humans share. But on the other hand, the progressive will also proclaim that humans ethically are driven toward establishing power to assert their will. Or, to put it in Christian terms, "there is no one is righteous, not even one." It seems to me progressives are the ones who are willing not to fall victim to the simplistic binary, black and white, either/or trap being laid here, which is so unhelpful. Instead, they are willing to rightly hold the issue's complexity and answer the question by saying, "it is both/and."