How Spirit Vessel Actually Works

[@beneaththeveil]

UPDATES: Urn and Spirit Vessel no longer give attributes as of 7.37. Instead they give 125/375 HP. Still helpful. The cooldown on Soul Release has been increased to 10s and the damage per second for Vessel has been decreased to 25 which puts it back in line with Urn now. However it still deals 4% of HP per second. It also had its healing reductions boosted to 60% as of 7.37d. This means your peak healing reduction with Orb of Corrosion, Vessel, Shiva's and Skadi is now 86% dropping down to 82% if you sell Orb of Corrosion. Orb of Corrosion and Vessel now give 68% reductions together so that earliest powerspike is even stronger than it used to be. Due to the reduction in damage, as well as Spirit Vessel now always gaining a charge upon the wielders death: strategy of when to heal using charges and when to fight with them may go back in line with Urn's strategy and allow you to be much more liberal with healing, but that's something we are continuing to play around with and analyse. Happy Gaming!

[@sneakychicken]

Some of my favorite uses for vessel and urn are on shadow demon casting it on a tank in a team fight early paired with his W. It spreads the damage out across their team if the tank retreats to his teammates and can deal massive amounts of damage to the entire enemy team. Urn and vessel are also very useful for Oracle. You can cast the healing on an Ally that you have used your false promise ultimate on and it will not be dispelled even if they are attacked because they don't take damage until the ultimate has ended. Also the healing is doubled. In the early game, this is often enough to save an ally allowing you to use your spells to kill the enemy.

[@beneaththeveil]

Very true! Incredibly potent combination of spells with Soul Release and Disseminate/False Promise

[@kylemac8672]

Shhhh don't talk about this or people will catch on

[@volgtorbg]

nice. Combine vessal with maledict for an extremely nastu debuff

[@kylemac8672]

@volgtorbg self use on warlock with facet 1 for a little buff on golem.

[@KyoHoliday]

This is an incredibly useful video and I think itd be great if you made more videos like this for other items; it'd really help with learning the depth of DOTA2 more. Thanks for annotations, too!

[@beneaththeveil]

That's our intent! You're welcome for subtitles too

[@itsumo9770]

Very excellent, comprehensive video. I appreciate the time and effort you took to put some numbers and calculations down. It helps me understand the abstract concepts. Would love more videos like this, and am looking forward to the spell Amp video! You've gained another subscriber today 😁

[@beneaththeveil]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you so much for joining us :)

[@mohammadsajadi1821]

this percentage DMG can be heavy Punch for beefy tanks. right? in dota2 we have no other item that can help you to deal percentage DMG toward enemies.

[@beneaththeveil]

It certainly helps cut through tanks, yes. As far as we know, it's the only item that currently deals percentage based damage. All other abilities are tied to certain heroes

[@mohammadsajadi1821]

​@@beneaththeveil I was thinking briefly we have another item for dealing with tanks! 90 % of heroes become tanky cause of their passive ability , so a silver edge gives a short window of time to slay them.

[@beneaththeveil]

Somewhat ☺️ we're working on a video going over Break next. Keep an eye out

[@mohammadsajadi1821]

@@beneaththeveil 🤩🤩🤩

[@raid1010]

Maybe it's time for Valve or IceFrog to release a Vayne or Fiora

[@zzadrianzz]

Oh no, spreading the word on how Vessel works is bad news for the Io spamming I do Jokes aside, great video as always Phil and the crew!

[@beneaththeveil]

Appreciate it, brother ❤️

[@ProducShuns]

Venge support + early Urn into Vessel has gained me a LOT of MMR these past few patches. It was EVEN more based when Venge did minus armor with her W, AND when solar crest had armor debuff. Basically you could take a tanky hero like BB or Axe and with another team mate completely shred their health in 3s or so. So good. Even so, an early-mid game Vessel, absolutely shreds enemy tanks. And if early enough they never expect it/or are farmed for it. So they die once, are set back and keep joining fights only to keep dieing. It takes them getting a big item to not die to the hp % damage + health degen. By that point you've made enough space for your team's carry, they're now dieing to your carry 😂 Supports: Please, any time you see a Necro, BB, Axe, LC, CK, DK pick. Just buy a vessel. You wont be disappointed.

[@beneaththeveil]

100%

[@SirClarkus]

I think Oracle deserves a special mention, as urn/spirit vessel is AMAZING with his Ult, as it cannot be interrupted, and a good Oracle should be in every single fight, as he shines when with the rest of his team.

[@beneaththeveil]

Very true! We didn't want to focus on who it was good with as that would've probably doubled the length of the video and it was Kore important to cover who it's good to buy against and how it works ☺️ If you take WL first facet you can put a vessel charge on yourself then ult for even more golem damage

[@beneaththeveil]

@@TheLapari the only items you can buy to dispel an enemy is Euls/Wind Waker or Nullifier so outside of spells which dispel an enemy it's actually on average not possible for the enemy to dispel the effect.

[@beneaththeveil]

@@TheLapari as far as I can see: there are only 9 hero spells that can dispel an enemy. Three of them are ultimates and two of them require Scepter. Relative to the total pool of spells, that's still pretty rare.

[@beneaththeveil]

@@TheLapari Purge from the creep is valid with Chen, Enchantress and Doom, sure. Other heroes leveraging Helm of the Dominator are hardly going to use this creep to counteract a 4 or 5 Oracle. Necronomicon isn't in the game anymore and Book of the Dead doesn't come out until over an hour into the game. These can hardly be held up as shining examples of counterplay which make the Oracle tech completely useless :/ Technically correct? Sure, but there's an element of reasonable viability that needs to be considered

[@beneaththeveil]

@@TheLapari The units spawned through Abyssal Horde are uncontrollable, so they won't actually dispel Urn or Vessel. Reading back your initial comment, I think I misread the initial tone that you were simply pointing out the possibility of aggressive dispels working on it; rather than essentially saying the tech is useless because enemies can sometimes dispel the healing effect. That's on me for misinterpreting. It's something to keep in mind and play around in niche situations, sure. But it's not like it makes the utility completely irrelevant/useless. Doom and Winter's Curse both dispel the enemy on cast, but if Oracle uses False Promise and Vessel on his ally after they've been cursed: then Wyvern can't do anything about it. Doom negates all healing so Oracle can't heal his ally up while they're doomed, so it's kind of irrelevant in that respect. Even with Enchant, which also dispels an enemy: Oracle can just wait for the Enchant to come out and then pop Vessel on them after since most Enchantress players are going to use Enchant to slow a hero to hit them more rather than use it to dispel a heal. An Oracle player just needs to be aware of the relatively few skills that can stop his tech and then wait for those spells to be on cooldown before committing his Soul Release charge. All part of mastering a hero over the course of many games.

[@grandmasteroturan2574]

This channel is giving good advices thank you so much❤

[@beneaththeveil]

You're so welcome!

[@imfinishedgrinding638]

For High Lifesteal heroes Vessel counters, you ought to include Chaos Knight who is still terrorizing pubs when played well. He does have his ult to dispel it and a frequent Manta purchaser now thanks to facet 1. Great video as always, dude. 👍

[@beneaththeveil]

Appreciate it! Our lists of each archetype of hero were not intended to be comprehensive but rather indicative so players could conceptualise the group of heroes. We'd totally agree that against CK it can help. Especially since toggling Armlet counts as healing so Vessel reduces the burst of HP heroes receive from toggling.

[@ChinkyChickenxx]

You're my goat. The quality is unmatched

[@beneaththeveil]

Thank you! Very kind

[@takdre5546]

Your videos are super helpful from someone who just came back to Dota2 after 4 years. I subbed!

[@beneaththeveil]

Glad to hear! Welcome aboard :)

[@brandontobias1138]

Been struggling versus huskar. You just solved that, thank you!

[@Square-Atom]

I always rush for Vessel versus Huskar and Necrophos, unless I'm playing AA

[@tomweather8887]

For the longest time now my support build has almost always gone wand > arcane boots > urn > forcestaff. Then adapt from there. Force and urn are never bad items.

[@beneaththeveil]

Good value for sure!

[@Maleficarum999]

Well you mostly have to decide between eul/force/glimmer, Solar/Blink/Drums are also a valid choice for certain heroes for certain cases. Out of those three items I think force staff to be generally the weakest, Eul is generally much better because there is so many things in the game to dispel both offensively and defensively. I think the problem with Force Staff is it's short cast range, on certain heroes who gain extra cast range Force staff can actually overshadow Euls in terms of it's utility, Rubick being the prime example.

[@tomweather8887]

@@Maleficarum999 lol, I'm an Oracle and Rubick main. But yeah, euls dispel is underrated.

[@SAL1Mbl4]

Doom's Doom also cancels any heal and regen. Also worth mentioning that the only ways to save an ally under heal/regen reduction/cancellation are Setting Health (Terrorblade's Sunder and Weaver's Time Lapse) to change ally's HP directly, Min Health (Dazzle's Grave and Troll's Battle Trance) to prevent dying and Hide (OD's Astral, SD's Disruption) to block damage ticks and win some time.

[@beneaththeveil]

Good catch on Doom. It does so many things I always forget all the details of it

[@orionstokesweiss2344]

There is also Abby's shield and Solar Crest for saving dying heros

[@beneaththeveil]

@@orionstokesweiss2344 while the barrier effects help, the point OP is making is that those effects negate damage completely rather than absorb it so the heroes HP pool doesn't have to. If a barrier effect absorbs more damage than it can handle it passes the rest of the damage on to the hero killing them in the process. Grave and Battle Trance don't work that way Worth noting though that Aphotic Shield does dispel so it's good against Spirit Vessel

[@orionstokesweiss2344]

@@beneaththeveil He listed " the only ways to save an ally under heal/regen reduction/cancellation" so I assumed it pertinent to add in other options which can also save heros under said effects....I did consider dispels but I don't know if all heal disables happen to be dispelable, and frankly there are more dispels in the game than I find reasonable to list. At a minimum lotus orb is a common support purchase and more applicable than Weaver ultimate

[@beneaththeveil]

@@orionstokesweiss2344 I can appreciate where you're coming from but I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the original point where OP was referring to hard saves and the two health manipulation spells that outright ignore the mechanics of healing reduction. Yes, barrier effects can for sure be situationally strong against certain effects in isolation, but they don't save in the same absolute and all-encompassing fashion that the effects OP initially mentioned do. I'm not trying to cause any arguments here, but I'm happy to discuss the mechanics further should you be genuinely interested in having an educational discussion on the matter. First though, I need to sleep. I hope you have a wonderful Friday ☺️

[@lowlight1063]

At 4:25 I see mostly heroes with DOT sources. Poison touch, Treant's Q, Malefice, Swarm, Battery Assault, Phoenix is basically perfect for amping his damage with urn, cause its all damage over time, ES ult and Veno's whole kit as well. I see it is nice to get a support item that synergizes with your builtin damage over time, but why is nobody talking about THAT?

[@beneaththeveil]

It's strong with DoT sources for sure which most of these heroes have in their kit; but the reason it's popular for them is due to the way they play fights. Being constantly on the edge or weaving in and out of a fight with their spells, they're much more likely than most other heroes to build up and use multiple charges each fight. That's where the real power is, even before you start looking at the synergy of other sources like with Veil and Shiva's. Lion for example can find success with Urn and Vessel, but it's so much harder for him since most of the time once he's in, he's kind of stuck there. Veno can throw wards on the flank to slow down heroes trying to sneak into a fight in order to hold his position whereas Phoenix can use Icarus Dive to reposition if he finds himself too deep in a fight. Treant sits in the trees the whole fight and just tree walks if someone tries to go on him while Dazzle typically only pops out to save someone or Debuff someone. It's the positioning aspects of these heroes which makes them the strongest carriers for Urn and Vessel, but their spells that damage are just bonuses

[@fake42222]

great job with all the explanation

[@beneaththeveil]

Thanks!

[@tiffanytan557]

A coach once taught me this and i build it everytime theres a tanky hero and im supp. However none of my teammates ever think its good.

[@beneaththeveil]

Don't worry soldier. We shall endeavour to slowly educate the masses. Good luck out there

[@affanhasby822]

11:20 when you calculate DPS's real damage, you should factor in health regen as well. Most heroes start with raw 3-5 hp regen, so in 8s they heal 24-40 hp overtime.

[@beneaththeveil]

The point of showing the raw math was to show why the ethos of using charges changes when upgrading from Urn to Vessel. Adding in regen complicates the math when the result ends up being relatively similar and still proves the point. But I can understand why for accuracy you might want regen as part of the calculation ☺️

[@calebnguyen4536]

Pit lord is kind of like an exception for urn. His passive already give heavy att dmg reduction, which kinda force you to use magic on him. While he is a prime hero for Eternal Shroud, Lotus and Guardian Greaves. He likes to stay front line with all those items and a Blademail for his team while spell lifestealing of his Q.

[@beneaththeveil]

Definitely agree. He's a tricky hero to deal with. Kind of like a Bristleback in that sometimes the best strategy is just to simply kill his team around him and then deal to him last rather than trying to take him head on with the back up of his team. If he takes his cleave facet you can break him to suppress the Atrophy Aura temporarily and then also disable his cleave so he's less potent during the time while your team is more powerful temporarily. Something we'll touch on during our video on break :)

[@ZakRoM]

Great video, learned a lot, just subscribed, love these kind of content.

[@beneaththeveil]

Welcome aboard! Glad you enjoy ☺️

[@Scribbby]

Love these deep analysis and the work you put into your videos. Instasubbed.

[@beneaththeveil]

Much appreciated!

[@richmusick4881]

Cant wait for more videos!

[@BellTollsForThee]

Thanks for the captions! Instant subscribe I love you kiwis!

[@beneaththeveil]

Welcome aboard and you're welcome for the closed captions :)

[@Sever.s.Server]

Actually spell amplification would be quite interesting. Around half a year ago, when veil was still targeted AoE, i found a lot of success with spell amp/debuff magic resistance builds of Duo Beast and Willow. While i wasn't completely sure on all details, how buffs debuffs aligned and most likely made suboptimal purchase order decisions. But it was still very enjoyable, from ganking isolated targets and burst of magic damage potential.

[@beneaththeveil]

Can definitely add it to the list for future topics ☺️

[@johnmacmillan8149]

Parasma also reduces enemy magic resistance. Great video and very informative

[@beneaththeveil]

Good catch! It indeed does and helps to amplify the damage of vessel. Thank you for the kind words :)

[@z.nizarzan1045]

Nice video, can I suggest you make video about amour and hp. When to increase one of them. Maybe about damage, speed attack and reduce armor, when we should focus make one of them.

[@beneaththeveil]

Those are things we'll start to look at for sure once we've gone over more general mechanics and status effects ☺️

[@z.nizarzan1045]

@@beneaththeveil still waiting new video

[@beneaththeveil]

@@z.nizarzan1045 we appreciate it! It's in the works!

[@zaslayer]

Great work! Keep them coming! Make a playlist also if u can :P

[@beneaththeveil]

Thanks! Look in the description for the playlist :)

[@akC012]

pls explain on flat movement speed and percentage MS. which to prefer when and why? i get stuck on this dilema when picking neutral items

[@beneaththeveil]

Movement speed is a topic we could do a whole video on for sure :)

[@jaredwhite7285]

I am not sure if this still works but back when stacking was additive you could reach negative regen amp. When an enemy had say 100 health regen qnd had 120% regen reduction, the negative 20% of their healing would still apply and 20% of their regen (in this case 20 hp per sec) would be dealt as damage. It mostly mattered for ice blast, but it was great bs alc and huskar as it would use their own high regen as a weapon, and once you got to values like 100-200+ its was pretty significant damage

[@beneaththeveil]

I couldn't find when this was changed but it's multiplicative now so it's not possible to reduce more than 100% since any calculation of reductions after the Ice Blast reduction end up being a net addition of zero. In the process of researching for this video we discovered that since Magic Resist stacking works the same way it's impossible for heroes outside of Silencer to reach permanent magic immunity. If Silencer gains something like 275 intelligence then the base 25.5% magic resistance he has is complimented by the magic resist increases through his intelligence. It took like 10 minutes and killing about 300 heroes in a demo lobby for us to achieve it so while it's feasibly impossible in any realistic game the tech is there if it goes astronomically long.

[@marselherdian1674]

Everytime i against timber, i always pick winter wyvern and buy orb corrosion + vessel, those item combo has insane regen reduction that even timber at full stack lvl 4 passive cannot ressist it, and will forced him to buy dispell item asap, while eul isn't great early item for timber, and lotus is kinda expensive, and at later minute of the game my carrybband other cores usually build shivas+skadi that goes through lotus. Those item combo also worked insanely good against axe that usually has vanguard, which the reduce regen + vessel dmg will make him squishy, because we already know that axe isn't really that tough hero, he is relying on his call and regen items to maintain his hp not droping fast. I love how those cheap ass items could fcked up enemy offlaner in early game. To be fair, the vessel kinda expensive for support heroes in early game, but it is a great invest and can be stil impactful at late game

[@beneaththeveil]

Very true!

[@developer8771]

As a razor main , I usually never have to fear much but this thing is starting to scare me , I want to main another hero but don't know how spell amp works , would love a video on that.

[@beneaththeveil]

It's on the list

[@DavidWongfl]

Chances of a support buying an orb of corrosion lategame for 5% more healing reduction seems like.... not happening and not worth, but... I will consider it now more! Probably usually way better to work toward orchid, sheepstick, ethereal blade... or maybe even another urn/vessel if it's that bad. I'll have to calculate a little more and think deeper about corrosion on supports

[@beneaththeveil]

Would totally agree that in general sacrificing 5% healing reduction in favour of more lockdown utility on supports is in the majority of cases the correct play. There's probably only a handful of circumstances if any where your team has adequate lockdown and you just need to shut down the enemy's sustain so they die quicker

[@karnbrar555]

I learned so much, thank you!! 🙂

[@beneaththeveil]

Glad it was helpful!

[@AllenDiese3]

quality here, gj man !

[@beneaththeveil]

Thank you

[@vaporwolf9344]

so about your excel data sheet... are you going to add post 25 bracer/null/wraith? Those numbers are EXTREMELY useful when going for cost effective items on supports

[@beneaththeveil]

As they're doubled, there's no need to. Just multiply all values by 2 :) If it's post 25 minutes, you should already have all of these items online if you were going to get them and should focus instead on larger items

[@DUKEHadToDoItToEm]

Bounty Hunter main here just saying urn/vessel is THE go-to item if nobody else has one and I'm not sure what the team needs yet as a support

[@beneaththeveil]

It's a reliable investment for a roamer like Bounty indeed ☺️

[@eunoia5936]

It's been 2 months now, I've been waiting for your new video

[@beneaththeveil]

You are so appreciated! Life got in the way 💔 Winter time illness along with other personal issues stopped us for a hot minute, then we were waiting for the dust to settle from TI to see if any major changes were incoming. We're back on the saddle now. New videos incoming!

[@Nerfeon]

Ty for spanish subtitles, amazing video as always 🎉

[@beneaththeveil]

You're welcome 😊

[@jonhallenmendoza196]

Can you give me some tips on how to prevent the skills/items description from showing when hover by the mouse? Tnx in advance

[@beneaththeveil]

We can't find a setting that would disable this. Best thing to do is have hotkeys bound to the item slots and use those keybinds instead :)

[@blackjesus5176]

Great breakdown! Now i just have to convince my team to get a skadi or shivas instead of their second daedelus!

[@beneaththeveil]

Always the hardest part. Good luck out there soldier

[@KaxtaOfficial]

spell amp video is very needed

[@beneaththeveil]

it's on the list :)

[@forker-r1m]

I play Huskar and this item is my worst enemy.

[@frances2191]

is there a visual cue for being able to see whether morphling is high agility?

[@beneaththeveil]

Not if he's high agility, no. If he's morphing agility then he emits a greenish hue as he morphs. If morph doesn't turn off agi shift then it persists

[@frances2191]

gotcha, thanks!

[@marksilao6145]

I think Vessel also work against heroes who use Armlet or anyone who can increase hp from skills. My question is would Vessel still work if the enemy/ally is under banishment(like OD's Banishment or Euls) or untargertable(like Willow's 2nd skill)?

[@beneaththeveil]

Vessel does reduce the amount of healing done when activating armlet, yes. Damage ticks of Urn/Vessel will not go through since the unit is invulnerable to all damage except for Sanity's Eclipse during the duration, however an ally who is healing while under the protection of Astral Imprisonment will continue to heal. An enemy trying to heal will have their healing cancelled since Imprisonment deals damage. As we discussed in our video on Eul's Scepter and Wind Waker: a hero under the effect of Cyclone is invulnerable for the duration while also being muted, silenced and disarmed. If a hero is under the healing effect and is Cycloned by an ally, they will continue to heal since it is a buff. However if Cycloned by an enemy they dispel the buff so you will not heal. Similarly if you debuff an enemy and they euls themselves they will dispel the debuff however if you debuff them and then cyclone them yourself they will continue to receive damage. Dark Willow is untargetable but not immune during Shadow Realm, so if she is buffed or debuffed before activating the spell those effects will persist for the duration. If she is healing and is hit by an AoE effect that damages her, she will lose the healing though. She can't be directly targeted by effects during Shadow Realm but can still receive damage. Hope this helped :)

[@terminaldraven7769]

Please consider not translating items and heroes in russian subtitles, because it makes it harder to understand, since we call them by the english names ourselves. Thanks for the video, it is very helpful!

[@beneaththeveil]

Thank you for letting us know. The subtitles are an automated translation based on our English subtitles. We'll look into how to create exceptions in the translation system but unsure if we can change them without understanding the language

[@saidanvarnabiev7123]

Do you recommend it to phoenix mid?

[@beneaththeveil]

It can work on Phoenix mid, however there's more value generally in quickly scaling through more powerful items like Veil into Shiva's Guard and getting a support to go vessel and play with you. Shiva's helps you farm while Vessel doesn't so it really hinders your game if you can't snowball off kills with it. In my mind, Shiva's is more reliable for core Phoenix.

[@LucklessLex]

I didn't know spirit vessel affects morphling's morph! ...granted that I rarely encounter any morphlings in my games, but thats beside the point :v Thanks for the tips!

[@beneaththeveil]

You're welcome!

[@Insonore_]

Isn't the formula 243.784 + 27.86% of HP at cast ? Anyway great content

[@beneaththeveil]

our formula is before reductions, curious how you got to 243.784 + 27.86% the math is always funky because each tick is calculated individually. Actually, if a hero pops say a Magic Wand during the Soul Release duration then they'll take more damage on the later ticks than they otherwise would since they increased their HP during the duration as well as having the healing from wand itself reduced due to the soul release debuff

[@Insonore_]

@@beneaththeveil yeah I did it before reduction as well. Asuming there is only spirit vessel applied on some HP (no magic resistance, status resist etc) only flat HP. The total damage it does is "Current HP at cast minus the current HP after 8 ticks" let's call current HP at cast C{0} and remaining HP after 8th tick C{8}. The formula to calculate the remaining HP from one tick to another is the following : C{N+1} = C{N} - (35 + 0.04 C{N}) In other words, HP at the end of the incoming tick C{N+1} is the current HP C{N} minus the 35 damages minus the 4% hp of the current HP C{N}. We can simplify this formula : C{N+1} = 0.96*C{N} - 35 So for example : First tick : C{1} = 0.96 * C{0} - 35 Second tick: C{2} = 0.96 * C{1} - 35 Third tick : C{3} = 0.96 * C{2} - 35 And so on. If you develop completely C{3} you get : C{3} = 0.96 * [0.96 * (0.96 * C{0} - 35) - 35] - 35 This can be simplify as well : C{3} = (0.96^3)*C{0} - 0.96^2*35 - 0.96*35 - 35 We can se a patern here, for C{N} we can project : C{N} = (0.96^N)*C{0} - 0.96^(N-1)*35 - 0.96^(N-2)*35 - ... - 0.96^1*35 - 0.96^0*35 The second part of this formula is a sequence that can be simplify as such : a^0+a^1+...+a^(n+1)+a^n = (1-a^(n+1))/(1-a) So we obtain : C{N} = (0.96^N)*C{0} - 35 * [ (1 - 0.96^(n+1)) / 0.04 ] So for C{8} we have : (0.96^8)*C{0} - 35 * ( (1 - 0.96^(7 + 1)) / 0.04) But this is only how to calculate the remaning HP of the incoming last tick, we want the total damage done here, i.e. C{0} - C{8} C{0} - C{8} = C{0} - (0.96^8)*C{0} - 35 * ( (1 - 0.96^(7 + 1)) / 0.04) C{0} - C{8}= C{0} * (1 - 0.96^8) - 35 * ( (1 - 0.96^(7 + 1)) / 0.04) C{0} - C{8} = C{0} * 0,2786104210161664 - 243.784118389 So it is a bit heavy, and I am big noob so maybe I have made some mistake. But this is how I got it.

[@beneaththeveil]

Ah, I think I see where things are coming apart. The flat 35 damage is resolved first, before the 4% of HP is :) Your math is better than mine to be fair. I consulted with another member of the team who was trained in the area because I wanted to verify the information I found on the wiki was correct but couldn't do the math so he helped me through it. Once we confirmed the 35 damage is dealt first then the math started working out as I was lead to believe it should. It's near impossible to test accurately due to every hero having varying base magic resist ever since they made intelligence modify base magic resist as well, so the numbers are always going to get a bit weird. If someone uses a wand or something during the Soul Release debuff duration then they will not only heal less but also end up taking more damage overall due to increasing their HP. It's wild stuff.

[@monsammy]

I'm a GM bird player. Sunray with SV and ethereal blade is enough to kill 6 slot huskar

[@beneaththeveil]

Been spamming a bit of Phoenix lately. Fun hero, the lack of a stun outside of Egg can at times be a bit hairy though lol. Was doing the same thing to a mid NP, he wasn't happy being melted by a position 5 with just SV + Shiva's

[@maxn710]

really dope video

[@beneaththeveil]

Glad you liked it

[@Tirishhai]

I always assumed every tick does 4% current hp as dmg, or did i missunderstand. Does every tick do the same dmg based on the hp on the cast or does it calculate the value for every tick ?

[@beneaththeveil]

It calculates the damage per tick, but you can solve for the compounding 4% of 100%, 4% of 96%, 4% of 92% etc. which is how you end up with 27-odd% of HP at point of cast ☺️ Technically, that doesn't factor in if a hero burst heals during the duration either; but for the sake of demonstration it does the job in showing why it's better to use charges on enemies than use for a heal on allies. The math is so inconsistent based on each heroes innate base magic resist being different now as well since Intelligence manipulates base magic resist lol

[@PaszerDye]

Miss when it used to require a Wind Lace & gave 20 movespeed...

[@beneaththeveil]

Movespeed is such a good buff

[@adventurer7579]

The entire information is in item description tho

[@beneaththeveil]

Reading is hard for some people. Applying the information can be even harder

[@tormentedterror]

If you use it on you its considered bad but if you use on enemy its a chad move.

[@beneaththeveil]

Hahahaha kind of! With the new update that gives Spirit Vessel an extra charge every time you die there's now added benefit to spamming out excess charges to the team to keep them topped up when you're front line brawling and accidentally slip up :)

[@SillyBilly167]

What do you think of the new spirit vessel change?

[@beneaththeveil]

It makes healing reduction (especially early on with just Orb of Corrosion) more potent which in theory makes snowball potential stronger. The addition of always gaining a charge on death means in theory you should be able to provide more charges for healing too which should keep the snowball rolling. On paper the changes are good, but as always need more experience playing things out to see how they feel fully.

[@vnshngpnt]

Urn is one of the most broken items, vessel is a must have in every game.

[@beneaththeveil]

It's definitely very strong

[@g4md0r32]

It's really funny when enemy picks huskar and you have already picked Ancient Aparition. Like we have won so many games because I just had AA and the enemy had a healing heavy hero.

[@beneaththeveil]

Love when the counters pick themselves for sure

[@frances2191]

spell amplification video would be helpful!

[@beneaththeveil]

You got it!

[@ripntear3416]

please does anyone know how to turn off the range indicators

[@beneaththeveil]

which range indicator exactly? there are multiple. if it's the permanent range indicator you can disable that by holding ALT and right clicking whatever range is being displayed (item, attack range etc.) and also go to dota labs and disable permanent range indicator If it's only the range display while casting you can disable that via your interface sub menu of the options page

[@ripntear3416]

@@beneaththeveil im talking about the huge green rectangles that got implemented five months ago or smth, for pudge hook, mirana arrow, hookshot and all the rest... its extremely annoying and it just cant be turned off

[@beneaththeveil]

@@ripntear3416 they're integrated into the range display indicators. If you play with quickcast on key down you'll never see any of them except for vector cast spells but I think for regular cast and quickcast on key up they're baked into the game at present. There is a setting to disable range indicators while casting but it doesn't seem to be working at present. if all the range indicators annoy you'd I'd advise making the jump to quickcast on key down. if there are certain items you want key-up exceptions for you can make exceptions in the item hotkey menu

[@ripntear3416]

@@beneaththeveil thanks for answering, i just think its horrible that they are forcing us to play with quickcast blatantly like that.. i hope they will fix it one day

[@erentriptide7535]

Can you do a video on Ethereal Blade, please?

[@beneaththeveil]

We can certainly get to Ethereal Blade at some point relatively soon :) Many other items to go through first! Keep your eyes peeled

[@Tim_Sviridov]

Very thorough explanation. Nice work. (Yes, this is mostly just for the algorithm.)

[@beneaththeveil]

Doing god's work. Thank you

[@vovablood]

Ok i might be insane, but i need someone to tell me If an enemy applies vessel on you, i think you can get rid of that debuff by using your own vessel

[@beneaththeveil]

You can not, no. In fact, the harming debuff from an enemy purges your heal from your own vessel since the healing is cancelled by taking damage

[@myhypocrite1593]

Level 18 Nyx assisin with octarine core, dagon 5, khanda, shard can burst most of the tanks except aba

[@beneaththeveil]

It's pretty nuts. With level 25 talent Nyx can apply Break on Abaddon. Combine that with some sort of disable to stop him manually casting Borrowed Time and it's game over for him. We discuss that in our upcoming video on Break :)

[@emberhydra]

5:46 why is tree here? He barely heals anyone with E

[@beneaththeveil]

Treant Protector heals not only through Living Armor but also through Leech Seed, which with the Sapling facet allows him to provide heals and damage in a particular area rather than having to tie it to an enemy. Leveraging Spirit Vessel on a hero Treant is trying to keep alive with both Living Armor and Leech Seed heavily hinders his effectiveness at doing so.

[@Themagician22419]

Can you please do morphling. I’m a morph spammer but still certain heroes I morph I’m still confused. Like I want their aghs spell. Some hero I get it some hero I don’t, like they also need aghs then I get the spell. It’s strange. Maybe a bug in demo

[@Themagician22419]

Also might like to add I seems like I don’t replicate there talent points. For example weaver at level 25 gets three attack on sukuchi. When I morph weaver I don’t get it.

[@beneaththeveil]

Morphling is super complex. Been experimenting with Morphling support since 9Class and Boxi have both been playing a bit and winning with it. In order to gain access to a heroes upgraded scepter or shard spell you need to have scepter or shard yourself. Obviously if their Scepter or Shard ability is tied to their ultimate you don't get it since you don't get their ultimate ability. Having tested with Earthshaker: you can have both effects while he has neither - so it may be an oversight on your part there. Morphling himself used to not gain access to the innate abilities that a hero has when he morphs into them, but it seems with 7.36 they've altered this. It seems the Strong Illusion does as well, but they may get a weakened version like they do with mana break etc. Morphling's talents do not change when he morphs into someone however, which I believe is why you don't get the bonus geminate attack. The same thing happens with Earthshaker with the Fissure range talent. Morphling doesn't get it. Any talents that manipulate raw stats or cooldowns do transfer over though since they alter the spell itself as soon as they're picked.

[@Themagician22419]

@@beneaththeveil yeah that’s what I thought. If their spells is tied to their ultimate you don’t get it but the strange thing is I played a game against slark. His ultimate provides heath regen 60/90/120. I morphed into slark and when I wasn’t around their heroes I gain 75 regen. I thought to myself that was weird because that high amount of regen is tied to his ult.

[@Themagician22419]

@@beneaththeveil also would like to add. Yes morphling flow facet is so strong and fun. Been experiment it myself. Played against lifestealer and a axe. Unlimited rage and taunt with Octarine. So fun!

[@beneaththeveil]

@@Themagician22419 the regen is tied to his innate now, not his ultimate ☺️ ult just amplifies it I believe. In bed now so I can't check

[@yasahiroitou1307]

Spirit veseel give the best value to bane/oracle(I'm a spammer of both heroes) lv 14 bane kill literally every hero if he has spirit vessel. Oracle can spam purifying flame on spirit vessel target because it will out dmg the heal bc of vessel and request your carry to build orb of corrosion to maximize the heal reduction . And if you play active game/ grantee to get kill or assist make sure to use spirit vessel off cd because you get 2x charges at 0 charge. I like those 2 heroes because of lane auto win ability due to their disarm/nightmare. If enemy come to deward your ob or sen3 ward during laning stage you can just deward their ward in front of their face, tip them . After doing 2 time like this, they'll be tilted and poor for the rest of their game 😂

[@francobuzzetti9424]

i don't play dota but i know the lore and that skin is tickling my brain!

[@beneaththeveil]

Which one? The one at the start? That's the new Vengeful Spirit Arcana. There's an event on at the moment which explores her lore :)

[@francobuzzetti9424]

@@beneaththeveil yes! that one! i guess i'm back to browsing lore !

[@the_poof]

How does spell amp work?!

[@beneaththeveil]

It's something we will cover in time. Phil has been sick the last two weeks and was house sitting the month previous so we've not had the means to make videos as of late. It's on the agenda to cover :)

[@the_poof]

@@beneaththeveilall good. You just asked us to comment in the video if we wanted to learn more so I did! 🙂 Hope Phil recovers quickly and completely.

[@davidyongco1592]

I doubt agility to strength change is classified as healing, is this confirmed or just an assumption?

[@beneaththeveil]

It might seem implausible but it is. A hero under the effect of Ice Blast or Doom (100% healing reduction) can Armlet or Treads toggle themselves to death since each time they switch off and on in the case of armlet or off and then back to strength in the case of treads they are losing and then essentially instantly healing HP. Try it yourself in demo mode and see :)

[@n.a.t8404]

sir you are a angel

[@beneaththeveil]

Thank you!

[@Learnfromtheworst.-gr3zi]

I always use urn agaisnt heroes who rely on blinking away it's such a toxic move 😂😂

[@beneaththeveil]

It's very strong for sure

[@mikeylejan8849]

Spirit vessel is item!

[@beneaththeveil]

It is!

[@shred7000]

make a spell amp video pls

[@beneaththeveil]

will add it to the list :)

[@mfd8346]

manta removes everything

[@beneaththeveil]

Manta will dispel Soul Release and Orb of Corrosion's 3 second debuff, however if hit again Orb of Corrosions debuffs will reapply. Eye of Skadi's debuff can not be purged and since Shiva's Guard's healing reduction is done in an AoE around the hero wielding the item it's not possible to dispel that effect

[@matheuscouri2225]

Gr8 job

[@beneaththeveil]

thank you!

[@EarthSpirit.easyzdota]

Earth spirit enjoyers autobuy

[@beneaththeveil]

The 10 talent for Spell Amp makes it even better for free

[@sneakychicken]

Pairs great with his ult too

[@EarthSpirit.easyzdota]

Not me buying it cause it has the word spirit just like earth spirit and the red from soul release complements his eyes

[@UnrealChaosHD]

HOW DOES BREAK ACTUALLY WORKS?

[@beneaththeveil]

coming up next :)

[@YSM_Dota]

Nice vid, we should play sometime :)

[@beneaththeveil]

Thank you!

[@twentyfouravage6052]

Hi. Need spell amp video please🎉

[@beneaththeveil]

It's on the list! Few more things to cover first

[@alparslanklc434]

good content

[@beneaththeveil]

Thank you!

[@OatDrip777]

Beneath The Veil drop another banger again. hope the herald of dota and the boosted account and account buyer subscribe to this channel Asap. cant handle most of the stupidity of them anymore. its half year of 2024 already!

[@acrobatical481]

Kiwi?

[@beneaththeveil]

Yes indeed :)

[@jinjiroo]

6,66 thousand subrsribers

[@drallersouldust3054]

it's not so good against morph especially at late game

[@beneaththeveil]

As with many things in dota: the later the game goes the less effective they become overall, yes.

[@TC-kw4xu]

hi i'd like to volunteer for creating the subtitle for my own language

[@beneaththeveil]

What language?

[@TC-kw4xu]

@@beneaththeveil indonesian !

[@NoYocto]

Please add ukrainian subtitles. Thank you in advance for your hard work.

[@beneaththeveil]

Added for you! Will continue to add them going forward :)

[@tanjirokamado7098]

or just pick AA >:DD (iz a joke)

[@beneaththeveil]

We did say towards the end that you can play AA! We forgot Doom also disables healing too

[@blindspy]

So you’re just stealing Adrian’s format

[@beneaththeveil]

Hey, Phil here. 100% we took his format and ran with it. We've never tried to hide that. When we first pivoted to this content style we credited him with originating the format and regularly pushed viewers to his channel and videos in the description. We have a playlist that heavily features his videos with ours sprinkled in with a few other creators. We made no attempts to hide who we were plagiarising, because the format worked and he deserved to be pushed for originating it. We realised while he focussed mainly on hero skills, there was space for us to focus on items. He understands it's all part of the content game and us being in the same space doesn't mean we're inherently adversarial. We push viewers back to his channel any time we can because we know how much effort goes into the production of each video. Go and watch his 30K AMA where he shouts us out - he didn't have to do that. He could have chosen literally anyone. Adrian and I talk privately once a month or so about IRL stuff as well as Dota/YT stuff. I'm one of only a handful of mods in his Discord. None of that would have happened if he wasn't fully aware of and cool with us doing what we did. Hope you found the video helpful :)

[@vidishchandekar4316]

30 mins and 120 views bro fell off. Waiting for a Sunnyv2 Video :)

[@beneaththeveil]

💀

[@vnickleswitter]

Ferst

[@beneaththeveil]

Congratulations 🎉