How The UK Government Could Avoid Riots Using Marketing

[@financian_]

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[@rasplez9889]

UK student loans are a lot more forgiving than the US. In the UK, it's something you only pay back if you can, and the company can just write it off as a tax loss. In the US, a loan is a loan. If I was American, I'd be in prison now for not paying back my student loan with my current job.

[@mandavaler]

We dont have debtors prison here...

[@Xanderoverlord]

Sure but regardless its not really written off in the UK, its done so after 32 years and at that point you'd be nearing your death bed anyway, people always bang on about how its written off but the interest alone is insane, you aint ever paying it back unless you are making mega bank, its literally a rug pull tax for the rest of your life 😂😂😂😂

[@4u_lightningwolf]

you would not be in prison because you don't go to prison for having debt

[@tombruton]

I went to university to end up teaching most my lecturers more than they taught me. I now pay 800 a month for the privilege for the next 9 years

[@TOBY-jy7bz]

​@@Xanderoverlordyou are nearing your deathbed at 50? Or do you start college/university at 40?

[@aaronadams5885]

To clear up confusion: in the uk, student loans are provided by the student loans company (SLC) which is a non-profit, government-owned company backed by the department for education. It is not a bank or other private financial institution. When you graduate from university, you will pay back 9% of your income above a certain threshold (for example i pay back 9% above £27,000). Therefore if you earn more, you pay more. If you're income falls below that threshold, you pay nothing. Its irrelevant how much you borrow. Thats why it's more of a tax than a loan.

[@InfuZedShaDoWz]

There’s an extortionate amount of interest applied for a non-profit then

[@deludedmarxist]

​@@InfuZedShaDoWz That's just the payback amount - 9% of income over a certain threshold. Some people it's 27k, some people it's 25k - and that is frozen, doesn't rise with inflation. The actual interest is calculated monthly, and sits at RPI+1%, which basically does track inflation and then some. For quite a sustained period, it was at 14% per month. And given many students in the UK had to take out maintenance loans to cover the cost of food and rent from the same lender, the debt quickly balloons.

[@Dekedence]

​@@InfuZedShaDoWzthat's not the interest, that's the repayment amount. The higher you earn, the quicker the loan pays off. The idea - although not a reality for all - is that not only do you get a higher paying job but it compounds into higher jobs and higher salaries. There is interest though, can't remember the exact formula but it tracks a fixed amount above BofE

[@ghdshds1899]

It’s not irrelevant how much you borrow because it dictates when you pay it off, and how much you actually pay. It’s only irrelevant if you don’t expect to make enough money to pay it off.

[@aaronadams5885]

@ghdshds1899 which is the vast majority of people, like 75%. My point is, if you want to go to university, a fear of debt should not dissuade you. But it's up to you.

[@branmandola6748]

I’m no economist but this doesn’t seem to consider that people who drop out or who take useless degrees won’t have to pay back the tax money they wasted.

[@coopergillam6442]

That's not the point

[@darrennew8211]

In the USA, they already don't.

[@AnotherHistorianWargamer]

We have this in Australia called HECS and it works fine. They set the amount you have to earn before making payments lower than the average wage. If you worked full time at MacDonalds making $25 ($12 USD) an hour for 40 hours a week you'd have to make payments. Basically it means you can get a degree without needing to pay upfront and it's just a bit more taxes exactly as he said and people view it that way not as loans. People here don't even know how much they have in loans because it's not that big a deal.

[@andrewrogers837]

what on earth is a “useless degree”? I assume you think universities exist to train people for jobs rather than their actual purpose of advancing human knowledge, learning and understanding?

[@Dan-wv4tj]

​@@andrewrogers837 gender studies is the first that comes to mind

[@connorgames6668]

I'm 75k in debt. I'm in the NHS now so I'm doomed for a life of debt and stress, but dam it!!! It feels dam good when I get home knowing I did so.ething

[@tyler-qr5jn]

Thank you for your service

[@ResinAlchemist2024]

From the outside looking in I read quite a bit of how the NHS is failing. Not enough Doctors, nurses, and other medical staff. People suffering and dying because of insane wait times to receive appointments, care, and treatment. This is probably a stupid question so please forgive me if it's ignorant or offensive. Wouldn't it help the NHS, citizens, and patients if you complete an education in healthcare and choose to work for the NHS for an agreed upon time that your student debt be erased? Wouldn't more students choose that area of study, complete their education, join the NHS, stay with the NHS longer, and help improve the current Access to and quality of care problems with the NHS if they knew they would not be shackled to an insane amount of debt? Wouldn't that actually save the government money and help it improve the NHS in the long run? If you complete your education and agree to take a job contract with the NHS in return for the cancellation of your student debt wouldn't that make working for the NHS more attractive? A steady job, benefits, the ability to actually live with the means to afford food, housing, and other basic essentials of daily living without the constant stress of carrying a crushing amount of debt would attract me to the field and job if I were a student. That way should I want to purchase a car, buy a home, marry, even have a child would be much more attainable without literally starting out underwater due to having so much debt.

[@reggioinspiredhome]

​@ResinAlchemist2024 the problem is that on the NHS there is very limited options for career (=salary) progression unless you step away from clinical care. Eg most ward nurses are band 5 nurses and their salary caps out at ~34k basic pay whether they have 4 years or 34 years of work experience. If you want higher pay you need to find a role with less clinical care to the extent that many band 7 and above nurses do no clinical care at all. Similarly, for most doctors, if you want any resemblance of work life balance (eg mostly 9-5) you need to massively reduce or completely step away from clinical care. NHS needs more clinical staff on the ground, not in non clinical roles and mandating x years NHS service is not going to fix it. And you absolutely do not want to encourage people who should step away from clinical dueties due to burnout by threatening to punish them financially for doing the right thing amd taking time off.

[@GigaAndy]

The student loan isn't a debt and doesn't form part of your estate.

[@ShortFilmVD]

@@connorgames6668 How's the pension? 😉 And I wouldn't worry about the debt, it'll probably get written off before you pay it. If you do manage to pay it off you must be earning a mint, at which point it's a drop in the ocean.

[@AM49047]

If only it was something you repay when you earn 50k and not 20k

[@samueljames481]

It is, that's exactly how it works in the UK. You have to earn a comfortable amount before you pay it back

[@reeces1062]

​@@samueljames481You have to pay a certain portion of you earn 20+ K, it's just lower than if you were earning 30K.

[@hblake5213]

Yeah but the number is closer to around 25k at the moment, not 50k

[@Dekedence]

​@@hblake5213 it's still a loan, it's not free money

[@Notused2024]

​@@hblake5213 exactly, the repayment threshold is now the same as minimum wage for a full time worker

[@Marl3421]

The fact that he says you have to borrow 7k a year shows how little he actually knows about this! The course costs a little over 9k before you get a maintenance loan to actually afford rent, food, transport etc

[@dekmackie]

Not UK! I was born into a council house, but lucky enough for that to be in Scotland, where every child born here gets free university tuition, like a developed country should do.

[@tkralva.6668]

Yes subsidised by the English, when it was a Scottish king and his decendents that annexed England once on the English throne.

[@dekmackie]

@tkralva.6668 subsidised eh? Well if you believe that, then get to work boy and work hard, cos you've got a lot of kids' education to pay for...jog on 🤣

[@dekmackie]

@tkralva.6668 do you think the royal family are English? 🤣🤣🤦‍♂️

[@connorgames6668]

My Scottish mate told me this and I was in shock! I was thinking how on earth does Scotland d afford that, like I live in the UK which is a big country in the world stage and we won't give a penny out for free. Then is dawned on me, the money you have the tighter you become

[@marcbaigrie2295]

⁠@@tkralva.6668the entire British economy is propped up by Scottish oil so your point is irrelevant

[@alanpartridge1385]

My wife has student loans from Sweden which are now 30 years old. She'll never pay them off, it's just a form of taxation for anyone not wealthy enough to avoid borrowing.

[@thepenguinmafia]

At the time I didn’t realise that £50k a year would be barely enough to rent a room in a zone 2 flat share too

[@JackChurchill101]

Why? Because they can't sell a state tax to the finance brokers. But they can sell loan repayments.... Who owns your debt?

[@r02678]

The student loans company.......😮

[@cariboubearmalachy1174]

It's not exactly the same. If you have a student loan, you still owe the money no matter how poor you are. If it's a tax, you only pay it if you're well off. Financing education through loans is the most maliciously anti-poor policy you can do it. As idiotic as it is cruel.

[@timstapleman]

@@cariboubearmalachy1174 People are rich because they've worked hard. They set a good example for the rest of us. Lazy benefit scroungers who want free education and easy exams must be weeded out of our society.

[@connorgames6668]

Charging for education to claw your way out from poverty still baffles me. It's free in Scotland. Mad right

[@Racing_Fox]

It’s easier for Scotland. Your population is lower and you’re getting a large chunk of money from taxes paid by the English.

[@wildeyshere_paulkersey853]

It's free in Scotland because us plebs in England pay your bills. Freeloading rats.

[@myekim123]

Except it's not 2% and it's not £50,000

[@A190xx]

The entire debt should be repayable by those that do to uni not 30% as it is currently. Why should those that don't go pay for those that do?

[@Perfectkid197]

​@@A190xxwhat

[@rajanalexander4949]

Exactly

[@coywolfproductions7056]

And don't forget that it's not if you graduate and if you get a high paying job It's you're paying it back period

[@James-tv4pl]

​@@A190xx under the new student loan repayment plans 79% of students will repay their loans in full before the time that they are written off. Considering there is a large annual interest rate on student loans (around 7%/year), not only are they not a burden on public finances, they are actually an asset.

[@kevininglesant2514]

I actually marched in London against the proposed increase in tuition fees. Fat lot of good that did 🙄 the student loan has worked in my favour though because after 12 years I had paid it off. If there was a graduate tax I would still be paying 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@A190xx]

So you were happy that people that never went to university and had modest incomes paid for you to start work 3 years later with only 30% of student debt ever repaid?

[@lelobest]

@@A190xx well said

[@basstedson]

​@@A190xx at the time this person will have taken out student loans the interest rates mean that they will have been profit generating for the government. In short, no one paid for this person's education but themselves and in fact they paid back more than they used in real terms.

[@kevininglesant2514]

​@@A190xx4 years actually, and yes I feel good about my education being supplemented by public taxes, in the same way that my taxes contribute to supporting people who are unemployed or unable to work through disability. I'm a healthcare professional and have spent the last 17 years putting my blood, sweat and tears into the NHS. And this is the gratitude? 😒

[@kevininglesant2514]

@@A190xx another thing, I actually repaid every penny of my student loan. And in case you're under the illusion that my uni time was party central, it was actually 4 years of 9-5 lectures and labs, with coursework and private study between. It was hard work, whilst living on a very tight budget. Wouldn't expect you to understand though

[@funkmonkeymetal]

They privatised education without letting it find it's real market value. Let them sell their courses without govenment backed loans. It's not like they'll lend 18 year olds 60k to start a business even though they'd be far better off than most degree holders.

[@jamesfalvey6638]

A tax is limited to UK tax residents. The loan is a debt that must be repaid even if the debtor moves overseas after their studies. Hence why they had to call it a loan. The loan also gets written off after 30 years and you can pay it off early. If you could pay off a graduate tax early that would be like paying money now not to have to pay tax later and doesn't look as good. Also the repayment for plan 2 loans is about £27,000. Yes 10 years ago when the repayment threshold was roughly the same that didn't sound so bad. They haven't sufficiently raise the threshold in years so now this is capturing students much quicker after they graduate and develop their careers.

[@cherylsexton2611]

The government avoided calling it a "graduate tax" because doing so would have required them to apply it to wealthy graduates as well. Instead, the current student loan system is deeply unfair, as it ensures that the poorest graduates pay the most. Unlike the wealthy, who can clear their debt early and avoid excessive interest, those with less financial flexibility are forced to pay back loans with crippling interest over 25 years. A true graduate tax, levied fairly on all graduates-including those who earned their degrees before tuition fees were introduced-would be a far more equitable system.

[@xtrachillisauce]

Student loans are given by loans companies, which are ultimately backed by the banking industry, so the profits go to the banks. Taxes go to the government treasury, so the banks make little that way, in comparison.

[@Racing_Fox]

Student loans aren’t backed by banks, they’re backed by the government

[@askdjmqweqwe]

In the UK it’s provided by a not for profit company backed by the government. So the government is providing, managing and collecting the loans.

[@johnathanh2660]

And the govt(s) would have had to admit putting a tax on education. A tax that can be avoided if you're wealthy enough to pay the tuition fees directly. No loans = no loan repayments = no graduate tax. It would've been political s/c.

[@gmunz3643]

Words don’t define behavior, reality does. There’s been millions of riots from the dawn of civilization against taxes of every type. Most famously one in a small British colony a few thousand miles west of England…

[@masonr1666]

He makes the assumption you can find a job in your field of study. This is not necessarily the case in America. You can graduate, and still end up working at a Fast Food Restaurant, and a significant portion of your income goes to rent, and paying down debt. College is not the path forward for everyone. Some will end up with debt they will never be able to pay off.

[@Sammy-qt9it]

Calling it a graduate tax makes it more obvious they shouldn't exist. Taxing people who are more educated and therefore will likely contribute more to the economy?

[@trevorevans3956]

You pay this amount, the teaching better be top notch and relevant.

[@danellis-jones1591]

It should be free. It was for years. Why not now? Ask the billionaires...

[@lewis72]

Too many people going to uni to study Noddy degrees. UK needs to identify the courses for which we need graduates, make them free, then apply fees for the non-essential ones.

[@colinwalker4824]

Well, not every degree produces value these days

[@PatrickStephens-hc5sp]

The thing is, the population is growing and quite frankly if we don’t make universities pay then the government would have to make cuts in mainstream education or other public services. It is a necessary evil to pay transition fees.

[@lewis72]

@@PatrickStephens-hc5sp Unfortunately popuation isn't growing, it's being imported... and they're not, on average, big earners, so the GDP/capita is going down.

[@Ray-yv7kn]

Free? So who pays the teachers? Who pays for the books? Who pays for the building where the students learn?

[@thijshavinga6847]

Actual debt is more than a word. It's a very real thing e.g. when it comes to mortgages. That's not the case for a tax.

[@timg1246]

What ?

[@thijshavinga6847]

​@@timg1246 Debt is not tax and tax is not debt. The difference is more than framing.

[@samshorto5433]

How's that relevant to student loans? They have no effect on mortgages.

[@thijshavinga6847]

They absolutely do where I live.

[@samshorto5433]

@@thijshavinga6847 Where in the UK do you live?

[@vmcl5330]

Individuals paying for education does not serve the society as such, it merely favours the privileged and prevents the intellectually able poor from choosing a topic that may not be financially valuable for the individual themselves but increase knowledge of mankind. Besides, a family's most valuable possession most likely is something without price tag, at least in a civilised society.

[@tobyhamilton2153]

While I can understand why it isn't free, lecturers want more money or running costs are higher unis will need more money, which comes from the government. Uni costs more than the fees, there's equipment you need like a laptop, books you'll probably have to buy, accomodation, food, travel. Your loan generally doesn't cover all of this. A student experience requires financial backing from yourself and family, this is a known variable as your loan amount is calculated on your household income, the poorer you are the more you get. In terms of education university is quite easy because you don't have any other responsibilities unless you need to work to afford to go to university, but compared with apprenticeships, uni is easier. With apprenticeships you have to complete a full time degree, whilst working an industry related job, and the one day a week you get to complete your degree isn't enough time to complete the assignments, but it's not like you can stay up late every night working on it, becauee you have a low skilled job which requires limited brain power, you have a proper job to do as well. Also uni's have term times, my apprenticeship doesn't, if you go on holiday, you have to catch-up and make sure you don't miss a deadline.

[@Matthew-vy1ij]

The vast majority of students would be a net loss to the treasury if we just added 2% to earnings over 50k.

[@arkinsol]

The problem with such a tax is employers paying appallingly low wages for someone who has sacrificed a minimum of 3 years of earning potential by mandating a degree level education for a position. Unless the position legally requires such a degree and the salary after graduation will exceed an average earner or will exceed within 2 years of entering the workforce, many simply will not take it up. With the number of applicants being accepted to university who graduate to work entry-level jobs, it would also be a terrifying prospect of paying 2% more tax for the same position when there is merit in having a degree regardless of perceived value to the outside world, which will stifle innovation. I am not defending student loans at all, but at least what you repay (or pay in tax) is based on your income and not simply the mere possession of a degree under the current system.

[@GigaAndy]

You've misunderstood the repayment mechanism. It's always affordable.

[@arkinsol]

@GigaAndy thank you, I glazed over the £50k, and thought it was a blanket 2%! As long as their is a threshold, it makes better sense.

[@snshull]

University education is not required for most jobs.

[@iantustin1983]

Absolutely!! 👍

[@Racing_Fox]

Perhaps not the jobs you want, but the jobs I want require a bachelors at the minimum preferred masters. If you don’t have a degree you won’t be looking for jobs that require them

[@syedminhaj-ul-haque1982]

People hate taxes more than loan

[@ErinDionysusBee]

No we don't, only morons hate taxes. I enjoy my Healthcare, roads, social services, etc. Like all sane rational humans not cursed by the idiocy of libertarianism.

[@Jd7172g]

⁠@@ErinDionysusBeebut we’re taxed at the highest rate since WWII and our public healthcare is in decline, driving anywhere south of York is hellish, public transport is unreliable and often unsafe and our public social services are awful. I like my private dental care, comfy private car and the private carers that look after my grandmother in law. All of which would be more easily accessible to everyone if they paid less tax. Tax isn’t free, it’s just your money but the government decides how it should be spent instead of you

[@James-tv4pl]

​@@Jd7172g the problem with lowering taxes and privatising everything is that yes, the quality of care may be better. But fewer people are going to be able to access the care. In fact, it's the most vulnerable, the people who need it most, who will not be able to access it

[@rhodriwilliams2599]

​@@Jd7172gask the conservatives who have blatantly taken your tax money and given it in tax breaks to billionaires and dodgy private contracts where the private companies have delivered 0 of their promises. Incompetence is the issue, not taxes themselves.

[@NayNay-hw6im]

Tax, Loans, Fees...call it what you want if you're smart enough you'll know you're being screwed

[@Rocketboy1313]

I have had this same conversation. The US has a debt collection service with the IRS and one of the chief listed benefits of going to college is higher income. Just put a tax into place to capture that higher income. That way if some doesn't graduate or their degree doesn't result in higher pay then they are not saddled with unpayable amounts of debt.

[@borstenpinsel]

There already is a tax increase for higher income.

[@cajunguy6502]

"we'll just call this normal car a rocket ship! But the mechanism will be exactly the same" then its not a rocket ship, homie. 😂 This guy is out here just saying anything.😂

[@tomdavies9004]

Yeah he does yap sometimes but as people have pointed out, this one is really for British people and it *does* make sense for British student loans. In this case, it’s not so much that he’s saying the government should have called a car (loan) a rocket ship (tax)- uk student loans literally do function more like a tax on grads than like a loan, so he was saying the branding is both bad and inaccurate.

[@Wazzathebro]

Graduate tax still happens to dropouts too, not just graduates. Very badly named.

[@mattwinstanley2544]

Not sure about this, calling it a graduate tax would just confuse people - how can it be a tax on graduates if it’s only for graduates who took out a loan and only until those graduates pay that loan back plus interest 😂 People were unhappy because they kept raising tuition fees, forcing it on students and Scottish students were getting a free pass 😂

[@Allstar-yl1ek]

He makes the mistake of thinking that the people in power want the poor going to university.

[@111dddcca]

In the future it MAY well be more like a loan. Think about it, they can keep the repayment threashold at 9% of earnings over £27,000. £27,000 in the future will be worth a lot less and they are under no obligation to increase the threashold.

[@James-tv4pl]

They've already reduced the threshold to £25,000 per year

[@macflod]

This is really cleved because at that age when i was poor any debt was very scary to me, even student loan debt but i don’t think those making the rules understand what its like to be poor.

[@Racing_Fox]

If you read about it though you’d realise student loan debt isn’t really debt at all. It makes no difference to your ability to buy a house and you’re not going to end up with bailiffs at your door if you can’t afford it

[@macflod]

@ yeah i know and if you can afford not to use that loan you could in theory make money on a student loan. I remember being told that at the time as someone explained it but i was still uncomfortable with it as it was called a loan and there was going to be a debt on you as this us what it was called. The thought to pay back 14k (it was as little as this in my time) was terrifying to me because i had nothing then. A £1,80 coffee was a ridiculous expense to me. £100 was significant amount and at the age of 18 i wasn’t as financially savvy as now. If as said in the video it was framed differently id not of been stressed about it. Cool name btw!!!

[@safirahmed]

Education should be free and the tax system can be made fairer so those with immense wealth pay more tax and those with less wealth pay less tax or no tax.

[@Drenwickification]

It’s not 2% though, at £50k you’d pay £2250 on type 1 or £1674 on later ones which is between 3.4-4.5%

[@themasterofpuppet1]

What's also is never explained with student debt is that it doesn't work like other debt, it doesn't affect credit score, mortgages etc.

[@leahptp]

Not in the United States… here it’s a life sentence

[@thijshavinga6847]

It does where I live

[@themasterofpuppet1]

@@leahptp reason 500 to never live in the US

[@leahptp]

@@themasterofpuppet1 For all it’s faults… it’s the greatest.

[@themasterofpuppet1]

@@leahptp At what?

[@alfredstutter]

Ah yes but that would have meant that the rich kids would have to shoulder the weight equally compared to their poorer peers. A tax means everyone pays, a loan means the rich can pay up front and the poor pay interest over a lifetime.

[@gh975223]

tax on education should be illegal no matter its form!

[@Racing_Fox]

That’s wonderful and all, but who’s going to pay for it?

[@gh975223]

@Racing_Fox the government as it does in normal countries

[@John19349]

It's a crime to pay for education because education should be free.

[@RPAGN]

It's called a loan because it's a loan, not a gratitude.

[@Racing_Fox]

What are you trying to say

[@randomshotz13]

But they make it a loan so that rich people can pay a lump sum and avoid the 30 year graduate tax everyone else has to pay. If you made it a tax people would be up in arms about the fact a rich person can pay X thousand to avoid the tax altogether

[@tree1568]

I owe them over £90,000 and never earnt enough to pay any of it back 😂

[@jakedaniels7676]

The funny thing about student loans are just wonder how many Nicola Teslas there might have been who were just too poor for higher education and went to the coal mines. Schooling is to find the special few who will change the world. Once you put a monetary value to that you only get the fortunate special few who have parents with expendable income.

[@Racing_Fox]

Nobody is too poor for education in the U.K., everyone is eligible for a loan

[@Chlo175]

Student loans take £350 off me every month. Back in school we were told it would be like £20 a month! lol

[@Dekedence]

That just means you're earning a lot

[@smjstevens]

Yeah. If you put the onus on the uni to provide a degree, no one wouldve rioted. Thats literally the point, Rory.

[@timg1246]

Universities do not 'provide' degrees. Students have to earn them. Most of the people who took part in thise demonstrations could not even describe the system. The whole thing was a joke.

[@martyndaly1539]

I'm not particularly clued up on finance but I feel like I already got this and a lot of people around me, including my parents that didn't go to university thought the former. Same goes for being in a higher tax bracket. If someone told me I'd end up in that bracket I'd say "chance would be a fine thing" to that too

[@HWMHaut]

It's a tax on aspiration, but only for the lower classes

[@Nate-9797]

This is why i find it annoying when people are like oh I didn't go to uni but at least im not in debt.. like its not a problem its a tiny tax if you earn a lot like he says

[@ianprout2853]

The outcome would not be the same. Taxes are paid to government and a loan to a private entity.

[@Racing_Fox]

Who acts on behalf of the government Student loans are classified under government spending

[@timstapleman]

This man is a genius. He understands the politics of further education better than anyone else alive, past or present. His Nobel prize is long overdue.

[@SaajidhSamurai]

He’s just parroting Martin Lewis from money saving expert. In fact most of his takes are just borrowed thoughts of others which he collates together as his own

[@kashukengaming6334]

It is not a debt tbh Doesnt affect anything, you are not forced to pay it back and only start paying it back if you earn over a certain amount

[@benhorspool7750]

It’s not an extra 2% it’s an extra 9% which is quite a substantial difference, but otherwise fair point

[@deanschultz6259]

That system exists in Australia, called HECS (Higher Education Contribution Scheme)

[@sunshineslowking5025]

Or they could send us to uni for free.

[@iantustin1983]

Nothing is free. Free means someone else is paying for it!

[@stephenconnolly1830]

I made exactly this point, with somewhat greater detail admittedly, in the Times Higher Education (16th September 2024).

[@robertmclean3612]

They riot in London over most things

[@waveylense2144]

Oh really? Do people riot over most things nowadays in London?

[@IMNOTAMUSED1]

​@@waveylense2144 Yeah

[@FiniteGlory]

@@waveylense2144people just say shit and expect others to congratulate them.

[@campfireeverything]

This guy teaches Marketing at Hogwarts.

[@alixfusco9691]

I'm sorry but students are not coming out straight from uni and getting 50k jobs

[@Stickit2Dman]

Sorry but a graduate tax wouldn't work because then nobody would pursue higher education.

[@ralfdsouza-ko7dy]

That's mostly because people don't understand tax

[@madmintentertainment6268]

Is he referring to what went down in 08? Cause people werent angry about the loan theybwere angry that the prices tripled

[@thirdmeow2270]

Majority don't pay their loans back, and yet we're programmed to hate the jobless.

[@Racing_Fox]

What’s that supposed to mean?

[@thirdmeow2270]

@Racing_Fox that we're programmed to hate on the jobless when students are absolutely raking it on in student loans that they'll never pay back.

[@Racing_Fox]

@ yet they’re still contributing in NI and tax while the jobless are just leeching benefits.

[@thirdmeow2270]

@@Racing_Fox Students can take out close to £10,000 in student loans, per year, loans that they don't pay back. There really is no comparison as to who's the bigger sponger, regardless of NI or tax being payed.

[@thirdmeow2270]

@@Racing_Fox there's no comparison when you crunch the numbers.

[@AD-le7st]

Nah a graduate tax can go up. Im never paying this shit back 😆 10 years left til wrote off

[@MiddayEnglishman]

It’s about money now instead of in 5 years.

[@nathanadams8206]

Its very simple, you should have to go to a bank for a loan.

[@sidskofa]

Chance would be a fine thing

[@robinwhitebeam4386]

Only borrowing £ 7000? I think its double or treble that amount per year.

[@Racing_Fox]

£9760 a year at the moment but will be going up. You can do it for cheaper though

[@robinwhitebeam4386]

@@Racing_Fox does that include renting , food , transport and beer ?

[@Racing_Fox]

@@robinwhitebeam4386 that’s tuition. You also get a maintenance loan of up to £9k a year outside London which covers the most of the rest of Anything else can be covered by working part time. I know because I did it.

[@alanheah7221]

Well yes except a big difference A losn has to be psid even if you dont get a job. A graduate tax only needs to be paid if you grt a job

[@Racing_Fox]

You’re not from the UK are you. You don’t pay back your student loan if you earning anything less than £27,000 a year. It also gets wiped completely after 30 or 40 years. I’ve got 76k in student loan. I’m never paying it all back because it’s gonna get wiped before I get close

[@ghdshds1899]

This is stupid, because it’s not financially identical to a tax. I wouldn’t be able to lump sum pay off a tax for eternity, and a tax wouldn’t disappear earlier if you make enough money. It’s a payment plan with a write off date. It’s scummy to call it a tax because then you’re not giving people incentive to pay it off quicker and not accumulate interest.

[@morganhuthnance887]

Yes but they don't want the working class to get rich do they, education was made by the middle-class for the middle-class

[@JohnDoe-nt1sv]

Good point.

[@NikhilRasmalla]

Besides, a major chunk of student expenses in terms of tuition is subsidized by university fro home students because they charge an international student 3 to 4 times the fee of a home student for the same course. Soooooo, is it still immigrants fault? Or the case of immigrants being exploited?

[@James-tv4pl]

Although international students are counted in immigration figures they really shouldn't be cause they are temporarily living here. But yeah people who complain about international students are stupid given that they are the only thing keeping our entire university system from collapse

[@henrymendoza8295]

100% correct. However what this neglects to mention is that while the student loan system in the UK is *close* to a graduate tax in all but name, it's a graduate tax that the rich can very easily avoid, perfectly legally without any tax loopholes whatsoever. If Mummy and Daddy have the money to pay for your tuition fees upfront, and you either live at home or they buy you a house/flat or pay your rent/living costs, then you get to avoid that system altogether. You get to just go to uni, get your degree, and not have to go through the student loans company for either your tuition fees or your maintenance loans. Result? When you clear the same income threshold as someone else on your course who couldn't rely totally on the bank of Mum and Dad, they have to pay the extra money out of their payslip in student loans or a 'graduate tax', and you, if you come from that kind of rich family, pay less 'tax' overall. Because you've got no student loan debts to pay off.

[@RootyReddy]

well... yeah? I think I'm missing your point. What's the issue?

[@ThreeStrikes90]

​@@RootyReddy jealousy is the point. He's mad that some people can 'avoid' repaying their student loans back by paying for tuition up front.

[@henrymendoza8295]

​@@RootyReddyBy having parents who can pay the fees and accommodation upfront rather than through the loan system, a graduate who ends up earning over the threshold to usually start paying back a student loan is effectively spared a higher tax rate than one of their peers who earns the exact same as them but didn't have the bank of Mum and Dad to pay their tuition fees and accommodation. An actual graduate tax would be charged universally on all graduates, irrespective of parental income. The system that exists currently is only charged on either working-class graduates who better themselves sufficiently to be earning over that threshold or middle-class graduates whose parents couldn't afford to pay for their tuition fees and accommodation upfront. To an upper middle class or even upper class graduate, they are granted both the greater career opportunities that a university degree can give you but also don't pay any of the costs. If this graduate went to private school then given those astronomical fees then any parent who can afford that probably looks at the cost of a university degree and considers it a discount compared to what they were paying for their offspring's education before. It's not simple jealousy, the current system doesn't work for anyone but the very richest.

[@darrennew8211]

I like to think of student loan interest like taxing unrealized capital gains. You paid for an investment that hasn't made its money back, but we're going to charge you for what you might be able to make with that investment. It's not an exact equivalence, but it might make some people understand why taxing unrealized capital gains is a problematic idea.

[@lewis72]

You only pay it back when you _do_ realize the financial gain, so your analogy seems to be false.

[@bryanhayadi718]

A capital gains tax force you to realize some of the the unrealized gain. You are only taxed if you are able to realize a portion in that moment. But ya there’s issues like treatment of unrealized loss.

[@darrennew8211]

@@bryanhayadi718 Right. So how do you realize a portion of the capital gains on the house you live in? You own a company and now you're forced to sell off some of the control of the company just to pay the government?

[@darrennew8211]

@@lewis72 It depends on the kind of interest you're accumulating. Certainly some loans at least start needing to be paid back at a fixed time after graduation.

[@lewis72]

@@darrennew8211 UK university loans don't operate like this.

[@iandodds3218]

The government still haven't learned look at the farmers/landowners IHT

[@benjporter1511]

Why do other European countries pay 0 graduate tax?

[@Boominator-d8s]

Where’s the part when we factor in that the degree has no value and those young people have wasted their time and money?

[@Racing_Fox]

We don’t because that’s simple not true.

[@Boominator-d8s]

@ Oh yes it so very much is, that is EXACTLY my experience. Hopefully it’s different in the UK, but in the U.S. a BA in a liberal arts discipline from who-gives-a-crap-state-university is not worth the paper it is printed upon.

[@Racing_Fox]

@ perhaps not. But I can promise you my engineering masters is worth its weight in gold

[@Boominator-d8s]

@ Of that I have no doubt. There is a very big difference in the value of a degree in a field like engineering versus a BA, which is what about 80% of US graduates attain.

[@raymondwong2159]

yeah but they would just riot about the tax ..

[@alanheah7221]

Imagine whst would happen if someone scrapped thr NHS. Let's judt say we would be calling Luigi

[@Aerotides]

If youre trying to sell someone pee pee and nobody wants it - rebrand it as poo pop and your youtube reel will get tons of hits

[@hmzmss]

Whats this blokes name please?

[@chrisholbrook141]

Oaf. Graduate tax = many fewer graduates.

[@James-tv4pl]

Well the UK student loan system is basically a graduate tax, that's the guy in the video's whole point. The system already acts like a graduate tax so treating it as such rather than making intimidating student loans would encourage more students to go to university

[@ganemastergane3944]

Studen loans are preditory loans on young minds manipulated

[@Racing_Fox]

They’re really not lol

[@G-man_the-cyber-guy]

Just saying that education should not cost that much. Sorry. In Hungary BsC is free. MsC is around 1000 per semester.

[@F.O.O]

Someone’s paying for it though. I don’t think it’s fair to make the rest of the population pay for others university. I am a graduate in the uk btw and I think our system is really good

[@James-tv4pl]

​@@F.O.O surely if you are in a country with a progressive taxation system and you are a graduate earning higher than the average because of your degree, the extra taxes you pay, will pay for your university education?

[@F.O.O]

@James-tv4pl A lot of people choose lower earnings potential degrees or even degrees with no job opportunities other than research positions. These people don’t end up getting an income benefit from university so would be a burden on the average tax payer in a system like that

[@James-tv4pl]

@@F.O.O right, but the majority of people who go to university get an income benefit. 'Attending HE is associated with 19% higher earnings for men relative to men of similar characteristics. For women, this figure is 24% higher relative to women of similar characteristics' - Gov.uk

[@Charles-js3ri]

This is just laughable. Countries that aren't falling apart are making higher education dirt cheap or nominally free. Realistically, if we need people to fill positions we should make it completely free so long as they agree to be transfered wherever and work x amount of years. Doctors come to mind. In exchange for free education, they need to put in 8 to 10 years working as a doctor in regions of the country where there is a shortage.

[@kidsonicofficial]

😂 2%? I wish mate. I really cannot stand this ponce. It's an extra 9%, and then you still have to pay it if you're only making £22,000. So you're paying 29% tax instead of 20%.

[@Racing_Fox]

That’s not how taxes work at all

[@Katieoutof10]

Yeah, but in a weird way, all the anxiety that I have towards my student loan, cancels out all the anxiety that I have towards literally any other thing that happens in my life… Earthquake? Doesn’t fucking matter at least I won’t have to pay my student loans. Apocalypse? Doesn’t fucking matter… Lol jokes on them, I don’t have to pay my student loan…

[@pananthony2148]

Nope that assumes you get a job that pays well after college

[@robertgould1345]

That's how a student loan works in UK. You don't have to pay it back if you don't have a high enough paying job.

[@F.O.O]

You only start paying if you earn over a certain amount

[@vrex899]

"Gravitas."

[@Azkaellon9001]

but... rich people have less to pay back, many can even skip it.. it's just a tax on poor people attempting to make it to the middle class.

[@LibraFever985]

Question what happens if you don’t make $50,000 a year

[@James-tv4pl]

You pay 9% of everything you earn over £25,000

[@theriddlerUSA]

You are a marketing genius!! 💰 💰

[@某人-d1p]

Couldn't because they may not graduate